Intersting, the Captain doesn't park the ship in port

[huffjoann]

Hubby & I found this very interesting when we commented on how great a job the captain/crew did parking/pulling the boat into Nassau and the CM said that the captain doesn't even do it. A port "pilot" comes onboard about 2 miles out and gets the ship into port and docked. Same thing on the way out,, very intersting. I am guessing they do it for CC since it is Disney owned.

I am envisioning a whole James Bond type move from the pilot boat to the ship, wish we saw that but then I might have been disapointed he didnt' repel in, LOL

 

[Turbanator]

Hubby & I found this very interesting when we commented on how great a job the captain/crew did parking/pulling the boat into Nassau and the CM said that the captain doesn't even do it. A port "pilot" comes onboard about 2 miles out and gets the ship into port and docked. Same thing on the way out,, very intersting. I am guessing they do it for CC since it is Disney owned.

I am envisioning a whole James Bond type move from the pilot boat to the ship, wish we saw that but then I might have been disapointed he didnt' repel in, LOL

Shhh keep those secrets to yourself it'll spoil the fun

Seriously though, i never knew that i always thought the captn steered the ship in and out.

 

[ndabunka]

The logic is that the local pilot's know the waters much better and can adjust for tides.

 

[truck1]

The Capt controls the ship from the time it leaves the pier until she's tied up again. The harbor pilot advises the Capt on currents sandbars etc. They'll never touch the controls since its not only a liability issue but with so many ships no 2 handle the same. The Capt on the ship and a few other bridge officers know that ship inside and out on how she handles, any issue that the ship may have like a bad thruster motor how much power to push when etc.

 

[caribbeandreaming]

We tried to watch the harbor pilot board, but didn't have any luck. However, we did see the boat with the pilot pull up to the Fantasy and then pull away - it happens extremely fast! I don't think there is a harbor pilot for CC. Here are a couple of pics...

St. Maarten (pic taken from Deck 4)

St. Thomas (pic taken from our verandah on Deck 7 Aft)

 

[PrincessShmoo]

My DM's first job when I was a kid was working on the dock where the ships were unloading (military port). One day she asked "Did they park the boat yet?" Her boss (a Navy Captain) said (in a very controlled voice), "In the first place, it's a ship, not a boat. And you do not park them, you "dock" them, or you "berth" them."

My DM (realizing that a line had been drawn) replied, "Well, I refuse to berth them, it sounds positively indecent!". From then on, in her office, it was always asked "did they park the boat yet?"

 

[lbgraves]

The Capt controls the ship from the time it leaves the pier until she's tied up again. The harbor pilot advises the Capt on currents sandbars etc. They'll never touch the controls since its not only a liability issue but with so many ships no 2 handle the same. The Capt on the ship and a few other bridge officers know that ship inside and out on how she handles, any issue that the ship may have like a bad thruster motor how much power to push when etc.

This has been my understanding as well. We were told that the pilot has to be onboard, but the Captain or one of his officers actually has control of the vessel at all times. OP, it sounds like the CM you spoke with was a bit confused as to what actually happens on the bridge.

 

[bobyetman]

The only time that I know of where the captain gives up control of the ship is going through the Panama Canal. In one of the talks we had during our recent EBPC, the speaker says its a legal requirement for passage through the canal, the canal pilot assumes all responsibility, and the canal's insurance covers any damage.

 

[mwins78]

Love reading interesting facts like this

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Hubby & I found this very interesting when we commented on how great a job the captain/crew did parking/pulling the boat into Nassau and the CM said that the captain doesn't even do it. A port "pilot" comes onboard about 2 miles out and gets the ship into port and docked. Same thing on the way out,, very intersting. I am guessing they do it for CC since it is Disney owned.

I am envisioning a whole James Bond type move from the pilot boat to the ship, wish we saw that but then I might have been disapointed he didnt' repel in, LOL

The CM was very wrong. The pilots, by law, board the vessel before the vessel enters restricted waters/ channels. The Master is always (except in the Panama Cannel and the great lakes cannels and lock system.
) in command and responsible for his vessel's safe navigation. The pilots assist and offers aid as he has a complete and detailed knowledge of the waters the vessel is passing though.

While docking on most vessels, the pilot or a additional docking Master will dock the vessel. On cruise vessels and some other large vessels due to the size and special handling abilities (and liabilities) the Master (and sometimes a chief officer in training) dock the vessel.

However to repeat the Master has the right to take over the navigation of his vessel at anytime.


Pilots boarding vessel do indeed sometimes do moves that would make a circus crowd go WOOO and HAAA, especially in rough water. It can be very dangerous. I have great respect for the Pilots, especially those boarding at the Columbia River bar..........these guys are amazing.

AKK

Just for the record...............vessels do not park......they *dock* or *berth*

 

[insureman]

The only time that I know of where the captain gives up control of the ship is going through the Panama Canal. In one of the talks we had during our recent EBPC, the speaker says its a legal requirement for passage through the canal, the canal pilot assumes all responsibility, and the canal's insurance covers any damage.

As Tonka's Skipper posted, the captain does not give up control of the ship, the pilot advises the captain or OOD on what is the best course. I was stationed on the bridge of US Navy ship during "sea and anchor" detail and I can assure you the pilot never touched the helm and that included navigating through Panama Canal although the Canal authority had more legal control than port pilots.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Seems I should have read the thread first......you folks pretty well covered it all.

I would add that the Master, nor the Pilot, would actually take the helm. There is always a helmsman that does the actual steering at the Master's or Pilots orders.

The exception is with those famous joy sticks on the bridge wings controls, where the Master controls the docking maneuverers

The Master and Pilot needs to be able to move around the bridge and onto the bridge wings to get the best view of the vessels actual position and motion.


AKK

 

[huffjoann]

park/dock/berth you all know what I mean!
perhaps the pilot just advises or actual handles the controls, not sure. I was just amazed that someone comes on board to even do that part. But yes ITA, the captain knows his vessel and the pilot knows his port. I doubt they are fighting each other on it.

 

[Capt_BJ]

The interplay between the pilot and the master is complex and seldom the same in two different places. My experience is from the Captain’s chair over 4 years; a few points I’d offer:

As mentioned, other than in special areas like the canal zones the pilot is “an advisor” to the master by law and the law requires a pilot on board when in internal waters such as a port/harbor. And as such the master must be very aware of the position he is in if he defies the pilot even tho the master DOES retain the responsibility.

In the US pilots are regulated by the States but there is overarching US regulation and licensing. Note that when moving from open seas to a pier and ship may actually end up working with several pilots as State jurisdiction chages. In the case of San Fran for example one pilot will bring the ship from sea into the Bay, another may be required to enter a particular area of the port and yet another ‘docking pilot’ takes over for the actual docking evolution . . . very complex. And the procedures seen in the US may not be exactly what a ship encounters in ‘other than US’ ports! On an Alaska cruise in the inland passage, sometimes there are US pilots and other times Canada .. depends on where you are.

I have had pilots come on board and immediately start issuing commands directly to the helm and engines, and at the other extreme I’ve had pilots come on board ask for their fee and a cup of coffee and other than pointing to a spot and saying ‘park there’ are not heard from again, and everything ‘tween the two.

As Captain I met the pilot immediate on their arrival to the bridge and we’d begin a little dance establishing just where the boundary was going to be. Some captains just say ‘the ship is yours pilot’.

The Carib’ cruise ships tend to visit the same ports weekly or even more frequently and they work with the same pilots regularly. As both sides of the equation gain trust it is not uncommon to see more of a partnership develop which is of course the entire intent. The pilot may stand aside and just watch the Captain drive, or watch the Captain teach a subordinate how to drive, or have the pilot drive because – hey it’s fun! But thing don’t always work so well ... Remember when that oil tanker hit the Bay Bridge in San Fran in 07"? This is from the exec’ summary of the NTSB report

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the allision of the Cosco Busan with the San Francisco–Oakland Bay Bridge was the failure to safely navigate the vessel in restricted visibility as a result of (1) the pilot’s degraded cognitive performance from his use of impairing prescription medications, (2) the absence of a comprehensive pre-departure master/pilot exchange and a lack of effective communication between the pilot and the master during the accident voyage, and (3) the master’s ineffective oversight of the pilot’s performance and the vessel’s progress.
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/summary/MAR0901.htm

 

[LovesToRun]

My dad was a harbor pilot in Alaska for 30 years (he retired a few years ago), and loved his job. It is very challenging (especially in Alaska).

It is true that it is a federal law that a pilot is on board as the ship comes into port and leaves port, and there is a "pilot station" about 2 miles outside of port where the pilot boards (sometimes they just get on the ship via a small door on the side of the ship, like on cruise ship, sometimes they climb up a ladder up the side of the ship (this is the case for most non-passenger vessels, and the super tankers, which are huge, are quite a climb, and then add in the bad rough weather... it takes skill!).

Yes, all Capt_BJ wrote is right on! My dad has had situations where he takes control from the moment he gets to the bridge, because that is what the captain wants, and other situations where the captain wants to do it all, and my dad doesn't do much. And, my dad got to know many captains over time, so before he even boarded a ship, often he would already know who the captain was, and this helped him know what to expect once getting on the bridge. But, that is a good way to describe it that there is "a little dance" to set boundaries... very true.

In Alaska, the pilot often will stay on board for 3 days straight as there are so many narrow channels, tough currents, extreme tides, etc. (in this case, there are two pilots on board, and they relieve each other so the other can sleep... this way, there is a pilot on the bridge the entire time). And, there were times where my dad and the captain (a.k.a, "the old man" ... slang term for captain) would disagree on the approach my dad would be advising, and there wouldn't be much time to work out the disagreement, and there have been times my dad has just overridden the captain because my dad was the expert in the water ways/ports, and he knew if they did things the way the captain was wanting, it could mean bad news. But, that doesn't happen often... most of the time, they work together, and listen to each other's advice... But, it's true, every job is so different, depending on the ship, the captain, the weather, the port... so many factors.

And, yes, it's usually the 1st mate who actually steers the ship... the captain nor pilot does that... except, yes, with the remote control controls, the captain or pilot will run those, but on the bridge itself, the captain or pilot just gives orders to the 1st mate.

I got to go with my dad on many of his jobs (pre-9/11), and it was always fun to see all the action unfold on the bridge. I loved my dad's job... it was so unique and interesting!

My dad always brought home lots of great stories!

My favorite "cruise ship" storie from my dad is it was pretty rough seas when the pilot boat came along side the ship to let my dad (plus another pilot who was boarding with him). When the pilot boat comes along side to let the pilot(s) off onto the ship, if there are rough seas, they try to time it just right with the waves where the pilot jumps from the boat to the ship right when the pilot boat is even with the door to the ship, before the pilot boat drops down from the wave making it uneven.

Well, in Alaska, the pilots are required to wear suits and ties on the bridge (at least the SouthWest pilots were required to... not sure about SouthEast pilots), and my dad and the other pilot went to jump on the ship when it seemed to be timed right with the waves, and right at that moment, a big wave splashed on both of them drenching them completely from the waist down! Well, they had to make their way up to the bridge (drenched from the waist down, dressed in suits, so passengers would have though they were a passenger). They just took the stairs all the way up (I forget which cruise line it was), and my dad said they got some pretty strange looks... LOL!! Luckily, they had changes of clothes with them (since it was a multiple day job), so they were able to put dry clothes on. But, I'll never forget that story. I can only imagine if you were a passenger seeing two men dressed in suits and ties walking up the stairs totally drenched from the waist down how perplexing that would be! LOL!!

 

[Subi WRX]

Does anyone else read Capt. Albert's blog?

http://www.hollandamericablog.com/albert/

He is a Capt on HAL, and writes a great blog on the daily life of a ship's captain. He addresses the role of the pilots in various ports. I remember a time or two of a pilot being later than scheduled and the consequences of the ship getting into port later than planned, etc.

Interesting reads. He is not currently on the ship so there have been no updates lately, but you can read past entries.

 

[Capt_BJ]

and there have been times my dad has just overridden the captain

Well you may have seen that but, on my ships my crew had no doubts who was in Command and the pilot COULD not over ride the Captain . . . this was discussed in every 'entering port briefing' for the bridge crew - held before entering every port with the bridge team and b4 the pilot came aboard.

My simple statement: "The Captain has the CONN" ended any confusion. Yes, if I did something contrary to pilot's recommendations I'd better be prepared to pay the price if things went wrong but I'll refer BACK to the incident I quoted. That Master WENT TO JAIL for failure to ignore the pilot's advice ... and the pilot paid for giving the bad advice.

The Captain is responsible and has the DUTY to ensure safe navigation - pilot not withstanding - except in a few limited circumstances.

Trivia - we've mention Canal Zones as exceptions where pilots are more than advisors. Another exception is (usually) when a ship enters a dry dock. A ship is normally brought into dry dock "dead ship" meaning everything is off and tugs control the event. Once the ship crosses the 'sill' of the dry dock (or floating dock) ... meaning once the ship penetrates the dry dock however slightly . . . . the yard pilot has the responsibility, not the ship's Master. The MASTER can STOP the evolution until the sill is crossed - after that it is out of the Master's hands as far as responsibility. The exact moment of this transfer is announced to the bridge team and logged for legal documentation.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

I think someone mentioned that the great lakes between Canada and the US require pilots. I think I heard somewhere that it only applies to foreign flagged, meaning ships that are flagged for any country other than Canada or the US. That was one of the difficulties that lead to the shutdown of the fast ferry between Toronto and Rochester, since the owners of the ferry company had decided to try and save money on paying either US or Canadian taxes and wages by registering it in the bahamas even though it only sailed in lake Ontario. So because it was foreign flag despite being owned by a company in Rochester and in it's second year being run by a company from Canada they had to have a pilot on board for all trips.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

and there have been times my dad has just overridden the captain

Well you may have seen that but, on my ships my crew had no doubts who was in Command and the pilot COULD not over ride the Captain . . . this was discussed in every 'entering port briefing' for the bridge crew - held before entering every port with the bridge team and b4 the pilot came aboard.

My simple statement: "The Captain has the CONN" ended any confusion. Yes, if I did something contrary to pilot's recommendations I'd better be prepared to pay the price if things went wrong but I'll refer BACK to the incident I quoted. That Master WENT TO JAIL for failure to ignore the pilot's advice ... and the pilot paid for giving the bad advice.

The Captain is responsible and has the DUTY to ensure safe navigation - pilot not withstanding - except in a few limited circumstances.
Trivia - we've mention Canal Zones as exceptions where pilots are more than advisors. Another exception is (usually) when a ship enters a dry dock. A ship is normally brought into dry dock "dead ship" meaning everything is off and tugs control the event. Once the ship crosses the 'sill' of the dry dock (or floating dock) ... meaning once the ship penetrates the dry dock however slightly . . . . the yard pilot has the responsibility, not the ship's Master. The MASTER can STOP the evolution until the sill is crossed - after that it is out of the Master's hands as far as responsibility. The exact moment of this transfer is announced to the bridge team and logged for legal documentation.

Totally correct !


AKK