Orlando Sentinel story about "inappropriate fondling" on the Dream

[Tonka's Skipper]

Ok... I told myself I wasn't going to comment on this thread... but this statement just infuriates me. It's untrue and unfair to the thousands of cast members who put the guests safety ahead of their own. I've been thrown up on, held collapsed, heat exhausted guests in my arms, done CPR, used AED's, been a mediator between the paramedics and a party that spoke another language. I've broken up fights, intervened in domestic disputes, and on one occasion put myself between a wife and her abusive husband.

One bad apple should not discredit the thousands of CM's who believe that the guests safety is their number one priority. Disney puts safety ahead of EVERYTHING. Even the courtesy of the CM's is secondary to the guest's safety. CM's are the reason you do feel safe and comfortable in a Disney environment.

The reason that guests are not pronounced dead in Disney Parks is because there are no doctors on scene to make such a pronouncement, the paramedics treat the patient as if they are alive and do everything in their power to keep it that way.

Totally agree!


In fact the statement is wrong, because the lady at DL who was hit by the cleat that pulled out of the dock, when the Mark Twain was docking was declared dead on the dock.


AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Reporter Tony Pipitone’s favorite quote:

"Believe none of what you hear, half of what you see, and everything you report."

The shame is few if any of the media reporters today believe or follow that quote!


AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

From the DCL website:

"As required by the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act of 2010, the following information is provided as part our commitment to your safety and security."

"Disney Cruise Line has zero tolerance for crime on board its vessels. On international voyages that embark or disembark in the United States, Disney Cruise Line is required by federal law to report on board felonies and missing U.S. nationals to federal agencies. For a missing U.S. national and all serious felonies (homicide, suspicious death, kidnapping, assault with serious bodily injury, sexual assaults as defined by federal laws, firing or tampering with the vessel, or theft of money or property in excess of $10,000) the incident must be reported to the F.B.I. by telephone as soon as possible, to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security electronically, and to the U.S. Coast Guard in writing. These requirements apply to incidents that occur on board in U.S. territorial waters, or on the high seas or in foreign waters if the assailant or victim is a U.S. national."

This info is then followed with phone numbers for the FBI, Coast Guard, and numerous local law enforcement departments, including Port Canaveral.

I wonder if these reports were filed. I'm guessing not since DCL doesn't show up in Q3 2012 reporting on the Coast Guard website.

According to the news the vessel reported the attack the next day, so I am sure at that point, everyone was advised as by law.

The USCG is known not post all their notices, events and investigations, etc on the web sites. I cannot speak to the FBI, but as another federal agency, its most likely the same.


AKK

 

[Rogillio]

Ok... I told myself I wasn't going to comment on this thread... but this statement just infuriates me. It's untrue and unfair to the thousands of cast members who put the guests safety ahead of their own. I've been thrown up on, held collapsed, heat exhausted guests in my arms, done CPR, used AED's, been a mediator between the paramedics and a party that spoke another language. I've broken up fights, intervened in domestic disputes, and on one occasion put myself between a wife and her abusive husband.

One bad apple should not discredit the thousands of CM's who believe that the guests safety is their number one priority. Disney puts safety ahead of EVERYTHING. Even the courtesy of the CM's is secondary to the guest's safety. CM's are the reason you do feel safe and comfortable in a Disney environment.

The reason that guests are not pronounced dead in Disney Parks is because there are no doctors on scene to make such a pronouncement, the paramedics treat the patient as if they are alive and do everything in their power to keep it that way.

Great post!

 

[abayaflowers]

Ok... I told myself I wasn't going to comment on this thread... but this statement just infuriates me. It's untrue and unfair to the thousands of cast members who put the guests safety ahead of their own. I've been thrown up on, held collapsed, heat exhausted guests in my arms, done CPR, used AED's, been a mediator between the paramedics and a party that spoke another language. I've broken up fights, intervened in domestic disputes, and on one occasion put myself between a wife and her abusive husband.

One bad apple should not discredit the thousands of CM's who believe that the guests safety is their number one priority. Disney puts safety ahead of EVERYTHING. Even the courtesy of the CM's is secondary to the guest's safety. CM's are the reason you do feel safe and comfortable in a Disney environment.

The reason that guests are not pronounced dead in Disney Parks is because there are no doctors on scene to make such a pronouncement, the paramedics treat the patient as if they are alive and do everything in their power to keep it that way.

Agreed. If I did not feel safe on DCL, I wouldn't go. I would make precautionary measures for my child to ensure her safety.

I have always experienced top notched service and attention from CMs especially in minor accidents.

For instance, my DH accidentally dropped a glass in our Stateroom and it broke.

He cut his foot, and we needed.some help. 2 CMs maybe one security person came to our cabin. They were over the top to make sure my husband was ok.

One more thing and I know many disagree, but if something is not reported right away, someone cannot help.

As an protective mom, I tell my children to always tell someone if anything happens that makes them feel uncomfortable, terrible, sad, or bullied. So that I can help fix the problem.

With laws regarding any cruise line, I believe laws can be changed and it can more effective to ensure safety for all in the future.

If I was on the same cruise as the little girl/victim, I would be starting a petition on change.org and addressing to the head of International Cruise organization and also the maritime legal teams.

Just an idea!

 

[Wadekind]

Quote:


This guys name is on a list by now. A list all the cruise lines and the hiring companies have. Unless he can totally change his name, looks and background, it is highly unlikely he will ever get a job on a cruise ship again.

AKK

Serious question. Do you know if the cruise lines all have/share photo or fingerprints of bad employees?
I ask because some friends of mine are from India and they think it would not be that hard to change your identity there.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Serious question. Do you know if the cruise lines all have/share photo or fingerprints of bad employees?
I ask because some friends of mine are from India and they think it would not be that hard to change your identity there.

Most of the CMs for like hotel service and maintenance, seamen and engine gang, etc., are hiring directly by *hiring Agencies*. The hiring agencies provide the list, experience, ratings, and back ground of the people. With Disney and some of the other major lines, I also know they go direct to various countries and interview people, but the hiring is still done though the hiring companies. Each person is hired with a contract for so many months, the pay and benefits listed as well.

Now all that said, should I would be very surprised if the cruise lines did not photograph and finger print all people hired as part of background checks.

I would think in a small industry like cruise ships, it would be hard for this guy to sneak back in, not impossible, but hard. No line would want to hire this guy and then have something happen on their ships and it come out that he had a previous child abuse charge/accusation.

However as I mentioned before, with the rapes and attacks on women in India in the news lately, it seems the Indian government doesn't take these kind of attacks seriously.

So I would say it would be hard, but not impossible, so your friends may indeed have a point!

AKK

 

[Otter49]

With laws regarding any cruise line, I believe laws can be changed and it can more effective to ensure safety for all in the future.

If I was on the same cruise as the little girl/victim, I would be starting a petition on change.org and addressing to the head of International Cruise organization and also the maritime legal teams.

Just an idea!

You may very well be right, maybe the laws can be strengthened.

But here is the paraphrase of the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act of 2010. This verbage comes straight from the DCL website (as required by the law itself).

"...all serious felonies (homicide, suspicious death, kidnapping, assault with serious bodily injury, sexual assaults as defined by federal laws, firing or tampering with the vessel, or theft of money or property in excess of $10,000) the incident must be reported to the F.B.I. by telephone as soon as possible, to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security electronically, and to the U.S. Coast Guard in writing."

There isn't anything ambiguous about what I've bolded here. And no one is going to be able to argue me into believing that a day later is "as soon as possible". We can strengthen laws, but a law is only as good as the people charged with enforcing it.

Like an earlier poster, I believe some people pretty high up the food chain, maybe even the Captain knew about this early on.

I've never been in the cruise industry, but I was in the hotel business for many years - twice working at hotels with well over a 1000 rooms. I can tell you with absolute certainty, that if a sexual assault on a child took place at one of those facilities, that within minutes the following people would know about it - Security Manager, Resident Manager, General Manager, and the Asst. General Manager. And many of them would be on scene.

And without a doubt, a call to law enforcement would have been made within 15 or 20 minutes.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

You may very well be right, maybe the laws can be strengthened.

But here is the paraphrase of the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act of 2010. This verbage comes straight from the DCL website (as required by the law itself).

"...all serious felonies (homicide, suspicious death, kidnapping, assault with serious bodily injury, sexual assaults as defined by federal laws, firing or tampering with the vessel, or theft of money or property in excess of $10,000) the incident must be reported to the F.B.I. by telephone as soon as possible, to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security electronically, and to the U.S. Coast Guard in writing."

There isn't anything ambiguous about what I've bolded here. And no one is going to be able to argue me into believing that a day later is "as soon as possible". We can strengthen laws, but a law is only as good as the people charged with enforcing it.

Like an earlier poster, I believe some people pretty high up the food chain, maybe even the Captain knew about this early on.

I've never been in the cruise industry, but I was in the hotel business for many years - twice working at hotels with well over a 1000 rooms. I can tell you with absolute certainty, that if a sexual assault on a child took place at one of those facilities, that within minutes the following people would know about it - Security Manager, Resident Manager, General Manager, and the Asst. General Manager. And many of them would be on scene.

And without a doubt, a call to law enforcement would have been made within 15 or 20 minutes.

Ok.......now I have been very vocal about my feelings that the vessel should not have sailed before giving whatever authorities had a chance to investigate!

I feel that way because the vessel own time line shows there was time to find out the basic details and still call.

Now that said, the law quoted is correct, but as soon as possible doesn't mean someone walks up to the guest services and says I have been assaulted and the CMs drops everything and immediately picks up the phone.

The vessel security has to do a preliminary investigation as in find out what is being alleged, look at video, check the scene and talk to all involved parties. This does take some time and more then 15 or 20 minutes.


AKK

 

[theparsons]

I find it odd that it is from August and just coming out to be reported. Plus if I had video of my 11 yo being molested by a DCL cast member, I would have hired a lawyer before I got back to the states and had him arrested as soon as we got back to PC. (If my DH didn't take him out first )

From my dealings with DCL and my teen, DCL doesn't easily take responsibility for their staff's inappropriate behavior. I'm sure there is more to this story and it will come out shortly.

If it was MY daughter I'd have to hire a lawyer to defend ME for the murder of the CM.

 

[TLSnell1981]

The shame is few if any of the media reporters today believe or follow that quote!


AKK

"Suppose you picked up this morning's newspaper and your life was a front page headline... And everything they said was accurate... But none of it was true?"

"Absence of Malice"

 

[carpenta]

"Suppose you picked up this morning's newspaper and your life was a front page headline... And everything they said was accurate... But none of it was true?"

"Absence of Malice"

Wow!!! That would be GREAT. My life is SOOOO boring I would love to have a life reported like a rock star.....hopefully Keith Richards.......Liberace not so much.....

 

[Tozzie]

The one line that everyone seems to be skipping over is the line I bolded, neither the victim nor the assailant were US Nationals, hence DCL wasn't required to report the crime. Don't blame them for following the letter of the law blame the people who wrote it.



Disney Cruise Line has zero tolerance for crime on board its vessels. On international voyages that embark or disembark in the United States, Disney Cruise Line is required by federal law to report on board felonies and missing U.S. nationals to federal agencies. For a missing U.S. national and all serious felonies (homicide, suspicious death, kidnapping, assault with serious bodily injury, sexual assaults as defined by federal laws, firing or tampering with the vessel, or theft of money or property in excess of $10,000) the incident must be reported to the F.B.I. by telephone as soon as possible, to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security electronically, and to the U.S. Coast Guard in writing. These requirements apply to incidents that occur on board in U.S. territorial waters, or on the high seas or in foreign waters if the assailant or victim is a U.S. national."

 

[rhorsley]

The one line that everyone seems to be skipping over is the line I bolded, neither the victim nor the assailant were US Nationals, hence DCL wasn't required to report the crime. Don't blame them for following the letter of the law blame the people who wrote it.



Disney Cruise Line has zero tolerance for crime on board its vessels. On international voyages that embark or disembark in the United States, Disney Cruise Line is required by federal law to report on board felonies and missing U.S. nationals to federal agencies. For a missing U.S. national and all serious felonies (homicide, suspicious death, kidnapping, assault with serious bodily injury, sexual assaults as defined by federal laws, firing or tampering with the vessel, or theft of money or property in excess of $10,000) the incident must be reported to the F.B.I. by telephone as soon as possible, to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security electronically, and to the U.S. Coast Guard in writing. These requirements apply to incidents that occur on board in U.S. territorial waters, or on the high seas or in foreign waters if the assailant or victim is a U.S. national."

I think punctuation & sentence structure is tripping you up here: and to the U.S. Coast Guard in writing. These requirements apply to incidents that occur on board in U.S. territorial waters, or on the high seas or in foreign waters if the assailant or victim is a U.S. national."

The 1st independent clause in purple indicates law applied to all passengers/crew in US waters. The second clause indicates the circumstances if the ship is on the "high seas or in foreign waters."

If it were 1 thought to include all, it would be written as "and to the U.S. Coast Guard in writing. These requirements apply to incidents that occur on board in U.S. territorial waters, on the high seas, or in foreign waters if the assailant or victim is a U.S. national." Also it would be unnecessary to list them out, as US territorial waters, high seas & foreign waters are all the possible places the ship could be.

Since the ship was in US waters, it makes sense. Whether you are a citizen or not, the FBI, etc... Wants to know about crimes committed in the US. All the institutions mentioned have no jurisdiction in the later locations noted: the high seas or foreign waters. So, unless a US citizen is involved the US coast guard, FBI etc would have no interest.

 

[pyramid2000]

Everyone has their opinions and their own views on how things happened and how they should or shouldn't have been handled.

I never had the notion that DCL was better than most other lines when it came to service, food,etc. We paid more for DCL because we love the Disney atmosphere; the hidden Mickey's, the music as you walked down the halls, the characters roaming about... and also because I felt Disney, as a corporation, had my family's back. I believed they cared more for their customers than most other places. Naive, I know, but it was what I believed.

After this, and other recent decisions made by the higher ups on DCL, I no longer believe this. Do I believe it would have been a different situation if it had been my child or any other US child when and where it occurred? I do. But now I question how it would be handled if it were my child and we were docked at foreign port. What if we were sailing in Europe or docked in Cozumel? Would they help me in my quest for justice or would they be looking for what was best for themselves first? My fantasy has been shattered and I cruised DCL for the fantasy.

 

[maria-fan-22]

Would they help me in my quest for justice or would they be looking for what was best for themselves first? My fantasy has been shattered and I cruised DCL for the fantasy.

What I find interesting is the use of the word 'justice.' What is justice? Is there any real sense of justice sending a man to jail for 25 years? what if he felt no remorse and got out and did the same thing again and went to jail for another 25 years. Is that 'justice'? I find that in the United States of America, so many people get caught up with sending someone to jail or suing someone… for what? does any of that make you feel better? Is 'justice' actually served? I am definitely not saying I would just let this guy go, but 'justice' is rarely served in the USA system… in this system, someone gets money because of 'damages'… well these damages are not fixed with money, and no amount of money or legal battles will ever change that… so the next time anyone thinks that they are searching for 'justice' by hoping someone will be arrested, just think about what crime they committed and if 'justice' is actually being served...

 

[bumbershoot]

In fact the statement is wrong, because the lady at DL who was hit by the cleat that pulled out of the dock, when the Mark Twain was docking was declared dead on the dock.


AKK

I've never heard of a woman being killed on the MT.

I've heard of a man who was declared dead two days after being hit by a cleat on the SS Columbia at Disneyland, though.


Oh wait, another article said that "The man was removed from life support about 11 hours after the accident."

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

"Suppose you picked up this morning's newspaper and your life was a front page headline... And everything they said was accurate... But none of it was true?"

"Absence of Malice"

You just proved my point about the media and alleged *journalists* today. IF your write a article, it should be accurate and true. I am sure there are some real and honest reporters today but with most there is little honor or interest in getting the real and correct information. When the fact don't do it they make it up.

Sorry but that is the truth today.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I've never heard of a woman being killed on the MT.

I've heard of a man who was declared dead two days after being hit by a cleat on the SS Columbia at Disneyland, though.


Oh wait, another article said that "The man was removed from life support about 11 hours after the accident."

It was not on MT she was waiting to board the next trip, as the MT was coming into the dock.

There was a big debate about if the MT came in to fast and hard or if the dock was rotted and the cleat just puller loose. It happened about 8 or 10 years ago.

Google it I am sure its still online somewhere.

AKK

 

[Rogillio]

You just proved my point about the media and alleged *journalists* today. IF your write a article, it should be accurate and true. I am sure there are some real and honest reporters today but with most there is little honor or interest in getting the real and correct information. When the fact don't do it they make it up.

Sorry but that is the truth today.

AKK

Which is why it bothers me that no other news people reported on this. The story was never vetted or validated by other news sources. Not saying the guy that reported it works for The National Enquirer but the fact that no other reporters did their own investigation casts doubt on what was reported.

The story implies a cover up which is juicy news and a bigger story than all alleged inappropriate touching. Just call me the skeptic.

BTW, was the original internal complaint published? Supposedly, that is where the times came from. So post the report so we can see if it looks legit and not doctored. I'd also like to see exactly what the report says and not have to trust a journalists interpretation of it.