Orlando Sentinel story about "inappropriate fondling" on the Dream

[Otter49]

From the DCL website:

"As required by the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act of 2010, the following information is provided as part our commitment to your safety and security."

"Disney Cruise Line has zero tolerance for crime on board its vessels. On international voyages that embark or disembark in the United States, Disney Cruise Line is required by federal law to report on board felonies and missing U.S. nationals to federal agencies. For a missing U.S. national and all serious felonies (homicide, suspicious death, kidnapping, assault with serious bodily injury, sexual assaults as defined by federal laws, firing or tampering with the vessel, or theft of money or property in excess of $10,000) the incident must be reported to the F.B.I. by telephone as soon as possible, to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security electronically, and to the U.S. Coast Guard in writing. These requirements apply to incidents that occur on board in U.S. territorial waters, or on the high seas or in foreign waters if the assailant or victim is a U.S. national."

This info is then followed with phone numbers for the FBI, Coast Guard, and numerous local law enforcement departments, including Port Canaveral.

I wonder if these reports were filed. I'm guessing not since DCL doesn't show up in Q3 2012 reporting on the Coast Guard website.

 

[Zeppelin]

It might be that your beef is with nautical law, not disney. If the rules of the sea are that upon finding compelling evidence of illegality that the protocol is to detain the accused and turn him/her over to the cops at the next port of call, then they did what they were supposed to. That does not mean you have to like it, but it also might mean that disney is not at fault.

This happened right before departure. it it had happened half way to nassau no one would say peep, what disney did everyone would support.
What if it was a 1/4 of the way to nassau ? what if it was 1/8th, 1/16th, 1/32 ? I'm afraid that you are never going to get a consesnus at which point the captain has a moral obligation to turn the ship around and go back to port so I think this falls into a grey area. I also dont think that it is practical to ask the captain to drop anchor at every allegation of illegality that occurs on the ship.

I think that disney is in a hard spot here, and although it is easy to infer some sort of malice a lot of times people make decisions based on the information they had at the time that in retrospect they would probably not.

It would have been great had disney detained the accused in the brig, gotten back to pc and then let the florida cops have a go at him. but my understanding is that they cant hold him against his will once they get to another port, they either have to hand him off to the local cops there or let him go, they cant detain him indefinitely until they get back to florida. once he was off the ship and the bahamanian cops would not ( or could not) arrest or detain him, he's perfectly within his rights to fly back to india. The fact that disney payed for it looks bad but if its a contractual obligation, then its a contractual obligation.

i would imagine that disney will modify the employment contracts to absolve them of having to pay to return employees to go home in the event they are terminated for a variety of causes, independently of whether there are formal charges brought or not.

we may never know- but i think Disney put themselves in a hard spot rather than finding themselves in a hard spot...had they called local authorities immediatelyand authorities respond, "we have no jurisdiction" then that part of the conversation is no longer up for debate...according to the timeline shown, DCL had reason to believe the allegation was true before the Dream left port...

 

[Zeppelin]

This is part of the topic that is difficult to think/talk about and upsets many people.

She was fondled and kissed. Wrong? Absolutely. Illegal? Completely. Different from what could happen on a subway? Or in a middle school? Not really. Guarantee that most dudes who cop a feel on subways or whatever are not up for felony charges. It doesn't make them right or ok, but as the survivor of abuse said, sometimes the reaction to it can make an even bigger impact on the damage done.

As a devil's advocate position: In the subway, middle school and possibly even this situation, the child could even be far more traumatized by adults acting like it is a big trauma. She would have had her vacation cancelled, because she would have been taken off the ship with the accused. Again, not saying what happened was right, but there are different levels of assault and sexual assault. The law would treat it differently.

disagree completely...

what happened to this girl is similar to a teacher sexually abusing a school child or a pastor/priest doing the same...

in the CM she saw someone she thought she could trust, though could help her but instead it was worse than she could imagine...as far as trauma- i could imagine how the girl felt the rest of the cruise whenever she saw a male CM, never mind any CM that had a resemblance to her assaulter...

Call me cynical, but even if he was off the ship in the US, if the girl and g-ma didn't skip their vacation to stay and make the report, he would be sent back to India. If they did stay and make a report, most likely he would get a plea bargain and sent back to India after a few months in jail in the US.

you could be correct- but at least the guy would've had a record, likely as a sexual predator, which would be a huge scarlet letter around his neck in a lot of countries....

 

[Zeppelin]

This guy was an employee, not some random dude/perv on the subway or in a middle school. If your saying that people would brush off a teacher/custodian or principal who fondled an 11 year old student and forceably kissed her on the mouth and pass it off as a minor thing that isnt worth traumatizing the kid over, I'm glad my kids don't go to that school.

have we become so jaded as a society that we can rationalize not doing everything possible to see that adults who prey on children don't see the full brunt of the legal profession ? this wasnt two kids of different age fooling around, this was an adult fondling an 11 year old girl. that's never acceptable irrespective of whether it traumatises the child or not, and there are somethings that should be punished exclusively on the intent, not the extent of the damage done.

And I'm sure that doing a few months in a us prison as a pedophile is no walk in the park. It might not be rehabilative, but its a hell of a lot closer to justice than thumbing your nose at the girl from half a world away as you post to facebook.

I'm not mad at you and I understand you position that there are many girls and women who have gotten it way worse, but that doesnt give this guy a pass in my book. it just doesnt. You cross the line we come after you both barrels, you dont get to plead for leniency because there are worse people who more egregiously crossed that line. I dont care if you ( not you personally off course) are the worlds " best" pedophile, your still a pedophile.

couldn't have said it better...in the CM she saw someone she thought she could trust or go to for help in a time of need...

 

[SapphireMind]

I just highly doubt that the guy would have any sort of a felony conviction. He'd get protected from the other population because he wouldn't be in the big prison yet because he wouldn't have been convicted yet. And again, frequently, our solution to criminals from other countries is to just send them back where they came from.

None of that justifies anything, but I find it hard to get nearly as worked up when he has probably the same result even if it had been done through FL police.

 

[justmestace]

out of curiosity- did you get the name of the "they" who told you that? also-did you follow up?? not trying to be a wise guy, rather learn from your experience....

I only know the name of the CD. Honestly, I was in too much pain and too doped up to think to get their names, or a copy of anything except my onboard medical bill.
I think I may have thought that knowing that they were the"Heads of" those departments on that particular cruise was enough. They gave me a card with the name and phone number of the person to contact shore side ( who I did call) and I trusted them. I followed up later with letters and emails to our TA, to DCL Guest Services, and to the supposed address of the President of DCL.
Our TA got nowhere with her questions, I never heard back from the President's office and Guest Services sent a brief letter saying they were sorry, nothing they could do, but hoped to see me onboard again sometime.

 

[Zeppelin]

I only know the name of the CD. Honestly, I was in too much pain and too doped up to think to get their names, or a copy of anything except my onboard medical bill.
I think I may have thought that knowing that they were the"Heads of" those departments on that particular cruise was enough. They gave me a card with the name and phone number of the person to contact shore side ( who I did call) and I trusted them. I followed up later with letters and emails to our TA, to DCL Guest Services, and to the supposed address of the President of DCL.
Our TA got nowhere with her questions, I never heard back from the President's office and Guest Services sent a brief letter saying they were sorry, nothing they could do, but hoped to see me onboard again sometime.

that's unbelievable....

if there's any silver lining to this its someone in Disney/DCL has surely stepped up and taken notice; whether its the initial story or threads like this (i firmly believe they have CM's checking dedicated Disney sites to see what's being posted)...

 

[rhorsley]

that's unbelievable....

if there's any silver lining to this its someone in Disney/DCL has surely stepped up and taken notice; whether its the initial story or threads like this (i firmly believe they have CM's checking dedicated Disney sites to see what's being posted)...

What makes you think they stepped up or took notice? Did I miss a post?

 

[KashasMom]

It's disappointing that Disney has not responded as of now. I don't expect that they will.

What's really rattled me though is the realization that there is no way for DCL to be checking the people they're hiring to watch my child.

 

[Zeppelin]

What makes you think they stepped up or took notice? Did I miss a post?

my assumption based on the fact this story has been out in the public for less than five days....never mind the fact if you read the early posts from this thread people/posters have called DCL with their concerns...

 

[rhorsley]

my assumption based on the fact this story has been out in the public for less than five days....never mind the fact if you read the early posts from this thread people/posters have called DCL with their concerns...

Ah...I hope so. I emailed 2 days ago and didn't even get the obligatory "thanks for contacting us" response

 

[Wadekind]

So the individual was interviewed by security at 7:00 so you would have 4000 peoples vactions including the gril who was assulted ruined return ship to PC. First you need to get facts in order, Security did excellent job. The ship had sailed by the time they had the employee ID.
As a US tax payer Thank You Disney. Think about what PC Police said he would serve 25 years in us jail. Thats a couple of million dollars.

The Facts are in order.
1.The incident was reported to DCL 2 hours before sail away. A 30sec. phone call was all the effort it would have taken.
2.Security delayed reporting this to the authorities who had jurisdiction at the time of the accusation. They didn't need an ID before calling the police. They had the victims statement.
3.It was for the local police detectives to investigate and determine if an arrest needed to be made. Not DCL.

I believe the girl who was molested had her vacation "ruined" as you say the moment the guy cornered her in the elevator.

And YES, ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT I will take justice over yours or 10 million peoples delayed (not ruined) sail away party. DCL did not have to sail before this guy was ID'd. I think this is a callous viewpoint when we are more concerned with a bump in our vacation plans rather than the well being of a victim and getting a sexual predator off the ship ASAP.

You missed the part where they said he now has no criminal record now and it is possible he could go to work on another cruise line because he has experience. Guys like him don't quit and only get more bold and violent. I am willing to pay to incarcerate someone if it means he can't do this to anyone again. It may save someone I know.

 

[Wadekind]

It might be that your beef is with nautical law, not disney. If the rules of the sea are that upon finding compelling evidence of illegality that the protocol is to detain the accused and turn him/her over to the cops at the next port of call, then they did what they were supposed to. That does not mean you have to like it, but it also might mean that disney is not at fault.

This happened right before departure. it it had happened half way to nassau no one would say peep, what disney did everyone would support.
What if it was a 1/4 of the way to nassau ? what if it was 1/8th, 1/16th, 1/32 ? I'm afraid that you are never going to get a consesnus at which point the captain has a moral obligation to turn the ship around and go back to port so I think this falls into a grey area. I also dont think that it is practical to ask the captain to drop anchor at every allegation of illegality that occurs on the ship.

I think that disney is in a hard spot here, and although it is easy to infer some sort of malice a lot of times people make decisions based on the information they had at the time that in retrospect they would probably not.

It would have been great had disney detained the accused in the brig, gotten back to pc and then let the florida cops have a go at him. but my understanding is that they cant hold him against his will once they get to another port, they either have to hand him off to the local cops there or let him go, they cant detain him indefinitely until they get back to florida. once he was off the ship and the bahamanian cops would not ( or could not) arrest or detain him, he's perfectly within his rights to fly back to india. The fact that disney payed for it looks bad but if its a contractual obligation, then its a contractual obligation.

i would imagine that disney will modify the employment contracts to absolve them of having to pay to return employees to go home in the event they are terminated for a variety of causes, independently of whether there are formal charges brought or not.

They weren't underway when the accusation was made. They sat on it for 2 hours before the ship sailed. There is no gray area here. DCL did not inform the local authorities who DID have jurisdiction while the ship was docked.

 

[Zeppelin]

Ah...I hope so. I emailed 2 days ago and didn't even get the obligatory "thanks for contacting us" response

could be they are in damage control mode and blindsided as well...good job for emailing them....

 

[GoofyTwinDad]

Duplicate post

 

[GoofyTwinDad]

IMHO, there is zero likelihood that a security officer had the power to make the decision of whether or not to contact the local authorities. I don't believe GS would contact only security about a child molestation without notifying the senior officers.

What would be the number one most damaging scenario that would affect the familial image that Disney wants to be known for.... A CM raping or sexually molesting a child. I think the captain knew about the incident from the very beginning and made a conscious decision to get out of PC prior to calling the local authorities. If it comes out that I am wrong in my belief, Disney will never see another dime from our family.

If you think Disney would not put pressure on the GM or offer restitution to keep quiet, your crazy. Disney will do anything possible to keep public perception to the highest degree possible. If they have to pay a few thousand to save millions in the long run, they would not blink twice about it.

I find it very difficult to believe that DCL does not have a clause in the contract that nullifies DCL's obligation to transport the CM if they commit a crime such as molesting a child. IMO, molesting a child would be a serious breach of contract, thus nullifying the requirement to fly the CM home. I think DCL needed the CM off the ship prior to returning to PC to elimate any chance that this event would be investigated and end up being made available to the public.

I'm not surprised that Disney is not responding to requests for clarification. It's difficult to pull your head outof the sand and see the light of thd day.

 

[justmestace]

I can speak to how quickly some of the senior officers reacted to my accident. It happened at about 1:45 embarkation day. Guest Services and the medical center were notified immediately.

BEFORE the lifeboat drill, I had already seen the Head of Housekeeping, Head of Security and the CD, in my stateroom. So what time is the lifeboat drill? 3:30? 4:00? So it was two hours max, by the time they heard about it and were either checking to see how I was doing, or beginning their damage control, depending on how you look at it.

And they came back every day.

 

[Plaid Princess]

But it's the same in the Disney Parks.....no one dies at Disney.....they wait until a body is off property before declaring a death. God forbid Disney should get a bad reputation.

Ok... I told myself I wasn't going to comment on this thread... but this statement just infuriates me. It's untrue and unfair to the thousands of cast members who put the guests safety ahead of their own. I've been thrown up on, held collapsed, heat exhausted guests in my arms, done CPR, used AED's, been a mediator between the paramedics and a party that spoke another language. I've broken up fights, intervened in domestic disputes, and on one occasion put myself between a wife and her abusive husband.

One bad apple should not discredit the thousands of CM's who believe that the guests safety is their number one priority. Disney puts safety ahead of EVERYTHING. Even the courtesy of the CM's is secondary to the guest's safety. CM's are the reason you do feel safe and comfortable in a Disney environment.

The reason that guests are not pronounced dead in Disney Parks is because there are no doctors on scene to make such a pronouncement, the paramedics treat the patient as if they are alive and do everything in their power to keep it that way.

 

[tinkerbell 766]

Ok... I told myself I wasn't going to comment on this thread... but this statement just infuriates me. It's untrue and unfair to the thousands of cast members who put the guests safety ahead of their own. I've been thrown up on, held collapsed, heat exhausted guests in my arms, done CPR, used AED's, been a mediator between the paramedics and a party that spoke another language. I've broken up fights, intervened in domestic disputes, and on one occasion put myself between a wife and her abusive husband.

One bad apple should not discredit the thousands of CM's who believe that the guests safety is their number one priority. Disney puts safety ahead of EVERYTHING. Even the courtesy of the CM's is secondary to the guest's safety. CM's are the reason you do feel safe and comfortable in a Disney environment.
Well said!!!
The reason that guests are not pronounced dead in Disney Parks is because there are no doctors on scene to make such a pronouncement, the paramedics treat the patient as if they are alive and do everything in their power to keep it that way.

Well said!!!!

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Quote:
Call me cynical, but even if he was off the ship in the US, if the girl and g-ma didn't skip their vacation to stay and make the report, he would be sent back to India. If they did stay and make a report, most likely he would get a plea bargain and sent back to India after a few months in jail in the US.

you could be correct- but at least the guy would've had a record, likely as a sexual predator, which would be a huge scarlet letter around his neck in a lot of countries....
__________________


The Maritime cruise industry as big as it is, is a tight knit group and they keep in touch with each other more then you may think competitors would.

This guys name is on a list by now. A list all the cruise lines and the hiring companies have. Unless he can totally change his name, looks and background, it is highly unlikely he will ever get a job on a cruise ship again.


AKK