Orlando Sentinel story about "inappropriate fondling" on the Dream

[DCL Repeaters]

I am going to bail out of this discussion b/c I am just shocked at the few of you with your rose colored glasses. Baffling.

I agree.

 

[Bella29]

I'm not sure who is actually wearing rose colored glasses. I live in the real world and presented very real world information. Facts and data. An incident occured, DCL investigated and dealt with the issue. The fact that the victim did not want to press charges is frustrating because this prevert is stil out there. But that was the fault of the victim....or rather her grandparents.

This is completely offensive and WRONG. Ethically and legally, DCL was in the wrong by not reporting this to the local police. What does it matter if their officers are "packing" if they are using their authority to aid and abet pedophiles escaping justice?

Whose word do we have that the grandparents decided not to press charges? Only DCL's. So they (DCL) decided police don't get to investigate based on that? No. That's not their prerogative.

 

[Bella29]

If this had been reported 3 hrs later, there would be no question that it was DCL's authority and responsibility to investigate the incident. DCL security personell investigate all kinds of incidents every day they are at sea. They are trained to do investigations and they are trained in law enforcement. This only issue is one of jurisdiction. All security issues on the ship must include the ship's security. Local law enforcement can't even get on the ship unless they go thru the ships security personell. This was not an emergency situation. Although people are talking about it like it was. This was alledged inapropiate touching and required an investigation. Had they called the cops in PC they might have shown up an hour or so later. They would have to be allowed on the ship by the ship security and they would have had to be escorted and guided by security to go view the tape and taken by security to question the child. This was an incident that requied an investigationa and that what the ships security did.

Bottom line is, if you don't trust the ship's security officers to do their job then you should not cruise because once you are at sea, there is no 911 call to get a cop.

1. It didn't happen at sea 3 hours later, it happened in port several hours before sail away.
2. The ship's security officers didn't prevent this crime, they didn't report it, and they hustled a known child assaulter off the ship in the Bahamas and paid his fare home so he could avoid investigation and prosecution in the us, where the crime occurred. How can this be considered doing their jobs?
3. I'm not sure what you mean by acting like it was an emergency. I do think they should have acted like it was a crime. I don't think he should have been airlifted off the boat, but I do think this should have been reported to the right authorities in a timely manner.
4. I don't know how long the police would take to arrive, nor does that even make a difference here other than to provide motive for DCL's coverup.
5. Previously I did trust in DCL. That trust has been shaken and if they don't answer for this and change their policies to protect children, then you're right, I shouldn't cruise with them again. and I won't. But that doesn't mean I don't have a right to question their actions in this matter.

 

[Rogillio]

This is completely offensive and WRONG. Ethically and legally, DCL was in the wrong by not reporting this to the local police. What does it matter if their officers are "packing" if they are using their authority to aid and abet pedophiles escaping justice?

Whose word do we have that the grandparents decided not to press charges? Only DCL's. So they (DCL) decided police don't get to investigate based on that? No. That's not their prerogative.

I'm sorry you find that offensive. I've tried to stick to the facts and keep the emotions out of it.

Guest services notified: 3:03
Security called at 3:22
Tape viewed: 4:48
Ship sailed: 5:02

I doubt DCL is not under a legal obligation to "immediately notify local law enforcement" before they do a preliminary investigation...anymore than Walmart has a legal obligation to report illegal activity in their store before doing a preliminary investigation.

Had the timeline been 14 minutes later it would clearly fall on ship's security. Ships security deal with hundreds of issues and allegations but don't dial 911 becuase most of the time they are at sea.

 

[pyramid2000]

If this had been reported 3 hrs later, there would be no question that it was DCL's authority and responsibility to investigate the incident. DCL security personell investigate all kinds of incidents every day they are at sea. They are trained to do investigations and they are trained in law enforcement. This only issue is one of jurisdiction. All security issues on the ship must include the ship's security. Local law enforcement can't even get on the ship unless they go thru the ships security personell. This was not an emergency situation. Although people are talking about it like it was. This was alledged inapropiate touching and required an investigation. Had they called the cops in PC they might have shown up an hour or so later. They would have to be allowed on the ship by the ship security and they would have had to be escorted and guided by security to go view the tape and taken by security to question the child. This was an incident that requied an investigationa and that what the ships security did.

Really? An 11 year old child was sexually assaulted in a place with MANY more children. The man was free on the ship for another 4 hours after this altercation (at least 2 hours after he was identified) so the victim and every other passenger were in danger of coming in contact with this man. I could care less where the ship was when it happened on this point. DCL security failed in that they did not immediately detain their employee as soon as they had identification!

I guess you could say lucky for DCL that the victim is not a US citizen (assuming) in that they are not required to contact the FBI regardless of where the crime occurred for a non-citizen.

 

[Rogillio]

That trust has been shaken and if they don't answer for this and change their policies to protect children, then you're right, I shouldn't cruise with them again. and I won't.

Then you should not sail on ANY cruise line becuase once you are at sea the ship's security is all you got. There is no reason to believe DCL handled this any differently than any other cruise line would have handled it. Each ship has security and no security offficer is going to 'call 911' prior to doing a preliminary investigation just because they are docked.

 

[jenifred]

I am the mother of a young daughter, but I am not totally upset with DCLs choice of action. Nor am I going to demand a written explination from DCL or cancel a cruise because of it.

Would you want your employer to call the police to have you arrested without anyone ever talking to you? Should DCL call the police every time someone claims their room steward took something? What if they had identified the wrong person based on the video alone? What if the wrong guy had been dragged off the ship? What if the girl had lied? (I'm not saying she did.) The video is not cut and dry, with regard to the person or what happened. My point is that perhaps it was not unreasonable for DCL to ask some questions.

DCL started an investigation, located the person they believed to be the attacker, questioned him, got an in-person ID by the girl, reported it to FL police during the process and turned him over to authorities immedaitely upon getting to the Bahamas. The girl was not in an immedite risk of harm. The guy was not going to be able run away. And I doubt seriously DCL let him wander the ship once they found him. Even if the FL police had been involved, the outcome would have no different. It was the grandparents who "let him get away".

 

[BuzzLightyearInTampa]

But they didn't do all they could....they could have (and should have) followed Florida law, and called the police while they were still in port.....

Re-read what I said. "Disney did all they could do at that time by firing him and sending him home." Yes, in the Bahamas, when the grandmother refused to press charges, what else could they have done? I agree someone (or multiple people) dropped the ball in Florida. But in the Bahamas, they acted appropriately.

 

[BuzzLightyearInTampa]

.... It was the grandparents who "let him get away".

 

[justmestace]

Re-read what I said. "Disney did all they could do at that time by firing him and sending him home." Yes, in the Bahamas, when the grandmother refused to press charges, what else could they have done? I agree someone (or multiple people) dropped the ball in Florida. But in the Bahamas, they acted appropriately.

You're right, and I don't dispute that they did the right thing ONCE THEY GOT TO THE BAHAMAS....especially since the guy confessed.

But the NUMBER ONE RIGHT THING would have been to call Florida authorities and let them handle the whole thing....therefore, they were WRONG.

 

[justmestace]

I am the mother of a young daughter, but I am not totally upset with DCLs choice of action. Nor am I going to demand a written explination from DCL or cancel a cruise because of it.

Would you want your employer to call the police to have you arrested without anyone ever talking to you? Should DCL call the police every time someone claims their room steward took something? What if they had identified the wrong person based on the video alone? What if the wrong guy had been dragged off the ship? What if the girl had lied? (I'm not saying she did.) The video is not cut and dry, with regard to the person or what happened. My point is that perhaps it was not unreasonable for DCL to ask some questions.

DCL started an investigation, located the person they believed to be the attacker, questioned him, got an in-person ID by the girl, reported it to FL police during the process and turned him over to authorities immedaitely upon getting to the Bahamas. The girl was not in an immedite risk of harm. The guy was not going to be able run away. And I doubt seriously DCL let him wander the ship once they found him. Even if the FL police had been involved, the outcome would have no different. It was the grandparents who "let him get away".

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if I, or anyone else, were accused of child molestation, my employer should DO THE RIGHT THING....which is to call the police and let THEM hear the girl, see the tape and decide.

I don't understand why anyone would defend DCL's actions with this. It's totally beyond my comprehension. Do people not understand THE LAW????

It doesn't matter if the police, or the employer KNOW WHO THE SUSPECT IS. The majority of crimes are committed by an unknown person, and it's the law's job to find that person. You don't wait to call the police until after you find the criminal!!! Even if it's only alleged......

Unbelievable.

 

[Rogillio]

I am the mother of a young daughter, but I am not totally upset with DCLs choice of action. Nor am I going to demand a written explination from DCL or cancel a cruise because of it.

Would you want your employer to call the police to have you arrested without anyone ever talking to you? Should DCL call the police every time someone claims their room steward took something? What if they had identified the wrong person based on the video alone? What if the wrong guy had been dragged off the ship? What if the girl had lied? (I'm not saying she did.) The video is not cut and dry, with regard to the person or what happened. My point is that perhaps it was not unreasonable for DCL to ask some questions.

DCL started an investigation, located the person they believed to be the attacker, questioned him, got an in-person ID by the girl, reported it to FL police during the process and turned him over to authorities immedaitely upon getting to the Bahamas. The girl was not in an immedite risk of harm. The guy was not going to be able run away. And I doubt seriously DCL let him wander the ship once they found him. Even if the FL police had been involved, the outcome would have no different. It was the grandparents who "let him get away".

Thanks you for your very rationale opinion! I was thinking the same thing.

If a teacher is reported to the principal that a teacher 'touched them inapropiately' would you want the cops to rush in and drag the teacher out of school in handcuffs? Maybe the principal should do a little investigation to validate the claim? Maybe he should talk to the teacher first! Maybe he should look at the video tape from the classroom. Find out if there were witnesses. Once there is reasonable cause to conclude a crime has been committed, then you call the cops.

 

[justmestace]

I'm sorry you find that offensive. I've tried to stick to the facts and keep the emotions out of it.

Guest services notified: 3:03
Security called at 3:22
Tape viewed: 4:48
Ship sailed: 5:02

I doubt DCL is not under a legal obligation to "immediately notify local law enforcement" before they do a preliminary investigation...anymore than Walmart has a legal obligation to report illegal activity in their store before doing a preliminary investigation.

Had the timeline been 14 minutes later it would clearly fall on ship's security. Ships security deal with hundreds of issues and allegations but don't dial 911 becuase most of the time they are at sea.

First off, they had TWO HOURS to call the proper authorities.

Second....you're wrong. Walmart, DCL, anyone......MUST call the police when an alleged crime such as child molestation has been reported on U.S. soil. Just because it happened on "private property" doesn't mean that they can do their own investigation. I can think of so many scenarios where a defense like that one wouldn't hold water. What if someone robbed my business, and I decided to be the judge and jury and just shot the guy?????
DCL HAD NO RIGHT TO WITHHOLD THE INFORMATION FROM THE FLORIDA AUTHORITIES.

If your daughter were raped by a stranger, would you want to go out and find the person first, before you called the police???

And last.....it DIDN'T occur 14 minutes later!!!! They had time, they could have held the ship, they CHOSE NOT TO.


I honestly don't understand why anyone would be defending DCL's actions....or anyone's actions that let a molester go free.



I know everyone has heard me say this before, and I've been trying really hard to not say it, but I guarantee you that if this had happened on any other cruise line (especially Carnival) while they were still in port, people on this Board would be going NUTS over it.

 

[justmestace]

Thanks you for your very rationale opinion! I was thinking the same thing.

If a teacher is reported to the principal that a teacher 'touched them inapropiately' would you want the cops to rush in and drag the teacher out of school in handcuffs? Maybe the principal should do a little investigation to validate the claim? Maybe he should talk to the teacher first! Maybe he should look at the video tape from the classroom. Find out if there were witnesses. Once there is reasonable cause to conclude a crime has been committed, then you call the cops.

No no and NO.

Do you SERIOUSLY want the principal to JUDGE whether or not YOUR CHILD is telling the truth????????
Oh my lord, I hope nothing like this ever happens in your family.

It's not like the cops are going to rush the school with guns drawn and haul the teacher out. They'll come in and sit in a quiet room and ASK QUESTIONS.

Any "reported" crime is not the job of the employer to investigate. It's not like the teacher was accused of stealing pencils from the supply room!!!

 

[PatriciaH]

First off, they had TWO HOURS to call the proper authorities.

Second....you're wrong. Walmart, DCL, anyone......MUST call the police when an alleged crime such as child molestation has been reported on U.S. soil. Just because it happened on "private property" doesn't mean that they can do their own investigation. I can think of so many scenarios where a defense like that one wouldn't hold water. What if someone robbed my business, and I decided to be the judge and jury and just shot the guy?????
DCL HAD NO RIGHT TO WITHHOLD THE INFORMATION FROM THE FLORIDA AUTHORITIES.

If your daughter were raped by a stranger, would you want to go out and find the person first, before you called the police???

And last.....it DIDN'T occur 14 minutes later!!!! They had time, they could have held the ship, they CHOSE NOT TO.


I honestly don't understand why anyone would be defending DCL's actions....or anyone's actions that let a molester go free.



I know everyone has heard me say this before, and I've been trying really hard to not say it, but I guarantee you that if this had happened on any other cruise line (especially Carnival) while they were still in port, people on this Board would be going NUTS over it.

ITA. I canceled our cruise and told the res agent why. I am sad because I love Disney. I worked there for years. I have many friends that still work there. I can not give them my money after this though.

 

[justmestace]

Did the Family of the girl notify police? I didn't read everything fully so don't know if that was said or not.

The little girl and her grandmother are from Brazil. They may not have spoken English, they may not have owned a cell phone, and they probably TRUSTED DCL to do the right thing.
In a situation like this one, I guarantee you that it would be pretty easy to convince the grandmother that "all will be taken care of", and "we'll handle this" and "we just want you to try to enjoy the rest of your cruise" and most likely "we'll pay for all your onboard charges" (maybe even the whole cruise, who knows?) And the grandma didn't know any better.

I really pray that nothing awful like a rape ever happens to you or someone you love, because trust me from experience, you have no idea how you will react until that does happen. Frantic, sick, insane.....these words don't begin to explain the emotions. And you lose your head....totally cannot think straight.

I don't see how anyone could even begin to blame the grandmother for ANY of this.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

For the record:

1. By international law the Vessel is under Bahamas flag and the Bahamas they can and apparently DID assert jurisdiction after they got to Nassau.

In Florida, local, state and/or the feds could assert jurisdiction. I see no report they ever did, even after they were advised.

2. The vessel was 100% wrong morally and I believe legally to have sailed without advising if not local, SOME authority before leaving Florida.

3. The Master was aware of what was going on, maybe not the full details, but of the attack and was at best wrong to sail.

4. While in Nassau, the authorities questioned the ******* and got him to admit. What they may or may not have required regarding this ******* flown home to India (which we all know from the recent events and rapes in India, do not take this kind of thing seriously) I do not know.

5. There MAY have been a crew contract which required Disney to fly the ******* to India to face legal action there.

6. I don't blame the grandmother from wanting to stop the investigation to protect the child. We all know how corrupted the lawyers and judged have made our legal system trying to protect criminals. They would have put that child though hell!

7. I don't care how long ago this happened, its still wrong!


As the vessel had already sailed, I would have preferred they had just. dropping the ******* overboard at sea!

Pleas note my last comment was as a Father and not a Ships Officer.

AKK

 

[pyramid2000]

Thanks you for your very rationale opinion! I was thinking the same thing.

If a teacher is reported to the principal that a teacher 'touched them inapropiately' would you want the cops to rush in and drag the teacher out of school in handcuffs? Maybe the principal should do a little investigation to validate the claim? Maybe he should talk to the teacher first! Maybe he should look at the video tape from the classroom. Find out if there were witnesses. Once there is reasonable cause to conclude a crime has been committed, then you call the cops.

The principal is required to report any suspected abuse. He/she has no other choice.

 

[maria-fan-22]

The principal is required to report any suspected abuse. He/she has no other choice.

Not to the cops, a similar thing happened with a teacher in Oklahoma and the cops were not called until after the school district conducted their own investigation.

 

[justmestace]

Not to the cops, a similar thing happened with a teacher in Oklahoma and the cops were not called until after the school district conducted their own investigation.

You'll always be able to find one or two cases where someone took the law into their own hands, or checked facts first......but it is NOT the job of the school (or cruise line) to investigate first, call cops later.

This was wrong. There are no two ways about it. They were on U.S. soil, the Florida authorities should have been called immediately.