RFID - passive or active?

[Pirate princess 2]

A couple of things...


BTW - to be clear - when I referred to to tracking positions with active RFID I meant "real" tracking. With active RFID you can triangulate positions and track people much like you would with a GPS. I honestly don't see Disney doing this because I really don't see the use in it. But it is theoretically possible.


Do you think they would do this to help find say a missing child? Idk why else they would specifically need to know someone's exact point at any given time. That could be a selling point to some parents who maybe nervous about taking their kids to such a big place especially during busy times. If Disney advertised that they could find your little one in a matter of a few minutes or less, those parents might be more willing to shell out their money to Disney.

 

[Spacedog1975]

Do you think they would do this to help find say a missing child? .

This would be cool. Additionally, it would be awesome to be able to track your party via a cell phone app.

 

[Virtucomp]

I was hoping they would have a display like you were playing roller coaster tycoon. You could watch all the guests wondering the park and see what they are thinking too!

 

[doconeill]

Do you think they would do this to help find say a missing child? Idk why else they would specifically need to know someone's exact point at any given time. That could be a selling point to some parents who maybe nervous about taking their kids to such a big place especially during busy times. If Disney advertised that they could find your little one in a matter of a few minutes or less, those parents might be more willing to shell out their money to Disney.

This would be cool. Additionally, it would be awesome to be able to track your party via a cell phone app.

I think they might have an uphill battle...it's a great idea, but then you get a lot of pushback concerns over privacy, creepiness, etc.

But what they CAN do is swipe a child's magicband and instantly get information on the child and the family. The can do the same for a family member looking for the child. And it would be a simple matter of being able to pair the two together, send notifications, etc..."It's OK Timmy, we know where your parents are, they are over by Mad Tea Party and they'll be right here in a moment..."

Don't forget...there are no lost children at WDW, only lost parents

 

[HootDad]

As mentioned, it will be used to trigger custom experiences without specific action by the guest, from a short distance.

Say, when you pass a certain point on an attraction, it will trigger something that happens up ahead, like a happy birthday message, etc.

I don't think that would require active though. I guess it depends on the range. I guess it would be easier with active, so that could be it.

 

[doconeill]

I don't think that would require active though. I guess it depends on the range. I guess it would be easier with active, so that could be it.

No, they don't have to be active, but like I said earlier, to read passive at a greater distance, you have to have a much larger magnetic field to power it, a different antenna configuration, etc.

It's one think to drive through one in a car at 20-60 mph to read your passive tag at 15 feet...it's another to be standing in that field for a long time...

 

[rock_doctor]

I am very much against RFID but now that disney is requiring a pass code for all purchases i am ok with the bands. Why do i care if disney knows i just went into the bathroom at space mountain.... I don't have an issue with them tracking me though the parks. This way they can give accurate wait times, personalize interactive que's and by knowing where the guests are, if there is an emergency they can get a message to you. And more importantly...if you lose your kid they should be able to (i would think) figure out where your kids band is or was the least time it passed a sensor.

 

[dadddio]

It's OK Timmy, we know where your parents are, they are over by Mad Tea Party and they'll be right here in a moment..."

Don't forget...there are no lost children at WDW, only lost parents

That would only work if Timmy had his smartphone on him to get the message. If that were the case, he would already be in contact with his parents.

 

[doconeill]

That would only work if Timmy had his smartphone on him to get the message. If that were the case, he would already be in contact with his parents.

I'm not sure you are getting the references...or which one.

First, I was spoofing what might be said by a cast member to a child found separated from their parent/guardian, who was wearing a MagicBand that could be scanned by the CM with a special scanner, return the child's name, parent name, contact, and location (if they really are tracking to that level). Timmy does not require a smartphone for that.

Second, I was spoofing how it is always said that only the parents get lost at Disney...and definitely no smartphone required for that.

 

[AladdinToMy4YO]

I was hoping they would have a display like you were playing roller coaster tycoon. You could watch all the guests wondering the park and see what they are thinking too!

Excellent! Disney's response to the Maurader's Map from Harry Potter!

 

[dawgsgirl]

Was the old Pal Mickey a test of this system??

 

[doconeill]

Was the old Pal Mickey a test of this system??

It could have very well been a test of a proximity triggered system, although in reverse. It also used different technology if I remember.

 

[MrRomance]

My instinct tells me that the bands are both active and passive because I genuinely believe that the longer term goals for this technology will be crowd control which I've mentioned in other threads.

I think what we will see going forward is Disney using the tracking data to divert people using the App. Let me try to explain what I mean in practical terms (because I'm not an expert in the technology by any stretch of the imagination)

Space Mountain reaches 100 min wait in standby and is out of FPs. As the guest approaches the data activates a coupon or voucher for free ice-cream valid for the next 30 minutes, to one of the party that can only be redeemed on the other side of the park. All guests in the party head over to get said free ice-cream (and probably buy one for the rest of the party!) and that diverts them away from the overcrowded ride. Make sense?

 

[Pirate princess 2]

My instinct tells me that the bands are both active and passive because I genuinely believe that the longer term goals for this technology will be crowd control which I've mentioned in other threads.

I think what we will see going forward is Disney using the tracking data to divert people using the App. Let me try to explain what I mean in practical terms (because I'm not an expert in the technology by any stretch of the imagination)

Space Mountain reaches 100 min wait in standby and is out of FPs. As the guest approaches the data activates a coupon or voucher for free ice-cream valid for the next 30 minutes, to one of the party that can only be redeemed on the other side of the park. All guests in the party head over to get said free ice-cream (and probably buy one for the rest of the party!) and that diverts them away from the overcrowded ride. Make sense?

This toatally makes sense to me. It seems like a win win for everyone. The guest doesn't have to wait in a very long line and gets free ice cream. Who doesn't love free ice cream. I think your idea is a great one. Guests will walk away,I believe, with a positive Disney experience. They may feel Disney cares about them, and Disney may make more money in the process with the sale of more ice cream (or whatever just sticking with the ice cream reference).

 

[MrRomance]

This toatally makes sense to me. It seems like a win win for everyone. The guest doesn't have to wait in a very long line and gets free ice cream. Who doesn't love free ice cream. I think your idea is a great one. Guests will walk away,I believe, with a positive Disney experience. They may feel Disney cares about them, and Disney may make more money in the process with the sale of more ice cream (or whatever just sticking with the ice cream reference).

I genuinely think that is what this technology is going to be about. Disney make more money (which lets face it is what they want to do!), the guest thinks the free ice-cream is fantastic (without realising that one person getting it for free means they'll buy a few more), it diverts the guest away from long lines and also it allows Disney to mobilize CM, transportation, etc. much more effectively, particularly at busy times.

I can see dozens of ways tracking and controlling guests can benefit Disney, all while making the guest have a great experience and feel Disney are offering them something for nothing. Giving away a free ice-cream to sell 3 more is good sound business sense. Giving away a FP for a different attraction to stop lines getting too badly backed up makes good business sense (no one ever stopped by a store or a concession stand while standing in line for a ride!).

 

[doconeill]

Although they very well could do something like this, I wonder about the efficacy of it. First, this would only apply to guests with MagicBands (resort guests and AP holders who didn't opt out, other guests who opt-in with the charge) with a functioning transmitter, and a smartphone with the app loaded and notifications enabled.

Then they have to have noticed they got the notification, and then be willing to be diverted. I doubt you'd get my family to cross the entire park for one ice cream when we've got our plan.

Range could limit it as well, if the reported 15 ft range is true. Depending on where the receiver is, by the time the system could react, and then the guest reacts, etc. the guest could already be in line.

And how much impact will it really have? I think they'd really need to look at the larger scale vs. individual guests (i.e. the "mob level"), and location info is less relevant then.

I could see a little more of them knowing where you were at least recently (say, at Space Mountain), and sending hints or "Surprise FP+" to underutilized people-eaters (like Carousel of Progress) similar to what they do with the Surprise Fastpasses now, but better targeted.

Lots of questions remain to be answered.

 

[bcrook]

Here are a couple of scenarios I have been thinking about.

At some point, a customer could be assigned a schedule. Maybe it is at checkin or maybe when tickets are linked to an account and the 60 day mark hits. Or maybe a visitor just has Disney plan their 5 day trip for them. Disney would love to get as many people on board with that as possible. They really could balance out park attendance.

But, I was wondering if someone had a group of FP+ scheduled for DHS starting at 10:00 am. And then that party enters DAK at 9:00. I wonder if the FP+ reservations would be absorbed and available for immediate redistribution? Or if a warning is sent out to patrons, "you have FP+ reservations at DHS, do you want to switch to DAK?"

 

[doconeill]

Here are a couple of scenarios I have been thinking about.

At some point, a customer could be assigned a schedule. Maybe it is at checkin or maybe when tickets are linked to an account and the 60 day mark hits. Or maybe a visitor just has Disney plan their 5 day trip for them. Disney would love to get as many people on board with that as possible. They really could balance out park attendance.

But, I was wondering if someone had a group of FP+ scheduled for DHS starting at 10:00 am. And then that party enters DAK at 9:00. I wonder if the FP+ reservations would be absorbed and available for immediate redistribution? Or if a warning is sent out to patrons, "you have FP+ reservations at DHS, do you want to switch to DAK?"

Hmm...interesting thought. If they can get the guest to confirm that they want to rebook for AK, they can release the DHS slots back before they expire and benefit someone else. But it might depend on how much availability there is for advanced booking still at AK. My first though was, "Well, if they give up the one, take a few more slots at the other, no big deal..." then for some reason my brain skipped into "nefarious" mode and figured out how that could be abused...

I don't think Disney is trying to plan a guest's whole day for them though. Just a limited amount. I'm still wondering how much control over the return times you'll have, or if it's more of a "package deal" like was shown in some early prototypes.

 

[MrRomance]

Although they very well could do something like this, I wonder about the efficacy of it. First, this would only apply to guests with MagicBands (resort guests and AP holders who didn't opt out, other guests who opt-in with the charge) with a functioning transmitter, and a smartphone with the app loaded and notifications enabled.

Then they have to have noticed they got the notification, and then be willing to be diverted. I doubt you'd get my family to cross the entire park for one ice cream when we've got our plan.

Range could limit it as well, if the reported 15 ft range is true. Depending on where the receiver is, by the time the system could react, and then the guest reacts, etc. the guest could already be in line.

And how much impact will it really have? I think they'd really need to look at the larger scale vs. individual guests (i.e. the "mob level"), and location info is less relevant then.

I could see a little more of them knowing where you were at least recently (say, at Space Mountain), and sending hints or "Surprise FP+" to underutilized people-eaters (like Carousel of Progress) similar to what they do with the Surprise Fastpasses now, but better targeted.

Lots of questions remain to be answered.

As I said I'm not a technology person so I have no idea about that side of it. Obviously there will be people who opt out, don't have the app etc., but I don't see that being the majority and I don't think it will remain "optional" forever, especially if there are benefits (or penalities) that will apply to opting in or out.

I would imagine given the price tag that a lot of money has been spent on the software side of things that could automate much of the process.

I think it would be incredibly effective. For seasoned visitors who stick with a plan, a free ice-cream or fast pass may not be enough to divert them, but there are an awful lot of people who don't go with a plan, don't access sites like this and could be easily diverted. It wouldn't need to divert everyone, a percentage would do the trick. This year will be my 15th or so visit and I'm much more clued up now, but for many of my visits in the early years, I had no plan at all and I went with the flow and I really don't think I'm alone.

The bottom line with this whole system is we really don't know the answers yet, but having listened to the conference call for Q2 and thinking about how the system can pay for itself, there has to be more to it than we know right now. When you consider the objectives that Disney had with this system, it seems obvious to me that the aim here is the control of guests.

 

[bcrook]

Hmm...interesting thought. If they can get the guest to confirm that they want to rebook for AK, they can release the DHS slots back before they expire and benefit someone else. But it might depend on how much availability there is for advanced booking still at AK. My first though was, "Well, if they give up the one, take a few more slots at the other, no big deal..." then for some reason my brain skipped into "nefarious" mode and figured out how that could be abused...

I don't think Disney is trying to plan a guest's whole day for them though. Just a limited amount. I'm still wondering how much control over the return times you'll have, or if it's more of a "package deal" like was shown in some early prototypes.

I don't think they want to plan a whole day either. But if the can get people to go to certain parks and balance out attendance or slip in a few secondary ride FP+ (like stitch) then it works out well for them. People who understand the system will always know how to make the necessary changes to plan exactly how they want.