May Announcement?

[Echo7Solo]

"May the fourth be with you."

yeah that is what I was thinking too. More Star Wars. Unless they are getting Marvel in Orlando. Universal needs to let go.

 

[rteetz]

yeah that is what I was thinking too. More Star Wars. Unless they are getting Marvel in Orlando. Universal needs to let go.

I wish universal would let go but I just don't see it happening any time soon. Star Wars or cars is your best bet as a new announcement but then again its disney you never know what going to happen all we can do is hope.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[WDWChloe]

Isn't Universal going to be owing royalties to Disney soon? that's what I've heard from a CM friend. And after that happens, they'll either need to change the theme of the attractions or keep them as they are & pay the royalties. If they choose the latter Disney could buy them out eventually!

 

[tjkraz]

Isn't Universal going to be owing royalties to Disney soon? that's what I've heard from a CM friend. And after that happens, they'll either need to change the theme of the attractions or keep them as they are & pay the royalties. If they choose the latter Disney could buy them out eventually!

Universal Florida has been paying royalties to Disney (via the Marvel subsidiary) for several years now. The deal also guarantees retail space in the park for Marvel merchandise, character appearances in advertising and it gives Disney a degree of oversight in how the characters are used by USF.

Some of theorized that Universal may eventually want to terminate the deal just to end their business entanglements with Disney.

However, the one thing we do not know is the value of the agreement. Universal licensed the characters around 1999 / 2000 when Marvel was near rock bottom in terms of its popularity. That was before most of the popular feature films had been developed--certainly before The Avengers made over a billion at the box office.

I suspect the financial terms are such that USF is in no hurry to terminate the deal. It would cost them a lot of money to re-theme that area of the park and they would be losing access to a line of characters which have never been more popular.

Meanwhile, Universal's licensing only applies east of the Mississippi. Disney has every right to add Marvel characters to the two parks in Disneyland and others around the world. I think that's exactly what we will see them do.

 

[MamaJessie]

I have nothing against "Josh"...


Again...its not personal to "josh"...i'm sure he (or she) is dedicated.

then i can question why "Josh" is special.

It's just Josh, no quotes necessary. Unless he deems it so. I wish Josh and I were BFFs, like we are in my head

I think the fact that Carsland is, as many have speculated over the past few months, going to be scaled down to possibly just Radiator Springs, to make way for the Star Wars Land replacing the Backlot, then I would think that the Monsters Inc coaster could still go into Soundstage 1 next to Toy Story.

I like everything you just said

 

[disneyworld1977]

As with all these posts about announcements and HS expansion, I have stated it before and I know some would agree, maybe!

No Cars Land at HS. Expand Pixar Place. Yes, maybe RSR from DCA, but not the whole Cars Land.

Star Wars Land. Obvious to me!

Get rid of the Hat.

There are my three "simple" suggestions, although the first two contain many things within.

 

[Echo7Solo]

I suspect the financial terms are such that USF is in no hurry to terminate the deal. It would cost them a lot of money to re-theme that area of the park and they would be losing access to a line of characters which have never been more popular.

Meanwhile, Universal's licensing only applies east of the Mississippi. Disney has every right to add Marvel characters to the two parks in Disneyland and others around the world. I think that's exactly what we will see them do.

Fox and Sony have the rights to FF, Spider-Man, X-Men, Dare Devil and Blade (I think) as long as they keep making movies every few years. I could see Disney allowing them to update and keep those few and allow the rest to come to WDW as long as they don't show any signs of the others.

If not the only ride that would be hard to change would be Spiderman. Most of the rest needs a face lift to start with. If Disney won't let them update then it will grow stale.

 

[tjkraz]

Fox and Sony have the rights to FF, Spider-Man, X-Men, Dare Devil and Blade (I think) as long as they keep making movies every few years.

Daredevil rights reverted back to Disney. I believe that happened on 10/31/12.

Not sure about Blade. But agree with the others--film rights are owned by other studios as long as they continue to make movies at agreed-upon intervals.

I could see Disney allowing them to update and keep those few and allow the rest to come to WDW as long as they don't show any signs of the others.

If not the only ride that would be hard to change would be Spiderman. Most of the rest needs a face lift to start with. If Disney won't let them update then it will grow stale.

Keeping the Marvel Island at IOA current is definitely a concern for Universal. They cannot make any substantial improvements or changes without Disney's approval.

But with that major stipulation, the ball is really in Universal's court. Disney doesn't have to "allow" them to do anything based upon the information we have available. The agreement between Marvel and Universal is public--with dollar amounts removed--via SEC filings. It's been linked and dissected in older threads on this board.

By all appearances, Universal can continue to renew the agreement indefinitely with Disney / Marvel having little recourse.

To Disney, this means a steady revenue stream from the Marvel characters without spending a single dime to build or maintain attractions. Disney is a pretty big fan of getting money for nothing, so they may be in no hurry to terminate the USF agreement. If they were to wrest the rights away from USF, Disney loses that licensing and merchandise revenue and then would have to spend hundreds-of-millions to build its own Marvel presence in the WDW parks.

On the surface it may seem odd for Disney to be in bed with a competitor in this manner, but there's no question it's a profitable arrangement for DIS.

If you're Universal, you have some of the most popular film franchises in recent memory under contract. To even consider terminating the agreement, USF would want Disney to write a big fat check. And that money would probably go toward converting the Marvel areas of the park into Harry Potter or some other competition for WDW.

I don't think USF has to worry about Marvel Island being stale or outdated for many years to come. In the meantime, they'll ride the popularity of Avengers, X-Men and Spider-Man through dozens of film sequels. That is, unless Disney wants to write a 9-figure check and effectively foot the bill for Harry Potter Phase 3.

 

[pilferk]

Isn't Universal going to be owing royalties to Disney soon? that's what I've heard from a CM friend. And after that happens, they'll either need to change the theme of the attractions or keep them as they are & pay the royalties. If they choose the latter Disney could buy them out eventually!

Couple things (and I point this out from time to time, as this thread of conversation bubbles up):

1) Universals agreement with Marvel (and now Disney) is basically in perpetuity. There is no end, unless Universal either fails to pay Marvel it's annual (probably paid quarterly) fees/merch % or fails to keep the attractions to a certain (defined) standard of upkeep. Neither of those is likely to happen because it's no different than what they've been doing since the contract was signed. I suspect (though that portion of the agreement is left out of the public filings) that the fee schedule is quite reasonable, and simply tied to inflation. In other words...Uni isn't paying much more (today dollars vs yesterday dollars) than they were at the outset of the agreement AND the IPs have certainly increased in value in that time frame. And there is really nothing Disney can do about it unless if finds Uni in breach. You can bet there are a couple dozen Uni lawyers with billable hours stacking up to make sure that Uni doesn't do ANYTHING to breach that contract (just as there are likely a gaggle of Disney lawyers eagle eying for any apparent breach by Uni).

2) Disney's only chance to get Uni to "let go" would be to back a couple dozen dump trucks full of cash up to the uni loading dock. Not stock. Not media considerations/trades. Cash. Uni would likely want something close to a billion from Disney (the initial cost to develop the attractions in today's dollars, the cost to RE-develop that area, the lost revenue from having the area closed while the redevelopment happens, and a princely premium just to consider/do it all) to "let go". Yes, billion (with a B).

3) Disney can pay that money, PLUS pay the money to actually develop the IPs on their property OR they can sit back, do nothing, and just collect the checks from Universal. Also consider the time factor, too. You pay Uni that billion, stop earning money from them, AND now have to take the time to develop on you property. You're likely not only shelling out close to a billion dollars, plus another 300 to 500 million (or more) for development, you're now LOSING 18 to 36 months of revenue from Uni before you open your attractions and see any significant revenue from them. That's a lot of ducats missing from Scrooge McDucks vault. So, one of those options is a LOT easier to justify to your stockholders than the other. It's probably not going to be what the Disney fans would LIKE to see...but it's the one the business people are going to pretty much demand.

Someday, maybe, down the line, when Uni wants to develope WWOHP part 8, they might be strapped for land and decide to evict the Marvel heroes from IOA. Someday, maybe, those attractions (esp Hulk and Spidey) will look worn out and won't offer value to IOA and it's guests. But I suspect that day is a LONG way away. They can't build anything really new (but they can refresh/refurb), but then they don't really need to for awhile. I mean...Jurrasic Park and Toon Lagoon are going to benefit from refreshing/redevelopment LONG before Marvel Island will need it.

Given Uni's exclusivity is only east of the Mississippi...there's a chance you see something at DL. I'm still not convinced they'll go hog wild out there, just to avoid some of the brand confusion that could crop up. But they COULD.

 

[pilferk]

Fox and Sony have the rights to FF, Spider-Man, X-Men, Dare Devil and Blade (I think) as long as they keep making movies every few years. I could see Disney allowing them to update and keep those few and allow the rest to come to WDW as long as they don't show any signs of the others.

Those are film making rites. NOT theme park attraction rites.

Very big difference that has nothing to do with each other, FYI. I point that out because you say "allow the rest to come to WDW"...but Walt Disney World has no bearing on your point.

Oh...and the Daredevil film rites already went back to Marvel (Disney).

If not the only ride that would be hard to change would be Spiderman. Most of the rest needs a face lift to start with. If Disney won't let them update then it will grow stale.

They can refresh/refurb (as they did with the Spidey projection changes a year or so ago), but they can't build new without Marvel (Disney) approval...which they won't get.

BUT, the agreement is also very clear about something: Not only the characters (Hulk, Storm, Dr. Doom, Capt. America, Spiderman, etc.) are "exclusive" to Uni/IOA. But their "families, groups, and rogues gallery" (I'm paraphrasing a bit) are also singled out in the contract. In other words...having a Hulk coaster means no Avengers at WDW. If you look at the intricate web (no Spidey pun intended) of the character interactions at IOA...really, there's not much meat on the bone for Disney to pick at for WDW.

 

[Spacedog1975]

A lot of Marvel talk, but it seems the easiest property to leverage right now would be Star Wars. Or perhaps Pixar. Marvel being the most complicated - I would not hold my breath.

 

[pilferk]

A lot of Marvel talk, but it seems the easiest property to leverage right now would be Star Wars. Or perhaps Pixar. Marvel being the most complicated - I would not hold my breath.

Agree 100%.

IF there is any sort of announcement coming (and I'm largely of lockoutlogic's mind on this), it's probably Star Wars.

I think, before the purchase of Lucas, there might have been some inkling of bringing CarsLand to DHS. I think buying Lucas was a game changer. If theyr'e doing anything (and I still think that's a big "IF"), my bet would be on that.

 

[Echo7Solo]

I don't think USF has to worry about Marvel Island being stale or outdated for many years to come. In the meantime, they'll ride the popularity of Avengers, X-Men and Spider-Man through dozens of film sequels. That is, unless Disney wants to write a 9-figure check and effectively foot the bill for Harry Potter Phase 3.

I don't know. I don't think Potter has the lasting power of Marvel. It can go on pretty much forever. The Potter books/movies are over. As for Marvel Island being stale and outdated... it is now. The only thing it has going for it is Spider-Man. The rest are 6 Flags rides at best and outdated versions of Cap, Wolverine and the X-Men (Spider-Man doesn't change much but that costume is still dated to an extent)

 

[tjkraz]

In case anyone is keeping score...there was no announcement on May 1st. Major or otherwise.

Carry on.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

In case anyone is keeping score...there was no announcement on May 1st. Major or otherwise.

Carry on.

Oh...some of us are definitely noticing...

Still have a couple of weeks left in the month before I order the artillery to open fire on Cemetery Ridge for General Pickett.

Somebody better let Josh of the "super factual Disney employee insider blog" know so he can recheck with MK custodial and confirm that the billion dollar expansion announcement is this month.

After just getting back this week - I'm more convinced than ever that they are more than content to sit back and just keep on keeping on with the unpopular avatar work and the downtown Disney "screw up reclamation" project.

Anybody want my review of fantasyland?
I'm guessing not

 

[ChipnDale79]

Oh...some of us are definitely noticing...

Still have a couple of weeks left in the month before I order the artillery to open fire on Cemetery Ridge for General Pickett.

Somebody better let Josh of the "super factual Disney employee insider blog" know so he can recheck with MK custodial and confirm that the billion dollar expansion announcement is this month.

After just getting back this week - I'm more convinced than ever that they are more than content to sit back and just keep on keeping on with the unpopular avatar work and the downtown Disney "screw up reclamation" project.

Anybody want my review of fantasyland?
I'm guessing not

I haven't been, but I have heard less than stellar reviews, I'd love to hear your opinion on it.

 

[mm1971]

Oh...some of us are definitely noticing...

Still have a couple of weeks left in the month before I order the artillery to open fire on Cemetery Ridge for General Pickett.

Somebody better let Josh of the "super factual Disney employee insider blog" know so he can recheck with MK custodial and confirm that the billion dollar expansion announcement is this month.

After just getting back this week - I'm more convinced than ever that they are more than content to sit back and just keep on keeping on with the unpopular avatar work and the downtown Disney "screw up reclamation" project.

Anybody want my review of fantasyland?
I'm guessing not

ummm.....sure let's here it! I'm heading there in August and would love to hear all opinions.

 

[tjkraz]

After just getting back this week - I'm more convinced than ever that they are more than content to sit back and just keep on keeping on with the unpopular avatar work and the downtown Disney "screw up reclamation" project.

Given the financial results they announced a couple weeks ago, it's hard to argue otherwise. All recent park additions are very modest. Discounts are drying up. Yet profits are up dramatically. Where is the incentive to build more?

The Snow White coaster is still nearly a year away. Then Disney will probably fill a couple years with small-scale improvements as they have been lately: new restaurants (paid for by the occupying vendors), parade tweaks, fireworks tweaks, virtual games, virtual queues, DVC resorts, etc.

I do think Avatar will happen and Hollywood Studios will get some enhancement, but the finances of those projects will be VERY carefully measured / managed / scrutinized. With each day that passes I find it harder to believe they will spend $700 million on a Cars Land clone, particularly given the impact of fickle Florida weather on the Radiator Springs Racers ride system (see: Test Track problems.)

And if something is announced for both DHS and DAK, it will be a good 4-5 years before the additions are complete.

Anybody want my review of fantasyland?
I'm guessing not

I was underwhelmed.

It's very nice to look at...and will be better when the mine coaster is complete. But the Belle cottage show was a one-and-done for our family. Kids are 12 & 10 and were bored throughout. Only way we even got them to do it was by keeping the show I secret. If I had told them it was a play where audience members act out B&TB, they never would have set foot in the queue.

Ariel's Undersea Adventures is a ride I'd been on a dozen times at DCA. It's OK, but overall a pointless carbon copy addition for the MK.

Bottom line: you look at everything they added and can't help but shake your head, thinking "this is the best they could do with a half billion dollars?!?"

 

[twebber55]

Avatar 2017

Carsland 2018 according to OTPN

 

[dairylives]

Oh...some of us are definitely noticing...

Still have a couple of weeks left in the month before I order the artillery to open fire on Cemetery Ridge for General Pickett.

Somebody better let Josh of the "super factual Disney employee insider blog" know so he can recheck with MK custodial and confirm that the billion dollar expansion announcement is this month.

After just getting back this week - I'm more convinced than ever that they are more than content to sit back and just keep on keeping on with the unpopular avatar work and the downtown Disney "screw up reclamation" project.

Anybody want my review of fantasyland?
I'm guessing not

Watch what you say about Avatarland! the defenders will come out of the woodwork to attack you, and you don't want to be called a "hater"