DECISION TIME! Why I'm prob going to pass on buying into DVC

[DizBub]

They is a seperate line item on the DVC bill. I deduct them from my taxes just like my property tax at home.

I do too.

 

[LisaS]

What do you mean deduct the allowable part of MF? Are the property taxes separately billed for dvc? Otherwise, none of it is tax-deductible unless you rent out and reduce your taxable income by the expenses?

This article suggests that provided the property taxes are either directly billed to you or separately stated on your maintenance fee billing, they are deductible. DVC has a line item for the actual property tax paid on the annual dues bill.

 

[ELMC]

On the contrary...people who analyze #'s like this are more likely to drive whatever they want and live in a $500,000 house. It's smart to analyze all this when making a large, long term purchase. People who buy based on feelings are the ones who struggle eventually.

You are continuing to get yourself into trouble when you make these broad generalizations without any support. Furthermore, you completely misinterpreted my comment. Your analysis, while technically correct, did not account for taxes on investment gains and the tax deductibility of the property tax portion of the maintenance fees as a previous poster had said. That is what I was speaking to when I said that none of the analyses we see on here are complete. Example...there is the possibility that investing the money and renting instead of buying DVC could actually lead to investment income that places you in a higher tax bracket, thus costing you extra money in taxes on your earned income. I have yet to see a DVC purchase analysis that accounted for that, and I don't think I would want to.

 

[Dean]

On the contrary...people who analyze #'s like this are more likely to drive whatever they want and live in a $500,000 house. It's smart to analyze all this when making a large, long term purchase. People who buy based on feelings are the ones who struggle eventually.

I think it's smart to analyze any such purchase but I'd contend that "garbage in, garbage out" applies here. I'd also quibble with the idea that those who do such analysis are likely to be more successful. I'd suggest that it's the quality of the analysis and then the correct actions that make some successful, not the effort alone. I've seen FAR too many here and elsewhere overanalyze and make assumptions that end up being unreasonable. Some such assumptions (IMO) are assuming a 7% long term rise in room costs, that MF will be limited to 3% on average long term and comparing to DVC rack rates as their basis of comparison. I think another big mistake some make is assuming DVC is the best timeshare for them, often it isn't. While there are exceptions, I think most analysis is done trying to justify a purchase rather than looking at it objectively. I think DVC rarely saves people money because people tend to spend any extra money anyway, but it MAY give you more for your money or it may not.

Currently I think the most costly mistakes are buying retail, esp buying more points to use for cash type exchanges than one would need otherwise. I also feel many underestimate the value of their up front costs looked at long term over time.

 

[elfbo]

Anyone else see the op ask about buying a contract from a member in another thread? Looks like they changed their mind! Not that i mind at all because ive gone back and forth on the issue myself. But ultimately decided that is is worth it for my family.

 

[theguda]

Anyone else see the op ask about buying a contract from a member in another thread? Looks like they changed their mind! Not that i mind at all because ive gone back and forth on the issue myself. But ultimately decided that is is worth it for my family.

I've said multiple times that buying a small contract would be worthwhile since you'd gain the small benefits of owning at a low cost point. I don't know why my making an offer on a 50 point contract would be a surprise...but I'm glad so many are interested and following my posts.

 

[ELMC]

I've said multiple times that buying a small contract would be worthwhile since you'd gain the small benefits of owning at a low cost point. I don't know why my making an offer on a 50 point contract would be a surprise...but I'm glad so many are interested and following my posts.

If it makes you feel better, I remember that this was your thinking when I saw that post. What I do find interesting is that you dismiss long term guaranteed benefits of ownership, but you seem to have no problem paying a premium on a small contract to benefit from non guaranteed perks that can be modified or taken away at any time.

 

[Fignewtons]

Good-day community.

Just joined and thought I would weigh in a few thoughts. I am in the process of putting some offers on some resales and jump into this ownership thing called DVC. My spouse and I looked at this for years, but feel now is a financially safe time for us to do it, even though our children are mature teenagers.

I have read many posts on the financial consideration of ownership. I struggle with many of these opinions my self. I like to equate it to the comment about a vehicle. Buying a timeshare is expensive, and does have maintenance. But so many people in the world just spend 30-50k on a vehicle without a second thought and it depreciates like mad. I know many owners of cottages, and yes, there is a real estate investment, but the cost and headache to maintain is quite expensive.

To me ownership is something you need to be able to afford, and plain and simply want (just like you want that BMW SUV). I did not do a single calculation on whether I should own or buy an RRSP, these are two different lines of thought. I put money away into a pension, and for this I am buying some 'fun' to add to my life. The only financial consideration that I am doing the math on, is how much I should start with, and then work towards adding on, so I do not accumulate debt.

I also looked at the rental option, but I guess I am more of a buy person. To me and my spouse, this is exciting to own and plan a trip a few times a year. I don't think it will ever make sense financially, but I do not think it will be total money down the drain like blowing 10k at a casino. There is value in ownership.

I am awaiting an offer going through and then the ROFR process, and then I am going to vacation the heck out of Disney and start to slow down from my job a little.

It is not a financial choice to us, its a 'want' to add a different quality to our lifestyle and a change.

I want to thank all those who contribute on these boards and how much information it has given us... it has been great.

We are staying in a SSR rental in May and hope to own for our anniversary trip in October.

Good luck in your decision. I know it was a long one for us.

Doug J
(for all those great white northers) - how's it going eh?
ps. sounds like a good buy with 2012 points, I would be interested in it?

 

[disfanforlife]

Good-day community.

Just joined and thought I would weigh in a few thoughts. I am in the process of putting some offers on some resales and jump into this ownership thing called DVC. My spouse and I looked at this for years, but feel now is a financially safe time for us to do it, even though our children are mature teenagers.

I have read many posts on the financial consideration of ownership. I struggle with many of these opinions my self. I like to equate it to the comment about a vehicle. Buying a timeshare is expensive, and does have maintenance. But so many people in the world just spend 30-50k on a vehicle without a second thought and it depreciates like mad. I know many owners of cottages, and yes, there is a real estate investment, but the cost and headache to maintain is quite expensive.

To me ownership is something you need to be able to afford, and plain and simply want (just like you want that BMW SUV). I did not do a single calculation on whether I should own or buy an RRSP, these are two different lines of thought. I put money away into a pension, and for this I am buying some 'fun' to add to my life. The only financial consideration that I am doing the math on, is how much I should start with, and then work towards adding on, so I do not accumulate debt.

I also looked at the rental option, but I guess I am more of a buy person. To me and my spouse, this is exciting to own and plan a trip a few times a year. I don't think it will ever make sense financially, but I do not think it will be total money down the drain like blowing 10k at a casino. There is value in ownership.

I am awaiting an offer going through and then the ROFR process, and then I am going to vacation the heck out of Disney and start to slow down from my job a little.

It is not a financial choice to us, its a 'want' to add a different quality to our lifestyle and a change.

I want to thank all those who contribute on these boards and how much information it has given us... it has been great.

We are staying in a SSR rental in May and hope to own for our anniversary trip in October.

Good luck in your decision. I know it was a long one for us.

Doug J
(for all those great white northers) - how's it going eh?

Agree with everything you have said. This why we own too. And as a fellow northerner (very close to Canada) - I am glad that the snow is finally gone!

 

[tjkraz]

If it makes you feel better, I remember that this was your thinking when I saw that post. What I do find interesting is that you dismiss long term guaranteed benefits of ownership, but you seem to have no problem paying a premium on a small contract to benefit from non guaranteed perks that can be modified or taken away at any time.

Agree.

I also find it curious that the original post purported to tackle the buy/don't buy question almost entirely from a financial perspective, and yet OP has failed to respond to any of the criticism of his calculations.

 

[Minniesgal]

Good-day community.

Just joined and thought I would weigh in a few thoughts. I am in the process of putting some offers on some resales and jump into this ownership thing called DVC. My spouse and I looked at this for years, but feel now is a financially safe time for us to do it, even though our children are mature teenagers.

I have read many posts on the financial consideration of ownership. I struggle with many of these opinions my self. I like to equate it to the comment about a vehicle. Buying a timeshare is expensive, and does have maintenance. But so many people in the world just spend 30-50k on a vehicle without a second thought and it depreciates like mad. I know many owners of cottages, and yes, there is a real estate investment, but the cost and headache to maintain is quite expensive.

To me ownership is something you need to be able to afford, and plain and simply want (just like you want that BMW SUV). I did not do a single calculation on whether I should own or buy an RRSP, these are two different lines of thought. I put money away into a pension, and for this I am buying some 'fun' to add to my life. The only financial consideration that I am doing the math on, is how much I should start with, and then work towards adding on, so I do not accumulate debt.

I also looked at the rental option, but I guess I am more of a buy person. To me and my spouse, this is exciting to own and plan a trip a few times a year. I don't think it will ever make sense financially, but I do not think it will be total money down the drain like blowing 10k at a casino. There is value in ownership.

I am awaiting an offer going through and then the ROFR process, and then I am going to vacation the heck out of Disney and start to slow down from my job a little.

It is not a financial choice to us, its a 'want' to add a different quality to our lifestyle and a change.

I want to thank all those who contribute on these boards and how much information it has given us... it has been great.

We are staying in a SSR rental in May and hope to own for our anniversary trip in October.

Good luck in your decision. I know it was a long one for us.

Doug J
(for all those great white northers) - how's it going eh?
ps. sounds like a good buy with 2012 points, I would be interested in it?

So very well said, you don't buy a timeshare because it is a financially sound decision. You buy a timeshare because you can afford to, and by getting the best deal you can, after making those sound financial decisions in the other areas of you life and you do it because heck everyone needs to live a little!

 

[bighoo93]

I think it's smart to analyze any such purchase but I'd contend that "garbage in, garbage out" applies here.

I think this point is so important it is worth repeating for emphasis. If someone doesn't use reasonable assumptions, their analysis is going to be misleading. Nobody else pays for this except the one making the decision. I see no benefit to telling people that they could or could not make their numbers work or whatever. So ultimately, using reasonable assumptions, maybe a range of possibilities, is the only way to make an analysis worthwhile.

I've learned that people buy into DVC for all kinds of reasons and expectations. Many don't make any sense to me, but that's OK because it isn't my purchase. For me, I knew we were planning to vacation regularly at Disney and stay in DVC or similar facilities. I didn't need to buy DVC to do this, I could rent points or do cash reservation. So the entire decision came down to whether I could save money on this lodging by buying DVC. Other people have different considerations, but for me, it was all about whether this would cost less than renting. When people say things like "you can't save money with DVC" or "nobody saves money buying DVC" or "DVC is a bad financial decision for almost everyone", I know they either haven't seriously looked at it or are making bad assumptions. It is possible that for their own situations it doesn't work out. But to believe that is true for everyone is inaccurate and almost certainly reflects your point that if you put garbage in, you'll get garbage out.

 

[bighoo93]

So very well said, you don't buy a timeshare because it is a financially sound decision.

I do. I could stay at WDW and even all the DVC resorts if I wanted to without buying DVC. If it weren't a financially sound decision, I wouldn't have done it. I realize others have different considerations but for me it was all about saving money on lodging over the long run.

 

[Minniesgal]

I do. I could stay at WDW and even all the DVC resorts if I wanted to without buying DVC. If it weren't a financially sound decision, I wouldn't have done it. I realize others have different considerations but for me it was all about saving money on lodging over the long run.

what i meant was you don't go on holiday to save money, you stay at home

 

[ptlohmysoul]

I do too.

This article suggests that provided the property taxes are either directly billed to you or separately stated on your maintenance fee billing, they are deductible. DVC has a line item for the actual property tax paid on the annual dues bill.

They is a seperate line item on the DVC bill. I deduct them from my taxes just like my property tax at home.

Can anyone share the tax amount per point (and which dvc)? Or direct me to where this info. can be found for each dvc property? TIA!

 

[vicki_c]

Are you an owner? It's on the annual dues statement you received at the beginning of the year. Shows what you paid as estimated last year and what actuals were, and credits you the difference (usually it seems to go that way, but not always of course).

 

[LisaS]

Can anyone share the tax amount per point (and which dvc)? Or direct me to where this info. can be found for each dvc property? TIA!

If you no longer have your dues bill, log in to the DVC member site. Look up your dues statement online. The 2012 Actual Property Tax amounts you paid are listed for each resort you own right on your statement.

I listed the step by step instructions in this post: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=47193674

and also here: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=47335367

 

[CarolynFH]

Wow. I've been following this thread off and on since the beginning, and it's starting to remind me of the infamous "emu leg" thread that was forcibly retired years ago.

I'm so glad we bought 15 years ago when there were only two resorts to choose from, we didn't know anything about the resale market, and we didn't feel that we needed to do a formal financial analysis. All we knew was that we had come to WDW for 4 years in a row, it was obvious to us that we were going to come every year for many more years, DS and DD were getting to be too old for all four of us to share one hotel room, even at the Poly, in comfort, and hotel rates were rising every year. That made the decision very easy, and DVC is the best purchase we ever made for our family. Looking forward to bringing DGD (5) for her first trip in January!

 

[bighoo93]

Wow. I've been following this thread off and on since the beginning, and it's starting to remind me of the infamous "emu leg" thread that was forcibly retired years ago.

I wasn't around for that, but it was worth the googling!

 

[ptlohmysoul]

Are you an owner? It's on the annual dues statement you received at the beginning of the year. Shows what you paid as estimated last year and what actuals were, and credits you the difference (usually it seems to go that way, but not always of course).

If you no longer have your dues bill, log in to the DVC member site. Look up your dues statement online. The 2012 Actual Property Tax amounts you paid are listed for each resort you own right on your statement.

I listed the step by step instructions in this post: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=47193674

and also here: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=47335367

No, I'm not an owner, but looking for more reasons to buy in /waiting for it to be financially viable for us.