How are points allocated?

[mjc2003]

For our trip in October, the points are low and the availability is already tight...but we just looked into a last minute late April trip and the points are quite high, and we can basically get a 1br anywhere for the entire week, except for BCV. So I was just curious, why would such a dead time be so expensive?

 

[AirGoofy]

For our trip in October, the points are low and the availability is already tight...but we just looked into a last minute late April trip and the points are quite high, and we can basically get a 1br anywhere for the entire week, except for BCV. So I was just curious, why would such a dead time be so expensive?

You are attempting to unwrap the magical mind of DVC - good luck.

Maybe someone who was there in the beginning can let us know. I'm sure F&W started as an attempt to increase attendance to WDW in October. Maybe that was why the point charts had them as well. March/April are Spring Break months and Easter, in which a lot of people are already going WDW, which removes the need for a lower point incentive.

 

[DenLo]

October is busy for DVC resorts:

• Because it's cheaper points
  
• It's Food and Wine, F&W race, and MNSSHP
  
• Jersey week invasion of WDW of NJ teachers and families that are out of school for a teacher's convention.

I agree with AirGoofy that F&W items came about to fill up all of the WDW resorts (cash and DVC) and DVC members just take advantage of all the situations. We like to stretch our points as far as possible. But many members are restricted to when school is out. Others can take advantage of the low point dates.

 

[disneynutz]

I don't really understand why we have different point seasons. Why not make all dates the same, when the place is booked, it's booked.

Bill

 

[Chuck S]

DVC has point seasons like many point based timeshares, for the same reasons there are different season at cash resorts. To try to balance demand and occupancy. Don;t you imagine that that the DVC resorts would sit empty in early January if the points were the same as the are at Christmas and Thanksgiving week? It certainly wouldn't be much of a selling point when prospective owners would wonder why the cash rooms are often heavily discounted certain times of the year, but DVC points are the same year round.

 

[disneynutz]

DVC has point seasons like many point based timeshares, for the same reasons there are different season at cash resorts. To try to balance demand and occupancy. Don;t you imagine that that the DVC resorts would sit empty in early January if the points were the same as the are at Christmas and Thanksgiving week? It certainly wouldn't be much of a selling point when prospective owners would wonder why the cash rooms are often heavily discounted certain times of the year, but DVC points are the same year round.

Since DVC owners have to use their points or forfeit them, I wouldn't think that there would be empty rooms same as now. The popular vacations times would fill up first, then the shoulder periods and finally the least popular times.

I also don't understand increasing the required points for a stay at THV and DVC using the reason that they are popular so they had to be increased. When they are booked, they are booked and members can try next time.

Bill

 

[bobbiwoz]

October is busy for DVC resorts:

• Because it's cheaper points
  
• It's Food and Wine, F&W race, and MNSSHP
  
• Jersey week invasion of WDW of NJ teachers and families that are out of school for a teacher's convention.

I agree with AirGoofy that F&W items came about to fill up all of the WDW resorts (cash and DVC) and DVC members just take advantage of all the situations. We like to stretch our points as far as possible. But many members are restricted to when school is out. Others can take advantage of the low point dates.

FYI Jersey week is in November.

 

[mjc2003]

Thank you all for the responses, perhaps I didn't phrase my question properly. I understand why the fall is popular, and I'm not sure the lower points are as much a driving factor as is peoples desire to escape somewhere warmer when most of the country gets colder--I guess it's a chicken-or-the-egg thing, and that's not really my question.
My question is, why are the points at the end of April treated as a peak season when clearly it isn't; one look at availability shows that less than 2 months out you can stay almost wherever you want. So are the points allocations not dynamic enough? I would assume this is a carryover from years past when Easter fell later in April? But this year most breaks are done by April 8th, and after that rates at most resorts react accordingly.

One look at another timeshare rental site shows that people are giving away weeks at the end of April. But DVC is charging a premium for a week at WDW when very few people are coming. I just find it curious. I guess the response will be, "do you want them to change the point allocations yearly?" Well, yes I guess I would, because treating quiet times like the week I'm referencing like it's a holiday (points-wise) surely dissuades others, and drives more traffic to the lower points seasons.

I guess I would agree to an extent with the poster who said to make all weeks the same. I would amend that by raising the points for certain weeks, maybe Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc..., but realistically the spread doesn't make sense. There's little argument to be made that (in DVC terms) the end of April will be busier than October, but it's priced like the demand is 25% higher. Odd. Does DVC actually want rooms empty for entire stretches because they've priced owners out? Because in it's simplest terms, that's what they're doing (as dictated by availability).

 

[Chuck S]

Thank you all for the responses, perhaps I didn't phrase my question properly. I understand why the fall is popular, and I'm not sure the lower points are as much a driving factor as is peoples desire to escape somewhere warmer when most of the country gets colder--I guess it's a chicken-or-the-egg thing, and that's not really my question.
My question is, why are the points at the end of April treated as a peak season when clearly it isn't; one look at availability shows that less than 2 months out you can stay almost wherever you want. So are the points allocations not dynamic enough? I would assume this is a carryover from years past when Easter fell later in April? But this year most breaks are done by April 8th, and after that rates at most resorts react accordingly.

One look at another timeshare rental site shows that people are giving away weeks at the end of April. But DVC is charging a premium for a week at WDW when very few people are coming. I just find it curious. I guess the response will be, "do you want them to change the point allocations yearly?" Well, yes I guess I would, because treating quiet times like the week I'm referencing like it's a holiday (points-wise) surely dissuades others, and drives more traffic to the lower points seasons.

I guess I would agree to an extent with the poster who said to make all weeks the same. I would amend that by raising the points for certain weeks, maybe Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc..., but realistically the spread doesn't make sense. There's little argument to be made that (in DVC terms) the end of April will be busier than October, but it's priced like the demand is 25% higher. Odd. Does DVC actually want rooms empty for entire stretches because they've priced owners out? Because in it's simplest terms, that's what they're doing (as dictated by availability).

They do change the point allocation annually, based upon when Easter and Thanksgiving holidays fall in a given year.

The week leading up and the week following Easter are always Premier season, the rest of March and April are in Magic season. As to why those weeks are in Magic season, it is likely for a few reasons. Spring Break weeks vary around the country and also during those times in March and April many older people or those with very young families who are not yet in school travel to avoid the harsh Nothern winters, unlike in January when Florida may also experience a cold freeze. It may also be a peak travel season for people in other countries. Disney World, unlike offsite resorts, is a worldwide travel destination. Most foreign travelers will stay onsite rather than offsite in an area with which they may not be familiar.

Originally, the point charts were based on what Disney had ample data and lot of experience to support, the travel patterns of their cash resorts in Florida. If hose travel patters also did not hold true to some degree for DVC travel over the last 20 years, the charts would have been changed some time ago...just as they tried to adjust weekends a few years back. But they have backed off some of those changes and the charts look a little more like the originals now. The seasons are not quite as lop-sided as they were pre-1996.

I mean, there must be some demand for late April if that is when you are traveling. Why do you travel at that time of year? March and April are for the most part, some of the best times weather-wise for the Orlando area. Late May/Early June can already be getting quite warm . I think the only reason for people to travel in July and August, a very hot and humid time of year in Florida, is because of school schedules. March and April are also convention seasons for many businesses and organizations.

 

[mjc2003]

I mean, there must be some demand for late April if that is when you are traveling. Why do you travel at that time of year? March and April are for the most part, some of the best times weather-wise for the Orlando area. Late May/Early June can already be getting quite warm . I think the only reason for people to travel in July and August, a very hot and humid time of year in Florida, is because of school schedules. March and April are also convention seasons for many businesses and organizations.[/QUOTE]

We never travel in late April or early May, this is a total anomaly. While you make excellent points as to why this should be a busy time, the proof bu way of availability shows that it's not a busy time. So my question is why are the points allocated to reflect a premium when there is no premium on demand. Maybe there's no answer to the question. I am juxtaposing this scenario against that which I'm familiar, namely traveling in the fall, when points are low and demand is quite high. Something seems out of balance.

 

[hakepb]

I don't really understand why we have different point seasons. Why not make all dates the same, when the place is booked, it's booked.

Bill

That would discriminate against people with fewer points and favor owners with more points.

I think there are a number of people on the low side that have just enough points for a few days in a value season. Remove the seasons,?they'd only get one day.

 

[hakepb]

I mean, there must be some demand for late April if that is when you are traveling. Why do you travel at that time of year? March and April are for the most part, some of the best times weather-wise for the Orlando area. Late May/Early June can already be getting quite warm . I think the only reason for people to travel in July and August, a very hot and humid time of year in Florida, is because of school schedules. March and April are also convention seasons for many businesses and organizations.

We never travel in late April or early May, this is a total anomaly. While you make excellent points as to why this should be a busy time, the proof bu way of availability shows that it's not a busy time. So my question is why are the points allocated to reflect a premium when there is no premium on demand. Maybe there's no answer to the question. I am juxtaposing this scenario against that which I'm familiar, namely traveling in the fall, when points are low and demand is quite high. Something seems out of balance.[/QUOTE]

April and October have similiar temperatures, but October has a greater liklihood of hurricanes.

But, people prefer October to late April, because Disney Parks have manufactured demand in October with MNSSHP and more importantly, F&W. overall, I'm not sure DVC should adjust points based on Disney Parks promotions that could be cancelled any year.

I think Disney Parks realizes the F&W demand is out of rack compared to Flower and Garden in April... This year food and drink is being added, including ....,Dole Whips with spiced rum
http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/tag/dole-whip-with-rum/

 

[mjc2003]

April and October have similiar temperatures, but October has a greater liklihood of hurricanes.

But, people prefer October to late April, because Disney Parks have manufactured demand in October with MNSSHP and more importantly, F&W. overall, I'm not sure DVC should adjust points based on Disney Parks promotions that could be cancelled any year.

That sort of makes my point. If people prefer October to late April, why isn't April priced accordingly?

I don't agree that MNSSHP and F&W fall into the category of "promotions that could be cancelled any year". I think they are clearly more stable than spring break times and Easter week, which are moving targets. I think the reality is that they didn't change the points to reflect these moving holidays, but they should if they want to make point costs equitable vis a vis demand.

Not to beat a dead horse, but here is my point. I can get 7 nights end of April at AKV, SSR, OKW, BWV, VWL and BLT (6 of 7 actually). Only BCV is booked all but 2 of the nights in question. Yet the points are appreciably higher than in October....BUT....right NOW I couldn't get nearly the same availability in October, yet that's 7+ months away.

So if a hotel had plenty of rooms available one week and they were asking $500 a night, but a different week they were asking only $300 a night but were booked months in advance, would we call this a sound pricing strategy or a poorly conceived allocation?

 

[drusba]

The seasonal point differences at WDW actually resemble what were considered the high to lower demand times of Disney in general when DVC first started. Mid-Feb through April was the spring break time. October then, which was long before Food & Wine was created and before Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party became an event that happened regularly throughout the month, was a low demand time. Disney (WDW) itself has had a shift -- e.g., October is much more busier and its season was changed to regular season from value for determining nightly rates.

From the beginning, DVC differed from Disney because you had more making decisions on when to go based on points required than season but today it is substantially different; in general end of Sep through Marathon weekend in Jan is DVC's high season and the rest of the year regular to lower season including holidays from mid-Jan through most of Sep. The factors that have contributed to that shift include Food & Wine, the lower points required, and also includes a shift in the age of the owner population in that many who bought in the 90s when they were tied to kid's school schedules no longer have to follow those schedules.

 

[hakepb]

That sort of makes my point. If people prefer October to late April, why isn't April priced accordingly?

I don't agree that MNSSHP and F&W fall into the category of "promotions that could be cancelled any year". I think they are clearly more stable than spring break times and Easter week, which are moving targets. I think the reality is that they didn't change the points to reflect these moving holidays, but they should if they want to make point costs equitable vis a vis demand.

Not to beat a dead horse, but here is my point. I can get 7 nights end of April at AKV, SSR, OKW, BWV, VWL and BLT (6 of 7 actually). Only BCV is booked all but 2 of the nights in question. Yet the points are appreciably higher than in October....BUT....right NOW I couldn't get nearly the same availability in October, yet that's 7+ months away.

So if a hotel had plenty of rooms available one week and they were asking $500 a night, but a different week they were asking only $300 a night but were booked months in advance, would we call this a sound pricing strategy or a poorly conceived allocation?

Or, I guess follow the money. DVC probably has an easier time selling BWV points because October is high demand.

 

[Deb & Bill]

April has better weather. October is still hurricane season.

 

[mjc2003]

The seasonal point differences at WDW actually resemble what were considered the high to lower demand times of Disney in general when DVC first started. Mid-Feb through April was the spring break time. October then, which was long before Food & Wine was created and before Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party became an event that happened regularly throughout the month, was a low demand time. Disney (WDW) itself has had a shift -- e.g., October is much more busier and its season was changed to regular season from value for determining nightly rates.

From the beginning, DVC differed from Disney because you had more making decisions on when to go based on points required than season but today it is substantially different; in general end of Sep through Marathon weekend in Jan is DVC's high season and the rest of the year regular to lower season including holidays from mid-Jan through most of Sep. The factors that have contributed to that shift include Food & Wine, the lower points required, and also includes a shift in the age of the owner population in that many who bought in the 90s when they were tied to kid's school schedules no longer have to follow those schedules.

So would you say that DVC had been slow to adjust to the change in members' travel patterns? Is it safe to say a re-allocation should be forthcoming....or do they not care?

 

[Chuck S]

So would you say that DVC had been slow to adjust to the change in members' travel patterns? Is it safe to say a re-allocation should be forthcoming....or do they not care?

I don't think they were slow, they did some fairly major reallocations a few years ago that were met with many more complaints than accolades, because people that were used to travel in a particular season could no longer do so without purchasing more points and now the charts resemble more of the originals.

It's basically is that you can't please everyone and people are used to the charts in the basic structure they were presented with...and they bought points accordingly.

Now it is true that many owners travel patters change over the years, but it is easier to plan for those changes with fairly stable charts, than having points change dramatically year to year. If points were in continual change, DVC sales would suffer dramatically.

 

[Chuck S]

April has better weather. October is still hurricane season.

Families are less likely to do any major traveling in October versus April. In October people with kids are trying to save up for Christmas presents and saving to pay for travel to see relatives for Thanksgiving and Christmas. While October is popular at Disney because of food and wine, it is a more single adult crowd or couples without children. They tend overall to spend fewer nights, and likely also spend less on souvenirs and stuff...but more on food.

 

[Disbroads]

So if a hotel had plenty of rooms available one week and they were asking $500 a night, but a different week they were asking only $300 a night but were booked months in advance, would we call this a sound pricing strategy or a poorly conceived allocation?

I think you're comparing apples to oranges. The variable pricing, along with length of stay restrictions in the cash world is yield management. It's a practice to maximize profit on their rooms inventory.

DVC doesn't have the same flexibility. We own the resorts. They're not selling when we book. They're taking orders. They only make money at the sales centers.

So they can't make major changes to the seasonal rates. People have been buying DvC for 20 years. They have bought an annual allotment that gets them their week(s) during the time they want to travel. Even the minor tweaks they do make bring on complaints out here.

DvC can't control sold out resorts, but pricing a ten year member out of being able to travel the way they bought to do is in their control, and a bit of a violation of an agreement they made.

As previously noted, October demand has been manufactured since the original seasons were defined. Likewise, many schools used to have a week off on varying weeks of April, depending on the county. This year, Easter is the last day of March.