FP+ Capacity per Park Summary of Work so far 2/9/2013

[CuteAsMinnie]

Don't know if either of these have been discussed yet but I just spoke to a friend who is a CM and she told me:

1. There will be FPs for QS at BOG. These deluxes will get to try this first- Wilderness Lodge, Contemporary, and Grand Floridian.
.

If FPs for QS dining actually happens, we shall leave the park for a wonderful lunch at Grand Flordian Cafe or Kona

 

[CuteAsMinnie]

I guess this fits in with the sales pitch. If people are flush with their 3 FP+ a day for 7 days - maybe they will just not know what to do with them and try ordering a CS meal from a restaurant. For my family of four - I would have use 4 though, one from each one of our accounts. How I would manage that - I have no idea. Right now I can't even link up guests for a simple little breakfast at the GF Cafe.

You probably don't even to need to bother as you most likely could get a table at GF Cafe for breakfast without one, especially of you go after park opening

 

[bcrook]

Don't know if either of these have been discussed yet but I just spoke to a friend who is a CM and she told me:

2. Fast Passes will be distributed depending on resort level. Each person onsite will get a certain number with mods getting a few more than values and the deluxe resort visitors getting a few more than the mods.

This really was the other shoe we were expecting to drop, mom2rtk had been predicting this from the beginning. Everything falls into place with this model.

Well surely that's enough to throw everybody into a tizzy.

Yup! And...to make things even more agitated, I can't see DVC owners being included in the deluxe category.

If this all plays out like this, then getting online at 60 days will be important - because there isn't enough FP+ yet to support this. Unless a lot of people use their FP+ for lunches and parades. What if 5000 people are given preferred spots for parades up and down the parade route. That would definitely eat up all the good sections.

I am still most intrigue with the Disney selected Fastpick for a person that doesn't know what they are doing. What does that look like?

 

[bcrook]

You probably don't even to need to bother as you most likely could get a table at GF Cafe for breakfast without one, especially of you go after park opening

LOL! I know. I do have a reservation for 6 people: my wife and I and another family. We are trying to link up our families and get our ADR to sync with both accounts. We can't link or sync! So, using the app to pre-order a CS meal and then get that meal on time seems like a pipe dream.

But, neither of these things bother me, I know I don't need a reservation for GF Cafe at 10:30 in the morning and I can't see me ever using a FP+ on a CS meal.

 

[Robbi]

This really was the other shoe we were expecting to drop, mom2rtk had been predicting this from the beginning. Everything falls into place with this model.



Yup! And...to make things even more agitated, I can't see DVC owners being included in the deluxe category.

If this all plays out like this, then getting online at 60 days will be important - because there isn't enough FP+ yet to support this. Unless a lot of people use their FP+ for lunches and parades. What if 5000 people are given preferred spots for parades up and down the parade route. That would definitely eat up all the good sections.

I am still most intrigue with the Disney selected Fastpick for a person that doesn't know what they are doing. What does that look like?

which will tick me and other DVC members the heck off

 

[bcrook]

which will tick me and other DVC members the heck off

That includes me. But, if these FP+ are designed to get people to stay on site at the deluxe locations - they are wasting them on me - I have prepaid for 43 years of deluxe accommodations. Its like free dining.

 

[mikegood2]

Don't know if either of these have been discussed yet but I just spoke to a friend who is a CM and she told me:

1. There will be FPs for QS at BOG. These deluxes will get to try this first- Wilderness Lodge, Contemporary, and Grand Floridian.

2. Fast Passes will be distributed depending on resort level. Each person onsite will get a certain number with mods getting a few more than values and the deluxe resort visitors getting a few more than the mods.

While I see additional FP+ distributions based on resort levels in the future, I have trouble believing it will happen anytime soon! Wouldn't it make sense to have the program up and running at least a few months and work out all the kinks? Lets say, for argument sake, the additional FP+s replace EMH! Wouldn't they have to make sure everything is up and running smoothly, before making that commitment? If not just imagine the backlash!

As far as QS FP's, while I wouldn't imagine using them myself that could change depending on how it works. If I'm in a party of 5 each individual getting a FP for QS doesn't make sense, but what if you could just use one FP and order for all five in your group? Maybe this weeks rumor of a 4th FP is for QS? Maybe something along the lines of 1 E attraction, 2 standard attractions (or 1 mid-level/ 1 lower level attraction) and 1 QS or parade?

 

[bcrook]

While I see additional FP+ distributions based on resort levels in the future, I have trouble believing it will happen anytime soon! Wouldn't it make sense to have the program up and running at least a few months and work out all the kinks? Lets say, for argument sake, the additional FP+s replace EMH! Wouldn't they have to make sure everything is up and running smoothly, before making that commitment? If not just imagine the backlash!

As far as QS FP's, while I wouldn't imagine using them myself that could change depending on how it works. If I'm in a party of 5 each individual getting a FP for QS doesn't make sense, but what if you could just use one FP and order for all five in your group? Maybe this weeks rumor of a 4th FP is for QS? Maybe something along the lines of 1 E attraction, 2 standard attractions (or 1 mid-level/ 1 lower level attraction) and 1 QS or parade?

It does clearly state in the terms and conditions that each person ordering a meal would need to use a FP+. I would think if people got 4 or more, then using them for a meal would be more likely.

As far as using the FP+ to fill up those deluxe rooms? I don't really know if they will wait. As soon as the marketing hits - maybe people will upgrade immediately to get the extra fastpasses?

Other than the apps and the webpage (this seems like the easiest part to work out), I don't know what they have left to test. They have to have a clear idea of exactly how many FP they have to play with and they know the numbers. The rfid readers are in place; all they have to do is pull off those covers and let people start planning away.

 

[mikegood2]

As far as using the FP+ to fill up those deluxe rooms? I don't really know if they will wait. As soon as the marketing hits - maybe people will upgrade immediately to get the extra fastpasses?

Other than the apps and the webpage (this seems like the easiest part to work out), I don't know what they have left to test. They have to have a clear idea of exactly how many FP they have to play with and they know the numbers. The rfid readers are in place; all they have to do is pull off those covers and let people start planning away.

I guess so, and agree about how it could get people to upgrade but it just seems risky to me! It's one thing to have the system set up as part of everyone ticket when everyone is on equal ground. But if someone spent more to upgrade their on site accommodations and the FP+ system isn't running well, that's another problem! We've already seen reports on how hit and miss the app is in the park during the testing, once it's activated for all it will probable be worse, at least in the beginning. I see the website and app potentially being the biggest bottleneck!

 

[Rileygirl]

Lots of interesting comments!

1. Fast Pass time slots: My theory is, they MUST stagger them by 5 minute intervals in order to use a maximum number. For instance, if you just have a 9 to 10 slot, and everyone shows up at 9 - that makes some people wait more then 40 minutes for their fast pass ride(at the tail end of the pack using a 60% OHRC). And I think this is counter productive to what D hopes to achieve with the feeling of the fp+, they want to whistle people through the fp line, making them just love it. Want it. Need it. What, I can buy more or stay at a pricier resort and get more? THATS what I am going to do! The fp's now can do 5 minute intervals, its more efficient management of crowds, and you can bet your bottom dollar it will be in place for FP+.

On the more questionable side - will they offset the timing by 40 minutes at park opening? I have no idea on this - I guess it depends on why they did that with FP regular- was it a chance for people to actually get into the park (size management and need based on opening time?) - was it to allow the CM get in the groove? - was it due to staffing issues by saving money of fp entrance staff to start a little later maning the entrances? I dont know why they did it in the past, so it makes it hard to predict if they will keep it or not.

I think people will select an 'hour time slot' of say 10 am, and they will be given a time of say 10:25am. And the computer will spit out this number in conjunction with the other times the guest has selected for the other fp's. Think about this - this is pretty sophisticated stuff maybe - the computer has to have parameters on time and distance as not to overbook, or make two fp+ times unrealistic for the guest. Also the CS fp will be complicated mathmatically speaking. Way past my abilitiy to compute.

2. Can Disney really pull this off? With their track record on techno glitches, and the apparent size and complication of this entire infrastructure, and the problems ALREADY noted in the apps and websites - this could be CHAOS. I dont think they are ready to pull off the plastic just yet. They are testing small chunks of certain aspects to see how the beast runs. They thought they would be ready early Feb, and now I think they have a major delay. They cannot start this system during the two weeks of Easter, no way. I think there will be some random testing of various aspects, like the BOG CS test upcoming, and after Easter, they may try and put this system up.

3. Incentive for Levels of Hotels on property: This is a no brainer for Disney - if they hook 'the people' on FP+, this will work like a charm, making it far more in percieved value then EMH ever was. I dont think this is a year away, it may be in the 5 year plan, just because logistically, we dont think the fp capacity is there. More rides and more dining venues need to come online first. Maybe this is 3 years away. I just dont see it as 'immediate.'

I am in the same dvc boat Barry - but am not ultra concerned regarding what 'we' are entitled to because - although they have US locked in, they are building DVC resorts and still have so much inventory to sell. If its a bad deal for us old owners, it would be a bad deal for new owners buying in, and I think they would rather have it as a carrot. Not sure how, but they must have an incentive angle somewhere in this scheme. I dont think DVC owners are going to burn. Did I read somewhere that DVC was one of the biggest money makers for Disney somewhere? We are a large entity, and it would not make sense to have it as a detriment to be an 'owner' and get less then a resort guest. Its going to be a carrot. JMHO.

Edited to ADD: I just had an interesting thought - it may not be just the number of FP+ that are available to different levels of resort stays, (value, mod, delux, DVC), it may be WHAT is available to pick as a fp+ - Delux gets BOG, value gets caseys corner as CS options. Ok, that would start a riot, wouldn't it? NO, I dont think it could be that. Hmm, thinking out loud here - perhaps its not WHAT, but its WHEN. Delux gets to pick 90 days out, mods get to pick 60 days out, values 30 days out. This is not as shocking - they do it on the cruiseline you know. The more you cruise DCL the earlier you get to pick your dining ressies...... Ok- I kinda think thats brilliant on Disneys part. AND THIS COULD BE ROLLED OUT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY. Hmmm. A no cost awesome incentive and perk for Disney. Wow.....

 

[Rileygirl]

Ok, I am still just trying to think this through:

Start times for FP+ : At first I thought that there could be a 9 am time slot available (park opening time slot) with FP+ due to the fact you pick them in advance and online, but dont have to be standing in the park to pull one from the machine, but really thats impossible. How could a guest get themselves in the park and be there for their timeslot for space at 9 am. Now, I am not talking about 'us', we would know how to do that, I am talking about the average disney goer, who is being targeted by this whole system. Yes, they have an hour window - but you know how it goes : Average guest goes to the bus stop at 8:45, waits 15 minutes to catch the next bus at 9:00, still thinking they have plenty of time to make their 9-10 am window, they dont arrive at the MK until 9:25 am- takes them 30 minutes to go through security and turnstyles because of the gridlock, and then have only a few minutes to make the tail end of the deadline. And I actually think most average guests would be wandering down to the bus stop at 5 minutes to 9, making it impossible to make it.

It seems logical to me spock, that logistically speaking - there will still be a 40 lag time. Which maybe make RD critical for the educated user. At least, for the way I tour, in my situation.

 

[Rileygirl]

The more I think about it, the more I feel that the WHEN is going to be a key selling feature for DVC, and could be the incentive to pick delux over mod, ect. This could be the no cost carrot. They can do it immediately. And, for DVC, owners are usually Disney people, who would VALUE a leg up on the competition for the best FP+s.

Could be a great incentive that does not cost the big D anything. Wow. interesting to think about.

 

[bcrook]

Ok, I am still just trying to think this through:

Start times for FP+ : At first I thought that there could be a 9 am time slot available (park opening time slot) with FP+ due to the fact you pick them in advance and online, but dont have to be standing in the park to pull one from the machine, but really thats impossible. How could a guest get themselves in the park and be there for their timeslot for space at 9 am. Now, I am not talking about 'us', we would know how to do that, I am talking about the average disney goer, who is being targeted by this whole system. Yes, they have an hour window - but you know how it goes : Average guest goes to the bus stop at 8:40, waits 15 minutes to catch the next bus at 9:05, still thinking they have plenty of time to make their 9-10 am window, they dont arrive at the MK until 9:25 am- takes them 30 minutes to go through security and turnstyles because of the gridlock, and then have only a few minutes to make the tail end of the deadline. And I actually think most average guests would be wandering down to the bus stop at 5 minutes to 9, making it impossible to make it.

It seems logical to me spock, that logistically speaking - there will still be a 40 lag time. Which maybe make RD critical for the educated user. At least, for the way I tour, in my situation.

These times would be the least desirable for anyone who knows what is going on that is for sure.

If the terms and agreements are correct, there are two things to consider. 1. If people are on their way at 9:15 and there is no way to make it, they can get on their phone or stop at the kiosk and rebook for later in the day. 2. This is the bad one! If they miss their appointment because they are still on the bus at 9:15, they will lose the reservation, and maybe the ability to change any FP+ reservations for the rest of the day. The terms and conditions may be misleading on that.

They could book time slots for Belles Enchanting Tales or Jedi Training or Meet and Greets as early as 9:15. Maybe you get to go to the front of the line?

What if the concept of FP is changing. Maybe this is supposed to be more like an itinerary just like ADRs. I have an appointment with Baloo at 9:15, then I have expedition Everest reservation at 10:45, and 2:30 I am scheduled to go Kilimanjaro Safari. Then at 4:30 when the park is clearing out, I get a Surprise and Delight Fastpass for dinosaur between 5:45 - 6:45. And I get a notice that tough to be a bug has immediate seating.

That is a pretty good day for the average guy and gal. That would be two headliners, which could also be a perk for deluxe. But at Animal Kingdom I don't think they have enough FP capacity to separate rides by tiers.

 

[Rileygirl]

I actually think, that if this infrastructure can be put in place, applied well with no or little tech glitchers, and goes to the maximum of ability (not 3 fp's on an average day, but 5 or so - not a peak times obviously like xmas or easter) that for us, the planner - WE could end up a big winner. Depends on the actual impact of the 'b' attractions online that have fp's or not. If we can still slip in HM, buzz, Philharmagic (these are fun but huge hourly loading capacity attractions) with still little wait, we may be praising this system! Add in the interactive fun. Wow.

Its a no brainer that it will vastly improve the average Disney guest experience. Its a big winner for them.

AK is always the weak link. Disney has to fix it. But, dont forget, our projections are based on maximum park attendance, and that is only for about 4 weeks a year, on the other days, there is room for 'more'.

But Barry - think about the WHEN thing. Its like a huge lightbulb went off for me. Dont you think that is the marketing promotion for Disney Resorts and DVC? Huge carrot. Huge. And no cost. None. A perfect percieved Perk if you will. Wowza.

~A

 

[bcrook]

The more I think about it, the more I feel that the WHEN is going to be a key selling feature for DVC. This could be the no cost carrot. And, DVC owners are usually Disney people, who would value a leg up on the competition for the best FP+s.

Could be a great incentive that does not cost the big D anything. Wow. interesting to think about.

60 days plus ten? So they don't have to walk ride line reservations? Yes I can see the beauty of this. Quite ingenious.

You don't see this as the same category as free dining? They didn't lose sales when people found out that somebody staying in a value would get free dining for their party, but if you spend $100,000 on DVC, you pay for your dining. If people are like me and see those two bedroom villas with three bathrooms, they will buy. They will say, 3 FP a day is fine with me, if I can stay here.

And then later, they will see the "injustice" of it all. .

But, I hope YOU are right - DVC is included in any premium fastpass schemes.

 

[bcrook]

I actually think, that if this infrastructure can be put in place, applied well with no or little tech glitchers, and goes to the maximum of ability (not 3 fp's on an average day, but 5 or so - not a peak times obviously like xmas or easter) that for us, the planner - WE could end up a big winner. Depends on the actual impact of the 'b' attractions online that have fp's or not. If we can still slip in HM, buzz, Philharmagic (these are fun but huge hourly loading capacity attractions) with still little wait, we may be praising this system! Add in the interactive fun. Wow.

Its a no brainer that it will vastly improve the average Disney guest experience. Its a big winner for them.

AK is always the weak link. Disney has to fix it. But, dont forget, our projections are based on maximum park attendance, and that is only for about 4 weeks a year, on the other days, there is room for 'more'.

But Barry - think about the WHEN thing. Its like a huge lightbulb went off for me. Dont you think that is the marketing promotion for Disney Resorts and DVC? Huge carrot. Huge. And no cost. None. A perfect percieved Perk if you will. Wowza.

~A

If the educated user gets 5 FP+ a day, that would better than three. Except if there is a limit on headliners and hopping limitations, I am not sure it helps much outside the Magic Kingdom. If I go to Epcot early, and save my 5 FP+ for dhs later. What would use them on? Book TSMM and star tours. Then what? Great movie ride? Use one for Fantasmic! And get a reserved seat at Indy?

I definitely think getting a FP for TSMM for my time after being at Epcot is cool. But not being able to pull a tower of terror or a rock n roller coaster would overshadow that.

This is a tough sale for me. My kids love to ride the e tickets multiple times, this limitation is the biggest drawback. As you said earlier, RD is going to be more critical than ever.

 

[Rileygirl]

Well, whether or not anything is of value, depends on the individuals needs I suppose.

Extra fp+ for HM at 9:30 in the morning is of little value to me or to you.

Its the way Disney is going to sell it as a perk. They are going to make it look glossy and great. They are going to sell it to the general visitor, as incentive to stay onsite at a deluxe, or to purchase DVC. You are right, the education comes after!


But, I think that the glossy perk will be similar, or the same, as deluxe compared to DVC. They have to make it a selling feature for both, kwim? Whether or not its good for our individual circumstances is irrelevant to Disney.

So, I am hopeful that it will be a percieved carrot for DVC. Whether we can squeeze carrot juice out of it, I am not as sure. But, I can say that about the whole new FP+ system. I waiver from being astonished at its potential, frightened by negative fall out that could happen, excited by time savings it COULD offer when working at maximum, and nervous about the change in general. I just want to see the beast operating, and read about the dis'ers personal experiences and problems, to see how it actually behaves LIVE.

 

[Rileygirl]

If the educated user gets 5 FP+ a day, that would better than three. Except if there is a limit on headliners and hopping limitations, I am not sure it helps much outside the Magic Kingdom. If I go to Epcot early, and save my 5 FP+ for dhs later. What would use them on? Book TSMM and star tours. Then what? Great movie ride? Use one for Fantasmic! And get a reserved seat at Indy?

I definitely think getting a FP for TSMM for my time after being at Epcot is cool. But not being able to pull a tower of terror or a rock n roller coaster would overshadow that.

This is a tough sale for me. My kids love to ride the e tickets multiple times, this limitation is the biggest drawback. As you said earlier, RD is going to be more critical than ever.

I know. Its also going to effect the local florida AP user in a rotten way too maybe. They dont have to plan flights or hotels, so I can see them hating using this system. They want to just decide tomorrow that they will visit. I know that Disney will always hold back a certain percentage of fp+ for the day of user, but it might be just a bi&ch to get a couple of good ones. I think Robo and MesaBoy sees the writing on the wall for this.

Often I am guilty of focusing on what is the positives and negatives for my own touring needs.

 

[bcrook]

I have mentioned this before, but my food and wine trip with a group of twelve will be the perfect testimonial for the FP+. As a matter of fact they should contact me and capture our trip! .

We will build our trip around the food and wine tasting events, and will buy those tickets in advance (with my DVC discount!). We will choose our restaurants in advance. So we will know what parks we will be in. And if FP+ is up and running, I will book those attractions 60 days in advance also to grab the perfect ride times for our schedule. My traveling group will think I am the magical one. I can lead them through the parks, sharing fun insider tips, and not waiting in lines. I am even planning on booking a prime spot for illuminations (most people think that is a wasted FP).

I can't see any drawbacks for this trip, even if it turns out 3 FP+, no hopping, no repeats, one headliner, and plan 60 days in advance. I am all over it. Throw in interactive queues and we will have 12 happy visitors. I can't wait.

In that case though we are going to Disney for Epcot and the wine. The trip I took last summer with 12 people including 6 Tweens and teens, where we hopped daily and rode the headliners constantly - that would be a different story. 13 days on site with one headliner a day would have caused crankiness.

 

[mom2rtk]

This really was the other shoe we were expecting to drop, mom2rtk had been predicting this from the beginning. Everything falls into place with this model.

Actually the shoe I have been waiting to drop has been onsite/offsite as opposed to resort level. We stay value and probably won't change that based on the FP options. If the difference is substantial between resort levels, I'd probably just stop going.

As for onsite/offsite.... here's my thinking. Disney keeps saying they are cutting back on discounts. Despite what anyone says, the economy has not rebounded, and it's entirely possible that we are back in recession. And Disney has ALL those rooms to fill. They have a very expensive infrastructure to support. The word on the street is that they are revamping Free Dining to be not nearly as enticing as years past. I'm thinking the rumor I saw said it wouldn't even be offered at value resorts. Disney may prefer to upsell folks to the mods and deluxes, but I'm quite sure they don't want their value resorts sitting empty. I just don't think they can stop the discounts without something to use as enticement.

Lots of interesting comments!

On the more questionable side - will they offset the timing by 40 minutes at park opening? I have no idea on this - I guess it depends on why they did that with FP regular- was it a chance for people to actually get into the park (size management and need based on opening time?) - was it to allow the CM get in the groove? - was it due to staffing issues by saving money of fp entrance staff to start a little later maning the entrances? I dont know why they did it in the past, so it makes it hard to predict if they will keep it or not.

My guess is that they will still offset timing at opening by 40 minutes or so. I'm sure they'd love to milk a little more out of it by starting straight up at opening. But there's the logistics issue involved. People have a full hour to use their FP. Nobody near opening will actually go to their FP destination first. They are most likely to go do a couple other things first and catch their FP at the end of their hour. that is likely to cause a lot of clumping at 9:50 or so, which is something they'd probably rather avoid for smooth flow of those lines.