Multiple offers

[ELMC]

IMO this is one of the very few areas where the applicable laws/rules and ethics diverge in timesharing. Unless one qualifies in some way and is up front about the multiple offers, I see it as unethical to do so. Just like I see it as unethical to cancel an offer or contract if a better one comes along. Past threads on this subject have suggested that many don't see it that way.

I agree with you here. Just because you are technically allowed to do something does not mean you should. The assumption is that sellers and buyers are negotiating in good faith. To negotiate for a contract that you do not have the intention of buying contradicts this belief.

I would hope that resale brokers would require a deposit before submitting an offer to the seller. If the offer is accepted and later withdrawn, the deposit would then be forfeited. Most real estate transactions are conducted in this manner to prevent insincere offers.

I'd stick with one offer (with a deposit) if you are serious about a purchase. If I were a seller, I'd make sure a deposit has been made before even considering an offer.

Good luck!

While I agree it could eliminate some potential problems to require a deposit prior to making an offer, I think that the paperwork it would create for the brokers would be prohibitive and making the deposit nonrefundable challenges Florida real estate contract law.

But I agree, timeshare transactions are different than typical real estate transactions. When I bought my house, I had to write a 1% deposit check just to make the offer, or else I would not have been taken seriously. Unfortunately, timeshare resales are a little looser, which creates the opportunity for prospective buyers who are not negotiating in good faith to operate.

I think that the best way to prevent this from happening is for the brokers themselves to vet their buyers. Just such a case was discussed in another thread where the prospective buyer backed out of multiple offers.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

...
While I agree it could eliminate some potential problems to require a deposit prior to making an offer, I think that the paperwork it would create for the brokers would be prohibitive and making the deposit nonrefundable challenges Florida real estate contract law.

I disagree that any such paperwork would prohibitive for a real estate broker as that is part of their responsibility in dealing with real estate transactions. As for the non-refundable deposit conflicting with FL law - my understanding is that there is a 10 day rescision period, after which the deposit is non-refundable (without approval by the seller) already in the law so there should not be any conflict for provisions not included in the accepted offer.

 

[ELMC]

I disagree that any such paperwork would prohibitive for a real estate broker as that is part of their responsibility in dealing with real estate transactions.

Fair point.

As for the non-refundable deposit conflicting with FL law - my understanding is that there is a 10 day rescision period, after which the deposit is non-refundable (without approval by the seller) already in the law so there should not be any conflict for provisions not included in the accepted offer.

We share the same understanding about the 10 day recision period and the fact that the deposit is refundable should one decide to cancel within this time. So how could there be a non refundable deposit in the event that a buyer withdraws their offer? I don't think I'm understanding the point you're trying to make.

 

[spears2008]

We've been looking at getting into DVC, when making an offer will the major sites let you put in multiple offers at the same time? We're looking for something in the neighborhood of 200 points, not too picky about which resort.

I put in several offers (on different contracts) advertised by the same broker in the past with no problem. I would typically submit my offers in my order of preference and with the "first offer accepted wins" philosphy for contracts at the same resort.

Good luck!

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Fair point.


We share the same understanding about the 10 day recision period and the fact that the deposit is refundable should one decide to cancel within this time. So how could there be a non refundable deposit in the event that a buyer withdraws their offer? I don't think I'm understanding the point you're trying to make.

From the recent threads about making and withdrawing offers, it is apparent to me that many buyers have no skin in the game and seem to be rather flippant about making real estate offers. FL law provides a 10 day rescision to allow a buyer to cancel the transaction for any reason - after which time there would be no refund of any earnest money deposit. Until 10 days, the deposit is 100% refundable. Perhaps if buyers had placed a deposit, they would at least have $$$ tied up in the transaction and might not be so eager to withdraw and move on whenever the grass looks a little greener on another listing.

I also have little patience with sellers who list their property, accept an offer and later withdraw from contracts and I feel that the buyers should be more proactive about pursuing their legal rights in those cases too - but again, if they have not paid any earnest money they have lost little except some time.

IMO, it is up to the brokers to act in a professional manner. Certainly, when making a direct purchase from Disney, none of these things ever occur. Deposits are expected and made during the offer period and returned if the 10-day rescision is invoked. By not expecting a deposit until an offer has been accepted, they have invited these situations where buyers withdraw after a couple of days and move on. I have no problem when buyers put a deadline for a response on an offer (or when sellers do the same thing on a counter-offer) - and that also fulfills a legal responsibility to void the offer after that time. The seller can accept or counter by that deadline and the buyer is released from responsibility once the deadline passes. The brokers also have the responsibility to follow up on these deadlines.

It seems that for some reason, some DCV resale brokers have they own permutation of the way real estate transactions are handled. I have purchased and sold non-DVC timeshares in WI, GA, IN, and SC and have always made earnest deposits for these purchases and only responded to offers where an earnest deposit had been made. The system always worked well in these cases.

If it is too much trouble for DVC resale brokers to use earnest money deposits as a routine component of their listings, perhaps any chaos from these issues is deserved.

YMMV.

 

[DougEMG]

I also have little patience with sellers who list their property, accept an offer and later withdraw from contracts and I feel that the buyers should be more proactive about pursuing their legal rights in those cases too - but again, if they have not paid any earnest money they have lost little except some time.

I had a few sellers back out after I had signed and paid a deposit. In addition to the time I lost, I also lost the exchange rate on my deposit going from Canadian to US funds, then getting the refund and going from US back to Canadian funds. Not a huge amount, but still a real cost to me. The bigger loser is the DVC broker who is out their commission because the seller changed their mind. My broker definitely made it sound like this does happen occasionally and that it really isn't worth their effort to make the seller hold to the agreement. So while the law can be on your side, the cost to have it enforced could easily be more than it is worth.

Buying resale can still be a great deal if you are willing to put in the work and have the time.

 

[ELMC]

From the recent threads about making and withdrawing offers, it is apparent to me that many buyers have no skin in the game and seem to be rather flippant about making real estate offers. FL law provides a 10 day rescision to allow a buyer to cancel the transaction for any reason - after which time there would be no refund of any earnest money deposit. Until 10 days, the deposit is 100% refundable. Perhaps if buyers had placed a deposit, they would at least have $$$ tied up in the transaction and might not be so eager to withdraw and move on whenever the grass looks a little greener on another listing.

I also have little patience with sellers who list their property, accept an offer and later withdraw from contracts and I feel that the buyers should be more proactive about pursuing their legal rights in those cases too - but again, if they have not paid any earnest money they have lost little except some time.

IMO, it is up to the brokers to act in a professional manner. Certainly, when making a direct purchase from Disney, none of these things ever occur. Deposits are expected and made during the offer period and returned if the 10-day rescision is invoked. By not expecting a deposit until an offer has been accepted, they have invited these situations where buyers withdraw after a couple of days and move on. I have no problem when buyers put a deadline for a response on an offer (or when sellers do the same thing on a counter-offer) - and that also fulfills a legal responsibility to void the offer after that time. The seller can accept or counter by that deadline and the buyer is released from responsibility once the deadline passes. The brokers also have the responsibility to follow up on these deadlines.

It seems that for some reason, some DCV resale brokers have they own permutation of the way real estate transactions are handled. I have purchased and sold non-DVC timeshares in WI, GA, IN, and SC and have always made earnest deposits for these purchases and only responded to offers where an earnest deposit had been made. The system always worked well in these cases.

If it is too much trouble for DVC resale brokers to use earnest money deposits as a routine component of their listings, perhaps any chaos from these issues is deserved.

YMMV.

Thanks for clarifying, and I do agree with your points. The 10 day rule is meant to act as a shield to protect buyers, but all too often prospective buyers use it as a sword to cavalierly make offers that they have no intention of following through on. I do agree that having to put down a deposit might act as a deterrent, but unfortunately in this case there is no real way to legislate in a way that completely eliminates bad behavior. The best case scenario is to simply make it inconvenient to do so.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

But I agree, timeshare transactions are different than typical real estate transactions. When I bought my house, I had to write a 1% deposit check just to make the offer, or else I would not have been taken seriously. Unfortunately, timeshare resales are a little looser, which creates the opportunity for prospective buyers who are not negotiating in good faith to operate.

In every real estate transaction I've dealt with the broker usually (but not always) asked for a check to hold but it was never deposited until contracts were signed and escrow was opened. Really there's nothing else they can do so the check is just a display but nothing binding until all contracts are completed - and really any contingencies removed if those are written in. Even then I've had title agents email to verify if we're a go and they should deposit the check several days after contracts were finished.

While to some people sending a deposit would be giving and would be received as a show of commitment to other people it doesn't matter a bit and they will still cancel if they find something different because they can.

Regarding multiple offers I don't think it's appropriate unless you are willing to purchase all. If not then at the very least place a time limit on the offer and if that is exceeded then move on to another. With the subtle variations in resale between resorts, length of contracts, points available, use years etc. I also would not try to find a broker that would generically make offers on contracts for me. I would locate specific contracts and tailor my offers to them until a mutual agreement was made with a seller.

 

[ELMC]

In every real estate transaction I've dealt with the broker usually (but not always) asked for a check to hold but it was never deposited until contracts were signed and escrow was opened. Really there's nothing else they can do so the check is just a display but nothing binding until all contracts are completed - and really any contingencies removed if those are written in. Even then I've had title agents email to verify if we're a go and they should deposit the check several days after contracts were finished.

While to some people sending a deposit would be giving and would be received as a show of commitment to other people it doesn't matter a bit and they will still cancel if they find something different because they can.

Regarding multiple offers I don't think it's appropriate unless you are willing to purchase all. If not then at the very least place a time limit on the offer and if that is exceeded then move on to another. With the subtle variations in resale between resorts, length of contracts, points available, use years etc. I also would not try to find a broker that would generically make offers on contracts for me. I would locate specific contracts and tailor my offers to them until a mutual agreement was made with a seller.

Very true. But I think that there are those who are just kicking tires who would not want to write a check (or give a credit card number) regardless of whether or not they could cancel. So this extra step would at least eliminate part of the problem.

 

[Dean]

In every real estate transaction I've dealt with the broker usually (but not always) asked for a check to hold but it was never deposited until contracts were signed and escrow was opened. Really there's nothing else they can do so the check is just a display but nothing binding until all contracts are completed - and really any contingencies removed if those are written in. Even then I've had title agents email to verify if we're a go and they should deposit the check several days after contracts were finished.

While to some people sending a deposit would be giving and would be received as a show of commitment to other people it doesn't matter a bit and they will still cancel if they find something different because they can.

Regarding multiple offers I don't think it's appropriate unless you are willing to purchase all. If not then at the very least place a time limit on the offer and if that is exceeded then move on to another. With the subtle variations in resale between resorts, length of contracts, points available, use years etc. I also would not try to find a broker that would generically make offers on contracts for me. I would locate specific contracts and tailor my offers to them until a mutual agreement was made with a seller.

Timeshares are a little different that regular RE. My understanding is that a deposit is generally expected with a written offer but not with a verbal offer though I'm sure it varies at times.

 

[andy117]

I put in several offers (on different contracts) advertised by the same broker in the past with no problem. I would typically submit my offers in my order of preference and with the "first offer accepted wins" philosphy for contracts at the same resort.

Good luck!

That's kinda what I had in mind.

 

[ELMC]

I put in several offers (on different contracts) advertised by the same broker in the past with no problem. I would typically submit my offers in my order of preference and with the "first offer accepted wins" philosphy for contracts at the same resort.

Good luck!

That's kinda what I had in mind.

And so what do you do when two sellers accept your offer, both thinking that they have a deal? Tell one of them that you were just kidding?

 

[JMW123]

Not sure why the majority opinion here is to only make one offer at a time. Here is how I look at it;
1. you are looking at several mostly similar, but slightly unique offerings for sale.
2. You know that you most likely are not going to pay advertised price.
3. You have no idea how flexible/firm each advertised price is.
4. You are doing the seller a favor by buying a financial obligation from them that they no longer want/can afford and you want to do so at the lowest price possible.

If you are not in a rush and have months worth of patience, you can set a target price and negotiate one offer at a time until you hit your target price (probably the smartest way to do this and then you can get one of those deals that everyone on these boards ooh's and ahh's in posts with various emoticons).

But, if you have decided to take the plunge and you want it now, like most buyers that ended up on this site by Googling "ROFR" and "Great Price for DVC". You look at the big 4 sites and find lets say 3 listings that fit your needs. Each seller has a listed price and an unlisted "Negotiable price". The only way for a buyer to make a rational choice is to find that "bottom negotiable price" from each seller and take the price/listing that you perceive to be the best deal once you have all the facts.

I say be open and honest with the broker and the seller. "I am looking at X number of contracts and am placing bids on all of them concurrently. The first seller to meet my price point will get my business" I find this is a great way to speed up communication and to get true bottom line numbers back from sellers. Pit them against each other. This is the same way I would buy a new car. Call 4 dealers and ask them each to submit bottom line prices and eliminate the dealers 1 by 1 until you find the one that has the best price/product combination and is willing to negotiate.

This is what I did, and it worked for me. But I was up front with everyone on what my strategy was. "I want a contract and I want it now, but I want the best price available to me at this current time. I don't know how many buyers you have interested, but I do know how many sellers are offering contracts similar to yours and one of you most likely will get my business in the next few days"

Some people may feel different, but until I search the big 4 sites and don't see a single contract for sale, I will contend the sellers need buyers now more than buyers needs sellers, so a seller should not feel scorned if a buyer decides to go with another seller that was willing to meet a better price point. That's the free market at its best.

Oh yeah and as for having 2 sellers both accept your initial offers, if this happens then you are not doing a good job making offers. Your 1st offer should always be too low to get reasonably accepted, just like the list price should always be too high for someone to buy it at face value.

 

[Dean]

And so what do you do when two sellers accept your offer, both thinking that they have a deal? Tell one of them that you were just kidding?

I think they're saying the same as I, take several contracts and give the broker offers to do one at a time until they get an acceptance. You can also do it by making several offers and presenting them to the seller and letting them know the first one accepted cancels the rest if they don't accept at the time of the call. I have no problem with either of those approaches done honestly but you need a broker who's comfortable and that usually means choosing the method that the broker is already comfortable with if any. If the broker is good about calling and the buyer is easily accessible, it's not necessary but if neither of those are true, it can really help for some situations. It's also possible to make a standing offer if you're looking for something that is hard to find.

 

[DisneyFansInLINY]

Not sure why the majority opinion here is to only make one offer at a time. Here is how I look at it;
1. you are looking at several mostly similar, but slightly unique offerings for sale.
2. You know that you most likely are not going to pay advertised price.
3. You have no idea how flexible/firm each advertised price is.
4. You are doing the seller a favor by buying a financial obligation from them that they no longer want/can afford and you want to do so at the lowest price possible.

If you are not in a rush and have months worth of patience, you can set a target price and negotiate one offer at a time until you hit your target price (probably the smartest way to do this and then you can get one of those deals that everyone on these boards ooh's and ahh's in posts with various emoticons).

But, if you have decided to take the plunge and you want it now, like most buyers that ended up on this site by Googling "ROFR" and "Great Price for DVC". You look at the big 4 sites and find lets say 3 listings that fit your needs. Each seller has a listed price and an unlisted "Negotiable price". The only way for a buyer to make a rational choice is to find that "bottom negotiable price" from each seller and take the price/listing that you perceive to be the best deal once you have all the facts.

I say be open and honest with the broker and the seller. "I am looking at X number of contracts and am placing bids on all of them concurrently. The first seller to meet my price point will get my business" I find this is a great way to speed up communication and to get true bottom line numbers back from sellers. Pit them against each other. This is the same way I would buy a new car. Call 4 dealers and ask them each to submit bottom line prices and eliminate the dealers 1 by 1 until you find the one that has the best price/product combination and is willing to negotiate.

This is what I did, and it worked for me. But I was up front with everyone on what my strategy was. "I want a contract and I want it now, but I want the best price available to me at this current time. I don't know how many buyers you have interested, but I do know how many sellers are offering contracts similar to yours and one of you most likely will get my business in the next few days"

Some people may feel different, but until I search the big 4 sites and don't see a single contract for sale, I will contend the sellers need buyers now more than buyers needs sellers, so a seller should not feel scorned if a buyer decides to go with another seller that was willing to meet a better price point. That's the free market at its best.

Oh yeah and as for having 2 sellers both accept your initial offers, if this happens then you are not doing a good job making offers. Your 1st offer should always be too low to get reasonably accepted, just like the list price should always be too high for someone to buy it at face value.

Great advice!

 

[Lizard Valley]

Not sure why the majority opinion here is to only make one offer at a time. Here is how I look at it;
1. you are looking at several mostly similar, but slightly unique offerings for sale.
2. You know that you most likely are not going to pay advertised price.
3. You have no idea how flexible/firm each advertised price is.
4. You are doing the seller a favor by buying a financial obligation from them that they no longer want/can afford and you want to do so at the lowest price possible.

If you are not in a rush and have months worth of patience, you can set a target price and negotiate one offer at a time until you hit your target price (probably the smartest way to do this and then you can get one of those deals that everyone on these boards ooh's and ahh's in posts with various emoticons).

But, if you have decided to take the plunge and you want it now, like most buyers that ended up on this site by Googling "ROFR" and "Great Price for DVC". You look at the big 4 sites and find lets say 3 listings that fit your needs. Each seller has a listed price and an unlisted "Negotiable price". The only way for a buyer to make a rational choice is to find that "bottom negotiable price" from each seller and take the price/listing that you perceive to be the best deal once you have all the facts.

I say be open and honest with the broker and the seller. "I am looking at X number of contracts and am placing bids on all of them concurrently. The first seller to meet my price point will get my business" I find this is a great way to speed up communication and to get true bottom line numbers back from sellers. Pit them against each other. This is the same way I would buy a new car. Call 4 dealers and ask them each to submit bottom line prices and eliminate the dealers 1 by 1 until you find the one that has the best price/product combination and is willing to negotiate.

This is what I did, and it worked for me. But I was up front with everyone on what my strategy was. "I want a contract and I want it now, but I want the best price available to me at this current time. I don't know how many buyers you have interested, but I do know how many sellers are offering contracts similar to yours and one of you most likely will get my business in the next few days"

Some people may feel different, but until I search the big 4 sites and don't see a single contract for sale, I will contend the sellers need buyers now more than buyers needs sellers, so a seller should not feel scorned if a buyer decides to go with another seller that was willing to meet a better price point. That's the free market at its best.

Oh yeah and as for having 2 sellers both accept your initial offers, if this happens then you are not doing a good job making offers. Your 1st offer should always be too low to get reasonably accepted, just like the list price should always be too high for someone to buy it at face value.

I also agree that this is excellent advice.

I made about 20 offers over the course of a month back in the fall. I admit, I was making lowball offers, so nobody was jumping on my offers and saying "yes!!" within minutes. It took sometimes up to 3 days before I got the rejection. At first, I waited for the rejection before making an offer on another contract. But I lost out on some great ones that got snatched up by others because I wanted to be "honest" and wait for the seller's response.

By the end, I had 3 different offers going, with 3 different brokers. But they all knew that I had other offers on the table, and that I'd go with the first positive response. And that's how I ended up with 3 accepted offers! I did follow through with all 3 of them though, because they all had something going for them. In the end, 1 got ROFR'd, and the other 2 are now mine.

Bottom line, if you don't get a response within the day, move on and make other offers. If someone gets back to you more than 24 hrs later, I feel that it's OK to say that they took too long to respond so you moved on.

I also did not need to make a deposit on any of those 20 or so offers - only once the offer was accepted and the contract was received.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Timeshares are a little different that regular RE. My understanding is that a deposit is generally expected with a written offer but not with a verbal offer though I'm sure it varies at times.

Sorry - I see I may have not been clear. I was more or less expressing that a timeshare purchase - although it's real estate - tends to be different than purchasing a single family home or a similar type of real estate although in my experience even those transactions do not really take a deposit - just often a show of good faith. I'm not certain if you are saying that a check is expected with a written offer for a timeshare but that's how I'm reading it. I have done an email offer for DVC resale and no deposit was asked for until contracts were signed. And even with signed contracts I have always been given a certain amount of time to submit a check. Not a single DVC resale contract I've done has required a deposit with an offer of any type which is contrary to what some had posted as being normal.

 

[a742246]

After reading all these multiple offer posts, all I can say "I am glad I am not a resale broker". For all of you who has no patience or has problems with a broker, I hope you now understand what they go thru.

 

[Dean]

Sorry - I see I may have not been clear. I was more or less expressing that a timeshare purchase - although it's real estate - tends to be different than purchasing a single family home or a similar type of real estate although in my experience even those transactions do not really take a deposit - just often a show of good faith. I'm not certain if you are saying that a check is expected with a written offer for a timeshare but that's how I'm reading it. I have done an email offer for DVC resale and no deposit was asked for until contracts were signed. And even with signed contracts I have always been given a certain amount of time to submit a check. Not a single DVC resale contract I've done has required a deposit with an offer of any type which is contrary to what some had posted as being normal.

I think we're saying about the same thing but I did read your previous post to suggest that a deposit up front was standard for timeshares. I think it's far more variable where timeshares are concerned compared to houses or similar.