International Driving Permit for Florida

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

The only countries where I have had to have an IDP have been countries where English is not their first language, I.e. Japan for example. If you have a non English driving licence you have always needed an IDP in the USA.

 

[wayneg]

I have been reading about this all weekend, didn't start a thread because 99% off what I have read is utter rubbish.
Hopefully more info will come out to clear this up.
As it stands now I go on 1st April and have no intentions of buying one but will be reading lots more about it.

 

[chmurf]

I have been reading about this all weekend, didn't start a thread because 99% off what I have read is utter rubbish.
Hopefully more info will come out to clear this up.
As it stands now I go on 1st April and have no intentions of buying one but will be reading lots more about it.

I've been reading a lot too. But IMO the link provided by the OP ( http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/322.04 ) from the Florida Senate (which should be as legit as it gets) makes things rather clear :

quoted for reference :

322.04 Persons exempt from obtaining driver license.—
(1) The following persons are exempt from obtaining a driver license:
(a) Any employee of the United States Government, while operating a noncommercial motor vehicle owned by or leased to the United States Government and being operated on official business.
(b) Any person while driving or operating any road machine, farm tractor, or implement of husbandry temporarily operated or moved on a highway.
(c) A nonresident who is at least 16 years of age operating a motor vehicle of the type for which a Class E driver license is required in this state if the nonresident has in his or her immediate possession:
1. A valid noncommercial driver license issued in his or her name from another state or territory of the United States; or
2. An International Driving Permit issued in his or her name in his or her country of residence and a valid license issued in that country.
(d) Any person operating a golf cart, as defined in s. 320.01, which is operated in accordance with the provisions of s. 316.212.
(2) This section does not apply to any person to whom s. 322.031 applies.
(3) Any person working for a firm under contract to the United States Government whose residence is outside this state and whose main point of employment is outside this state may drive a noncommercial vehicle on the public roads of this state for periods up to 60 days while in this state on temporary duty, if the person has a valid driver license from the state of the person’s residence.
History.—s. 16, ch. 19551, 1939; CGL 1940 Supp. 4151(630); s. 16, ch. 20451, 1941; s. 1, ch. 21949, 1943; s. 3, ch. 29721, 1955; s. 1, ch. 59-315; s. 1, ch. 61-124; s. 1, ch. 69-186; s. 5, ch. 78-394; s. 2, ch. 84-111; s. 45, ch. 87-198; s. 34, ch. 89-282; s. 5, ch. 91-243; s. 395, ch. 95-148; s. 32, ch. 95-333; s. 45, ch. 2012-181.

This text can be interpreted to charge any "alien" without an IDP with driving without a license.

This text states that you are allowed to drive a car in Florida (as a visitor) without a proper Florida license, if you have either a License from another state of the US, OR if you have a national license AND an IDP

The text is crystal clear and put in another term : if you don't have a national driver's license AND an IDP, you are required to get a Florida driver's license to operate a car on Florida's roads.

It is not clearly stated that YOU MUST have an IDP, but it is clearly implied that if you don't have an IDP you're NOT EXEMPT from obtaining a Florida Driver's License. In other words if you have neither a FL Driver's licence nor an IDP you are considered to be driving without a valid license

 

[wilma-bride]

chmurf, I am afraid I disagree with you as I see the Florida statute as being the law that applies to those people required to hold a driver's licence in Flroida. I honestly don't believe that it applies to International visitors to the US who have a rental car. If it did, the rental companies would be aware (and they aren't) and there would be far more checks in place to make sure you had a valid IDP before you were allowed to drive a car.

In fact, the previous chapter to that quoted states when a non-resident is required to obtain a FL driving licence. As we would not be required to obtain a FL licence (as visitors to the state) then the exemptions actually would not apply either since we are not required to be licenced in the state (that made sense in my head but doesn't read so well when reading it back).

In other words, we don't need to meet the requirements to be exempt from obtaining a licence since we are not required to obtain a FL licence in the first place. Hope that makes more sense

 

[chmurf]

In other words, we don't need to meet the requirements to be exempt from obtaining a licence since we are not required to obtain a FL licence in the first place. Hope that makes more sense

I understand what you say, but you are required to get a FL License to be allowed to drive on FL roads, UNLESS you are exempt as per the statute quoted above (including the need for an IDP)

here is the relevant statute

322.03 Drivers must be licensed; penalties.—
(1) Except as otherwise authorized in this chapter, a person may not drive any motor vehicle upon a highway in this state unless such person has a valid driver’s license issued under this chapter.
(a) A person who drives a commercial motor vehicle may not receive a driver’s license unless and until he or she surrenders to the department all driver’s licenses in his or her possession issued to him or her by any other jurisdiction or makes an affidavit that he or she does not possess a driver’s license. Any such person who fails to surrender such licenses commits a noncriminal infraction, punishable as a moving violation as set forth in chapter 318. Any such person who makes a false affidavit concerning such licenses commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(b) All surrendered licenses may be returned by the department to the issuing jurisdiction together with information that the licensee is now licensed in a new jurisdiction or may be destroyed by the department, which shall notify the issuing jurisdiction of such destruction. A person may not have more than one valid driver’s license at any time.
(c) Part-time residents of this state issued a license that is valid within this state only under paragraph (b) as that paragraph existed before November 1, 2009, may continue to hold such license until the next issuance of a Florida driver’s license or identification card. Licenses that are identified as “Valid in Florida Only” may not be issued or renewed effective November 1, 2009. This paragraph expires June 30, 2017.
(2) Prior to issuing a driver’s license, the department shall require any person who has been convicted two or more times of a violation of s. 316.193 or of a substantially similar alcohol-related or drug-related offense outside this state within the preceding 5 years, or who has been convicted of three or more such offenses within the preceding 10 years, to present proof of successful completion of or enrollment in a department-approved substance abuse education course. If the person fails to complete such education course within 90 days after issuance, the department shall cancel the license. Further, prior to issuing the driver’s license the department shall require such person to present proof of financial responsibility as provided in s. 324.031. For the purposes of this paragraph, a previous conviction for violation of former s. 316.028, former s. 316.1931, or former s. 860.01 shall be considered a previous conviction for violation of s. 316.193.
(3)(a) The department may not issue a commercial driver’s license to any person who is not a resident of this state.
(b) A resident of this state who is required by the laws of this state to possess a commercial driver’s license may not operate a commercial motor vehicle in this state unless he or she possesses a valid commercial driver’s license issued by this state. Except as provided in paragraph (c), any person who violates this paragraph is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(c) Any person whose commercial driver’s license has been expired for a period of 30 days or less and who drives a commercial motor vehicle within this state is guilty of a nonmoving violation, punishable as provided in s. 318.18.
(4) A person may not operate a motorcycle unless he or she holds a driver’s license that authorizes such operation, subject to the appropriate restrictions and endorsements.
(5) It is a violation of this section for any person whose driver’s license has been expired for more than 6 months to operate a motor vehicle on the highways of this state.
(6) A person who is charged with a violation of this section, other than a violation of paragraph (a) of subsection (1), may not be convicted if, prior to or at the time of his or her court or hearing appearance, the person produces in court or to the clerk of the court in which the charge is pending a driver’s license issued to him or her and valid at the time of his or her arrest. The clerk of the court is authorized to dismiss such case at any time prior to the defendant’s appearance in court. The clerk of the court may assess a fee of $5 for dismissing the case under this subsection.
History.—s. 15, ch. 19551, 1939; CGL 1940 Supp. 4151(629); s. 15, ch. 20451, 1941; s. 2, ch. 29721, 1955; s. 2, ch. 61-457; s. 1, ch. 63-156; s. 2, ch. 65-496; s. 24, ch. 73-334; s. 3, ch. 78-394; s. 2, ch. 80-308; s. 1, ch. 84-139; s. 10, ch. 86-185; s. 3, ch. 86-296; s. 17, ch. 87-161; s. 3, ch. 88-50; s. 16, ch. 89-282; s. 11, ch. 91-255; s. 73, ch. 94-306; s. 927, ch. 95-148; s. 10, ch. 2009-183; s. 27, ch. 2010-162.

as per (1) a person (US Citizen, alien, you, me) may not drive in Florida unless they have a valid FL license (except if they are exempt from getting one)

so we are required to get a FL license in the first place, unless we meet the exemption criteria mentionnend in statute 322.04

let me put it yet another way : statute 322.03 requires that a person is required to get a Florida License to operate a motor vehicle on FL roads, unless they are authorized by another article in chapter 322, and that relevant article for us is 322.04 indicating that visitors should both have a national license and an IDP.

 

[orangetiggs]

Has anyone actually asked the rental car companies?

Lots of dis members in fl at the moment, they all might have cars, do they have one?

 

[Elise79]

I understand what you say, but you are required to get a FL License to be allowed to drive on FL roads, UNLESS you are exempt as per the statute quoted above (including the need for an IDP)

here is the relevant statute



as per (1) a person (US Citizen, alien, you, me) may not drive in Florida unless they have a valid FL license (except if they are exempt from getting one)

so we are required to get a FL license in the first place, unless we meet the exemption criteria mentionnend in statute 322.04

let me put it yet another way : statute 322.03 requires that a person is required to get a Florida License to operate a motor vehicle on FL roads, unless they are authorized by another article in chapter 322, and that relevant article for us is 322.04 indicating that visitors should both have a national license and an IDP.

Playing devils advocate here - but how I can be exempt for getting something that I can not actually apply for? I can not apply for a FL as I am not resident in FL

 

[wayneg]

Has anyone actually asked the rental car companies?

Lots of dis members in fl at the moment, they all might have cars, do they have one?

Someone has had a reply from USrentacar on the Dibb

"We are aware of an ambiguous alteration to Florida driving laws, however when speaking to the suppliers none of them have confirmed that this is relevant to car rental.
We have asked them if it would effect insurances, which they have verbally stated it would not.
Of course, we would never withhold information from our customers, I think I should make it clear that over 2000 customers have collected vehicles this year without any problems, a small minority of these have been involved in accidents and remain fully insured."


They are currently putting together a blog post which will hopefully go live this week detailing confirmation from each supplier.

 

[orangetiggs]

Thanks wayne, not on the dibb so didnt see that

 

[wilma-bride]

I understand what you say, but you are required to get a FL License to be allowed to drive on FL roads, UNLESS you are exempt as per the statute quoted above (including the need for an IDP)

here is the relevant statute



as per (1) a person (US Citizen, alien, you, me) may not drive in Florida unless they have a valid FL license (except if they are exempt from getting one)

so we are required to get a FL license in the first place, unless we meet the exemption criteria mentionnend in statute 322.04
let me put it yet another way : statute 322.03 requires that a person is required to get a Florida License to operate a motor vehicle on FL roads, unless they are authorized by another article in chapter 322, and that relevant article for us is 322.04 indicating that visitors should both have a national license and an IDP.

Or unless you are a non-resident as per the link above (and extract below)...

322.031 Nonresident; when license required.—

(1) In every case in which a nonresident, except a nonresident migrant or seasonal farm worker as defined in s. 316.003(61), accepts employment or engages in any trade, profession, or occupation in this state or enters his or her children to be educated in the public schools of this state, such nonresident shall, within 30 days after the commencement of such employment or education, be required to obtain a Florida driver’s license if such nonresident operates a motor vehicle on the highways of this state. The spouse or dependent child of such nonresident shall also be required to obtain a Florida driver’s license within that 30-day period prior to operating a motor vehicle on the highways of this state.
(2) A member of the United States Armed Forces on active duty in this state shall not be required to obtain a Florida driver’s license under this section solely because he or she enters his or her children to be educated in the public schools of this state if he or she has a valid military driving permit or a valid driver’s license issued by another state.
(3) A nonresident who is domiciled in another state and who commutes into this state in order to work shall not be required to obtain a Florida driver’s license under this section solely because he or she has accepted employment or engages in any trade, profession, or occupation in this state if he or she has a valid driver’s license issued by another state. Further, any person who is enrolled as a student in a college or university and who is a nonresident but is in this state for a period of up to 6 months engaged in a work-study program for which academic credits are earned from a college whose credits or degrees are accepted for credit by at least three accredited institutions of higher learning, as defined in s. 1005.02, shall not be required to obtain a Florida driver’s license for the duration of the work-study program if such person has a valid driver’s license issued by another state. Any nonresident who is enrolled as a full-time student in any such institution of higher learning is also exempt from the requirement of obtaining a Florida driver’s license for the duration of such enrollment.
(4) A nonresident who is at least 21 years of age and who has in his or her immediate possession a valid commercial driver’s license issued in substantial compliance with the Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 may operate a motor vehicle of the type permitted by his or her license to be operated in this state.

I read that as stating that, unless you are included in the examples above, if you are a non-resident you do not have to have a FL licence.

 

[chmurf]

I read that as stating that, unless you are included in the examples above, if you are a non-resident you do not have to have a FL licence.

well ... partly correct

It states that if you are included in those examples, you DO need to get a FL license

It doesn't mean that if you are not included in those examples, you do not have to have a license that's valid in Florida

In other words, as a non resident, if you do engage in the activities mentionnend in that article, you DO need to get a FL license as any other form of permit will no longer be sufficient.

The other articles state that you do need a valid driver's license in Florida, and that a driver's license that's valid in florida is either a florida issued license, OR a license from another US state OR it is a foreign license accompanied by an IDP

 

[wilma-bride]

If you take the document in context and in order, Chapter 322.03 states that you must be licenced except as a non-resident unless you fall into the categories stated in Chapter 322.031 (a sub-chapter to 322.03 as indicated by the numbering). Chapter 322.04 deals with those exempt from obtaining a licence but, as a non-resident who does not fall into the categories contained in Chapter 322.031 you are already exempt from having to obtain a FL licence and thereby Chapter 322.04 does not apply anyway.

It is fairly simple really

 

[chmurf]

you are already exempt from having to obtain a FL licence and thereby Chapter 322.04 does not apply anyway.

ok, let me try another angle here.

What purpose does 322.04 serve then ?

322.04 is the article that exempts you from getting a FL license.

If not, how can the following item have any meaning or purpose ?

(c)A nonresident who is at least 16 years of age operating a motor vehicle of the type for which a Class E driver license is required in this state if the nonresident has in his or her immediate possession:
1.A valid noncommercial driver license issued in his or her name from another state or territory of the United States; or
2.An International Driving Permit issued in his or her name in his or her country of residence and a valid license issued in that country.

If you read in context and order

322.03 : a driver must have A license (any kind of license as defined by the whole chapter 322)
322.031 : if the nonresident is engaged in the activities mentionned in the article, then it is mandatory to get a FL License within 30 days

if the non resident is not engaged in such activities, then 322.03 still applies : a driver must have a license in one of the forms provided by chapter 322


then 322.04 states that a non resident does not need to obtain a FL license if they can produce a national license and an IDP

I understant that somewhere between 322.031 and 322.04 it might be tempting to consider that 322.04 does not apply to us (non residents) but there is no reason to deduce that at all.

322.031 states the specific cases in which a non resident HAS TO get a FL License, but never does it states that this condition is final to the capacity of being exempted from getting a license. It's a step, not an end point.

 

[wilma-bride]

chmurf, we are clearly never going to agree on this. You do what you believe is necessary and I will do what I believe is necessary (which, at this stage, is nothing). As you have already stated that you need/have an IDP anyway, I am not entirely sure whether you are trying to convince me or others but, either way, people can read this thread, the information available and the other updates provided (e.g. from car hire companies' Ts&Cs) and make an informed decision for themselves.

 

[chmurf]

I am not entirely sure whether you are trying to convince me or others but

Let me put it in simple terms :
I prefer that this argument be held here, on the DIS, comfortably at home, rather than see a DISer have to "argue" about this before a US court/judge when they're charged with driving without a license.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, I'm just stating facts and official texts.
I wouldn't bother to write such long diatribes if I were not convinced (with a certain level of expertise) that these articles can be interpreted in such fashion that the IDP be required for non residents.
As you said, I have an IDP, and I could just let it go keep my mouth shut, so I'm either a troll or someone who genuinely wants to help.

My sole purpose is to state what seems obvious and legal to me, when I consider that some of us could be at risk encountering the odd cop who's had a bad day and who will give the poor unsuspecting Brit a ticket or a citation, that could ruin a day or a vacation.

Now let's agree to disagree and leave it at this. As you said DISers are educated enough to make their own decision


EDIT : in order for everyone to make up their own minds, here is the 2012 Bill Summary from the Florida Senate which sums up (in more clear terms than the statutes) the changes in the regulations

http://www.flsenate.gov/Committees/billsummaries/2012/html/221 (effective Jan. 1st 2013)

here is what the summary says regarding our topic :

Revises provisions exempting a nonresident from the requirement to obtain a driver license.
Specifically, international visitors are permitted to use an International Driving Permit (IDP) issued in his or her name by their country of residence to operate a motor vehicle of the type for which a Class E driver license is required. The person must be in immediate possession of both an IDP and a valid driver license issued in the persons country of residence.

 

[Magic Megadegs]

£5.50 folks, probably not worth the risk, especially in (arguably) one if the most litigious nations on earth.

On a lighter note, almost all ADR's booked, just one more to go and got all our first choice times (just 2 were 10 mins later than requested) woop!

 

[wayneg]

£5.50 folks, probably not worth the risk, especially in (arguably) one if the most litigious nations on earth.

£5.50, 25 mile round trip to the nearest PO (Leeds) that supply these documents and close the business for half a day while I go do it.

If this is something we have to get then they have to get the message across. As it stands now Car rental companies say we don't need it as far as they know but seeking clarification and Travel agents have no idea what we are talking about (nothing new there)
I estimate less than 1% of people who goto Florida read these forums, of those 1% maybe half will buy this permit. 99.5% will be going without it. It has to be made clearer by car rental companies and Travel companies IF we need it.

 

[Tinks1984]

From the AA website...with regards to driving in the USA...

J – IDP recommended as, in the event of an accident, some insurance companies will insist on seeing one. Additionally those licences which do not incorporate a photograph need to be accompanied by photographic proof of identity.

So, as far as I see, it's not compulsary at the present time, but could possibly have problems arise if, goodness forbid, any of our Dis'ers have an accident with another vehicle who holds insurance with a company who require them.

Also, my Mum would need one if she wished to drive, as she only currently holds an old-style UK licence. No photo-card.

 

[MrRomance]

Here's my take on it...

If there has been a change in statute, the state, tourist board, car rental companies etc. have an obligation to ensure that people have the relevant information.

Laws don't change overnight. If there has been some sort of change, the it will have been in the pipeline for a while. Similar to when the smoking ban came in to effect, everyone knew months in advance that on a set date, the ban came into force. The fact that none of the car hire companies are not informing customers that they need an IDP, tells me that something is amiss here.

Let's look at this logically... it is NOT in the interests of Alamo, Dollar, Avis etc. for their customers to hire vehicles from them without adequate paperwork or invalidated insurance. If I (as a tourist) hire a car with one of these companies, and I am not legally driving or my insurance is invalid, any accident or problem I have isn't covered so neither is their car! The car is an asset to their business and they're going to want it repaired or replaced FAST! If the matter is tied up in insurance wrangles, that won't happen.

I think we need to wait and see what comes out from the car hire companies.

 

[bubblefactory]

If you take the document in context and in order, Chapter 322.03 states that you must be licenced except as a non-resident unless you fall into the categories stated in Chapter 322.031 (a sub-chapter to 322.03 as indicated by the numbering). Chapter 322.04 deals with those exempt from obtaining a licence but, as a non-resident who does not fall into the categories contained in Chapter 322.031 you are already exempt from having to obtain a FL licence and thereby Chapter 322.04 does not apply anyway.

It is fairly simple really

I spoke to the AA IDP dept. this morning and they have just got back to me after checking with their AAA counterparts and their US legal team. The net result of which is that they appear to agree with you.

I have requested confirmation in writing (by email) but it hasn't arrived yet.