$95 Fee?

[amomma23]

I was just browsing some DVC rentals available on eBay. A few of the listings mentioned this $95 fee that would be collected at check-in. I don't remember seeing this listed on the rent/transfer boards here. Is that legit? What is it?

 

[Tink10]

If you see a $95 fee, it means it's an RCI rental...Which is against the terms & conditions of RCI.

I wouldn't do it...there's a chance you may show up and not have a ressie.

 

[spiceycat]

those should be about half price what a dvc member would charge.

 

[JimMIA]

If you see a $95 fee, it means it's an RCI rental...Which is against the terms & conditions of RCI.

I wouldn't do it...there's a chance you may show up and not have a ressie.

Exactly right. DVC does not charge a $95 fee for rentals from a DVC owner. The only situation where a $95 fee would be collected would be if the reservation were an exchange through RCI.

Renting RCI exchanges violates the rules of both RCI and DVC. If detected - and it's brain-dead simple to detect by either company - the likely response is to simply cancel the reservation. You arrive, and are told, "Too bad, so sad, you got had."

Renting a DVC reservation on eBay involving a $95 fee at checking is one of the most risky rentals you would ever do.

 

[amomma23]

To be honest I had no intentions of renting from anyone on ebay. I just searched out of curiosity. It struck me as strange and I had never seen a fee before in a rental listing. Thanks for the replies. Good to know!

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

what good is it when dvc does nothing to stop it?

it just like the parking.....& because they don't, the guests are
forced to park in the back or do active problem solving by
reporting & waiting for the tow truck.

 

[dianeschlicht]

what good is it when dvc does nothing to stop it?

it just like the parking.....& because they don't, the guests are
forced to park in the back or do active problem solving by
reporting & waiting for the tow truck.

Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean here. I don't recall anything being asked about parking.

 

[Dean]

what good is it when dvc does nothing to stop it?

it just like the parking.....& because they don't, the guests are
forced to park in the back or do active problem solving by
reporting & waiting for the tow truck.

It's not DVC's concern, it's only a concern of RCI. You forget that these units are already gone to DVC members, they now belong to RCI. The only question is who is staying in the unit that is NOT a DVC owner or at least not using their points to do so. RCI is fairly active in policing this area but they can't get everything. While it may (really doesn't) hurt RCI, there is absolutely no harm to DVC or it's members. Actually the reverse if someone ends up buying as a result of a single trip.

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

i disagree.

we pay the dues.

as for the other part, i think dvc should be required to show
that for example a blt owner made a trade in & not just
another resort and /or that they are not just adding
their own inventory.

like to see exactly what all the conditions/benefits dvc
owners are getting and/or additional money exchanges
the dvc co. are getting. ( of course, i think these are
2 different values ).

oh, fyi~ when we stayed @ blt the first time, i spent some
time socializing with other guests that were staying there
under different "combinations"--liked certain co. benefits,
..eh, some inside disney connections. thought it was very
interesting & they didn't mind talking.

it just like some posters here, trying to work their rci trades
to do big family events....while that makes sense, "others"
i think are for holding dom-like parties. i remember seeing
some "playboy" liked parties, that made me concern by the
damages being reported from the workers.

but i get your point, if it is up to rci to take actions, & dvc
to monitor their actions if they do not stop it- then dvc
needs to stop the rci connection.

i really respect your input. i think your advice is as solid
as concrete. ( i listen to it a lot.).

so why isn't rci stopping them?

 

[Dean]

i disagree.

we pay the dues.

as for the other part, i think dvc should be required to show
that for example a blt owner made a trade in & not just
another resort and /or that they are not just adding
their own inventory.

like to see exactly what all the conditions/benefits dvc
owners are getting and/or additional money exchanges
the dvc co. are getting. ( of course, i think these are
2 different values ).

oh, fyi~ when we stayed @ blt the first time, i spent some
time socializing with other guests that were staying there
under different "combinations"--liked certain co. benefits,
..eh, some inside disney connections. thought it was very
interesting & they didn't mind talking.

it just like some posters here, trying to work their rci trades
to do big family events....while that makes sense, "others"
i think are for holding dom-like parties. i remember seeing
some "playboy" liked parties, that made me concern by the
damages being reported from the workers.

but i get your point, if it is up to rci to take actions, & dvc
to monitor their actions if they do not stop it- then dvc
needs to stop the rci connection.

i really respect your input. i think your advice is as solid
as concrete. ( i listen to it a lot.).

so why isn't rci stopping them?

IMO the only place one could argue harm to DVC or it's member's is in the area of rental price undercutting. Given that those concerned in this area are normally somewhat to totally anti renting, I don't think it makes any difference there as well. These rooms are totally gone to DVC members even if RCI lets them sit empty. The other valid issue is that rules are meant to be followed, unfortunately we see that one broken almost daily by members simply by posts on this board.

Some developers actually place units in RCI themselves for the simple purpose of generating fresh meat for timeshare presentations, they're called developer deposits. It would make no sense for DVC to do so unless they were going to go after such a group to strongly encourage them to tour. Other developers also do cheap rentals tied to a timeshare presentation requirement, again it only makes sense if you're going to be aggressive enough to get a certain % to buy.

As for why RCI's not able to stop it, I know historically they have gone after it fairly aggressively as has II. Based on that info I'd assume they are stopping much of it, just not all of it. But regardless, unless you're competing for a rental using your DVC points, it doesn't hurt you in any way. Personally I don't buy the argument that this group is more likely to cause damage than the rest. I also don't have any patience for the attitude that it's a club and others should be excluded whenever possible.

 

[Chuck S]

I also don't have any patience for the attitude that it's a club and others should be excluded whenever possible.

I agree, it is a matter of marketing semantics. A "Club" sells better than a "Timeshare." But in reality, both legally and operationally, DVC is a timeshare.

And the points retained by DVC, as well as unsold points, can be used in any way that Disney/DVC sees fit, including discount promotions, giveaways, cast member discounted stays, celebrity housing during a WDW visit or just general rentals. Those points are not owned or controlled by members. It would be like you demanding that your neighbor buy a particular brand of refrigerator...it isn't your concern, it doesn't affect you.

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

true,

..but my interest/s is to "figure out" what we are "up against"
when we are using our dvc points so we can plan accordingly.

my take is that dvc is a business. and there some practices
in this business that can help or hurt our personal interests.
some are being kept in secret but are being spilled out by
those given these "privileges" without realizing they should
be. when i think about some telling me how they got their
room, i first thought they were avoiding the truth. now i
feel they were giving accurate accounts , which is motivating
me to "pay" closer attention to what really going on
behind the dvc structure. more than anything else.

however, there one point i was wondering about is the "losses"
to the rci owners that are following the rules. we are not rci
owners -though we have several friends that are---& i have
many here trying so hard for trading purposes. now to read
about e-bay browsers finding these abusers doing this...
doesn't rci have an obligation to protect those trying to do
it right? ( their owners).

the only reason why i am concern about damages , is the
effect on our dues. and then to see first hand damages that
met the definition of criminal acts....& then hearing the workers
frustrations..and even "adding" worst damages ...and where the
managers ignored...thus as an owner, i felt dvc failed & it should
have to pay for the damages ,not the owners. now when looking
@ this likely sources, i think there are certain groupings are
more likely. that does not mean any person /group is not
capable...& anyone committing willful damages should have
been held responsible.

my own opinions of rci owners, are reading /listening to those
posting here. it has been well defined. the usefulness for
dvc owners is a waste from these sources. i am still waiting
to read something positive in values/applications. but i am
not against rci , instead i feel dvc is responsible for not
making rci options easy/better for dvc owners to experience.

saw your comments about the 95$ fee. never gave it thought,
but i thought you made an excellent point. my best guess,
dvc will add that to their "profits" under a processing statement.

 

[bwvBound]

saw your comments about the 95$ fee. never gave it thought,
but i thought you made an excellent point. my best guess,
dvc will add that to their "profits" under a processing statement.

I've assumed the $95 fee charged to the inbound exchange guest was the other half of the full exchange fee charged by RCI to DVC on behalf of the DCV member who booked an RCI exchange against their DVC points.

A typical RCI exchange fee, for normal RCI members under normal circumstances, is $199 if booked online or $209 if booked by phone. DVC members get a break with the special $95 outbound exchange and I'd think the balance is then made up by the inbound guest.

 

[Dean]

I've assumed the $95 fee charged to the inbound exchange guest was the other half of the full exchange fee charged by RCI to DVC on behalf of the DCV member who booked an RCI exchange against their DVC points.

A typical RCI exchange fee, for normal RCI members under normal circumstances, is $199 if booked online or $209 if booked by phone. DVC members get a break with the special $95 outbound exchange and I'd think the balance is then made up by the inbound guest.

DVC officials have acknowledged in the past they essentially use it to pay for the exchange system itself on their end. A function that could and IMO should come under the management fee. There is not a single option that the exchanger gets for this fee that they do not have access to without the fee including ME and dining. All you could argue is for requests.

 

[Dean]

true,

..but my interest/s is to "figure out" what we are "up against"
when we are using our dvc points so we can plan accordingly.

my take is that dvc is a business. and there some practices
in this business that can help or hurt our personal interests.
some are being kept in secret but are being spilled out by
those given these "privileges" without realizing they should
be. when i think about some telling me how they got their
room, i first thought they were avoiding the truth. now i
feel they were giving accurate accounts , which is motivating
me to "pay" closer attention to what really going on
behind the dvc structure. more than anything else.

however, there one point i was wondering about is the "losses"
to the rci owners that are following the rules. we are not rci
owners -though we have several friends that are---& i have
many here trying so hard for trading purposes. now to read
about e-bay browsers finding these abusers doing this...
doesn't rci have an obligation to protect those trying to do
it right? ( their owners).

the only reason why i am concern about damages , is the
effect on our dues. and then to see first hand damages that
met the definition of criminal acts....& then hearing the workers
frustrations..and even "adding" worst damages ...and where the
managers ignored...thus as an owner, i felt dvc failed & it should
have to pay for the damages ,not the owners. now when looking
@ this likely sources, i think there are certain groupings are
more likely. that does not mean any person /group is not
capable...& anyone committing willful damages should have
been held responsible.

my own opinions of rci owners, are reading /listening to those
posting here. it has been well defined. the usefulness for
dvc owners is a waste from these sources. i am still waiting
to read something positive in values/applications. but i am
not against rci , instead i feel dvc is responsible for not
making rci options easy/better for dvc owners to experience.

saw your comments about the 95$ fee. never gave it thought,
but i thought you made an excellent point. my best guess,
dvc will add that to their "profits" under a processing statement.

While I understand that many of us simply want to understand the ground rules, IMO, this is not an area where it affects DVC members in ANY way unless they exchange in or try to using other RCI or BVTC options. Frankly, I don't buy the idea that exchangers or renters are more likely to do damage, there's no proof to this and it really doesn't make sense when you analyze it. Given that most owners are doing 1-2 weeks a year in different resorts and different units, DVC is really a rental car even for owners. Put another way, I do not believe for a second that a single member is likely to be more protective simply because they are a member. Thus those that respect other people's property will behave accordingly as will those who don't. We agree that DVC should be more aggressive going after those who cause damage no matter who it is. I think the problem from this board is that many people here are so afraid that someone will be hit that didn't actually cause the damages that they would prefer just to let it all go. It is my opinion that there are circumstances where it's clear that the damages were severe enough to warrant charging and clearly issues that could be attributed to a specific reservation. Obviously this is an area where they need to be sure and I'm sure they are/will be when needed. I'm sure they do this at times but it appears they don't do so aggressively enough. The reality though is that we wouldn't know otherwise since DVC would not advertise it. The only way we'd know is if anyone posted somewhere and if they did I wouldn't expect them to say it was their fault so they would likely be complaining they were charged inappropriately.

The only losses to RCI members is that someone got the exchange and rented it and someone else didn't. RCI's reasons for this rule is for their own profit and protection, not that of the owners.

DVD is a business, DVCMC is a business to a degree but a somewhat static one, DVC as a club is not a business. I still feel you have far too much of a conspiracy theory view of DVC to justify owning. If you are that distrustful and that convinced they are not appropriate, it seems you shouldn't play in their game because it is and always will be their game.

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

caught me off guard since most of your previous input
avoided personal feelings. other than being an owner,
do you have dvc associations you are relying on?
( since we have never met or done any business is
why i am asking)

club vs business , i sorta find it interesting that yo are projecting
the "club label". whatever it is refer to, isn't as important
to us; only what is being done to prevent waste & destruction-
and the misuses. on the flip side, there are great room for
quality improvements esp. the things they already control,
direct ,resales,trading & the renting. so many in~deeds,
it is a "take your pick" situation.

so you think it is a game? i think you know exactly why you
are making this reference to & could write a book. but i guess
you would want to be done using dvc first?



i was disappointed that no poster here gives any good reason
for dvc to have rci relationship.....so if you was in charge,
what would you set up to make this a workable exchange..
for both sides?

however, i get the feeling if you was a dvc manager, you would
be stopping the rci trades,based on the recent dvc expansions
& the effect this would have on the resorts, esp. not connected
to the parks.

the effect i think this would have...by limiting their product to
"high -ended" depart. stores per say, would immediately
increase the demands & the prices for direct & resales would
go up, way up...and the "values" to any dvc resort -park
connected or not-would have greater values.

 

[Chuck S]

i was disappointed that no poster here gives any good reason
for dvc to have rci relationship..

Are you asking why DVC has any trade relationships with non_Disney timeshares trading companies...or are you asking why DVC trades with RCI vs II?

In our documents, it states that having a trading partner is not guaranteed, but that DVC will make every effort to have such trades available...so it is part of the original plan and design for DVC to have a trading partner.

As to whether that partner should be RCI...the choices are pretty limited for trading companies..RCI and Interval International are the biggest, and really only choices, available. RCI has other resources that make it attractive to Disney and DVC, including being able to use the RCI family of sites to rent cash reservations.

RCI was the original DVC trading partner, then they switched to II, and now they are back with RCI. No doubt, whichever company gives the best deal or most selection, will get the contract whenever it comes up renewal...or DVC may simply plan on switching between the two occasionally.

 

[Dean]

caught me off guard since most of your previous input
avoided personal feelings. other than being an owner,
do you have dvc associations you are relying on?
( since we have never met or done any business is
why i am asking)

club vs business , i sorta find it interesting that yo are projecting
the "club label". whatever it is refer to, isn't as important
to us; only what is being done to prevent waste & destruction-
and the misuses. on the flip side, there are great room for
quality improvements esp. the things they already control,
direct ,resales,trading & the renting. so many in~deeds,
it is a "take your pick" situation.

so you think it is a game? i think you know exactly why you
are making this reference to & could write a book. but i guess
you would want to be done using dvc first?



i was disappointed that no poster here gives any good reason
for dvc to have rci relationship.....so if you was in charge,
what would you set up to make this a workable exchange..
for both sides?

however, i get the feeling if you was a dvc manager, you would
be stopping the rci trades,based on the recent dvc expansions
& the effect this would have on the resorts, esp. not connected
to the parks.

the effect i think this would have...by limiting their product to
"high -ended" depart. stores per say, would immediately
increase the demands & the prices for direct & resales would
go up, way up...and the "values" to any dvc resort -park
connected or not-would have greater values.

I reread my post, I don't see it as personal at all,just honest and realistic. Truthfully, I think I've responded to you FAR more strongly in the past centered around the idea that I tend to discount the vague details you've shared about your initial purchase, that I've stated it's hard to follow your posts and that you don't quote and tend to respond later such that it's often difficult to tell what you're saying or who you're saying it to.

I have had semi inside info over the years, have owned and investigated a long time and have extensive knowledge in some other areas of timeshares. In general you should consider my posts as my opinion. Where applicable I think you'll find them generally factual and based on knowledge and experience as well but we all make mistakes.

To a degree all of timesharing is a game. Realistically it pits one member against another. We're competing for rooms, views, etc. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say

i think you know exactly why you
are making this reference to & could write a book. but i guess
you would want to be done using dvc first?

If I wanted to try to protect any options I might have, saying nothing would far better serve that end. You can characterize almost all of my posts in one of two categories, honest as I see it or philosophy and principle. The rest are nonsense, mild comedy very light but I tend not to do much of that since I don't treat this as a social gathering as much as some do.

As for why DVC has an exchange company, now RCI and was II, you'd have to ask them, I can't speak for them. My view is that it is a standard part of any timeshare system and they use it to offer options to members and to enhance their sales persona. What would I do if I were in charge, of course I would get all the info I could but assuming there were no major reasons not to do the following, I'd do 3 things. First, I would expand the BVTC and attempt to make it the number one DVC exchange option. Maybe an alliance with companies like Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, Starwood, Bluegreen and Wyndham. Of course I'd exclude resorts below a certain standard and those I felt offered too much competition, I'd expect the other members to do the same. I would then alter the RCI format to a direct membership rather than the corporate membership. That might mean members would have to pay if they wanted to belong to RCI but it'd give them more and better options. I'd also establish a dual affiliation with II. Negatives are that members would then have to pay the RCI membership fee and a higher exchange rate and or the II membership fee. I realize there might be unknown reasons why some of these wouldn't work out as intended but since we don't have any of that info, we'll assume we can do pretty much what we want in redesigning the exchange options.

In the absence of a significant expansion of BVTC, I'd still prefer the other RCI and ? II changes I mentioned above but there are positives and negatives to the current and other membership types. Marriott would be the perfect base for the BVTC IMO. RCI is a better fit for DVC than is II in many ways.

I think it's unreasonable for DVC members to worry about what happens to RCI units once they exit DVC, at least unless they are interested in doing away with ALL exchange options. It doesn't affect them in any way other than possibly emotionally but I see that as petty as well.

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

sorry for not following a specific game plan. yes, sometimes
i forget about a post...and then come across it later,delaying
my responses. other times i like taking my time to re-read
so i am not mistaken of the points they are trying to make.

fyi ~ what a wonderful "wealth" of informatiom that is contained
here. i think it does not mater one's situation, even pos or
negative feeling....or different of opinions.....i have strongly
recommended friends/co-workers to the "dis"..if they are considering
any dvc investments....now or the future. why? because (here)
there are owners from all kinds of backgrounds & experiences
that offer a first-rate education.

* note, better than i expected, & i did not see any value until
after we joined. i only came here for dcl cruises...then found a
great lil' social group. only when we ran into problems did
i seek info here as to validate how/when we should do problem
solving.

i think the type-{resales/direct/combo} of owner a person
brought , also "locks" them on what side of certain issues.
not unexpected...so i think the trends are the safe bet in deciding
what i take from any given thread. right / wrong- is mostly an
opinion to me, but is not what value. instead i am hoping for real/reality
tools that we can do better using our points. ( one area that i have
seen keep repeating ....are threads debating walking. now applying
it to me, "i" could care about what others think of us...
for using something allowed by the rules,..as long as it is a workable
tool). time & time again...many prefers others to believe- they would
never /ever use it. almost like a shaming type of manipulation. i just
don't get it..except i think (also my wife)...they are doing it
but are trying to discourage others @ the same time.

though we have no personal exchanges, is why i made certain
presentations, to demonstrate my observations & learning
from your responses to others. nor am i doing it to "flatter"
your advice, but because it is highly functioning..for dvc
owners. so when i made the suggestion about a book,
i wasn't kidding.

i am "in" the people business so seldom joking with people
feelings....& was raised with values similar from the old
walton's series....( when my boys were growing up , i
used to threaten them to "send" them to grandma walton
when they were misbehavin )- though growing up in the
middle of a rural getto. however , my grandparents own
a traditional farm. here, the majority of my posting are
using a "soap" format --subjective , objective/observation,
assessment/assembly & finally a plan based on suggestion/
and/or conclusion. my career in the health fields covered
most of the specialties...it just the way things work out-
so while it may seem off kilter , it "is/has" the way i am. i
also "practice" the same educational themes in my day to
day living..."not for"..any other purpose than because ,
my life experiences have proven they lead to success.

*too me, success is simply finding your dreams in life
that you was born to do. hint, take it for watt it 's
worth/$$$----what i learn most from my successes~
the largest/biggest requirement is to "trust" your
faith. furthermore, i defined faith is the feelings you
truly believe in,every day.

** i really think the best meaning i can share with others,
is to express how the above gave a person with major
obstacles the life skills to find more successes way beyond
i ever dreamed. which tells the story if i can , than anyone
can too.

now why dvc? just because the person that has given my
life more joy than i imagined.....a place to share the greatest
blessings ..that we shared together..our children. so that's
why i am...to find the "solutions" to make this investment
pay off. that's it. nothing else.

yes, there are more serious problems within our today society.
and why i don't have the intentions for lecturing...i find it
is the duty of health care professionals to do no harm first,
& to redirect via education....toward helping our country
thru our current problems. therefore, i can't stress enough-
.....the most important values we have are from our
families units...passed down from generations....& for all
the obstacles we have......we also have the power to
solve every single one.....but each must begin liked all
problem solving.....by recognizing "exactly" what the
major factors....causing the undesirable outcome. no matter
our feelings, this reality does not change. ever. once
this is accomplished...all the problems can be solved
by corrective measures. hope, is there because it is
a basic human feeling.

***to sell this common sense approach, it is a sad reality
that people die every day...from a lack of knowledge,


personally, the above is me. why share....because i hope
"dean" that you continue sharing your insights....they are
functioning & mostly accurate. even when some bring
the "heat", they have merits toward helping them.

my motivation in all my posts come from my references
to human dynamics--fyi, my guides i used in my profession
to help others thru en~powering by education & coping
skills..that works toward reaching their goals. rule #1,
all life has value/many values & all behaviors have meanings
....making...,

"time" on earth, is one most precious gift. i don't
intend to waste time here. that governs my posts.

thus-
the thingy all 'bout the rci & the dvc situations....alarming to me,
that no one can find any values for dvc owners...over & over,
the only benefit...since reading here ..are for the rci trade in's.
this makes me wonder why those setting this up is not
making it more better for dvc owners....strongly suggest
they have conflict of interests?

so when i read your recommendation that dvc isn't for me,
.... i thought.....first, no denial...and second unfor confirmed
my fears, that the wrong "doers" are going to continue to
take advantage of the dvc connections...& owners are hopeless
to get "what they were promised-paid for. what i like to
do..is copy these exchanges....and meet face to face
the dvc boss/bosses.....because i feel your observations
show what is going on behind dvc management...& there
a real need for problem solving & corrective measures. that
is, i think you recognized my dvc concerns & there are
abusers inside the system..that disney is never going to
address..ever?

i also welcome other rci experts to add their observations
toward dvc, like "chuck"....i think many are confused on
this issue. thanks for considering,

 

[Dean]

I don't want to seem unkind, really I don't, but I can hardly decipher this post. I feel even worse because I think you poured yourself out there in it. I guess I'm just not smart enough to understand them well. I'll answer based on what I think you're saying and hope I'm close.

If you're saying that you feel whether a person bought resale or not determines how they look at things, I'm sure that's true some but not very often. Realistically most people who bought resale still have all the options of a retail purchase. Going forward that will change. Put another way, if you are taking the purchase type as a code to how to take a given person's post, I think you're doing yourself and them a grave disservice.

As for walking, I am not in favor of it but it's currently allowed within the rules so any issue I'd have would be with DVC, not the members. Personally, and I know many disagree, I feel any change should be a cancelation and rebooking which would stop almost all walking. I haven't done so and don't intend to but as long as it's allowed I might have something important enough down the road that I would use the option if still available. As for seeing anyone that posts negatively about it seemingly to try to dissuade others from using it, I don't recall an example where I thought that might be the case. This is an area where I think you are looking for issues where there are none.

There's no need to put my name in quotations, I am not hiding behind a pseudonym, that's my name. I'm not offended but I get the impression you thought otherwise.

I'm not sure why you're hung up on the RCI issues. It does not harm your or another member in any way at all related to the exchanges in or rentals. If anything, it adds value to the other options even for those those that don't contemplate exchanges. Unfortunately for DVC members trying to exchange out it is what it is. The reality is that with any high end timeshare, exchanging is almost always a lost proposition and the things that aren't are very unlikely to come through. I also find that DVC members don't investigate enough or plan far enough out to be successful as a rule. This is another area where I think you are seeing conspiracies where I see none. The reality is that for every exchange in there had to be a DVC member who exchanged out. Plus several of those who do exchange in at times are members also, like myself. I can't speak for others but I am certain that my posts on the subject, if they have any effect, would be to decrease my chances of exchanging in, not increase my chances.

I also seem to recall that you were thinking that some DVC members had a way to get reservations under the table. I have never seen an issue where I thought this was the case.

My reasons for suggesting that I didn't feel you should own DVC is simply that, as best I can interpret your posts, you do not trust DVD/DVC, do not trust any member that posts something different from what you thought was the way it was supposed to be and tend to see conspiracies where there are none. You complain about that you were lied to on your sales presentation and that you were unhappy how it was handled when you complained about it though to my knowledge you have never given specifics enough that we could know whether this is a reasonable judgement or not. That's why I said I discount that it was, that and the FACT that this is not usual for DVD to lie on sales presentations. It happens but isn't routine like some systems. I can hardly think of a positive post from you related to using or owning DVC.

Again, I don't want to be unkind but I also don't want to be dishonest. I know at times some take my posts that I intend as honest and straight forward to be harsh and insensitive but I can assure you that's far from the case as anyone who's asked me for information privately can attest.