Lifting ban on women in front-line infantry

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Yes, that's what I was referring to. I was talking to my Mom about it yesterday. I do not think that men could necessarily handle torture better, but I doubt that the sexual aspect is there with men, as well as pregnancy risks.

I don't know, but considering that U.S. soldiers (both male and female) sexually assaulted POWs held by American armed forces at Abu Graib (and we're supposed to be the "good and disciplined military"), I'm not sure it's that far out of the realm of logic that male POWs are also subjected to sexual assault when taken prisoners by opposing forces.

As we all know, sexual assault is not about sex, it's about power (and abusing that power), and so I don't think the gender of the POW is necessarily relevant. It just psychologically hurts more to think about it happening to women because, as a society, we try to ignore that male sexual assaults also takes place.

 

[Acklander]

I remember a Sociology prof. talking about this and about how many men in the south are in the military and this was a point that he brought up (not to make it a north vs. south discussion, but he just meant that many southern men have been brought up to protect the women around them.). He wasn't being sexist nor was he giving his own opinion so much as just stating that the men may indeed feel the need to protect a woman and put himself or others in danger by giving that protection.

When I was in the military a gazillion years ago, they were in the early stages of allowing women to go airborne. They had the exact same concerns then. During training, the instructors were on the lookout for men who felt the need to step in. Right at the beginning, whenever someone tried to step in and help the instructor was there loudly proclaiming that bullets didn't say male or female on them, so step back, because if I couldn't do it on my own I had no business being there. Within a day or two, the "southern gentlemen" got over it and I was just one of the guys.

 

[donaldlovesdaisy]

I'm all for it. However, women should have to pass the same physical test as men. When you are in combat, a woman will have to go over the same terrain as a guy. They won't get to choose the easier route.

That is exactly how I feel because right now women have different standards in the Physical Fitness aspect for example their required pushups are far less than a male but if they can handle it both physically and mentally have at it !!

 

[luvsJack]

When I was in the military a gazillion years ago, they were in the early stages of allowing women to go airborne. They had the exact same concerns then. During training, the instructors were on the lookout for men who felt the need to step in. Right at the beginning, whenever someone tried to step in and help the instructor was there loudly proclaiming that bullets didn't say male or female on them, so step back, because if I couldn't do it on my own I had no business being there. Within a day or two, the "southern gentlemen" got over it and I was just one of the guys.

So it is addressed in their training. That's good to know. I mean I figured that if it wasn't, it soon would be but just didn't know it was already there.

 

[EllaM]

This is going to sound sexist, but frankly I don't support the idea of women on the frontline. As much as I respect the power of women and the ideals of equality, in war our enemies have no respect for anything. Have we forgotten our chief opponents today have some of the most sexist and brutal attitudes toward women? A woman is stoned to death for adultery because she was raped. Women are to be hidden away behind veils and sold into marriage at the whim of their father.

Sure men may be sexually abused as well (and have been by the mob), but they aren't seen first and foremost as playthings of men.

There's a long brutal history of women in warfare and how they were treated. It is a very ugly history. I don't relish my nieces being forced to repeat that. There's a reason Society put these presumptions that women and children were "protected people" during war. We were too sickened by the horrific things done to these people.

There are a lot of important roles in the military. Not every one has to be treated equally. War is not fought politely or with an inherent respect for humanity. Not unless both opponents share the same core values and even then humanity often gets lost in the brutality of fighting.

 

[Acklander]

So it is addressed in their training. That's good to know. I mean I figured that if it wasn't, it soon would be but just didn't know it was already there.

Oh yeah, this was in the 70's so the point is, they wanted well trained soldiers. They didn't put a difference on it. I was also held to the same physical standards as far as push ups, pull ups, running etc...

 

[lovemygoofy]

This is going to sound sexist, but frankly I don't support the idea of women on the frontline. As much as I respect the power of women and the ideals of equality, in war our enemies have no respect for anything. Have we forgotten our chief opponents today have some of the most sexist and brutal attitudes toward women? A woman is stoned to death for adultery because she was raped. Women are to be hidden away behind veils and sold into marriage at the whim of their father.

Sure men may be sexually abused as well (and have been by the mob), but they aren't seen first and foremost as playthings of men.

There's a long brutal history of women in warfare and how they were treated. It is a very ugly history. I don't relish my nieces being forced to repeat that. There's a reason Society put these presumptions that women and children were "protected people" during war. We were too sickened by the horrific things done to these people.

There are a lot of important roles in the military. Not every one has to be treated equally. War is not fought politely or with an inherent respect for humanity. Not unless both opponents share the same core values and even then humanity often gets lost in the brutality of fighting.

If we all had the same core values or had the same humanity, there wouldn't be war.

This decision is pure grandstanding in my opinion. We are drawing down in wars now and cutting infantry right and left. However, women already fire weapons and die in the heat of battle. That is combat whether people believe it or not. Women are fighter pilots and have already been held as POWs before.

This new allowance of women to combat will take several years to actually introduce into the military with a full on plan.

My husband takes men and women into battle. He trains them all the same because in the end bullets and blood can be shed from both sexes.

 

[Acklander]

This is going to sound sexist, but frankly I don't support the idea of women on the frontline. As much as I respect the power of women and the ideals of equality, in war our enemies have no respect for anything. Have we forgotten our chief opponents today have some of the most sexist and brutal attitudes toward women? A woman is stoned to death for adultery because she was raped. Women are to be hidden away behind veils and sold into marriage at the whim of their father.

Sure men may be sexually abused as well (and have been by the mob), but they aren't seen first and foremost as playthings of men.

There's a long brutal history of women in warfare and how they were treated. It is a very ugly history. I don't relish my nieces being forced to repeat that. There's a reason Society put these presumptions that women and children were "protected people" during war. We were too sickened by the horrific things done to these people.

There are a lot of important roles in the military. Not every one has to be treated equally. War is not fought politely or with an inherent respect for humanity. Not unless both opponents share the same core values and even then humanity often gets lost in the brutality of fighting.

Sure, there are a lot of roles in the military. And combat roles are one of them. Women should be allowed to make their own decisions. Some (such as myself) are just looking for short stints in the service. I chose it as a way to pay for college. Some are looking for full careers and leadership roles. For those people combat is necessary.

 

[bookgirl]

The military is poised to lift the ban on women serving as full-fledged combat infantry. The training for them would remain exactly the same training requirements as the men have to go through, and women would be taken into those units on a volunteer basis.

Your thoughts?

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50572372#50572372

If they meet the requirments then more power to them. I don't have a problem with it.

 

[moon]

If we all had the same core values or had the same humanity, there wouldn't be war.

This decision is pure grandstanding in my opinion. We are drawing down in wars now and cutting infantry right and left. However, women already fire weapons and die in the heat of battle. That is combat whether people believe it or not. Women are fighter pilots and have already been held as POWs before.

This new allowance of women to combat will take several years to actually introduce into the military with a full on plan.

My husband takes men and women into battle. He trains them all the same because in the end bullets and blood can be shed from both sexes.

That's what I saw yesterday in some talk show. That women already fight and die in combat, and it has been happening for a while. They were just not aknowleged for it. That was just unfair, imo.

 

[bookgirl]

Does this mean that girls will finally have to register for the draft at 18 as well? How do people feel about their daughters and sisters and nieces being drafted into service if heaven forbid the draft is instituted?

The same way I feel about my nephews being drafted. What like I'm not supoosed to worry about my nephews going off to war because they're boys? That I wouldn't be proud of a girl serving thier country because they use a bra instead of a athletic cup? That's lame.

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

This is going to sound sexist, but frankly I don't support the idea of women on the frontline. As much as I respect the power of women and the ideals of equality, in war our enemies have no respect for anything. Have we forgotten our chief opponents today have some of the most sexist and brutal attitudes toward women? A woman is stoned to death for adultery because she was raped. Women are to be hidden away behind veils and sold into marriage at the whim of their father.

Sure men may be sexually abused as well (and have been by the mob), but they aren't seen first and foremost as playthings of men.

There's a long brutal history of women in warfare and how they were treated. It is a very ugly history. I don't relish my nieces being forced to repeat that. There's a reason Society put these presumptions that women and children were "protected people" during war. We were too sickened by the horrific things done to these people.

There are a lot of important roles in the military. Not every one has to be treated equally. War is not fought politely or with an inherent respect for humanity. Not unless both opponents share the same core values and even then humanity often gets lost in the brutality of fighting.

I hate to break it to you, but women and children aren't a "protected people" anywhere in war. There are hundreds of thousands of women, if not millions, in war zones in Africa that are raped, and children are being stolen from their families to fight on the front lines repeatedly. While this doesn't happen here, as we don't have a land war being fought within our borders, it's happening everywhere else.

Like other PPs have said, this is really just recognizing what is currently taking place so I think it's long overdue. I also think that if we need to have a draft registry, then girls should also have to register at 18 just like boys.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Oh yeah, this was in the 70's so the point is, they wanted well trained soldiers. They didn't put a difference on it. I was also held to the same physical standards as far as push ups, pull ups, running etc...

Well, for the past 23 or more years the ladies have a different physical test. A test that has smaller walls to go over, lighter backpacks to hike with and so forth.

 

[mhsjax]

The same way I feel about my nephews being drafted. What like I'm not supoosed to worry about my nephews going off to war because they're boys? That I wouldn't be proud of a girl serving thier country because they use a bra instead of a athletic cup? That's lame.

I don't find it lame. I would worry about my sons, but thank God my oldest has come to his senses and decided not to go the military route. But if drafted, I would most likely worry about my DD more. As another pp stated, women are treated very differently in other countries, and I feel that if caught they would be treated far worse than any man.

Now if women want to do this, fine by all means go ahead, but I would never support a draft for women, I really don't support one for men. But if given the choice, I would prefer men.

 

[LBIJim]

The military is poised to lift the ban on women serving as full-fledged combat infantry. The training for them would remain exactly the same training requirements as the men have to go through, and women would be taken into those units on a volunteer basis.

Your thoughts?

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50572372#50572372

Works for me.

Jim

 

[Robbi]

Post menopause woman here but as I remember, PMS is not fun either for the woman or those around her. Get these women to volunteer for front line duty and any war would be over in under 5 seconds.

Seriously though, if a woman wants to fight, let her fight. We can do anything we want to do.

 

[mhsjax]

Post menopause woman here but as I remember, PMS is not fun either for the woman or those around her. Get these women to volunteer for front line duty and any war would be over in under 5 seconds.

Seriously though, if a woman wants to fight, let her fight. We can do anything we want to do.

I think you are on to something here. You also know that women will sync up in their cycle. Never fails. You get a whole front line full of PMS, we would kick *** and take names later, and be done for lunch the next day.

 

[Acklander]

Well, for the past 23 or more years the ladies have a different physical test. A test that has smaller walls to go over, lighter backpacks to hike with and so forth.

I would assume that was job dependent. In the airborne we had the same physical requirements as the men because it was needed. They didn't make lighter parachutes for the woman, so you had to be able to carry your full weight. Same with pull ups, push ups, etc... You needed the upper body strength so you needed to be able to meet the minimum requirement standards set for the program. They didn't have different standards for the men and women.
I guess if you were working in an MOS that didn't require all the lugging or physical stamina it wouldn't matter as much.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I think you are on to something here. You also know that women will sync up in their cycle. Never fails. You get a whole front line full of PMS, we would kick *** and take names later, and be done for lunch the next day.

I'm not sure who'd have it rougher - male comrades, or the enemy

 

[Sanchez]

I would assume that was job dependent. In the airborne we had the same physical requirements as the men because it was needed. They didn't make lighter parachutes for the woman, so you had to be able to carry your full weight. Same with pull ups, push ups, etc... You needed the upper body strength so you needed to be able to meet the minimum requirement standards set for the program. They didn't have different standards for the men and women.
I guess if you were working in an MOS that didn't require all the lugging or physical stamina it wouldn't matter as much.

If that was true in the past it does not seem to be at present. Men and women have vastly different fitness standards for the Army BAC. http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-special-operations/army-airborne-pft

As to the larger question, I am all for equality and women in combat. However, fitness requirements should be the same. Further, women should be required to register for the draft.