If you go to the national indian child welfare page on Facebook they have a wonderful picture of her reading a fairy tale book with her father. Not only does she look happy with him but she is the spitting image of her father. Leave her with her father now and watch her thrive in his love.
Is anyone following the Veronica Rose story?
- Thread starter tammymacb
- Start date
I feel that this adoption seemed shady.
I think the adoptive parents- in their understandable desperation to keep the child they were given- overlooked and swept under the rug valid concerns about whether everything had been done legally.
I think Veronica is now where she belongs and that's all I will say about that.
Oh well one more thing, I am not sure if you legally have to have the parent's permission to post photos of a child? If I were Veronica's dad, I would want them to stop using my child's photographs. The C's are putting Veronica's photos everywhere- online, distributions, fundraising items that are sold etc. It sounds harsh but she is not their child, the adoption was never finalized was it?? I think Veronica's dad has a right to say not to use her photos on all their stuff. I don't know if anyone has addressed this issue, but I'm just saying if I were her dad I would want them to stop posting my child's photos all over the internet and using them in fundraising materials.
I think the adoptive parents- in their understandable desperation to keep the child they were given- overlooked and swept under the rug valid concerns about whether everything had been done legally.
I think Veronica is now where she belongs and that's all I will say about that.
Oh well one more thing, I am not sure if you legally have to have the parent's permission to post photos of a child? If I were Veronica's dad, I would want them to stop using my child's photographs. The C's are putting Veronica's photos everywhere- online, distributions, fundraising items that are sold etc. It sounds harsh but she is not their child, the adoption was never finalized was it?? I think Veronica's dad has a right to say not to use her photos on all their stuff. I don't know if anyone has addressed this issue, but I'm just saying if I were her dad I would want them to stop posting my child's photos all over the internet and using them in fundraising materials.
palmtreegirl
Loving life in Florida
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2003
Yes, hopefully she'll get to stay with her Dad, where she belongs. That would be justice.
I find the attitude that they are saving her worrying. What are they saving her from a loving birth family knowing both of her cultures, from what I hear she is learning both neither of which the paps did. His ex and mother of his older daughter is fighting on his side as she says he is a wonderful father. Also their friends on the save veronica Facebook page are scary threatening to grab her to take her back saying the father will abuse her, all the same kinds of comments being made in the Leah frei adoption case where a man moves due to army orders Carly's on supporting his now ex wife and ten days after he left she snuck over to Utah to put her daughter up for adoption but the freis are saying their heart demands that she stay with them wrong again.
SaraJayne
<font color=red>Stop moving those smilies! <img sr
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2009
No, the adoption was never finalized and Ronnie is not their child. What they are doing is creepy and makes them look desperate and pathetic.
Poohforyou
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
And some people question why some choose to adopt internationally.
Yes because people want a baby so much they don't care if they are part of the world wide baby stealing market.
Poohforyou
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
Yes, every internationally adopted child was snatched from its mother's arms and sold on the black market
.
badblackpug
<font color=blue>If you knew her you would be shoc
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
I don't know what your personal issue with adoption is, nor do I care, but, as an adoptive parent, I find almost every single comment you have made on this thread to be ignorant and quite insulting.
You have taken what are a minority of issues in adoptions and twisted it to suit your own very twisted agenda.
Adoption can be beautiful but you have to ake sure
1 on an domestic adoption both parents are willling other wise forget it
2 that you use a reputable agency for international adoptions the sale of babies is now a multi billion industry and you cant ignore it.
Well, I would not go so far as to say every international adoption is black market. That is a little extreme. I don't think that is true at all.
But what I find disturbing is that I know a lot of people who have adopted internationally and they have admitted that they did that to avoid being involved with the families, having to have a lot of contact with the birth mom, etc. Because here in the US, a lot of people want to have open adoptions and be in contact with their child, whereas within foreign adoptions, there is a lot of distance to seperate you so there cannot be as much contact. You don't have to worry about people from the child's past cropping up into the picture.
Now, I will add that I also know a family that saves up and goes to a foreign country every summer so that their child can visit with their birth family. ...although with them, I always think about how that birth mom gave up her child ONLY because she didn't have the money to raise her...so it is sort of sad that even though she gets to see her child every summer, she is not the one getting to raise the child..when the birth family has enough money, but...rather than helping a child stay with her mom....they get to keep her.
I don't know, I sound like I am against adoption, and I'm NOT. I am in favor of adoption. But...sometimes I feel like if money is the only barrier that keeps you from getting to raise your own child, that's not a god enough reason.
But what I find disturbing is that I know a lot of people who have adopted internationally and they have admitted that they did that to avoid being involved with the families, having to have a lot of contact with the birth mom, etc. Because here in the US, a lot of people want to have open adoptions and be in contact with their child, whereas within foreign adoptions, there is a lot of distance to seperate you so there cannot be as much contact. You don't have to worry about people from the child's past cropping up into the picture.
Now, I will add that I also know a family that saves up and goes to a foreign country every summer so that their child can visit with their birth family. ...although with them, I always think about how that birth mom gave up her child ONLY because she didn't have the money to raise her...so it is sort of sad that even though she gets to see her child every summer, she is not the one getting to raise the child..when the birth family has enough money, but...rather than helping a child stay with her mom....they get to keep her.
I don't know, I sound like I am against adoption, and I'm NOT. I am in favor of adoption. But...sometimes I feel like if money is the only barrier that keeps you from getting to raise your own child, that's not a god enough reason.
badblackpug
<font color=blue>If you knew her you would be shoc
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2005
I have adopted 4 children, all domestically, all privately, I am very aware of what needs to be done.
You have, consistently, throughout this thread, made ignorant and insulting comments about adoptive parents and adoption, in general.
You, very apparently, have an issue with adoption, and, as I said before, you have taken what is a relatively rare, but highly publicized issue, and twisted it to fit your own agenda.
Your comments about adoptive parents and the adoption process have been incredibly rude and insulting.
Poohforyou
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
Both pretty basic concepts in the adoption world.
More their friends at saver veronica rose, from what are they saving her from? A loving father? From knowing the cultures of both of her families? The same arguments being used in this case are being used in the Taleala/leah adoption case a case involving the daughter of a married soldier.
zippingalong
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2012
Veronica's father put in writing (noncontested) that he did not want her and he did not want to pay child support. He did not help support Vs birth mother during the pregnancy nor visit her.
It was only 4 months later, after the birth mother had chosen adoption and carefully chose the couple to raise V did he come back and say, "I changed my mind". If he had been white, or black, Asian, or Middle Eastern...he would not have had the opportunity to do that. State law would have severed his rights and V would be with the family that raised her since she was a newborn.
Instead, because he was some tiny % Indian, he invokes federal law. ( When he originally began his paperwork, he checked the box saying for him, that Indian heritage was "N/A") This isn't the days of "bad white men stealing minority babies". During slave times, if a slave baby was born, it was the property of the plantation. Does adoption involving mixed black/white families invoke federal law? 'Cause we used to steal them too.
This is a law that has had it's day. And according to an attorney who has won all but 1 of the cases she's presented to the Supreme Court, it was not followed the way it was written.
The Supreme Court often hears cases and reverses them. 70% is the average of reversed cases. I so hope, that Veronica is one of them...
It was only 4 months later, after the birth mother had chosen adoption and carefully chose the couple to raise V did he come back and say, "I changed my mind". If he had been white, or black, Asian, or Middle Eastern...he would not have had the opportunity to do that. State law would have severed his rights and V would be with the family that raised her since she was a newborn.
Instead, because he was some tiny % Indian, he invokes federal law. ( When he originally began his paperwork, he checked the box saying for him, that Indian heritage was "N/A") This isn't the days of "bad white men stealing minority babies". During slave times, if a slave baby was born, it was the property of the plantation. Does adoption involving mixed black/white families invoke federal law? 'Cause we used to steal them too.
This is a law that has had it's day. And according to an attorney who has won all but 1 of the cases she's presented to the Supreme Court, it was not followed the way it was written.
The Supreme Court often hears cases and reverses them. 70% is the average of reversed cases. I so hope, that Veronica is one of them...
I hope that it doesn't because they didn't obay the law. Mothers give up children for adoption and in some cases they change their mind after the child has been in the home for a few weeks they are allowed to change their mind the law says both parents can do it. They had to go before tribal court to get him to sign off for the adoption they didn't do it. They are "saving" this child a completely unhealthy attitude to adoption they are not fit to look after a rat let alone a child. Did you see the picture of her with her father she should be with him.
Father is a “parent” under ICWA because he established his paternity and sought custody of his daughter.
Father’s adoption consent was invalid. ICWA requires that consents be “executed in writing and recorded before a judge of a court of competent jurisdiction and accompanied by the presiding judge’s certificate that the…[parent fully understood]… the terms and consequences of the consent.”
The adoption decree can only be granted if Appellants have grounds, under state law and ICWA, for involuntarily terminating Father’s rights.
Because the Appellants did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that “the child will suffer physical or emotional damage if returned to…her biological father,” ICWA would not support termination of Father’s rights.
I found this in one of the court documents for the child and the father about the so called independent GAL
2. The Family Court appointed a guardian ad li- tem (GAL) who has filed a brief in this Court that purports to be on behalf of Baby Girl and asserts that Baby Girls interests would be best served by awarding custody to petitioners. GAL Br. 22. In fact, the GAL is not a neutral party. Although appointed by the Family Court, that court noted that the GAL and her attorney both were unilaterally selected by [petitioners] counsel (Pet. App. 129a); the GAL had a continuing business relationship with petitioners attorney, with whom she had worked frequently in
the past and who had already referred her multiple cases in 2009. Trial Tr. 591-592.
In this case, although the GAL had performed a comprehensive home study of petitioners, she resist- ed repeated requests from Fathers attorney to con- duct a home study of Father. Trial Tr. 619-621. When the GAL finally did conduct such a study, well over a year after her appointment and some five months after counsels request, she informed Father and his family that she knew the adoptive couple prior to the child being placed in their home and had worked with them before the child had been placed (JA 113); that petitioners were a well- educated couple with a beautiful home, could afford to send Baby Girl to any private school that they chose and, when she was older, to any college she wanted; and that there was nothing that Baby Girl needed that petitioners could not buy for her. JA 146-147. The GAL therefore told Fathers family that they really need[ed] to get down on [their] knees and pray to God that [they] can make the right deci- sion for this baby (id. at 148), and they needed to talk to God and pray about taking the child from the only family that she has known (id. at 113). At trial, Father stated that the GAL treated him and his fam- ily as a bunch of * * * rednecks that cant * * * afford anything, that were not able to provide this child with proper education, schooling * * *. Pretty much that we werent fit to love this child and raise her. Trial Tr. 514.
The GALs initial report did not note Baby Girls Native American heritage because the GAL thought that was not something * * * the courts need to take into consideration. Trial Tr. 632. As for the GALs view of Native American culture, she stated that the
advantages of having Native American heritage in- clude[ed] free lunches and free medical care and that they did have their little get togethers and their little dances. Id. at 634.
Given the GALs obvious bias, respondents ini- tially sought her removal. But rather than delay the proceedings, respondents ultimately withdrew this motion on the understanding that the Family Court would not consider either the GALs conclusion re- garding Baby Girls best interests or the GALs cus- tody recommendation. See Pet. App. 51a n.44. In- deed, South Carolina law precludes a guardian ad li- tem in a private adoption from providing a custody recommendation unless one is requested by the court (see S.C. Code § 63-3-830(A)(6)); no such request was made here.
3. After holding a four-day hearing to resolve custody of Baby Girl, the Family Court determined that ICWA applied to the proceeding, rejecting peti- tioners invocation of the so-called existing Indian family doctrine that, petitioners asserted, barred application of ICWA when the Indian child was not part of an Indian family at the time of the proceed- ing. Pet. App. 118a. The court went on to hold that Father meets ICWAs definition of parent because he has both acknowledged paternity and paternity has been conclusively established in this action through DNA testing. Id. at 119a-120a. This meant that the only way this adoption can be granted is if the [petitioners] prove grounds upon which [Fathers] parental rights can be terminated [under South Car- olina law], and prove that custody of the minor child with [Father] is likely to result in serious emotional or physical damage to the child [under ICWA]. Id. at 122a-123a.
http://turtletalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/12-399-bs-birth-father.pdf
2. The Family Court appointed a guardian ad li- tem (GAL) who has filed a brief in this Court that purports to be on behalf of Baby Girl and asserts that Baby Girls interests would be best served by awarding custody to petitioners. GAL Br. 22. In fact, the GAL is not a neutral party. Although appointed by the Family Court, that court noted that the GAL and her attorney both were unilaterally selected by [petitioners] counsel (Pet. App. 129a); the GAL had a continuing business relationship with petitioners attorney, with whom she had worked frequently in
the past and who had already referred her multiple cases in 2009. Trial Tr. 591-592.
In this case, although the GAL had performed a comprehensive home study of petitioners, she resist- ed repeated requests from Fathers attorney to con- duct a home study of Father. Trial Tr. 619-621. When the GAL finally did conduct such a study, well over a year after her appointment and some five months after counsels request, she informed Father and his family that she knew the adoptive couple prior to the child being placed in their home and had worked with them before the child had been placed (JA 113); that petitioners were a well- educated couple with a beautiful home, could afford to send Baby Girl to any private school that they chose and, when she was older, to any college she wanted; and that there was nothing that Baby Girl needed that petitioners could not buy for her. JA 146-147. The GAL therefore told Fathers family that they really need[ed] to get down on [their] knees and pray to God that [they] can make the right deci- sion for this baby (id. at 148), and they needed to talk to God and pray about taking the child from the only family that she has known (id. at 113). At trial, Father stated that the GAL treated him and his fam- ily as a bunch of * * * rednecks that cant * * * afford anything, that were not able to provide this child with proper education, schooling * * *. Pretty much that we werent fit to love this child and raise her. Trial Tr. 514.
The GALs initial report did not note Baby Girls Native American heritage because the GAL thought that was not something * * * the courts need to take into consideration. Trial Tr. 632. As for the GALs view of Native American culture, she stated that the
advantages of having Native American heritage in- clude[ed] free lunches and free medical care and that they did have their little get togethers and their little dances. Id. at 634.
Given the GALs obvious bias, respondents ini- tially sought her removal. But rather than delay the proceedings, respondents ultimately withdrew this motion on the understanding that the Family Court would not consider either the GALs conclusion re- garding Baby Girls best interests or the GALs cus- tody recommendation. See Pet. App. 51a n.44. In- deed, South Carolina law precludes a guardian ad li- tem in a private adoption from providing a custody recommendation unless one is requested by the court (see S.C. Code § 63-3-830(A)(6)); no such request was made here.
3. After holding a four-day hearing to resolve custody of Baby Girl, the Family Court determined that ICWA applied to the proceeding, rejecting peti- tioners invocation of the so-called existing Indian family doctrine that, petitioners asserted, barred application of ICWA when the Indian child was not part of an Indian family at the time of the proceed- ing. Pet. App. 118a. The court went on to hold that Father meets ICWAs definition of parent because he has both acknowledged paternity and paternity has been conclusively established in this action through DNA testing. Id. at 119a-120a. This meant that the only way this adoption can be granted is if the [petitioners] prove grounds upon which [Fathers] parental rights can be terminated [under South Car- olina law], and prove that custody of the minor child with [Father] is likely to result in serious emotional or physical damage to the child [under ICWA]. Id. at 122a-123a.
http://turtletalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/12-399-bs-birth-father.pdf
Here is something for peole who say he never provided for his daughter after her birth
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/04/16/baby-veronica-and-native-american-family-values
Although adoption lawyers for the South Carolina couple filed an adoption action just days after her birth, they waited four months to serve the father with the legal papers finally serving him just before he deployed for his mission in Iraq.
In short, from his first knowledge of the pregnancy, the father expressed nothing but a sincere desire to love, support and care for his child.
Throughout the two-year long court proceedings, the father sent child support payments to the South Carolina couple, which deposited them into their attorneys trust account. The father also purchased stuffed animals and other toys for his daughter during this period all of which were returned, along with the 20 pairs of socks hand-knitted by the childs grandmother.
Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/04/16/baby-veronica-and-native-american-family-values
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/04/16/baby-veronica-and-native-american-family-values
Although adoption lawyers for the South Carolina couple filed an adoption action just days after her birth, they waited four months to serve the father with the legal papers finally serving him just before he deployed for his mission in Iraq.
In short, from his first knowledge of the pregnancy, the father expressed nothing but a sincere desire to love, support and care for his child.
Throughout the two-year long court proceedings, the father sent child support payments to the South Carolina couple, which deposited them into their attorneys trust account. The father also purchased stuffed animals and other toys for his daughter during this period all of which were returned, along with the 20 pairs of socks hand-knitted by the childs grandmother.
Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/04/16/baby-veronica-and-native-american-family-values
zippingalong
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2012
The Supreme Court ruled today. They threw out the SC Court ruling and she will be going home to the parents who have always been there for her. I am over the moon for them.
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