What A Sad, Boring Place

[hopemax]

We know of him, although you probably forgot. He used to post on Laughing Place for a long time, before the pixiedusters ran him off. Now he posts on WDW Magic.

 

[skier_pete]

There are some very respectful posters still on the rumor boards such as figment, skier pete, locked out of logic that r respectful.

Hey I just noticed I was name-checked on page 1! Thanks for thinking I'm respectful. I try to be even when I disagree. I tend to be more forgiving/supportive than a lot of folks on the rumors board, but I don't think I "drink the Kool-Aid" I just think sometimes the things we get upset about on these boards are a bit silly. For example, the whole "Beer/Wine at Be Our Guest = End of the World".

Maybe it's because we don't spend all our vacation time at WDW, or maybe because we go at slower times, but we have not seen the "guest experience" really slip at all, or not noticably. Yeah, I agree that the PRICING has gone past ridiculous: Disney has more or less priced us out of being able to afford a trip without free dining in only 6 years. My income has gone up maybe 10-15 % in that time, while prices have gone up about 30 %. But as far as the experience, I don't see it. The food has rarely ever been great...you have to pick and choose your dining locations, but you always did. We have not had problems with ornery CMs or unclean bathrooms. In fact quite the opposite, the only rude CM experiences we've had were back in our pre-child trips in 1997/2000. I often wonder if its because I ALWAYS take a friendly attitude with the CMs - even if I am upset about something.

Back On Topic: So what does everyone think of Kalogridis being promoted/moved to WDW? Seems to me there's been a lot of folks that think he's done a pretty good job at DLR, and credit him with positive improvements there while at the same time blaming "corporate" for a lot of the negatives.

 

[ToddS]

Holy cow, this is fantastic!! Another Voice, Landbaron, YoHo, Planogirl -- it's so cool to "see" you guys again! I am mostly a lurker, so my post count is pretty low, but I've been here over ten years, and I remember ALL those old threads that Hopemax posted links to (fantastic, btw! thanks Hope!) All this really makes me remember how great the board was back in the day, and how much it is lacking now. As Landbaron pointed out here, the discussion then was so much about the business philosophy, and was incredibly informed and incredibly interesting. Just wanted to take the opportunity to thank those I've listed here, as well as everyone else, for the countless hours of fun reads!

BTW, has Raidermatt checked in on this thread? He's another one that I remember providing a lot of good discussion here.

 

[ToddS]

That was post number 100, BTW. Like I said, not very impressive!

 

[ToddS]

And I should have listed Skier Pete in there as well. Sorry Pete!

 

[Killer Fish]

That was post number 100, BTW. Like I said, not very impressive!

You are like me....mostly a lurker....but always enjoyed watching the conversations.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

And I should have listed Skier Pete in there as well. Sorry Pete!

Jeez! Did you, maybe, possibly, miss another Pete(r)? Sniff, sniff.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Mr. Pirate!!! PETER!!! Old buddy!!

No acknowledgement of my post!!!???

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

And if you don't like what is above, Mr. Pirate, go to:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=63674

I nearly fell on the floor remembering that one!!!!

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

And if you don't like what is above, Mr. Pirate, go to:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=63674

I nearly fell on the floor remembering that one!!!!

Lol! Well, I certainly stand by THAT post!

Mr. Baron, it is true my opinions have wandered quite far from where they were and if pressed I happily admit that you and AV in particular battled me in such good form that things stuck with me as my personal breaking point came and went.

But to be fair, I did argue my points pretty well and do still believe that Eisner was more good than bad en totale. Certainly better than the clown in charge now and if you'll recall I supported giving him his fair shot at the time too. But Iger blew it real fast.

I never argued with you or anyone over Walt's genius nor the way he built everything around his ideals no matter what everyone else told him. Because of his integrity at last some semblance of his dreams can still be seen today, although it continues to diminish. I did always contend that Roy was instrumental in keeping Walt's dream alive and going despite the fact that he wasn't doing it for the "right reasons" per se, you weren't so sure.

Although I admit to changing cars it was more the decline Disney instituted in the all out abandonment of the true meaning of "Disney" as we all saw it, even though our degree of sight was different.

Our battles were fun and sometimes monumental. I had fun!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Everything you just said about our discussions is very, very true. You were a good adversary and NEVER took things personally or dished it out unfairly!!

SO....

Our battles were fun and sometimes monumental. I had fun!

...Bottom line. So did I!!!!!

 

[bcrook]

Back On Topic: So what does everyone think of Kalogridis being promoted/moved to WDW? Seems to me there's been a lot of folks that think he's done a pretty good job at DLR, and credit him with positive improvements there while at the same time blaming "corporate" for a lot of the negatives.

What do you think needs to be done at WDW? I can't quite identify what that is. I do feel that the FP+ swindle is not it. I am not even sure that the FP+ is going to change my park experience much, but it still burns me up to think that so much money and energy has gone into a marketing campaign that doesn't significantly enhance the Disney Experience. They may get lucky, and people will buy into it and they may make bizillions of dollars - but it is still a trick - and they will get less of my money not more because of it.

I am also bummed about New Fantasyland (I haven't been there yet). The theming looks incredible, but there isn't anything new, creative innovative about any of it. Enchanted Tales with Belle isn't even as cool as Turtle Talk. Little Mermaid ride is screaming to be classic water/dark ride with new a twist, and it is a classic dark ride about being under the sea with no new twists and NO WATER. The Mine Train looks about like the Barnstormer. Nothing new.

Think about the excitement and creativity that Walt brought to the 1964 World's Fair. The creativity, vision, and imagination was unmatched. Much of that exhibit made its way into the parks. People seeing that for the first time in 1964 were blown away - amazed! What exactly do we have like that going on right now? Maybe that is what I want to see happening at Disney. That is what is going on over at Islands of Adventure with Harry Potter.

I thought Expedition Everest was exciting (and the line queue is an attraction in itself!!!) and I was lucky enough to see the Yeti work in its full mode one visit a long time ago. That was close (But how long has it been broke? 5-6 years?) TSMM is a popular and fun ride, and creative! - but Pixar Place SCREAMS for additional theming and a greater experience.

I can't really think of any other cutting edge, mind blowing experiences added to Disney since 2004 when I started attending regularly. So we have one great idea and an awesome queue, and one great ride (TSMM) and awful theming surrounding it (including an empty building).

I guess I am asking for the Imagineers to be turned loose! Let them do their thing. There is much work to be done. Maybe they will be able to with all the money Disney will be making of the increased merchandise sales with their magicband program.

 

[disneyphilip]

Lol! Well, I certainly stand by THAT post!

Mr. Baron, it is true my opinions have wandered quite far from where they were and if pressed I happily admit that you and AV in particular battled me in such good form that things stuck with me as my personal breaking point came and went.

But to be fair, I did argue my points pretty well and do still believe that Eisner was more good than bad en totale. Certainly better than the clown in charge now and if you'll recall I supported giving him his fair shot at the time too. But Iger blew it real fast..

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong all around!

Eisner was more bad than good! Iger has not blown it in any way!

 

[disneyphilip]

What do you think needs to be done at WDW? I can't quite identify what that is. I do feel that the FP+ swindle is not it. I am not even sure that the FP+ is going to change my park experience much, but it still burns me up to think that so much money and energy has gone into a marketing campaign that doesn't significantly enhance the Disney Experience. They may get lucky, and people will buy into it and they may make bizillions of dollars - but it is still a trick - and they will get less of my money not more because of it.

I am also bummed about New Fantasyland (I haven't been there yet). The theming looks incredible, but there isn't anything new, creative innovative about any of it. Enchanted Tales with Belle isn't even as cool as Turtle Talk. Little Mermaid ride is screaming to be classic water/dark ride with new a twist, and it is a classic dark ride about being under the sea with no new twists and NO WATER. The Mine Train looks about like the Barnstormer. Nothing new.

Think about the excitement and creativity that Walt brought to the 1964 World's Fair. The creativity, vision, and imagination was unmatched. Much of that exhibit made its way into the parks. People seeing that for the first time in 1964 were blown away - amazed! What exactly do we have like that going on right now? Maybe that is what I want to see happening at Disney. That is what is going on over at Islands of Adventure with Harry Potter.

I thought Expedition Everest was exciting (and the line queue is an attraction in itself!!!) and I was lucky enough to see the Yeti work in its full mode one visit a long time ago. That was close (But how long has it been broke? 5-6 years?) TSMM is a popular and fun ride, and creative! - but Pixar Place SCREAMS for additional theming and a greater experience.

I can't really think of any other cutting edge, mind blowing experiences added to Disney since 2004 when I started attending regularly. So we have one great idea and an awesome queue, and one great ride (TSMM) and awful theming surrounding it (including an empty building).

I guess I am asking for the Imagineers to be turned loose! Let them do their thing. There is much work to be done. Maybe they will be able to with all the money Disney will be making of the increased merchandise sales with their magicband program.

More like asking for too much, if you ask me, combined with being totally wrong on all of your points.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong all around!

Eisner was more bad than good! Iger has not blown it in any way!

Lol. Way to explain your points.

I'll keep it brief. Eisner gave us the Disney decade, which was hands down the making of WDW. Iger has given us the Walmartization of a once great company. 'Nuff said? Baron?

 

[skier_pete]

What do you think needs to be done at WDW? I can't quite identify what that is. I do feel that the FP+ swindle is not it.

I guess I am asking for the Imagineers to be turned loose! Let them do their thing. There is much work to be done.

Well, to be honest, I really hope that they are doing it. They have four theme parks, every year, there should be something new going into one of them. And I don't mean "Let's redo Test Track" level of something new. The FLE is a step in the right direction,something incredibly well themed, but between 2007 and 2012 there was very little new in WDW. (I know FL is geared towards kids, and some complain about that, but I reject that argument, just because something isn't directly for ME doesn't mean its not good.)

Hopefully we will see something along the lines of:

2014 - Seven Dwarfs Mine Car
2015 - Pandora
2016 - Carsland / Starwarsland
2017 - Epcot something?

In addition, I would like to see Disney do something occasionally groundbreaking. I would say Everest was that (had Betty worked) and maybe Toy Story Mania (you may not agree, but just because its a fairly simple ride doesn't means it's not groundbreaking) but not much else. (Maybe the lift mechanism for Soarin', but not the whole experience.)

I don't know how many on this part of the board have had the chance to ride Radiator Springs Racers, but it was the first time I was truly WOWED by a ride at Disney in a long, long time. The level of sophistication of the AA and the experience of the ride and both a dark ride AND a thrill ride was absolutely brilliant. It's the reason I have no problem with the idea of bringing it to DHS.

I also wish they would realize the horrible mistake they made with DTD, and recreate an area where adults can go on their own to enjoy entertainment. I am a huge AC fan, but even if that doesn't return but nightlife does, I would consider that a major improvement.

I guess I just want them to continue to excel at entertainment, and make each new trip and unique as all the previous one. I guess I never understand the people that seem to complain continuously, yet continue to go. There is still so much to like, but the time I take a trip and say "boy this isn't really what it used to be" is the time I stop coming.

SkierPete

P.S. Thank you for the compliments - though I feel that I am not one of the "old-timers" here, as I have only been on since 2006. I think when you are on for a while it gets harder to post, watching the same old topics come up year after year. (Though I enjoy the semi-annual "Oh my god, they're going to stop giving discounts!" threads.)

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I'll keep it brief. Eisner gave us the Disney decade, which was, hands down, the making of WDW. Iger has given us the Walmartization of a once great company. 'Nuff said? Baron?

Are you kidding me!!!!!????? You expect back up with a paragraph like that!!?? I cannot do it! I have to break it down. Backwards!!!

Iger has given us the Walmartization of a once great company. 'Nuff said? Baron?

YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! You are 100% correct!! ‘Nuff said!!!

I'll keep it brief. Eisner gave us the Disney decade, which was, hands down, the making of WDW.

Mr. Pirate!! You were wrong ten years ago and you are still wrong today!! I know it’s a bit of reading but if you’d like a real eye-opener check out this conversation we had quite a while ago. It is well worth the time you spend on it. It explains perfectly just how inept Ei$ner was. Pay particular attention to the posts from “Another Voice”. He was our ‘deep-throat’ of Disney.

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=129817

Welcome Back!!! (for those who actually read the thread). Did you enjoy it? Did you come away with a different perspective on Ei$ner? Or do you still think he the Wonderful Man Who Brought Us The Disney Decade!!??

Anyway, Mr. Pirate, I really don’t know what to say about disneyphilip. My first reaction is that he is nothing but a troll trying to stir the pot. But with 3,553 and joining the DIS in July 2001 (which probably means even earlier as that was when the board (and some IDs, mine included) needed to be reset) I just don’t know.

All I can say for sure is that he is definitely a man of few words! Even if those words are overly broad and entirely WRONG!!!

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Are you kidding me!!!!!????? You expect back up with a paragraph like that!!?? I cannot do it! I have to break it down. Backwards!!!

YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! You are 100% correct!! ‘Nuff said!!!

Mr. Pirate!! You were wrong ten years ago and you are still wrong today!! I know it’s a bit of reading but if you’d like a real eye-opener check out this conversation we had quite a while ago. It is well worth the time you spend on it. It explains perfectly just how inept Ei$ner was. Pay particular attention to the posts from “Another Voice”. He was our ‘deep-throat’ of Disney.

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=129817

Welcome Back!!! (for those who actually read the thread). Did you enjoy it? Did you come away with a different perspective on Ei$ner? Or do you still think he the Wonderful Man Who Brought Us The Disney Decade!!??

Anyway, Mr. Pirate, I really don’t know what to say about disneyphilip. My first reaction is that he is nothing but a troll trying to stir the pot. But with 3,553 and joining the DIS in July 2001 (which probably means even earlier as that was when the board (and some IDs, mine included) needed to be reset) I just don’t know.

All I can say for sure is that he is definitely a man of few words! Even if those words are overly broad and entirely WRONG!!!

Oh Baron. I only expected affirmation on the Iger portion. Plus my description of Eisner was simplistic just to show that no matter how bad he may have been by the end (yes, it was real bad) the Disney decade DID at least grow WDW to what it became, on his watch, even if his motives weren't pure, or was pure greed. How's that?

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Well, to be honest, I really hope that they are doing it. They have four theme parks, every year, there should be something new going into one of them. And I don't mean "Let's redo Test Track" level of something new.

~Very well said. If Disney had done this, along with regular maintenance & upkeep, there would be no need to catch up.

The FLE is a step in the right direction,something incredibly well themed, but between 2007 and 2012 there was very little new in WDW. (I know FL is geared towards kids, and some complain about that, but I reject that argument, just because something isn't directly for ME doesn't mean its not good.)

The new Fantasyland looks gorgeous. I don't know, maybe it is wrong for me to be mildly annoyed when the queue(s) are better than the attraction(s), as we've seen with The Little Mermaid & Dumbo. It feels a tad gimmicky to me, but I really want to be fair. I try to be careful because in certain discussions it does sound like I'm overly criticizing the new FL, but I'm not. I truly appreciate it for what it is & the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train looks amazing -- I can't wait for that!!!

Hopefully we will see something along the lines of:

2014 - Seven Dwarfs Mine Car
2015 - Pandora
2016 - Carsland / Starwarsland
2017 - Epcot something?

~Yes! This sounds like a great plan.

In addition, I would like to see Disney do something occasionally groundbreaking. I would say Everest was that (had Betty worked) and maybe Toy Story Mania (you may not agree, but just because its a fairly simple ride doesn't means it's not groundbreaking) but not much else. (Maybe the lift mechanism for Soarin', but not the whole experience.) I don't know how many on this part of the board have had the chance to ride Radiator Springs Racers, but it was the first time I was truly WOWED by a ride at Disney in a long, long time. The level of sophistication of the AA and the experience of the ride and both a dark ride AND a thrill ride was absolutely brilliant. It's the reason I have no problem with the idea of bringing it to DHS.

~Radiator Springs Racers looks fabulous. I just don't want WDW to get the "economical" version. If Disney recreated the identical same ride or better, I would be thrilled. But, we don't need another "Carsland" -- I prefer Pixarland.

I also wish they would realize the horrible mistake they made with DTD, and recreate an area where adults can go on their own to enjoy entertainment. I am a huge AC fan, but even if that doesn't return but nightlife does, I would consider that a major improvement.

I guess I just want them to continue to excel at entertainment, and make each new trip and unique as all the previous one. I guess I never understand the people that seem to complain continuously, yet continue to go. There is still so much to like, but the time I take a trip and say "boy this isn't really what it used to be" is the time I stop coming.

SkierPete

P.S. Thank you for the compliments - though I feel that I am not one of the "old-timers" here, as I have only been on since 2006. I think when you are on for a while it gets harder to post, watching the same old topics come up year after year. (Though I enjoy the semi-annual "Oh my god, they're going to stop giving discounts!" threads.)

~It's a delicate balance, I don't want to be one of those people who continuously complain, but I don't want to be a pixie duster either. For instance, I don't get mousekeeping. I take serious exception to the standard of cleanliness at Disney resorts, it doesn't appear to correlate with industry standards (imo), -- but I just deal with it. Overall, I still love Disney, I'm excited about my upcoming vacation & I'm looking forward to new & exciting things in the future.

~Also, this thread is awesome, it's really fabulous to see all of the "old timers" together again!!!

 

[pilferk]

Early Eisner had vision and wasn't afraid to spend money. He saw opportunity in expansion, across the company, and..while he certainly was a sharp pencil guy, he had guys around him who could dull the point enough to bring him around to their way of thinking (and making him THINK it was his way of thinking).

Eisner's main problem were these: The guy was terrible at delegation. He was paranoid. He had an ego the size of WDW. And he would sabotage his own people in order to maintain his own standing (both political and actual) in "the boys club").

All that effected his ability, and stunted the vision he DID have. As he cleared out the people around him who dulled that pencil and sort of lit up the "ah ha" moments (for example: Katzenberg), because he viewed them as a threat (either in actual standing or political standing in the "boys club"), his success faltered. So he surrounded himself with "yes" men, and sharp pencil guys (because they were never a threat to supplant him in a company like the Disney that was, then). The problem is: He created a hostile executive culture that pretty much fed on itself and didn't produce much of worth. And that hostile executive culture ended up giving way to a company that was very different...and a company where those "sharp pencil" guys WERE the ones who became the threats to advance...at least to the points below Eisner. And as they advanced (because they weren't an Eisner threat), they continually changed the company until, really, they WERE the company.

Only the Pixar infusion really changed that. That's ONE thing you can thank Iger for...because it's the one thing Eisner could not have done. Because he viewed Lassiter, and, more specifically JOBS, as a huge threat to his power/powerbase. Iger is a bit less insecure, and did the deal that needed to get done.

We'll see how it all works out in the end. I'm encouraged by what I see of Lassiter's work. The question is: Given his money...does he fight through to effect change, become complacent with his little fiefdom and stick with making/keeping DLR a gem, or get sick of the garbage,throw his hands up, and walk away.

I've not seen Lassiter run from a fight, yet (both at Pixar or at Disney). And he seems to love DLR an awful lot. Does that love translate to the rest of disney (outside animation/Pixar's products)/WDW? I have my doubts.