real estate promblems!!

[horseshowmom]

As an example, when our neighbors sold their home the contract listed the appliances that were included (i.e., fridge, stove/oven, dishwasher). What wasn't listed was a specific description of the appliances.

The morning of closing, but before the final walk through, the sellers moved out the original fridge. A really nice high end one. They moved in what we would call a garage fridge - a plain, older model that sits in the garage and stores extra soda, beer, any surplus from the kitchen fridge.

Once we got to know the buyers they brought it up, and some other things about the house they didn't know about. While they were upset, and it was pretty sneaky of the sellers, they didn't have any recourse. Technically a fridge was in the house.

Anymore you do have to be quite specific. You never know when someone will be sneaky. Or, when there just might be a simple misunderstanding between parties. If everything is fully spelled out you can avoid trouble, or most trouble, down the road.

Pretty sad, huh? They knew that when they said applianced inscluded in the listing, people looking at the house would think it meant the appliances that were in the house, not what junk they swapped out. I guess you need to list serial numbers to make sure you get what's in the house.

You can't assume that. Lots of people don't want other peoples stuff. They did not ask for it in the contract, even though it was offered, so why is it unethical to sell it?

If there is an issue here it is that the buyers agent does not know what they are doing and/or made a major error. I would claim their bond/insurance if I thought it was material.

I have had situations where we contracted for the house to be "empty and broom swept" and had to have people clean their left behind junk out before we could close. If I wanted your stuff I would have contracted for it.

They knew how they listed it, and the agent knew that they were expecting to get everything in the house. Now, did the sellers know specifically? Since they likely weren't there, I can't say they did, but their agent knew I'll bet.

If it is indeed a completely honest mistake, once this is brought to their attention they should be more than happy to leave everything instead of selling it since they got top price for their house.

 

[Belle0101]

Pretty sad, huh? They knew that when they said applianced inscluded in the listing, people looking at the house would think it meant the appliances that were in the house, not what junk they swapped out. I guess you need to list serial numbers to make sure you get what's in the house.

I've wondered since then if as a buyer you would be allowed to take pictures or videos of the appliances and then reference the photos or videos in the contract?

 

[horseshowmom]

I've wondered since then if as a buyer you would be allowed to take pictures or videos of the appliances and then reference the photos or videos in the contract?

Sounds like it might be a good idea, but you could also list the appliances by brand and serial number. That way you would know you were getting those EXACT appliances. That should cover it.

 

[GOOFY26]

Sounds like your realtor screwed up

 

[sk!mom]

I wish the OP would report back. While I feel badly for them that they aren't getting everything they expected, I don't think their is so far any indication that the seller is cheating them. If furniture wasn't in the contract then they likely think that it wasn't wanted. Lots of things that are included in listings to attract potential buyers don't make it into the contract- selling price being an example.

We bought our house from very motivated sellers. They had already been transferred and wanted to get out of this house so that they could reunite their family and eliminate the expense of separate households in distant cities. The listing offered carpet allowances, seller paying closing costs, fencing allowance. Basically they were willing to negotiate anything that a buyer might dislike. We didn't take them up on any allowances preferring to offer a much reduced selling price. We couldn't then claim "but your listing promised new carpet and a fence!"

What's in the contract? That's all that matters.

 

[SaraJayne]

They knew how they listed it, and the agent knew that they were expecting to get everything in the house. Now, did the sellers know specifically? Since they likely weren't there, I can't say they did, but their agent knew I'll bet.

If it is indeed a completely honest mistake, once this is brought to their attention they should be more than happy to leave everything instead of selling it since they got top price for their house.

If the furnishings were not listed in the contract, it means the buyer did not want them, so the sellers were free to sell them.

 

[LilyWDW]

They knew how they listed it, and the agent knew that they were expecting to get everything in the house. Now, did the sellers know specifically? Since they likely weren't there, I can't say they did, but their agent knew I'll bet.

If it is indeed a completely honest mistake, once this is brought to their attention they should be more than happy to leave everything instead of selling it since they got top price for their house.

When the buyer didn't make sure the information was in the contract, the sellers and their agent have no obligation to remind them or ask about it. Since the buyer messed up and didn't read the contract in full and verify what they wanted, then the sellers are free to do what they want with their belongings. I mean, the buyer didn't think it was important enough to make sure the furniture was in the contract before signing or they would have done so. So why should the sellers now go out of their way for a mistake on the part of the buyer?

 

[sweetdana]

If this is a deal breaker.. and you have not closed... break the deal.. end of story.. If it is worth the price without furnishings.. go for it. Your realtor knew what the scoop was, and most realtors only care about getting the deal closed and know if things change later, buyers are usually sold on the home in question.. and will close no matter what. It is sad but buying a home is emotional (as well as financial).

If you have not closed, you can have your loan officer assist you with a denial.. It is pretty easy to get denied, your realtor will not tell you that either, and imply an EMD is done if you pull the deal.. but the truth is denials happen every day .. even the day before closing. Tell your processor, you are losing your job in a week or 2, or your short funds to clos, as you spent them.
in 99.999% of the time a denial on a loan program is reason to get your EMD back ... and you can start over. ( you will not likly get back any funds with the lender for an appraisal, but they will likely put a "credit" in your file if you buy a different home.. if you randomly don't lose your job. )

Most people do over buy on the homes they buy, some grow into them, some went a squeek to far, and can never catch up, and end up living pay check to pay check and hoping the furnace doesn't break in Dec. If you are questioning affording furnishings, I would consider thinking how secure any household income is, and if somthing happened what the back up incomes would be prior to over buying.. IE .. if your DH makes 50K, and lost his job would he be able to make 50K right away finding another.. or could he make 30K right away and you could pick up a job for 20K.
.. I don't know that you are over buying.. only a general statement.. I am an underwritter on loans and see it daily. I am 10000% generalizing.. not pointing a finger at you. I don't know you or your financial situation.

 

[sweetdana]

When the buyer didn't make sure the information was in the contract, the sellers and their agent have no obligation to remind them or ask about it. Since the buyer messed up and didn't read the contract in full and verify what they wanted, then the sellers are free to do what they want with their belongings. I mean, the buyer didn't think it was important enough to make sure the furniture was in the contract before signing or they would have done so. So why should the sellers now go out of their way for a mistake on the part of the buyer?

or the buyer trusted (ERRONOUSLY) the sales person whom they thought was working for them.. and found out commission was more important to them then client's best interest..
Not argue OP didnt make a bad chocie not reading docs.. AND realtor knew what they were doing.

 

[sweetdana]

The realtor should have an error and omissions insurance policy.

What would this do??? I am gonna call him tomorrow!
would it cover the cost of the furniture?

error and omissions would not be this issue you are having. .. as this is not the sellers fault. (this is actually used for the lender incase they miss a middle inital or something like that..) the fact is .. . 1000000%, this is your realtors fault.. the seller willingly signed a contract without it and should not be required to add something not in contract. If you are willing to pay 100K for home without furnishings.. why would the seller just add in say 10K worth of furniture.. . you have every right to pull your deal, you have no rights to state the seller should have known.. (the realtor yes, the seller nope.) Your realtors is a jerk.. but E and O, is not set up for what you are thinking it is.

 

[nugov2]

As an example, when our neighbors sold their home the contract listed the appliances that were included (i.e., fridge, stove/oven, dishwasher). What wasn't listed was a specific description of the appliances.

The morning of closing, but before the final walk through, the sellers moved out the original fridge. A really nice high end one. They moved in what we would call a garage fridge - a plain, older model that sits in the garage and stores extra soda, beer, any surplus from the kitchen fridge.

Once we got to know the buyers they brought it up, and some other things about the house they didn't know about. While they were upset, and it was pretty sneaky of the sellers, they didn't have any recourse. Technically a fridge was in the house.

Anymore you do have to be quite specific. You never know when someone will be sneaky. Or, when there just might be a simple misunderstanding between parties. If everything is fully spelled out you can avoid trouble, or most trouble, down the road.

This is actually illegal. You cannot change out anything that would come with the house or in the contract to come with the house to something cheaper. If the listing said includes appliances you cannot go buy generic low end appliances and take your sub zero fridge that was shown to the buyer. When they negotiate for appliances it is the ones in the house not ones you go buy unless that is specifically said in the contract you will be providing different ones. No bait and switching is allowed. Just like you cannot take out light fixtures after the contract is signed right before you move and put in cheap ones. Those buyers could have went after those sellers. If they had consulted their real estate attorney they would have told them that. They just didn't know enough to do so and that is what those sellers hoped for.

 

[Iforgetmypassword]

error and omissions would not be this issue you are having. .. as this is not the sellers fault. (this is actually used for the lender incase they miss a middle inital or something like that..) the fact is .. . 1000000%, this is your realtors fault.. the seller willingly signed a contract without it and should not be required to add something not in contract. If you are willing to pay 100K for home without furnishings.. why would the seller just add in say 10K worth of furniture.. . you have every right to pull your deal, you have no rights to state the seller should have known.. (the realtor yes, the seller nope.) Your realtors is a jerk.. but E and O, is not set up for what you are thinking it is.

Agreed. Errors and admission protects the real estate agent. Not the seller, not the buyer.

I don't think bearloch has a case. She can sue the agent, but I don't think she will win. If she sues and wins, and if the agent has E and O insurance, that's where the money will come from-not the agent's pocket.

But she won't win.

 

[horseshowmom]

If the furnishings were not listed in the contract, it means the buyer did not want them, so the sellers were free to sell them.

Apparently not, based on the OP's post.

When the buyer didn't make sure the information was in the contract, the sellers and their agent have no obligation to remind them or ask about it. Since the buyer messed up and didn't read the contract in full and verify what they wanted, then the sellers are free to do what they want with their belongings. I mean, the buyer didn't think it was important enough to make sure the furniture was in the contract before signing or they would have done so. So why should the sellers now go out of their way for a mistake on the part of the buyer?

Did you read my other posts? I stated that it was perfectly legal for the sellers to do what they're doing. I also said that this very well may be an expensive lesson for the buyer. However, the sellers' agent knew that the buyers expected the furniture to be there (can't speak for the sellers because they were most likely not there during the viewings).

As I said earlier, if the seller really didn't know the OP expected everything with their offer on the house and there was a misunderstanding, they shouldn't mind letting them have it considering they got top dollar for the house. Do they HAVE to do it, most certainly not. The contract is the only thing binding. It still doesn't make it right though.

 

[SaraJayne]

Apparently not, based on the OP's post.

If the offer is written to specifically exclude the furnishings, it is presumed by the seller the buyer does not want the furnishings. It does not matter what the listing says. As far as the seller knows, the buyer is only interested in the house, not the furnishings in it, since they were not included in the contract signed by the OP.

It is an expensive lesson learned by the OP.

 

[horseshowmom]

If the offer is written to specifically exclude the furnishings, it is presumed by the seller the buyer does not want the furnishings. It does not matter what the listing says. As far as the seller knows, the buyer is only interested in the house, not the furnishings in it, since they were not included in the contract signed by the OP.

It is an expensive lesson learned by the OP.

I think I've said that at least twice. But as I've also said, the seller's agent knew they were including the furnishings in their offer. While it is perfectly legal to do what they're doing, it doesn't make it right. If the seller really didn't know, I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to adjust their plans once it's brought to their attention, because they very well may not have known. The agent did though.

 

[bearloch]

Hi, Talked to realtor again and we are out of luck!! the sellers and a family and 1 member has it in his head that they can make $$ off a estate sale so they are going ahead with the sale are realtor addmitted that he messed up the contract paperwork but has not offered to do anything about it it we back out we lose almost 8 grand now so thats not a option!! I did tell my agent I wanted back into the house to video the condition and appliances etc that were in the contract so that I have this to compare to on final walk threw and that if any damages were done during estate sale sellers had to pay to fix at closing! thats where we are at!!!


thanks for all input it has been a expensive lesson learned!!!!! BUT one that will not be forgotten!!

We now close end of Jan instead of mid month I will update then unless something happens !!

On the plus side there is a old non working freezer we wanted out that they now have to remove!!!

 

[sweetdana]

Hi, Talked to realtor again and we are out of luck!! the sellers and a family and 1 member has it in his head that they can make $$ off a estate sale so they are going ahead with the sale are realtor addmitted that he messed up the contract paperwork but has not offered to do anything about it it we back out we lose almost 8 grand now so thats not a option!! I did tell my agent I wanted back into the house to video the condition and appliances etc that were in the contract so that I have this to compare to on final walk threw and that if any damages were done during estate sale sellers had to pay to fix at closing! thats where we are at!!!


thanks for all input it has been a expensive lesson learned!!!!! BUT one that will not be forgotten!!

We now close end of Jan instead of mid month I will update then unless something happens !!

On the plus side there is a old non working freezer we wanted out that they now have to remove!!!

if your realtor is telling you, you will lose your EMD, they are full of crap. just have your loan officer deny you.. you will get your deposit back. in 99.9% of states.

 

[nugov2]

if your realtor is telling you, you will lose your EMD, they are full of crap. just have your loan officer deny you.. you will get your deposit back. in 99.9% of states.

Ditto this. You can for sure get out if that is what you really want. You just have to decide if that is really what you want.

 

[horseshowmom]

Hi, Talked to realtor again and we are out of luck!! the sellers and a family and 1 member has it in his head that they can make $$ off a estate sale so they are going ahead with the sale are realtor addmitted that he messed up the contract paperwork but has not offered to do anything about it it we back out we lose almost 8 grand now so thats not a option!! I did tell my agent I wanted back into the house to video the condition and appliances etc that were in the contract so that I have this to compare to on final walk threw and that if any damages were done during estate sale sellers had to pay to fix at closing! thats where we are at!!!


thanks for all input it has been a expensive lesson learned!!!!! BUT one that will not be forgotten!!

We now close end of Jan instead of mid month I will update then unless something happens !!

On the plus side there is a old non working freezer we wanted out that they now have to remove!!!

Did your realtor make any money off of this sale? If he did, I would request that he refund that money to you based on his self admitted error. If he's not going to offer, then you need to address it with him yourself. I don't know whether there's anything you could do about it legally though.

 

[angwill]

Hi, Talked to realtor again and we are out of luck!! the sellers and a family and 1 member has it in his head that they can make $$ off a estate sale so they are going ahead with the sale are realtor addmitted that he messed up the contract paperwork but has not offered to do anything about it it we back out we lose almost 8 grand now so thats not a option!! I did tell my agent I wanted back into the house to video the condition and appliances etc that were in the contract so that I have this to compare to on final walk threw and that if any damages were done during estate sale sellers had to pay to fix at closing! thats where we are at!!!


thanks for all input it has been a expensive lesson learned!!!!! BUT one that will not be forgotten!!

We now close end of Jan instead of mid month I will update then unless something happens !!


On the plus side there is a old non working freezer we wanted out that they now have to remove!!!

Personally, I would do what the others said about having the loan officer deny your loan. I would then get a new real estate person and find something else you like better. Let them sell their home honestly with no furniture to someone who wants it that way.

If you are going through with it make sure to do a walk through before closing and if that freezer is not out tell them your not signing till it is and you have made sure it's not on the property anywhere.