Does Disney treat those who buy resale differently?

[mort1331]

I'm not blaming anyone, I am just stating the facts. Buyers have a choice, resale or direct. If they buy resale they aren't buying direct and Disney has lost a sale. You can change "cut out" to "lost" if you want but the result is the same.

Why do you think that they placed the resale restrictions, to make resale sales less attractive and to boost direct sales. As a Guide, if you aren't making your required sales, you first lose money and if you do not improve, you are fired for under preforming.

Bill

These two things are seperate, and have nothing to do with direct sales.
The first is like comparing new home sales to mls listing sales. If someone buys an older home instead of the new home then the builder is cut out. But in reality the builder might not have even been in the picture if the buyers couldnt afford the new homes, but could only afford a fixer upper.
After buying the fixer upper, the home owner still has the same costs as someone who buys from a builder. Mortgage, insurance, heat, hydro ect/. Just like the MF at dvc. I for one would not have bought into dvc if not for finding resale. And it was shown to me by a rep who understood our situation. Not wanting the large upfront, but could handle the yearly fee since i did not want to finance the purchase.

The second point is two fold, I belive the restrictions are there to give insentive to by direct. As far as making sales targets, and being let go for not making them, thats in all sales jobs, working against much more comp then resale dvc. Dont forget about all the other thousand of timeshares close to Disney and that comp. All timeshare sales no matter who they are, are looking for the fish that dont know about the other waters to swim in. It is their job to net you with the bait, and reel you in.
I have close friends that have had their membership for 7 years and untill I told them I bought resale, they had no idea. And they have added on 4 times.Are they upset about not knowing about resale, no because they have been looked after. Will they continue to by direct, their not sure now, but thats not to say no, but they have the choice now and its their reps responsiblity to keep them happy to continue to buy direct.

 

[bumbershoot]

I'm not blaming anyone, I am just stating the facts. Buyers have a choice, resale or direct. If they buy resale they aren't buying direct and Disney has lost a sale. You can change "cut out" to "lost" if you want but the result is the same.

There might be a problem for the salesperson, but hardly to Disney. They get the resale-buyer's money in admission, food, souvenirs... They get the dues. And more dues. And even more dues.

The salesperson can either look at a resale buyer as someone who took food off their table, can berate them, spend time lying to them, and cut those resale buyers out of his life entirely....OR s/he can see those people as FUTURE buyers from him/her. OR s/he can spend as little time as is possible with the resale buyers, and spend his/her time with people that s/he might sell to right then. No one is wasting the salesperson's time but the salesperson him/herself, when they take the time to say nonsense to someone who didn't buy from him/her...yet.

While we never did buy resale, we considered it and told our guide. He didn't get on our case at all, and simply told us that he looked forward to our purchase in the future. Year and a half later, he was getting our purchase! If he had done a hardsell, we would not have bought from him.

 

[Dean]

There might be a problem for the salesperson, but hardly to Disney. They get the resale-buyer's money in admission, food, souvenirs... They get the dues. And more dues. And even more dues.

The salesperson can either look at a resale buyer as someone who took food off their table, can berate them, spend time lying to them, and cut those resale buyers out of his life entirely....OR s/he can see those people as FUTURE buyers from him/her. OR s/he can spend as little time as is possible with the resale buyers, and spend his/her time with people that s/he might sell to right then. No one is wasting the salesperson's time but the salesperson him/herself, when they take the time to say nonsense to someone who didn't buy from him/her...yet.

While we never did buy resale, we considered it and told our guide. He didn't get on our case at all, and simply told us that he looked forward to our purchase in the future. Year and a half later, he was getting our purchase! If he had done a hardsell, we would not have bought from him.

Not really. With limited exceptions, the rooms will get used and someone will pay dues, admissions, dining, etc. While there will be a small subset that wouldn't buy if it weren't for the cheaper resale, it's essentially an irrelevant group. A significant group would buy retail if resale weren't a viable option.

 

[bighoo93]

Not really. With limited exceptions, the rooms will get used and someone will pay dues, admissions, dining, etc. While there will be a small subset that wouldn't buy if it weren't for the cheaper resale, it's essentially an irrelevant group. A significant group would buy retail if resale weren't a viable option.

The group of people who would only buy DVC via resale is probably not small, and definitely not irrelevant.

 

[disneynutz]

The group of people who would only buy DVC via resale is probably not small, and definitely not irrelevant.

Disney sells millions of points at a new resort, at AKV so far they have sold 7.5 million, no real comparison to resale. If resale were considered a more relevant group, there would be 50 resale brokers fighting for the DVC resale business instead of 4.

Bill

 

[bighoo93]

Disney sells millions of points at a new resort, at AKV so far they have sold 7.5 million, no real comparison to resale. If resale were considered a more relevant group, there would be 50 resale brokers fighting for the DVC resale business instead of 4.

This is an entirely different issue.

But for the record, I agree wholeheartedly that Disney has no difficulty selling their points at double the cost of the resale market, indicating that they have no need to add punitive restrictions.

 

[davedmaine]

That's not reality at all. Disney was not "cut out" of a sale any more than they were cut out of the sale when I bought a gallon of milk at the grocery store this morning. The product I bought wasn't Disney's to sell, just like someone else's DVC points. Disney sells a comparable product to resale DVC points, but they choose to charge double the price. It is a good decision, too, because they have little difficulty selling almost all of their points at that price. But they were not "cut out" of any sale.

Nor is it reasonable to say that people who buy resale are doing any harm to Disney/DVC/DVD. Every day there are billions of people who do not buy from DVD/Disney. And from the countless other businesses on the planet. They aren't "negatively affecting" those companies that they don't do business with, even if they purchase products from competitors, unless you use a bizarre frame of reference where the world revolves around that business and every dollar and sale rightly belongs to it. Consumers go where the economic value is. DVD chooses to charge double the price for essentially the same product. Anyone who gets fired on account of people buying resale (and I have no reason to believe this has happened) should look to DVD management and their pricing decisions, not to the people who evaluated the alternatives in the marketplace and chose the one that made the most economic sense. I would not have bought DVC points directly from Disney because it did not make economic sense (even if there were no resale). I simply would not have bought into DVC at all. So buying resale did nothing to harm Disney/DVD, and that is the case for many who choose to purchase in that market.

Of course salespeople in every industry and company want to make a sale. But it is really not accurate to place the blame on the consumer for making an informed choice.

It is reality when you take it to a personal level.

 

[Dean]

The group of people who would only buy DVC via resale is probably not small, and definitely not irrelevant.

from DVD's standpoint they are irrelevant other than if DVd can somehow get them to buy and i think you over estimate the size of the group that would not buy if resale were not an option.

This is an entirely different issue.

But for the record, I agree wholeheartedly that Disney has no difficulty selling their points at double the cost of the resale market, indicating that they have no need to add punitive restrictions.

disney will have to decide what they 'have' to do. Regardless of how well they do, a lost sale is a lost sale and lost profit. however I think disney has had issues with the economy as well as at certain resort historically (VB/HH).

 

[JaimeA]

from DVD's standpoint they are irrelevant other than if DVd can somehow get them to buy and i think you over estimate the size of the group that would not buy if resale were not an option.

disney will have to decide what they 'have' to do. Regardless of how well they do, a lost sale is a lost sale and lost profit. however I think disney has had issues with the economy as well as at certain resort historically (VB/HH).

I am one in that irrelevant group. We loved DVC but did not feel it was worth 35k for the size contract we wanted. So I bought it resale for half. Disney did not lose my sale because I would never buy direct at those prices.

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[Caren90]

I am one in that irrelevant group. We loved DVC but did not feel it was worth 35k for the size contract we wanted. So I bought it resale for half. Disney did not lose my sale because I would never buy direct at those prices.

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And in some respects, Disney has gained you as a repeat customer ( park tickets, dining, merchandise...).

I bought resale as well and knew that Disney would still be receiving some of my future dollars (on the items stated above) on a long term basis.

Disney would prefer the whole dollar (direct sale), but they will never refuse a smaller cut of the $$.

Stephen

 

[bighoo93]

from DVD's standpoint they are irrelevant other than if DVd can somehow get them to buy and i think you over estimate the size of the group that would not buy if resale were not an option.

It would be pretty unusual for people to be indifferent to paying twice the price for the same thing. If almost everyone who purchased resale DVC would have made the same purchases direct, that would be unexpected and there should be some reason very particular to that situation that makes it stand out from just about anything else.

 

[bighoo93]

And in some respects, Disney has gained you as a repeat customer ( park tickets, dining, merchandise...).

Exactly. Lodging is a relatively small portion of the total Disney vacation bill in my case, and probably for most people.

 

[heynowirv]

And in some respects, Disney has gained you as a repeat customer ( park tickets, dining, merchandise...).

I bought resale as well and knew that Disney would still be receiving some of my future dollars (on the items stated above) on a long term basis.

Disney would prefer the whole dollar (direct sale), but they will never refuse a smaller cut of the $$.

Stephen

 

[Brian Noble]

We truly do not know why DVC placed resale restrictions; unless I have missed something everything posted here has been conjecture as to their motives.

Do we "know" it, as in, we sat in on the meeting at which it was discussed? No.

But, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that DVD has applied these restrictions to give Guides some way of countering the tour guest who happens to know that resale exists, and has a vague sense of the market. The fact that it solved the monetization problem was just a bonus for DVCMC. The *other* way to solve the monetization problem (and a much easier one) would have been simply to raise the required points for DC, ABD, or DCL bookings.

And in some respects, Disney has gained you as a repeat customer ( park tickets, dining, merchandise...).

It is important to understand how Disney, as a company, works. Each unit, and each division within each unit, has to answer to its own profit/loss goals and performance. In many respects, the company is operated as if it were several different companies. Granted, they have complimentary goals, but still, DVD gets credit only for DVC sales, not in-park spending by DVC Members, etc.

On the broader point: clearly, not everyone who bought resale would have instead bought from the developer if resale did not exist. But, some fraction would. More importantly, some fraction of tour guests are aware of the resale market generally, and may initially balk at the differential. The various restrictions generate just enough FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) that some buyers are pushed over the edge. Not the most informed of them, but some.

A truly informed buyer would never purchase from DVD directly in the current market. The resale restrictions are meaningless economically---the exchange options are almost always cash-flow negative vs. renting out points and using the cash for the hotel, tour, or cruise you desire. The only other advantage is time to close the purchase, but that's an advantage measured in months---not long enough to justify the premium for an RTU with a lifetime still measured in decades.

Finally, there is one system that has effectively completely eliminated resales. Diamond sells "points", but only as part of a trust, backed by an underlying deed. If you sell the interest to someone else, it is removed from the trust, and you only have the rights of the underlying deed---either a single resort, or a small pre-existing resort group, but not the entire Diamond portfolio. Fiendishly clever.

 

[ELMC]

It would be pretty unusual for people to be indifferent to paying twice the price for the same thing. If almost everyone who purchased resale DVC would have made the same purchases direct, that would be unexpected and there should be some reason very particular to that situation that makes it stand out from just about anything else.

You keep on referring to people who paid "twice the price" but what you don't realize is that only describes people buying under today's market conditions. Historically, the gap between direct and resale prices has never been as big as it is today. There are many, many people who have bought direct for prices very close to what today's resale prices are. Don't believe me? Check out this link of historical direct prices:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2532406]DVC Post #5


You are also making a misstatement when you refer to resale and direct purchases as the "same thing". They're not. Regardless of what we think about point exchanges for DCL, the Disney Collection and the like, the fact of the matter is that direct purchasers can do them and we as resale buyers cannot. I think you are making broad generalizations based on a very small sample size. Yes, there are some people for whom the choice is "resale or nothing". You seem to be one of those people and quite frankly, so am I. That being said, there is a larger group of people who are asking the question "direct or resale?". If those people choose to buy resale, that is indeed a direct purchase that a salesperson loses.

 

[Dean]

I am one in that irrelevant group. We loved DVC but did not feel it was worth 35k for the size contract we wanted. So I bought it resale for half. Disney did not lose my sale because I would never buy direct at those prices.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

and that will be true for some but there are a significant portion of members that buy resale who would buy retail under the right circumstances and for many of them, just not having a viable resale option will be enough to send them Disney's way. From a sales standpoint it's simply a numbers game.

It would be pretty unusual for people to be indifferent to paying twice the price for the same thing. If almost everyone who purchased resale DVC would have made the same purchases direct, that would be unexpected and there should be some reason very particular to that situation that makes it stand out from just about anything else.

Not indifferent, receptive. IMO, there are very few situations where it's advisable to buy retail given the current circumstances but those circumstances can (and likely will) change over time.

 

[rmcildw2m]

in all my times of calling in to reservations ,I have never been treated rude. Even though i have bought all 3 contracts thru resale .

 

[heynowirv]

in all my times of calling in to reservations ,I have never been treated rude. Even though i have bought all 3 contracts thru resale .

And wasn't that the question asked by the OP? Boy people can get lost in tangents ,can't they?

 

[beadel]

We purchased a DVC property resale a couple months ago. We went on a 2 week DCL cruise from December 9 through the 23. As DVC members we were treated very well and the same as other DVC members while on the cruise. We were included in all of the activities and perks offered to DVC members. I am sure they knew we purchased resale but were treated very well by the DVC sales staff.
Today, we toured the DVC center at Saratoga Springs. We were treated by welcome guests and given a great tour. While they looked us up and probably knew we purchased resale, there was no mention of resale.
I am happy we did not have your experience and sorry you were treated that way.
Kitty and Jim

 

[LindsayO22]

What are the limitations of buying a resale? Are there certain perks or benefits unavailable to resale purchase?