Resale restrictions - when announced in the past?

[bighoo93]

I'm a little unclear as to exactly what you want to know and are trying to get a handle on regarding DVC. Would you mind spelling it out for me?

Honestly, just about anything would help. The Walt Disney Company financial reports are extremely light on any details regarding DVC/DVD (i.e., pretty much useless). But ideally I'd like to have that kind of information about their financial and operating details.

Usually I refer to specifics in posts where I ask about it, because people make claims or assertions that would require some particular information to support. I assume that they have seen it, but the way the internet and social media works these days, often you just have to see or hear something repeated enough that it becomes a "fact", even though it was never established with any evidence in the first place.

But for starters, what is the magnitude of their sales on an annual basis? What is their cost structure? How many points remain unsold on Disney's books at each resort? What is the historical rate of sales for points at various resorts?

When someone says that DVC needs to add restrictions to resale points because they are losing money via resale, I want to understand the magnitude of the alleged problem. Same for when someone claims that DVC needs to ban point renting because it is taking money away from Disney. These could be true, but without data to support, it is difficult to demonstrate it and impossible to understand the magnitude of the issue, which is really what would drive whether Disney would even consider taking any kind of action.

 

[DougEMG]

Honestly, just about anything would help. The Walt Disney Company financial reports are extremely light on any details regarding DVC/DVD (i.e., pretty much useless). But ideally I'd like to have that kind of information about their financial and operating details.

Usually I refer to specifics in posts where I ask about it, because people make claims or assertions that would require some particular information to support. I assume that they have seen it, but the way the internet and social media works these days, often you just have to see or hear something repeated enough that it becomes a "fact", even though it was never established with any evidence in the first place.

But for starters, what is the magnitude of their sales on an annual basis? What is their cost structure? How many points remain unsold on Disney's books at each resort? What is the historical rate of sales for points at various resorts?

When someone says that DVC needs to add restrictions to resale points because they are losing money via resale, I want to understand the magnitude of the alleged problem. Same for when someone claims that DVC needs to ban point renting because it is taking money away from Disney. These could be true, but without data to support, it is difficult to demonstrate it and impossible to understand the magnitude of the issue, which is really what would drive whether Disney would even consider taking any kind of action.

Over at DVCNews you can see data on the number of points sold at each resort by month. The last two months had big drops in sales.

 

[Missyrose]

When someone says that DVC needs to add restrictions to resale points because they are losing money via resale, I want to understand the magnitude of the alleged problem. Same for when someone claims that DVC needs to ban point renting because it is taking money away from Disney. These could be true, but without data to support, it is difficult to demonstrate it and impossible to understand the magnitude of the issue, which is really what would drive whether Disney would even consider taking any kind of action.

Some of it is just common sense. If resale owners couldn't rent their points out, there could potentially be unused points. Unused points = unused villas and unused villas get turned over to Disney at 60 days out to sell for cash reservations.

On another thread, someone posted that the cash rate for a two-bedroom lake view villa at BLT is $773 rack rate. So yes, Disney loses out on money from rentals (and it loses even more when you take into account that the people renting points would probably otherwise be giving their lodging costs directly to Disney).

 

[DebbieB]

Some of it is just common sense. If resale owners couldn't rent their points out, there could potentially be unused points. Unused points = unused villas and unused villas get turned over to Disney at 60 days out to sell for cash reservations.

On another thread, someone posted that the cash rate for a two-bedroom lake view villa at BLT is $773 rack rate. So yes, Disney loses out on money from rentals (and it loses even more when you take into account that the people renting points would probably otherwise be giving their lodging costs directly to Disney).

There have been issues with CRO filling cash rooms. Just a couple of weeks ago there was a post on the resorts board saying people were once again being offered free upgrades from value resorts to OKW or SSR. They have a hard time filling villas because they are expensive. If you check on disney's website, typically DVC villas are available up to the last minute. I think that was part of the reason they started restricting resales, less trades mean less cash rooms they have to fill to pay for trades.

 

[KingRichard]

There have been issues with CRO filling cash rooms. Just a couple of weeks ago there was a post on the resorts board saying people were once again being offered free upgrades from value resorts to OKW or SSR. They have a hard time filling villas because they are expensive. If you check on disney's website, typically DVC villas are available up to the last minute. I think that was part of the reason they started restricting resales, less trades mean less cash rooms they have to fill to pay for trades.

So as a owner is it costing us money for Disney to give away free upgrades?

Someone pays $100 per night and gets put in a room that cost $300 night?

We pay house keeping, maint, security and trans. plus what ever else?

When DVC or Disney rents a room, how much is added directly into the budget to keep our dues down?

Thanks all!

 

[disneynutz]

There have been issues with CRO filling cash rooms. Just a couple of weeks ago there was a post on the resorts board saying people were once again being offered free upgrades from value resorts to OKW or SSR. They have a hard time filling villas because they are expensive. If you check on disney's website, typically DVC villas are available up to the last minute. I think that was part of the reason they started restricting resales, less trades mean less cash rooms they have to fill to pay for trades.

If you think about it it doesn't make sense for Disney to upgrade someone to a DVC room just because it isn't booked. They do it to give the guest a taste of staying at a DVC resort which results in sales.

Bill

 

[DebbieB]

If you think about it it doesn't make sense for Disney to upgrade someone to a DVC room just because it isn't booked. They do it to give the guest a taste of staying at a DVC resort which results in sales.

Bill

I think it makes great sense. It opens up a value room that they can get money for and it does open the possibility of a future sale. But there is still the issue of rooms that they got from trades that they are not getting income for, which is why I think they wanted to reduce trades. Around the same time as the resale restriction, they cut down on the number of cabins available on the cruises.

 

[Dean]

So as a owner is it costing us money for Disney to give away free upgrades?

Someone pays $100 per night and gets put in a room that cost $300 night?

We pay house keeping, maint, security and trans. plus what ever else?

When DVC or Disney rents a room, how much is added directly into the budget to keep our dues down?

Thanks all!

No cost that's not built in. Disney only gives away rooms they have the right to. It just confirms that they can't rent all the rooms they have the potential to do so.

Honestly, just about anything would help. The Walt Disney Company financial reports are extremely light on any details regarding DVC/DVD (i.e., pretty much useless). But ideally I'd like to have that kind of information about their financial and operating details.

Usually I refer to specifics in posts where I ask about it, because people make claims or assertions that would require some particular information to support. I assume that they have seen it, but the way the internet and social media works these days, often you just have to see or hear something repeated enough that it becomes a "fact", even though it was never established with any evidence in the first place.

But for starters, what is the magnitude of their sales on an annual basis? What is their cost structure? How many points remain unsold on Disney's books at each resort? What is the historical rate of sales for points at various resorts?

When someone says that DVC needs to add restrictions to resale points because they are losing money via resale, I want to understand the magnitude of the alleged problem. Same for when someone claims that DVC needs to ban point renting because it is taking money away from Disney. These could be true, but without data to support, it is difficult to demonstrate it and impossible to understand the magnitude of the issue, which is really what would drive whether Disney would even consider taking any kind of action.

I'm still not sure your focus. Are you an owner just hungry for info or are you thinking of buying in or adding on and trying to account for every variable. The reality is that MOST of the type of info you seem to want is not going to be available directly unless you're truly an insider and then it won't matter and you can't talk about it. The reality is that you have to back into the info with accumulated knowledge, experience and calculated assumptions. Some things you simply have to take on faith.

As for me, I have a certain amount of knowledge and experience and I have my opinions based on that knowledge and experience. I also have my principles. I've seen several companies go through these struggles and changes along the lines being discussed here. As for renting, Disney would love to prevent it but they legally can't except in the extreme. For resales, they'd love to prevent them but also can't. And they don't want to be too harsh in these and other areas as to hinder retail sales too much.

The info on the number of memberships sold per year is available directly from DVD. The number of points for sale is available through the grace of a handful of dedicated members who put a lot of effort to track it. There's one thing I learned in timeshares long ago. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Things change and usually for the worse. That's why I emphasize that DVC needs to clearly make sense without any perks before people buy in, break even is not good enough to justify buying. Ultimately you have to get the best info you can, analyze your situation and then make a leap of faith. If DVC makes sense for you otherwise, all you're really buying is faith in Disney.

 

[CarolMN]

I think it makes great sense. It opens up a value room that they can get money for and it does open the possibility of a future sale. But there is still the issue of rooms that they got from trades that they are not getting income for, which is why I think they wanted to reduce trades. Around the same time as the resale restriction, they cut down on the number of cabins available on the cruises.

I totally agree with you. They have more demand for the value resorts than they can fill, so they upgrade someone to a villa they can't fill for rack or even a discount and then get $$ for the value room again. Resort/Hotel room nights are very perishable. It's not like they can get $$ for that empty room after the night passes Better to get something than nothing for it! (Plus it helps members. A lot of those DVC rooms for cash got there to pay for members choice to cruise and some of them are breakage. Revenue from the breakage rooms help reduce our dues).

IMO, a large factor in the resale restrictions was the popularity of cruising. The cruises take a lot of points, there was (is) huge demand for it and they were having trouble booking the DVC villas for cash. The guides got a selling point and some of the pressure to book DVC villas for cash went away.