calling all teachers and parents

[irishsharon]

I posted on the disabilities board but have had to replys so far ,so I thought I would ask here, if thats ok. The short version my ds is in a 5th grade inclusion class and he has a major learning disablity in math. He has been coming home with grades of 85-100 and dh and I think he is being over helped.I meet with the teachers this week and was wondering how to deal with this. Dh and I know what are ds can and cannot do. last year and the year before he got a level one(lowest level) on the state tests.Any advise on how to bring this up to the teachers would be great.

 

[#1hoosierfan]

Is he receiving an adapted curriculum? Extra time, fewer questions, etc??? That would all account for the higher grades. My students that are on an IEP for math get the same work, but they are pulled out a few times a week and the special Ed teacher goes over the work with them again in a small group setting and uses manipulatives with them or whatever they need to be successful.

I would urge you not to pull the plug on the services too soon. It can be very hard to get qualified again. With that said, some students do indeed "graduate out" from services.

 

[irishsharon]

Is he receiving an adapted curriculum? Extra time, fewer questions, etc??? That would all account for the higher grades. My students that are on an IEP for math get the same work, but they are pulled out a few times a week and the special Ed teacher goes over the work with them again in a small group setting and uses manipulatives with them or whatever they need to be successful.

I would urge you not to pull the plug on the services too soon. It can be very hard to get qualified again. With that said, some students do indeed "graduate out" from services.

Dh and I think he is being over helped on his tests.We have fought very hard for ds to get the help he needs but if he is getting A's and B's he will not qualify for services. The teachers are not helping him if they are giving him the answers.He is taking the same tests as his peers but he gets more time and has his test read to him as he reads the numbers reversed.

 

[jenrose66]

I posted on the disabilities board but have had to replys so far ,so I thought I would ask here, if thats ok. The short version my ds is in a 5th grade inclusion class and he has a major learning disablity in math. He has been coming home with grades of 85-100 and dh and I think he is being over helped.I meet with the teachers this week and was wondering how to deal with this. Dh and I know what are ds can and cannot do. last year and the year before he got a level one(lowest level) on the state tests.Any advise on how to bring this up to the teachers would be great.

Maybe he just has really good teachers...and I genuinely mean that. Maybe something just clicked for him and he's understanding the material.

 

[jenrose66]

Dh and I think he is being over helped on his tests.We have fought very hard for ds to get the help he needs but if he is getting A's and B's he will not qualify for services. The teachers are not helping him if they are giving him the answers.He is taking the same tests as his peers but he gets more time and has his test read to him as he reads the numbers reversed.

So you are worried that maybe, due to teacher evaluations, etc...that maybe they are over helping him so he gets higher grades so they get better evaluations? I can actually understand that concern, especially if your son's services are at stake.

 

[irishsharon]

So you are worried that maybe, due to teacher evaluations, etc...that maybe they are over helping him so he gets higher grades so they get better evaluations? I can actually understand that concern, especially if your son's services are at stake.

All I know is that my son has had wonderful teachers who all worked very hard to help him.When we have him do his homework it is very clear what he can and cannot do.If the school district thinks he is doing well he will get no services next year when he goes to middle school.Then when he needs the help it can take months for it to begin. I need his teachers this year to understand that.

 

[DisneyCrazyX5]

Is the teacher reading the test to him or is it an aide? If the person reading is not trained on what they can and can help your son with they may be giving hints to help him out. I teach and read test to kids several times a year. I try very hard to not change my voice as I read the test or answer choices. I never ask "are you sure" after a student answers.
I would be very clear when talking to the teacher that you are worried about jr high and your having no extra services.

 

[angwill]

In our state they test the kids to tell if they need the IEP and help it is not based on grades. Even if the child/teen gets all A's they still get help and only the retesting that is done every three years can disqualify them if they test high enough showing they are now on a level with their peers. If a child is getting help in math and has an IEP he gets the help as stated in his IEP. They can get A's and B's because of their needs being met so they understand the work and the teachers are not allowed to feed them answers. If you are concerned just call the teacher or stop in and ask them if because he is getting high grades does that mean he is doing better this year and keeping up with the others. Then ask if because he is getting such good grades will it disqualify him from having an IEP. I really don't think they can do that legally in any state.

 

[luckygirl539]

Remember the IEP and accomodations can be revised. You could request a meeting and discuss your concerns with the teacher, spec Ed teacher, etc. I don't know what state you are in, but consult your rights, and voice your concerns. This could be anything: too much help, too much accommodations, or he could be progressing. Hope that helps!

 

[LoverDisney]

I am a special education director. It seems that he is getting good grades because the accommodations and modifications are being implemented properly. I would be concerned if he wasn't passing because that would be a red flag that the IEP wasn't being followed. A student cannot be discharged because they are getting good grades. A reevaluation will determine if your child will continue to qualify for services. I would ask the teacher how your child is being tested and any changes to the IEP can be discussed at that time.

 

[irishsharon]

My ds is doing better but you don't go from two years behind to now getting A's and B's in three months. All the IEP meetings I have had for my ds the teachers have had a big part in helping convincing the special ed chairperson he needed certain services. If the teachers are saying he has caught up then I am going to have to prove to the chairperson that this is not the case.My ds will take the state math test again this year but you do not get the results until the summer.If this shows no major improvement I can call another meeting to get services but this could take time. I need to say something but I fear that they will treat my child differently,we can say they won't be hurt feelings cause people to be bitter.I hate conflict but if they are sugar coating how my ds is doing he is the one who loses not them.He is my child forever and theres for 180 days.

 

[irishsharon]

I am a special education director. It seems that he is getting good grades because the accommodations and modifications are being implemented properly. I would be concerned if he wasn't passing because that would be a red flag that the IEP wasn't being followed. A student cannot be discharged because they are getting good grades. A reevaluation will determine if your child will continue to qualify for services. I would ask the teacher how your child is being tested and any changes to the IEP can be discussed at that time.

This has been a long fight to get my child the right help.He was not meeting his IEP goals in math but the district was not doing anything to help.Dh and I had him tested and showed he has a major learning deficit in math.I was told when he was in 2nd grade that resource room would help.Then he was put in an inclusion class in 3rd and I was told this would be the answer.When he still fell further behind they said there was nothing else they could do but send him to a 12-1-1 class for a child who has a learning disability.At the end of 4th grade he was at a 2nd-3rd grade math level and because I was going to bring a lawyer the special ed chairperson finally agreed to one on one resource room.Ds's new teachers give lots of extra bonus points to boost your grade.Just a side note ds does really well insocial studies and science. His last social studies test he got a 93 ,normal for him in this subject but half the class failed and the teachers let them retake the test. How is this a fair assesment? Also giving extra worksheets to boost your lowest grade are some of the things they do.I'm not sure if its because they where 2nd grade teachers for 5 years.I have fought to hard and I mean hard, to let my child lose his services.I have and never will stick my head in the sand, we have ds do some of the same problems that are on his tests and he does not get even half of them right, that is not good.

 

[karliebug]

The purpose of an IEP is to teach a child at his individual level. So he is getting A's or B's at his level, not the level of the class. The work he is doing is probably not the same work expected of others in the class, or if it is the same work, his modification may be that he takes the test one-on-one, receives additional remedial time,etc. My child is gifted, but also LD in writing. So while she was very intelligent and had great ideas, she had trouble putting those ideas on paper. She received help in that area for a couple of years and is now no longer in the program. Depending on the severity of your child's disability he may be receiving just extra help, or a different parallel curriculum. You should talk with his special ed. case manager or teacher about your concerns. The fact that he is receiving good grades with an IEP does not mean he has "caught up" with the class, he is now being graded on work at his personal instructional level rather than comparing him to everyone else in the class.

 

[JamesMom]

My DS7 is in the same boat, but with reading. He has been 'in the system' since age 3 with a speech delay and the past 4 years with interventions he has improved dramactally from non-verbal to reading at an early Kindy level when he was tested last March.
Well after 2 marking periods this year, he still isn't on par with a mid year Kindy reading level... The teacher gives him a modified spelling test of 6 words instead of the usually 15 and marks very generously his almost illegable work. And he got an '87' for the starting 2 terms of the year. Great - he can do his IEP stuff, but he is in SECOND grade - I need to know how he compares with his peers! I have attended ARDs and conferences, but feel I am speaking to a brick wall when it comes to progress. They seem content to coast his way to being a high school graduate with an 8th grade (or less) reading level. UNACCEPTABLE. He was tested in first grade with an average IQ so he is capable, they are just not pushing him enough.
So we are homeschooling next year and will lose services, but with his ASD and ADHD diagonsis, he could probably get them back if our grand experiement fails. I honestly don't think I can do worse than the school right now.
Good luck, I feel your pain.

 

[irishsharon]

DS's works on his IEP goals BUT he takes exactly the SAME tests as the other kids in the class because he will have to take the state test just like the other kids.He gets extra time and has his tests read to him those are the only modifications.I feel the teachers are over helping him during his tests.I meet with the teachers tommorow and want to bring up my concerns but dont want them to feel attacked.I really need help with how to bring this up at the meeting and the right words so the teachers don't become defensive.I am very aware of what my ds can do and when we give him the same problems from his tests the next day he only gets half right, something is wrong.

 

[MrsPete]

Could be a number of things:

- Around his age kids' brains move from concrete functioning to abstract functioning, and this can affect math ability more than any other academic process.

Here's a little test that I remember from a college class: Take a tall skinny glass and a short fat glass. Put a cup of water into the tall glass. Pour it into the short glass. A young child who's still functioning in "concrete operations" will tell you that there's now less water (because the water level is shorter). An older child who has progressed on to greater abstract thought will immediately reason out the idea that the water's volume hasn't changed; rather, it's just changed shape.

You can't "rush" this brain process, and kids don't all "get it" at the same age. So, it could be that he's matured to the point that he is now stronger in math than he used to be.



Or, your suspisions could be right, and he could be receiving too much help. I'd look at how the grades are calculated. Is his homework /seat work graded, or does he simply get 100% if he compeltes it? That could give a false-high grade. The worst possibility would be that he sits there making As all year in 5th grade, then he fails the end-of-course tests and is lost in 6th grade math. If that happens, then the 5th grade teachers have done him no favors.

You're right to be concerned about more than the number on his report card (because, in the end, the 5th grade report card grade means absolutely nothing). The end-of-the-year standardized test will give you a good idea of how he stacks up against his peers, but you'd like to have a truthful inkling of that NOW.

At this point, I'd just ask the teacher to give you an explaination of how she thinks he's doing.

 

[angwill]

You say you got him tested so I take it that was outside the school system? In our system testing outside the system does not mean anything. The school psychologist has to test the child and see where they are with the school testing. If this has not been done I would write a note requesting the school psychologist test him for Math, IQ and other things. They have I believe 60 days to get the testing done. That is what qualifies him for an IEP and what is required to be repeated every three years to show improvement or not. They can not dismiss the IEP if they do not test and show he has improved and is at grade level. It is not based on the teachers or coordinators opinion of how he is doing based on his grades. A child can have an IEP and get A's and B's in the class but that has nothing to do with his needs and meeting them. Just because he is behind the class does not mean he should get bad grades and not pass tests.

I am kind of confused as to where you are coming from with all of this because what you are saying does not follow the laws and what an IEP, grades, and being behind is all about.

Also because one kid passed a test in social studies while every other kid failed it so the teacher retested them all and that was cheating? There is nothing wrong with a teacher seeing that the whole class did not understand the material taught based on the tesing so she goes back over the material to make sure they understand and then test them again to make sure they got it. What would be wrong is to allow the whole class, minus one kid, get F's and just move on to the next topic without them learning the lesson.

As for extra worksheets to help a child boost their grade is not a bad thing because through those worksheets a child is learning things they need to know. It's not like the kid gets and F so the teacher chooses to change it to a B just because she doesn't want a kid to fail her class to make her look bad. She is giving the child another chance to learn more and giving them a grade for it based on what their work on that particular worksheet, what is wrong with that?

If you want your child to get bad grades just because he has a learning difference that is not good and I don't think the teachers would be right to purposely give your child lower grades because you want it that way. That is the way this is coming across anyway but forgive me if I am reading something in it that you do not mean. I would be more concerned if my child were getting a bad grade that they were not teaching him what he needs to know in the class because he is not grasping it as represented by the bad grade.

 

[MSSANDRA]

I understand your frustration and fear in your situation. I agree with several others that the purpose of an IEP is to give your child a change to succeed. Modifications should help him to do just that. I do think you have to balance out your fear of loosing services (which legally should be based on testing) and your child's need to feel successful if he is doing his best. One thing I have not seen here is the fact that kids preform differently for different people and in different settings. Maybe this teacher has a way of motivating your child to be more successful than you at home do. Sometimes when we expect less of children, they give us less.

 

[pigget74]

I have not read all responses so forgive me if this has already been asked and said. Does he have an IEP? If he does, what is stated under accommodations and modifications. Accommodations should not change his grade--for example if the test is read to him--he either knows it or doesn't. Modifications is where the actual test or work has been modified. These are very different.

 

[irishsharon]

You say you got him tested so I take it that was outside the school system? In our system testing outside the system does not mean anything. The school psychologist has to test the child and see where they are with the school testing. If this has not been done I would write a note requesting the school psychologist test him for Math, IQ and other things. They have I believe 60 days to get the testing done. That is what qualifies him for an IEP and what is required to be repeated every three years to show improvement or not. They can not dismiss the IEP if they do not test and show he has improved and is at grade level. It is not based on the teachers or coordinators opinion of how he is doing based on his grades. A child can have an IEP and get A's and B's in the class but that has nothing to do with his needs and meeting them. Just because he is behind the class does not mean he should get bad grades and not pass tests.

I am kind of confused as to where you are coming from with all of this because what you are saying does not follow the laws and what an IEP, grades, and being behind is all about.

Also because one kid passed a test in social studies while every other kid failed it so the teacher retested them all and that was cheating? There is nothing wrong with a teacher seeing that the whole class did not understand the material taught based on the tesing so she goes back over the material to make sure they understand and then test them again to make sure they got it. What would be wrong is to allow the whole class, minus one kid, get F's and just move on to the next topic without them learning the lesson.

As for extra worksheets to help a child boost their grade is not a bad thing because through those worksheets a child is learning things they need to know. It's not like the kid gets and F so the teacher chooses to change it to a B just because she doesn't want a kid to fail her class to make her look bad. She is giving the child another chance to learn more and giving them a grade for it based on what their work on that particular worksheet, what is wrong with that?

If you want your child to get bad grades just because he has a learning difference that is not good and I don't think the teachers would be right to purposely give your child lower grades because you want it that way. That is the way this is coming across anyway but forgive me if I am reading something in it that you do not mean. I would be more concerned if my child were getting a bad grade that they were not teaching him what he needs to know in the class because he is not grasping it as represented by the bad grade.[/QUOTE What I am trying to say is that I think he is being given to much help on his math tests, almost to the point of being given the answers.I want the grades on his math tests to reflect what he really knows.Also I never once said anything about cheating.I mentioned the bonus work and test retaking only to point out these end up boosting low test scores.He will take the state test in the spring and I hope his score shows he really has improved as much as these current tests imply.