Prices for resales

[DougEMG]

Ugh - I'm in the same boat here. I see the postings showing the average sales price (usually mid 50's) and then look at the available listings and they're $61-70, or higher. I realize it's normal to offer a few dollars per point less but a full 10 dollars? It seems like a major lowball.

I realize many sellers are distressed and need higher amounts to get out of their contracts but for the ones that are paid off, I'm having a really hard time connecting the sold prices I see posted on here with the current asking prices.

And the brokers can't do much to give anyone preferential treatment like a realtor can. I never get emails or calls like "I have this great VWL coming up and you need to bid on it!" and such. It's getting disconcerting.

Offering $20+ per point below asking is real low balling, offering $10 below asking is pretty normal.

 

[DougEMG]

Exactly - this is how I feel. It makes me wonder if buying resale is worth it. I know it is, but it just seems like such a long frustrating process.

If you want to get a real low price like some of the people here, then be prepared to take a lot of time and effort. If saving over direct with minimal effort is what you want then make offers within a couple of dollars of asking price.

SSR direct $100+/point
SSR resale easy $70/point
SSR resale lots of effort $50-$55/point

Your savings are going to be proportional to the amount of time and effort you put into it.

 

[DougEMG]

I think that is more often the case when people are trying to score a really great deal. There is nothing wrong with doing that, but as several posters have said, it can take more time and effort to get an amazing deal. Almost three years ago I found a contract that was just what we were looking for. I made an offer, offer was quickly accepted, and everything through closing went very smoothly. I actually offered asking price on our contract because it was a fair price - not an amazing deal, but fair and in line with what other contracts were selling for at that time. The seller did agree to split closing costs and MFs with us, which saved us some money.

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First time I bought I offered extremely close to asking and the offer was accepted right away. I wasn't trying to get a real great deal, just an average deal. Adding on though I wanted a really good deal and was willing to spend lots of time hunting for it.

Best deal I ever had was SSR at $50/point, I paid closing, but no MF and it had 3 years of points. Pure luck I got that contract as another person, not a broker sent me the listing. So being lucky helps

 

[Jasonkat]

I'm not an expert in negotiation, but one thing I try to remember is the BUYER sets the price, not the seller. The other thing to remember is most "final prices" are the mid point between the seller's list and the buyer's first offer. So if a seller wants $70 and you offer $60 they will be convinced that accepting anything less than $65 means you're taking advantage of them. So it is in your best interest to bid well below fair value to avoid this problem.

The seller's list price is merely their first offer and is no way related to "fair value". Using, for example, the listing I'm bidding on now it's a 300 VWL for $66. The $66 is the seller's "offer" to potential buyers. I believe "fair" price is $58, so in my opinion this seller's offer is $8 over fair price.

So, given that, why is it a crime for me to do the same thing as them and offer $8 under "fair" price? Wouldn't I be just as out of line as they are?

So I offered $53 ($5 under "fair price") and hope to negotiate up to fair price. If I had offered $58 I'm pretty sure the seller would not accept anything below $62 (the mid-point of 66-58).

It is not in the buyer's best interest to make your first offer at "fair price" unless you tell the company it's a take-it-or-leave-it offer.


I live in NYC so I don't have a car so I can't compare this to car negotiation, but when I bought my condo I did research to find fair value ($500 a square foot) and then I saw some condos at $550/ foot that I liked so I offered $500. I kept getting denied but eventually I saw a nice condo for $450/foot so I offered $500/foot and got it. This was in 2010 (bad market) and still there were 10 bids over the first 3 days for this condo simply because it was 10% under-priced. I won the bidding because I offered fair value. Other people lost the bidding because they were trying to get a screaming deal. Regardless if list price was $550/foot or $450/foot I was offering $500/foot because that was fair value. The seller's price is irrelevant to what the market price really is.

The point is that in all negotiations you have to decide what your goal is: to pay more than fair value because the seller wants you to do that and you can buy quickly, to wait and wait until you can luck into a screaming deal, or find a good product and offer a fair price. Eventually your fair price will get accepted simply because it is a fair price.

 

[connorlevismom]

Are we allowed here to ask for help when it comes to deciding what to offer? I have a couple of contracts I am interested in but would love some advice on what to offer. There is a lot of good information on this thread alone so I am sure I could come up with something on my own. It is just always nice to have a second opinion.

 

[DannysMom]

I think you can ask, but remember that free advice on the Internet is usually worth exactly what you pay for it. ;-)

The best information I found when trying to determine fair market price for the type of contract I was interested in was in this forum on the ROFR thread. Knowing what other people were paying, and when helps immensely.

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[connorlevismom]

Sounds good.

I was informed my Sharon at Fidelity that maintenance fees are not negotiable at all. That I am expected to pay those if I make an offer. That does not seem right, but I will just offer whatever dollar amount less per point to make up for that.

 

[DannysMom]

Of course they are!

I can see that any deals made at this point in the year, with 2013 dues coming due soon, most sellers will expect buyers to cover 2013 dues. But I (personally) would not be reimbursing any 2012 dues if I were looking to make a deal now. Absolutely make your offers accordingly.

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[GOOFY D]

Sounds good.

I was informed my Sharon at Fidelity that maintenance fees are not negotiable at all. That I am expected to pay those if I make an offer. That does not seem right, but I will just offer whatever dollar amount less per point to make up for that.

Everything is negotiable. The amount of the MFs are determined by Disney, but anything is negotiable between the two parties as long as Disney gets their fees.

 

[connorlevismom]

Everything is negotiable. The amount of the MFs are determined by Disney, but anything is negotiable between the two parties as long as Disney gets their fees.

I tried to put in my offer that us and the seller will split 2013 fees since there are not banked points and the UY is Sept so no points coming until then. She would not let me. She told me I was expected to pay those. I think she is right - I just did not know I could not put that in my offer.

 

[DannysMom]

Any deals made now the 2013 dues will need to be paid in full to get to closing. So sellers will not be willing to give up any of "their" profit to do so. But you are also correct that you will not get anything for those dues until the last third of the year. So absolutely adjust your offers accordingly.

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[GOOFY D]

I tried to put in my offer that us and the seller will split 2013 fees since there are not banked points and the UY is Sept so no points coming until then. She would not let me. She told me I was expected to pay those. I think she is right - I just did not know I could not put that in my offer.

The 2013 dues will have to be paid in full. If the buyer is not willing to pay them and then reimburse you for the half (i.e. split), then you would be required to pay them in order to fulfill the responsibility of the owner. However, simply calculate that cost and deduct it from your offer (same out of pocket cost in the long run).

 

[ninjagirl]

Another vote for rachel! She was great to work with!

Rachel has been absolutely fantastic with us as well. She's willing to present whatever offer you want but is willing to let you know when you're getting to a danger zone as well with breaking a deal. She does a great job of navigating her responsibilities to both the seller and the buyer and in dealing with her I've never once felt put out or that she wasn't on my side. After this purchase another resale isn't in our future, but I wouldn't want to work with anyone else.

 

[Missyrose]

After this purchase another resale isn't in our future, but I wouldn't want to work with anyone else.

Hahaha, that's what you think. But addonitis is real and it will sneak up on you faster than you think.

 

[ninjagirl]

Hahaha, that's what you think. But addonitis is real and it will sneak up on you faster than you think.

We got hit with addonitis four days before closing on our first one. We're now under contract and that really is it. We have plenty of points to grow into and enough to travel every year. With a 12 hour drive to Orlando, I'm pretty sure once a year is about as much as anyone can handle it.

The family is however excited that even before we've taken our first trip, being a DVC member just "feels" different. Our ADRs are made, our rooms are booked and there's absolutely no pressure at all for any of the rest of it. I think this has put us in the mindset of just enjoying DVC for a good, long time.

 

[undchefreak]

Remember that there's a chance that people who pay a little more don't want to report their sale because they may think they paid too much and feel cheated, or something like that. I know that I'm waiting on something now that was higher than the average prices shown here. It's a smaller contract, so I don't feel too bad about it, and it works out a to a few hundred dollars. I will report here when I get word, but I don't want to jinx the deal.

Remember, self reporting is typically filtered, especially when there's nothing to brag about.

 

[crisi]

Remember that there's a chance that people who pay a little more don't want to report their sale because they may think they paid too much and feel cheated, or something like that. I know that I'm waiting on something now that was higher than the average prices shown here. It's a smaller contract, so I don't feel too bad about it, and it works out a to a few hundred dollars. I will report here when I get word, but I don't want to jinx the deal.

Remember, self reporting is typically filtered, especially when there's nothing to brag about.

I was about to post the same thing.

Averages here will be lower than general. Both because people are more likely to report a good deal than an OK one, and because DISers are pretty educated going into the process.

I just sold a house. I'd listed it for a "more than reasonable" price - and the first offer came in lowball. My realtor presented it (as required), but because my price was reasonable, by the end of the weekend I had a bidding war between six buyers. I ended up selling the house for more than it was probably worth

I'd sell my DVC contract the same way - listing it for a low price, and "considering" all offers for as long as I could before accepting one.

If you have time to be patient, you can get a good deal. But resale takes time even if you get accepted on the first go. If you need to use the points in the next 12 months or less, consider the risk of not having those points when you need to book a room.

 

[imapoohbear12]

She is wrong you offer what you want they have to present it. I did not pay any MF the seller agreed to I used Rachael at Fidelty

 

[dreamprfct]

Could someone pm me her contact info?