Certificate of Citizenship vs Naturalization

[Scrappygrrl]

Ugh - having a small crisis here. We booked this Dream cruise to Bahamas last minute, I and my oldest are traveling with Passports, youngest a BC (the correct raised seal one from Dept of Vital Statistics), and husband with his Naturalization certificate and DL (his US passport expired in 2010). I called, I read up on requirements and thought all was good. I am checking in online and and doublechecking that everything is in order, and I see that my husbands papers are a "Certificate of Citizenship" not a "Certificate of Naturalization". Doing a little research it turns out that his parents became naturalized citizens before he turned 18 so he is a derived citizen from their citizenship. Of course, NO cruise websites or Dept of CBP mention this document anywhere. It is absolute proof of citizenship, but nowhere is that document explicitly listed for closed loop cruises. Anyone have any experience with this?

DH is on the phone now trying to get an appt with the Philadelphia Passport office to get it expedited, but he is NOT HAPPY with the situation (he thinks he will be A-OK, but I don't think we should take the chance)

 

[epgirl]

I think he'll be fine. I also became a US citizen when I was 17 b/c my mom became a US citizen when I was a minor and my dad was already a US citizen. I'm pretty sure my certificate is a "Certificate of Naturalization" but I can't remember. I know I used that along with my driver's license to travel to Canada, Mexico, and Grand Cayman (by airplane) back before you needed a passport (about 10 yrs ago). The Certificate of Naturalization and the Certificate of Citizenship are pretty much the same thing in the sense that they both certify that the person on the certificate is a US Citizen. Regardless if the certificate says "naturalized" or not, he/she is now a US Citizen and the certificate issued at the time of citizenship is official government proof of citizenship.

 

[karyn0995]

Hi,
We sailed on the Fantasy a few weeks back and while our situation was slightly different, we had no problem using our son's Certificate of Citizenship (CoC). He was born in Russia and became a US Citizen at 14 months, he is now 5 years old. Like you, a few weeks before our cruise I noticed our cruise documents AND the website said we needed his Certificate of Naturalization and I freaked. I googled the difference in the two documents, and called DCL to ask if the CoC would be good enough. The CM I spoke to said, "Yeah, probably." Not very comforting. For reasons that are way too lengthy, we do not have a US Passport for him yet. I was soooooo very stressed at check-in for our cruise that I almost made myself sick. Thankfully, our check in person was absolutely wonderful and immediately calmed my nerves. She said since his CoC had his picture on it we were good to go, and also said that CoC meant we didn't need to provide his birth certificate or our adoption papers. In her words, "A US Citizen is a US Citizen, and nothing can prove that better than a Certificate of Citizenship with a photo!" WOOHOO!!!

Now, she also said that "old" CoC's do NOT include the individual's pictures and sometimes there are snags with those.

I really hope your issue gets resolved, but if it doesn't I hope you get the same lady checking you in that checked us in!

Best of luck

 

[Bonniec]

Does he live here in the US? If so, his greencard is fine. I just verified this a few weeks ago with border patrol.

 

[epgirl]

A green card will not suffice since green cards are for US residents who are not citizens. Proof of US Citizenship is required and a Certificate of Citizenship or a Certificate of Naturalization with the photo on either form will be the only proof of citizenship that will be accepted other than a US passport.

 

[Bonniec]

A green card will not suffice since green cards are for US residents who are not citizens. Proof of US Citizenship is required and a Certificate of Citizenship or a Certificate of Naturalization with the photo on either form will be the only proof of citizenship that will be accepted other than a US passport.

Yes it will. Like I said, I personally checked into this. I can't say whether it is enough for all cruises but I know for sure it is when going to the Bahamas.


First, this is taken directly from the DCL web site:
"If you live and work in the U.S. and are a legal permanent resident of the U.S., you must provide a valid Legal Permanent Resident Card, also known as a "Green Card" or "Alien Resident Card (ARC)""
(If you want the link for that, go to the DCL web site, go to planning, pull up the port and then click on passport and travel documentation. Then click the link that says: U.S. Legal Permanent Residents)


I was surprised that a green card would be enough so I called DCL directly to verify...TWICE (because I don't trust their reps to always know, lol). Both times I was told yes.

THEN (yes, I am paranoid) I wrote to Border Patrol for a direct source and this was the email I received back.

"Dear Bonnie,
Your family members can return to the US if they have valid green cards, and I am sure they will be OK for the Bahamas if Disney Cruises said that. Disney carries thousands of passengers every day, so they know the rules for the countries their ships visit. I hope this answer helps.

Mark"


Lastly, in my search I had posted a thread about this and a poster verified a member of her party went on with a green card and had no problems. See post #9.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

Yes it will. Like I said, I personally checked into this. I can't say whether it is enough for all cruises but I know for sure it is when going to the Bahamas.


First, this is taken directly from the DCL web site:
"If you live and work in the U.S. and are a legal permanent resident of the U.S., you must provide a valid Legal Permanent Resident Card, also known as a "Green Card" or "Alien Resident Card (ARC)""
(If you want the link for that, go to the DCL web site, go to planning, pull up the port and then click on passport and travel documentation. Then click the link that says: U.S. Legal Permanent Residents)


I was surprised that a green card would be enough so I called DCL directly to verify...TWICE (because I don't trust their reps to always know, lol). Both times I was told yes.

THEN (yes, I am paranoid) I wrote to Border Patrol for a direct source and this was the email I received back.

"Dear Bonnie,
Your family members can return to the US if they have valid green cards, and I am sure they will be OK for the Bahamas if Disney Cruises said that. Disney carries thousands of passengers every day, so they know the rules for the countries their ships visit. I hope this answer helps.

Mark"


Lastly, in my search I had posted a thread about this and a poster verified a member of her party went on with a green card and had no problems. See post #9.

I don't think you are understand the OP's original statement.

Her husband does NOT have a green card because he is no longer has permanent residence status, her husband is now a naturalized citizen. When you become a USC at the swearing in cermony, you actually are required to give them your now invalid green card.

Not to mention, I am a green card holder and on my DCL cruise had to present CBP my passport along with my GC to re-enter the US. While the law might not require it, it saved me the hassle of potentially having to go through a secondary screening.

 

[Bonniec]

I don't think you are understand the OP's original statement.

Her husband does NOT have a green card because he is no longer has permanent residence status, her husband is now a naturalized citizen. When you become a USC at the swearing in cermony, you actually are required to give them your now invalid green card.

That's fine, I wasn't sure whether he would still have his green card or not. Was just responding back to EPgirl (regarding green cards).

Hopefully OP finds the answer. It's a total pain in the butt trying to get a hold of someone to find out. It took border patrol several days to get back to me. I'm sure it will likely be fine with what he has but I'd be verifying too!

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

That's fine, I wasn't sure whether he would still have his green card or not. Was just responding back to EPgirl.

Hopefully OP finds the answer. It's a total pain in the butt trying to get a hold of someone to find out. It took border patrol several days to get back to me. I'm sure it will likely be fine with what he has but I'd be verifying too!

I am sure the certificate of naturalization will suffice in the OP's situation. I beleive someone who had the actually experience said they didn't have any issues but hopefully her DH get his passport before then so it won't matter anyway

 

[Scrappygrrl]

Thanks all -you are correct - he does not have a green card, he is a US citizen. His CoC has a picture, so that is at least re-assuring.
I think we are just going to go ahead with the passport renewal, he should have a valid one anyway.

It's just unnerving you know? I don't want to chance someone questioning it and then we are SOL because it doesn't specifically say Naturalization (they really should update the wording of the statute/law) . Now, I just need to chill out my DH h
(I promised him that this last minute trip would be drama-free, yeah right!)

 

[epgirl]

Bonnie,
This thread is in regards to proof of US citizenship.
The only information I see on DCL's website under planning and documentation is that proof of citizenship is required.
http://disneycruise.disney.go.com/faqs/preparing-for-your-cruise/proof-of-citizenship/
Regardless, it is every cruise line's policy that it is ultimately the passenger's responsibility to gather the current document requirements from the US Dept of State because any country can change their document requirements at any time and DCL will not be liable for advising a passenger incorrectly.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

Thanks all -you are correct - he does not have a green card, he is a US citizen. His CoC has a picture, so that is at least re-assuring.
I think we are just going to go ahead with the passport renewal, he should have a valid one anyway.

It's just unnerving you know? I don't want to chance someone questioning it and then we are SOL because it doesn't specifically say Naturalization (they really should update the wording of the statute/law) . Now, I just need to chill out my DH h
(I promised him that this last minute trip would be drama-free, yeah right!)

I am sure it will be fine. 'Naturalization' is just the process for someone born outside the U.S. to become a citizen. The CoC validates his citizenship in the same manner than a U.S. BC does for someone else. ( But I agree with you that having a passport is best since if anything happens in a foreign port and you all need to fly back. Not that anything like that will happen, it's more if a what if )

I hope you have wonderful cruise and I look forward to hearing about it.

 

[Bonniec]

Bonnie,
This thread is in regards to proof of US citizenship.
The only information I see on DCL's website under planning and documentation is that proof of citizenship is required.
http://disneycruise.disney.go.com/faqs/preparing-for-your-cruise/proof-of-citizenship/
Regardless, it is every cruise line's policy that it is ultimately the passenger's responsibility to gather the current document requirements from the US Dept of State because any country can change their document requirements at any time and DCL will not be liable for advising a passenger incorrectly.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if you had to turn in your green card or not once you have citizenship. Good info to know since my DH and kids are getting ready to go through the whole process.

Regarding the green card (which I see won't help the OP), I listed above where to find the info. And I agree with you that I don't fully trust Disney personel on info which is why I got so paranoid and contacted border patrol directly. I also called them after that email I got and asked if that could change. He said things can always change but when something like that changes, plenty of notice is given. He told me not to worry and that DH and kids would be fine with just their green cards. In my thread, you can see the story of my whole wierd issue. I don't want to take up the OPs thread.

I was just hoping maybe he'd have a green card because it would have fixed the problem but I can see now that's not the case.

 

[su_A_ve]

Does he live here in the US? If so, his greencard is fine. I just verified this a few weeks ago with border patrol.

Further, OP is referring to a certificate of citizenship. Those who get 'derived' citizenship due to one or both parents being a citizen.

Residency has nothing to do in this case. The person would not have to have a green card in order to get the certificate. The person is to be deemed a citizen from day one.

 

[su_A_ve]

Yeah, I wasn't sure if you had to turn in your green card or not once you have citizenship. Good info to know since my DH and kids are getting ready to go through the whole process.

Regarding the green card (which I see won't help the OP), I listed above where to find the info. And I agree with you that I don't fully trust Disney personel on info which is why I got so paranoid and contacted border patrol directly. I also called them after that email I got and asked if that could change. He said things can always change but when something like that changes, plenty of notice is given. He told me not to worry and that DH and kids would be fine with just their green cards. In my thread, you can see the story of my whole wierd issue. I don't want to take up the OPs thread.

I was just hoping maybe he'd have a green card because it would have fixed the problem but I can see now that's not the case.

A green card only proves residency. It does not prove citizenship and therefore is not valid for travel outside of the US. You need a passport and depending on your country of citizenship, you might need a visa.

 

[neg58]

Further, OP is referring to a certificate of citizenship. Those who get 'derived' citizenship due to one or both parents being a citizen.

Residency has nothing to do in this case. The person would not have to have a green card in order to get the certificate. The person is to be deemed a citizen from day one.

Not quite day one. A Natural Citizen can become president even if not born on US soil, such as a baby born while parents are in another country. John McCain was born in the Canal Zone, but both parents had been citizens for the prior 10 years, so it is as if he was born in the US. Usually those people have a consulate issued certificate of foreign birth.

A Naturalized Citizen cannot become president. My daughter, born in China, is a naturalized citizen and has a certificate of citizenship.

I was checking my documentation requirements today for the Disney cruise and my checklist says 'Naturalization Certificate' not C of C. I think Disney is using the terms interchangeably when they do have slightly different meanings for how and why the person became a citizen, but really no difference if proving citizenship.

For my daughter, I love having the US passport. I've found it is easier to give the state official/government office/DMV clerk what he wants. Those people don't want a foreign birth certificate with a copy of the law that made her an automatic citizen (and they will give you the 'duh' look if do give them those documents). They don't want a certificate of foreign birth with a C of C. They want a passport. They understand passports. I give them the passport.

Nancy

 

[Bonniec]

A green card only proves residency. It does not prove citizenship and therefore is not valid for travel outside of the US.

Like I said, I wasn't sure at the time I posted if her DH had a green card. And I get now that he doesn't so it doesn't matter to her.

But yes you can go to the Bahamas with just a green card. At least from Port Canaveral or Miami. I posted where that was verified. See above.

 

[Handbag Lady]

OP, don't forget one of the best pieces of DIS advice out there: call your congressman or representative's office for help in expediting a passport or renewal in case time is short.

I would NEVER have thought to do this until I read it here. We're good for 8 years on our passports, but I just know I'll forget to renew in time for a future vacation.

 

[neg58]

OP, don't forget one of the best pieces of DIS advice out there: call your congressman or representative's office for help in expediting a passport or renewal in case time is short.

I would NEVER have thought to do this until I read it here. We're good for 8 years on our passports, but I just know I'll forget to renew in time for a future vacation.

If you are having trouble getting a passport, yes, your reps/senators CAN help, but it is not any faster or cheaper. If you just need a renewal, it is faster to go directly through a passport processing center found in most major cities. If you have a ticket to travel out of the country, or if you need to get a visa before travel, they can process it within 2-3 hours, or within 24 hours. Faster you need it, the more you pay.

Any reps' office is going to take a few days just to arrange the appointment for you to take in your paperwork, and that's really all they are doing, arranging the appointment.

Nancy

 

[Scrappygrrl]

DH just got finished at the Philadelphia Passport office...his passport will be ready in 2 days. Whew!