Festival of the Lion King to close in January

[MJMcBride]

You sound strangely sure, why? Do you know him or do you have some other kind of inside info?

Nothing that's not out there. That is Cameroon and imagineers are butting heads which shouldn't be surprising. It happened with Lucas too

 

[monkeyjuce]

Nothing lasts forever...

 

[DanBoris]

It's worth noting... Nothing even remotely official is hinting that the Avatar project has been delayed.

The latest rumors were based off a single fansite deciding that since Disney has not released any official concept art, that the project must have been delayed.

This it not true. There are people on other message boards who have proven track records for having inside knowledge of what is going on inside Disney. A number of these people have reported that project is having difficulties and has mainly come down to a conflict between what Cameron wants and what Disney is willing to pay for. Anyone who has read anything about Cameron's past projects should be surprised at all about that.

 

[DanBoris]

I do not know your business but I suspect it does not have a small very very vocal community on websites.

DIS and other communities make up a very small percentage of guests. Disney will not base thier strategies on what we say here

Not to mention the fact that you would probably want to know what non-Disney fans think of this idea, since these are the people you really want to go after if you want to grow WDW attendance. By going with a non-Disney proprety you can potentially tap into a population who has never, or very rarely visted Disney. Whether Avatar would achieve that or not is up for debate.

 

[DCTooTall]

This it not true. There are people on other message boards who have proven track records for having inside knowledge of what is going on inside Disney. A number of these people have reported that project is having difficulties and has mainly come down to a conflict between what Cameron wants and what Disney is willing to pay for. Anyone who has read anything about Cameron's past projects should be surprised at all about that.

Difficulties, or butting of heads though I wouldn't call an official delay. It's just part of the process.

In many ways, the creative processes aren't going to impacted too much during the early processes by the money people. It's not until they start to get an idea of what they want to do, that they will have a better idea of the costs, and then the money people will get involved.

 

[Reddog1134]

This it not true. There are people on other message boards who have proven track records for having inside knowledge of what is going on inside Disney. A number of these people have reported that project is having difficulties and has mainly come down to a conflict between what Cameron wants and what Disney is willing to pay for. Anyone who has read anything about Cameron's past projects should be surprised at all about that.

I don't know if you're reading the same boards as me but some of "those" type people are saying Avatarland has slowed down to a snails pace and attention is being shifted to DHS.

 

[DanBoris]

Difficulties, or butting of heads though I wouldn't call an official delay. It's just part of the process.

In many ways, the creative processes aren't going to impacted too much during the early processes by the money people. It's not until they start to get an idea of what they want to do, that they will have a better idea of the costs, and then the money people will get involved.

The reports I have read are that they have already reached the point of knowing what they want to do and money has now become the point of contention and that this is delaying and may eventually kill the project.

 

[pilferk]

This it not true. There are people on other message boards who have proven track records for having inside knowledge of what is going on inside Disney. A number of these people have reported that project is having difficulties and has mainly come down to a conflict between what Cameron wants and what Disney is willing to pay for. Anyone who has read anything about Cameron's past projects should be surprised at all about that.

Actually, it IS true.

Nothing official has been announced.

The "recent rumors" (meaning the ones spawned from the IGN article...see reference from previous poster, above) ARE all sourced back to a single article which says the reason they suspect a delay is simply the fact they've seen no concept art.

Now...there may be other rumors out there, from other sources. But, proven track record or not, they are unsourced internet rumors on message boards....which means they should be considered as such.

I have not seen any reputable source (meaning press or reputable web site) publish rumors NOT sourced back to that original IGN article....

 

[DanBoris]

Actually, it IS true.

Nothing official has been announced.

The "recent rumors" (meaning the ones spawned from the IGN article...see reference from previous poster, above) ARE all sourced back to a single article which says the reason they suspect a delay is simply the fact they've seen no concept art.

Now...there may be other rumors out there, from other sources. But, proven track record or not, they are unsourced internet rumors on message boards....which means they should be considered as such.

But if you read message boards long enough, you learn who you can trust, and who you can't. Taking into consideration all the evidence I have seen, I tend to believe the reports that Avatar is not moving ahead smoothly. I think it is unfair to claim that rumors of it's delay are based soley on the lack of concept art.

 

[pilferk]

But if you read message boards long enough, you learn who you can trust, and who you can't. Taking into consideration all the evidence I have seen, I tend to believe the reports that Avatar is not moving ahead smoothly. I think it is unfair to claim that rumors of it's delay are based soley on the lack of concept art.

They're still message board rumors, right? 'Nuff said.

YOU might lend credence to them..but you can't actually expect others to. I don't mean that as a knock on you, either. But anonymously posted, non-cross checked, non-corroberated rumors, of any type, are certainly to be taken with a pretty big grain of salt. And you certainly can't tell someone they're "wrong" based on that. Yes, it's more information to consider....but it's up to the individual how much weight they want to give to them. It's certainly not evidence that what was being said was "not true".

And, again, in the context of the conversation...the "recent rumors" being talked about were those sourced to the IGN article (look at the poster DC was talking to..THEY linked the IGN article and said it was their source)...because they're the only "recent rumors" from any sort of reputable source.

Unless there's something else out there we've missed?

 

[skier_pete]

I've been following internet rumors and news on Disney for 6 years now, and I would say currently that I have yet to see the rumor of Avatarland being canceled from any source that I would consider reliable.

Now as far as delays - anyone that knows anything about James Cameron knows that if he's involved, there are going to be delays. The guy moves at a snails pace. It took him 12 years to make Avatar. (And I know this because I read a treatment for this movie back in 1999 that was very very close to the final product.) The sequels have already been pushed back at least a year. I would never expect disney to get it done on the initial schedule.

I keep commenting on this, but it is funny how strongly negative the general response to Avatar on this website is. However, does "DISboarders" really represent the majority of people?

First off - the movie is the #1 all-time box office movie. $3 Billion world-wide.

"OK" you say, "but people that went didn't really like it that much."

Well, then let's look at DVD sales. For 2010, Avatar sold in excess of 10+ million DVD in the US alone, making $189 million additional dollars. Second was Toy Story 3 with 9 million, then Twilight: New Moon with 7.8 million. Worldwide it sold 30 million copies.

It's hard to judge how good 10 Million copies is, since DVD sales have been dwindling, but there are only 3 movies that topped 10 million copies in the last 5 years, and the other two are Twilight and Dark Knight.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say with this. Twilight is extremely popular, but would make a horrible theme park attraction. (I'm sure they'd get long lines for the shirtless Jacob meet and greet though.) I think Avatar has both a popular world-wide audience, and the ability to be make an interesting theme park attraction.

I always come back to this - Splash Mountain came from Song of the South, which by the late eighties/early ninties was NOT anywhere near mainstream popularity. However, it made a great Disney Theme park property. Yes, I know it was a Disney product, but still.

I guess I just don't get all the dismissal/vitriol at Avatarland. If the response was "meh, not my favorite movie, but let's see where it goes", I would understand, but this "What an awful idea, how dare they, I hope its canceled". I just really don't understand it.

 

[pilferk]

I've been following internet rumors and news on Disney for 6 years now, and I would say currently that I have yet to see the rumor of Avatarland being canceled from any source that I would consider reliable.

For longer than that (back to rec.arts.disneyparks newsgroup days) and ditto.

But I don't lend credence to much I read on any message board in terms of rumors concerning Disney. There are posters I find more compelling/reliable than others...but even those posters I take with a grain of salt, because they've all been wrong, at one point or another. Until Disney announces it, or vertical construction starts (aka Bay Lake Tower), or there's a reputable press-type account (or reputable disney news site) that withstands scrutiny....it's all just interesting theorycrafting.

 

[Fantasmiss]

I guess I just don't get all the dismissal/vitriol at Avatarland. If the response was "meh, not my favorite movie, but let's see where it goes", I would understand, but this "What an awful idea, how dare they, I hope its canceled". I just really don't understand it.

For me anyway it's more a case of " I wish they were planning something I could get excited about, or at least be bothered about instead".

 

[DCTooTall]

For longer than that (back to rec.arts.disneyparks newsgroup days) and ditto.

But I don't lend credence to much I read on any message board in terms of rumors concerning Disney. There are posters I find more compelling/reliable than others...but even those posters I take with a grain of salt, because they've all been wrong, at one point or another. Until Disney announces it, or vertical construction starts (aka Bay Lake Tower), or there's a reputable press-type account (or reputable disney news site) that withstands scrutiny....it's all just interesting theorycrafting.

Ya know.... When Rec.arts.Disney split into the subgroups, i kinda gave up the serious online fandom side of things for probably a little over 10yrs. I didn't get REALLY active again until I started getting active around here.

That does bring back some memories though.

DCTootal
EX- RAD Host
EX- FDC Walkaround Heffalump and Woozle.

 

[DanBoris]

They're still message board rumors, right? 'Nuff said.

YOU might lend credence to them..but you can't actually expect others to. I don't mean that as a knock on you, either. But anonymously posted, non-cross checked, non-corroberated rumors, of any type, are certainly to be taken with a pretty big grain of salt. And you certainly can't tell someone they're "wrong" based on that. Yes, it's more information to consider....but it's up to the individual how much weight they want to give to them. It's certainly not evidence that what was being said was "not true".

And, again, in the context of the conversation...the "recent rumors" being talked about were those sourced to the IGN article (look at the poster Doc was talking to..THEY linked the IGN article and said it was their source)...because they're the only "recent rumors" from any sort of reputable source.

Unless there's something else out there we've missed?

To each his own. Personally there are people I find reputable and I don't consider them anonymous just because I don't know their real names (although in some cases I do). I agree completely that people need to make up their own minds, that's why I try hard to just present the facts and not bias them with my opinion. I am actually one of the few people I have seen on the boards that really like the Avatar idea and really want to see it built!

As for Avatar being canceled, I will agree, not even the sources I trust have gone as far to say it's been canceled.

 

[iuki]

We were at AK this morning and saw The Lion King show. The CM said that the show will be relocated somewhere in Africa, but that the show is their biggest attraction and would not do away with it.

 

[MJMcBride]

IWell, then let's look at DVD sales. For 2010, Avatar sold in excess of 10+ million DVD in the US alone, making $189 million additional dollars. Second was Toy Story 3 with 9 million, then Twilight: New Moon with 7.8 million. Worldwide it sold 30 million copies.

Whats your source for this? Everything i see does not have Avatar in the Top 20 all time on DVD sales

 

[Reddog1134]

Whats your source for this? Everything i see does not have Avatar in the Top 20 all time on DVD sales

http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/charts/annual/2010.php

I don't think he said "all-time" though.

 

[MJMcBride]

http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/charts/annual/2010.php

I don't think he said "all-time" though.

Fair enough. So it's not 1 of the top DVD sellers of all time What you think goes to show that it's more of a gimmick movie Then 1 that will stand the test of time

 

[pilferk]

To each his own. Personally there are people I find reputable and I don't consider them anonymous just because I don't know their real names (although in some cases I do). I agree completely that people need to make up their own minds, that's why I try hard to just present the facts and not bias them with my opinion. I am actually one of the few people I have seen on the boards that really like the Avatar idea and really want to see it built!
.

Exactly.

But there is a fundamental difference between "I disagree" and "That's not true".

One is an opinion. One is a categorical judgement on fact.

You certainly have a basis for the 1st. You don't really have any solid basis for the 2nd, especially given the context of the conversation.