DVC Options--Resale vs Disney?

mskayjay said:
"I've looked at the resale options, and boy, the prices look much more appealing than buying from Disney! What restrictions do I have from purchasing resale? From reading these posts, it looks like resale points are not available for cruises or the Adventures. What other restrictions are there?"

response
you lose the disney trades: cruises, AbyD, and trading for onsite hotels like the poly (which, like the cruises, is very expensive). that is all. there's no real loss in terms of value, but you do lose a few options if you don't care about price.

Can you please elaborate on the bolded part of the response here. We are still in the pondering stages of buying and my understanding is that if there is availability you can use your points at any of the onsite properties. You lose the cruises and AbyD of course but you can book at the other resorts. Is that not correct?

You may use your DVC points at any of the DVC resorts with availability at 7 months out. Using points to stay at non-DVC Disney resorts (moderates, or Poly, GF until construction finishes or nearly so) requires a trade and is one of the restrictions put in place on resale contracts. But the point costs to stay at those non-DVC Disney resorts is pretty high per night.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos.
 
So knowing that our "preferred" resorts are WL and AKV that is where we should by (and were planning on buying!) and we could use those points at other locations at the 7 mth window based on availability, correct? I got lost where Dean was referencing the Poly and the future GF DVC. The big thing at this point for us at least is do we go ahead and buy and lock ourselves in to DVC or do we rent as we go. Very torn.....
AKV may be your best value resale if those are your preferred options. That gives you potential access to concierge and the value villas and a later RTU. However, it may be more difficult to reserve VWL at 7 months than to get AKV at 7 months.
 
It's not a resale vs retail thing for other DVC resorts. Even though some will tell you that DVC could severe the ability for resale points to use at other resorts without removing resorts from the club, I do not believe that to be legally possible. There is no guarantee you'll be able to use those points at other resorts, there's not even a guarantee you can use them at your home resort though. The 2 reasons you couldn't use them would be if either your resort or other resorts were no longer in the club (very unlikely) or simply subject to availability, a significant issue for some times of the year and certain options.

Until you understand these issues and many others, you are not ready to buy in.

nm.......not going to bother.....
 
nm.......not going to bother.....
The point was that you need to understand the product before buying, esp since you have the opportunity. It usually takes about 6 months to do so with active investigation. I'm sorry if you think that wasn't helpful.
 


mskayjay said:
Wow! *sprinkle sprinkle* have some pixie dust Dean! I have spent a tremendous amount of time looking into this, talked with several friends who are owners, stayed as a DVC guest, gone to the presentations twice now, etc. Your answer to my initial post was a bit confusing and I asked you to clarify one point in your response.

Ahhh, don't take offense! This board is a no pixie dust zone. The helpful folks around here are all about providing useful and truthful information about DVC. The guides confuse more buyers with pixie dust. Then those same folks come here, upset that what they bought doesn't work like they thought it would, or how they thought their guide said it would.

I only just bought (resale!) DVC this summer. The first time we investigated it, at a presentation at the MK, was in 2007, I think. I know we made a good purchase for our family, but it took us 5 years of WDW trips and reading off & on to get there. And I know that I understand how DVC works better than folks who have been members for several years, because as a brand new member, I can answer some of their questions.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos.
 
The point was that you need to understand the product before buying, esp since you have the opportunity. It usually takes about 6 months to do so with active investigation. I'm sorry if you think that wasn't helpful.

Dean it was the bolded part that sounds quite harsh. Your initial response to my post had information that was a bit unclear and I asked for clarification of the one point. For what its worth, we have gone to 2 presentations with Disney, stayed on a friends points to get the true DVC experience (split stay to make sure we didn't judge just on one resort), researched the costs versus paying out of pocket for stays, compared renting from others versus buying, stayed at Marriott, Hilton, and Sheraton Timeshares and compared them to DVC, etc. We have indeed done our homework and then the retail vs. resale came up. Those changes are the only hiccup in our research and your explanation was a little confusing.

I thought I had it all down pat until I read your response which to me sounded like I couldn't stay at any resort at the 7 mth window. This reads that you can only stay at Poly for a deluxe option which made no sense at all and that is why I asked you to clarify.
"After GF is built, that only leaves the Poly as an option onsite for deluxe hotels and a DVC there is also rumored."
 
mskayjay said:
Dean it was the bolded part that sounds quite harsh. Your initial response to my post had information that was a bit unclear and I asked for clarification of the one point. For what its worth, we have gone to 2 presentations with Disney, stayed on a friends points to get the true DVC experience (split stay to make sure we didn't judge just on one resort), researched the costs versus paying out of pocket for stays, compared renting from others versus buying, stayed at Marriott, Hilton, and Sheraton Timeshares and compared them to DVC, etc. We have indeed done our homework and then the retail vs. resale came up. Those changes are the only hiccup in our research and your explanation was a little confusing.

I thought I had it all down pat until I read your response which to me sounded like I couldn't stay at any resort at the 7 mth window. This reads that you can only stay at Poly for a deluxe option which made no sense at all and that is why I asked you to clarify.
"After GF is built, that only leaves the Poly as an option onsite for deluxe hotels and a DVC there is also rumored."

It wasn't intended as harsh. It does sound like you may not understand the options well enough to but at present.
 


Dean it was the bolded part that sounds quite harsh. Your initial response to my post had information that was a bit unclear and I asked for clarification of the one point. For what its worth, we have gone to 2 presentations with Disney, stayed on a friends points to get the true DVC experience (split stay to make sure we didn't judge just on one resort), researched the costs versus paying out of pocket for stays, compared renting from others versus buying, stayed at Marriott, Hilton, and Sheraton Timeshares and compared them to DVC, etc. We have indeed done our homework and then the retail vs. resale came up. Those changes are the only hiccup in our research and your explanation was a little confusing.

I thought I had it all down pat until I read your response which to me sounded like I couldn't stay at any resort at the 7 mth window. This reads that you can only stay at Poly for a deluxe option which made no sense at all and that is why I asked you to clarify.
"After GF is built, that only leaves the Poly as an option onsite for deluxe hotels and a DVC there is also rumored."

A couple of things to note, just for the sake of clarification:

1) If you buy a DVC contract (either from Disney or via resale) you will be able to make a reservation at your home resort 11 months out from your vacation date and at any of the other DVC RESORTS at 7 months out.

2) The option to stay at non-DVC Disney Resorts only applies to contracts bought from Disney or via resale before March 20, 2011. As part of the Disney collection, you can use your DVC points to stay at one of the moderate resorts or at a deluxe resort (provided that resort doesn't have DVC villas), which right now is Fort Wilderness, the Poly, GF and Yacht Club. They're currently building DVC at GF, so once that opens, GF will exit the Disney Collection. The point costs for this option is often 3, 4 or even 5 times the per-night point cost at one of the DVC resorts. This is why many on this board say it is a poor value use for your points.

3) Dean happens to be one of the most knowledgeable people on these forums. He knows the details of DVC and other timeshare programs better than almost anyone. So while you think he comes off brusk, he is in fact attempting to give you the facts you need to make an informed decision.
 
It wasn't intended as harsh. It does sound like you may not understand the options well enough to but at present.

Fair enough. You can't "hear" someone's inflection through this form of conversation. I do appreciate your expertise but that one part really sounds like you were indicating that Poly was the only Deluxe that would be available and that is what threw me off.

have a great day :)
K
 
We didn't buy in Florida, but in international waters on the cruise ship (which is registered in the Bahamas). I imagine that is why they went with our home state's laws. That being said, we'll get something signed (either a form in the contract, which I'm looking for now) or will make a document ourselves within the 10 day window!
 
Fair enough. You can't "hear" someone's inflection through this form of conversation. I do appreciate your expertise but that one part really sounds like you were indicating that Poly was the only Deluxe that would be available and that is what threw me off.

have a great day :)
K
The Poly is the only deluxe Disney hotel available, none of the Disney properties that have DVC options can be reserved as a hotel. That was the focus of the conversation at the time. That this was confusing for you suggested to me that you didn't know the system well enough to make a truly informed decision. Now hopefully you're a little closer to being able to make the best decision for you and your family.

We didn't buy in Florida, but in international waters on the cruise ship (which is registered in the Bahamas). I imagine that is why they went with our home state's laws. That being said, we'll get something signed (either a form in the contract, which I'm looking for now) or will make a document ourselves within the 10 day window!
In that case legally I think FL law would be the correct answer but they could have written it differently.
 
mskayjay said:
"I've looked at the resale options, and boy, the prices look much more appealing than buying from Disney! What restrictions do I have from purchasing resale? From reading these posts, it looks like resale points are not available for cruises or the Adventures. What other restrictions are there?"

response
you lose the disney trades: cruises, AbyD, and trading for onsite hotels like the poly (which, like the cruises, is very expensive). that is all. there's no real loss in terms of value, but you do lose a few options if you don't care about price.

Can you please elaborate on the bolded part of the response here. We are still in the pondering stages of buying and my understanding is that if there is availability you can use your points at any of the onsite properties. You lose the cruises and AbyD of course but you can book at the other resorts. Is that not correct?

No, you can book at any DVC resort subject to availability, but not at any traditional cash resort. Although the point cost to stay at the traditional resorts is so high that you would be better to rent your year's DVC points out and pay cash rate anyway if you are really set on a non-DVC site. So again a theoretical resale "disadvantage" that is meaningless when you consider the full picture.

And finally, if you're worried about the hassle of renting out your DVC points to book a cash stay, then just bank points that year and use some of the $10,000 or so you will save buying resale to pay for that week at the Poly- and have double DVC points the next year!
 
The point was that you need to understand the product before buying, esp since you have the opportunity. It usually takes about 6 months to do so with active investigation. I'm sorry if you think that wasn't helpful.

We took 2 years checking out the DVC before we first bought, we visited the resorts and took the tours. Later I found the DIS and learned more here than anywhere.

What I didn't learn as a non-owner was that we would have problems with MS, our accounts, our rooms, or that during the last few years Disney would change the rules and policies, some OK some not so much. That taught me that Disney will and can do what ever they want and in the future additional things may change.

:earsboy: Bill
 
Based on what you have written I would cancel the purchase and take some time to determine if buying resale is a good option.

Take away the Disney magic and look at buying like you were buying a car.

Will the car save you money compared to other models? (can you get a good enough room discount by renting or using a Disney discount)

Do you like the look and feel that you get when you are driving it. (you should fall in love with your home resort)

Will you drive the car regularly? (you need to commit to a Disney vacation every 2 years for at least 10 years)

Do you have the money to buy gas? (dues, transportation, tickets, food, and extras can cost thousands per vacation)

Your car will sometimes break down. (you won't always be able to get the room you want and you may have issues with the room or with MS)

Disney makes their money selling DVC contracts. They will change the rules and policies to cause people to buy direct.

:earsboy: Bill

This is a great analogy and add to it, that Direct Sales are like purchasing a new Ford from a Ford dealership.

Resale is buying a used Ford from Bob's Auto World.

Also are you going to be happy with that Ford for a very, very long time.
 
This is a great analogy and add to it, that Direct Sales are like purchasing a new Ford from a Ford dealership.

Resale is buying a used Ford from Bob's Auto World.

Also are you going to be happy with that Ford for a very, very long time.

I would actually disagree with this statement. When it comes to staying at DVC resorts, a direct contract and a resale contract are the exact same thing. I think to compare a resale DVC contract to a used car cheapens it in a way. The connotation is that you are getting something that is run down or somebody else's problems.

I think it's important to make the point that resale can save you a ton of money, but when it comes to staying at DVC resorts, once you are an owner the product you receive and the treatment you receive is the same as a that of a direct purchaser.
 
We took 2 years checking out the DVC before we first bought, we visited the resorts and took the tours. Later I found the DIS and learned more here than anywhere.

What I didn't learn as a non-owner was that we would have problems with MS, our accounts, our rooms, or that during the last few years Disney would change the rules and policies, some OK some not so much. That taught me that Disney will and can do what ever they want and in the future additional things may change.

:earsboy: Bill
On a site such as DIS it is likely one would have had access to the additional info that you state you missed. I know I've hit many of those subjects over the years. I think the difference is that many ignored the info even when they saw it, I'll use reallocation as an example where some stated they knew it was possible but assumed it never happen. I think that currently the most overlooked areas are those that look to retail because of the cash type exchange options, those expecting to exchange in RCI and those accepting additional risk by financing a luxury purchase.
 
"I've looked at the resale options, and boy, the prices look much more appealing than buying from Disney! What restrictions do I have from purchasing resale? From reading these posts, it looks like resale points are not available for cruises or the Adventures. What other restrictions are there?"

response
you lose the disney trades: cruises, AbyD, and trading for onsite hotels like the poly (which, like the cruises, is very expensive). that is all. there's no real loss in terms of value, but you do lose a few options if you don't care about price.

Can you please elaborate on the bolded part of the response here. We are still in the pondering stages of buying and my understanding is that if there is availability you can use your points at any of the onsite properties. You lose the cruises and AbyD of course but you can book at the other resorts. Is that not correct?

At this time the Polynesian is the only Disney deluxe resort without a DVC section or one under construction. Grand Floridian will be removed from the Disney Collection as soon as the DVC section opens. Once a resort adds a DVC section you can not book it through the Disney Collection, you can book the DVC villas either at 11 months, if you own there, or 7 months if available.

As to what the future holds for restrictions to resales there is no way to know. You could be limited to your home resort only and with a reduced booking window. So that is why it is important to purchase where you do not mind be limited to, should that ever happen.
 
On a site such as DIS it is likely one would have had access to the additional info that you state you missed. I know I've hit many of those subjects over the years. I think the difference is that many ignored the info even when they saw it, I'll use reallocation as an example where some stated they knew it was possible but assumed it never happen. I think that currently the most overlooked areas are those that look to retail because of the cash type exchange options, those expecting to exchange in RCI and those accepting additional risk by financing a luxury purchase.

Bookmark this post on this thread, because I think that this is a conversation that we will be having at some point in the future. Many people who chose to buy direct for these options will certainly be upset should Disney choose to make these changes, and rightfully so. The real problem will be the people who feel duped, as if they never knew that Disney could do this. That is why it is especially important to put that asterisk there when talking about the current "advantages" of buying direct over resale. We can lay out all the options in as much detail as possible, but if we are really being responsible we need to say at the end that these options are not guaranteed and can be modified or taken away at any point in the future. I know a lot of posters do say this, but some do not.
 
Bookmark this post on this thread, because I think that this is a conversation that we will be having at some point in the future. Many people who chose to buy direct for these options will certainly be upset should Disney choose to make these changes, and rightfully so. The real problem will be the people who feel duped, as if they never knew that Disney could do this. That is why it is especially important to put that asterisk there when talking about the current "advantages" of buying direct over resale. We can lay out all the options in as much detail as possible, but if we are really being responsible we need to say at the end that these options are not guaranteed and can be modified or taken away at any point in the future. I know a lot of posters do say this, but some do not.
When I think of timeshares I mostly expect the worst and hope for the best. When I see people post about buying and it's clear that DVC ONLY makes sense for them if all the planets align, I know they're often setting themselves up for disaster down the road. Anything that adds risk to their life or additional costs may be the last straw down the road. Basically one should look at DVC and ask themselves "where would I be owning DVC if I lost my job, there were a $5000 special assessment and the parks all closed and we were made aware of them all on the same day". Obviously for this situation few if any would buy DVC but it sets the tone for how to think about a timeshare.
 
When I think of timeshares I mostly expect the worst and hope for the best. When I see people post about buying and it's clear that DVC ONLY makes sense for them if all the planets align, I know they're often setting themselves up for disaster down the road. Anything that adds risk to their life or additional costs may be the last straw down the road. Basically one should look at DVC and ask themselves "where would I be owning DVC if I lost my job, there were a $5000 special assessment and the parks all closed and we were made aware of them all on the same day". Obviously for this situation few if any would buy DVC but it sets the tone for how to think about a timeshare.

I have to admit...as much as I would be able to weather those other issues, the parks closing down would be a big bummer. But I estimate that the prospect of that happening is so small that it is more than an acceptable risk to take. But still I do see your overall point, and it's a good one.
 

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