Source: Avatar project for DAK postponed indefinitely

[Peter Pirate 2]

WIth all due respect, I don't feel I'm off at all. You are saying the "theme" (package) doesn't matter but then say what's "in" the package does. The point I and many others here are making is that Avatar as it stands it is a thin foundation for Disney to work with, as far as developing truly engaging "contents." That is certainly true when Avatar-land is compared to what Universal had to work with when they were developing the "contents" for Harry Potter.

Or put another way, in planning an entire theme park land, the breadth and depth of the range of characters and backstories matters -- and matters deeply.

It isn't about the story it is about how the story is presented in theme park fashion.

The mechanics of the HP attraction would have been a stellar crowd pleaser no matter where it was placed and ultimately the superb attraction combined with a lovely package trump whether HP or Avatar were good, great, lousy movies or not.

If the land and attraction's are riviting or compelling the popularity of that land will live regardless of the greatness of the basis or the longevity of the basis.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I can never understand why Disney chose to invest in Avatar in the first place. I assume that they were drawn in by the huge box office success of the movie, but they seem to be forgetting that the only reason it was such a success was that it was the first movie to do 3D "properly" - now that nearly every movie seems to be in 3D this novelty has worn off and I doubt that the sequel/s will do very well.

I mean, the movie franchise is nothing like, say, Star Wars or Harry Potter that have taken on lives of their own way beyond the movies themselves - I have never really heard anyone talk about Avatar beyond the day after they have watched it.

I hope this rumour is true because I could think of lots of better ways for Disney to spend that money!

You are comparing one movie to 6 and 7 respectively. There is a large geek contingent for Avatar, albeit not as big as Potter and Star Wars. While it might be premature, your statement is absolutely flawed in its logic until the 2nd and 3rd films come out. Very rarely does one movie a franchise make.

I like the concept of Avatarland or at least am intrigued by the possibilities. I'd rather see something Marvel related (but that won't happen) or Star Wars (THAT would be something that could truly stand against Potter land despite Lucas cheapening the Saga), but I'm at least willing to listen to the plans before giving the MASS overreaction that seems to be the Disboards rumors group. Political news media persons overreact less than many of the people who post on these boards.

 

[DrivnMeUpTheWall-E]

While it might be premature, your statement is absolutely flawed in its logic until the 2nd and 3rd films come out. Very rarely does one movie a franchise make.

I agree, It's quite obvious Disney is trying to get in 'at ground level', so to speak. We have no idea what is in store for Avatar 2 or 3, and who knows - Cameron might go the way of 'Beastly Kingdom' for Avatar 3 and everyone might be happy

 

[Disneyandphilliesfan]

Do you think this will ever be a reality?

 

[skier_pete]

I love it (OK hate it) how the rumors ARE the news on this one. The few facts that come out are summarily ignored in favor of negative rumors.

Just saw from StichKingdom (what I would consider a reliable source versus the website THIS thread was started on) that they did not renew the contracts for the Festival of the Lion King players, indicating that that show is going to be closed/moved come 2013. Seems like if Pandora isn't coming that this wouldn't be happening. So again, the facts dispute the rumors. But hey, believe the rumors instead.

(I have no doubt the project will be "delayed" from the original timeline. Most every project is, and particularly anything with Jim Cameron's handprints. But I don't remotely buy "Canceled". You can bet Lightstorm put a healthy "pay or play" deal into the contract, which means they get payed should Disney decide not to go ahead with it.

SkierPete

 

[fuzzlekins]

... Star Wars (THAT would be something that could truly stand against Potter land despite Lucas cheapening the Saga)

I'm not a SW "fan" by a longshot but I agree completely. I could really see Disney building a cantina with animatronic aliens that interact with guests, and you could go to the bar and order some crazy drinks. I could see another Dumbo type ride (no matter how many ways they make it, they're all my daughter's faves) with perhaps tie fighters. There could be virtual reality pod racing or maybe even a dueling coaster with that theme. The landscapes could be amazing and varied. It would be cool if Disney did an interactive and immersive themed attraction similar to IOA's Triton's Fury. That blew me away the first time through. Photo ops with a real R2D2 ... so many possibilities. And you know SW merchandising would work. Kids love those light sabers! In the hands of the Imagineers, it could definitely be amazing! Of course, it doesn't do anything for AK - it's obviously a HS addition.

 

[ChrisFL]

do you think this will ever be a reality?

no

 

[skier_pete]

I said it when it opened and continue to say it. WWoHP was and is a big boost for Universal but is also a small BOOST for Disney. I personally know several people that have gone to Orlando on vacation that haven't before or in many years.

Yes, more people are tearing a day or two away from their Disney vacation and traveling to Uni. But, in addition there are more people going to Disney because they want to go to Universal for Harry Potter, but really they still only need a few days there, so what do they do with the rest of their time? Why, go to Disney World of course!

Disney is taking a gamble on Avatar. Yes, right now there is one movie. The question is, will it be like getting into the "Star Wars" business in 1979, or will it be like getting into the "Matrix" business in 2001? There are clearly two more movies coming down the line, will those movies grow the franchise or kill the franchise? Disney is gambling that Cameron's track record says they are successful.

I still contend that this land has the potential to be fantastic. The biggest problem I see is that there are really no particularly memorable characters in the movie. However, I foresee the use of an interactive technology where every individual experiencing the attraction has an avatar made of themselves, who then their interface with the attraction. (Seen in reflections throughout the experience.) Imagine a virtual ride like that, everyone sees a version of themselves IN the ride. You can see Disney moving in that direction, and this is the perfect opportunity.

 

[DisneyDan73]

I, personally, think it makes Disney look like a frightened animal scrambling for anything to hold its ground. I tend not to put much stock in rumors even if I find some more interesting than others. So until the official press release I will choose the skeptic side of the debate. I did not like Avatar, no one can argue about the quality of the visual effects, they were spectacular. However the storyline was quite dull and very predictable. I'm all for Disney trying to bring new fans to the parks by bringing in non-Disney films into the parks. However I agree with the previous posts that LOTR is a far better choice. The 2013 Unofficial Guide states that both WDI and Universal are in talks with Peter Jackson to bring the Rings to their park. I have seen Avatar as well as Rings. Everything about LOTR has me geeked about seeing Hobbit this December. I only watched Avatar because everyone pimped it so much and I had a free redbox code, and was given no reason whatever to go see a sequel whenever it makes it to theaters. I'm sorry, I just don't see Avatar as that "beloved by generations" brand that has the lasting power of Harry Potter or Star Wars. Of all of them that one is the way to go even over Rings. It's already an established draw at DHS, no one would really mind seeing IJSS leaving to make room for Star Wars expansion. There are far more beloved characters, scenes, and locations from Star Wars than from Avatar and Rings combined, and we all know that Lucas can be bought. I'm sure that if Avatarland ever comes if will be very well themed and look amazing. But what else, I don't see Avatar merch flying off the shelves. What will the restaurant serve? What kind of shows can they base off of it?? Is there enough substance in Avatar to warrant an entire land?? My answer to that question is no. So if the rumors turn out to be true I can't say I'm going to be all that upset. Disney can do better. I think Disney has seen the comparison between the buzz from when Universal announced HP land, which was great, then the buzz from their announcement of Avatarland, which has been meh. And are thinking mayhap this has no real traction.

 

[fuzzlekins]

I, personally, think it makes Disney look like a frightened animal scrambling for anything to hold its ground. I tend not to put much stock in rumors even if I find some more interesting than others. So until the official press release I will choose the skeptic side of the debate. I did not like Avatar, no one can argue about the quality of the visual effects, they were spectacular. However the storyline was quite dull and very predictable. I'm all for Disney trying to bring new fans to the parks by bringing in non-Disney films into the parks. However I agree with the previous posts that LOTR is a far better choice. The 2013 Unofficial Guide states that both WDI and Universal are in talks with Peter Jackson to bring the Rings to their park. I have seen Avatar as well as Rings. Everything about LOTR has me geeked about seeing Hobbit this December. I only watched Avatar because everyone pimped it so much and I had a free redbox code, and was given no reason whatever to go see a sequel whenever it makes it to theaters. I'm sorry, I just don't see Avatar as that "beloved by generations" brand that has the lasting power of Harry Potter or Star Wars. Of all of them that one is the way to go even over Rings. It's already an established draw at DHS, no one would really mind seeing IJSS leaving to make room for Star Wars expansion. There are far more beloved characters, scenes, and locations from Star Wars than from Avatar and Rings combined, and we all know that Lucas can be bought. I'm sure that if Avatarland ever comes if will be very well themed and look amazing. But what else, I don't see Avatar merch flying off the shelves. What will the restaurant serve? What kind of shows can they base off of it?? Is there enough substance in Avatar to warrant an entire land?? My answer to that question is no. So if the rumors turn out to be true I can't say I'm going to be all that upset. Disney can do better. I think Disney has seen the comparison between the buzz from when Universal announced HP land, which was great, then the buzz from their announcement of Avatarland, which has been meh. And are thinking mayhap this has no real traction.

I agree with everything but the first statement. I wouldn't think Disney would be scared b/c Disney's and Universal's markets have overlap but are also different, and they're both in the same location so people can and do visit both. While Universal has obviously seen the biggest boost from HP (as they should), Disney probably has seen residual benefits. I like to think they're just doing smart business by reinvesting in their brand. They can't stay stagnant and expect numbers to climb. Refurbishment, replacement, and expansion is just the normal course of business for them.

 

[CandyMandy]

I'm sorry, I just don't see Avatar as that "beloved by generations" brand that has the lasting power of Harry Potter or Star Wars.

Excellent point, which codifies the weakness of the pro-Avatar arguments. They all state or imply the latter is already a robust, embedded franchise with a huge fan base of rabid, passionate fans.

But never offer any evidence to prove that.

I agree Disney looks like it is in somewhat desperate reaction mode if they are serious about pursuing this.

 

[Jasonkat]

Avatarland will fail because no one will care about it's plot in 30 years. How many people are really that passionate about hating Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan today?

Avatar is a political movie. When people forget about/no longer care about those politics they will lose interest in Avatar.

 

[diamondpixienc]

Avatarland will fail because no one will care about it's plot in 30 years. How many people are really that passionate about hating Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan today?

Avatar is a political movie. When people forget about/no longer care about those politics they will lose interest in Avatar.

Well, sadly most people don't really care or even sweat the theme of an attraction especially if it's a really cool ride itself. For example my local theme park here changed the kid's area from Nickelodeon to Peanuts. My kids don't care, they just want to ride the big kid coaster.

 

[rrushford]

I liked Avatar. Does it have a huge fan base for something like this though? I doubt it. They need to go back to their original plan of a Beastly Kingdom. That leaves it so open to so many ideas (even an Avatar addition).

 

[MJMcBride]

I liked Avatar. Does it have a huge fan base for something like this though? I doubt it. They need to go back to their original plan of a Beastly Kingdom. That leaves it so open to so many ideas (even an Avatar addition).

I definitely agree

 

[WDWChloe]

What is needed is the originally planned Beastly Kingdom!

Thank. You.

I didn't like Avatar, I'm pretty sure I never will.
It's just a ripoff of Pocahontas. "Original story"...

SOMETHING, ANYTHING [Disney] but Avatar. How is it even relateable to DAK besides the subject of conservation?

 

[sammons70]

I personally think that Disney has enough of it's own franchises to base new parks areas, and attractions on. I do agree with the pro comments about Up, Narnia, more Star Wars( now that they own the rights) etc. On the other hand, I do understand the financial implications of not competing with Universal. If there is a desire to have a "beastly kingdom" area in Animal Kingdom, and there is a need to compete with Universal's Harry Potter land, I'm wondering if Disney has looked at a partnership with Peter Jackson for Tolkein's Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. Nothing could better match theme of a " beastly kingdom. Dragons, Orks, Trolls, this land could have it all.

 

[stephm0188]

It's silly to compare Avatarland to WWOHP.
HP is so much more than just a movie. It had that mass appeal. There was a generation of kids who grew up reading the books with their parents and seeing the movies and dressing up as HP for Halloween. HP is very, very marketable because it has staying power. You have people who buy the merchandise and play quiddich and eat and drink things inspired by the storyline.

Avatar just doesn't have that. It was a beautiful, visually stunning movie that was directed by one of Hollywood's best, and that is about it. Once it was out of the theater, that was it. I have no doubt that Avatarland would be beautiful, but it doesn't have the potential to be classic Disney. In 10 years, I could take my kid to WWOHP, and he would get it. Avatarland? Doubtful.

They'd be better off doing Beastly Kingdom and finding a way to incorporate Avatar there somehow.

 

[MJMcBride]

I personally think that Disney has enough of it's own franchises to base new parks areas, and attractions on. I do agree with the pro comments about Up, Narnia, more Star Wars( now that they own the rights) etc. On the other hand, I do understand the financial implications of not competing with Universal. If there is a desire to have a "beastly kingdom" area in Animal Kingdom, and there is a need to compete with Universal's Harry Potter land, I'm wondering if Disney has looked at a partnership with Peter Jackson for Tolkein's Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. Nothing could better match theme of a " beastly kingdom. Dragons, Orks, Trolls, this land could have it all.

If Narnia had been more popular that woukd have worked very well

 

[krichie]

The problem with Beastly Kingdom is it doesn't have that magic "S": Synergy

It seems clear that Disney was hoping Avatar would bring in "new business"...customers who aren't part of the traditional WDW audience but would take notice of Avatar and/or James Cameron.

That's what Universal got from Harry Potter. The Mummy, The Simpsons, Men in Black, Dr Seuss, Shrek, Spider-Man and many more properties were not enough to get certain people into their parks, but WWoHP was the proverbial tipping point. Millions of new customers responded by opening their wallets.

Beastly Kingdom may have turned out to be a fantastic addition but without any sort of name recognition, it's probably not enough to draw in millions of first-time guests who wouldn't otherwise visit WDW. That's the end result of the economically competitive / social media / smartphone / short attention span society we live in today. Sometimes just being "good" (excellent, superior) isn't good enough.

Personally I've never even watched Avatar. But I was in favor of that project because (IMO) the potential upside warrants a significant investment on Disney's part and Cameron's involvement would all but guarantee high quality. If it's good entertainment, the theme becomes secondary. Even non-fans could still enjoy the experience. Don't think I have ever seen "Song of the South" or "Ichabod and Mr Toad" but Splash Mountain and Mr. Toad's Wild Ride are still worthwhile.

Now if the rumors are to be believed, Disney may be hoping a carbon copy Cars Land provides the synergy and attendance bump they are seeking. Yay....more ride clones.

Kudos to reaching a different audience. Personally, I love Disney rides. I was introduced to Disneyland when I was six, and from that time until about 1 year ago, the only movies I saw that had corresponding rides in the park were Peter Pan and Roger Rabbit. I still loved and continue to love all the other rides. I'm planning my first trip to Disneyworld, so I am catching up on all Disney movies via Netflix, which I think may enhance my appreciation for the MK.

In regards to Orlando Studios, I completely agree, and I am one of those that would only go to OS to see Harry Potter land.

Now, Avatarland? I LOVE the movie, and definitely agree that it will appeal to those who aren't traditional Disney lovers. I really hope they come up with something that will appeal to everyone (and I'm sure they will.)