Purchasing HHI?

[ssawka]

We just got back from HHI and we really loved the resort and were thinking about purchasing a small contract, but I just can't seem to make the numbers work for us. The drive was a bit long (about 8.5 hours) so realistically we would only be looking at going every other year. We would like to have a 1 BR so that we could cook. We would only go in the summer, so a 1 BR would be 259 points (currently). That would mean we would need a contract of about 130 points (if we could find one). Assuming $50 PP, that would be a buy-in of $7300 (assuming $400 closing costs). The current MFs are $5.67 PP. Assuming a 3% increase per year (although it was higher than that this year) the total MFs over the next 30 years (the remaining life of HHI) would be $44667. That's a total cost of $51967 over the life of the contract. With 15 visits (every other year) that equates to about $3500 per week. We can rent huge houses at beaches closer for much less than that. Am I missing something?

 

[silv3rglat3]

If you are building in the 3% future costs you should also discount the cost of inflation and rental increases at the mentioned beach houses. Keep the same value of points costs instead of increasing at 3% a year or increase the current cost of renting a beach house by the same inflation rate. You also have to build on the value of a Disney property and knowing exactly what you will get each time.

 

[ssawka]

If you are building in the 3% future costs you should also discount the cost of inflation and rental increases at the mentioned beach houses. Keep the same value of points costs instead of increasing at 3% a year or increase the current cost of renting a beach house by the same inflation rate. You also have to build on the value of a Disney property and knowing exactly what you will get each time.

That's a good point, although I'm not sure that inflation plays as much of a role as if you were comparing DVC to hotel rates. These homes are being rented by their owners. I'm not sure they would consciously raising prices every year. Just look at how slowly the DVC rental points have edged up.

You are also correct that you are getting the Disney experience. That's why I asked, I need to justify in my mind if it is worth paying that premium. It was much easier to justify our BLT purchase since I was comparing Disney prices to Disney prices. (off-site was not an option for us)

 

[chalee94]

offsite (non-wdw), i would look at non-DVC options.

i like offseason at hilton head, so i have traded my non-DVC timeshare into marriott's grande ocean and surfwatch resorts during the fall. unlike the DVC resort, both marriotts are right on the ocean.

for summer in hilton head, you'd probably need to own there. not sure if marriott hilton head resorts have an "every-other-year" option or not, but i would recommend going over to TUG and looking into those kind of possibilities.

(edited to add: renting is also a good option.)

 

[missycj96]

We stayed at hhi this summer and will be looking for an add on for the 11 month summer window. Even if someplace else is less expensive, I loved the combination of a beach and "real world" vacation combined with the Disney brand of service and entertainment for me and my little kids. So it depends what you are looking for - I want the disney activities for my kids and a DVC add on is an easy way to have that without a high hotel bill on a vacation - it worked for me. Plus, I could always use the points for larger units at WDW. Hhi resales are a good value if you want to vacation at hhi in the summer.

 

[ELMC]

We just got back from HHI and we really loved the resort and were thinking about purchasing a small contract, but I just can't seem to make the numbers work for us. The drive was a bit long (about 8.5 hours) so realistically we would only be looking at going every other year. We would like to have a 1 BR so that we could cook. We would only go in the summer, so a 1 BR would be 259 points (currently). That would mean we would need a contract of about 130 points (if we could find one). Assuming $50 PP, that would be a buy-in of $7300 (assuming $400 closing costs). The current MFs are $5.67 PP. Assuming a 3% increase per year (although it was higher than that this year) the total MFs over the next 30 years (the remaining life of HHI) would be $44667. That's a total cost of $51967 over the life of the contract. With 15 visits (every other year) that equates to about $3500 per week. We can rent huge houses at beaches closer for much less than that. Am I missing something?

This is a great question that you are asking. I could be mistaken, but your numbers are a bit off. By my calculations your maintenance fees would be $35,067 over the next 30 years (using the same 3% increase assumption. Add to that your purchase price of $6,900 would give you a total cost over 30 years of $41,967. Over 15 trips your cost would be $2,798 per trip. If you compare that to comparable offsite options, you may find that it is more expensive. In that case, the answer seems pretty clear. It's easier to justify the added expense when booking on property at WDW because the off site options don't offer a lot of the benefits of staying on site. I'm not sure the same can be said for HHI but given that there aren't any major theme parks in the area, I doubt it.

 

[CarolMN]

Have you looked into renting instead of owning? It might cost a bit more over the life of the contract, but you would only be making a commitment to one trip at a time. No worries if you skip a trip and no annual dues to pay every year.

Of course you would not have control of the reservation, but there are several reputable members out there who would be happy to rent you points at 11 months.

Good luck!

 

[tjkraz]

That's a good point, although I'm not sure that inflation plays as much of a role as if you were comparing DVC to hotel rates. These homes are being rented by their owners. I'm not sure they would consciously raising prices every year. Just look at how slowly the DVC rental points have edged up.

I'm not sure that's a valid comparison.

Professional home renters will be much more in tune with the marketplace. They will directly feel the impact of changes in property tax rates, utility rates, insurance rates, upkeep, etc.

DVC point renting is mostly an amateur's game. Market prices are set by hundreds of Average Joes who just want a quick, painless transaction regardless of the profit margins.

I would suggest converting things to current year dollars. If you're going to get 15 trips out of the purchase, take 1/15 of the purchase price and add two years worth of dues at the current rate. Looks like that's about $2000 per trip in 2012 dollars. IMO, that's a much more sound approach rather than mixing in the heavily inflated dues rates from the '20s, '30s and '40s.

 

[ssawka]

Thank you to all who replied. After thinking it over some more, it seems like I have more questions than answers. I was wondering if any of you have any thoughts on at what point the price of HHI (or any of the other 2042 resorts) will begin to plummet? Currently each of these resorts have 30 years remaining. What do you think the resale price will be in 10, 15, 20 years? If we buy, we probably would not try to sell, however I do think the expected resale value does play a part in the decision.

 

[tjkraz]

What we should see is a gradual decline in value which is roughly equivalent to the number of years exhausted. In other words, when 25% of the remaining years are gone, it should be selling for about 25% less than today.

But any number of unforeseeable factors could impact that trend. Changes in the economy...spike in annual dues...problems on the island or its beaches, etc.

With a starting price of around $50, it's a fairly low risk prospect. But there's really no way to accurately predict market prices in another 10 or 20 years.

 

[maburke]

Bear in mind when comparing options that not only is a summer reservation hard to get at HHI, but that 1BRs are particularly tough -- most of the resort is dedicated 2BRs.

 

[ercrbc]

We just passed ROFR on a HHI contract and are thrilled to be new owners there. We had a fantastic trip in April and came home knowing we want to be able to vacation there every Summer. We did a lot of research on other options at HHI, we didn't care much about beach front. I found other 1-2BR villas and condos to compare costs of weekly rental, timeshare ownership, resort amenities, ect. We found that paying less than $50/pt for the DVC was a better deal in almost every comparison (even with MFs). The fact I can also use the pts to supplement our WDW trips is a huge bonus.

I'm not looking at the resale value so much, we are buying with intentions to keep and use the next 30 yrs of pts. However, if somewhere down the line that changes I feel confident that we will be able to recoup some $ for the contract, and the original investment will have more than been paid for in trips at that point.

Good luck hunting down contracts! I hope you find the perfect HHI option for your family!

 

[ssawka]

We just passed ROFR on a HHI contract and are thrilled to be new owners there. We had a fantastic trip in April and came home knowing we want to be able to vacation there every Summer. We did a lot of research on other options at HHI, we didn't care much about beach front. I found other 1-2BR villas and condos to compare costs of weekly rental, timeshare ownership, resort amenities, ect. We found that paying less than $50/pt for the DVC was a better deal in almost every comparison (even with MFs). The fact I can also use the pts to supplement our WDW trips is a huge bonus.

I'm not looking at the resale value so much, we are buying with intentions to keep and use the next 30 yrs of pts. However, if somewhere down the line that changes I feel confident that we will be able to recoup some $ for the contract, and the original investment will have more than been paid for in trips at that point.

Good luck hunting down contracts! I hope you find the perfect HHI option for your family!

Thank you! I am also concerned about finding a contract. It seems like the inventory of resale contracts has dried up recently. TSS only has 3 listed on their website. I know I need to contact them and get on the mailing list, but there use to be quite a few more contracts on their site. Maybe it has to do with the time of year and people buying contracts to use next summer.

 

[kristenrice]

Thank you! I am also concerned about finding a contract. It seems like the inventory of resale contracts has dried up recently. TSS only has 3 listed on their website. I know I need to contact them and get on the mailing list, but there use to be quite a few more contracts on their site. Maybe it has to do with the time of year and people buying contracts to use next summer.

That was the problem we ran into when we decided that we wanted to buy an add-on at HHI. Our kids are still quite young (7 and 9) so they are still big WDW fans. We have 100 points at AKL that we use to go 2 out of 3 years to WDW so we decided to look for 50 points at HHI to use during our "off" year. After several months of waiting for a small resale with a Feb UY, I finally gave up and bought direct ofr $80/pt. Assuming I could have found a contract for $55/pt, I would have saved about $750 by waiting for a resale. It was not worth the effort. We bought the contract in January 2011 and I still haven't seen an available resale for 50 points with a Feb UY. They always show as "pending".

Good luck on your quest! HHI seems to be getting more and more popular.

 

[staceymay00]

I don't think you can rent a big house on the beach for less than DVC, at least not at some of the well known resorts like Sea Pines and Palmetto Dunes...those seem to run thousands a week ($5000+, some over $10,000/week) during the peak summer months. I do think you can get the same space as a DVC 2BR villa for less than DVC. I didn't spend a lot of time running numbers, but decided I'd rather get a VRBO rental at HHI than buy DVC points there. We stayed at the DVC resort there once for a few nights and liked it, but for whatever reason it was not enough to make me pay a premium to stay there like we are willing to do in owning DVC at WDW. If I recall, what we paid last summer for a 2BR townhouse in Palmetto Dunes that was a quick 4-5 minute walk from the beach was less than MFs would cost us if we had enough points for a week in a 2BR villa every summer. Another bonus is that our beach access was in an area with mostly homes rather than hotels and mid-rise condos, so that part of the beach was not as crowded as the area near the Disney Beach House.

 

[Dean]

Personally I'd look at non DVC options if your goal was to go to HH every other year for summer, IMO, DVC is over priced for summer at HH. One can find some every other or every third year options for the area though often you can buy an every year for around the same price and for the same closing. Marriott's not a good choice in general because they don't have smaller units or lockoff's but if the DVC location appeals to you, you might be able to pick up a Harbour or Sunset Pointe or even Monarch or Harbour Club unit reasonably. Or even a Grande Ocean Gold if you can go early June. One might look at Spinnaker or Coral resale or similar or even a fixed week at Spicebush or Swallowtail.

In general I'm a big fan of other mini systems (points) when DVC members branch out but there are no good options for HH along these lines that I am aware of. The one BG resort is not up to par.

 

[ssawka]

I don't think you can rent a big house on the beach for less than DVC, at least not at some of the well known resorts like Sea Pines and Palmetto Dunes...those seem to run thousands a week ($5000+, some over $10,000/week) during the peak summer months. I do think you can get the same space as a DVC 2BR villa for less than DVC. I didn't spend a lot of time running numbers, but decided I'd rather get a VRBO rental at HHI than buy DVC points there. We stayed at the DVC resort there once for a few nights and liked it, but for whatever reason it was not enough to make me pay a premium to stay there like we are willing to do in owning DVC at WDW. If I recall, what we paid last summer for a 2BR townhouse in Palmetto Dunes that was a quick 4-5 minute walk from the beach was less than MFs would cost us if we had enough points for a week in a 2BR villa every summer. Another bonus is that our beach access was in an area with mostly homes rather than hotels and mid-rise condos, so that part of the beach was not as crowded as the area near the Disney Beach House.

Personally I'd look at non DVC options if your goal was to go to HH every other year for summer, IMO, DVC is over priced for summer at HH. One can find some every other or every third year options for the area though often you can buy an every year for around the same price and for the same closing. Marriott's not a good choice in general because they don't have smaller units or lockoff's but if the DVC location appeals to you, you might be able to pick up a Harbour or Sunset Pointe or even Monarch or Harbour Club unit reasonably. Or even a Grande Ocean Gold if you can go early June. One might look at Spinnaker or Coral resale or similar or even a fixed week at Spicebush or Swallowtail.

In general I'm a big fan of other mini systems (points) when DVC members branch out but there are no good options for HH along these lines that I am aware of. The one BG resort is not up to par.

Thank you both, but I really am not committed to HHI unless it is for DVC. We really enjoyed the island, but there would need to be more than just the beach to justify an 8.5 hour drive. Disney offers a bit more, but it is expensive.

By a cheaper for a house rental, I was referring to beaches much closer to home. For example, we could rent a small house on the Outer Banks for the same amount or less than DVC. That option offers some advantages (bigger house, closer to the beach, etc.), but it also has disadvantages (will the house have a pool?, no water slide, no other families to meet, not many restaurants, no activities, etc.) As you can tell, I have mixed feelings on whether to buy at HHI or not?

Pros: Great resort, lots of activities, pool at the beach, pool with a great water slide, other families to meet.

Cons: Price and distance

 

[ELMC]

As you can tell, I have mixed feelings on whether to buy at HHI or not?

Pros: Great resort, lots of activities, pool at the beach, pool with a great water slide, other families to meet.

Cons: Price and distance

To me, the answer seems that you should rent points for stays at HHI. You get all of the pros without having to make an ongoing financial commitment. Plus, when you get tired of driving there, you can simply stop going. Think about how unpleasant it would be 12 years from now as you're gearing up for ANOTHER 8.5 hour drive that you dread simply because you bought HHI and have to go there.

 

[Dean]

Thank you both, but I really am not committed to HHI unless it is for DVC. We really enjoyed the island, but there would need to be more than just the beach to justify an 8.5 hour drive. Disney offers a bit more, but it is expensive.

By a cheaper for a house rental, I was referring to beaches much closer to home. For example, we could rent a small house on the Outer Banks for the same amount or less than DVC. That option offers some advantages (bigger house, closer to the beach, etc.), but it also has disadvantages (will the house have a pool?, no water slide, no other families to meet, not many restaurants, no activities, etc.) As you can tell, I have mixed feelings on whether to buy at HHI or not?

Pros: Great resort, lots of activities, pool at the beach, pool with a great water slide, other families to meet.

Cons: Price and distance

I would question the idea that DVC offers more than other comparable timeshares for HHI. That's true for some but not for others and IMO, some offer a lot more. There are some with a far more elaborate pool setup than DVC has and many offer a lot more activities. Then there's always the fact that some are on the beach or easy walking distance. Of course there are other variables like price. As I noted, some of the Marriott's, esp the Marriott's Grande Ocean Gold season can be a great option for those so inclined that can travel early to mid June.