Disney, Adoption and The Avengers...

[Lintasare]

My evil anthropomorphic horse is offended by that.

But...but...but...

 

[CurlyJo224]

But what about the GOOD anthropomorphic horses? Does this mean we'll never see Beta Ray Bill in a movie? Say it ain't so!

 

[Olawles]

This is a very good example of how parents and people in general get so upset over the smallest thing. As someone who was adopted from birth, I don't find this quote offensive at all, in fact I laughed raucously at it. My parents made sure to explain adoption to me as soon as they felt I was able to understand the concept. For me, that was around age 3 or 4, and I grew up knowing that I was adopted, and I didn't feel any less important than a biological son.

I almost laughed, too; the line is well played. But the laughter stuck in my throat when all of the joke's implications crashed down on me. My daughter never got for a second that it was supposed to be a joke.

"Are people laughing because they think adopted kids are bad? Am I bad?"

There is no mention of how old the daughter is in this quote, however it doesn't seem like adoption was explained very clearly to her. It also sounds like (from the daughter's actual question) that she is very young. The movie is PG-13 (which stands for Parental Guidance under the age of 13, by the way) and I've read other posts stating that if one were to watch the movie Thor, it explains his background, and the adoption comment makes more sense. If you are unable to provide "parental guidance" to your under-13 child, then you can not possibly be upset with the movie. To get upset over this single line in the movie when it's clearly been taken somewhat out of context and heard by someone who may be too young to grasp the essence of the joke is ridiculous.

That's another point...not everyone thinks every joke is funny. But that's why they're funny, because it's something unexpected, and in some cases, offensive to whatever degree. Just because you don't think the joke is funny doesn't give you the right to alter the movie itself just to make you happy.

I understand why people would get upset over this quote, however in today's world everyone needs something to be upset at, and in some cases, something to fight just for the sake of fighting. This is a perfect example. People are too used to getting exactly what they want. It's become a part of this first-world life we enjoy. People forget that just 20 years ago, life was very different. You couldn't always get what you wanted because it simply wasn't possible, and people got used to it and dealt with it. Now, almost anything is possible, and people now are so accustomed to getting what they want, how they want it, and when they want it, that they'll fight anything or anyone that defies them.

To start a petition to change a line in a movie because it mentions adoption is ludicrous. As I mentioned, I'm adopted and I have no problem with the line at all. I think it's hilarious, even when taken out of context, because it's such a stupid reason for anything bad to exist in someone. If your child can't understand that, then it's all on you for not explaining it to them. Don't blame a movie for your own shortcomings.

EDIT: Another point I forgot to include is that Thor is obviously joking about it. If he were to sincerely suggest that Loki being adopted is the cause for his evil nature, then it would be a different story. HOWEVER, this is not the case.

 

[Metsfan520]

All together now...."this is the thread that will not end....."

 

[Jennasis]

I dunno about anthropomorphic horses, but I certainly talk to my horses as if they're people.

 

[skater]

This is a very good example of how parents and people in general get so upset over the smallest thing. As someone who was adopted from birth, I don't find this quote offensive at all, in fact I laughed raucously at it. My parents made sure to explain adoption to me as soon as they felt I was able to understand the concept. For me, that was around age 3 or 4, and I grew up knowing that I was adopted, and I didn't feel any less important than a biological son.



There is no mention of how old the daughter is in this quote, however it doesn't seem like adoption was explained very clearly to her. It also sounds like (from the daughter's actual question) that she is very young. The movie is PG-13 (which stands for Parental Guidance under the age of 13, by the way) and I've read other posts stating that if one were to watch the movie Thor, it explains his background, and the adoption comment makes more sense. If you are unable to provide "parental guidance" to your under-13 child, then you can not possibly be upset with the movie. To get upset over this single line in the movie when it's clearly been taken somewhat out of context and heard by someone who may be too young to grasp the essence of the joke is ridiculous.

That's another point...not everyone thinks every joke is funny. But that's why they're funny, because it's something unexpected, and in some cases, offensive to whatever degree. Just because you don't think the joke is funny doesn't give you the right to alter the movie itself just to make you happy.

I understand why people would get upset over this quote, however in today's world everyone needs something to be upset at, and in some cases, something to fight just for the sake of fighting. This is a perfect example. People are too used to getting exactly what they want. It's become a part of this first-world life we enjoy. People forget that just 20 years ago, life was very different. You couldn't always get what you wanted because it simply wasn't possible, and people got used to it and dealt with it. Now, almost anything is possible, and people now are so accustomed to getting what they want, how they want it, and when they want it, that they'll fight anything or anyone that defies them.

To start a petition to change a line in a movie because it mentions adoption is ludicrous. As I mentioned, I'm adopted and I have no problem with the line at all. I think it's hilarious, even when taken out of context, because it's such a stupid reason for anything bad to exist in someone. If your child can't understand that, then it's all on you for not explaining it to them. Don't blame a movie for your own shortcomings.

EDIT: Another point I forgot to include is that Thor is obviously joking about it. If he were to sincerely suggest that Loki being adopted is the cause for his evil nature, then it would be a different story. HOWEVER, this is not the case.

Respectfully, I think you're over generalizing. I don't feel like going over why, but you can go back and read some of my previous posts for some clues. Everybody's different - shortcomings might have nothing to do with it .

I've seen the movie twice and while I didn't feel it was that bad the first time (in a almost empty theater), the second time we saw it, everybody laughed at the line and it bothered me more for some reason .

 

[JenM]

All together now...."this is the thread that will not end....."

And now it's famous. An article about the "controversy" links to this thread:

http://www.webpronews.com/the-avengers-apparently-waged-a-war-on-adopted-kids-2012-05

 

[Lintasare]

And now it's famous. An article about the "controversy" links to this thread:

http://www.webpronews.com/the-avengers-apparently-waged-a-war-on-adopted-kids-2012-05

Uh oh...looks like we may get some new posters. Now lets make them feel welcome.

I will bake cookies, can someone mix up some drinks?

 

[bunkkinsmom]

I'll make the taco dip!

 

[JenM]

Anthropomorphic pony rides for everyone!

 

[Lintasare]

Anthropomorphic pony rides for everyone!

But are they good or evil anthropomorphic ponies?

 

[EricQelDroma]

It was a line by a character. The directory didn't come on screen and say "I think anyone that is adopted is bad." Thor (the character) says the line in reference to 1 adopted kid - Loki. Why does everything think it's a blanket statement about all adoptees? If every line in every movie regarding every situation was all "happy, happy, joy, joy, sensitive flowers and rainbows", the movies would be pretty boring.

"Thor (the character)" is the only one that can lift his hammer (except for Odin and [probably, as it happens in the comics] Captain America) because he's just THAT GOOD. (You have to be worthy to lift the hammer. See Hulk's trouble in the movie.) Having Thor say that line is WAY different than having, say, Tony Stark say that line.

Why is no one upset that the director put a mass murder in the movie? I think that murdering 80 people is way more offensive than stating that someone is adopted.

Can you remind me where murdering 80 people is made into a joke by a genuinely good person? Mass murder jokes in the movie at all? Anyone? Oh, so it's not the same thing. Got it.

 

[EricQelDroma]

I disagree. Not with your synopsis, but with your conclusion. The back story may have little to do with adoption and be more about inherited traits, but the JOKE was completely about adoption.

The crowd laughed because of the word...ADOPTED. It got a big laugh because most people, IMHO, are not even aware that they are guilty of buying into the stereotypes and prejudices regarding adoption and adoptees. These so pervade our culture that we take them as a given. And we should not.

(Edited by Eric just to avoid taking up too much space with a complete repost)

EMom, thanks for your insightful posts. You're so right.

 

[EricQelDroma]

Joss Whedon also makes fun of or in some way dislikes cheerleaders, vampires, sociopathic adolescent boys that wear black and blow up Combat Carl figures, evil anthropomorphic horses, hussies, jocks, nerds, fools, and virgins.

Several of the groups you mention are completely fictitious. A couple of others are based on personal choices. (You want to make fun of teachers? Comic book collectors? Please do. I choose to be those things.)

Being adopted isn't a choice. It's like being any other minority. Making fun of a whole class of people because of what they ARE as opposed to what they DO isn't cool.

And as for Joss himself, he's unwisely invoked a few negative stereotypes in the past, such as angry lesbian Willow in Buffy Season Six. While I didn't personally react to his use of that old canard, I understood why some people did, and I didn't feel the need to denigrate them for feeling that Joss had been insensitive.

 

[disneyshakeygirl]

I took my son to see The Avengers on Saturday. In one key scene, as the Avengers are assembled they review the evil committed by Loki. Thor confronts the rest of the Avengers because Loki is his brother. When the Avengers list the atrocities he has committed, Thor volunteers that “Loki was adopted”. It got quite a laugh from the audience, yet it implies that an adopted sibling is less family than biological children.

Children don’t need to be told they are inferior or defective or less of a family member because they were adopted, especially from someone as trusted as the Walt Disney Company. There are 73.8 million children who are a part of families created through adoption. It’s odd that Disney would choose to send a message that adopted children are less part of a family than biological children, but in my opinion, that’s exactly what happens in The Avengers.

The movie was excellent and I don’t regret taking my son to see it. I just thought we had moved beyond these stereotypes about adoption.

This is my point of view as the father of adopted children.

Did this scene bother anyone else?

This didn't bother me at all, and I've got adoption ALL over my family. I know it's a sensitive issue, but I think the scene was just for a laugh.

My cousins were both adopted, and went to see this movie. They said they laughed at that particular scene, they found it hilarious and they've gone through everything negative that could come associated with adoption.

 

[EricQelDroma]

There is no mention of how old the daughter is in this quote, however it doesn't seem like adoption was explained very clearly to her. It also sounds like (from the daughter's actual question) that she is very young. The movie is PG-13 (which stands for Parental Guidance under the age of 13, by the way) and I've read other posts stating that if one were to watch the movie Thor, it explains his background, and the adoption comment makes more sense. If you are unable to provide "parental guidance" to your under-13 child, then you can not possibly be upset with the movie. To get upset over this single line in the movie when it's clearly been taken somewhat out of context and heard by someone who may be too young to grasp the essence of the joke is ridiculous.

Yessss. You know so much about how my daughter's been raised. Thanks for your input. What's most amusing to me is that my daughter actually GOT the joke--she's just savvy enough to understand that it's not funny.

All of that said, try reading the rest of the thread. I've made no secret of my family's situation, and I've addressed the rating issue. The joke wouldn't be funny in any movie.

That's another point...not everyone thinks every joke is funny. But that's why they're funny, because it's something unexpected, and in some cases, offensive to whatever degree. Just because you don't think the joke is funny doesn't give you the right to alter the movie itself just to make you happy.

Oh, okay. So I can use all sorts of offensive racial epithets and stereotypes now and not be widely condemed for them? I just get to say, "Oh, sorry [insert minority class here]! You shouldn't be upset! It's funny to me!"

I understand why people would get upset over this quote, however in today's world everyone needs something to be upset at, and in some cases, something to fight just for the sake of fighting. This is a perfect example. People are too used to getting exactly what they want. It's become a part of this first-world life we enjoy. People forget that just 20 years ago, life was very different. You couldn't always get what you wanted because it simply wasn't possible, and people got used to it and dealt with it. Now, almost anything is possible, and people now are so accustomed to getting what they want, how they want it, and when they want it, that they'll fight anything or anyone that defies them.

Come on. Twenty years ago was post-Clarence Thomas. Little to nothing has changed in that time in terms of jokes, humor, and "getting what you want."

And if you can understand why people would get upset, why are you bashing those of us who have gotten upset?

EDIT: Another point I forgot to include is that Thor is obviously joking about it. If he were to sincerely suggest that Loki being adopted is the cause for his evil nature, then it would be a different story. HOWEVER, this is not the case.

Ah, yes. Thor, who has spent two whole movies vigorously arguing that Loki is a "real" part of his family. (As he should, BTW.) Thor now makes a joke about Loki being adopted. It's kind of like Gandhi making a joke about "Well, he's only an Indian" at the end of his movie, right? Same thing, I guess.

 

[JenM]

"Thor (the character)" is the only one that can lift his hammer (except for Odin and [probably, as it happens in the comics] Captain America) because he's just THAT GOOD. (You have to be worthy to lift the hammer. See Hulk's trouble in the movie.) Having Thor say that line is WAY different than having, say, Tony Stark say that line.

Especially since Tony Stark isn't Loki's brother. Having him say it just would have been weird.

Thor actually loses the ability to wield the hammer in his solo movie because of his arrogance and warmongering. He spent an entire movie having to learn about humility and respect and the consequences of his actions before he's finally deemed worthy of the hammer again.

Loki learns that he's one of the Frost Giants, but that's always been loved as no less than a son and brother, and he tosses it away. He had his chances to earn the hammer himself. He didn't earn it - because he turned into a genocidal maniac.

In Thor and Loki's first scene in Avengers, Thor starts the conversation with "our father..." which Loki immediately corrects by saying "No, your father..."

And then Thor immediately pointed up how they were always brothers, that they had grown up together, played together, fought wars together...but Loki wanted none of it.

Can you remind me where murdering 80 people is made into a joke by a genuinely good person? Mass murder jokes in the movie at all? Anyone? Oh, so it's not the same thing. Got it.

Did you see anyone laughing in that scene? Because they weren't.

 

[JenM]

But are they good or evil anthropomorphic ponies?

Depends on how good the drinks and taco dip are.

 

[EricQelDroma]

Did you see anyone laughing in that scene? Because they weren't.

Let's be fair, though. Most of the laugh-out-loud stuff in that movie doesn't garner diegetic laughter. You're correct: the characters didn't laugh. Unfortunately, the joke was intended for the audience and not the characters.

 

[Hokes]

I don't expect you or anyone else to be offended by the line. What I would HOPE is that they could open their hearts and minds enough to empathize with adopted children and realize that such a line might well offend/hurt adopted children. It boggles my mind that it is beyond anyone's comprehension how this might (likely would) negatively impact adopted children, especially given the posts from adoptees and adoptive parents explaining that fact in clear detail.

A Rebel flag does not offend me in the least, but I can grasp how it might offend Blacks. A fraternity "slave auction" might strike one person as merely tasteless, but might cause much stronger emotions in someone whose ancestors had been slaves.

Of course, the "target" of the act/line/joke will be more offended than a person who is not the target. I don't have to be offended to wrap my head around the fact that some things....especially those that would seriously hurt CHILDREN......might need to be reconsidered as joke material.

But if you believe if was a fine thing to do and totally worth the joke, even if if was a slap in the face to a lot of kids who will see the movie and walk out hurt, hey.......We're just going to disagree.

1. Stop comparing the imagined persecution of the adopted with the undeniable horror experience by people of colour. It makes you either a complete lunatic or someone who completely devalues the hardships endured by centuries of racism. Other than bigots trying to prevent same sex adoptive families, you're not being persecuted and you never really have been.

2. You and your supporters have zero understanding of comic book mythology if you are seriously offended that comic books and their adaptations aren't doing justice to adoptive families. because you have to be a complete idiot to not see the numerous examples of beautiful adoption stories in comic books and the strength of character and sense of justice it builds in superheroes.

Clark Kent (Superman) - adopted by the Kent family
Bruce Wayne (Batman) - adopted (in a sense) by Alfred Pennyworth
Dick Grayson and Jason Todd (first and second Robin; eventually Nightwing and Red Hood, respectively) - adopted by Bruce Wayne
Peter Parker (Spiderman) - adopted by Ben and May Parker
Loki - adoptive brother to Thor Odinson, adopted by Odin Allfather

Jason Todd excluded, Loki is the only major 'adoption gone wrong' story i can think of off the top of my head. And to be honest i still find it a beautiful and inspiring adoption story because in the mythology Thor never gives up on his brother and is constantly trying to redeem him. Thor loves Loki unconditionally and the pain he must endure seeing his brother betray the ideals of their family is the single greatest conflict of that franchise.

Thor's quip only shows him trying to deal with the pain tearing him apart and makes it clear that he can't even begin to piece together the source of his brother's betrayal, so he is forced to mask his pain with uncomfortable comedy. i would imagine those feelings to a lesser extent are present in most sibling rivalries.

Comic books are the single greatest source of positive adoption stories in contemporary media. You all need to grow up.