Disney, Adoption and The Avengers...

[skater]

So now people who disagree with you are clueless?




(see..I Can take a line out of context too and get all upset about it and make it mean what I want to make it mean to meet my personal feelings on a subject too)

I did not do the same thing, but whatever. Its okay with me if you want to believe that. I like to discuss things and I like to share pov's. I don't mind people feeling different things than me and having different opinions. Its some of the ways that it has been expressed here that bugs me. And yes, I personally believe that there has been a little cluelessness here today. In and out of context .

 

[design_mom]

If you don't like my earlier comparisons how about all the evil step mom references in movies and Tv? Is anyone crying about adoption jokes also up in arms about those as well?

I think "evil stepmother" is a pretty analogous comparison. Quite frankly, I do think those references are unfortunate for families who are trying to blend families. Not all step mothers are evil. In fact, there are very few who are... but it's a very common storytelling device (adoption is, too.)

I would guess that the barrage of "evil stepmother" references make the loving stepmothers sigh. They know it's not "about them" but it certainly doesn't make their lives any easier. That's how I feel about the adoption reference -- not something to get into a big huff about, but my family sure could do without it. (We don't have any stepmothers in our family -- evil or otherwise -- but we do have some adoptees, so the adoption references hit closer to home for us.)

And the more I think about it -- as a result of this thread, because I initially didn't give it much thought besides "ugh. Did they have to go there?" -- I'm really not sure it was really "in character" for Thor to say that. He had been so staunchly in the support your family/hate the actions, but love your brother camp until that point (and after), that I don't think saying "he's not really my brother" (which is what the line conveyed) was in character.

 

[billdob62]

I think your fears are ungrounded in regard to what was said in the movie. Adopted children are loved as much as other children by their parents. After all...they were chosen.

 

[Jennasis]

But if one of my adopted kids did bad things, my biological child wouldn't think to first say, "He's adopted."

Now, as I've said lots of times to no avail, I'm not super offended. Its just something that's worth noting and discussing with my kids. They did have feelings about it. Not offended, just some complicated feelings. Not a huge deal (I keep saying that, but no one's listening).

I am way more offended by opinions that indicate we should not have conflicted feelings or even possibly be offended. I know that people here will deny that this has been stated, but in so many words, I believe it has been.

I'm not "picking" on you Jenassis - I just used your post to illustrate the reality in my family with biological and adopted children.

No prob...I know you're not picking on me (and vice versa). The thing is, I totally believe a frustrated brother would say something stupid about his brother at that moment. I've done it...in fact I accidentally did it TO my sister by inadvertently texting a gripe I had about her TO her instead of to the cousin I was complaining to. I felt like an idiot and a heel afterwards, but in that moment of hot frustration, I said some things I wasn't proud of.

I found it to be very believable that Thor would lash out even in jest at his brother who had been dogging him despite his best efforts to love him. But that's just me. People are not perfect...apparently the fictitious demi-god isn't perfect, which made him much more realistic to me. I like my heroes flawed and human.

I did not do the same thing, but whatever. Its okay with me if you want to believe that. I like to discuss things and I like to share pov's. I don't mind people feeling different things than me and having different opinions. Its some of the ways that it has been expressed here that bugs me. And yes, I personally believe that there has been a little cluelessness here today. In and out of context .

You know I didn't REALLY feel that way ...just tryin' to keep it real.


You know what IS amazing? That despite this controversy (minor or major from whomever's perspective) everyone seems to still agree that the movie WAS indeed good.

 

[Scurvy]

And the more I think about it -- as a result of this thread, because I initially didn't give it much thought besides "ugh. Did they have to go there?" -- I'm really not sure it was really "in character" for Thor to say that. He had been so staunchly in the support your family/hate the actions, but love your brother camp until that point (and after), that I don't think saying "he's not really my brother" (which is what the line conveyed) was in character.

I don't know that it was all that out of character. He spent the better part of two movies trying to convince Loki that they are brothers, and that nothing has changed just because they've discovered his origins are different than they thought. Loki has tried to kill him and has tried to destroy everything that Thor cares about and yet it is still obvious that the only one who cares about the adoption at all is Loki. I don't think it's that out of character for Thor to make a comment like that in the context of the scene, especially since Loki himself has made it clear that his origins are his excuse for the things he has done. Plus, that type of comment fits in perfectly with the rest of the comments in the movie. As another poster mentioned, it is completely Whedon's style to use that kind of dialogue and humor. I think it's obvious to most people who watch the movies that the line isn't serious and doesn't reflect Thor's true feelings about Loki.

 

[DizBelle]

I'm thinking that kids (adopted and otherwise) won't be offended by the line unless they are taught that they should be offended by the line.

 

[EMom]

Sometimes ignorance isn't bliss. Sometimes, ignorance is just ignorance. Willful ignorance is in a class by itself.

 

[SaraJayne]

I'm thinking that kids (adopted and otherwise) won't be offended by the line unless they are taught that they should be offended by the line.

Bingo.

 

[EMom]

I'm thinking that kids (adopted and otherwise) won't be offended by the line unless they are taught that they should be offended by the line.

Then you need to think some more. Seriously.

 

[skater]

You know what IS amazing? That despite this controversy (minor or major from whomever's perspective) everyone seems to still agree that the movie WAS indeed good.

I can't wait to see it. Trying to find a time for all of us to go at the same time is the hold-up. We may have to see it separately .

 

[skater]

I'm thinking that kids (adopted and otherwise) won't be offended by the line unless they are taught that they should be offended by the line.

Not even remotely true.

 

[Jennasis]

I can't wait to see it. Trying to find a time for all of us to go at the same time is the hold-up. We may have to see it separately .

You haven't seen it yet????????

OMG you gotta go! I'm so sorry if there were spoilers in the thread...don't read anymore until you see it.

 

[skater]

You haven't seen it yet????????

OMG you gotta go! I'm so sorry if there were spoilers in the thread...don't read anymore until you see it.

Thanks! No problem - I don't mind a few spoilers. I can't wait - I loved the Loki character in Thor - though I'm not sure I'll like him so much in this one .

 

[Jennasis]

Thanks! No problem - I don't mind a few spoilers. I can't wait - I loved the Loki character in Thor - though I'm not sure I'll like him so much in this one .

I had a bit of a crush on Tom Hiddleston's Loki after watching Thor...and after the Avengers, I'd say my crush is still in tact, but I might have an even bigger one on the Hulk. Not Bruce Banner...the actual Hulk.

Loki was awesome as a villain. I think these movies are only as good as the bad guy. Tragic bad guys (ala Darth Vader) are the best!

 

[Lintasare]

Then you need to think some more. Seriously.

Wow that was rude. She was merely expressing her own opinion. And I kinda agree with her. Children, especially younger children pick up cues from their parents. If a parent laughs at something the child will more than likely laugh. If a parent is upset then the child gets upset. I see it happen a lot.

 

[Scurvy]

Wow that was rude. She was merely expressing her own opinion. And I kinda agree with her. Children, especially younger children pick up cues from their parents. If a parent laughs at something the child will more than likely laugh. If a parent is upset then the child gets upset. I see it happen a lot.

I agree. That struck me as rude also. People can have different opinions about this. It doesn't mean they are wrong and it doesn't mean that if they think more they will suddenly have the "right" opinion.

Most kids who are old enough to see this movie are going to follow their parents' lead about things like this. If the parents take it seriously, the kids will too. If the parents laugh it off as the joke it was obviously intended to be, the kids will too. The movie is rated PG-13 and while it is mostly just a fun comic book movie about completely unrealistic characters, it does deal with some pretty serious stuff. By the time a kid is old enough to handle the rest of the movie, they should also be able to understand the context of the comment and take it the way it was intended unless their parents act like they should take it seriously. Obviously there are some people who will take it more personally and be bothered or offended by it, but then there are people who will be bothered by almost anything you can joke about. I don't believe those people are the majority in this case, even if you are only considering people who have either adopted who who were themselves adopted.

Since this morning I've asked several more adoptive parents and a couple more adopted people who saw the movie their take on the scene and none of them were bothered by it. That certainly doesn't mean that those who are bothered are wrong to feel that way, but to me it does indicate that those who aren't bothered are also not wrong - or clueless, or ignorant- regardless of their experience (or lack thereof) with adoption.

 

[EMom]

Wow that was rude. She was merely expressing her own opinion. And I kinda agree with her. Children, especially younger children pick up cues from their parents. If a parent laughs at something the child will more than likely laugh. If a parent is upset then the child gets upset. I see it happen a lot.

And I expressed mine. The "thought" was that if children were offended, then it was because they were taught to be overly sensitive by their parents. As the parent of a child who MIGHT be offended by the "He's adopted" line (and I have no idea, as she doesn't want to see the film) that means I have just been insulted, thank you very much. It insults my parenting and that of countless other adoptive parents. And THAT is rude. Simple as that. It implies that adoptive parents raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that. Which is what we do, by the way.

But we can send that message to our kids 24/7 and it will NOT shut out the backward, ignorant messages of society entirely. (the bad seed, blood will out, second best, etc.) And when a kid is sitting in a movie theatre with a room full of people cracking up at "He's adopted" line, then the message they get is not the warm, fuzzy one their parents have been sending to them all their lives. It's the nasty stereotypical negative ones they hear. LITERALLY hear as the laughter rings in their ears.

If I took a kid with Down Syndrome to see a movie and a joke was made at the expense of kids with DS, I would not be shocked to discover that line hurt the child, no matter how much of a positive image their parents had raised them with. If I took a Black child to a movie and the movie said to him (as children internalize these messages) that Black kids are born bad and the whole room laughed, then no matter how much pride he had been taught to have in his race, I'd be less than surprised if he was offended. If I took a homosexual 13 y.o. to a movie that joked about the inherent broken, flawed nature of gays and the laughter of the audience hit them hard, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that their parents had raised them to be crybabies.

You can get one message from your family and quite another from society. That much is clear from the posts on this board. All I am asking is for ADULTS to put themselves in the position of an adopted child and realize that such comments can hurt terribly. It's simple empathy but it must be beyond the capacity of some. Yet it is how we evolve as a society.....or not.

 

[Lintasare]

And I expressed mine. The "thought" was that if children were offended, then it was because they were taught to be overly sensitive by their parents. As the parent of a child who MIGHT be offended by the "He's adopted" line (and I have no idea, as she doesn't want to see the film) that means I have just been insulted, thank you very much. It insults my parenting. And THAT is rude. It implies that adoptive parents raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that. Which is what we do, by the way.


But we can send that message to our kids 24/7 and it will NOT shut out the backward, ignorant messages of society entirely. (the bad seed, blood will out, second best, etc.) And when a kid is sitting in a movie theatre with a room full of people cracking up at "He's adopted" line, then the message they get is not the warm, fuzzy one their parents have been sending to them all their lives. It's the nasty stereotypical negative ones they hear. LITERALLY hear as the laughter rings in their ears.

If I took a kid with Down Syndrome to see a movie and a joke was made at the expense of kids with DS, I would not be shocked to discover that line hurt the child, no matter how much of a positive image their parents had raised them with. If I took a Black child to a movie and the movie said to him (as children internalize these messages) that Black kids are born bad and the whole room laughed, then no matter how much pride he had been taught to have in his race, I'd be less than surprised if he was offended. If I took a homosexual 13 y.o. to a movie that joked about the inherent broken, flawed nature of gays and the laughter of the audience hit them hard, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that their parents had raised them to be crybabies.

You can get one message from your family and quite another from society. That much is clear from the posts on this board. All I am asking is for ADULTS to put themselves in the position of an adopted child and realize that such comments can hurt terribly. It's simple empathy but it must be beyond the capacity of some. Yet it is how we evolve as a society.....or not.

Thanks for jumping down my throat.

 

[Scurvy]

And I expressed mine. The "thought" was that if children were offended, then it was because they were taught to be overly sensitive by their parents. As the parent of a child who MIGHT be offended by the "He's adopted" line (and I have no idea, as she doesn't want to see the film) that means I have just been insulted, thank you very much. It insults my parenting. And THAT is rude. It implies that adoptive parents raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that. Which is what we do, by the way.

But we can send that message to our kids 24/7 and it will NOT shut out the backward, ignorant messages of society entirely. (the bad seed, blood will out, second best, etc.) And when a kid is sitting in a movie theatre with a room full of people cracking up at "He's adopted" line, then the message they get is not the warm, fuzzy one their parents have been sending to them all their lives. It's the nasty stereotypical negative ones they hear. LITERALLY hear as the laughter rings in their ears.

If I took a kid with Down Syndrome to see a movie and a joke was made at the expense of kids with DS, I would not be shocked to discover that line hurt the child, no matter how much of a positive image their parents had raised them with. If I took a Black child to a movie and the movie said to him (as children internalize these messages) that Black kids are born bad and the whole room laughed, then no matter how much pride he had been taught to have in his race, I'd be less than surprised if he was offended. If I took a homosexual 13 y.o. to a movie that joked about the inherent broken, flawed nature of gays and the laughter of the audience hit them hard, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that their parents had raised them to be crybabies.

You can get one message from your family and quite another from society. That much is clear from the posts on this board. All I am asking is for ADULTS to put themselves in the position of an adopted child and realize that such comments can hurt terribly. It's simple empathy but it must be beyond the capacity of some. Yet it is how we evolve as a society.....or not.

No one in this thread said or implied that all adoptive parents "raise their children to be overly sensitive instead of teaching them that adoption is a positive thing, with all the good, loving thoughts that go with that". Some parents do raise children to be overly sensitive and to take offense at everything, but that is hardly exclusive to those who adopt.

I assume you noticed that some of the people who responded that it didn't bother them either have adopted or were adopted themselves. You obviously feel strongly about this but you are reading way more into this than people are saying.

 

[EMom]

Thanks for jumping down my throat.

So someone can insult the parenting of umpteen people and THAT is okay because the person is merely expressing an opinion, but when the target of said remark dares suggest the poster is wrong and needs to continue thinking, THAT is crossing the line? Don't think so. The poster made an observation which happened to double as a thinly veiled insult. They are entitled to do that, but I am also entitled to respond. The poster made a statement about a group of people I happen to belong to. I saw it as flat out wrong and said so.