Is anyone following the Veronica Rose story?

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm looking for a news story or something that backs up these statements. Anyone found anything yet?

I would like to hear the bio father's version of events.

 

[bookgirl]

I think the thing is in SC if a father does not provide prenatal support his rights are up for termination.

If he were told that he had no rights because he did not provide support and told he HAD to sign the papers then by law he was 'tricked' into signing away his rights which I believe is what he claimed when he applied for the adoption to be put aside.

ICWA would have superceded that SC law and he would have the right to contest the adoption. Which is what it looks like happened when he made the bid for custody at 4 months.

I know people are upset that he is using this law and calling it wrong, but it is no more wrong than any other policy put into place based on rights due to race or ethinicticity.

If you are going to adopt a child you have to know there is a chance that the parents might change their mind. It's a sucky thing but it is the way it is. There are laws of adoption, if you enter that process you have to obey all the laws of it. Even the ones you don't like.

 

[cornflake]

The adoptive family hasn't spoken out since the gag order.

The fact that that baby was legally adopted into a loving home and was ONLY returned because someone had some American Indian blood in their parent line is a travesty of justice.

The father provided no support to the bio mother. He was in the Military, he could have married his "fiancee" ( he states they were engaged, she says he'd left her and he DID sign a document giving up parental rights "so he wouldn't have to pay child support ".) He could have married her, and given his wife and daughter insurance instead of welfare. He could have made sure his daughter had a box of pampers. But, suddenly 4 months and an established family later, he changes his mind.

It's a bunch of crap.

He's under no obligation to support another functioning adult and less than no obligation to marry one for goodness sakes.

He filed for custody when she was four months old and apparently deployed. Who knows what happened in the four-month period between her birth and the filing.

Agree the legal q. with the act is quite interesting.

 

[Heidict]

Would love to hear what the courts ruling is on this. For those on this thread who live in an area were this is covered on the news could you please let us know what they decide?

I would really appreciate it and being up here in CT I don't think I will hear about it on our news.

 

[NikitaZee]

I hope the biological father wins, if they had done the right thing when his daughter was 4 months there would have been no trauma for the child. By dragging it out the adoptive parents have been the cause of the trauma. For the sake of the child parent bond they shouldn't see her again. It is going to sound cruel but if you find you are unable to have a child you should only be allowed to adopt if BOTH parents agree if one changes his or her mind and closes to raise the child that is how it should be.

I agree with all of this. Sad for the adoptive parents, yes. But the father filed when the baby was 4 months old - that (to me) isn't too long to realize you want to raise your own flesh and blood. The SC law that states a man gives up those rights by not supporting the pregnant mother are ridiculous IMO. I would also like to hear more of the father's side of the story, but I think it was a good thing that he requested a gag order - look at the publicity the adoptive parents/birth mother were garnering. How can the publicity be good for the little girl?

 

[LisaR]

I agree with all of this. Sad for the adoptive parents, yes. But the father filed when the baby was 4 months old - that (to me) isn't too long to realize you want to raise your own flesh and blood. The SC law that states a man gives up those rights by not supporting the pregnant mother are ridiculous IMO. I would also like to hear more of the father's side of the story, but I think it was a good thing that he requested a gag order - look at the publicity the adoptive parents/birth mother were garnering. How can the publicity be good for the little girl?

I'm not taking sides on this one because there isn't enough information. However, I can not give the father a pass on your comment. The time to decide if you want to raise your own flesh and blood is when you find out you fathered a child. He had 9 months of pregnancy to make that decision but he needed an additional 4 months after birth, so 13 months to decide if he wanted a child?? Should we give him another 13 months of time with Veronica before he decides if he wants to keep her permanently? I have zero sympathy or respect for him if he couldn't man up at the right time. That doesn't mean I don't support him if he was duped into signing termination papers. If so, he should receive full custody. He had a chance to prevent this from happening in the first place by telling his pregnant fiancee that he didn't want to be with her for the rest of his life but he wanted custody of their child.

 

[cornflake]

I'm not taking sides on this one because there isn't enough information. However, I can not give the father a pass on your comment. The time to decide if you want to raise your own flesh and blood is when you find out you fathered a child. He had 9 months of pregnancy to make that decision but he needed an additional 4 months after birth, so 13 months to decide if he wanted a child?? Should we give him another 13 months of time with Veronica before he decides if he wants to keep her permanently? I have zero sympathy or respect for him if he couldn't man up at the right time. That doesn't mean I don't support him if he was duped into signing termination papers. If so, he should receive full custody. He had a chance to prevent this from happening in the first place by telling his pregnant fiancee that he didn't want to be with her for the rest of his life but he wanted custody of their child.

We don't have his side of the story though. We don't know what he knew or when he knew it - when he knew she was born, whether he thought he could raise her alone or whether he was lininig up childcare for his deployment, etc. We also don't know that the biological mother isn't or wasn't lying about what he'd said and what she told him. Maybe she's not, but who knows.

In general, I totally see what you're saying. However, given we don't actually know when he knew what...or, as you point out, what he was told..

 

[duffy]

I'm not taking sides on this one because there isn't enough information. However, I can not give the father a pass on your comment. The time to decide if you want to raise your own flesh and blood is when you find out you fathered a child. He had 9 months of pregnancy to make that decision but he needed an additional 4 months after birth, so 13 months to decide if he wanted a child?? Should we give him another 13 months of time with Veronica before he decides if he wants to keep her permanently? I have zero sympathy or respect for him if he couldn't man up at the right time. That doesn't mean I don't support him if he was duped into signing termination papers. If so, he should receive full custody. He had a chance to prevent this from happening in the first place by telling his pregnant fiancee that he didn't want to be with her for the rest of his life but he wanted custody of their child.

Good to see that you're not taking a side. Other than, of course, in the rest of your post where you take a side.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

I'm curious why no one is calling the birth mom and the agency out on all this. She didn't know the baby daddy was Cherokee? Seriously? And the agency? They had a baby whose daddy came from Oklahoma and they didn't investigate the daddy by at least asking if he was part Indian? Really?

As for the Indian Child Welfare Act, it was an act that stopped Adoption agencies from passing Indian and part Indian children off as White. (This was what happened to ME - I was born a few years before the act was passed.) and stopped adoption agencies from forcibly taking Indian children and adopting them to White families with no information about the child's past or birth family.

It's a difficult law, but if the adoption agencies had worked in good faith, it wouldn't have been necessary; from cases like this, I think the law still needs to be in place.

 

[tammymacb]

In general, I totally see what you're saying. However, given we don't actually know when he knew what...or, as you point out, what he was told..

They guy was in the military? You think he didn't have access to council? To read a contract before he signed it?

 

[tammymacb]

http://www.saveveronica.org/wp-cont...ica-Rose-Psychologist-Letter-to-Lawmakers.pdf

Here's a copy of a letter that says that pre adoption inquiries did not show that the father was registered with the Cherokee Nation. I've posted before that the father joined when he went to court, ( though I can't currently find the old info ). But, this supports that he joined the Cherokee Nation after she was given up.

 

[Poohforyou]

And people wonder why international adoptions are so popular. As an adoptive parent I can't imagine the heartache this couple feels.

 

[cornflake]

They guy was in the military? You think he didn't have access to council? To read a contract before he signed it?

I don't know anyone in the military but I assume they don't actually have access to counsel unless, like anyone else, they're charged with a crime.

Do they really have access to legal counsel they can call up for personal matters who will advise them, read documents, etc. for free because they're in the military?! That's... nuts, if that's true.

 

[duffy]

Sounds to me, like the father decided to use all the resources available to him. Decided to research, found facts that he could use to help his case, and availed himself of them.

As would anyone.

 

[LisaR]

Good to see that you're not taking a side. Other than, of course, in the rest of your post where you take a side.

If this man knew his fiancee was pregnant and he waited 13 months to decide if he wanted to be a father, you will never convince me that he isn't a scum bag. Sorry if that appears as taking sides to you. I don't have to like him to admit that he should still receive custody if he was duped into signing termination papers.

 

[luvmy3]

Sounds to me, like the father decided to use all the resources available to him. Decided to research, found facts that he could use to help his case, and availed himself of them.

As would anyone.

I would think anyone would do that before signing any papers stating they wouldn't contest an adoption.

If this man knew his fiancee was pregnant and he waited 13 months to decide if he wanted to be a father, you will never convince me that he isn't a scum bag. Sorry if that appears as taking sides to you. I don't have to like him to admit that he should still receive custody if he was duped into signing termination papers.

Makes you wonder why he didn't do his research and use the available resources long before Veronica was born, doesn't it?

 

[tammymacb]

I don't know anyone in the military but I assume they don't actually have access to counsel unless, like anyone else, they're charged with a crime.

Do they really have access to legal counsel they can call up for personal matters who will advise them, read documents, etc. for free because they're in the military?! That's... nuts, if that's true.

My husband is retired from the Navy. My step son finished two tours in Afghanistan.

Military bases have attorneys on site to review legal documents for active military members. It's a free service.

They also have access to an attorney prior to being deployed to set up a will, a POA etc. This is also free.

He wouldn't be eligible for a "free lawyer" to represent him in a non military matter, but he definitely had access to an attorney to review the documents he "didn't understand" prior to signing them.

 

[duffy]

I would think anyone would do that before signing any papers stating they wouldn't contest an adoption.




Makes you wonder why he didn't do his research and use the available resources long before Veronica was born, doesn't it?

No, it just makes me think that he didn't feel the need to, until after he changed his mind.

 

[sunshinehighway]

How do we know the bio dad didn't want to help from the beginning? The mother could have refused all help he offered so she could turn around and say he didn't help her. It wouldn't be the first time something like that happened.

It seems like this adoption was set up long before the baby was born. It could be a case where the bio mother pushed the father out of the picture from the start.

It really appears the adoption agency and/or couple's lawyer failed them. I do feel bad for them. I don't like the way they are going about things now. Their story is so biased, I can't help but question it.

 

[luvmy3]

No, it just makes me think that he didn't feel the need to, until after he changed his mind.

If he changed his mind 4 months later, then how is it he was "duped" into signing anything before she was even born?
It sounds like to me that he knew exactly what he signed, and yes he may have changed his mind, but according to State law it was too late for him. Only then did he find this loophole in some archaic law and try to use that. Its just another example of how our justice system is far from fair sometimes.