Post-March Resale Restriction Question/Speculation

[Song of the South]

Okay, so I own post-March resale. This isn't really an issue for me as I intend to use DVC points for DVC stays or rent or bank. My question though is among all the speculation about Disney making further restrictions/divinations amongst direct and resale can Disney make changes today that retro back to March? I didn't and haven't really received any information about my purchase (good thing the points showed up where they were supposed to and my online account works! ) so I don't know if the legalese states that future changes retro or will require announcement (as of Jan. 1, 2013 all resale contracts are restricted to home use only). I'm hoping they require announcement and will only apply from future date forward.

Anyone know?

SotS

 

[Sandisw]

Anything that is a perk can be taken away at any moment. So, I don't think there has to be any type of grandfathering in or notice that certain things will no longer be an option for certain purchasers.

It happened with valet parking--it was free one day and not the next. There were members who dropped the car off at night and when they picked it up the next day were told it would be the full price.

Granted, this affected all members, not just some, but at the end of the day, I think anything can be adjusted the way they want unless it is something specifically addressed in the POS.

 

[Song of the South]

I understand that perks are just that and subject to change but with the change in March was that something that had been in the POS? Is that why it required grandfathering and a big announcement? Other things that are in the POS that may be changed can they retro back to March?

I guess the scenario I am thinking of is something like: As of today all resale contracts purchased after March 2011 no longer can book at 11 months and instead will book at home resort only at 10 months. (In effect that would be a retro active change for people who bought resale between March and today.) Is that possible? Is March 2011 *the* point that future changes on resale will revert back to.

I hope my question is making sense...

I don't have a POS (unless the closing document stating we were buying x number of points with such and such UY is the sum total of the POS) that I am aware of (yet?). This will be sent from Disney eventually, right?

Thanks for the help!

SotS

 

[Sammie]

All we are guaranteed, is an one month advantage at your home resort.

Nothing else is certain. So basically everything could change but that.

As to perks, such as AP discount, pool hopping, we could all lose those at any time.

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

yes, i can see that happening especially with all the numbers
of dvc & with so many of them resales. i think it would include
all resales with new, direct sales , being promoted as a
bonus. resales limited to "their home resorts" & direct
being able to go to any of the resorts.

or,

just like making adjustments toward being able to make revs.-
the direct sales could be @ 11mos, then resales @ 10
month , then opened it up to direct sales @ 7 mos.,
then the resales @ 6 mos. . then taking/processing room
requests in order they came in.

or limiting resales to certain resorts & only being able to make
their room requests @ home resorts.

if home resort resales are still able to make revs. a month
prior to others, they would be ok.

read about a dvc resales member howling about getting a
christmas ornament....sorta demanding their rights, while
bragging about getting resales so cheap. to me, that's
an example of over entitlement. ( though over something
little- it was the point she was trying to make. )

...what i really think rci trades need , is to help dvc members
trade with rci members instead of the current measure.
what i like to see is a lil' match making. between the rci
members where dvc members want to go & vice veresa.
those rci trading in should be "connected" to the rci
members' options be it a resales or direct, thus making
direct more popular ( another direct selling point).

 

[Dean]

I understand that perks are just that and subject to change but with the change in March was that something that had been in the POS? Is that why it required grandfathering and a big announcement? Other things that are in the POS that may be changed can they retro back to March?

I guess the scenario I am thinking of is something like: As of today all resale contracts purchased after March 2011 no longer can book at 11 months and instead will book at home resort only at 10 months. (In effect that would be a retro active change for people who bought resale between March and today.) Is that possible? Is March 2011 *the* point that future changes on resale will revert back to.

I hope my question is making sense...

I don't have a POS (unless the closing document stating we were buying x number of points with such and such UY is the sum total of the POS) that I am aware of (yet?). This will be sent from Disney eventually, right?

Thanks for the help!

SotS

The announcement for March wasn't required, they could have announced that as of today these changes go into effect AND they affect those who are in the purchase process already. They chose to take a more reasonable approach and I'm glad they did. I wish they'd taken a similar approach for things like the valet parking change and the segmenting issue. To answer your ultimate question, yes they can make changes (big changes) that affect you even though you already own. The same is true for retail buyers as well. There are limits but not many. You should think of the worst case scenario for your situation (maybe short of the parks closing though that could happen as well at some point) and anything above that is gravy.

...what i really think rci trades need , is to help dvc members
trade with rci members instead of the current measure.
what i like to see is a lil' match making. between the rci
members where dvc members want to go & vice veresa.
those rci trading in should be "connected" to the rci
members' options be it a resales or direct, thus making
direct more popular ( another direct selling point).

That is unreasonable and unrealistic. They don't even do that for their own Wait list. Think of what you're saying. You are, in effect, suggesting that RCI take trades from someone else who would be ahead of the DVC member in line and give special treatment to DVC and the DVC member. There is no exchange system I am aware of that works this way.

I wonder if you don't understand how the exchange system works. RCI (and no other exchange company) does not match up 2 people who want to exchange with each other. It's a barter system where you put in something and you take out something if you can find what you want and it's available to YOU. The RCI member who goes to DVC is not the same one that gave up the unit the DVC member uses.

What DVC could do, and I've suggested several times that they pursue, is expanding the BVTC. This is a more direct system where you can reserve exactly what you want but it's still subject to availability.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I like that idea, Dean.

Lil'Grumpy, if your wish came true, we would likely all have to pay the exhorbitant RCI membership fees as well in addition to our dues.

 

[bwvBound]

...what i really think rci trades need , is to help dvc members
trade with rci members instead of the current measure.
what i like to see is a lil' match making. between the rci
members where dvc members want to go & vice veresa.
those rci trading in should be "connected" to the rci
members' options be it a resales or direct, thus making
direct more popular ( another direct selling point).

This type of 'match making' is already available through the Timeshare User's Group (TUG) on their Direct Exchange page. Good luck and happy trading!

 

[CarolMN]

I understand that perks are just that and subject to change but with the change in March was that something that had been in the POS? Is that why it required grandfathering and a big announcement? Other things that are in the POS that may be changed can they retro back to March? .....(snip).......

Just wanted to add that -

As far as I know, the POS documents have always been very clear that the "collections" were not guaranteed and could disappear at any time. We bought in 1999 and the language about those options was included.

 

[Dean]

I like that idea, Dean.

Lil'Grumpy, if your wish came true, we would likely all have to pay the exhorbitant RCI membership fees as well in addition to our dues.

As I understand it, BVTC is a fully licensed exchange company. Hilton and Shell were members back when DVC was with RCI the first round. Now that Marriott has a points option it would be easy to include them. DVC could either do what they do now on a larger scale or run it more as a regular exchange option. To use a football analogy, it'd be like 3 or 4 super conferences banding together independent of the NCAA. You've got "the best of the best of the best, sir" all together and they could instantly become the big player.

This type of 'match making' is already available through the Timeshare User's Group (TUG) on their Direct Exchange page. Good luck and happy trading!

There are several ways to arrange private exchanges. Unfortunately private exchanges are very limited and are high risk.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't have a POS (unless the closing document stating we were buying x number of points with such and such UY is the sum total of the POS) that I am aware of (yet?). This will be sent from Disney eventually, right?

Don't know that anyone answered this question. Disney isn't required to send you the POS and I would not expect them to do so without asking.

When you bought resale, it's like buying a house from another family who has been living there for the last 10 years. All information that you get regarding the property must come from that owner. You can't go back to the original builder and demand documentation regarding the house. The builder washed their hands of the property 10 years ago.

In this analogy, DVC (actually DVD...Disney Vacation Development) is the builder. They were required to provide disclosures to the original purchaser. But in a second-hand transfer of ownership only the seller (person from whom you bought the points) has the obligation to provide such documentation.

If you ask DVC, they will probably forward you a copy of the POS. But don't expect to have it just arrive one day.

As to your original question, at this point I would expect DVC to introduce numerous resale restrictions in the coming years and that you will NOT be exempt from those future restrictions. A relatively minor change came to light recently in that resale owners are not eligible to book one of the upcoming Member Cruise even if they wish to pay cash for the entire thing. That restriction was not revealed prior to 3/21/11 yet it is being enforced.

Over time I have every expectation that there will be more limitations imposed and that they will all tie back to the the 3/21/11 date.

 

[Dean]

Don't know that anyone answered this question. Disney isn't required to send you the POS and I would not expect them to do so without asking.

When you bought resale, it's like buying a house from another family who has been living there for the last 10 years. All information that you get regarding the property must come from that owner. You can't go back to the original builder and demand documentation regarding the house. The builder washed their hands of the property 10 years ago.

In this analogy, DVC (actually DVD...Disney Vacation Development) is the builder. They were required to provide disclosures to the original purchaser. But in a second-hand transfer of ownership only the seller (person from whom you bought the points) has the obligation to provide such documentation.

If you ask DVC, they will probably forward you a copy of the POS. But don't expect to have it just arrive one day.

As to your original question, at this point I would expect DVC to introduce numerous resale restrictions in the coming years and that you will NOT be exempt from those future restrictions. A relatively minor change came to light recently in that resale owners are not eligible to book one of the upcoming Member Cruise even if they wish to pay cash for the entire thing. That restriction was not revealed prior to 3/21/11 yet it is being enforced.

Over time I have every expectation that there will be more limitations imposed and that they will all tie back to the the 3/21/11 date.

They will send it if asked. They are legally required to send it if there are any changes or the changes themselves.

 

[Song of the South]

tjkraz and Dean- Thank you both for your answers! I appreciate your time and information. It is great to have a place to post questions that pop into my head and get smart, reliable answers.

What you both said, is what I had a hunch was going to occur. I'm not worried--we bought where we want to stay and if all we can ever do is stay there that is okay with us! Also, I will be contacting DVD for a copy of the POS because I actually like legalese. Plus, it sits better with my soul to have documentation about what we bought.

Thanks!!!

SotS

 

[Dean]

tjkraz and Dean- Thank you both for your answers! I appreciate your time and information. It is great to have a place to post questions that pop into my head and get smart, reliable answers.

What you both said, is what I had a hunch was going to occur. I'm not worried--we bought where we want to stay and if all we can ever do is stay there that is okay with us! Also, I will be contacting DVD for a copy of the POS because I actually like legalese. Plus, it sits better with my soul to have documentation about what we bought.

Thanks!!!

SotS

As long as you plan ahead and are happy with simply the DVC resorts, you will be in good shape. Do read the POS, by-laws and Rules and Regs.

 

[Simba's Mom]

I guess I just see it as a nightmare for MS to keep track of, if they change booking rules, say 11 months for points bought direct, 10 months for resale points. So many of us have a combination of resale and directly bought points at the same resort.

 

[tjkraz]

I guess I just see it as a nightmare for MS to keep track of, if they change booking rules, say 11 months for points bought direct, 10 months for resale points. So many of us have a combination of resale and directly bought points at the same resort.

I don't think that aspect will be a roadblock if DVC decides it wants to implement further restrictions. They already have to deal with owners who have multiple contracts, multiple home resorts, different points on each contract--even members with multiple master contracts and Use Years.

As long as the computer systems are configured properly, it's not much of an issue. CMs won't be able to process any transactions outside of the established boundaries. Some form of warning or error message should easily tell them the nature of the problem.

 

[Dean]

I guess I just see it as a nightmare for MS to keep track of, if they change booking rules, say 11 months for points bought direct, 10 months for resale points. So many of us have a combination of resale and directly bought points at the same resort.

Other companies do such things. I do believe it's possible to make distinctions and keep it relatively simple.

 

[Simba's Mom]

Other companies do such things. I do believe it's possible to make distinctions and keep it relatively simple.

Oh, well-can't blame me for wishful thinking!

 

[Dean]

Oh, well-can't blame me for wishful thinking!

Not as long as you understand that's what it is. Far too often on DIS and other similar DVC related sites we see wishful thinking presented as gospel. My mantra on timeshares is they change and almost always for the worse.