DVC 2012 Dues

[Plutofan]

Assuming that the following information which was released by a reseller of DVC is correct I am surprised on the percentage increase on some of the reports. It apperas that some went up over 8% assuming that the information is correct.

BEACH CLUB VILLA $5.5043
BOARDWALK $5.6160
WILDERNESS $5.6096
HILTON HEAD $5.9290
OLD KEY WEST $5.2035
SARATOGA SPR $4.7309
VERO $7.1163
ANIMAL KINGDOM $5.4356
BAY LAKE TOWERS $4.2219
GRAND CAL $4.3255
AULANI Pre July 27, 2011 $4.4794

Post July 27, 2011 $5.9607

 

[keaster]

I'm a newbie, but I didn't think the 2012 dues come out until after the condo association meetings in December?

 

[Plutofan]

The dues come out before the meeting so that they can be approved at the meeting. Not that we have nay say in approving them.

 

[DenLo]

That's a huge increase at BLT. It will be interesting to see why the sudden increase. The subsidy already ended so that can't be why.

 

[keaster]

Agreed...BLT and AKL are both over 8.4% increase, GCV is over 6.2%.

Why such a big jump for those and not others? At the condo meetings, do they give any kind of explanation for what's behind the decision making, especially with such a steep jump?

 

[Simba's Mom]

I'm curious as to why Vero dues are so much higher than Hilton Head. $7.00 is high! Is it because Property Insurance is higher in Florida?

 

[DebbieB]

Agreed...BLT and AKL are both over 8.4% increase, GCV is over 6.2%.

Why such a big jump for those and not others? At the condo meetings, do they give any kind of explanation for what's behind the decision making, especially with such a steep jump?

Maybe some more Jim Lewis "creative accounting" was discovered. All opened under his lead.

It's interesting that the gap between VWL and BWV has narrowed. When VWL opened, it was $3.94 vs $3.62, even last year it was $5.46 vs $5.34. Now it's less than a penny difference.

History:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=37806698&postcount=2

 

[Greysword]

Not that we have nay say in approving them.

The only say we have is nay say

That's a huge increase at BLT. It will be interesting to see why the sudden increase. The subsidy already ended so that can't be why.

It is my hypothesis (not based on any specific reporting) that DVC was artificially keeping dues at BLT low to reduce the amount DVD had to pay on points they owned, which affected their bottom line. Now that DVD has a very small percentage of the points, are charging more for them, and transferred the common areas to DVC (TotWL, etc), the fees are being normalized.

I also feel it is possible they will potentially increase in this manner over a couple years until the they are at the proper level. Of course, they may include fees for replacing the quickly deteriorating furniture, maintenance and upgrades (adding locks and switching the sinks in the studio bathrooms comes to mind).

It will be interesting to review the itemized list and see if transportation or mouskeeping/front-desk services increased. The former would likely be due to transferring more of the monorail costs (which I thought felt a bit low). The latter would be encouraging for me, as I am ok with paying for it if room availability and maintenance issue response in shored up.

 

[DenLo]

I'm thinking that both AKV and BLT are under funded for their reserves and perhaps the remodel of the BLT studio's bathrooms were paid by the reserves and not absorbed by DVD. I will be reading the annual dues statement throughly.

 

[disneynutz]

The only say we have is nay say

It is my hypothesis (not based on any specific reporting) that DVC was artificially keeping dues at BLT low to reduce the amount DVD had to pay on points they owned, which affected their bottom line. Now that DVD has a very small percentage of the points, are charging more for them, and transferred the common areas to DVC (TotWL, etc), the fees are being normalized.

I also feel it is possible they will potentially increase in this manner over a couple years until the they are at the proper level. Of course, they may include fees for replacing the quickly deteriorating furniture, maintenance and upgrades (adding locks and switching the sinks in the studio bathrooms comes to mind).

It will be interesting to review the itemized list and see if transportation or mouskeeping/front-desk services increased. The former would likely be due to transferring more of the monorail costs (which I thought felt a bit low). The latter would be encouraging for me, as I am ok with paying for it if room availability and maintenance issue response in shored up.

Myself and others posted when BLT was first declared that the dues were too low and that adjustments would be coming. My thoughts were that DVD had set a low dues amount for marketing spin to offset the higher point cost and that after the sold out phase, dues would increase.
I also questioned if Lewis and company had pulled a Aulani with BLT and that this was an additional reason to fire him.

Should be an interesting meeting in December.

Bill

 

[Greysword]

Myself and others posted when BLT was first declared that the dues were too low and that adjustments would be coming. My thoughts were that DVD had set a low dues amount for marketing spin to offset the higher point cost and that after the sold out phase, dues would increase.
I also questioned if Lewis and company had pulled a Aulani with BLT and that this was an additional reason to fire him.

Should be an interesting meeting in December.

Bill

yep, your (and other's) postings is where I got much of the hints and inclination to the idea the rates are artificially low. In addition to the marketing potential, I think it was more about the bottom line, though.

Based on his bio, Jim Lewis was at heart a financial planning and analysis manager. As such, he would be exceptional (and drawn toward) keeping the profit margin as high as possible. Low dues on points owned by DVD would be an easy way to save the division millions of dollars each year, which is why I also believe this was the impetus behind the low Aulani rates, too. Once the point levels owned by the company dip to a predetermined threshold, the dues can be increased to make up for any funding shortfalls within the past few years.

DenLo's point is well taken, too. The repairs were likely born by the members somehow, I just didn't think about it too deeply. The reserves would have been an excellent way to make the "member requested" repairs/alterations without costing EDVD more than they already allocated via annual dues.

 

[drewmisha]

Doesn't this constitute fraud? When there are villas to be sold, keep the MF's low to make it appear cheap; when the villas are sold out, bam! The MF's jump up. Aside from accounting trickery, sounds illegal to me.

Myself and others posted when BLT was first declared that the dues were too low and that adjustments would be coming. My thoughts were that DVD had set a low dues amount for marketing spin to offset the higher point cost and that after the sold out phase, dues would increase.
I also questioned if Lewis and company had pulled a Aulani with BLT and that this was an additional reason to fire him.

Should be an interesting meeting in December.

Bill

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

Well there's an extra $133 out of my pocket next year. Ouch! That's dinner for two at a nice sit-down. LOL, wish I hadn't read this thread. It wouldn't have seemed quite as bad to see that my monthly checking account deductions had gone up $11.

 

[disneynutz]

Doesn't this constitute fraud? When there are villas to be sold, keep the MF's low to make it appear cheap; when the villas are sold out, bam! The MF's jump up. Aside from accounting trickery, sounds illegal to me.

And that's why Lewis and the other Execs were fired. Disney's way of distancing themselves from the bad people who would do such a thing.

Brag about his accomplishments, give him a bonus and a new office building one day and fire him the next. Sounds like many of the other large corporations that are in the news.

Bill

 

[Andrew015]

Doesn't this constitute fraud? When there are villas to be sold, keep the MF's low to make it appear cheap; when the villas are sold out, bam! The MF's jump up. Aside from accounting trickery, sounds illegal to me.

It wouldn't be considered fraudulant, seeing as how we've all inked the contracts that state that our dues are subject to annual increases up to 15%. Regardless of whether or not this approach appears to be deceitful or just morally wrong, we've all agreed to play by these rules.

IMHO, this is just good business on Disney's part, no matter how crappy it seems to the end-user (don't get me wrong, I don't like it anymore than anyone else).

This factored into my recent purchase decision, as I wasn't counting on BLT's dues remaining rock bottom for very long. I would imagine that over the next 5-10 years, they'll creep up and be in line with the other resorts. Disney probably wouldn't have sold very many contracts at $140/point PLUS a high maintenance fee.

Add this to the ever-growing list of arguements to NEVER buy direct!

 

[Rob S.]

I'm thinking that both AKV and BLT are under funded for their reserves and perhaps the remodel of the BLT studio's bathrooms were paid by the reserves and not absorbed by DVD. I will be reading the annual dues statement throughly.

I agree with this completely. If we look at the increase from 2010 to 2011, AKV went up 1.3% and BLT went up 3.1%. However, if you look at the individual components of the dues, the operating expense portion went up over 14% at both properties. That was offset by a huge reduction in the capital reserves (both >20%). The 14% increase in the operating expenses was driven by an increased cost for Housekeeping (44% at AKV and 15% and BLT), which we were told was driven by health care costs.

The 8% increases at both properties does not surprise me.

 

[arthur06]

These increases might control add on's for some people.

Not for me, but for some.

 

[disneynutz]

It wouldn't be considered fraudulant, seeing as how we've all inked the contracts that state that our dues are subject to annual increases up to 15%. Regardless of whether or not this approach appears to be deceitful or just morally wrong, we've all agreed to play by these rules.

IMHO, this is just good business on Disney's part, no matter how crappy it seems to the end-user (don't get me wrong, I don't like it anymore than anyone else).

This factored into my recent purchase decision, as I wasn't counting on BLT's dues remaining rock bottom for very long. I would imagine that over the next 5-10 years, they'll creep up and be in line with the other resorts. Disney probably wouldn't have sold very many contracts at $140/point PLUS a high maintenance fee.

Add this to the ever-growing list of arguements to NEVER buy direct!

For a new owner you caught on really quick!

Bill

 

[randomiam79]

Ahh, more fuel for the 'i told you never to buy a timeshare' crowd

So why exactly the huge increase? New fire pit and jogging track? Fixing the original design flaw of the bathroom doors? Hey, Maybe they're investing some money into educating people what a 'theme park view' actually means! Whatever it is, nothing we can do but sell off our points or continue to the almighty mouse and his nifty ways to get more and more of our money and have us enjoy it so much that we don't seem to mind.

 

[drewmisha]

Yes we have signed contracts that allows Disney to increase it to 15% max.
However if they increase the rates illegally by whatever means, the contract
provisions will mean squat.

Looking at all the resorts, why did AKL and BLT have 8% raises? One poster
said it was due to housekeeping. Aren't all housekeepers under one union?
Why the difference? The end of the year condo booklets will help explain some
but the line item explanations are watered down.

GCV has a 6% increase. As a smallest DvC villa it is shocking. Wonder if we are getting a 'disproportionate' share of the overhead with the hotel portion.

It wouldn't be considered fraudulant, seeing as how we've all inked the contracts that state that our dues are subject to annual increases up to 15%. Regardless of whether or not this approach appears to be deceitful or just morally wrong, we've all agreed to play by these rules.

IMHO, this is just good business on Disney's part, no matter how crappy it seems to the end-user (don't get me wrong, I don't like it anymore than anyone else).

This factored into my recent purchase decision, as I wasn't counting on BLT's dues remaining rock bottom for very long. I would imagine that over the next 5-10 years, they'll creep up and be in line with the other resorts. Disney probably wouldn't have sold very many contracts at $140/point PLUS a high maintenance fee.

Add this to the ever-growing list of arguements to NEVER buy direct!