Are they getting rid of the wand at EPCOT?

[hauntedmansion79]

I've heard rumors that the wand and hand at EPCOT is going to be removed. It's probably true because every shot of Spaceship Earth for promotional reasons doesn't have the wand and hand. So they either don't like it either, or are planning to remove it. Does anyone know if and when it will be removed?

I hope it does get removed. I like the sphere all by itself, it's such a remarkable structure and the wand and hand take away from it. The wand and hand don't look quality, at least not by Disney standards.

[Sarangel]

Don't get too excited by all those promotional shots, they're mostly old footage that Disney's too lazy to change. I know they're lazy because my husband was in a focus group that was for the DL 50th promotion & showed the WDW castle on the pretext that "nobody would notice."

Anyway, the only rumors that I've heard about the wand & hand are from us Disney-geeks who think it's ugly.

[Scalemaster34]

I doubt it... the thing cost almost $9 milllion dollars to build. :smooth:

[TheBellhop]

I doubt it... the thing cost almost $9 milllion dollars to build. :smooth:

Somehow I doubt that the wand took 9 million dollars to build...?

If that's true, I think that money could have been put to much better use.

[Scalemaster34]

americanbridge.net/projects/struct/detail.php?jobnum=482110

This is a link to the American Bridge company who built the "sign" at EPCOT as well as many other WDW and DCL Projects.

Direct Link may not work, if not from the main Projects Page click "Structures", then click "Experience", then click "Other Complex Structures". The Millennium ICON project should be one of the listed projects, click on it for some of the construction information.

They the Contract Value at $8,926,918.00. What would be interesting to know is if this included and of the design and engineering work that would have gone into a project like this. If Disney did all the design work, you might need to add a million more to the total cost.

Either way, I agree this was a hugh waste of money.

[Another Voice]

Yes, the "Icons for Idiots" (the Epcot sign and the big hat at Disney-MGM) both cost roughly $10 million to put up.

But I'll gladly help rip them down for free.

[Lord Fantasius]

americanbridge.net/projects/struct/detail.php?jobnum=482110

This is a link to the American Bridge company who built the "sign" at EPCOT as well as many other WDW and DCL Projects.

Direct Link may not work, if not from the main Projects Page click "Structures", then click "Experience", then click "Other Complex Structures". The Millennium ICON project should be one of the listed projects, click on it for some of the construction information.

They the Contract Value at $8,926,918.00. What would be interesting to know is if this included and of the design and engineering work that would have gone into a project like this. If Disney did all the design work, you might need to add a million more to the total cost.

Either way, I agree this was a hugh waste of money.

For $9 million I would have expected the wand and hand to be able to move...in fact the first time I saw it in person, I stood there about 15 minutes waiting for it to swing side by side or do something since the latticework support really looked like they could have a couple of hinges buried in there somewhere.

The difference between contract value and actual cost can be immense, but if it did price at just below $9 million I expect the cost breakdown would show that $1 million was used to fabricate the wand, about $3 million to install it, $4 million worth of promotional material to convince everyone how cool it looked, and lastly, about a million for American Bridge to contribute to Eisner's pension/reelection campaign.

Admittedly, knowing that nothing for sale in the entire park, let alone the American Pavilion (don't get me started), is actually made in the USA, I expect they imported the steel for the whole structure as well.

Oh, yeah, forgot about the lightbulbs....

-R

P.S., the only real use for the hand and wand would be to change the wand into a sword and then sink them into the middle of the lagoon. Then, every night during Illuminations, the could do a King Arthur sequence and have the sword and hand rise up out of the lake with a lasar beam coming from the tip of the sword.

P.P.S., wait, I'm on a role...how about if we just remove the wand and then have the hand waiving hi or bye as people pass by; or better yet, make it into a thrill ride - The Hand of Terror - people ride up to the top of the hand, but there's no way to get down, you have to stay up there all day and have people take pictures of you in the hand...now that would be terror!

Any more ideas on what to do with the hand and wand (keep it clean, people, this is a family/public board)? I can think of a few more, but don't want to give away all my good ideas for free...

[kgilchri]

P.S., the only real use for the hand and wand would be to change the wand into a sword and then sink them into the middle of the lagoon. Then, every night during Illuminations, the could do a King Arthur sequence and have the sword and hand rise up out of the lake with a lasar beam coming from the tip of the sword.

P.P.S., wait, I'm on a role...how about if we just remove the wand and then have the hand waiving hi or bye as people pass by; or better yet, make it into a thrill ride - The Hand of Terror - people ride up to the top of the hand, but there's no way to get down, you have to stay up there all day and have people take pictures of you in the hand...now that would be terror!

Any more ideas on what to do with the hand and wand (keep it clean, people, this is a family/public board)? I can think of a few more, but don't want to give away all my good ideas for free...

:rotfl: You crack me up! I love the sword idea!

[rocketriter]

Not a joke response:
The wand and that hat are both so large that they're out of scale for the buildings around them. Beyond that their problems are different. The wand is at the wrong park, since it celebrates magic at a park that celebrates science and international culture. And its design is techno-medieval, clamped onto a Buckminster Fuller geodesic structure. In contrast, the hat's in the right park; Fantasia is welcome at a Hollywood celebration even if it's not strictly MGM (which is not strictly anything today, anyway). However, its placement is horrible, destroying the visual flow down the main avenue to the Chinese theatre. And all this for a bandstand and pin shop? That's like putting a shopping mall in the middle of the Washington Mall. I say get rid of both of them. They're both blunders.

[DisFlan]

Wow, I'd love to see that wand gone. I've always disliked it. But I'd rather see the Leave a Legacy "tombstones" gone first. IMO, they're an eyesore for what used to be a beautiful entrance area.

DisFlan

[ChrisFL]

Wow, I'd love to see that wand gone. I've always disliked it. But I'd rather see the Leave a Legacy "tombstones" gone first. IMO, they're an eyesore for what used to be a beautiful entrance area.

DisFlan

you mean you don't want to leave a legacy of a tiny, low-res black and white image of yourself? ;)

I never understood that, oh wait, it makes money, DUH!

[DisFlan]

you mean you don't want to leave a legacy of a tiny, low-res black and white image of yourself? ;)

I never understood that, oh wait, it makes money, DUH!

lol! Yup, that's sure what we saw those big slabs as - money makers. We had a "legacy" included in a package a few years ago. We didn't leave one.

We still don't understand what the "legacy" is, or why anyone would want their picture there (with a bazillion others) just to prove they'd been to WDW - much less pay for it. If anyone wants to leave a legacy, send the money to feed a hungry kid in Africa - or something else that's even moderately useful.

DisFlan

[I Am Clark Kent]

Well if you think about it, Walt Disney himself wanted EPCOT to be a Hotel of sorts. Just look at the early models of EPCOT, it was originally supposed to be a high rise with a wandlike appearance. :wizard:

Do you think the Wand is an attempt to more accuratly convey his vision of EPCOT, the world of tommorow? :rotfl2:

All they really need to do with the wand is extend Mickey's middle finger, and we have a perfect example of what EPCOT and Disney represent in the 21st Century. :rotfl2:

Now EPCOT of the 22nd century will be more about the pursuit of money, :teacher: instead of happiness.

But seriously both the hat and the wand are architectural blunders which augment the parks uniqueness. If it we're up to me, I'd hire someone from Frank Loyd Wright's practice, to re-design the parks. :badpc:

[HitchhikingGhost]

OK. First, Clark, EPCOT was not supposed to be a hotel, but a community. An Environmental City of sorts. Say, a Prototype. Sorta from the future, or at the very least the way it should be done in the future. Maybe Tomorrow. I guess a good name Walt could have come up with was Environmental Prototype Community Of Tommorow. Wait, Walt did come up with Epcot, but the end result was not his vision.

Second, all this talk about the wand. . . blah blah blah. The structure was originally built to hold the 2000 for the Millennium celebration, and well, ya know, the cost-an-arm-and-a-leg-thing kinda dictated a continued use. . . if we only had an idea. Anyone?

With an idea? For the structure?

Anyone at all?


You there, on the third row. . . um-hm. But, . . . ok. Nice job there, Stu, but NASA doesn't really need another launch gantry.

Anyone else? For the structure thingy? That cost so much to build?



Anything, Please!

Wand? Did someone say Wand? OK. Great. Super. Fit in? What? Who cares?

Done.

[ChrisFL]

OK. First, Clark, EPCOT was not supposed to be a hotel, but a community. An Environmental City of sorts. Say, a Prototype. Sorta from the future, or at the very least the way it should be done in the future. Maybe Tomorrow. I guess a good name Walt could have come up with was Environmental Prototype Community Of Tommorow. Wait, Walt did come up with Epcot, but the end result was not his vision.

exactly...what we know as Epcot has maybe 10% similarity to the real EPCOT that Walt envisioned and it's very sad that his dream for a community never came to be as it was an incredible idea

[DVCconvert]

All they really need to do with the wand is extend Mickey's middle finger, and we have a perfect example of what EPCOT and Disney represent in the 21st Century.

Yo, Clark -- use your x-ray vision to look and see how many fingers Mickey has -- then get back to us with your plan :crazy:

[Saxsoon]

I love the hat and wand, it changed it up a little. I am glad they changed it. Looking into MGM was lame with no color, kind of dull. And the leave a legacy, to me, gives a sci fi feel of an alien rocky shore. I like it a lot. It should not change.

[Crazy Hakim]

Try this link:
http://www.americanbridge.net/projects/struct/detail.php?jobnum=482110

[hucifer]

Second, all this talk about the wand. . . blah blah blah. The structure was originally built to hold the 2000 for the Millennium celebration, and well, ya know, the cost-an-arm-and-a-leg-thing kinda dictated a continued use. . . if we only had an idea. Anyone?

With an idea? For the structure?

Anyone at all?

You there, on the third row. . . um-hm. But, . . . ok. Nice job there, Stu, but NASA doesn't really need another launch gantry.

Anyone else? For the structure thingy? That cost so much to build?

Anything, Please!

Wand? Did someone say Wand? OK. Great. Super. Fit in? What? Who cares?

Done.
:rotfl:

Call me a purist, but I really miss the simplicity and beauty of Spaceship Earth by itself. The Mickey hand is so tacky and out of place to me.

[raidermatt]

The wand is one thing, but if they remove the sign, how will we know which park we are in? Its already tough to figure it out in the other three. Instead of taking down the Epcot sign, they should add signs to the castle in MK, the BAH in MGM, and the Tree o' Life in AK.

[mitros]

Since the wand and the hat were done during king Ei$ners reign, I lump them with his other debacle, The Disney Institute, also one of his ideas, although years after it was developed, and it was starting to flounder, he blamed underlings for it's problems, not himself, for coming up with the concept that failed.

[dbm20th]

Okay, I'll be one of the few...

I have loved EPCOT from it's very beginning and I think the wand is great! If there is one thing I like, it's that darn mouse amd EPCOT needed a great big mouse injection. The wand adds color to what used to be a virtual black and white icon. Now it's the coolest park icon with the biggest darn mouse you'll ever find. KEEP THE WAND!

Not to be mean, but it seems many folks on these boards simply don't like things to change much at WDW, and that's understandable. If they did nothing to it, it would always remain the definition of magic. But I like some changes now and again, and even though the wand was expensive, it ain't my nickel. Looks great!

[ChrisFL]

But I like some changes now and again, and even though the wand was expensive, it ain't my nickel. Looks great!

Really? You visit the parks for free?

[DisFlan]

Okay, I'll be one of the few...

I have loved EPCOT from it's very beginning and I think the wand is great! If there is one thing I like, it's that darn mouse amd EPCOT needed a great big mouse injection. The wand adds color to what used to be a virtual black and white icon. Now it's the coolest park icon with the biggest darn mouse you'll ever find. KEEP THE WAND!

Not to be mean, but it seems many folks on these boards simply don't like things to change much at WDW, and that's understandable. If they did nothing to it, it would always remain the definition of magic. But I like some changes now and again, and even though the wand was expensive, it ain't my nickel. Looks great!

It's fine if you like the wand and tombstones. Tastes differ. Changes are fine, too - the new rides are great. But IMO, they didn't put the entrance area changes where they needed to be! While the wand and tombstones were going in, much of the Future World core area was becoming dated and irrelevant. Innoventions isn't, and the hole from AT&T's departure was left depressingly bare for years.

As for being "Mickey-ized", I don't think that was ever the intent of Epcot. If you want Mickey at Epcot, you can find plenty of him in the shops.

DisFlan

[raidermatt]

I'm all for positive changes.

[jeanylaser]

mickey's hand of epcot is the coolest way so i don't get confused the attraction.

[dbm20th]

Really? You visit the parks for free?

Very funny. Budgets are budgets and the wand fit into the budget. Do you think if they didn't put it there that we would all be paying less? Give me a break

[dbm20th]

As for being "Mickey-ized", I don't think that was ever the intent of Epcot. DisFlan

That is certainly true, but if by "intent" you are referring to Walt's intent...well they through that out the door before the park ever opened. Using your logic I'd say... you're in WDW! If you want to get away from the mouse, what are doing in Mouseland!

[Tampa]

The wand is at the wrong park, since it celebrates magic at a park that celebrates science and international culture. And its design is techno-medieval, clamped onto a Buckminster Fuller geodesic structure.


Smart way to put it! It's like a wizard playing jumbo golf.

When I had subwoofers installed in my ride, I was impressed that I got my money's worth as a single wire could not be found. If I'm going to pay 9 million for an arm, I want to be able to pull hairs from it.. forget that, it would have to be a robot arm... that shoots fireworks! And I certainly do not want to see any of the bones/scaffolding inside it.

[raidermatt]

well they through that out the door before the park ever opened.
The counter to that of course, is that they still didn't try to Mousify Epcot when the park opened. That came much later.

Further, isn't there a tremendous potential benefit to finding ways to keep the parks unique from each other, rather than make them more similar? Really, WDW as an entire resort is about far more than the Mouse. Without getting into the specific execution of different ideas, I think that's good, not bad.

If you have 4 Magic Kingdoms, are you really going to attract that many more people than if you had 1 Magic Kingdom? Conversely, if you have 4 very distinct, but very appealing parks, don't you have a better chance at widening you audience. (note, I'm not necessarily talking about thrills vs. dark rides, kiddies vs. teens, etc.)

I know that putting a wand on the BGB doesn't turn Epcot into MK, but clearly that's part of a bigger strategy, and that's what I'm questioning.

[Tampa]

Well, from my knowledge, back in the day the rules were, no characters in Epcot. They have no place in the park. This didn't sit right with imagineers and hence, the birth of Hidden Mickey.

I remember as a kid seeing Mickey and Donald walking around in space suits with fish bowl tops. Pretty much like the ones we wear in VMK, but gray. They were definitily fish out of water during the themes of the time period.

[coby421]

I wouldn't mind seeing the wand gone but it doens't seem as out of place as the hat at mgm, its just massive.

[ChrisFL]

The MGM Hat I thought was going to be a bit of a cover in case they decided to start ripping out the great movie ride and make a new attraction.

[Tampa]

maybe just bring the hat on over to the BGB, put it on top (at a slant for the cool hip look, of course) and complete the look?

[Maistre Gracey]

The wand never bothered me. In fact, I kinda like it.
The hat on the other hand, is truly ridiculous. :drinking:

MG

[CherCrazy]

I agree 100% with you.

I loved the old entrance to Epcot..without the monoliths, and the mickey THING!

[athenna]

The wand never bothered me. In fact, I kinda like it.
The hat on the other hand, is truly ridiculous. :drinking:

MG

I agree w/you completely. I like the wand, I think it's cool. But I hate that horrible hat in MGM. Ruins the whole view. IMO.

[primax]

I personally love seeing the hand and wand. What I am surprised to read is that no one has mentioned the true purpose of the wand.

The wand has become a permanent fixture on the globe for safety reasons. When the Tower of Terror was built it was designed to be above 200 feet in the air, however due to building restriction in the area of disney any building over 200 feet is required to have a blinking red light as a structure indicator for air traffic. This light allows planes to see the structure at night and thus not crash into it. Disney did not feel the blinking red light would fit into the theming of TOT so the build the attraction at 199 feet in the air to avoid the restriction. At the time the TOT was the tallest structure on Disney property but Disney recognized their own ignorance with saftey so the imagineers thought up the hand and wand. The hand and wand is exactly 200 feet in the air with the blinking red light at the top of the wand. The wand is now the tallest structure on Disney property and also acts as the center piece for air traffic to locate Disney property if needed. The air space is restricted however this did not exempt Disney from following the same restriction as any other building near MCO. If any structures exceeds the current 200 feet high point in Disney that structure will need the indicator unless the wand grows!!!

PMX

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=417822

[Another Voice]

The wand has become a permanent fixture on the globe for safety reasons.
One would think you could accomplish the same thing by putting the red light on top of a five foot pole mounted on top of the sphere. Adding a huge tower just to hold up a navigation light is a little over-engineering, isn't it? I mean, they can't even paint the trash cans any more so they match an area's theme, but they can drop $9 million is disguise a red blinking light as a wand?

And a pilot needs a wand to tell them they're flying over Walt Disney World? One would also think a giant 200 foot silver sphere might tell them that. Or a two hundred castle. Or the miles of monorail beams. Or the giant Mickey Mouse looking up at them from the Disney/MGM Studios. Or the fifty foot Dolphin/Fishes on top a twenty story pink hotel. Or maybe a two foot tree surrounding by an African veldt.

Sorry, but the wand was just a rather silly "landmark" some marketing consultant dreamed up to make the Y2K party "memorable" - just like dressing up the castle as a cake did for WDW's 25th anniversary. For Disney, it was cheaper to replace the "2000" with "Epcot" than to take the whole thing down.

[Lord Fantasius]

I personally love seeing the hand and wand. What I am surprised to read is that no one has mentioned the true purpose of the wand.

The wand has become a permanent fixture on the globe for safety reasons. When the Tower of Terror was built it was designed to be above 200 feet in the air, however due to building restriction in the area of disney any building over 200 feet is required to have a blinking red light as a structure indicator for air traffic. This light allows planes to see the structure at night and thus not crash into it. Disney did not feel the blinking red light would fit into the theming of TOT so the build the attraction at 199 feet in the air to avoid the restriction. At the time the TOT was the tallest structure on Disney property but Disney recognized their own ignorance with saftey so the imagineers thought up the hand and wand. The hand and wand is exactly 200 feet in the air with the blinking red light at the top of the wand. The wand is now the tallest structure on Disney property and also acts as the center piece for air traffic to locate Disney property if needed. The air space is restricted however this did not exempt Disney from following the same restriction as any other building near MCO. If any structures exceeds the current 200 feet high point in Disney that structure will need the indicator unless the wand grows!!!

PMX
...an urban myth waiting to bury itself if ever I've heard one! Can we say "Contemporary Resort," "Mickey Watertower?"

A giant St. Loius-style arch over SE (with EPCOT emblazoned on its side in Art Deco lettering for those that are theme-park-identity-challenged) would have been more dramatic and artistically-pleasing than a cartoon hand and stubby wand.

-R

[KS Jeff]

Only the airspace at or below 3000' AGL is restricted. Go look at a current JAX sectional to read the notation.

If that light is there it's because it's mandated to be there, not to serve as a navaid. One red blinking light looks pretty much like any other one from the air be it on top of a wand, an antenna or Rudolph's nose.

[primax]

...an urban myth waiting to bury itself if ever I've heard one! Can we say "Contemporary Resort," "Mickey Watertower?"

A giant St. Loius-style arch over SE (with EPCOT emblazoned on its side in Art Deco lettering for those that are theme-park-identity-challenged) would have been more dramatic and artistically-pleasing than a cartoon hand and stubby wand.

-R

I assure you that the wand is the tallest structure on Disney Property and has a blinking red light at the top of its structure specifically for aircraft. Now Allearsnet quotes the wand is actually 257 feet tall. I assure you that Tower of Terror was built at 199 feet for a reason - to be within code.

TAKEN FROM ALLEARSNET
"For the Millennium Celebration, a special structure was attached to Spaceship Earth, Mickey's Hand holding up the 2000. Subsequently, the word EPCOT replaced the 2000 on Spaceship Earth. At 257 feet tall, the Millennium 2000 Icon was the tallest point at Walt Disney World Resort, besting the 199 feet of The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror at Disney-MGM Studios."

[Lord Fantasius]

I assure you that the wand is the tallest structure on Disney Property and has a blinking red light at the top of its structure specifically for aircraft. Now Allearsnet quotes the wand is actually 257 feet tall. I assure you that Tower of Terror was built at 199 feet for a reason - to be within code.

TAKEN FROM ALLEARSNET
"For the Millennium Celebration, a special structure was attached to Spaceship Earth, Mickey's Hand holding up the 2000. Subsequently, the word EPCOT replaced the 2000 on Spaceship Earth. At 257 feet tall, the Millennium 2000 Icon was the tallest point at Walt Disney World Resort, besting the 199 feet of The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror at Disney-MGM Studios."
But if they didn't build the wand they wouldn't need the blinking red light...I don't think the Florida code every required Disney to build anything over 200', did it?

I also assure you that if Florida inspectors wanted Disney to have a blinking red light on top TOT it would be there regardless of Disney's, or their architect's, claim that it is only 199' tall. If in doubt, the state usually wins.

-R

[RobInBigKC]

But if they didn't build the wand they wouldn't need the blinking red light...
Exactly. I don't think anyone is saying the wand is not the tallest structure at WDW. It is the structure that ruined a structure that already stood as an icon on its own.

And a pilot needs a wand to tell them they're flying over Walt Disney World? One would also think a giant 200 foot silver sphere might tell them that. Or a two hundred castle. Or the miles of monorail beams. Or the giant Mickey Mouse looking up at them from the Disney/MGM Studios. Or the fifty foot Dolphin/Fishes on top a twenty story pink hotel. Or maybe a two foot tree surrounding by an African veldt.

Sorry, but the wand was just a rather silly "landmark" some marketing consultant dreamed up to make the Y2K party "memorable"
Another "exactly". Well said AV.

-- Rob

[JIMINOCCHIO]

OK. First, Clark, EPCOT was not supposed to be a hotel, but a community. An Environmental City of sorts. Say, a Prototype. Sorta from the future, or at the very least the way it should be done in the future. Maybe Tomorrow. I guess a good name Walt could have come up with was Environmental Prototype Community Of Tommorow. Wait, Walt did come up with Epcot, but the end result was not his vision.

FYI - the "E" in Epcot stands for Experimental, not Environmental.

[Galahad]

Art Deco lettering
-R

Oh I like that!

Personally I wish the wand would go the way of the pink castle, but the infrastructure looks pretty permanent to me.

[Cobra B.]

I think they should replace the wand with a dollar bill. :teeth:

[raidermatt]

Maybe a billboard to cross-promote ABC shows...

[Peter Pirate]

I think an homage to Fruit of the Loom would be appropriate.
pirate:

[freediverdude]

I thought the Dolphin resort was the tallest structure in Disney? It sure looks taller than that wand thing to me, but maybe cause it's a huge building. Why don't they just take the wand and hand part off of the structure, and then offer elevator rides up to a small observation platform at the top? I guess it would still be an ugly structure sitting next to the ball though.....

[Drummer71]

I kind of like how the hand looks and how it gives Epcot's symbol more color, but I think Disney could have done better. Maybe insted of a huge wand they could have painted Spaceship Earth pepto-pink and put huge balloons that look like over-sized candy all over it. That definatly would hav given it some color.