Paying for fastpass in 2006?????

[disney-itch]

I just picked up Birnbaum's Walt Disney World for Kids by Kids! for my 8yr old DD. (I never read Birnbaum's myself, just the Unoffical Guide and of course these boards to get all the info I ever need ) I thought she'd enjoy the photos and Disney explained in Kids Speak.

Well, I look at the second page and there is an explanation of fastpass,then this got my attention..."Fastpass is usually free for guests staying at deluxe Walt Disney World hotels. Other guests may have to pay for it in 2006" :earseek:

Have I missed any past theads about this?...I know that there was a thead on the rumors board but it is from this past summer. In that thread, all the discussion stemed from an article from Jim Hill and talked about patents. I'm not sure when this 2006 guide came out, the copywrite is 2005. The fact that it is in writing really makes me nervous. :confused3

*I posted this on the Theme Parks board. It was suggested that I post this here too.

[raidermatt]

The '06 guide was published in October.

To me, the fact that it is in the "official" guide leaves no doubt that the change is under consideration by Disney, or at least it was when the guide went to press.

If, when and how it will actually be implemented is still a question, though.

[DoeWDW]

Since you use your park ticket to get fastpasses, maybe it would be an add-on to Magic Your Way tickets sold to guests at the gates and at all resorts except the deluxe resorts. I would guess if you are a guest at a deluxe resort, they will automatically put it on your Magic Your Way tickets.

This sounds like it would be a nightmare to implement, unless they change the machines to accept your park ticket and then your room key card.

[DisneyKidds]

Show of hands.........who, as begrudgingly as you might do it, would pay for fastpass if that is what comes to be?

I suppose I would. If I'm dropping five grand on a WDW vacation, I can't see myself letting another couple hundred dollars come between me and maximum enjoyment of my trip. For Disney trips, fastpass has become a drug of choice for many. I can't see going cold turkey. Sure, that may be giving in to Disney and their tactics, but so be it. It's a personal thing, but I don't want to sacrifice my enjoyment to take the moral high ground. I'd do that with many things, but fastpass (which if used wisely is a wonderful thing) just wouldn't be one of them.

Six Flags has a fastpass like system that you have to pay for, done electronically via handhelds. In a heartbeat I'd use it on a trip there, when rides like Kinda Ka can frequently have lines up to 3 hours long.

[Luv2Roam]

I wouldn't, just as we don't at USO.
And I suppose in the long run it would cut down on pur park time. Or we would be more selective when we would go. Which would make me re-think buying Premiums APs over regular.

[Horizons16]

Remember when life was easy without fastpass??

Might get flamed for that but hey there was no planning on here there just for a fastpass no waiting for the stand-by line or the fastpass line depending on where you are.

Dont get me wrong I use it all the time. Unfortunatly all the paying clones came up at other parks so Disney saw that guests are more than happy to pay for it so its just another venue of income for them.

[JimMIA]

I wouldn't, just as we don't at USO.
And I suppose in the long run it would cut down on pur park time. Or we would be more selective when we would go. Which would make me re-think buying Premiums APs over regular.
We wouldn't either. There is NO ride at WDW that we absolutely MUST go on, and if the lines are too long, we just do it on the next trip. FP's are great, but if they're not available, we'll adjust.

I'd be surprised if they actually started charging. I think it would be both a logistical and marketing disaster. There's a pain threshhold where any money spent for things like FP's is really just going to be less spent on food or merchandise.

I think the more likely avenue for Disney to take is to offer extra FP's or the ability to schedule FP's for onsite guests. That's more in line with their approach to the Dining Plans, ME, etc.

[Mickmse2002]

I'm not sure what we would do. We use them now and they are awfully convenient for certain attractions but I do not think I am willing to shell out extra money for this convenience. I would have to see the details before passing judgement.

[wdwfan1]

So--how would they handle someone staying at a Deluxe using an AP???

[PrincessAurora]

I would pay, grrrr, but it would also depend on how much the FP add on was. Hope they don't do it although since I usually stay at Wilderness Lodge, guess I dont have to worry.

[tchrrx]

I will be staying at Deluxe this June. Does that mean that the Fast Pass will be automatic for me? I was not planning on getting one, I just thought I'd wait in lines. Should I get a FP, even if it's not included in my Deluxe accomodations? Will you please explain to me how the FP works, as I am hopelessly confused? :confused: Thanks!

[almacdonald]

Can you imagine having to pay and only being able to get 1 fastpass every 2 hours? they'd have to change the system. I think it's a terrible idea personally.

[Luv2Roam]

Yes, then Universal could really point out that THEIR on-site stay truly means Front of the Line. (Which it does.) USO has a separate Express Pass system.
If Disney guests paid, even a little, they would expect more.
USO Express pass cost is ridiculous, I think.
But I think Disney has way too many guests to have guests pay for FP. They would HAVE to limit the number sold each day. And I am sure their guest complaints would rise significantly.
Then again those going to Guest Services to complain about anything would probably receive FPs -- a cheap, yet pleasing way out if a jam.

[bicker]

I suspect the "more" guests would be paying for is the ability to select the timeslot for the FastPasses they'd get. I'd be willing to pay for that -- especially with Park Hoppers (being able to get FastPasses for attractions in a park we don't plan to arrive in until the afternoon).

[jade1]

I suspect it will be more of a "convienence selection" than an actual charge. In other words if you are at a Deluxe you get 4 pass selections each day for each member of your party (ahead of time and/or live). Moderates get 3 and Values get 2. None for offsite-unless you want to pay for this feature. Other than that it would be an invisible change to everyone. Its just that many of the good times for the good rides would be selected "ahead" of time. The computer could limit the times available to for example 1/2 the passes and the rest is running live each day. The point is you could select all of your MK FP's the day (or month) before. That way you could sleep in until your times approach-if you dont show up so what-the stand by line will just move faster. I further suspect at check in you could choose or scroll through the FPC "Fast Pass Channel" on your TV either the days before or during the day and view what passes are available for each ride-if you like the times you could accept them and pick them up at the front desk. Its perfect. How many times are you swimming and suddenly "wonder" what the FP time is for TOT and no way to find out.

[tearawayface]

I too think it will be a convenience benefit for Guests staying on Disney property. Just like Disney's Extra Magic hours and the free Magical express shuttles, disney wants to give value to the guests who stay on property, Disney needs to keep all of those resorts at full occupancy. What better way to give guests value than to give the guests something Disney is giving out for free anyway..fast passes. Depending on which resort guests are eligible for the fastpasses it could deplete the number available for the guests not staying on property, but again Disney's goal is to have a self contained environment where no one is allowed to wander off property and spend $$ elsewhere.

[Frances999]

I would also be willing to pay for FPs but I feel Disney should reward those staying on-site with greater FP benefits. Universal's system of offering Front-of-the-Line access to those staying in on-site hotels is the #1 selling point for the vast majority of guests and Disney could seriously boost their resort occupancy rates if they offered a similar system. However, due to the large number of Disney resorts some sort of system would need to be devised to ensure that there was no over-distribution of fastpasses - in my opinion they distribute too many already.

It is a difficult point of discussion but in my opinion something needs to be done and it will be interesting to find out if/how the fastpass system will be changing.

:wizard:

[Frances999]

I will be staying at Deluxe this June. Does that mean that the Fast Pass will be automatic for me? I was not planning on getting one, I just thought I'd wait in lines. Should I get a FP, even if it's not included in my Deluxe accomodations? Will you please explain to me how the FP works, as I am hopelessly confused? :confused: Thanks!
Using your park admission ticket you can collect FastPass tickets from distribution machines located at the major attractions. The FP tickets have a time slot printed on them, and you need to return during the printed time period to access the fastpass line and beat the regular line. They only issue a certain number of fastpasses per time slot, and one can only hold one fastpass per park admission ticket at a time.

At the moment there is no benefit for guests staying in a WDW resort (deluxe or not). All guests are treated equally in respect to fastpasses and you only need your park admission ticket to get the FP ticket.

[Lewisc]

Disney probably has too many hotel rooms to institute a FOTL type of system like Universal. Instead they have EMH in which the park is just open to resort guests.

[jade1]

Disney probably has too many hotel rooms to institute a FOTL type of system like Universal. Instead they have EMH in which the park is just open to resort guests.

I agree to a point. If they tweak the current system it could work. Example is in a given day TOT will distribute 5000 FP which leaves 5000 stand by riders. Now the day before the WDW Hotel computers can distribute 2500 TOT passes to guests before those are gone, leaving 2500 FP and 5000 stand by for the next day-and most guests will not bother with TOT passes because they already have them etc etc.

[bicker]

Yes, I believe that's exactly what Disney should consider doing, but that's nothing like Universal's FOTL system.

[tchrrx]

Thank you for the explanation! At Six Flags this past summer, the Fast Pass cost extra money per person & I just didn't see the point of it. I didn't realize that WDW has it available to all. Now to see if I can figure out how to implement it so that it is beneficial to me!

[raidermatt]

Sticky situation.

[Lord Fantasius]

Eventually I wouldn't be surprised if Disney went to a total "lineless" pass system. Since Disney knows, within a pretty tight margin of error, how many riders a certain ride can accomodate in a given hour (even accounting for the oocasional breakdown), it wouldn't be that hard to write a program that allows people to create a ride agenda whereby the computer just keeps track of how many people have signed up for a certain 15-minute segment so when somebody requests that time slot it responds that the ride is currently fully reserved or not; somewhere in complexity between a restaurant and an airline reservation system. The system would key off your park admission ticket so you could access it and make changes throughout the day at various terminals throughout the park, or at a given ride.

The benefit for WDW resort guests is that they could set up there ride agenda from resort terminals a day, or days, ahead of time (or eventually either online or through their TV) before non-WDW guests. Maybe even prioritize so that deluxe resort guests can make their agendas a week in advance, moderate 5 days in advance, and value 2 days.

There would always be a small standby line for people to fill in when others don't show up for their reservations, or for those that still want to be sociable, but hey, at least I know if I pay for it, I don't have to stand by anybody I don't want for more than 15 minutes!

Next they'll be selling seating rights to people wanting to watch the fireworks from stadium seats set up in front of the castle.

Not sure whether I like the direction this is heading, but strange that after returning from WDW last February and making a slight comment about the same thing everybody, almost unanimously, stated it'll never happen or it would destroy the atmosphere of Disney, while a couple even suggested that the Fastpass system was just an experiment and they had knowledge that Disney was going to abandon it...umm, what a difference a year makes!

-R

[Kevie]

I think I liked the parks better pre-FASTPASS.

[disneyphanatic1911]

that's interesting!

[Luv2Roam]

IF they went to something like this, my guess is Disney would include it in a package. That way the package buying guests get a little more bang for their buck, and it costs Disney nothing, and promotes packages more.
I could see where they would give out X number of FP's per guest in a package, or allot X number per package guest per day.
And they could go into tier packages.
Silver or Platinum package buyers receive more FPs than those in a basic package.
:confused3

[Lord Fantasius]

IF they went to something like this, my guess is Disney would include it in a package. That way the package buying guests get a little more bang for their buck, and it costs Disney nothing, and promotes packages more.
I could see where they would give out X number of FP's per guest in a package, or allot X number per package guest per day.
And they could go into tier packages.
Silver or Platinum package buyers receive more FPs than those in a basic package.
:confused3
Then you would have to figure AP-holders allotment and any tie-in with the Dining Plan...not to mention whether the FP's could be transferred or sold on ebay.

And people thought MYW tickets were confusing...

-R

[jade1]

Then you would have to figure AP-holders allotment and any tie-in with the Dining Plan...not to mention whether the FP's could be transferred or sold on ebay.

And people thought MYW tickets were confusing...

-R

Why would AP holders receive this when its a perk to stay onsite (unless they are staying onsite)? AP holders at US dont receive FOTL unless they stay on site do they? Not sure what the dining plan has to do with it (not sure what the dining plan is actually). They could limit planning to the day before to avoid ebay, I dont see transferring a big deal as it happens all day long currently anyway.

[bicker]

I also don't see a need for an AP tie-in. AP holders cannot take advantage of EMH, or any of a host of other benefits. APs are considered to be pretty substantial discounts, in themselves, and I doubt they need to enhance the value of APs very often, since doing so often causes a consequent decrease in revenues for park hoppers. It's a pretty well-buffered system.

I do, however, see a logical tie-in to the Dining Plan, or at least to packages in general. Generally, packages are perceived as being "better financial deals" than buying things separately. That has not been the case with WDW vacation packages, many times in the past. I could see adding extra FastPass privileges as a way of masking the differential -- you cannot put a price on it, so even if the package costs more than its separable parts (which, again, has been the case in the past at WDW), it still could be perceived as a significant value due to the FastPass privileges.

That worries me, though. Although, once it is introduced, I would surely consider the Dining Plan as a DVC member, and of course I wouldn't have a problem with buying tickets and dining together as a DVC member, if the package-connection with regard to FastPasses isn't offered except with full hotel/tickets/dining packages, then DVC members might be left out in the cold. I surely hope that wouldn't happen.

Yeah! 9400 messages!

[jade1]

Thanks Bicker, I still dont get the dining thing, mayebe you could clarify. If you reserve a Deluxe hotel you would get 4 FP (mod 3 etc) selections no matter what package you come in on-how would it matter?

Also as far as ebay, you could make your selctions weeks or months ahead but could not pick up the tickets until you check in-meaning nothing could be sold on ebay.

[bicker]

I don't think anyone, not even Disney, knows how the numbers would work out yet, jade1.

[Lord Fantasius]

If you couldn't tell, my post was partly in jest to show the absurdity of the logical ultimate extension to the program once Disney moves away from the current system (which I'm still not comfortable with).

I have very little desire to program my days at Disney to such a degree of detail that I have to worry about missing a ride appt. because my daughter wants to enjoy her ice cream cone or see Cindy for 5 extra minutes. It's bad enough that people here seem to think you can't enjoy Disney unless you have an hourly itinerary for every day you're on property. Maybe because I'm older now, but WDW seemed much simpler and more relaxing when there were only two parks, three hotels, and the campground (with no TV's blaring either). Yeah, mom baking apple pie and family's holding hands where nice touches as well (did I get the music cue right?)

-R

[jade1]

For us its a simliar situation that this would help with, what is worse than rushing through an ice cream cone at B&C to make a FP at Test Track, is slowly eating an ice cream cone then walking over to Test Track to see a 2 hour wait and all the FP's gone for the day. This way you can plan to sleep in (if thats your desire like my teens) and totally take your time (spend 3 hours eating your cone) all day to finally arrive between 6 an 7PM for TOT for example.

Talk about rushing, we have gone to EPCOT at opening and stood in line at spring break to get a Test Track FP for noon. This way you simply select a 1PM to 2PM Test Track (if thats what you want) the night before and enjoy the entire moring.

Besides, these are FP's, if your having a great time swimming or something-you dont have to use them. You just have a slot if you want it.

[raidermatt]

Besides, these are FP's, if your having a great time swimming or something-you dont have to use them. You just have a slot if you want it.
Which actually adds another logistical issue... the further in advance guests are allowed to get FP's, the less likely they are to actually use them, and therefore the harder it becomes for Disney to manage the process.

It seems to me that not showing up for your FP time would have a similar effect to not showing up for an ADR, though on a somewhat smaller scale. The issuance of that FP meant somebody else didn't get a FP who wanted one, and then had to wait in a standby line if they wanted to get on the ride. Just as the ADR kept somebody else from getting the ADR and going standby.

All that said, though, the implication from the guide is only that the process will remain free for Deluxe guests. That very well could mean the program would remain unchanged for Deluxe guests. Their park tickets would be coded to use the FP system just as its used today. Others, including those in Mods and Values, might be able to use the system also, but only by paying.

All of these other things, like issuing FPs a day or more in advance, would significantly increase the difficulty in managing and programming the system, and also don't necessarily fit in with what the guide said.

I always thought the easiest way to give certain guests an advantage (whatever subset that might be) would be to allow them to use the system without the 2 hour minimum wait. That would seem to be easier to manage and program, and would still be a fairly significant advantage.

Of course, whatever is done, if any extra advantages are given to Deluxe guests, then there is a corresponding disadvantage to others, in this case off-site guests, as well as Value and Moderate guests. If you increase the value of the Deluxe resorts in this way, you are decreasing the value of the Values, Mods, as well as the value of the park for off-site guests.

The point being, its not an automatic win/win.

Further, whenever you begin charging for something that has been free, especially something touted as free for so long, you run certain obvious risks.

All of this is what I mean by a sticky situation.


Sort of a tangent here, but its interesting that Disney feels there maybe a need to revise the way FP is marketed/sold/used. The financial justification behind it was that it would take people out of lines and put them into stores/restaurants, as well as decrease guest complaints about long lines.

It would seem that if it were successful in achieving those goals, then changing it in the ways described would seriously jeopardize that success.

But as we know, not everything works out as planned...

[Lord Fantasius]

Clearly and well-said, raidermatt...

-R

[jade1]

Those are some good points and you can be sure Disney will look at all these issue as well.

Many folks already do not use FP they obtained earlier in the day, we are still talking about the exact same number of FP's given as there is now so how is it any different? Also it simply increases the standby line speed when someone doesn't show up. Do you honestly think so many people would not show up that the rides would sit empty? I am pretty sure more FP's would be used this way than the old way. Countless times we get a FP for an attraction for say...4PM and sure enough since we have been there all day, everyone is tired and wants to back and swim or rest so we can come back for a night show (this is an example) and we toss them out. This way we dont waste the whole day walking around earlier than we wanted and can plan when to go to the park after swimming or whatever.

Take this example for tomorrow since its XMAS week. I guarantee there are guests going to bed tonight after another long day at a park and everyone is shot. They all want to do EPCOT tomorrow and they also want to stay for Illuminations. Guess what, they also want to do TT and Soarin.

A) Good thing we grabbed a 3PM Soarin and a 4PM TT, lets just sleep in, swim, grab some lunch and head over at 2:30 totally refreshed, go on these rides (maybe a few standby) grab a bite to eat and watch Illuminations.

B) Lets do our best to get going again (please Dad let me sleep) if we get in between 9AM and 10AM, we should be able to get a FP for TT around 3, then eventually drag ourselves over to Soarin and get a FP for around, oh there all gone already? Well what should we do until 3 that wont make us too tired? Then really kill ourselves waiting for Illuminations. Then get up again Saturday because its MGM day. Oh Joy.

Also why would Disney charge any onsite guests for this privelage? It sounded like Deluxe would get more FP's (maybe 4), then Moderate (maybe 3), then Value (maybe 2). That is win-win unless you stay offsite. No cost at all to anyone except maybe offsite guests that want to pay for it-just like US.

[Lord Fantasius]

Admittedly, I like the idea of being able to control when I can return instead of just receiving the next available opening at the FP machine...really, I don't want to return at 2:30pm just so I can ride one ride. So in that sense it would/should control the crowds a little more. However, I'm not sure how that would effect the standby line time wait any. Does anyone know what percentage of a ride's capacity is alloted for FP's?

And this could give rise to a new business opportunity for Disney setting up an FP exchange table at the entrance for people to swap unwanted/unused FP's.

Unfortunately, there's no way to stop all possible abuses, but thank goodness; would hate to have an eye-scan at every corner just to enjoy the most magical place on earth!

-R

[jade1]

Admittedly, I like the idea of being able to control when I can return instead of just receiving the next available opening at the FP machine...really, I don't want to return at 2:30pm just so I can ride one ride. So in that sense it would/should control the crowds a little more. However, I'm not sure how that would effect the standby line time wait any. Does anyone know what percentage of a ride's capacity is alloted for FP's?

And this could give rise to a new business opportunity for Disney setting up an FP exchange table at the entrance for people to swap unwanted/unused FP's.

Unfortunately, there's no way to stop all possible abuses, but thank goodness; would hate to have an eye-scan at every corner just to enjoy the most magical place on earth!

-R

I agree, I just hope it has a chance, and only if its tested thoroughly. See thats a great idea, exchange area if you want something earlier or later of unused FP's. Also if someone set up an vacation and cancelled, the computer could simply put all of those times back in for the regular system live.

[Steamboat Bill]

Remember that FastPasses only work on a few rides unlike Universal where a room key gets you to the front line for almost every ride.

[dbm20th]

This is tough to say. I think it makes good sense to give it free to those staying at a WDW resort. It keeps the hardcores happy and adds insentive to stay on property. If not, certainly Deluxe and DVC should not pay for this service.

Having said that, they have made a real push for this service and turning around and charging for it seems like a risky PR move. Are FP lines getting too big? If so, they really don't have a choice.

[susie2]

hi, would the swan and dolphin be included as well they are deluxe hotels, but not owned by disney!! susie2

[Planogirl]

Also, what about Downtown Disney?

I think that the system can still be worked as it was prior to FP days. We tested the old touring plans a bit and they're still pretty good. I doubt that would change much even with a new FP system so staying offsite would just require getting up early.

I will say that I would stay offsite before staying in a moderate or value if guests of these resorts have to pay for FP. I see no sense in paying extra just for a smelly bus.

[DemoBri1]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to some of the ramblings in Birnbaum's. I mean they actually had in their 2005 guide that the popular Beaches and Cream shop at YC/BC had been closed down.

This may be Disney's way of floating an idea to see what reaction it would get without publicly making a statement on their own.

[MsMoneyPenny]

I do think this is a good idea but a bit hard on those staying in values and moderates who also have paid good money to stay onsite. Also, what about the scenario of people who pay the rack rate for a moderate against someone who has paid a heavily discounted rate at a deluxe, thus the person who is staying at a moderate has actually paid more for their room/package than the person who is staying in the discounted room/package at the deluxe. If this is the case perhaps it should be the full rack rate deluxe guest who can take advantage of the 'new' FP system.

[bicker]

what about the scenario of people who pay the rack rate for a moderate against someone who has paid a heavily discounted rate at a deluxeThat's not a quandary. It is well-established throughout the travel and hospitality industry that the amenities are associated with the grade of the service, not with the price paid. For example, elite frequent fliers who upgrade to First Class seats on an airplane using their elite status get the same meals and the same attention as folks who paid for those seats. Similarly, folks who pay top-dollar for a top-notch hotel room get the same benefits and service as those who are staying on a discounted rate. Also, restaurants provide the same quality food and service, regardless of whether the patron is using a discount card, such as Entertainment or DDE.

[MsMoneyPenny]

Another option of course would be like others have said to return to the pre fast pass days, then again maybe not, especially when I think back to going Easter one year and standing in line for over 90 minutes :faint:

[ksmith1960]

I think that in the very near future only guest staying at the world will be allowed fastpasses. That way Disney gets extra money from the increased occupancy rate at its hotels.

[jade1]

I do think this is a good idea but a bit hard on those staying in values and moderates who also have paid good money to stay onsite. Also, what about the scenario of people who pay the rack rate for a moderate against someone who has paid a heavily discounted rate at a deluxe, thus the person who is staying at a moderate has actually paid more for their room/package than the person who is staying in the discounted room/package at the deluxe. If this is the case perhaps it should be the full rack rate deluxe guest who can take advantage of the 'new' FP system.

They would not pay anything either. They would just get "fewer" selections. Maybe 2 for Value and 3 for moderate at "NO CHARGE", Deluxe would get 4. Simple.

[Planogirl]

If they allow the onsite hotel guests too many FastPasses and don't allow the offsite guests any, it could end up being a nightmare for the offsite guests; both those staying in hotels and locals. I don't agree with this elitist policy and won't be forced to stay onsite at any price just to be able to ride attractions in a timely way. That's just me but maybe others will feel this way too?

[bicker]

There is no question that any policies such as those we're discussing in this thread would have impact on both those who benefit and those who don't. They'll also have corresponding impact on the purchasing decisions of those folks. The best answer would be the policy for which the positive impact on the purchasing decisions of those who benefit most out-weighs the negative impact on the purchasing decisions of those who don't benefit. With respect, this isn't "elitism," but rather capitalism.

[jade1]

If they allow the onsite hotel guests too many FastPasses and don't allow the offsite guests any, it could end up being a nightmare for the offsite guests; both those staying in hotels and locals. I don't agree with this elitist policy and won't be forced to stay onsite at any price just to be able to ride attractions in a timely way. That's just me but maybe others will feel this way too?

For sure many folks feel that way. This summer we are going to WDW and are going over to US for 1 day. We are not staying at a US hotel and we DO NOT get FOTL at all as they do-is this a nightmare for me? No, I will either rent a room for one day and not use it at all (like we did last year) or just wait like everyone else-its my "choice".

Secondly the computer system will not allow all the FP for each ride to be prebooked. Maybe its 1/2 leaving the standby lines the same as they are currently and the "live" fp's will dispense at a faster rate but many on site guests will not be in those lines since they are pre set up.

At the very least this could be pre tested by starting with 1 on site hotel for a month for example and add one each month if it is going well. If they picked a slow season and a hotel that historically is not sold out that month it would certainly show if there is any interest in this plan and how full that hotel was compared to the rest.

[jade1]

The more I think about this (other than super busy weeks), even off site guests should benefit from this. Think about it, this is done at no extra charge to anyone. If the on site guests have 2, 3 or 4 FP's scheduled for the next day, most are not going to kill themselves to get to the park right away because there is no reason to anymore. Therefore the offsite guests (even though the FP times will increment faster) can arrive to much smaller lines and a much more relaxing day-again at no extra charge to them. Also the stanby lines have to be smaller. The onsite guest is not as likely to go stand in line for long with these FP's in their pockets.

If I am a typical onsite guest (maybe I am way off the norm), and I have reserved a 4PM Splash, a 5PM BTM and a 6PM SpaceM, you will not have to deal with me (us) at all except for 3 5 minute intervals at these rides. We would then grab some dinner and wait for Wishes and Spectro. We wont even show up until 2:30 that day-leaving the first 6 hours of the park and the last 4hours to everyone else-weve doen what we want.

[raidermatt]

No, the bottom line for offsite guests in your scenario is that there will be fewer FPs available on a sameday basis, which will not benefit off-site guests.

Further, I highly doubt that being able to get a few FPs is going to keep any kind of significant number of guests out of the parks early in the day. Being able to get a FP is not what drives the majority of guests to arrive when they do.

Further, if this actually did keep off-site guests out of the parks, that would probably not be the result Disney was looking for. Certainly they don't want guests lounging at their pool instead of buying churros and turkey legs.

I'm not saying they won't do this. I'm only saying that I don't think the benefits you are looking at are going to be big for that many people.

All that said, however, the only thing the guide hinted at was that all but Deluxe guests may find themselves being charged for FP later this year. Nothing about actually adding benefits for Deluxe guests.

[seashoreCM]

Secondly the computer system will not allow all the FP for each ride to be prebooked. Maybe its 1/2 leaving the standby lines the same as they are currently and the "live" fp's will dispense at a faster rate but many on site guests will not be in those lines since they are pre set up. .
Only if guests who prebook fast passes are prohibited from fetching additional fast passes from the machines for some time interval, for example two hours per pre-booked fast pass (five minutes for the Lights Motors fast pass which normally can be fetched about five minutes before or after another fast pass).

After reading other recent accounts of enforcement problems in the fast pass lines, I must say that paying for fast pass can be expected. It costs money to run the fast pass lines, machines, and system. By now Disney has a handle on how much that cost is. A cost per fast pass may be added as a starting point with various discounts to resort guests. Having fast pass brings back all of the costs of collecting separate admissions or coupons for each ride which Disney and most other amusement parks did up until the 1980's time frame.

'Wanna' find out what FOTL (front of the line Universal style for resort guests) would look like at Disney? Just go to any extra magic hour session, preferably in the evening.

[macraven]

gee, i didn't read about this in the birbaums book, i read it on line.
it was jim hill media that did the article and talked about the patent disney applied for march 05 i believe.

i had no idea it was in the disney book about the possibility of charge for the fast pass.

maybe someone will post the link here for that article.

[raidermatt]

It's not from an article, its from the Birnbaum "Official" WDW guide, published in October. If memory serves, its on page 5, but I don't have my copy with me.

It simply says that FP is currently free, but that may change in 2006 for all but Deluxe resort guests.

Since Birnbaum is the only "official" guide, the statement carries some weight and is more than simply random speculation. But again, all it says is that all but Deluxe resort guests maybe charged.

[jade1]

No, the bottom line for offsite guests in your scenario is that there will be fewer FPs available on a sameday basis, which will not benefit off-site guests.

Further, I highly doubt that being able to get a few FPs is going to keep any kind of significant number of guests out of the parks early in the day. Being able to get a FP is not what drives the majority of guests to arrive when they do.

Further, if this actually did keep off-site guests out of the parks, that would probably not be the result Disney was looking for. Certainly they don't want guests lounging at their pool instead of buying churros and turkey legs.



Thanks raidermatt. I guess you could be right, but not for sure. I can only say for sure our situation. If I have 2,3 or 4 FP for a park, we WILL NOT be arriving at all early to that park. We truly arrive early to any park for one reason only-to go on attractions that within an hour or two of opening become 60 to 90 minute waits-PERIOD. Its not to watch other folks, get anything to eat, smell the warm FL morning air or wear ourselves out early for the day. If we can go on one and obtain FP's for others-thats what we do. With these in our pockets we would sleep in (I know thats just us with teens), grab breakfast and take our time (maybe even swim first) and accomplish the exact same result totally refreshed.

[bicker]

Hmmm... "that may change" -- I cannot see how such a statement can be anything other than absolutely true. Saying that something may change isn't saying very much at all.

[YoHo]

Sure it's significant. If it hasn't at least come up as a significant possibility, then the guide wouldn't say anything at all.

[raidermatt]

Hmmm... "that may change" -- I cannot see how such a statement can be anything other than absolutely true. Saying that something may change isn't saying very much at all.


Yes, very true. They cannot be any more or less wrong than if they said nothing at all.

But as YoHo points out, the significance to this as opposed to it being in any other guide is that this is the "official" guide, meaning its done with Disney's cooperation. Again, certainly that doesn't mean anything will definitely change.

With these in our pockets we would sleep in (I know thats just us with teens), grab breakfast and take our time (maybe even swim first) and accomplish the exact same result totally refreshed.

That's fine. Sounds very relaxing. But you also have to ask yourself if this is something Disney would be happy about. Believe me, I'm with you, that if you are that much happier about your total experience, that's probably a very good thing, because you'll be willing to pay more for your room and visit more often.

But at the same time, many of the people in the parks DO spend money while they are wandering from ride to ride, and we know that Disney is very concerned about maximizing this kind of spending.

Perhaps they will make these kinds of changes. I'm just saying its not a simple decision for them, even if they have the technology ready to go.

[macraven]

It's not from an article, its from the Birnbaum "Official" WDW guide, published in October. If memory serves, its on page 5, but I don't have my copy with me.

It simply says that FP is currently free, but that may change in 2006 for all but Deluxe resort guests.

Since Birnbaum is the only "official" guide, the statement carries some weight and is more than simply random speculation. But again, all it says is that all but Deluxe resort guests maybe charged.


raidermatt, i am confused. i just sent you the link to the article that i was mentioning. it is not from the birnbaum book.
i read about this on another board and just don't know if it is true about disney and their future with the fast pass system.
i didn't want to post here in case i am talking about the wrong thing. nothing like having hundreds of people laugh at you when you make boo boos.......lol.......and i make many mistakes i trying to post sometimes.

[jade1]

[QUOTE=raidermatt]
That's fine. Sounds very relaxing. But you also have to ask yourself if this is something Disney would be happy about. Believe me, I'm with you, that if you are that much happier about your total experience, that's probably a very good thing, because you'll be willing to pay more for your room and visit more often.

But at the same time, many of the people in the parks DO spend money while they are wandering from ride to ride, and we know that Disney is very concerned about maximizing this kind of spending.
QUOTE]

Its a concern and Disney will know whats the best route.

I cant quite follow the spending ride to ride theory though. You are comparing someone staying off site (lost revenue from the room, and going off site every time they go to their room is taking spending power away from Disney) to someone staying onsite (Room Revenue) and spending all of their money at Disney Resorts-breakfast/lunch/snacks/shopping- and heading in daily to the Disney Parks (partly because of this great perk) for ticket revenue and the rest of their spending dollar, plus willing to pay more for the room and visit more often.

[Lord Fantasius]

One of the big problems would be making ARR's (Advance Ride Reservations) prior to arriving at your resort. Plus, Disney would have to work out whether your FP limit is based on the resort you were staying when you made the ARR or the resort you are staying the night of their use.

Right now ADR's are non-discriminatory with regard to whether you are staying on property or off, with the only distinction for those staying concierge. In addition to your ticket, then, ARR's would have to be tied to a specific room key as well to verify resort occupancy when making the reservation.

Umm...could just see it now, "Please insert you room key into slot A, next, insert your Ticket you will be using into slot B...sorry, if you do not have either a resort key or ticket we will be unable to verify FP user with resort stay and therefore are unable to make an ARR for you!"

-R

[SoCalKDG]

Umm...could just see it now, "Please insert you room key into slot A, next, insert your Ticket you will be using into slot B...sorry, if you do not have either a resort key or ticket we will be unable to verify FP user with resort stay and therefore are unable to make an ARR for you!"

-RAll you need is your Room Key. You have the ARR coded directly to that key. Choose a couple FP's the night before, encode your room key at the hotel. Get to the park, go to appropriate FP machine anytime before your reservation, stick your room key in, out comes the appropriate FP ticket with your reserved time on it. Simple.

[bicker]

Right now ADR's are non-discriminatory with regard to whether you are staying on property or offHowever, it wasn't always that way. Back when PS was limited to resort guests only, guests were able to make PSs on day of arrival and day of departure.

In addition to your ticket, then, ARR's would have to be tied to a specific room key as well to verify resort occupancy when making the reservation.Which is why most folks have their admission placed onto their room keys.

[jade1]

All you need is your Room Key. You have the ARR coded directly to that key. Choose a couple FP's the night before, encode your room key at the hotel. Get to the park, go to appropriate FP machine anytime before your reservation, stick your room key in, out comes the appropriate FP ticket with your reserved time on it. Simple.

Sure, or you pick up your FP's when you check in (the same little printed ones you currently get) with Ride/Date/Time on them, if you do any the night before or even the morning of (like from your room TV-which is basically just putting a FP machine in your room electronically and it would know how many FP's that room has already reserved and how many it has left per day), you still could just pick them up at the front desk. That would also verify which hotel you ultimately are staying in etc.

[zagafi]

However, it wasn't always that way. Back when PS was limited to resort guests only, guests were able to make PSs on day of arrival and day of departure.

Which is why most folks have their admission placed onto their room keys.

Except for those pesky Annual Passholders and their ilk.

[Lord Fantasius]

Which is why most folks have their admission placed onto their room keys.
But that only works if you purchase admission to coincide with your stay at a resort; it doesn't work if you have a ten-day non-expiring pass and you're only using days 4 - 8 during a stay, does it?

All you need is your Room Key. You have the ARR coded directly to that key. Choose a couple FP's the night before, encode your room key at the hotel. Get to the park, go to appropriate FP machine anytime before your reservation, stick your room key in, out comes the appropriate FP ticket with your reserved time on it. Simple.
But you would either need to do this from the resort you are staying or somehow have a passcode that would allow any terminal to authorize the no. of ARR's you are allowed. Scenario - a person is staying at POP but is having dinner at Boma, he realizes he wants to make an ARR for Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, and Soarin' for the next day; how does the computer know he's only allowed 2 ARR's and not give him all three?

Booking through your room TV sounds about the simplest way to go...

However, it wasn't always that way. Back when PS was limited to resort guests only, guests were able to make PSs on day of arrival and day of departure.
Remember the phone banks at the base of SE where you could call and make PS's? I don't think we realized you could make them if you aren't at a park already, though I do remember only resort guests could make PS's for a different day.

[raidermatt]

macraven, sorry, I think I misunderstood what you were asking the first time. There are two basic "sources" for the speculation. One is Jim Hill's article from back in May.

Jim Hill on pay for FP (http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1449)

The other is the blurb in the Birnbaum book.

What exactly IS Disney going to change and how? We don't know. Jim Hill says to look for it in '07, but he's certainly been wrong before, and even his article acknowledges that Disney has concerns about making FP a perk for only the "upper level" guests.

The Birnbaum guide just makes a generic statement about the possibility of all being charged but Deluxe guests.

Obviously there is a basis for the speculation. There's sort of two issues. One is adding different ways of getting FPs, like through your TV in your resort room, over your cell phone, or on the internet.

The other issue is whether a hierarchical system will be implemented, where certain guests, like those staying in Deluxe resorts, get increased access to the system while other guests, like off-site and Value/Mod resort guests, get decreased access.

Whether either will actually be implemented, or should be implemented, is anybody's guess at this point, hence the discussion.

You are comparing someone staying off site (lost revenue from the room, and going off site every time they go to their room is taking spending power away from Disney) to someone staying onsite (Room Revenue) and spending all of their money at Disney Resorts-

What I'm comparing is somebody staying on-site and spending money in the park all day vs. somebody staying on-site and lounging in the pool for half the day. Not that anything is wrong with either, or even that Disney wants to get rid of either. I'm just saying they will have serious concerns about doing anything that might move people from the first category to the second.

[Lord Fantasius]

What I'm comparing is somebody staying on-site and spending money in the park all day vs. somebody staying on-site and lounging in the pool for half the day. Not that anything is wrong with either, or even that Disney wants to get rid of either. I'm just saying they will have serious concerns about doing anything that might move people from the first category to the second.
But Disney also knows that you can't force people into the parks every minute of every day they are on property or they will be burn out too quickly and leave WDW before their allotted 8.5 days are up (or whatever magical no. Disney has calculated to be the optimal stay). Outside of meals (which really aren't that overwhelmingly profitable), Disney makes their biggest profit from cheap snacks, souvenir sales, and alcohol. If I was being cynical and negative, I might have to admit that attractions are becoming a means to an end instead of the end purpose itself.

Unless they give some huge incentive to resort guests like deeply discounted park admission added to, and good for either the day before or after your room stay, Disney can maximize a person's stay on property for only so long...eventually most of us have to get back to reality or run out of money. And if Disney increases their resort prices too much, even with all the added benefits, most people will start figuring it's cheaper to stay offsite at almost half the cost of a Disney property and add a couple more "leisurely" days of parks, than try to cram everything into the fewer days a person can afford because they are on property.

Admittedly, right now Disney is drawing people away from other attractions/resorts in the area, but one misstep by increasing rates too quickly or starting to charge for amenities that were once free could halt that rate quickly. I don't know what the percentage is but not everyone going to WDW are lifers or DISers and if they have a bad experience because they don't know all the "ins" they won't return and all Disney has in the end created is a resort complex for long-term followers, or DVC'ers.

FP is simple at the moment and people that use it definitely like it, but will they pay for it, in whatever guise it's presented, is another matter...

-R

[raidermatt]

Just remember, Disney has promised double digit earnings growth.

[Peter Pirate]

Of course they have Matt, who would be happy in the 21st Century with a 1% growth perdiction?
pirate:

[YoHo]

I think plenty of people would be happy with 9% growth though, or a long term plan that saw significant growth a year or two from now...

[bicker]

Remember the phone banks at the base of SE where you could call and make PS's? I don't think we realized you could make them if you aren't at a park already, though I do remember only resort guests could make PS's for a different day.Yes, that's what I meant: Only resort guests could make advance PS reservations, but were allowed to do so for both their day of arrival and day of departure.

[raidermatt]

Of course they have Matt, who would be happy in the 21st Century with a 1% growth perdiction?


Where did I say 1% would be satisfactory? In ANY century?

Regardless, the best projection is one you can meet while keeping your business in the best place for future growth/success.

The point with the parks being 10% growth might not fit that criteria, particularly when you are trying to limit capital investment, and 6.5% attendance growth is considered a great year.

[ltp74]

I thought the whole point of the Fastpass system was to keep people out of lines and in shops and buying snacks? If they go to a pay or resort guest only system that is going to put people back in lines and there will be more people in line than ones willing to pay $20 per person to use Fastpass and that would bring the snack and shop revenue down. If Disney goes to a everyone must stay on property and all off-site guests are 2nd class attitude they are going to lose alot of customers and drive away ones who maybe make a few visit's in a lifetime and can't or don't want to stay in a Disney resort.

[jade1]

I thought the whole point of the Fastpass system was to keep people out of lines and in shops and buying snacks? If they go to a pay or resort guest only system that is going to put people back in lines and there will be more people in line than ones willing to pay $20 per person to use Fastpass and that would bring the snack and shop revenue down. If Disney goes to a everyone must stay on property and all off-site guests are 2nd class attitude they are going to lose alot of customers and drive away ones who maybe make a few visit's in a lifetime and can't or don't want to stay in a Disney resort.

Pretty sure it was also introduced as a "convenience" in the parks to entice new visitors as well as keep many folks coming back because of this new improved system. Allowing folks to spend money while waiting is also a good reason as you suggest. The new system will still dispense FP's in the parks just as it does now so it wont effect offsite guests as much as you think and may very well help them with fewer onsite guests in the lines to obtain a FP. That said the new "improved convenience" would entice offsite guests to stay onsite and capture all of thier spending dollars. Snack and shop revenue may go down in the parks (it may go up if this is popular enough to help fill the parks) but will increase in the resorts.

[bicker]

I thought the whole point of the Fastpass system was to keep people out of lines and in shops and buying snacks? If they go to a pay or resort guest only system that is going to put people back in linesAlmost assuredly not. Any change would probably be, at worst, a zero-sum proposition, moving a FastPass from one guest to another -- not vaporizing FastPasses that would have otherwise existed.

In other words, the number of guests using FastPass wouldn't change; the number of guests using Stand By queues wouldn't change. The only thing that may change is precisely which guests are where.

If Disney goes to a everyone must stay on property and all off-site guests are 2nd class attitude they are going to lose alot of customersAgain, almost assuredly not, since there are already even stronger prioritizations afforded to Disney resort guests over off-site guests than the rumored FastPass prioritization would be, including EMH, free Disney Transportation, the priority Disney Transportation has over off-site hotel transportation, etc.

[Lord Fantasius]

Again, almost assuredly not, since there are already even stronger prioritizations afforded to Disney resort guests over off-site guests than the rumored FastPass prioritization would be, including EMH, free Disney Transportation, the priority Disney Transportation has over off-site hotel transportation, etc.
The difference here is that once a guest entered the park, the "class" of service a person received was indiscriminatory (well, at least theoretically). Mentally, I think a distinction can be made between the level of service an onsite guest receives and what an offsite guest receives in regards to "supporting services," i.e., transportation, no. of hours in a park, etc., can be relegated to "outside the gates" since during the magic hours of 9:00am and midnight everybody was pretty much treated the same within the walls.

If Disney does go to a prior-day ride reservation system for on-site guests, what's next, special seating in the Tiki Room? Larger Dole Whips? Separate bathrooms?

-R

[YoHo]

I'd be all for larger dole whips.



Having said that, you make an excellent point. Until now, Onsite perks can be said to exist only up to the park gate. Once in the park, all guests are equals.

[bicker]

Sorry, I disagree: EMH as a far greater discrimination: "You there -- you can't go on this ride now, but that person over there can." They don't forcibly eject off-site guests from the park at closing time -- they simply prevent them from going into the attractions.

I understand that folks who typically stay off site are concerned, and even a little upset, about the extending of priority to Disney resort guests. The objective of doing so, though, is specifically to make staying at Disney resorts more attractive. That's a positive trend, IMHO, even at the expense of a limited number of off-site guests deciding to not visit WDW at all. The profit from keeping the hotels full, at very high premiums, is that great.

[YoHo]

but if EMH weren't happening that night, then they still wouldn't be allowed on the rides, but wouldn't be kicked out either.

If we want to go down that path, I'm not entirely sure I like that kind of descrimination with EMH at all. It's different in the mornings when you can keep people from entering the park.

[Another Voice]

what's next, special seating in the Tiki Room?
Don't laugh, that's been talked about - special ride access or reserving the "better" seats for resort guests. But there's greater pressure to bring in more cash than it is for tiny, marginal incentives to stay at a Disney-owned hotel. So for the moment the "special access" has stayed with people willing to fork over the big bucks for 'Fantasmic!' Dinners and the like.

There's also the internal politics of all of this. Each theme park and each resort is operated as if they were an individual business. Each manager's bonus and their accumulation of brownie points are tied to how well their location is doing. The suit running the park doesn't care if you're staying at the Grand Floridian or the Grand Cypress; you're just a wallet to be picked. So it's difficult to get the parks to incurr costs that would only benefit the hotels at the expense of off-site guests.

Early Extraordinary Extra Magically Magical Magic Hours are different because they bring in lots of wallets all at once and increases that day's total attendance. But giving a "free" Fast Pass to someone from the Caribbean Beach Resort and taking it away from the guy staying at The Grand Cypress just means one more ticked-off guest. And it doesn't earn a dime for the park (even though it may cause someone to change hotel plans). Look at what happened to package delivery - it was a big benefit to the resort guests but cost the parks a lot of labor hours to store, sort and deliver all those packages. The parks figured it would save more in costs by cutting the service than it would loose in sales - and who cares about what the resorts think.

[Lord Fantasius]

I guess I see EMH a little differently, then, in that I view it as an open party set aside for resort guests, similar to the cheerleaders renting out MG for a few hours after regular operating hours are over. It doesn't reduce the accessibility of a ride during regular hours for non-resort guests nor did Disney reduce the normal operating hours when they introduced EMH. Effectively, they just apportioned a certain percentage of a resort guest's room cost to cover the expenses of operating a park for those additional hours.

Unlike the cheerleaders' party which kicks everybody out of the park and then lets in only cheerleaders, it would be logistically impossible to do the same every night at one of the parks. Also, I don't think Disney, Inc., wants the non-resort guests out of the parks since they can still spend money for those extra hours. And I think if Disney could regulate the non-resort guests from enjoying the attractions more effectively and limited them to only purchasing food, souvenirs, etc., they would let them in at the same time as resort guests during morning EMH's.

It's strange that even after maintaining the FOL pass system, Universal Studios saw an 8.5% decrease in attendance in 2005 over 2004...umm.

-R

[Lord Fantasius]

Look at what happened to package delivery - it was a big benefit to the resort guests but cost the parks a lot of labor hours to store, sort and deliver all those packages. The parks figured it would save more in costs by cutting the service than it would loose in sales - and who cares about what the resorts think.
When did they cut this???? Gee, a guy doesn't visit WDW for 15 years and then they take away this benefit...I'm stunned!

O.k., seriously, when did they do this? I've been out of the loop for too long obviously!

-R

[raidermatt]

There are similarities with EMH. Some guests will be told they can't ride while they see others can.

But the posted closing time and the way parts of the park do shut down gets most of them out of the park without even knowing there is this special "perk" for some.

Changes like those described with FP would be all the time and any guest who reads any of the promotional materials will know it.

So, when it comes to guests being treated differently, yes, EMH is the greater "discriminator". However, its less "in your face" than some of these FP changes would be.

Regardless, the more of these "discriminatory" practices there are, the greater potential for that to become an issue.

[patsal]

Look at what happened to package delivery - it was a big benefit to the resort guests but cost the parks a lot of labor hours to store, sort and deliver all those packages. The parks figured it would save more in costs by cutting the service than it would loose in sales - and who cares about what the resorts think.


When did this happen? They were still delivering to resorts in December. Or do you mean the fact that they no longer deliver to your room but only to the resort itself?

[annie1995]

If they were to start charging for FP's I would only buy it if were were going during a expected busy time. If we went off season, I would deal with what crowds I encountered.

[YoHo]

nor did Disney reduce the normal operating hours when they introduced EMH.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

I guess I agree that they didn't explicitly reduce normal operating hours when they introduced EMH, but sure as Heck did it implicitly. Look at the operating hours of the Magic Kingdom in particular prior to say 1997, then look at them after. I know E-nights were around in 1999 and not prior to 97. They started closing earlier.

As for package Delivery. I believe for a while non-Deluxe resorts had zero package delivery options. I think they brought parts of that perk back due to uproar.

[jade1]

[QUOTE=raidermatt]
So, when it comes to guests being treated differently, yes, EMH is the greater "discriminator". However, its less "in your face" than some of these FP changes would be.
QUOTE]

I dont see that. How would anyone in the parks know that a FP was obtained "that day" or the day before, or a month ago, other than "they sure seem a lot more happy and refreshed than the rest of us?"

Cant say for sure but I think US attendence went up after the first year(s) of FOTL (although this is not FOTL-its the same FP system WDW has now). The attendence is transferring to WDW because of the new ticket structure and conveniences like this will only distance them further. With DVC and AP discounts, cheaper 7 day passes, Dining Plans, EMH etc-WDW is on a roll and will continue to improve services to dedicated guests and this is just another opportunity they are persuing. They dont just want you to come back and visit the parks again someday and stay offsite. They want to keep you from going "anywhere" else in the world (the real one) and capture all your vacation dollars the rest of your life. :wizard:

[annie1995]

I recieved my mousesavers newsletter today, and it was talking about the new ride expedition everest at AK. I caught this little mention on the FP.

Expedition Everest will feature Disney's FASTPASS, which is offered at no charge to park guests and designed to reduce wait times at popular attractions in all four Walt Disney World Theme Parks.

I wonder if they are changing it to be available to just the resort guests then??!! :confused3 I think universal studios has something similar for their resort guests. I can't say for sure, I haven't been there. Anyway, I just wanted to pass this on.

[littlegreydonkey]

The thing that led me to believe that this is going to happen is the fastpass at the MGM motor show - why do you need a fast pass for a show with huge capacity? Unless you're going to put the people who have one closer to the front as per Universal.

As for how it could work - Universal's system for non resort guests is easy. You buy the ticket and you get one 'fastpass' entry for each attraction that day - you use it whenever you like no set times or pre booking. They keep the waits down by simply letting through as many 'fastpass' holders as they need to to keep it to a 15 minute wait - we used it new years eve and, oddly, it actually made going to a theme park like it used to be before we got obsessed with beating the rush (yes I know, we bought the tickets TO beat the rush, but humour me). There was no running from one side of the park to the next to beat queues, we went on every ride, and we got to sit down with a coffee and relax and look in shops now and again! Disney could have guests pick up their daily ticket as they arrive at their park of choice.

Of course, the fact that Disney are putting in individual fastpass machines at the motor show means it's unlikely they'll be using the one ticket/one entry method, but it seemed to work great at Universal.

[lillygator]

we'd pay for FP's no doubt....! Can't wait til this is implemented!

[seashoreCM]

Expedition Everest will feature Disney's FASTPASS, which is offered at no charge to park guests and designed to reduce wait times at popular attractions in all four Walt Disney World Theme Parks..
This sentence does not preclude offering additional fastpasses to some resort guests and offering some fastpasses for sale.

[disneyfan61]

we'd pay for FP's no doubt....! Can't wait til this is implemented!
Wow. Maybe you would want to pay for it-not me. I'm already paying enough
for my park tickets!!! What part exactly are you hoping they implement?? I hope they don't pick deluxes over mod's & value. I'm sorry-I don't think that would be
right. I think FP is fine just the way it is. We've had no problems using it & I hate it when they start comparing people who stay at deluxes and those that stay at mod's & values-verrrrry touchy subject. :mad:

[micki7337]

Hello

I was just on a few websites that were discussing the same issue of the Paying for FP. So far it is just in discussions on making this a pay feature. and it was in discussions when the birnbaum book was published in October and so far it lloks like there will be NO change as of yet.

[mouseketeer]

That would be GARBAGE.

[Mari annie]

We go to FL 2x's a year to WDW for nearly 2 weeks each time, so I wouldn't buy any fast passes!

Like every other corp they are looking to up their profit margins--
that's what the investors want............

2 weeks and counting
:cool1:

FL :sunny: here I come!!! :cheer2: :moped:

[goalie5hole]

I won't pay.Most of us have been enough that if the line is too long,you don't go on.At least that's how I feel.

[Servants of Evan]

I'd like to see it that FPs are for resort guests only. But I guess I'm just being selfish...

[ely3857]

I really hope Disney dont go down this route, especially if it was decided onsiters were free & offr siters werent.

It bugs me that USF hotel guests get FOTL access & Next available table at restaurants and I have always cheered Disney for not segregating (sp?) their park guests in this way.

:confused3

Jodie

[Kitty-chan]

Hello

I was just on a few websites that were discussing the same issue of the Paying for FP. So far it is just in discussions on making this a pay feature. and it was in discussions when the birnbaum book was published in October and so far it lloks like there will be NO change as of yet.
My understanding (which may be incorrect) is that the Birmbaum's book said that FastPass might be charged for in 2006, but that since then Birmbaum has issued a correction, saying that this is not the case, and that in fact it's Magical Express which there might be a charge for in the future (some future after 2006, apparently).

Of course one can argue that it wasn't a misprint, and that Disney's simply backpedalling. But in either case it doesn't appear that there's a high likelihood of FastPass being charged for in the near future.

[raidermatt]

I'd like to see it that FPs are for resort guests only. But I guess I'm just being selfish...


That's actually a good distinction to make. I stay on-site as well (DVC), so as long as I'm included, it would certainly be a bonus for me.

But that's different than my opinion about what might be best for the resort as a whole. Of course, we don't yet know for sure what they will change, if anything.

I dont see that. How would anyone in the parks know that a FP was obtained "that day" or the day before, or a month ago, other than "they sure seem a lot more happy and refreshed than the rest of us?"

Again, Birnbaum said there maybe a charge for all but deluxe guests. I'm pretty sure that anyone who got FP for free yesterday but has to pay for it tomorrow will notice that.

If its only a case where some guests can get access to FP's in advance, then, no, it would not be nearly as obvious to other guests. It would be very similar to EMH, with one key difference, which would be that EMH is for all resort guests, while the free FP might only be for Deluxe guests. With EMH, its all on-site guests.

My understanding (which may be incorrect) is that the Birmbaum's book said that FastPass might be charged for in 2006, but that since then Birmbaum has issued a correction, saying that this is not the case, and that in fact it's Magical Express which there might be a charge for in the future (some future after 2006, apparently).


The guide does also say that there maybe a charge for Magical Express beginning sometime in 2006. Hadn't heard about a correction to the FP info, but I'm sure somebody will pass it on if its anywhere out there.

[mydisneykids]

My husband and I were just talking about this. We usually add a day on to our WDW stay and stay at the Hard rock, so we can have the universal access. It is great, you show your room key and walk in your own special entrance. We have never waited more that 5 minutes by doing this. We were saying we wish Disney could do something simialar, but with the number of on-site hotels disney has, it may not be as beneficial. We usually stay at BC so I guess it would not apply, but with 3 kids that all have different "must do lists" unless it was a major cost, I would pay for FP's.

[wdwgoofeeee]

I will be staying at Deluxe this June. Does that mean that the Fast Pass will be automatic for me? I was not planning on getting one, I just thought I'd wait in lines. Should I get a FP, even if it's not included in my Deluxe accomodations? Will you please explain to me how the FP works, as I am hopelessly confused? :confused: Thanks!

Currently everyone with a park admission ticket can obtain a Fast Pass. The machines are located near the entrance to the ride. The return time is posted above so you can figure out if it's a good idea to get them. For example, if you go to Soarin' and the FP return time is four hours away you have to decide if you will still be in Epcot in four hours.
FP have nothing to do with staying at a Disney resort, or the level of the resort....at this time anyway.
You simply insert your park ticket into the FP machine and it will give you a FP and your park ticket back.
For more information check out allearsnet.com.

[disneyfan61]

I recieved my mousesavers newsletter today, and it was talking about the new ride expedition everest at AK. I caught this little mention on the FP.

Expedition Everest will feature Disney's FASTPASS, which is offered at no charge to park guests and designed to reduce wait times at popular attractions in all four Walt Disney World Theme Parks.

I wonder if they are changing it to be available to just the resort guests then??!! :confused3 I think universal studios has something similar for their resort guests. I can't say for sure, I haven't been there. Anyway, I just wanted to pass this on.
It says "park" guests not resort guests-meaning it is for anyone in the park whether it be MK, Epcot, AK or MGM. NOT RESORTS!!!

[Future_Imagineer]

Interesting. I had not heard or read about this yet.

[EeyoreFan1]

Well, I look at the second page and there is an explanation of fastpass,then this got my attention..."Fastpass is usually free for guests staying at deluxe Walt Disney World hotels. Other guests may have to pay for it in 2006" :earseek:

Ok that is weird ! I use fastpasses all the time ! THis is not fair ! i will look for the birnbaums book! wow! i hope I stay on Disney Property next time ! :furious:

[Lesley]

The books' information is just wrong though....FastPass isn't "usually free to WDW deluxe resort guests"...its always free to everyone. As far as I know there is no way at the current time to purchase a fastpass (unless there are fastpass scalpers roaming the parks now...."hey buddy, Space Mountain for 3pm...5 bucks" :rotfl2: )

[exDS vet]

...I would be willing to bet that if Disney started charging for Fastpass this summer, everyone out there who uses it and is complaining about the possibility today would not hesitate to pay for it on their next visit. Disney has a hold on all of us and this is just another way they can make a buck. I have no doubt that paying for Fastpass will become a reality. I also have no doubt that it won't reduce the amount of money everyone spends on food, merchandise, etc. while at WDW, expecially for those who stay on the property.

[Peter Pirate]

Nah, Disney won't charge for FP because it would be a PR nightmare...They probably will offer a special FP for sale or available to Deluxe guests or Concierge guests (at an additional cost) soon, IMO.
pirate:

[Colmenares3]

I read (where . . . oh where?) that Len Testa was quoted on some podcast or other quoting B. Sehlinger who had talked to both the Birnbaum folks as well as Disney. His info was that both companies said this information was wrong, a misprint, etc. Hope that's right!

[macraven]

sehlinger made a statement maybe 2 weeks ago that what was printed in his book was an error.

he then retracted it.

so if you have the current birnbaum book, don't let that one statement concern you.

[waltfan1957]

When did they cut this???? Gee, a guy doesn't visit WDW for 15 years and then they take away this benefit...I'm stunned!

O.k., seriously, when did they do this? I've been out of the loop for too long obviously!

-R

we were there in january 06 it was still available then

[JoiseyMom]

Show of hands.........who, as begrudgingly as you might do it, would pay for fastpass if that is what comes to be?

I suppose I would. If I'm dropping five grand on a WDW vacation, I can't see myself letting another couple hundred dollars come between me and maximum enjoyment of my trip. For Disney trips, fastpass has become a drug of choice for many. I can't see going cold turkey. Sure, that may be giving in to Disney and their tactics, but so be it. It's a personal thing, but I don't want to sacrifice my enjoyment to take the moral high ground. I'd do that with many things, but fastpass (which if used wisely is a wonderful thing) just wouldn't be one of them.

Six Flags has a fastpass like system that you have to pay for, done electronically via handhelds. In a heartbeat I'd use it on a trip there, when rides like Kinda Ka can frequently have lines up to 3 hours long.


I live 15 minutes from Six Flags Great Adventure. I wouldn't pay a dime extra for anything in that park. It is such a dive. When my older kids were younger we went for the kiddie rides, then stopped getting season passes. Now my little kids like the kiddie rides and we get the season passes, but we actually don't go that often. The staff there stinks, most of the time the rides are closed (yes even the kiddie rides), because they are way understaffed, and to be perfectly honest, the people they attract to the park make me nervous.

As much as I adore disney, I wouldn't pay more for Fass Pass there.

[Hugpug]

There is no way I pay for it. I don't use it ever. To me I waste more time running back and forth then waiting in line not to mention I be dead tired. Flame me if you like but you ask so that's how I feel.

[jade1]

There is no way I pay for it. I don't use it ever. To me I waste more time running back and forth then waiting in line not to mention I be dead tired. Flame me if you like but you ask so that's how I feel.

Its a fine opinion, just the point of the new system would ELIMINATE the exact reason you say you dont use it. You reserve "ahead" of time, so you can simply stroll up to the attraction and avoid the lines.

[DeluxePrincess]

The greatest thing about staying at Universal is the front of the line privledge. I wish there were some way for Disney to implement this. Perhaps alternating days......Monday= Deluxe FOTL day, Tuesday=Moderates, Wednesday=Value, etc. That way all resort guest could enjoy it. Oh well, just wishful thinking on my part. pixiedust:

[AlmostApril]

I think that Fastpass should be free but only available to guests staying on Disney property. It shouldn't even be made available to others, even if they paid for it.

It's bad enough that the extra magic hours are only for resort guests, and i still see people walking around without wristbands all the time. that makes me mad.

[t-and-a]

It's bad enough that the extra magic hours are only for resort guests, and i still see people walking around without wristbands all the time. that makes me mad.
Those people may be in the parks, but they don't get to ride anything, do they?

[AlmostApril]

Those people may be in the parks, but they don't get to ride anything, do they?

Doesn't matter.

[disneyholic family]

The greatest thing about staying at Universal is the front of the line privledge. I wish there were some way for Disney to implement this. Perhaps alternating days......Monday= Deluxe FOTL day, Tuesday=Moderates, Wednesday=Value, etc. That way all resort guest could enjoy it. Oh well, just wishful thinking on my part. pixiedust:


there are too many onsite guests to make this work (universal has far fewer onsite guests)..

supposedly they're thinking of a system in the future where onsite guests will get a set number of FPs with preset times (that is, the guest will be able to schedule their FP times in advance for a limited number of FPs).....

[jade1]

Actually the alternating days is good discussion. It gives equal opportunity to all onsite guests. On Mondays-Deluxe guests only can pre schedule 4 FPs (for example), Then mods on Tues and Values on Wed. Other than that the FP system could stay the same. If they did want to slightly "reward" deluxe guests, they could have Sun/MON/THUR, Mods TUES/FRI and Valu WED/SAT.

All this at no extra charge, just simple convenience.