Please read, new board policy

[WebmasterAlex]

There is little doubt in my mind by Saturday this will become the hurricane Katrina and Rita board, Texas is about to get hit as bad as New Orleans if not worse.
In recent days this board has become pretty much a constant rehashing of "who's to blame".
That is not going to be particularly helpful to the people who want to tell their stories from Rita, need help, want to locate other Dis'ers etc.
As of the time of this post that is officially over.
If you feel the need to keep debating this there are plenty of places you can do that, we need to start thinking of the victims of Hurricane Rita.
Any further threads or posts on this subject will be deleted without warning and if anyone wants to push the issue they will be invited to post elsewehere.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

[RadioNate]

thanks Alex.

I was just thinking that this will become the Katrina/Rita board.

[C.Ann]

The past few weeks have been crazy - and we're still not through the hurricane season yet.. :( I was just thinking earlier this morning that this eventually could turn into a generic "Hurricane Board.." :(

I wish November 1st would get here SOON!!

[Belle1962]

Found it:

from NOAA:
An average Atlantic hurricane season, which runs from June 1 through November 30, produces 10 named storms in which six become hurricanes, including two major hurricanes with winds of at least 111 mph. The most active hurricane season was in 1933 with 21 storms, followed by 1995 with 19 storms. The most hurricanes in a season was 12 in 1969, and the highest number of major hurricanes was eight in 1950.

[snappy]

Thank you, Alex.

[welovedisneyx4]

Actually, C.Ann, hurricane season doesn't end until November 30! I have paid attention to that b/c we are going to DW over Thanksgiving. We usually go in October and when we first planned for Tgiving, I kind of thought, "well, we shouldn't have to worry about any hurricanes". I am not so sure now.

It is getting kind of scary to me and I don't even live in a specifc hurricane prone area.

My thoughts and prayers go out to those in the hurricanes path! :grouphug:

C.Ann--I wasn't trying to be rude in correcting you- I have just been paying attention to that November 30th date!

[C.Ann]

C.Ann--I wasn't trying to be rude in correcting you- I have just been paying attention to that November 30th date!
---------------

Oh no! The 30th? I think I'm going to have to stop watching the news.. :(

Anyone know how often there have been hurricanes that made landfall in October and November? I've always heard that September was the absolute worst.. Anyone know?

No problem with correcting me.. I like to have accurate information.. :flower:

[Geoff_M]

...and the people said "Amen"!!!

[4nana]

Thank you and very well put Alex!

Some of us have actually stop posting and reading hurricane threads here because of the daggers being shot and beating a dead horse to death. OK, so there's enough blame to go around and what happened was a disgrace to our nation. We're all in this together and hopefully we've learned valuable lessons for much needed improvement for next diasaster. Personally I'd rather spend positive energy on how to help the poor victims. :guilty:

:grouphug: Many prayers to all those in these terribles hurricane's path of fury.

[jgmklmhem]

---------------

Oh no! The 30th? I think I'm going to have to stop watching the news.. :(

Anyone know how often there have been hurricanes that made landfall in October and November? I've always heard that September was the absolute worst.. Anyone know?

No problem with correcting me.. I like to have accurate information.. :flower:

I know in Pensacola when I was a kid we had Halloween postponed a few days due to a Tropical Storm coming on shore OCT 31st. I understand it now but as a 6 or 7yo I was mighty upset I couldn't go out and get candy.

[Jennifer S]

Thank you and very well put Alex!

Some of us have actually stop posting and reading hurricane threads here because of the daggers being shot and beating a dead horse to death. OK, so there's enough blame to go around and what happened was a disgrace to our nation. We're all in this together and hopefully we've learned valuable lessons for much needed improvement for next diasaster. Personally I'd rather spend positive energy on how to help the poor victims. :guilty:

:grouphug: Many prayers to all those in these terribles hurricane's path of fury.


Very well said - I totally agree. I am one of those who stopped coming to this board because of all the blame. I too would rather read on how to help.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

While we're at it..can we please at a standing ovation smiley!

Thanks webmasters!

I was just thinking earlier this morning that this eventually could turn into a generic "Hurricane Board.."


Not saying I'm clairvoyant or anything---but a bunch of us requested this in June. Very very creepy.

C. Ann--September is the peak month...after that the conditions can still create a tropical system...but as the water temps cool....it tapers off a bit. BUt they still happen :(.

[septbride2002]

I am willing to play by the rules, but I have to say that I disagree with this course of action by the moderators.

Thank you,
Amanda

[ducklite]

Thanks Alex--a question--I have the sticky thread at the top with info on how to help and get help. Some of that is specific to Katrina. I'd like to create another one specific to Rita--of course some info will be contained on both. If I do that can you make the second one sticky as well?

Anne

[chadfromdallas]

Any further threads or posts on the this subject will be deleted without warning and if anyone wants to push the issue they will be invited to post elsewehere.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Well that isn't any fun :confused3

[mickeyfan2]

On average only 1 in 3 storms makes landfall in the US. But lately that number is up. September is the peak of the season.

[bsnyder]

I am willing to play by the rules, but I have to say that I disagree with this course of action by the moderators.

Thank you,
Amanda

Ditto

[Tigger_Magic]

I am willing to play by the rules, but I have to say that I disagree with this course of action by the moderators. ::yes::

[Laura]

I don't agree with this. I could understand a no-opinion hiatus for a little while as we give people time for the whole Rita mess to clear, but lately, this board hasn't exactly been busy (there are some threads on the first page that haven't been posted to in several days) and the important stuff is already a sticky at the top.

[WebmasterKathy]

It's not the quantity of posts that's causing the problem here; it's the vitriol and personal attacks contained in them.

[ThAnswr]

I am willing to play by the rules, but I have to say that I disagree with this course of action by the moderators.

Thank you,
Amanda

Adding my "ditto".

[septbride2002]

In recent days this board has become pretty much a constant rehashing of "who's to blame".
That is not going to be particularly helpful to the people who want to tell their stories from Rita, need help, want to locate other Dis'ers etc.
As of the time of this post that is officially over.
If you feel the need to keep debating this there are plenty of places you can do that, we need to start thinking of the victims of Hurricane Rita.
Any further threads or posts on the this subject will be deleted without warning and if anyone wants to push the issue they will be invited to post elsewehere.

With all due respect Kathy, that was not a reason noted above. Not to mention the guidelines Alex posted make it virtually impossible to bring up any type of discussion that will not warrant a deletion of the post. I also do not appreciate the veiled threat of being banned.

Again, I will be more then happy to play by the rules (which means not posting anything at all in regards to Hurricane Katrina and Rita) but I do not agree with this course of action.

~Amanda

[WebmasterKathy]

Actually, read this:

In recent days this board has become pretty much a constant rehashing of "who's to blame".

And that turns into political argument and namecalling. Bottom line, this isn't a political debate board, and the anger and personal attacks have alienated many posters who feel this board is a hostile place.

[septbride2002]

but that does note equal this:

It's not the quantity of posts that's causing the problem here; it's the vitriol and personal attacks contained in them.

~Amanda

[WebmasterAlex]

Well I am sorry to those who disagree. We no longer have a debate board and this is not going to become one. I have posted previously asking people to tone it down and it was not taken seriously.
I don't feel that I made any "veiled" threats at all. I was issueing a clear statement of what would happen to those who did not follow this policy.

[Planogirl]

Well, I do appreciate you explaining your policies. Closing threads all willy-nilly without comment seemed odd to me, to be honest. Also, remember that we're not all rude not even those of us who don't tow the company line as it were.

[PixieDust32]

Thank you and very well put Alex!

Some of us have actually stop posting and reading hurricane threads here because of the daggers being shot and beating a dead horse to death. OK, so there's enough blame to go around and what happened was a disgrace to our nation. We're all in this together and hopefully we've learned valuable lessons for much needed improvement for next diasaster. Personally I'd rather spend positive energy on how to help the poor victims. :guilty:

:grouphug: Many prayers to all those in these terribles hurricane's path of fury.


::yes:: ::yes::

Thank You. Very well said.
Totally agree. I am one of those who stopped coming to this board bcs of the debates and negative comments.

[septbride2002]

Until today I've also stop coming to this board and debating. It is a choice that I have made, and that I feel fine with. I however will not support a policy that limits choice.

~Amanda

[sodaseller]

I have no difficulty with the new policy. This board is provided to us free of charge, and the owner has every right to limit to discussion of any matter, and no one has any real right to feel aggrieved about that limitation, IMO. We are all essentially guests in someone else's home.

What I found offensive was the tone of the condemnation, as if discussing politics was somehow beneath the constitution of those that occupy this space. I happen to enjoy political exchanges, but I understand that most do not. Fair enough. But there is nothing unclean about such discussions. I would argue the opposite - that vigorous political apologetics are the obligation of every citizen in a democracy, especially in times of apparent systemic failure. But I understand that I'm in the minority in that sense, though I strongly believe that is the "correct" position.

Those that claim the greatest offense are often those that have expressed some perceived conventional wisdom of their own only to see it disabused.

[bicker]

I'm glad I got home from work early to day, and had a chance to dig down deeper than I have been recently, to find this thread. I've stopped coming to this board because of the aforementioned blame game -- especially the "vitriol". I, for one, feel that eliminating such negative energy from what is, at least in part, a place to find support, is a significant improvement.
http://www.sheknows.com/graphics/emoticons/perfect10.gif

[chobie]

I have no difficulty with the new policy. This board is provided to us free of charge, and the owner has every right to limit to discussion of any matter, and no one has any real right to feel aggrieved about that limitation, IMO. We are all essentially guests in someone else's home.

What I found offensive was the tone of the condemnation, as if discussing politics was somehow beneath the constitution of those that occupy this space. I happen to enjoy political exchanges, but I understand that most do not. Fair enough. But there is nothing unclean about such discussions. I would argue the opposite - that vigorous political apologetics are the obligation of every citizen in a democracy, especially in times of apparent systemic failure. But I understand that I'm in the minority in that sense, though I strongly believe that is the "correct" position.

Those that claim the greatest offense are often those that have expressed some perceived conventional wisdom of their own only to see it disabused.


Exactly. Well said.

[wuv tigger]

It's not the quantity of posts that's causing the problem here; it's the vitriol and personal attacks contained in them.

I totally agree.

Thanks Mods for keeping up with all the stuff that goes on all the Boards

Judy

[Peter Pirate]

Why do the people offended by the angry posts even open them? Are you folks not able to just say no?

It's clearly a policy of agree or be banned, that's fine by me, but how many people are going to want to discuss Katie Couric's wardrobe or favorite romantic songs for the rest of their lives?

Sodaseller, your post gets a big ditto from me.
pirate:

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Why do the people offended by the angry posts even open them? Are you folks not able to just say no?

It's clearly a policy of agree or be banned, that's fine by me, but how many people are going to want to discuss Katie Couric's wardrobe or favorite romantic songs for the rest of their lives?

Sodaseller, your post gets a big ditto from me.
pirate:


Part of it is--the debates don't start of all that bad..honest inquiries..but then you share your viewpoint--and some have just gotten into namecalling matches.

And if Katie Couric's wardrobe gets destroyed by a hurricane..it might make interesting fodder. :teeth:

[Talking Hands]

---------------

Oh no! The 30th? I think I'm going to have to stop watching the news.. :(

Anyone know how often there have been hurricanes that made landfall in October and November? I've always heard that September was the absolute worst.. Anyone know?

No problem with correcting me.. I like to have accurate information.. :flower:

Yes, there have been hurricanes which made landfall in October and November. We're not out of the woods yet. September is the worst. Oct 1950 Hurricane King hit Miami directly and in late 30's the Yankee hurricane hit Miami in November.

[Free4Life11]

I'm confused....am I allowed to post the following article or does it go on the community board or not at all??

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=hurricanes&id=3468329

I certainly think it's newsworthy and discussion worthy, but I'm afraid it might be too "critical" to post....I'm confused, are only good news stories allowed or what?

[Planogirl]

I'm confused....am I allowed to post the following article or does it go on the community board or not at all??

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=hurricanes&id=3468329

I certainly think it's newsworthy and discussion worthy, but I'm afraid it might be too "critical" to post....I'm confused, are only good news stories allowed or what?
That article is VERY negative and likely to cause all kind of debate. If I'm reading the new policies right that article wouldn't be allowed.

[Free4Life11]

Ok. I'm not really getting this new policy...no debate, no negativity....then what do we have this board for? If many of the posts were debate, then this policy would cut down on them and there wouldn't be a need for this board...??

Now what happens if there is a DIS'er who is in Texas and was evacuating and is pissed...LOL...can they post about their experiences??


.....jk

[rcyannacci]

I'm confused....am I allowed to post the following article or does it go on the community board or not at all??

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=hurricanes&id=3468329

I certainly think it's newsworthy and discussion worthy, but I'm afraid it might be too "critical" to post....I'm confused, are only good news stories allowed or what?

My guess is that you would be able to post it (since it's primarily factual and from the associated press), but no one would then be able to react to it.

Or maybe not?

Sort of shuts down the whole "discussion" part of a discussion forum.

[Planogirl]

Now what happens if there is a DIS'er who is in Texas and was evacuating and is pissed...LOL...can they post about their experiences??

I think that they can likely rant but then no one can disagree. Actually, most of the problems come not from people who have something to rant about but articles such as the one you want to post. Most people are usually sympathetic when someone has trouble but in the case of an article, some will likely defend Houston, some will want Houston fined, some will blame Bush, some will blame Clinton and so on. ;)

[Meezers]

I may be in the minority here...but I work in a very stressful environment.

A 9-1-1 Center in a county of 900,000 people is no walk in the park.

Now I work at a much smaller agency but do work 12 hour shifts...almost always with no breaks unless it is an emergency bathroom break.

Now we have internet access in here.

I enjoy coming to these boards to meet people and "have happy thoughts".

I have noticed that you can't ever tell when a thread is going to turn nasty...I will be happily reading along and BANG....the thread is turned and it is scary!

I for one will be glad to comply with the new rules....freedom of speech is one thing....but I have noticed that people tend to be much more mean-spirited when they don't have to speak to you in person.

PS....okay now I realize I should have used a different word than "scary"....how about "mean"...."spiteful"...."nasty".....and it just comes out of left field! Here I was reading about fireworks (example only) and someone picks a fight about something totally non-related....well...you can't really avoid those unless you avoid whole board.

[chadfromdallas]

I will be happily reading along and BANG....the thread is turned and it is scary!


:rotfl2: That scary, scary text just jumps out at ya :earboy2:

[Charade]

My guess is that you would be able to post it (since it's primarily factual and from the associated press), but no one would then be able to react to it.

Or maybe not?

Sort of shuts down the whole "discussion" part of a discussion forum.


It's just that you can't discuss *that* topic!!

[bsnyder]

Scary threads?

It's an anonymous message board. If you read something that scares you, or that you take offense to, why not just back out and go on to another thread?
There are hundreds and hundreds of them here that are completely safe and non-scary.

[shortbun]

Well, are the moderators going to state all acceptable topics. Are we allowed to express opinions? I'm sure I saw opinions posted by moderators very recently. Is this because not all people agree with those? I posted recently about how many threads had been closed in amazement and THAT thread was actually removed. I have no idea why. It wasn't even a debate. I don't really post here that often because my time is limited but I do enjoy the fun had and I thought that's what everyone was doing(most everyone).

[WDWBetsy]

I'm all for expressing opinions. Personal attacks should not be allowed.

But censorship of a topic that is allowing people to vent and exchange productive thoughts? Hmm... makes me rethink sponsorship of the DISboards next year. :confused3

I've been involved in some discussions where people actually made me rethink my own opinions. I've always said that if you don't like a particular thread, go to a different one or report those who abuse the rules.

If DISboards moderators or webmasters are going to lock threads because they get out of hand or delete abusive, personal-attack posts, that's one thing. But saying that you could possibly be asked to not post on the DISboards if you tread into "banned topics" that are IMHO not that controversial kinda bothers me. Is this just a ban on posts that are interpreted as "who's to blame" or any opinions on anything about the Hurricane Katrina preparations, response, or investigation?

I will abide by the rules, however it would help if they were more specific. After all, the Community Board lists under it: "Join our moderators in a discussion forum for any topic, Disney or otherwise. Swap stories, information, ask questions...just be friendly :)" I see no better use of a community board than the respectful discussion of matters that can affect us all.

[disney4us2002]

Good, finally. How many times can the same people state the same thing? Perhaps I'll check in here now and then to read again. I saw many vents but not many, if any, productive exchanges.

[WebmasterAlex]

Ok I think it is reasonable to say I wasn't completely clear in my original post so let me clarify. We are going to strictly enforce publicly posted board policy from here forward:


3. NO FIGHTING: Several Internet news groups are marred by the actions of a few selfish people who turn an otherwise positive forum into a soap box for their anger issues. Internet newsgroups are not moderated, and therefore, anything goes. These boards are moderated in an effort to keep the discussions appropriate to the topic at hand. Those who feel they can not abide by these rules are welcome to read the posts on the board, and respond via email to the person who posted the message. Messages that are argumentative or sarcastic in nature will be deleted without discussion.


We do not believe in censorship, and open discussions about various issues is encouraged. We ask that everyone conduct himself or herself with respect when speaking to other people. It is okay to disagree, as long as the discussion remains respectful of the feelings of others. Once a discussion begins to step over that line, the post in question will be deleted. In extreme cases, individuals who are not able to conduct themselves as responsible group members will be asked not to return.

[WebmasterAlex]

I wanted to add on other thing

I really blame myself for a lot of this mess. Within days after this started people started making posts against guidelines. I was the one who said "This is huge and people are really upset. Let's let them vent a little and it will settle down".
I really believed that.
Unfortunately that has not proved to be the case. Many many people have been driven from this board by people arguing and fighting. This board had mostly become about the same people trying to score "points" and posting the same thing over and over again in different ways.
Please remember we are a Disney internet board. Our primary mission is Disney trip planning. As a sideline to that we have developed quite an active community. Mostly it's a good community full of people that want to help people and enjoy the boards. When those people are being driven from a board there is a huge problem. We are not a debate board. Nothing will be solved by whatever is discussed here. But what we can do is provide a place for information, for caring and for doing useful things for the members of our community that may really need our help, even if it's just a place to talk about what is happening to them.
That is far more important than endless arguing over who is to blame.

[C.Ann]

I wanted to add on other thing

I really blame myself for a lot of this mess. Within days after this started people started making posts against guidelines. I was the one who said "This is huge and people are really upset. Let's let them vent a little and it will settle down".
I really believed that.
Unfortunately that has not proved to be the case. Many many people have been driven from this board by people arguing and fighting. This board had mostly become about the same people trying to score "points" and posting the same thing over and over again in different ways.
Please remember we are a Disney internet board. Our primary mission is Disney trip planning. As a sideline to that we have developed quite an active community. Mostly it's a good community full of people that want to help people and enjoy the boards. When those people are being driven from a board there is a huge problem. We are not a debate board. Nothing will be solved by whatever is discussed here. But what we can do is provide a place for information, for caring and for doing useful things for the members of our community that may really need our help, even if it's just a place to talk about what is happening to them.
That is far more important than endless arguing over who is to blame.
-------------------------

This makes perfect sense to me, Alex.. Emotions were running SO high when those people were suffering so badly in NO.. I'll be the first to admit that I was FURIOUS and probably would have "blamed" Tinkerbell if she was standing in front of me, was on the front page of the newspaper, or looking out at me from the television screen.. Fortunately, I recognized on my own that my anger was getting the best of me and I needed to remove myself from this board until I cooled down and got a better grip on myself.. I'm glad that I took that short break - otherwise I probably would have found myself banned - or at the very least, "warned"..

I'm not angry anymore - just terribly sad that there is so much loss and suffering going on in this country right now.. :(

Thanks for explaining your position a bit better.. :flower:

[Planogirl]

I felt a desperate need to vent when Katrina happened so at least for me, you were on the mark Alex. However, now there is the possibility that my state will suffer and I can't guarantee that I won't get upset by some things. I have been very emotional at times the last few days in fact.

I think that I need to just avoid posting here if there is the possibility that I can post in outrage and perhaps cause a fight. I don't wish to be banned because I care too much.

[Charade]

It is possible for people to disagree and vent without personal attacks and name calling.


What's the difference if I disagree(or disprove) something someone said about digital cameras or TVs or lawn tractors for that matter and the current nominee for the SCOTUS if it's done in the same manner?. The later can be done without malice and usually is but for some reason, during political "debates" name calling and personal attacks on people's intelligence (which is sometimes disguised by the use of "intellectual" vocabulary) easily bubbles to the surface which typically kills any legitimate dialog and chases good people away.


Have a nice day!!

[ThAnswr]

It is possible for people to disagree and vent without personal attacks and name calling.


What's the difference if I disagree(or disprove) something someone said about digital cameras or TVs or lawn tractors for that matter and the current nominee for the SCOTUS if it's done in the same manner?. The later can be done without malice and usually is but for some reason, during political "debates" name calling and personal attacks on people's intelligence (which is sometimes disguised by the use of "intellectual" vocabulary) easily bubbles to the surface which typically kills any legitimate dialog and chases good people away.


Have a nice day!!

I think the problem here is that ANY debate or disagreement is being construed as a personal attack.

You and I have disagreed over the years and have had some pretty heated disagreements, but there was always a point where humor took over ("You swine"). What appears to be "vitriol" can turn on a dime to good humor/laughter and often does. And that is what certain individuals are either missing or don't want to see.

Now there are some here who go right over the top with the name-calling and insults from the get-go. Btw, being called a leftie is not name-calling in my book. Getting back to the point, those individuals who go over the top should be dealt with on an individual basis. Strangely enough, the community often deals with them by ignoring them and then they either change their tactics or they go away. Problem solved.

A community isn't just pixie dust and fluff. It's relationships built up over years and the sharing of experiences, and yes, the sharing of ideas. And Katrina was a situation in which it was impossible to ignore and caused individuals to have very strong opinions, and it should have. That's the nature of what we saw over a 1 week period.

Frankly, if my opinion is no longer welcome and my presence seems to be more of an annoyance to some, I'll go elsewhere. But, so will my sponsorship, my money, and my support. That's not a veiled threat: That's reality. If I don't like one supermarket and I feel I'm not being treated with respect, I go somewhere else. That's real life.

[ThAnswr]

I Nothing will be solved by whatever is discussed here.

And you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. Whenever information is being passed along, whether an opinion piece, a phone number, a quote, a link, etc. something happens. Someone takes the trouble to read that article or click on that link and possibly see something they never saw before. Part of solving a problem correctly is keeping oneself informed.

[Tigger_Magic]

I think the problem here is that ANY debate or disagreement is being construed as a personal attack.

You and I have disagreed over the years and have had some pretty heated disagreements, but there was always a point where humor took over ("You swine"). What appears to be "vitriol" can turn on a dime to good humor/laughter and often does. And that is what certain individuals are either missing or don't want to see.

Now there are some here who go right over the top with the name-calling and insults from the get-go. Btw, being called a leftie is not name-calling in my book. Getting back to the point, those individuals who go over the top should be dealt with on an individual basis. Strangely enough, the community often deals with them by ignoring them and then they either change their tactics or they go away. Problem solved.

A community isn't just pixie dust and fluff. It's relationships built up over years and the sharing of experiences, and yes, the sharing of ideas. And Katrina was a situation in which it was impossible to ignore and caused individuals to have very strong opinions, and it should have. That's the nature of what we saw over a 1 week period.

Frankly, if my opinion is no longer welcome and my presence seems to be more of an annoyance to some, I'll go elsewhere. But, so will my sponsorship, my money, and my support. That's not a veiled threat: That's reality. If I don't like one supermarket and I feel I'm not being treated with respect, I go somewhere else. That's real life. And you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. Whenever information is being passed along, whether an opinion piece, a phone number, a quote, a link, etc. something happens. Someone takes the trouble to read that article or click on that link and possibly see something they never saw before. Part of solving a problem correctly is keeping oneself informed. Two EXCELLENT posts and ITA with both.

I understand and appreciate Alex's points: his "playground"; his rules. That's the way it's been and users should be aware of that when they sign up. However, over 70,000 people have been invited to play and sometimes the games may get a bit rough and tumble.

Like in any game, the umpires should discipline or eject the offenders, not shut down the whole game because of the actions of a few.

Everyone needs to keep in mind that it is all too easy to read into posts on Internet message boards emotion and/or intent that the writer may never have meant. I think that leads to a lot of misunderstandings. Admittedly, some message's intent & emotion is abundantly clear, but there are many times I've misread something or assumed the writer had some other intent. Debates tend to increase that probability.

Just my 2 cents...

[rcyannacci]

And you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. Whenever information is being passed along, whether an opinion piece, a phone number, a quote, a link, etc. something happens. Someone takes the trouble to read that article or click on that link and possibly see something they never saw before. Part of solving a problem correctly is keeping oneself informed.

ITA!

I can even point to actions I've taken as a result to information posted here and dialogue exchanged. Based on one of my DIS friend's activism, I decided to get active in a bake-sale for the humane society. I also followed a link that someone posted to make a contribution.

I also feel like I have a better sense of the whole situation, based on listening to arguments for all sides.

I really appreciate having this forum because the community in which I live is fairly liberal, and I want to make sure I don't isolate myself from the views of others. America is so large and diverse, and even if I may disagree with someone's position, I always walk away from the computer feeling like I know just a little bit more about who we are.

[Alicnwondrln]

I think the problem here is that ANY debate or disagreement is being construed as a personal attack.

You and I have disagreed over the years and have had some pretty heated disagreements, but there was always a point where humor took over ("You swine"). What appears to be "vitriol" can turn on a dime to good humor/laughter and often does. And that is what certain individuals are either missing or don't want to see.

Now there are some here who go right over the top with the name-calling and insults from the get-go. Btw, being called a leftie is not name-calling in my book. Getting back to the point, those individuals who go over the top should be dealt with on an individual basis. Strangely enough, the community often deals with them by ignoring them and then they either change their tactics or they go away. Problem solved.

A community isn't just pixie dust and fluff. It's relationships built up over years and the sharing of experiences, and yes, the sharing of ideas. And Katrina was a situation in which it was impossible to ignore and caused individuals to have very strong opinions, and it should have. That's the nature of what we saw over a 1 week period.

Frankly, if my opinion is no longer welcome and my presence seems to be more of an annoyance to some, I'll go elsewhere. But, so will my sponsorship, my money, and my support. That's not a veiled threat: That's reality. If I don't like one supermarket and I feel I'm not being treated with respect, I go somewhere else. That's real life.

this post and the next one by this poster are fabulous
and make very good points

[septbride2002]

I think the problem here is that ANY debate or disagreement is being construed as a personal attack.

You and I have disagreed over the years and have had some pretty heated disagreements, but there was always a point where humor took over ("You swine"). What appears to be "vitriol" can turn on a dime to good humor/laughter and often does. And that is what certain individuals are either missing or don't want to see.

Now there are some here who go right over the top with the name-calling and insults from the get-go. Btw, being called a leftie is not name-calling in my book. Getting back to the point, those individuals who go over the top should be dealt with on an individual basis. Strangely enough, the community often deals with them by ignoring them and then they either change their tactics or they go away. Problem solved.

A community isn't just pixie dust and fluff. It's relationships built up over years and the sharing of experiences, and yes, the sharing of ideas. And Katrina was a situation in which it was impossible to ignore and caused individuals to have very strong opinions, and it should have. That's the nature of what we saw over a 1 week period.

Frankly, if my opinion is no longer welcome and my presence seems to be more of an annoyance to some, I'll go elsewhere. But, so will my sponsorship, my money, and my support. That's not a veiled threat: That's reality. If I don't like one supermarket and I feel I'm not being treated with respect, I go somewhere else. That's real life.

Bravo! This was totally the point I was trying to make, you just said it better!

~Amanda

[Teejay32]

I wanted to add on other thing

I really blame myself for a lot of this mess. Within days after this started people started making posts against guidelines. I was the one who said "This is huge and people are really upset. Let's let them vent a little and it will settle down".
I really believed that.


I think you were right for the most part, seeing as how it was you yourself I was arguing with here one night :p and most of that died down...the remainder is the normal political brawling. You can't always separate the two these days but I give you lots of points for trying, and I imagine that both the opinion-makers and the "people being turned away" have to learn to live with each other somewhat - those seeking a place to avoid a censorious atmosphere or political discussion in the world today clue the rest of us in when they find it. JM.02

[ThAnswr]

In other words.............good luck. :drinking1

[Teejay32]

exactly. ::yes:: you'd miss us. You think fun-loving Disney-themed groups of neo-cons grow on trees?

[wvrevy]

exactly. ::yes:: you'd miss us. You think fun-loving Disney-themed groups of neo-cons grow on trees?
I don't think anybody would put "neo-cons" and "trees" together, no. :teeth: ;)

[WebmasterAlex]

Well since neo-cons and trees are definitely way off topic :)
I get to lock my own thread!
Since it's been pretty appropriate since I posted this I'm going to assume that everyone got the hint.