How did Michael Brown ever get appointed as director of FEMA?

[BriarfoxinWA]

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/3/212637/3211

Amazing...just goes to show its "who" you know not "what" you know...

[Geoff_M]

Go look up how the FEMA "golden boy" James Lee Witt got this appointment to the job.

Perhaps you have better information that what I have found?Update: It appears that I confused Witt with "Buddy" Young, the former head of Clinton's security detail as Governor who was appointed as the head of one of the FEMA regions, but not the national director. My bad.

[mom2alix]

Okay, Geoff, I took your challenge since I didn't know anything about Witt. I don't see that you have a point. Perhaps you have better information that what I have found?

Actually, it seems he (Witt) had experience before he took on the FEMA as he had run a state emergency program. This is very similar to the experience level we seem to expect in our presidents (i.e. we have often looked to candidates who have held the executive position of governor prior to running for the executive position on President). It seems that Witt was a reasonable appointment. Brown does not seem to have as strong a resume.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Lee_Witt

[bicker]

Also, agency administrators are necessarily first responders. My boss couldn't do my job, if his life depended on it, and his boss even less so. Leading a company and managing a business doesn't necessarily require software development skills -- even a software development company. Similarly, leading a government agency draws on skills that are radically different from those necessary in first responders or even emergency managers: Agency administrators spend most of their time securing funding and legislation in the agency's interest. These folks need to be consummate politicians and lawyers in order to best safeguard the work of those who work in their agency, to do their best to obtain the necessary resources and considerations to best support the agency's mission.

[peachgirl]

Rather than hang Brown out to dry, one might want to place some blame on the person responsible for giving him the job, especially considering the fact that Brown had very little in his background that suggested he was the least bit qualified for the job.



Brown ran for Congress in 1988 and won 27 percent of the vote against Democratic incumbent Glenn English. He spent the 1990s as judges and stewards commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association. His job was to ensure that horse-show judges followed the rules and to investigate allegations against those suspected of cheating.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12554964.htm

[bicker]

Actually, his background is a bit more relevant to government service than that:Mr. Brown served as FEMA's Deputy Director and the agency's General Counsel. Shortly after the September 11th terrorist attacks, Mr. Brown served on the President's Consequence Management Principal's Committee, which acted as the White House's policy coordination group for the federal domestic response to the attacks. Later, the President asked him to head the Consequence Management Working Group to identify and resolve key issues regarding the federal response plan. In August 2002, President Bush appointed him to the Transition Planning Office for the new Department of Homeland Security, serving as the transition leader for the EP&R Division.

Prior to joining FEMA, Mr. Brown practiced law in Colorado and Oklahoma, where he served as a bar examiner on ethics and professional responsibility for the Oklahoma Supreme Court and as a hearing examiner for the Colorado Supreme Court. He had been appointed as a special prosecutor in police disciplinary matters. While attending law school he was appointed by the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee of the Oklahoma Legislature as the Finance Committee Staff Director, where he oversaw state fiscal issues. His background in state and local government also includes serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight and as a city councilman.

[WDWBetsy]

Brownie (as our President calls him) was appointed by Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's 2000 campaign manager and an old friend of Brown's in Oklahoma. When Allbaugh, who managed Bush's campaign, took over FEMA in 2001, he took Brown with him as general counsel.

By the way - after appointing Brown to his current job, Joe Allbaugh is now working on Iraq redevelopment (aka making money off the war). His company is New Bridge Strategies (www.newbridgestrategies.com), LLC - a unique company that was created specifically with the aim of assisting clients to evaluate and take advantage of business opportunities in the Middle East following the conclusion of the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

For those of you who do not like Michael Moore and did not watch Fahrenheit 9/11, there's a nice segment on the corporate vultures having a big conference on how to make money off the war in Iraq. It's actual footage from the conference.

[Geoff_M]

...there's a nice segment on the corporate vultures having a big conference on how to make money off the war in Iraq. It's actual footage from the conference.So what does what the guy who held the job before Brown is doing today have to do with anything here?

[peachgirl]

Actually, his background is a bit more relevant to government service than that:

It looks really good when you take the prettied up version of his CV from the FEMA website.:rotfl2:

In reality, he had absolutely no experience that would lend itself to being the head of a department as crucial as FEMA. His biggest accomplishment was working for the IAHA (Arabian horse assoc.) and his 10 years at that job was marked by controversy and mismanagement.

His background in state and local government also includes serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight and as a city councilman.

A "city" councilman??? It was Edmond, Oklahoma. For those of us who are actually familiar with Oklahoma, I doubt any of us would classify Edmond as a "city". It's not much more than a sleepy suburb of OKC.

[Geoff_M]

Funny, he lead the agency during the "Columbia" recovery, recent California wildfires, and last season's devistating hurricane season... during which FEMA received good marks and it was noted how much the agency learned after Andrew. No one seemed to be attacking his credentials during those efforts.

[WDWBetsy]

So what does what the guy who held the job before Brown is doing today have to do with anything here?

Um.... He left a government job for a more profitable one. One where his company teaches other rich people how to profit off the war.

Personally, I think it says a lot about a person. They're both buddies of Bush who were appointed to high positions.

[Geoff_M]

Ah, the ol "guilt by association" thing... I see now.

[WDWBetsy]

Ah, the ol "guilt by association" thing... I see now.

It's more an issue with our President appointing his buddies, who may or may not have the experience required to do the best job possible.

[ThAnswr]

Funny, he lead the agency during the "Columbia" recovery, recent California wildfires, and last season's devistating hurricane season... during which FEMA received good marks and it was noted how much the agency learned after Andrew. No one seemed to be attacking his credentials during those efforts.

Brown got good marks from who?

I'm a Charley survivor and FEMA was a joke. They paid out millions of dollars in wind damage aid to Miami-Dade when Miami-Dade didn't have any wind damage from Charley. In the meantime, there were people still living on their porches. FEMA paid millions for clean-up that either never happened or was done in such a slip-shod manner, the taxpayers of Charlotte County had to have the mess cleaned up again. We're still trying to get the money from FEMA.

So please, have a little reality with your morning coffee.

[Geoff_M]

It's more an issue with our President appointing his buddies, who may or may not have the experience required to do the best job possible.So how would characterize the Brown-led FEMA efforts such as the response to last year's 1-2-3 hurricane punch to Florida?

So you really think Presidents normally issue job postings and collect resumes for top level jobs?

[WDWBetsy]

So you really think Presidents normally issue job postings and collect resumes for top level jobs?

It's a matter of them using common sense and making sure that the people they appoint are capable of doing the job. Why is that so difficult?

[ByTheSea]

So you really think Presidents normally issue job postings and collect resumes for top level jobs?

No, I think this President rewards his buddies, his buddies buddies and his contributors without regard to knowledge, skills or expertise.

[Geoff_M]

Brown got good marks from who?While there were questions about the long term handling, FEMA got good marks for the initial relief response last year from the AP for starters:While the agency received high praise during and immediately after the four hurricanes that struck Florida, it now faces questions from Congress on several issues and complaints from counties still waiting for FEMA checks.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/29/State/Director_defends_FEMA.shtml

[ThAnswr]

While there were questions about the long term handling, FEMA got good marks for the initial relief response last year from the AP for starters:

*******

[ThAnswr]

While there were questions about the long term handling, FEMA got good marks for the initial relief response last year from the AP for starters:

How much of those FEMA actions that warranted good marks were the result of 2 things:

1) Governor Jeb Bush is President George Bush's brother

2) it was an election year

Btw, as one who was here, those high marks for the initial response lasted for about a month after Charley. After that, we realized FEMA was a joke and they still continue to be to this day.

In addition, my congressman Mark Foley (R) has been involved in an investigation of FEMA. Sorry to say, Foley isn't getting very far, and you can quote as many newspapers as you want, but those are the facts on the ground.

[Virgo10]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2005-08/19232914.jpg

Debra Simon, her husband and their dog have been in a Federal Emergency Management Agency trailer in Edgemere since Tropical Storm Isabel hit her home in 2003.

A picture is worth a thousand words but if you need them, here are some links.

FEMA still working on storm damage from 2004 (http://www.sptimes.com/2005/06/21/State/FEMA_still_working_on.shtml)

A Year After Hurricanes, Thousands Still in Limbo (http://www.realestatejournal.com/buysell/regionalnews/20050616-rodriguez.html)

[DawnCt1]

Also, agency administrators are necessarily first responders. My boss couldn't do my job, if his life depended on it, and his boss even less so. Leading a company and managing a business doesn't necessarily require software development skills -- even a software development company. Similarly, leading a government agency draws on skills that are radically different from those necessary in first responders or even emergency managers: Agency administrators spend most of their time securing funding and legislation in the agency's interest. These folks need to be consummate politicians and lawyers in order to best safeguard the work of those who work in their agency, to do their best to obtain the necessary resources and considerations to best support the agency's mission.

Exactly. That is why CEO's are "interchangable". A CEO at General Motors doesn't need to know how to build a car. He would be just as valuable at United Can Co.

[swilphil]

I would like someone who is the head of our entire country's emergency maintenance to have a little more administrative experience besides being an assistant city manager for Edmund, Oklahoma.

Bush obviously likes "Brownie" and I'm sure he's a swell fellow to go fishing with, but many Republican congressmen have been critical of him in the last week. I just don't understand why a couple people here seem to think he has done nothing wrong. Are we watching the same news reports?

[bicker]

In reality, he had absolutely no experience that would lend itself to being the head of a department as crucial as FEMA. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about that. Your word versus the Congressional committee that vetted him as a candidate? I'll believe them, no offense.

I would like someone who is the head of our entire country's emergency maintenance to have a little more administrative experience I would like the person to be the best for the job. Unfortunately, the job is mostly dealing with legislators and officials.

Brown was qualified, and since he was deputy first, was very qualified. Anyone more qualified would have taken a better job in the private sector.

[WDWBetsy]

To me, this says it all. I can only imagine how many lives were not saved because of this guy's lack of urgency.

FEMA Chief Waited Until After Storm Hit
By TED BRIDIS, Associated Press Writer

The government's disaster chief waited until hours after Hurricane Katrina had already struck the Gulf Coast before asking his boss to dispatch 1,000 Homeland Security employees to the region — and gave them two days to arrive, according to internal documents.

Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, sought the approval from Homeland Security Secretary Mike Chertoff roughly five hours after Katrina made landfall on Aug. 29. Brown said that among duties of these employees was to "convey a positive image" about the government's response for victims.

Before then, FEMA had positioned smaller rescue and communications teams across the Gulf Coast. But officials acknowledged Tuesday the first department-wide appeal for help came only as the storm raged.

Brown's memo to Chertoff described Katrina as "this near catastrophic event" but otherwise lacked any urgent language. The memo politely ended, "Thank you for your consideration in helping us to meet our responsibilities."

The initial responses of the government and Brown came under escalating criticism as the breadth of destruction and death grew. President Bush and Congress on Tuesday pledged separate investigations into the federal response to Katrina. "Governments at all levels failed," said Sen. Susan Collins (news, bio, voting record), R-Maine.

Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said Brown had positioned front-line rescue teams and Coast Guard helicopters before the storm. Brown's memo on Aug. 29 aimed to assemble the necessary federal work force to support the rescues, establish communications and coordinate with victims and community groups, Knocke said.

Instead of rescuing people or recovering bodies, these employees would focus on helping victims find the help they needed, he said.

"There will be plenty of time to assess what worked and what didn't work," Knocke said. "Clearly there will be time for blame to be assigned and to learn from some of the successful efforts."

Brown's memo told employees that among their duties, they would be expected to "convey a positive image of disaster operations to government officials, community organizations and the general public."

"FEMA response and recovery operations are a top priority of the department and as we know, one of yours," Brown wrote Chertoff. He proposed sending 1,000 Homeland Security Department employees within 48 hours and 2,000 within seven days.

Knocke said the 48-hour period suggested for the Homeland employees was to ensure they had adequate training. "They were training to help the life-savers," Knocke said.

Employees required a supervisor's approval and at least 24 hours of disaster training in Maryland, Florida or Georgia. "You must be physically able to work in a disaster area without refrigeration for medications and have the ability to work in the outdoors all day," Brown wrote.

The same day Brown wrote Chertoff, Brown also urged local fire and rescue departments outside Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi not to send trucks or emergency workers into disaster areas without an explicit request for help from state or local governments. Brown said it was vital to coordinate fire and rescue efforts.

Sen. Barbara Mikulski (news, bio, voting record), D-Md., said Tuesday that Brown should step down.

After a senators-only briefing by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and other Cabinet members, Sen. Charles E. Schumer (news, bio, voting record) said lawmakers weren't getting their questions answered.

"What people up there want to know, Democrats and Republicans, is what is the challenge ahead, how are you handling that and what did you do wrong in the past," said Schumer, D-N.Y.

Sen. Ted Stevens (news, bio, voting record), R-Alaska, said the administration is "getting a bad rap" for the emergency response.

"This is the largest disaster in the history of the United States, over an area twice the size of Europe," Stevens said. "People have to understand this is a big, big problem."

Meanwhile, the airline industry said the government's request for help evacuating storm victims didn't come until late Thursday afternoon. The president of the Air Transport Association, James May, said the Homeland Security Department called then to ask if the group could participate in an airlift for refugees.
___

On the Net:

Federal Emergency Management Agency: http://www.fema.gov

Homeland Security Department: http://www.dhs.gov

The memo from FEMA Director Mike Brown to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff is available at: http://wid.ap.org/documents/dhskatrina.pdf

[peachgirl]

Your word versus the Congressional committee that vetted him as a candidate?

If the only bar that has to be risen above is that the Congress gave their stamp of approval...

Well, let's just say that you place much more faith in politicians than I do.

[bicker]

Well, let's just say that you place much more faith in politicians than I do.No, it's just that I put more faith in elected leaders, who are naturally in conflict with each other, keeping an eye on each other, than on random folks. None of us have more credentials than the US Congress in total. However, I agree that the US Congress isn't sufficient authority, so there will be an independent investigation, performed by a select group of people who are among the most respected in our society -- that will result in more reliable information than the US Congress itself.

I can only imagine how many lives were not saved because of this guy's lack of urgency.I wouldn't interpret it as a lack of urgency, but rather an implementation of the catastrophic response plan that had been well-established. To throw out the established plans and try to run a major logisitical operation would have been a criminal instance of irresponsibility.

Remember, the municipal and state governments committed to the federal goverment that THEY could handle the most servere emergency conceivable for three days, after which they would need federal assistance. The municipal and state governments failed. The federal government arrived to help early.

[WDWBetsy]

Remember, the municipal and state governments committed to the federal goverment that THEY could handle the most servere emergency conceivable for three days, after which they would need federal assistance. The municipal and state governments failed. The federal government arrived to help early.

Really? The memo (http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976) I interpret that as Gov. Blanco clearly requesting federal help. And they didn't wait 3 days - this was on 27th of August. They expected something clearly out of their scope of handling - and were expecting a direct hit. They requested federal help.

Specifically, the 3rd paragraph:

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

Bush even said on Aug. 27 when he declared the emergency (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_us/bush_katrina_2) that the feds would be jumping in. Or at least that's how I read it.

Then Brown didn't act on the majority of FEMA help until Aug. 29 - and gave them 2 days to get there. Sure there were small teams of FEMA workers there, but not the massive aid I would expect.

I guess I just expect more from our government - I want to know what went wrong so this doesn't happen again - and I want the ball rolling now. It's not political, it's not Bush-hating. It's asking for accountability, and expecting those who are failing to be removed so they don't screw up the next disaster.

[sodaseller]

While there were questions about the long term handling, FEMA got good marks for the initial relief response last year from the AP for starters:

They did an excellent job last year in Florida. Had they repeated that performance, things woudl be far different. And note the absence of reference to the supposed legal obstacle which prevented FEMA from performing its self-decribed mission

[sodaseller]

So how would characterize the Brown-led FEMA efforts such as the response to last year's 1-2-3 hurricane punch to Florida?

So you really think Presidents normally issue job postings and collect resumes for top level jobs?
There were actually 4 - Charley, Frances Ivan and Jaenne

[ThAnswr]

They did an excellent job last year in Florida. Had they repeated that performance, things woudl be far different. And note the absence of reference to the supposed legal obstacle which prevented FEMA from performing its self-decribed mission

They didn't do an excellent job in this part of Florida.

And how much of what was done in Florida was due to the governor of Florida having the president's phone number on speed dial and not due to FEMA's "expertise" (ahem).

[sodaseller]

They didn't do an excellent job in this part of Florida.

And how much of what was done in Florida was due to the governor of Florida having the president's phone number on speed dial and not due to FEMA's "expertise" (ahem).
It was an election year in a swing state. Comprende?

I have always heard they did well. We lost power twice, but never "tested" them

[Tumbleweed]

I will never get over Michael Brown reporting to Paula Zahn on Thursday that everyone
had food and water and everything was taken care of.

Meanwhile, on the split screen I am watching desperate people screaming for help and
bodies wrapped and set over to the side.

I won't say there was a racial issue, but it really struck me that an awful lot of
whites got to take their pets with them, while little black kids had to leave their
dogs by the side of the bus.

[peachgirl]

Don't worry, Brown is on the job. He requested 1000 additional personnel to dispatch to New Orleans...part of their job as stated in a memo was to represent FEMA in a postive light..

Yep, that's what the folks in New Orleans really needed most...A few hundred of the government's best PR people.

[ThAnswr]

It was an election year in a swing state. Comprende?

Gee, ya think. :)

I have always heard they did well. We lost power twice, but never "tested" them

Looking back on the Charley aftermath, help started coming in immediately. But, this is not an urban area and is made up of primarily private homes. And the fact is, Charley was half a hurricane. Our damage was primarily wind.

And it didn't hurt that it was an election year in a swing state and the president and governor just might face each other over the Thanksgiving dinner table.

Charlotte County is still trying to recover the money for cleanup that FEMA had paid to a company that didn't do the job. We taxpayers had to hire another group. And then there's the money FEMA sent to Miami-Dade for Charley damage which never happened.

FEMA's incompetence was in full swing last year but the consequences weren't as tragic as they are this year. And the hurricane season is stil young.

[totalia]

Betsy, you make wonderful posts. You put it very well.

Accountability is to be expected from everyone. The President, Brown, and others are not above that just because they have a position.

[bicker]

Really? The memo (http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976) I interpret that as Gov. Blanco clearly requesting federal help. And they didn't wait 3 days - this was on 27th of August.I was referring to the commitment the state and local authorities made to FEMA as part of the Hurricane Pam exercise: In the Hurricane Pam exercise, the state and local authorities committed to providing all rescue and recovery services for the first few days of the emergency, and then FEMA would arrive with regional and federal assistance on the third or fourth day. And that's exactly what they did.

I guess I just expect more from our government - I want to know what went wrong so this doesn't happen againIn a nutshell, taxpayers don't want to pay for the support of emergency response teams that would be necessary to provide a significantly higher level of service from the government. So we rely on regional help, coordinated by the Federal government. When there is a catastrophe so large that an entire region is affected, so regional assistance is unavailable, there will be a delay of a couple of days before help arrives. If you don't like, lobby for a new government program that will obviate that problem. Good luck.

Accountability is to be expected from everyone. The President, Brown, and others are not above that just because they have a position.What about us? Why the assumption that specific people are at fault, instead of a societal sentiment?

[WDWBetsy]

Accountability is to be expected from everyone. The President, Brown, and others are not above that just because they have a position.

What about us? Why the assumption that specific people
are at fault, instead of a societal sentiment?

Um - I think the choice of the word everyone pretty much means - well ... everyone. That means EVERY ONE of us.

Given that, I don't like making assumptions. Why the assumption that someone was making an assumption? :rotfl:

[bsnyder]

From the Hurricane Pam exercise press release:

Hurricane Pam brought sustained winds of 120 mph, up to 20 inches of rain in parts of southeast Louisiana and storm surge that topped levees in the New Orleans area. More than one million residents evacuated and Hurricane Pam destroyed 500,000-600,000 buildings. Emergency officials from 50 parish, state, federal and volunteer organizations faced this scenario during a five-day exercise held this week at the State Emergency Operations Center in Baton Rouge....


...State resources are adequate to operate shelters for the first 3-5 days. The group planned how federal and other resources will replenish supplies at shelters.


http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=13051

Could it get ANY clearer, as to what caused the biggest problems?

[WDWBetsy]

Could it get ANY clearer, as to what caused the biggest problems?

That caused a huge problem. IN ADDITION, there's also some information to be found here (I will bold the other huge issues in my eyes - my comments in italic) - many of which I think are local and state issues, as well as federal ones:

LSU Hurricane Pam Info (http://www.lsu.edu/highlights/052/pam.html)

LSU Researchers Assist State Agencies with Hurricane Response Plans
“A helicopter hovers over a flooded area following passage of Hurricane Betsy, a Category Three storm that hit southeast Louisiana in September 1965, causing $1.4 billion in damage, 81 deaths, and a 10-foot storm surge.” Photo courtesy NOAA.

It is possibly the most exciting season of the year in South Louisiana. No, not LSU football season. Hurricane season, that June-through-November observance of satellite images of the tropics; of panicked citizens racing to grocery stores at the 11th hour to find shelves emptied of bread, bottled water, and flashlight batteries; of TV reporters dodging airborne trash cans in 100 miles per hour winds, yelling, “It stings!” as flying sand hits their wet, squinting faces.

Yes, it’s that time again. Are you ready?

Thanks to LSU’s hurricane experts, South Louisiana’s emergency officials are better prepared than ever to respond to the all-too-familiar threat of severe tropical weather.

This is Only a Test

Last summer, staff from the LSU Hurricane Center participated in the “Hurricane Pam Exercise,” a 10-day event designed to help emergency officials develop a response plan should a major hurricane threaten the greater New Orleans area.

Realistic weather and damage data generated by the National Weather Service, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and the LSU Hurricane Center showed, with winds of 120 mph, the fictional Hurricane Pam would be a Category Three storm that would pour 20 inches of rain on parts of southeast Louisiana. In addition, more than one million residents would be forced to evacuate and nearly 600,000 buildings would be destroyed.

LSU Hurricane Center staff worked with the Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and emergency officials from several parish, state, and federal agencies to help disaster response teams plan for search and rescue missions, medical care, sheltering, temporary housing, school restoration, and debris management.

“The exercise had enormous educational value to state and federal emergency managers,” said Ivor van Heerden, director of LSU’s Center for the Study of Public Health Impacts of Hurricanes.” It showed the scope of potential problems they will face and made them far more aware of the help they will need.”

Aftermath

From the simulation, officials estimate that a storm like Hurricane Pam would:

* cause flooding that would leave 300,000 people trapped in New Orleans, many of whom would not have private transportation for evacuation;
* send evacuees to 1,000 shelters, which would likely remain open for 100 days;
* require the transfer of patients from hospitals in harm’s way to hospitals in other parts of the state;
* trigger outbreaks of tetanus, influenza, and other diseases likely to be present after a storm;
* create 30 million cubic yards of debris and 237,000 cubic yards of household hazardous waste.

As a result of the Hurricane Pam Exercise, agencies are in the process of applying what they learned to their emergency response plans. Those changes include:

* assisting people without transportation – the American Red Cross is developing a program that would ask private citizens to collect people at area churches and transport them.
* identifying more than 700 shelters and planning the locations for the remaining sites.
* outlining patient movement details and determining how to set in motion existing immunization plans.
* establishing a command structure that would employ up to 800 searchers.
* identifying existing landfills capable of accepting hazardous waste and outlining debris removal plans.

One important result of the exercise was the understanding among agencies at all levels of the seriousness of such an event. “A White House staffer was briefed on the exercise,” said van Heerden. “There is now a far greater awareness in the federal government about the consequences of storm surges.”

I guess someone forgot to tell certain federal officials.

Re-test

Soon, agencies will have even more storm data to utilize in their response plans.

“A second Hurricane Pam Exercise is planned for this summer,” said van Heerden. “Agencies will be able to expand on aspects of response and recovery that were not explored before.”

Oh - not just an exercise - but a real one... Katrina.

[bsnyder]

That caused a huge problem. But...

But what? It caused the problems everyone is blaming on FEMA - that people were stuck, after the storm, without food and water to sustain them for a few days.

[WDWBetsy]

But what? It caused the problems everyone is blaming on FEMA - that people were stuck, after the storm, without food and water to sustain them for a few days.

You know, Bet - how about if I use the words in addition... would that make you happy? Come on.

I indicated (with bold) some of the issues that were not followed through - primarily not evacuating those who had no transportation - that's what kept the majority of those people there. No money = no ride out of town. I care about what happens to those left behind.

I also bolded the section on the feds:

One important result of the exercise was the understanding among agencies at all levels of the seriousness of such an event. “A White House staffer was briefed on the exercise,” said van Heerden. “There is now a far greater awareness in the federal government about the consequences of storm surges.”

When President Bush or ANYONE (local, state or federal level) makes comments that they didn't know the levees would break or be compromised, they obviously didn't review the Hurricane Pam exercise.

[DawnCt1]

When President Bush or ANYONE (local, state or federal level) makes comments that they didn't know the levees would break or be compromised, they obviously didn't review the Hurricane Pam exercise.

I think that President Bush was taken out of context because I am pretty sure that in this case; "timing is everything". If the levees were going to break, they expected it to happen during the hurricane. It did not. When the winds subsided, there was a sense by everyone that they had dodged a bullet and would be left to deal with hurricane clean up and damage. At THAT point, no one did expect the levees to break. That is what he was referring to.

[WDWBetsy]

I think that President Bush was taken out of context because I am pretty sure that in this case; "timing is everything". If the levees were going to break, they expected it to happen during the hurricane. It did not. When the winds subsided, there was a sense by everyone that they had dodged a bullet and would be left to deal with hurricane clean up and damage. At THAT point, no one did expect the levees to break. That is what he was referring to.

Here's a video clip of him saying it on Sept. 1 - and it's not out of context in my opinion. I guess you can decide for yourself.

ABC Good Morning America Link (http://mediamatters.org/items/200509020001)

[bsnyder]

I think when all the investigating is completed, we'll find out that this is indeed what the federal officials meant when they said the levee breech was a suprise. Not that it wasn't a scenario that was considered, but that it appeared, at first, that the worst case hadn't materialized. That's what everyone on the ground, in the meda, was reporting on Monday, and most of Tuesday.

And it will be interesting to find out exactly when the state and local officials let FEMA known that the levees had given way.

[Puffy2]

Bet do you watch national news? I think everyone in this nation with a televison set knew when the levees broke...and that there were thousands of people in the superdome with no food or water or vital medication for DAYS with the mayor and the governor of Lousiana on national televsion BEGGING for federal assistance on national television. I saw it. I saw it Wed. night, and Thur. ...and Friday morning. Did you?

Does "FEMA" watch the news? Did W? Is our federal government so much out of touch that they don't know how to flip on a television set?

There are only two answers to this tragedy - either the feds are so incompetent that we are all - as a nation - really up the creek without a paddle. OR the feds just don't care that much about us, as a people.

Either way, it's horriable. And how some can continue to defend "them" after this is beyond me.

That's all I have to say about that. And I won't be responding to this thread anymore.

[WDWBetsy]

I think when all the investigating is completed, we'll find out that this is indeed what the federal officials meant when they said the levee breech was a suprise. Not that it wasn't a scenario that was considered, but that it appeared, at first, that the worst case hadn't materialized. That's what everyone on the ground, in the meda, was reporting on Monday, and most of Tuesday.

And it will be interesting to find out exactly when the state and local officials let FEMA known that the levees had given way.

I have to disagree. Bush's comments are exactly what they are. He didn't say anything in that interview about them being surprised since they thought New Orleans had dodged the bullet. It's not a comment taken out of context, but an answer to a legitimate question.

He said "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees. They did anticipate a serious storm. But these levees got breached, and as a result, much of New Orleans is flooded. And now we are having to deal with it and will."

[Laura]

I have to disagree. Bush's comments are exactly what they are. He didn't say anything in that interview about them being surprised since they thought New Orleans had dodged the bullet. It's not a comment taken out of context, but an answer to a legitimate question.

He said "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees. They did anticipate a serious storm. But these levees got breached, and as a result, much of New Orleans is flooded. And now we are having to deal with it and will."

Yeah, I definitely agree with you there.

[bsnyder]

Bet do you watch national news? I think everyone in this nation with a televison set knew when the levees broke...and that there were thousands of people in the superdome with no food or water or vital medication for DAYS with the mayor and the governor of Lousiana on national televsion BEGGING for federal assistance on national television. I saw it. I saw it Wed. night, and Thur. ...and Friday morning. Did you?

Does "FEMA" watch the news? Did W? Is our federal government so much out of touch that they don't know how to flip on a television set?

There are only two answers to this tragedy - either the feds are so incompetent that we are all - as a nation - really up the creek without a paddle. OR the feds just don't care that much about us, as a people.

Either way, it's horriable. And how some can continue to defend "them" after this is beyond me.

That's all I have to say about that. And I won't be responding to this thread anymore.

So that's how you think the local, state and federal officials communicate with each other. Through our television reporters?

You left out the most obvious answer to this tragedy - the first responders, state and local, screwed up their job in every possible way and made it impossible for the feds to do their job as quickly as humanly possible.

[peachgirl]

There are only two answers to this tragedy - either the feds are so incompetent that we are all - as a nation - really up the creek without a paddle. OR the feds just don't care that much about us, as a people.

Either way, it's horriable. And how some can continue to defend "them" after this is beyond me. I agree and fortunately, a majority of Americans do as well. With the kind of numbers that are coming in against Bush and FEMA, perhaps they will be forced as they were with 9/11 to have an independent investigation.

If we're getting these kinds of opinions from this source, you know this is not just a liberal agenda..

From the Union Leader, hardly a bastion of liberalism and written by none other than Robert Novak:

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=60130


Democrats have seized on the administration's performance in handling Katrina to bash George W. Bush, but Republicans are not much happier with him. The common complaint is that the President has let the lawyers take over. Chertoff, a former federal judge and assistant attorney general, is a quintessential lawyer who has surrounded himself at Homeland Security with more lawyers. Michael D. Brown, who as head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is Chertoff's subordinate, is also a lawyer. Neither Chertoff nor Brown was experienced in politics or large-scale management before joining the Bush administration.



The latest poll numbers show public opinion sliding ever more against Bush as details of this travesty come out:


A Pew Research Center poll found 67 percent of Americans believed Bush could have done more to speed up relief efforts, and just 28 percent believed he did all he could. His approval rating slipped to 40 percent, down four points since July to the lowest point Pew has recorded.

A CBS poll taken Sept. 6-7 found 38 percent approved of Bush's handling of the storm's aftermath, while 58 percent disapproved. That was a dramatic shift from immediately after the storm last week, when 54 percent approved and 12 percent disapproved.


The CBS poll also found confidence in Bush during a crisis had fallen and only 48 percent now view him as a strong leader -- the lowest number ever for Bush in the poll. A year ago 64 percent of voters saw Bush as a strong leader.

These numbers are even worse than the CNN Poll taken a few days earlier.

Of course, they don't give local and state leaders much credit either which just proves the point some of us have been saying all along. No one is blameless, but that includes the President and the men he chose to put in charge.





In the Pew poll, 58 percent thought the federal government had done only a fair or poor job after the storm, but 51 percent also thought state and local governments in Louisiana and Mississippi had done just a fair or poor job

[What the Heck]

I agree and fortunately, a majority of Americans do as well.

...

Of course, they don't give local and state leaders much credit either which just proves the point some of us have been saying all along. No one is blameless, but that includes the President and the men he chose to put in charge.These two sentances don't really match. Your first sentance agrees that

"There are only two answers to this tragedy - either the feds are so incompetent that we are all - as a nation - really up the creek without a paddle. OR the feds just don't care that much about us, as a people.

Either way, it's horriable. And how some can continue to defend "them" after this is beyond me. ".

There isn't anything in this that says that part of the blame rests with the state or local government. Your last sentance, I can agree with all day long, but when people use this disaster to blame the President, that is so wrong that I have to say something. People are blaming him because he didn't evacuate the citizens (that should be part of the Evacuation Plan which is owned by the city) or that he didn't send in enough National Guard troops in time (they belong to the Governor) that he didn't send in military to police the streets (a National Guard function and city police), that he didn't get food and water to everyone (General Honoree says it was because they were still rescuing people and couldn't take them away from that - I tend to believe the General rather that some self serving, headline grabbing wannabe), etc. Like you said, on one is blameless, so why the rush to blame the President?

[Charade]

Bet do you watch national news? I think everyone in this nation with a televison set knew when the levees broke...and that there were thousands of people in the superdome with no food or water or vital medication for DAYS with the mayor and the governor of Lousiana on national televsion BEGGING for federal assistance on national television. I saw it. I saw it Wed. night, and Thur. ...and Friday morning. Did you?

I'm not Bet but I play her on TV... :teeth:

Seems as though the State and Local govt' knew there would be a mass of people showing up at the Superdome. There were also Red Cross supplies ready to go just over the City line but the LA NG wouldn't let them into the city (understandable to a degree). So why wasn't the State and Local govt' prepared to handle that many people and have supplies readily availble for them if they thought they might be there for a while?


There are only two answers to this tragedy - either the feds are so incompetent that we are all - as a nation - really up the creek without a paddle. OR the feds just don't care that much about us, as a people.

No, the third answer is that the State and Local gov't screwed up big time by not using nearly 300 school buses to get people out of the city. Nagin is on record saying that he wanted Greyhound style buses with bathrooms.


That's all I have to say about that. And I won't be responding to this thread anymore.

Ok.

[JudicialTyranny]

and that there were thousands of people in the superdome with no food or water or vital medication for DAYS with the mayor and the governor of Lousiana on national televsion BEGGING for federal assistance on national television. I saw it. I saw it Wed. night, and Thur. ...and Friday morning. Did you?

I didn't see the governor or mayor "begging". But did you know this?


From Fox News broadcast, Sep 7, transcript:

Hume: Standing by, ready. Why didn't FEMA send The Red Cross into New Orleans when we had all of the people there on that bridge overpass and elsewhere. Why not?

Garrett: First of all, no jurisdiction. FEMA works with The Red Cross, The Salvation Army and other organizations but it has no control to order them to go one place or the other. Secondarily, The Red Cross was ready. I got off the phone with one of their officials. They had a vanguard, Brit, of trucks with water, food, hygiene equipment, all sorts of things ready to go where? To the Superdome and convention center. Why weren't they there? The Louisiana Department of Homeland Security told them they could not go.

Hume: This is isn't the Louisiana branch of the federal Homeland Security? This is --

Garrett: The state's own agency devoted to the state's homeland security. They told them you cannot go there. Why? The Red Cross tells me that state agency in Louisiana said, look, we do not want to create a magnet for more people to come to the Superdome or convention center, we want to get them out. So at the same time local officials were screaming where is the food, where is the water? The Red Cross was standing by ready, the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security said you can't go.

Hume: FEMA does, presumably at some point, have some jurisdiction over some military forces. Of course, the first responders there are the National Guard. Why didn't FEMA send the National Guard in? You heard that cry from many people.

Garrett: FEMA does not have jurisdictional control over any state's National Guard, only the governor does. The governor in this case, Kathleen Blanco, A democrat, did use the Louisiana National Guard for some purposes, did not deploy them in massive numbers initially and they were not used to move any of these relief organizations in and they could have been for the very same reason I talked about earlier, the state decided they didn't want the relief organizations where the people needed it most because they wanted those people to get out.


And how about the school buses that were not used by N.O. to evacuate residents?
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/floodedbuses.jpg

Well, here's what the mayor has to say about that:


However, Nagin's most newsworthy comments - where he explained why he didn't used hundreds of city school buses to evacuate his city's flood victims - went almost unnoticed.

Turns out, Nagin turned his nose up at the yellow buses, demanding more comfortable Greyhound coaches instead. "I need 500 buses, man," he told WWL. "One of the briefings we had they were talking about getting, you know, public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out of here."

Nagin described his response:

"I'm like - you've got to be kidding me. This is a natural disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their ***** moving to New Orleans."

While Nagin was waiting for his Greyhound fleet, Katrina's floodwaters swamped his school buses, rendering them unusable.

[Free4Life11]

I'm not surprised by those polls. Bush really let me down...I was disappointed by his leadership and attitude.

[JudicialTyranny]

No, I think this President rewards his buddies, his buddies buddies and his contributors without regard to knowledge, skills or expertise.
Gee, and no previous presidents (or governors or mayors) ever did that... :rotfl2:

[bsnyder]

I didn't see the governor or mayor "begging". But did you know this?



And how about the school buses that were not used by N.O. to evacuate residents?
http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/floodedbuses.jpg

Well, here's what the mayor has to say about that:

Even if he didn't use them BEFORE the storm, to evacuate the residents of New Orleans, at least have the common sense to move them to higher ground so they could be of some use after the storm.

[bsnyder]

I'm not Bet but I play her on TV... :teeth:



How many times do I have to tell you to stop impersonating me? :)

[totalia]

Bet do you watch national news? I think everyone in this nation with a televison set knew when the levees broke...and that there were thousands of people in the superdome with no food or water or vital medication for DAYS with the mayor and the governor of Lousiana on national televsion BEGGING for federal assistance on national television. I saw it. I saw it Wed. night, and Thur. ...and Friday morning. Did you?

Does "FEMA" watch the news? Did W? Is our federal government so much out of touch that they don't know how to flip on a television set?

There are only two answers to this tragedy - either the feds are so incompetent that we are all - as a nation - really up the creek without a paddle. OR the feds just don't care that much about us, as a people.

Either way, it's horriable. And how some can continue to defend "them" after this is beyond me.

That's all I have to say about that. And I won't be responding to this thread anymore.

*claps* Totally and utterly agree.

[WDWBetsy]

Even if he didn't use them BEFORE the storm, to evacuate the residents of New Orleans, at least have the common sense to move them to higher ground so they could be of some use after the storm.

I know you'll be shocked - but I have to agree with you, Bet.

Have you seen any explanation of why the buses weren't used?

[peachgirl]

Gee, and no previous presidents (or governors or mayors) ever did that... :rotfl2:

I am so tired of that excuse...Bush is awful but it's ok because I can find someone else who is awful too.

What you're saying is that you agree with the OP, Bush did indeed make appointments with no regard to expertise, but that's ok because you think other Presidents have done it too.

I'd hate to think that's the best defense I could come up with.

These two sentances don't really match

I agree with the post in regards to Bush and the Federal gov't and that's what I took the poster to mean. They're either inept bumblers or they don't give a damn. That doesn't have anything to do whether or not the local and state officials share some blame.

As I said yesterday, there's no need to continually repeat the opinion that the state and local gov'ts bear some blame. It's a given, no one disagrees so there's no reason to try and convince anyone of it.

The only disagreement seems to be with those who insist the President and his appointees are totally and completely blameless.
Fortunately, most Americans don't agree.

[totalia]

Does it strike anyone that its rather ridiculous to claim that only Katrina caused a problem?

Stating the obvious don't you think?

NO one is advocating that Katrina didn't cause a problem. The discussion is about whether gvt representatives are qualified to handle disaster relief.

[bsnyder]

I am so tired of that excuse...Bush is awful but it's ok because I can find someone else who is awful too.

What you're saying is that you agree with the OP, Bush did indeed make appointments with no regard to expertise, but that's ok because you think other Presidents have done it too.

I'd hate to think that's the best defense I could come up with.



I agree with the post in regards to Bush and the Federal gov't and that's what I took the poster to mean. They're either inept bumblers or they don't give a damn. That doesn't have anything to do whether or not the local and state officials share some blame.

As I said yesterday, there's no need to continually repeat the opinion that the state and local gov'ts bear some blame. It's a given, no one disagrees so there's no reason to try and convince anyone of it.

The only disagreement seems to be with those who insist the President and his appointees are totally and completely blameless.
Fortunately, most Americans don't agree.

So if the state and local governments share the blame, are they inept bumblers, or do they just not give a damn?

[bsnyder]

I know you'll be shocked - but I have to agree with you, Bet.

Have you seen any explanation of why the buses weren't used?

No, I haven't, but that's probably because no one in the mainstream media has bothered to ask the question. They're too busy blaming Bush and FEMA for everything.

[peachgirl]

So if the state and local governments share the blame, are they inept bumblers, or do they just not give a damn?

I don't know the answer to that any more than I know the answer on the Federal level.

That's what an independent investigation might just show us.

[bsnyder]

I don't know the answer to that any more than I know the answer on the Federal level.

That's what an independent investigation might just show us.

But it's one or the other, right? No other possibilities?

[WDWBetsy]

No, I haven't, but that's probably because no one in the mainstream media has bothered to ask the question. They're too busy blaming Bush and FEMA for everything.

CNN is reporting on the state & local efforts as I type this. About the breakdown in the response. They even brought up the Red Cross not being allowed in to help - the Red Cross spokesperson said they were obeying a military order.

They all (local, state & federal) share the blame. I'm still worried about the next disaster.

[bsnyder]

I'm still worried about the next disaster.

Me too! Ophelia is now a hurricane.

[WDWBetsy]

Me too! Ophelia is now a hurricane.

I've been watching the weather reports. Everyone in its path - stay safe. :grouphug: And keep a bunch of water & non-perishables nearby - that's what I've learned!! :dog2:

[peachgirl]

But it's one or the other, right? No other possibilities?


Well, if you could name them for me I'll be happy to let you know if there was a possibility I didn't consider.


It is a hard choice though. On the face of it, I'd call Bush an inept bumbler, but then I keep seeing that picture in my head of him on vacation, sharing birthday cake and playing the guitar while babies were dying and I want to say he just doesn't give a damn...tough choices.

Definitely leaning towards bumblers for the local and state though. I don't recall any of them on vacation while people's entire lives were destroyed.

I do hope Ophelia decides to head out into the ocean. I think everyone has had just about as much as they can take. Stay safe everyone and be prepared!

[Geoff_M]

peachgirl,

To help with your mental imagery, here's another photo from Bush's "vacation" scrapbook...

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/afpji/20050829/050829113313.s4uzdenc2_president_george_w_bush_r_a nd_deputy_chief_of_stafb.jpg

President George W. Bush (R) looks at a map as Deputy Chief of Staff Joe Hagin looks on during a video teleconference with federal and state emergency management organizations on Hurricane Katrina at Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas. Hurricane Katrina has claimed its first victims in Louisiana as it neared landfall, dumping torrential rain on the southern state and other parts of the US Gulf of Mexico coast and threatening death and massive destruction. AFP/Paul Morse

[Charade]

peachgirl,

To help with your mental imagery, here's another photo from Bush's "vacation" scrapbook...

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/afpji/20050829/050829113313.s4uzdenc2_president_george_w_bush_r_a nd_deputy_chief_of_stafb.jpg

President George W. Bush (R) looks at a map as Deputy Chief of Staff Joe Hagin looks on during a video teleconference with federal and state emergency management organizations on Hurricane Katrina at Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas. Hurricane Katrina has claimed its first victims in Louisiana as it neared landfall, dumping torrential rain on the southern state and other parts of the US Gulf of Mexico coast and threatening death and massive destruction. AFP/Paul Morse


Oh come on Geoff, we all know that was staged for a photo op. :rotfl2:

[peachgirl]

Oh come on Geoff, we all know that was staged for a photo op. :rotfl2:

Maybe, maybe not. What we do know is that Brown's resume apparently was...shall we say padded?

Oh heck, let's just call a spade a spade....it contains many falsehoods and inaccuracies.

Surprise, surprise..huh?

[WDWBetsy]

Maybe, maybe not. What we do know is that Brown's resume apparently was...shall we say padded?

Oh heck, let's just call a spade a spade....it contains many falsehoods and inaccuracies.

Surprise, surprise..huh?

Don't employers perform background checks or check references? ;)

[peachgirl]

Don't employers perform background checks or check references? ;)

Hey, it's a hard job! Besides, it's easy to see how one could confuse being a intern while in college with being an assistant city manager, right?:teeth:

After all, isn't being an assistant TO the city manager the same thing as THE assistant city manager?:rotfl2:

And then one can easily see that you could confuse being a student with being a professor? I mean they both are found at a university, right?
Ok, so explaining away how he could have possibly received the Outstanding Political Science Professor award when he was a student might be a little difficult, but hey, what are a few lies between buddies?

And ok, so he really wasn't the director of a nursing home, but maybe his mom was in one....that's pretty darn close!

And that extensive law work...C'mon, let's not be picky...transactional work...litigation...it's all the same isn't it and why bother to mention that you were let go from the firm?

Picky, picky, picky!!

Background checks, smackground checks! Who needs 'em when you have friends!!

[WDWBetsy]

Hey, it's a hard job! Besides, it's easy to see how one could confuse being a intern while in college with being an assistant city manager, right?:teeth:

After all, isn't being an assistant TO the city manager the same thing as THE assistant city manager?:rotfl2:

And then one can easily see that you could confuse being a student with being a professor? I mean they both are found at a university, right?
Ok, so explaining away how he could have possibly received the Outstanding Political Science Professor award when he was a student might be a little difficult, but hey, what are a few lies between buddies?

And ok, so he really wasn't the director of a nursing home, but maybe his mom was in one....that's pretty darn close!

And that extensive law work...C'mon, let's not be picky...transactional work...litigation...it's all the same isn't it and why bother to mention that you were let go from the firm?

Picky, picky, picky!!

Background checks, smackground checks! Who needs 'em when you have friends!!


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[peachgirl]

Actually, his background is a bit more relevant to government service than that:

Mr. Brown served as FEMA's Deputy Director and the agency's General Counsel. Shortly after the September 11th terrorist attacks, Mr. Brown served on the President's Consequence Management Principal's Committee, which acted as the White House's policy coordination group for the federal domestic response to the attacks. Later, the President asked him to head the Consequence Management Working Group to identify and resolve key issues regarding the federal response plan. In August 2002, President Bush appointed him to the Transition Planning Office for the new Department of Homeland Security, serving as the transition leader for the EP&R Division.

Prior to joining FEMA, Mr. Brown practiced law in Colorado and Oklahoma, where he served as a bar examiner on ethics and professional responsibility for the Oklahoma Supreme Court and as a hearing examiner for the Colorado Supreme Court. He had been appointed as a special prosecutor in police disciplinary matters. While attending law school he was appointed by the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee of the Oklahoma Legislature as the Finance Committee Staff Director, where he oversaw state fiscal issues. His background in state and local government also includes serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight and as a city councilman.

You might want to reconsider now that there seem to be some discrepancies in that resume.

[BriarfoxinWA]

Report: FEMA chief’s bio overstates experience
City that hired him says he was ‘more like an intern,’ Time reports


Here's where you can find the full article....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9266986/

[sodaseller]

Don't employers perform background checks or check references? ;)
Yes, his backround was thoroughly vetted. His help with the Bush campaign was confirmed before he was ever appointed.

[sodaseller]

I think when all the investigating is completed, we'll find out that this is indeed what the federal officials meant when they said the levee breech was a suprise. Not that it wasn't a scenario that was considered, but that it appeared, at first, that the worst case hadn't materialized. That's what everyone on the ground, in the meda, was reporting on Monday, and most of Tuesday.

And it will be interesting to find out exactly when the state and local officials let FEMA known that the levees had given way.
If the investigation is conducted like the Congressional investigations on intelligence failures in Iraq, you are certainly correct. We will learn yet again that the President has been victimized by others, that his superior judgment and instincts were stymied by lesser beings that he was powerless to direct. His ability to steward DHS as a bold commander was extremely useful in the 2002 midterms. But we will learn that, yet again, despite his best intentions and efforts, those lazy civil servant government types were unresponsive to the mission. And urban areas and their leaders - enough said! Even if those officials were big supporters of his!

Maybe Pat Roberts can issue an interim report on the failures of state and local government preplanning, with the "full" report on the federal role to follow later. That's a promise you can bank on. Because truth is preeminent.

And let's never forget the talking points - actually investigating is playing the "blame game". The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, the Challenger and Titanic Commissions - just politics. Our infantilized electorate cannot be held to actually exercise popular sovereignty - their nerves are far too delicate.

[peachgirl]

It's not just Brown's false resume that should be of concern. Apparently 5 of the 8 regional directors have no experience in handling disaster situations..but they all have political ties to the President.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9261552/



Five of eight top Federal Emergency Management Agency officials came to their posts with virtually no experience in handling disasters and now lead an agency whose ranks of seasoned crisis managers have thinned dramatically since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

FEMA's top three leaders -- Director Michael D. Brown, Chief of Staff Patrick J. Rhode and Deputy Chief of Staff Brooks D. Altshuler -- arrived with ties to President Bush's 2000 campaign or to the White House advance operation, according to the agency. Two other senior operational jobs are filled by a former Republican lieutenant governor of Nebraska and a U.S. Chamber of Commerce official who was once a political operative.

[JerJan]

Actually, his background is a bit more relevant to government service than that:

Mr. Brown served as FEMA's Deputy Director and the agency's General Counsel. Shortly after the September 11th terrorist attacks, Mr. Brown served on the President's Consequence Management Principal's Committee, which acted as the White House's policy coordination group for the federal domestic response to the attacks. Later, the President asked him to head the Consequence Management Working Group to identify and resolve key issues regarding the federal response plan. In August 2002, President Bush appointed him to the Transition Planning Office for the new Department of Homeland Security, serving as the transition leader for the EP&R Division.

Prior to joining FEMA, Mr. Brown practiced law in Colorado and Oklahoma, where he served as a bar examiner on ethics and professional responsibility for the Oklahoma Supreme Court and as a hearing examiner for the Colorado Supreme Court. He had been appointed as a special prosecutor in police disciplinary matters. While attending law school he was appointed by the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee of the Oklahoma Legislature as the Finance Committee Staff Director, where he oversaw state fiscal issues. His background in state and local government also includes serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight and as a city councilman.

He lied about being an "ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER" he was actually an "ASSISTANT for the CITY MANAGER" Like an administrative assistant. Read the following from the MSN homepage:

Brown's biography on the Federal Emergency Management Agency Web site says he had once served as an "assistant city manager with emergency services oversight," and a White House news release in 2001 said Brown had worked for the city of Edmond, Okla., in the 1970s "overseeing the emergency-services division."

However, a city spokeswoman told the magazine Brown had actually worked as "an assistant to the city manager."
"The assistant is more like an intern," Claudia Deakins told the magazine. "Department heads did not report to him." Time posted the article on its Web site late on Thursday.

A former mayor of Edmond, Randel Shadid, confirmed that Friday. Shadid told The Associated Press that Brown had been an assistant to the city manager, and never assistant city manager.

“I think there’s a difference between the two positions,” said Shadid. “I would think that is a discrepancy.”

[leight]

He's being sent back to D.C. Now a Thad Allen- Vice Admiral of the Coast Guard will be Heading the Federal Relief.

[BriarfoxinWA]

WHAT! They've replaced him???!!! :cheer2: :cheer2: :cheer2:

[Laugh O. Grams]

He lied about being an "ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER" he was actually an "ASSISTANT for the CITY MANAGER" Like an administrative assistant.
Not to take away from the seriousness of the thread or to highjack it in anyway, but it reminds me of the powerhungry moron, "Dwight" from the TV show The Office...the American version! So these kind of people actually do exist in the real world!
http://www.nbc.com/nbc/The_Office/images/office_hotgirl_deleted.jpg

[Geoff_M]

So the assumption is that Brown also serves as the FEMA webmaster?

[Galahad]

He lied about being an "ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER" he was actually an "ASSISTANT for the CITY MANAGER" Like an administrative assistant.

To be fair, Assistant to the City Manager is not an administrative assistant position.

[swilphil]

According to the person in Oklahoma that Brown worked for, it is like an administrative assistant. He also compared it to an intern position (Brown was still in college when he took the job). Brown also didn't oversee emergency services in that job as his bio states.

[peachgirl]

To be fair, Assistant to the City Manager is not an administrative assistant position.

That's exactly how the City Manager he worked for described it. Also, keep in mind that Edmond is not exactly a bustling metropolis..it's a little suburb of OKC.

"Yes. Mike Brown worked for me. He was my administrative assistant. He was a student at Central State University," recalls former city manager Bill Dashner. "Mike used to handle a lot of details. Every now and again I'd ask him to write me a speech. He was very loyal. He was always on time. He always had on a suit and a starched white shirt."

[What the Heck]

I agree with the post in regards to Bush and the Federal gov't and that's what I took the poster to mean. They're either inept bumblers or they don't give a damn. That doesn't have anything to do whether or not the local and state officials share some blame.

As I said yesterday, there's no need to continually repeat the opinion that the state and local gov'ts bear some blame. It's a given, no one disagrees so there's no reason to try and convince anyone of it.

The only disagreement seems to be with those who insist the President and his appointees are totally and completely blameless.
Fortunately, most Americans don't agree.I don't think anyone is really saying that Bush and the Federal government didn't do anything wrong - if for nothing else his appointment of Brown and his placing FEMA in with Homeland Security.

What gets to me is when things that are the Governors responsibility or the Mayors is placed at the President's door, such as the initial non-response on Monday and Tuesday. If what is coming out is true, then the Governor needs to fire her Homeland Security chief and anyone connected with not allowing the Red Cross in with food and water - but many say that it was Bush's fault.

[ThAnswr]

If the investigation is conducted like the Congressional investigations on intelligence failures in Iraq, you are certainly correct. We will learn yet again that the President has been victimized by others, that his superior judgment and instincts were stymied by lesser beings that he was powerless to direct. His ability to steward DHS as a bold commander was extremely useful in the 2002 midterms. But we will learn that, yet again, despite his best intentions and efforts, those lazy civil servant government types were unresponsive to the mission. And urban areas and their leaders - enough said! Even if those officials were big supporters of his!

Maybe Pat Roberts can issue an interim report on the failures of state and local government preplanning, with the "full" report on the federal role to follow later. That's a promise you can bank on. Because truth is preeminent.

And let's never forget the talking points - actually investigating is playing the "blame game". The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, the Challenger and Titanic Commissions - just politics. Our infantilized electorate cannot be held to actually exercise popular sovereignty - their nerves are far too delicate.

The question: Is Bush driving the turnip truck or is he a passenger in the back seat?

The answer: Depends.

[What the Heck]

If the investigation is conducted like the Congressional investigations on intelligence failures in Iraq, you are certainly correct. We will learn yet again that the President has been victimized by others, that his superior judgment and instincts were stymied by lesser beings that he was powerless to direct. His ability to steward DHS as a bold commander was extremely useful in the 2002 midterms. But we will learn that, yet again, despite his best intentions and efforts, those lazy civil servant government types were unresponsive to the mission. And urban areas and their leaders - enough said! Even if those officials were big supporters of his!

Maybe Pat Roberts can issue an interim report on the failures of state and local government preplanning, with the "full" report on the federal role to follow later. That's a promise you can bank on. Because truth is preeminent.

And let's never forget the talking points - actually investigating is playing the "blame game". The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, the Challenger and Titanic Commissions - just politics. Our infantilized electorate cannot be held to actually exercise popular sovereignty - their nerves are far too delicate.Why is it that because some want to wait until the people needed for an investigation aren't up to their eyeballs in a cesspool means that it becomes a talking point that "investigating is playing the blame game""? I don't think anyone says there should not be an investigation. At the very least, we need to know what went right and why and what went wrong and why - to look at the process, not to blame. As ThAnswer said in one of her posts (and you didn't think I was listening) this can happen again, and Florida is a major target for hurricanes. My concern for who did what wrong is secondary to my concern for what went wrong with the process.

And before my thread gets jumped on that I'm just saying that because I want to deflect the blame from Bush, anyone who has seen my previous posts knows that I believe there is some blame for the President, but, compared to the other participants (Govenor and Mayor), only a little. I really don't care at this point. Let the blame come after the process is fixed.

I think that how the investigation is conducted will play a big part on if it becomes a "he said, she said" argument. Personally, I don't trust the politicians to be able to pull it off. I think both sides have people who are more statesman than politician (such as Colin Powell), and if we could get a few people like that on the committee rather than party hacks from either side, looking at the whole picture instead of just what went wrong with the federal government as I've heard Ms. Clinton would have us do. Any investigation that doesn't look at the whole picture will leave us vulnerable to another disaster, kinda like fixing only one leg of a three legged chair. If the other 2 are broke as well, you still don't have it working.

[ThAnswr]

Why is it that because some want to wait until the people needed for an investigation aren't up to their eyeballs in a cesspool means that it becomes a talking point that "investigating is playing the blame game""? I don't think anyone says there should not be an investigation. At the very least, we need to know what went right and why and what went wrong and why - to look at the process, not to blame. As ThAnswer said in one of her posts (and you didn't think I was listening) this can happen again, and Florida is a major target for hurricanes. My concern for who did what wrong is secondary to my concern for what went wrong with the process.

And before my thread gets jumped on that I'm just saying that because I want to deflect the blame from Bush, anyone who has seen my previous posts knows that I believe there is some blame for the President, but, compared to the other participants (Govenor and Mayor), only a little. I really don't care at this point. Let the blame come after the process is fixed.

I think that how the investigation is conducted will play a big part on if it becomes a "he said, she said" argument. Personally, I don't trust the politicians to be able to pull it off. I think both sides have people who are more statesman than politician (such as Colin Powell), and if we could get a few people like that on the committee rather than party hacks from either side, looking at the whole picture instead of just what went wrong with the federal government as I've heard Ms. Clinton would have us do. Any investigation that doesn't look at the whole picture will leave us vulnerable to another disaster, kinda like fixing only one leg of a three legged chair. If the other 2 are broke as well, you still don't have it working.

In it's first test, after 9/11 and the spending of 22 billion dollars, the Department of Homeland Security failed. There were no communications, there was no access to the city, and obviously there was no plan.

This could very easily have been a terrorist attack. Obviously, other than a nifty color code, the Department of Homeland Security is another Bush flop.

[What the Heck]

In it's first test, after 9/11 and the spending of 22 billion dollars, the Department of Homeland Security failed. There were no communications, there was no access to the city, and obviously there was no plan.

This could very easily have been a terrorist attack. Obviously, other than a nifty color code, the Department of Homeland Security is another Bush flop.But it wasn't a terrorist attack, and different rules apply. Obviously, this is a state and local government flop.

[JerJan]

But it wasn't a terrorist attack, and different rules apply. Obviously, this is a state and local government flop.

Are you kidding me??? :confused3 Get your head out of the sand....are these people's lives any less valuable because they were victims of a disaster and not a terrorist attack???? Homeland Security's job is to secure the homeland and to keep ALL of the citizens of the USA safe........they failed miserably to obtain that goal, do you feel safer now???

[What the Heck]

Are you kidding me??? :confused3 Get your head out of the sand....are these people's lives any less valuable because they were victims of a disaster and not a terrorist attack???? Homeland Security's job is to secure the homeland and to keep ALL of the citizens of the USA safe........they failed miserably to obtain that goal, do you feel safer now???Oh thats right, I forgot, remind me again - when was National Martial Law declared? When did the federal government take control of ALL state and local governments? When did they assume responsibility for it?

Exactly where did I say their lives were less valuable? Of course, if I wanted to take a hysterical stance, I could say that the lives were less valuable to the state and local governments. It would be wrong to say it, it would be untrue, but gee, if it makes the argument that much more powerful, hey go for it.

Homeland Security's job is to secure the homeland? Really? When did we invent that brand new hurricane stopper? Exactly how does it work? Why didn't they use it? And the state and local governments should just be there for traffic tickets, with no concern or responsiblity for the safety of their citizens?

I've asked again and again - how much power do you want to give this President that you claim is so incompetant? Do you really want him to have the authority to put aside state laws?

[WDWBetsy]

Homeland Security's job is to secure the homeland? Really? When did we invent that brand new hurricane stopper? Exactly how does it work? Why didn't they use it? And the state and local governments should just be there for traffic tickets, with no concern or responsiblity for the safety of their citizens?


Well, since you asked, I will direct you to the Homeland Security website (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp), where this paragraph tells us (the bold is mine):

Preparing America

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

AND

A Guide to the Disaster Declaration Process and Federal Disaster Assistance (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=16&content=353)
Local and State governments share the responsibility for protecting their citizens from disasters, and for helping them to recover when a disaster strikes. In some cases, a disaster is beyond the capabilities of the State and local government to respond.

I believe the March 1st reference is due to FEMA being under Homeland Security at that point.

[What the Heck]

Well, since you asked, I will direct you to the Homeland Security website (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp), where this paragraph tells us (the bold is mine):

Preparing America

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

AND

A Guide to the Disaster Declaration Process and Federal Disaster Assistance (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=16&content=353)
Local and State governments share the responsibility for protecting their citizens from disasters, and for helping them to recover when a disaster strikes. In some cases, a disaster is beyond the capabilities of the State and local government to respond.

I believe the March 1st reference is due to FEMA being under Homeland Security at that point.It also says:

Emphasis on Local Response

All incidents are handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level. Police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel are responsible for incident management at the local level. For those events that rise to the level of an Incident of National Significance, the Department of Homeland Security provides operational and/or resource coordination for Federal support to on-scene incident command structures.

[JerJan]

This is from HOMELAND SECURITY's website:

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

Preparing America

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

By the way most of this "DISATER" was not caused by Hurricane Katrina...(thus, no "hurricane stopper" would be necessary). The problem was caused by the failed levees that the federal government (republican & democratic)diverted funds from to fix the problem of a potential disaster.

[What the Heck]

This is from HOMELAND SECURITY's website:So was what I posted, from the NRP.

[Jennifer S]

well - he no longer is now. Just resigned