It's Gods punishment?

[Serena]

I know there was a thread here somewhere but I didn't see it.

What is wrong with people that they are blaming this disaster on the people of New Orleans?
I just caused a ruckus at my family gathering because I disagreed with the paster of the church some of them go to.
He said it's punishment for the evil people.

It made me mad. It didn't take much to silence the whole group. I don't normally voice my opinions so much, especially since it was my dad that was repeating the nonsense. I may never be invited again.

[Kim&Chris]

I know there was a thread here somewhere but I didn't see it.

What is wrong with people that they are blaming this disaster on the people of New Orleans?
I just caused a ruckus at my family gathering because I disagreed with the paster of the church some of them go to.
He said it's punishment for the evil people.

It made me mad. It didn't take much to silence the whole group. I don't normally voice my opinions so much, especially since it was my dad that was repeating the nonsense. I may never be invited again.


PUNISHMENT FOR THE EVIL PEOPLE???!!! That's the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. Soon, people will be saying that aliens caused it. What about the divorce of Brad & Jen??? I'm sure that had something to do with it as well.

[Serena]

I know, totally ridiculous.

[delswife]

I may never be invited again

Doesn't sound like a place I would want to go back too.

I don't think it was a punishment for evil people at all. I think I heard it was a hurricaine. :confused3


What about the children and elderly involved? What did they do?

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

No, no, no! It is a BLESSING from God! This is the way all of those people will be delivered from poverty and despair! The future is perfect!

At least that's what the pastor around here was telling the evacuees. :confused3

[eeyore kelly]

I understand, Serena, that you don't believe in that nonsense, and three cheers for you for confronting them.

I find such judgmental beliefs hurtful and offensive.

I think I heard it was a hurricaine.

I am fairly sure it was a hurricane.

[totalia]

Its just a stupid idiotic thing to say that its gods punishment. I thought Christians are supposed to be loving and giving. Someone who says that definately isn't.

[Mermaid02]

What a load of ***something bad*** Good for you for saying something!

[SherryNC]

Bad things happen to good people. :guilty: I never did like the expression "instill the fear of God in people", but it seems like that's what comments like that are meant to do. :sad2: Not very good motivation to seek the Lord in my opinion, but it seems to drive some people. :confused3

[J.C.&ALI'SMOM]

If this was the case then why are LA and NYC still standing???? Certainly they are just as "evil" as The Big Easy!

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If this was the case then why are LA and NYC still standing???? Certainly they are just as "evil" as The Big Easy!

and Las Vegas of course. ;) Lots lots lots more places to gamble.

[totalia]

How about any town that has a casino or bingo hall? Or sells alcohol anywhere in town. We must all deserve it then.

[Aidensmom]

People who preach (or believe) such things are an embarrassment to me as a Christian. If God sent natural disasters to punish anyone who ever did something "wrong", we would all be victims.

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Every good and perfect gift is from God in which there is no deviation or shifting shadow.

God does not send disasters.

Some preachers should be ashamed of themselves. :sad2:

[JimMIA]

People who preach (or believe) such things are an embarrassment to me as a Christian. ...and as an American...and as a human being...

Good job, Serena! :cool1:

If they don't invite you back to their gatherings, you are certainly welcome at mine anytime.

[Saffron]

Were you partying with Pat Robertson again? ;)

[Serena]

LOL thank you.

Actually Maggie, it was family. Family that have very short memories. Having some of them speak like that makes me sick to my stomach. I'm surprised some of them dare to walk into a church, let alone look down on someone else because of morals. hah!

[Tiggerlover91]

Okay, I hope this comes out right and please forgive me if this comes out wrong:

Hurricanes are NATURAL disasters.....anything NATURAL is created by GOD....however, ALL things happen for a reason and NO ONE truly understands why HE works the way HE does.

Do I believe GOD sent this hurricane...ABSOLUTELY it's a NATURAL thing, do I think HE was punishing those in NO for their sin and wrong doings....uh no....HE IS NOT a punishing GOD.

There's a blessing in everthing whether we chose to see it or not. I know many have died and many have lost in this disaster...HOWEVER, GOD is still GOD and in the end SOMETHING good has to come of all of this. Look what 911 did for this country....brought so many of us closer together and made so many of so much more aware of what's going on around us.

Forgive me if this comes across the wrong way to any of you. I don't mean to offend. :blush: I HAVE to look for something good to come out of this so I don't continue to be as sad as I was when this first happened.

Blessings to all of you,

Denise :wave:

[Betsyt82]

Now here is my take on this subject....

In nature there are many set patterns that are part of the natural world that were instilled on earth to run when certain variables come into play. Like bad storms when the waters get warm....frontal boundries that cause tornados when the conditions are right.... When the plates of the earth move we get earth quakes and so forth. We as humans choose to live in places that have these naturaly occuring things. They are not(in my estimation) sent to cleanse the population because of "bad" people, or evil places....it is just part of the natural order of things. SO if we live where there are risks associated to nature we have to realize this and do the best we can in those areas or find some where else to live. It is just the randomness of nature....not a devine plan to punish people.

[jfulcer]

The problem is the bible has accounts of how peoples were destroyed for not 'following God'. Noah and the great flood is an example. It just takes a few freaks to take that a step further and assume that God *is* punishing people now for their sins - even though we all know Jesus died for our sins already.

These aren't the same people that were protesting at the soldier's funerals are they ??

[DisneyDotty]

Now here is my take on this subject....

In nature there are many set patterns that are part of the natural world that were instilled on earth to run when certain variables come into play. Like bad storms when the waters get warm....frontal boundries that cause tornados when the conditions are right.... When the plates of the earth move we get earth quakes and so forth. We as humans choose to live in places that have these naturaly occuring things. They are not(in my estimation) sent to cleanse the population because of "bad" people, or evil places....it is just part of the natural order of things. SO if we live where there are risks associated to nature we have to realize this and do the best we can in those areas or find some where else to live. It is just the randomness of nature....not a devine plan to punish people.

What she said.

[themepark]

There isn't any more evil in New Orleans than there is anywhere else. So that reasoning is a bunch of hooey. Only simple-minded, pompous, and hypocritical people would make such statements about this being punishment from God. Good for you for standing up to them!

[wvrevy]

God does not send disasters.

SURE he does...Says so right there in the book. :rolleyes: Plagues...floods...earthquakes...it's all in there.

Why should anybody be surprised that there are ignorant people out there spouting this kind of nonsense ? We had two well known religious personalities in this country say, just as the terrorists themselves believed, that the 9/11 attacks were brought on by America turning our back to "god". Why on earth would anybody be surprised that ignorant people are continuing to prove their ignorance ?

[ducklite]

He said it's punishment for the evil people.



The guy is smoking the pipe, and anyone who believes this type of rubbish is smoking it too. Sorry, an entire population geographical region isn't "evil"

That's one of the most obscenely absurd things I've ever heard.

Anne

[wvrevy]

The guy is smoking the pipe, and anyone who believes this type of rubbish is smoking it too. Sorry, an entire population geographical region isn't "evil"

That's one of the most obscenely absurd things I've ever heard.

Anne

Again, it's in the bible that "god" has done this in the past. In fact, he's done much worse, including deliberately targeting children for death as punishment to their parents.

If you believe one (the bible), then why not believe the rest ? :confused3

[lbgraves]

What a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites! :( Whatever happened to casting the first stone?

[Charade]

God does not send disasters.

:

Sodom and Gomorrah?

[wvrevy]

What a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites! :( Whatever happened to casting the first stone?
But...but...they really like the stone-throwin' part, and if they stuck to that there wouldn't be no more stone-throwin'...and they do love them some stone-throwin'...

;)

[WDWHound]

In our church this week, we had 4 guests who had evacuated from New Orleans. They are relatives of one of our members. One of them is a Methodist minister. When she was asked to say a few words, this is roughly what she said (to the best of my memory, I really wish I had written it down).

"I called a friend of mine who is a fellow minister in Louisinna to see how he was doing. He said his church and some homes had taken wind damage, but there was no flooding and for that they felt blessed. Thats when it came to me. My home is under 20 feet of water and the state of my church building probably just as bad, but I am blessed. I have lost most everything I own, but I have the things that matter. I told him that when people ask about me, tell them I am not just fine, but blessed. I have the love of my familiy and friends and, more importantly, I have the love and strength of my God. Yes, I am blessed."

Did God send the storm? Personally, I don't think so. I do know that that I have met 4 people who God was standing by after the storm. Thats where my focus will be when I think about God and the hurricane, on those who are finding strength in him and on a remarkable women who after losing everything, still calls herself blessed because of the powerful and sustaining love of God.

[cteddiesgirl]

I'm glad you stood up and said something. I really wish that some of these people would reach the Age of Enlightenment.

Many people take the Bible (Old and New) way too literally. Almost nothing in the Bible can be either proven or disproven. It is a book written by men. Not God. It is a collection of stories. Many of which were around in various forms and religions for centuries before the Old Testament was ever written.

It is meant to be a guideline and not the absolute.
Unfortunately, many people are more focused on being religious rather than spiritual. :rolleyes:

[wvrevy]

If god hogs the credit, then why not the blame ? Seems to me that the hurricane was more an act of god than the rescue, which was handled by fellow MEN, not divine providence.

Seems strikingly simple, to me. :rolleyes1

[mom2alix]

In our church this week, we had 4 guests who had evacuated from New Orleans. They are relatives of one of our members. One of them is a Methodist minister. When she was asked to say a few words, this is roughly what she said (to the best of my memory).

"I called a friend of mine who is a fellow minister in Louisinna to see how hew was doing. He said he church and some home had taken some wind damage, but there was no flooding and that they were blessed. Thats when it came to me. My home is under 20 feet of water and the state of my church building probably just as bad, but I am blessed. I have lost most everything I own, but I have the things that matter. I have the love of my familiy and friends and, more importantly, I have the love and strength of my God. Yes, I am blessed."

Did God send the storm? Personally, I don't think so. I do know that that I met 4 people who God was standing by this weekend. Thats where my focus will be, on those who are finding strength in him and on a remarkable women who after losing everything, still calls herself bless because of the powerful and sustaining love of God.
Your friend sounds like a great person and a true Christian.

Serena, perhaps you should send a copy of the new testament to your Dad's pastor. Tell him it's a good read, he should try it. ;)

[ducklite]

Again, it's in the bible that "god" has done this in the past. In fact, he's done much worse, including deliberately targeting children for death as punishment to their parents.

If you believe one (the bible), then why not believe the rest ? :confused3

I prefer to believe that there is a constant struggle between God and Satan, and this time Satan won.

Anne

[wvrevy]

I prefer to believe that there is a constant struggle between God and Satan, and this time Satan won.

Anne
Satan can't win unless god allows it...one of the benefits of being omnipotent.

[Lessa of Pern]

a dear friend of mine...who is too busy feeding refugees at the Astrodome right now to post this himself...sent the following article to me:

THROUGH JEWISH EYES

by Chaim Steinmetz

The images of suffering are overwhelming. Watching TV coverage of Hurricane Katrina you can feel the anguish of the victims of this awful disaster. An unpredictable confluence of circumstances brought about a "perfect storm" that killed thousands and left hundreds of thousands homeless. Katrina is a true human catastrophe.

Unpredictable as this hurricane may have been, the human reactions to it are all too predictable. Immediately, there is finger-pointing.

On the political front, President George W. Bush is blamed for a variety of failures ranging from a slow response to the disaster to having caused the global warming which led to the hurricane. Religious authorities with agendas of their own come to speak in God's name and blame the catastrophe on their opponents. A group called Repentance America said it was God's retribution for New Orleans being a "sin city." Repentance America did not issue any explanation of why the hurricane managed to miss Las Vegas.

On the Internet a popular Israeli rabbi is sure that this catastrophe is retribution for American support for the disengagement from Gaza. I found this opinion curious; the sobbing woman I watched on CNN who had lost her daughter and was searching for her missing sons didn't strike me as a supporter of the disengagement.

And, of course, radical Islam couldn't miss this opportunity to dump on America either. A high-ranking Kuwaiti official, Muhammad Yousef Al-Mlaifi, said: "It is almost certain that this is a wind of torment and evil that Allah has sent to this American empire."

This confident explanation was issued a day after hundreds of Muslims were stampeded to death in Iraq.

These finger-pointing explanations are not only deeply flawed, they are also deeply insensitive. The Talmud says that anyone who gives a grieving person an explanation that the victim's sins caused his own suffering violates the prohibition of verbal abuse. Many Jewish philosophers wrestle with the question, "Why do bad things happen to good people?"

Some explanations do consider man's culpability. However, what is misunderstood is that their explorations are meant to defend God's goodness, not torment victims of suffering by blaming them for the crime.

IN FACT, even the entire project of defending God's goodness is suspect. First of all, God does not need a defense attorney; He can make a case for himself. And God continues to make a case for himself in every sunrise, every leaf, every breath we take.

Furthermore, any explanation we can offer will seem meaningless to sufferers. Those who are suffering feel their pain on a personal level; abstract explanations do nothing to alleviate their pain.

Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik offers a very different view of a Jewish response to suffering. He says that the question of why bad things happen to good people is unfathomable. Even worse, any answer offered will imply that we should passively accept our fate and assume that God did everything for the best.

Soloveitchik points out that, on the contrary, Judaism actually refuses to make peace with death and tragedy. When someone dies, Jewish law requires that we mourn bitterly and tear our clothes. This is because Judaism demands that we be enraged by tragedy.

To Rabbi Soloveitchik, the real question that has to be asked is: How do I respond to tragedy? Our obligation in the face of a catastrophe is to act: to comfort and aid those who have suffered, and to use human creativity to prevent future catastrophes. The only Jewish response to tragedy is to restore human dignity and rebuild the world.

The response to this tragedy is, rather than pointing fingers, to join hands in rebuilding the world. The most important lesson of any large-scale disaster is the commonality of all human beings; we have all have the same vulnerabilities and the same aspirations.

Most importantly, we are all created in the same image of God. It is up to us to learn how to live together as brothers and sisters, and help each other with their burdens.

I am hopeful that besides the noisy finger-pointers, most people will respond properly to this catastrophe. In the past I have witnessed how disasters have the unique ability to unite people, even antagonists, in a common cause.

LAST JANUARY, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists gathered together in my Montreal synagogue for a service on behalf of the victims of the Asian tsunami. Representatives of the warring Sinhalese and Tamil communities both attended, and a representative of the largest Muslim country in the world, Indonesia, thanked the Jewish community for its efforts on behalf of the disaster victims. People who normally do not talk to each other joined together in common cause.

Last week, students at Montreal's Hebrew Academy, moved by the news reports they have heard, began mobilizing fundraising and letter-writing campaigns for people they have never met, the victims of Katrina.

I am too uncomfortable to issue prophetic statements. But if I have to guess what God wants in the wake of Katrina, it is a recognition that every human being shares God's image, and that every person, whether they live in Indonesia or New Orleans or Kuwait or Israel, should learn how to join hands, not in pointing fingers, but in rebuilding the world.

Chaim Steinmetz is the spiritual leader of Tifereth Beth David Jerusalem in Montreal, Quebec, and is a member of Edah, an advocacy group for Modern Orthodoxy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Saffron]

Satan can't win unless god allows it...one of the benefits of being omnipotent.

LOL! I never thought of that before! :teeth:

See, as a Christian I don't see that as an insult (and I know you didn't mean that as an insult), but I bet some do find that insulting, although I wouldn't know why. To me it's something to think about. But then again, I never believed the "Satan is amongst us" stuff. Evil is amongst us, there's no doubt about that, the Ted Bundys of the world prove it, but I don't believe in the "Satan V God" stuff. I don't believe a lot of the stuff I'm supposed to believe. I'm a selective Christian I guess. :confused3 :teeth:

[Tiggerlover91]

Satan can't win unless god allows it...one of the benefits of being omnipotent.


:cool1: :cheer2:

That deserves an AMEN! ;)

[Tiggernut_jadie]

If god hogs the credit, then why not the blame ? Seems to me that the hurricane was more an act of god than the rescue, which was handled by fellow MEN, not divine providence.

Seems strikingly simple, to me. :rolleyes1


Seems simple to me too! :) There's lots of examples of this - For Example: What really bugs me is when people undergo complex and difficult surgery, using the tremendous skill of the surgeons - then say it was God who saved them..........So the Drs were just bystanders then?! :confused3

[lovethattink]

Satan can't win unless god allows it...one of the benefits of being omnipotent.

So true. Maybe the family of the OP needs to revisit the book of Job.

[Betsyt82]

Lessa of Pern..........thanks for sharing your article

[cteddiesgirl]

LOL! I never thought of that before! :teeth:

See, as a Christian I don't see that as an insult (and I know you didn't mean that as an insult), but I bet some do find that insulting, although I wouldn't know why. To me it's something to think about. But then again, I never believed the "Satan is amongst us" stuff. Evil is amongst us, there's no doubt about that, the Ted Bundys of the world prove it, but I don't believe in the "Satan V God" stuff. I don't believe a lot of the stuff I'm supposed to believe. I'm a selective Christian I guess. :confused3 :teeth:
I'm the same way. I don't believe that there is a devil. He was invented by a pagan religion and brought into the Christian religion as a way to scare people into believing.

[jenfur]

Maybe the focus should be on the thousands and thousands of Christians who are on the ground, HELPING PEOPLE and not on a few who are spouting off to pass judgement.

Christians are not the only religious groups calling this judgement against the US.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/front2453615.183333333.html

[bajanswife]

Now here is my take on this subject....

In nature there are many set patterns that are part of the natural world that were instilled on earth to run when certain variables come into play. Like bad storms when the waters get warm....frontal boundries that cause tornados when the conditions are right.... When the plates of the earth move we get earth quakes and so forth. We as humans choose to live in places that have these naturaly occuring things. They are not(in my estimation) sent to cleanse the population because of "bad" people, or evil places....it is just part of the natural order of things. SO if we live where there are risks associated to nature we have to realize this and do the best we can in those areas or find some where else to live. It is just the randomness of nature....not a devine plan to punish people.

That's my take too.

Even if I believe that there is a higher power who created the universe (and I'm not sure about that yet ;) ), I don't believe there is any higher power manipulating and micro-managing the earth on a frequent basis, and deciding where natural disasters will occur. I think the earth works a certain way according to a bunch of basic principles (just like our bodies do), and that natural events like hurricanes develop when the factors are favorable - not by some divine intervention.

I will dare to say this: I have no desire to believe in a God who micro-manages to that extent. If I turn out to be wrong, so be it. I will deal with that when the time comes! :teeth:

[eeyore kelly]

So if hurricanes are a punishment from God, :rolleyes: why does He hate Florida? :confused3

They get more hurricanes that any other state.

[Aurora63]

I think God sends us these kinds of challenges to strengthen us. Help us to grow. That which does not kill us makes us stronger, you know? That's all.

[DisDuck]

I wanted to respond on this thread to see if there would be more than 1 poster on G-D in some way for some reason caused Katrina. Since that has happened here it goes.

Did G-D send the holocaust as a challenge to strenghen us? How did it make 'us' grow?


Hurricanes are a natural phenomena caused by the Earth's rotation coupled with ocean evaporation creating clouds and wind. Nothing 'supernatural' about it.

[Aurora63]

I wanted to respond on this thread to see if there would be more than 1 poster on G-D in some way for some reason caused Katrina. Since that has happened here it goes.

Did G-D send the holocaust as a challenge to strenghen us? How did it make 'us' grow?


Hurricanes are a natural phenomena caused by the Earth's rotation coupled with ocean evaporation creating clouds and wind. Nothing 'supernatural' about it.

My opinion was not offered to offend you, sorry if it did. Only offering an opinion.

[DisDuck]

I understand that you were not trying to offend but when G-D is mentioned as 'causing' things to happen it is almost always couched in terms of a 'challenge'. As a test of 'our' faith. To me this begs the question, why does G-D need to test 'our' faith. Tell my in-laws who spent their youth in a camp that this was just an exercise in 'faith' including losing all their family.
Is anyone more 'faithful' because 6 million are dead?

Disaster's happen; some people are evil. There is no need to involve some kind of 'supreme being' in this equation.

[Aurora63]

I understand that you were not trying to offend but when G-D is mentioned as 'causing' things to happen it is almost always couched in terms of a 'challenge'. As a test of 'our' faith. To me this begs the question, why does G-D need to test 'our' faith. Tell my in-laws who spent their youth in a camp that this was just an exercise in 'faith' including losing all their family.
Is anyone more 'faithful' because 6 million are dead?

Disaster's happen; some people are evil. There is no need to involve some kind of 'supreme being' in this equation.

I'm not sure how to respond, except to say that no one deserves the suffering your in-laws experienced, or what the people affected by Katrina are experiencing. But it happens, and some of us are comforted to believe that God is in control, for an ultimate greater good. If you think it is all random, that is fine. I'm not here to open a debate, or to try to have the last word. That's all. :flower:

[totalia]

I agree DisDuck. Very very much.

[roger_ramjet]

Good on you for taking it up to those nutters in your family. One day they'll get the message, as will the rest of them (well, we can hope).

[chadfromdallas]

I'm not sure how to respond, except to say that no one deserves the suffering your in-laws experienced, or what the people affected by Katrina are experiencing. But it happens, and some of us are comforted to believe that God is in control, for an ultimate greater good. If you think it is all random, that is fine. I'm not here to open a debate, or to try to have the last word. That's all. :flower:

:rotfl2:

Gotta love a god that drowns out thousands of people....ohhhhh so comforting...... What good could come from a dang category 5 hurricane? More debt for the US? :confused3


Good grief... :rotfl:

[jenfur]

Disaster's happen; some people are evil. There is no need to involve some kind of 'supreme being' in this equation.

I agree with that, disaster's happen and people are evil. The supreme being is who gives some of us the insight and strength to get through those instances.

[mamaprincess]

:rotfl2:

Gotta love a god that drowns out thousands of people....ohhhhh so comforting...... What good could come from a dang category 5 hurricane? More debt for the US? :confused3


Good grief... :rotfl:Chad, I haven't always agreed with your opinions but you are always good natured and good humored about the way you present them. Thanks for being that way. :wave2:

[Grand2me]

No, no, no! It is a BLESSING from God! This is the way all of those people will be delivered from poverty and despair! The future is perfect!

At least that's what the pastor around here was telling the evacuees. :confused3

Please tell me that you are being sarcastic... :confused3