The people who couldn't leave

[chell]

Sorry if this has already been discussed but there are so many posts I just can't read through them all to find out for sure.

All week long I have been rather upset about the people who could not leave the area before Katrina hit. Why did no one do a thing to get these people out? Should there not be a plan in place by the local or even federal governments to get people out when a storm like this is coming? If they know people there have no transportation or live paycheck to paycheck why did they not have a plan in place and get those people out? The same goes for those in hospitals, nursing homes and such.

If they had an established plan in place they would have had plenty of time. What is their excuse?

I'm sorry if this pisses anyone off but I think that no one there cared about these people because they were poor and couldn't contribute much to the society financially. This is how I feel. And it REALLY, REALLY pisses me off! They may not have much money but I can bet you they are rich in spirit. Many of these people have worked their butts off just to have a place to live and to take care of their family. Any human life is worth saving, I don't care how much or little money they have.

This isn't intended to stir up trouble or cause a debate I just needed to vent my feelings and see if anyone else feels the same way.

My main reason for posting is how can we change this in the future? What steps can we take to make these places get a plan in order and to follow through when a major storm or any other disaster is headed their way? If we don't get something started who will?

Please help me because I do not know how to go about this. I really want to keep something like this from happening again.

As poor as some of these people were, did they even have tv and such to know of the warnings?

Until I can find the steps I need to take to get started on this all I can do for now is continue to pray. I've given money and blood so far and want to give my time but I haven't found a place to volunteer through yet since I can only go for one week right now.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and a special thanks to anyone who can help me.

[BuckNaked]

I agree with you, but it will stir up a debate...in fact, it already has. ;)

But as I said, I agree with you 100%. If they can't come up with a plan to either get everyone out, including the people that have no way to evacuate on their own, or a way to protect and provide for the people that have to stay, I question whether or not NOLA should be rebuilt to what it was before.

[babar]

I thought about that too. I'm wondering if Chicago has any type of plan in place.....there are so many people here though, I don't know how it would be done.

There, see? That's something i'm not blaming the Federal Government for! :teeth:

[Lisa loves Pooh]

They had only 48 hours from the time it was determined that there was even a "chance" that Katerina "could" hit the area.

5pm on Friday--her track projection was moved 150 miles west to encompass more of the panhandle and become a "possible" threat to AL.....By 9pm on Friday--that is the first time New Orleans ever came up as "possibly" getting the affects of Katrina.

It is heartbreaking and heartwrenching. But even without a hurricane--it takes time to move hundreds of thousands of people.

And with current technology--there really isn't much time in the scheme of things.

Should they change this? Sure they should.

Can they? I have no idea. It is more than just the 100,000 to consider. You have to consider the whole population. This evacuation was MILLIONS of people.

All I know is they executed their plans as best as possible with the timeframe (they reacted pretty quickly when her track was suddenly adjusted).

Limited roadways--the entire gulf coast evacuating from Lousiana to Alabama and parts of Florida. Nowhere to go but east or west from New Orleans and only one road to take you there. It took people a long time to travel a short distance.

In this case--there was no 72 hour window of opportunity. I think if they had Friday--it would have fared much better. Still catastrophic and loss of life--but one more whole day to get the ball rolling and prepping for a possible strike.

On Friday--her track was to hug the Florida coast and go up and through North Florida. No reason at all for Louisiana to be concerned with it any more than Texas had to be. By the end of the night--she was beelining for New Orleans.

48 hours was just not enough lead time to "begin" hurricane preparations. And that was all the time they had.

Some might ask--why not just prepare anyway. All you do is watch hurricanes--and when it "hints" at coming to your area...the city or county will begin watching in earnest and getting their ducks in a row to say "go" when needed. New Orleans had no hints. Asking them to ready just in case--is like asking every coastal area to run anytime they see a tropical system. If you did that each and every time--people become increasingly complacent. And they begin to not leave town and those offered help wouldn't take any help to get out of town--b/c the last time...it missed, it turned, it didn't do much damage...and so on and so forth.

Evacuating is not a simple process. It takes time. Time--even if they had all these wonderful ideas--was not on their side.

I've had to stop watching the footage. I cannot watch the babies anymore. What is going on now is not the result of a failed evacuation plan. It is the result of an improperly executed rescue and recovery plan that has gotten botched. They are working on fixing that---I just cannot watch anymore to see when that is. It breaks my heart.

[BuckNaked]

And here we go... ;)

There is NO excuse whatsoever for NOLA not having had a comprehensive plan in place to either evacuate or protect and care for EVERYONE in the city. It should have been in place for years, and if such a plan is impossible, then don't rebuild the city. It is not acceptable to just say "Well, we can't get everyone out or take care of them, so we'll just always lose some. Oh well."

And before anyone says "other cities don't have such plans", I'll remind you that other cities DO NOT have the unique geographical situation that NOLA faces, i.e., a bowl that doesn't release water once it fills.

[babar]

I'm not saying other cities don't have these plans!!! I'm hoping that we do have something in place!!

48 hours out, then they should have had the busses gased up and ready to go? At least they could have started getting people out that night and the next day, and if people chose to stay THEN we can say, well that's their problem. And tough cookies if it turned out to be a false alarm!!

I know it's not that easy, but it seems like something could have happened.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It is not acceptable to just say "Well, we can't get everyone out or take care of them, so we'll just always lose some. Oh well."



That has never been said by any authority or anyone here. They had shelters of last resort that held up during the hurricane. It prevented the people in them from dying.


They're unique geography is irrelevant. It takes time to evacuate. They did not have the time.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I know it's not that easy, but it seems like something could have happened.


Yes it does.

[babar]

I'm still thinking about this :rotfl: If an evacuation plan was in place for years and the residents knew what it was, then they could have come on tv and announced we are starting evacuation proceedings, please follow the directions you have been given.......just thinking aloud here about how it could be done......and yes, I know I don't have the right answers. :teeth:

[C.Ann]

I would much rather be held accountable for a premature (and even unecessary) evacuation than have to deal with the fall out from this tremendous loss of life and human suffering..

[chell]

I would much rather be held accountable for a premature (and even unecessary) evacuation than have to deal with the fall out from this tremendous loss of life and human suffering..

Exactly!

[lyeag]

I would much rather be held accountable for a premature (and even unecessary) evacuation than have to deal with the fall out from this tremendous loss of life and human suffering..


DING DING DING Finally.

[BuckNaked]

That has never been said by any authority or anyone here. They had shelters of last resort that held up during the hurricane. It prevented the people in them from dying.

A "shelter of last resort" that can only hold 1/4 of the people that are left behind is both inadequate and unacceptable. And not ensuring that the people that were there would have enough food and water is also unacceptable.


They're unique geography is irrelevant.

Their unique geography is most certainly NOT irrelevant. It is in fact the MOST relevant issue at stake in this situation. The Red Cross won't even set up shelters in NOLA when a hurricane is coming. Why not? Because staying in the city during a Cat 4 or 5 hurricane is not safe, period. The water doesn't come in and the recede right away. It stays, and that means that the greatest danger isn't over when the storm passes, it's just beginning.

It takes time to evacuate. They did not have the time.

You can say this all day, every day, and I will always reply that a well thought out and well executed plan would have gotten most, if not all people out of that city.

Answer this question, LLP - if they can't evacuate everyone and can't safely shelter everyone that can't evacuate, what do you think is going to happen to the people that are left behind?

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm still thinking about this :rotfl: If an evacuation plan was in place for years and the residents knew what it was, then they could have come on tv and announced we are starting evacuation proceedings, please follow the directions you have been given.......just thinking aloud here about how it could be done......and yes, I know I don't have the right answers. :teeth:

:rolleyes1


(they did that....I watched it)

[chell]

Even if they only had 24 hours notice that should be enough time to get people out. If you have an established procedure in place that people are made aware of you can do it in less than 24 hours. It may take a lot of hard work and a lot of extra man hours but I know that I would be willing to do it to save some lives.

Does anyone here know who I could contact about such a thing? There has to be a starting point. I'm sure I could find it but I tend to get sidetracked by reading more about the devastation and conditions and never make it to figure out where to go with my thoughts.

Thanks to all of you for responding. Like I said I wasn't trying to stir up trouble or anything, I just want to do what I can to keep this from happening again.

[babar]

:rolleyes1


(they did that....I watched it)

So, what were the directions? I'm not talking about going to the Superdome, I'm talking about if they had a real plan in place.

[BuckNaked]

I'm not saying other cities don't have these plans!!! I'm hoping that we do have something in place!!



I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I know you didn't say that, it was said on a thread last night, i.e., other cities don't have 100% evacuation plans, NOLA shouldn't be held to a higher standard, etc.

Sorry, but when you face a higher and unique danger, you certainly should be held to a higher standard, IMO.

[BuckNaked]

So, what were the directions? I'm not talking about going to the Superdome, I'm talking about if they had a real plan in place.

Apparently, that was their plan. And I agree, that isn't a real plan.

[nono]

I posted this on another thread but I think it bears repeating:

I think it is also important to note that the New Orleans mayor called for mandatory evacuation on Sunday, and those who could not leave were told to bring 5 days supply of food,water and medicine to the Superdome. So, I think that last part of the orders is what people missed -- it seems like officials knew it would be difficult (even without the levees breaking) to get to the folks there quickly. Here's a link to a story from Sunday before the hurricane to give you some historical perspective: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...rricane_katrina

It's a horrible situation, and we will learn from it. I'm sure many mistakes were made and tragic consequences result. It's what we do now to help those who remain that will determine what kind of people we are.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Answer this question, LLP - if they can't evacuate everyone and can't safely shelter everyone that can't evacuate, what do you think is going to happen to the people that are left behind?

The superdome holds 80,000. Only 10,000 showed up.

City busses were used to transport people--so not having a car is not an excuse.

You still have provided absolutely no suggestions on how to move 1.3 million people out of the city.

Should the tourists been removed from their flights?


You cannot beam people out of the city.

It takes THREE days--they had TWO.

Chell it would be great if it took ONE day.

The Florida Keys got hit by Katrina. She was supposed to go across the state to the North and Northwest. She went Southwest--they had less than a day and nowhere to go.

This is a problem in each and every city of Amercia. There is just too many people.

I would like for it to take just a day. But it doesn't.

[SueM in MN]

One thing I heard about evacuating - some people who did evacuate found that what would have normally been a 1 hour trip turned into a 9 hour ordeal because there were so many people trying to follow the same route out of the city.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

So, what were the directions? I'm not talking about going to the Superdome, I'm talking about if they had a real plan in place.

Voluntary evacuations began on Saturday. All residents were told that this sudden turn of events was not a joke and was the real deal and people needed to leave.

Contra flow lanes were opened on Sunday--I think...I don't recall when (sorry!).

They had a map of the area....and they had a graduated departure time--starting with those closest to the coast and then working their way north. Letting those who would get hit first, first chance to leave.

Residents in the city did not heed the voluntary warning. So the mayor got a court order mandated evacuation (the ONE thing that confuses me--we don't need court orders in Florida and I think the governor issues evac orders, but I digress).

Upon that court order--people were to leave the city--and they had SOOO many directions...and since I haven't been their in 15 years, I couldn't even begin to recall....but different areas take this route, that route and leave.

The shelter opened on Sunday--and those who coudl not leave--were told to go to one of 12 busstops within the city to go to the shelter.


That is the best my memory can do for you. I'm sorry. I know it probably isn't good enough.

They really really really needed Friday. But it wasn't even forecasted to be anywhere near Lousiana in the 72 hour forecast projection.

[BuckNaked]

The superdome holds 80,000. Only 10,000 showed up.

Someone should have told NOLA that, because on Sunday they were saying they could only take 25,000.



You still have provided absolutely no suggestions on how to move 1.3 million people out of the city.

Absolutely untrue. Many on this board have suggested ways to get people out, and YOU have said every single time "That won't work"


You cannot beam people out of the city.


Really? You're kidding!! :rolleyes:

And I notice you conveniently avoided the question, so I'll ask again:

Answer this question, LLP - if they can't evacuate everyone and can't safely shelter everyone that can't evacuate, what do you think is going to happen to the people that are left behind?

Please keep in mind that your expert opinion aside, NOLA's geography does pose a unique problem in that there is no way to safely shelter people in the city. So I'll be very interested to see your answer.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

One thing I heard about evacuating - some people who did evacuate found that what would have normally been a 1 hour trip turned into a 9 hour ordeal because there were so many people trying to follow the same route out of the city.


Yep--one way out---two if you count east AND west.

[chell]

I know there are a lot of logistics involved that I'm simply not aware of but I still believe it can be done in one day.

So if we were to come under another terrorist attack it would take the government three days to evacuate people for that too? I'm sorry but that does not cut it in my book. That is not at all acceptable. We have got to do something to change this. WE HAVE TO! With all the homeland security we now have one would think they would have thought through this type stuff by now.

Again I don't mean to sound rude or anything like that but this really has me upset and I want to do something to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Please keep in mind that your expert opinion aside, NOLA's geography does pose a unique problem in that there is no way to safely shelter people in the city. So I'll be very interested to see your answer.

I do not have an expert opinion other than several years experience and 3 evacuations under my belt.

It is not the intention to leave people behind--and I do not have an answer for you.

I would much rather be held accountable for a premature (and even unecessary) evacuation than have to deal with the fall out from this tremendous loss of life and human suffering..

Absolutely--but then the city would have to had evacuated for Hurricane Dennis. On Friday--that was the destination of Katrina.

I agree that a city should prepare their citizens. The thing is--on Friday--there was Nothing to prepare for.

It woudl have been like telling South Carolina to prepare for Katrian when she was aiming right at Florida.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Again I don't mean to sound rude or anything like that but this really has me upset and I want to do something to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

Agreed--but we are talking years and years to do that.

I have heard a number of people share about there areas....too many people.
How do you get them out anywhere.

I mean--RUSH hour traffic is bad enough....and the whole city isn't on the road during rush hour.

Population and growth are outpacing infrastructures ability to keep up with it.

[What the Heck]

Chell, other cities and states do have plans to get out those who cannot afford to. Miami has Evacutation Bus areas set up all over the city.

[chell]

Chell, other cities and states do have plans to get out those who cannot afford to. Miami has Evacutation Bus areas set up all over the city.

Thanks! That is good to know. Maybe they can help them come up with a plan then.

[chell]

Agreed--but we are talking years and years to do that.

I have heard a number of people share about there areas....too many people.
How do you get them out anywhere.

I mean--RUSH hour traffic is bad enough....and the whole city isn't on the road during rush hour.

Population and growth are outpacing infrastructures ability to keep up with it.


They need to get started on it and cut out all the red tape.

[Free4Life11]

One thing I heard about evacuating - some people who did evacuate found that what would have normally been a 1 hour trip turned into a 9 hour ordeal because there were so many people trying to follow the same route out of the city.

Yes the reporters showed on man I remember who said they had a car and were going to leave, but there was no way they could get out. There was so much traffic on the roads that he was afraid the hurricane would hit while they were still stuck in traffic.

[What the Heck]

Yes the reporters showed on man I remember who said they had a car and were going to leave, but there was no way they could get out. There was so much traffic on the roads that he was afraid the hurricane would hit while they were still stuck in traffic.Now that would be a truly scary thought.

[Free4Life11]

You know I am determined to contact my city and see what plans they have in place, because this worries me. I've only lived here 1 year so I have no idea what plans they have. As far as natural disasters all we get are tornados (extremely rare in the city though) and snowstorms and I've heard flooding in the past. I DO know that the city (Lincoln, NE) is spending TONS of money on their flood plan, to put in drainage canals and whatnot. I'll have to look into.

[BuckNaked]

I do not have an expert opinion other than several years experience and 3 evacuations under my belt.

Well if that's all it takes, then I'll claim the title of hurricane expert. ;)


It is not the intention to leave people behind--and I do not have an answer for you.

If they don't make plans to either evacuate or safely shelter EVERYONE, then it mostly certainly IS intended to leave people behind. And with NOLA's location, that is unacceptable.


It woudl have been like telling South Carolina to prepare for Katrian when she was aiming right at Florida.

That's a false analogy, seeing as South Carolina isn't on the Gulf.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That's a false analogy, seeing as South Carolina isn't on the Gulf.

No it isn't--she was to the east of Florida and traveling North west--could have theoretically turned North--but they weren't evacuating South Carolina for something that wasn't in the forecast--or North Florida for that matter. At 72 hours (before striking NOLA) she was supposed to travel the state of Florida--weaken of course since on land--and go North.




We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't have a solution--and I don't think anybody does. It is easy from afar to say build extra interstates and have enough transportation. NO was vulnerable. Hindsight is 20/20. Sounds like they need to discuss hurricane planes with Miami-Dade county.

The Floyd evacuations in Florida were messed up with people sitting in stopped traffic for hours. The state screwed up--they changed it..and the routes flow more smoothly when the powers that be realized--they have the power to close a lane and allow traffic to use all lanes in one direction.

Lessons will be learned they have to--who in their right mind would go back otherwise--they will compress the evacuation process as much as possible. It should be the goal to get the citizens out as quickly as possible.

The plan they had was probably for a 72 hour window with no modifications for less lead time...and it bit them in the butt..

A plan is really needed for a variety of windows (12-24-36-48-72 hours for example) since you never know how much notice you will have when disaster will strike.

[seashoreCM]

How many people "with no means of transportation to evacuate" hopped a city bus as far as the bus could go, perhaps to the airport just to sit inside the terminal? I doubt if they would have been turned out into the wind and rain.

At least there they would not be surrounded by flood water.

The biggest mistake was not bringing in more C-rations (MRE's) by helicopter. Only by having food lines open continuously and never runing out would the people not be fearful of not having food.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

[SonicLogic]

It is not the responsibility of the government at any level to provide transportation for evacuees prior to a storm. Also, we hear a lot about "mandatory" evacuations, but the various state governors do not have the authority to impose a mandatory evacuation (contrary to what you might think).

When an evacuation is "ordered", it is up to each and every citizen to decide what they will do. Whether to shelter in place, evacuate to a local shelter or travel to another safe area is always an individual decision. Pets, medical problems, elderly or infirm friends or relatives are just a few of the factors that come into play. Of course, if you don't have a car then your options are limited. So, each citizen must formulate their own plan and make their own preparations to survive.

If you live in hurricane country, then you better have a plan to survive a massive storm. I've lived in Florida for over 25 years. I lived in Homestead, FL when Andrew hit. I had a plan and I survived and my house only had minor damage. You know why? Because it was built to survive a category 5 storm. I sheltered in place during Andrew because I knew that my house would not flood and I knew it would survive a 180 MPH sustained wind. I had plenty of peanut butter, crackers and other nonperishable food. I had a stockpile of prescription medicine for my family members that required it. I had first aid supplies in the event of a serious injury. I had a propane powered generator (with 2 large 100 lb. tanks) to run the refrigerator and a few other items. In short, I had a plan and it worked. I'm an ant.

Aesop told us years ago about the ant and the grasshopper;

http://www.umass.edu/aesop/ant/roberto/ant_trad.html

You've got to plan for the worst and hope for the best!

[BuckNaked]

When an evacuation is "ordered", it is up to each and every citizen to decide what they will do. Whether to shelter in place, evacuate to a local shelter or travel to another safe area is always an individual decision.

And how exactly do people that don't have cars, or don't have the money to go anywhere get out?

[SonicLogic]

And how exactly do people that don't have cars, or don't have the money to go anywhere get out?
Friends perhaps? Select another place to live? Recognize that they might die if they shelter in place? It's all up to them to make those choices.

[seashoreCM]

I lived in Homestead, FL when Andrew hit. I had a plan and I survived and my house only had minor damage. You know why? Because it was built to survive a category 5 storm. I sheltered in place during Andrew because I knew that my house would not flood and I knew it would survive a 180 MPH sustained wind. I had plenty of peanut butter, crackers and other nonperishable food. I had a stockpile of prescription medicine for my family members that required it. I had first aid supplies in the event of a serious injury. I had a propane powered generator (with 2 large 100 lb. tanks) to run the refrigerator and a few other items. !
Don't forget guns and ammunition to protect against roving gangs of marauders and looters.

[SonicLogic]

Don't forget guns and ammunition to protect against roving gangs of marauders and looters.
I always have plenty on hand. Good point!

[BuckNaked]

Friends perhaps? Select another place to live? Recognize that they might die if they shelter in place? It's all up to them to make those choices.

For the people that could evacuate and didn't...well, I feel badly if they didn't make it, but that was their choice.

But for those that wanted to leave and had no way to do so? I feel like they were let down, big time.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

SonicLogic--well said. Do you still live in Homestead? I may need to get a few suggestions! We have a ton of water....but I just don't have the stockpile of food just yet.

[lulu71]

The evacuation plan for the area as I know it calls for the parishes south of the city to head out first. They always call for the evacuations on these lower parishes first because if all of Orleans and Jefferson get the evacuation order, the traffic situation would prevent those folks south of the city from getting out. This has been talked about every year on TV, all the local channels have specials about it and there are maps and instructions at all the groceries, Home Depots, drugstores, etc. After those parishes have enough time to evacuate, then the big parishes get the call. The logistics of calling for a mandatory evacuation of Orleans is just a nightmare with so many people without transportation. The Superdome has always as long as I can recal been referred to as a "shelter of last resort" and people are urged to get out as best they can. As a middle class person, I am out of there pronto. But the poor really don't have much choice. That's what Mayor Nagin was talking about earlier...this isn't a race issue, it's a class issue.

The contraflow plan started at 4pm on Saturday, someone upthread was wondering when this started.

We have heard the doom and gloom scenario for years, and many people discounted it. The Director of Emergency Preparedness has predicted all of this (not the crime part of course, noone predicted that) and got a lot of flack for being an alarmist. Pretty sad.

Many people who did have the resources to leave simply refused to sit in traffic on I10 for ten or more hours as they did for Georges in 1997 and Ivan last year. Again, pretty sad.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

lulu--where was your home?

[lulu71]

Lakeview, about 4 blocks from Canal Blvd. on the lake side of Harrison.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I used to live in Algiers Point--a hop across on the ferry.

Very sorry.

[lulu71]

That's where my brother lives, on Pelican. He takes the ferry everyday to work in the CBD.

I used to live in Algiers Point--a hop across on the ferry.

Very sorry.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That's where my brother lives, on Pelican. He takes the ferry everyday to work in the CBD.

I took the ferry and meandered over to Elysian Fields to go to school at Franklin (on UNO campus).

[lulu71]

Lisa - I tried to reply to your PM, but your mailbox was full.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Lisa - I tried to reply to your PM, but your mailbox was full.


fixed :)

[Madi100]

How much would it have affected traffic if families would have only been allowed to take one vehicle?

I think it's sad to see the poor and elderly left behind. I also think it's sad to see something like this happen to make people want to do something to help them out.

[Tiggerlover91]

I would much rather be held accountable for a premature (and even unecessary) evacuation than have to deal with the fall out from this tremendous loss of life and human suffering..


Survey says:........#1 ANSWER!!!!!!!!!! :banana:

[WaltD4Me]

While I 100% agree with you that a plan was definitely needed to get
EVERYONE out, I really wonder how many would have actually gotten on the buses out of town. The should have had the oppurtunity, without a doubt, but.....

I found this editorial from an N.O. newspaper on line........

================================================== ======
The Sky is Falling!!!

The newsroom employees across town had their assignments... Get your families in order, pack your bags, come back to work, and don't plan on going home until "the storm" is gone. On Friday morning Cindy had just rolled over us, and Dennis was headed our way. Before we had a chance to rake our lawns we had to get back into the newsroom and bore the citizenry to death with endless updates and doomsday scenarios.

I loathe this time of year - hurricane season, that is. Because every journalist in the city goes into a delightful fit at the idea of mass carnage. "It could be another Betsy" they say whenever a new potential gets into the gulf, or "We could lose so many lives", they suggest with hidden optimism, as if they secretly want to see the city obliterated just so they can have something to report on that will strike attentiveness into the minds of thousands for the next decade.

The news people love to get you riled up so you will cause chaos that they can put on TV. That is why they scare you into evacuating... so they can film you waiting in line for gas and complaining. And what is this obsession with evacuating, anyway? As my mother said "Nobody could afford to evacuate in my day, and hardly any lives were lost. If we prepared well and hunkered down, we all did just fine. People are so risk-averse nowadays" (Keep in my mind, by "just fine" she means "survived"). In our society of calculated risk, it seems we are too fearful to let our children experience any little 50mph wind lest their wee GAP jumper get rumpled. Best to jump in the SUV tanker and inch along the interstate until you hit Canada - yeah, that's far enough, you might be safe there :-P

================================================== ======

Granted this wasn't referring to Katrina, but I bet alot of people in N.O. felt this way and even though I definitely think they should have been a plan to get those people out...I really wonder how many would have gotten on those buses. Hindsight is 20/20 - we all know now that staying in New Orleans was a huge mistake, but Monday night and even early Tuesday morning, reporters were claiming N.O. dodged a bullet, everyone was smiling and relieved, one reporter was pondering when the bars might re-open and even Shepard Smith admitted he only planned to be in N.O. for a day or two. I also saw people complaining Tuesday morning that they couldn't get back into the city yet and were cursing police for turning them back. Even though all these people are now saying "they should have known, they should have known...." I didn't see anyone, not the Mayor, not the Governor, not the reporters, not any of the people saying..."Well, let's not get too excited, you know, those levees could still break."

[va32h]

Granted this wasn't referring to Katrina, but I bet alot of people in N.O. felt this way and even though I definitely think they should have been a plan to get those people out...I really wonder how many would have gotten on those buses.

Exactly. There are people in NO right now who don't want to leave, and are refusing to leave.

All the plans, buses, and announcements in the world aren't go to do any good if people do not want to leave.

The media always hypes these storms. While most people were trying to get out of NO, Brian Williams of MSNBC fought his way into the Superdome, into the city. Is it so surprising that people look at the reporter on TV and think "it can't be that bad, they still have a reporter and a camera out there.

I remember when Bonnie was predicted to hit our part of Virginia. Businesses closed down and boarded up, people headed in to Richmond. Then the storm turned. And people were furious! "I lost a days work", "I had to pay for a hotel" "I had to close my store" and all for nothing.

It is very easy to say, now, that it would have been better to have a detailed plan and not need it, but if elaborate (and costly) evacuation plans were put in place, and executed, and it turned out that they were unnecessary, the Mayor, Governor and all the way up the chain would be blamed for wasting money, wasting time, being a nanny government, costing the city tourism dollars.

Look at the airport screening process - after 9/11 we were all for airport screening, no matter how expensive or onerous. The consequences for not screening were too dangerous; it was worth the cost, worth the trouble. Well three months later, people were complaining. "It takes too long". Additional taxes were added to ticket prices to pay for extra TSA employees. And not four years after 9/11 we are easing restrictions, cutting TSA employees, taking items off the contraband list, why? To save time and money.

If NO comes up with a brilliant way to empty the city quickly and efficiently, I am willing to bet that this plan gets used exactly once - just long enough to decide that it "takes too long and costs too much".

[WaltD4Me]

It is very easy to say, now, that it would have been better to have a detailed plan and not need it, but if elaborate (and costly) evacuation plans were put in place, and executed, and it turned out that they were unnecessary, the Mayor, Governor and all the way up the chain would be blamed for wasting money, wasting time, being a nanny government, costing the city tourism dollars.

Thank you! -- This is exactly what I have been thinking also.