Why some people stayed in New Orleans... my thoughts.

[Tiziminchac]

I've been reading all these threads this week and I guess I'll put my two cents in. Usually I don't post too much personal stuff, but... I can understand why a lot of those people probably stayed. Most people have a sense of "it won't happen to me" in these situations which is helped by wrong weather forecasts and over zealous weather reporters. If they didn't sensationalize the weather who would watch the Weather Channel?

After hearing this stuff for years you can start to think this way. And I speak from experience. You see, my father passed away last year. Two days after his funeral the first of two hurricanes that came through here in as many weeks hit us. But I wouldn't leave. Instead I decided to stick it out. I took my cat, my clothes, pictures and important papers and went to my father's house to watch the house for my stepmother who left along with just about everyone else I know. I thought all the people who were leaving were just wasting their time.

I don't know if it was the grief over losing my father or the "not me" attitude I had, but I made a bad decision. It was a week before I actually could make it back to my own house. I lost just about everything I owned. Not that my leaving would have saved anything. But I spent the next couple of weeks with no power and no comforts. Thankfully I had plenty of food and water at my father's and I stayed there. But we didn't get flooded here.

I guess my point is that people don't always make the best decisions for whatever reasons. I'm not going to criticize those people who decided to stay behind. Whatever their reasons were. I also find it hard to blame the government for the hardships I faced. Then, as now, I think they are trying to do the best they can. Afterall, they told us to get out too last year.

Instead of finger pointing people should try to think of what they can do to help. Donate some money, or water, or food. Give blood. Or just pray. There are so many positive things we can do. And after the crisis at hand is over we'll have plenty of time to debate the "who's at fault" question.

[Towncrier]

I saw a news report that said that a lot of people couldn't leave New Orleans because payday wasn't until after the storm hit. And these people live from paycheck to paycheck. They didn't have the financial means to flee the storm.

I'm certain that there were some who made the concious decision to ride out the storm, but there were so many who just couldn't leave.

Continued prayers for the all those effected by the storm in all parts of the country.

[mbw12]

I hear ya. I can't stand the people saying 'well...they should have left." What??? It is a tragedy!!!! Some COULDN'T leave......and Yes, maybe some made the wrong decision, but my compassion kicks in when I see these people suffering!!! We ALL have made the wrong decision at one point or another in our lives.....

[Rozzie]

I know many many people on a personal level who did not leave as they should for the very fact they thought the storm was not going to (1) hit, almost always these things turn right before they hit. (2) they survived Camille (5 people I know said if their house survived Camille--which was a cat 5 that they would be "FINE!".
Yes many people did not have money, but it would be wrong to say that only the poor people stayed behind. I have 7 family members who decided to "ride it out" we have only heard from 3.

I even have a DBIL who stayed 1/2 mile from coast in Biloxi with a 4mth old baby!!! luckily we have heard from them and went to Biloxi yesterday to deliver supplies and money to them. and yes, we took 2 guns with us. tough times comes for tough measures!

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes Rozzie good point--I know at least two homes where the homeowners were interviewed. Their homes stood with Camille. And Katrian just washed it away.

Many people stayed behind due to choice or circumstance. I'm not sure we'll ever know the numbers of who chose and who had no choice.

[Rock'n Robin]

There are many reasons people stayed, I'm sure. I was reading about Brett Favre's family home being destroyed, and that his mom and Grandma were there but were fine--she also rationalized that she rode out Camille, so this would be OK.
Of course then I read she rode out Camille, a cat. 5, while 7 months pregnant with Brett! Knowing she chose to stay in a hurricane while pregnant makes me doubt her sanity a little bit. You would think pregnant women and women with little babies would get out unless they just could not afford to leave, but that wasn't the case with her.
Robin M.

[pixieprincessmom]

You have to remember that with Betsy and Camille, which you have definately heard stories of if you live around here, they didn't get the news coverage we have today.

[lyeag]

I understand that some just had no way out. BUT there were plenty who could and didn't. I don't know why, but I do know that if they had obeyed the MANDATORY evacuation, the sheer number of people needing to be rescued would have been much lower. Imagine if 25% of the people who stayed had left. How much easier would all of this been?

I don't wish this mess on anyone. Nor do I wish the suffering I have seen on tv on anyone. I do wish that people would have used a little common sense starting with many of the citiizens all the way up to the President.

[MagicKingdom05]

I think that in the case of the looters they stayed so they could loot. What better way to steal stuff then in a city that 80% is empty.

[WDWBetsy]

I understand that some just had no way out. BUT there were plenty who could and didn't. I don't know why, but I do know that if they had obeyed the MANDATORY evacuation, the sheer number of people needing to be rescued would have been much lower. Imagine if 25% of the people who stayed had left. How much easier would all of this been?

I don't wish this mess on anyone. Nor do I wish the suffering I have seen on tv on anyone. I do wish that people would have used a little common sense starting with many of the citiizens all the way up to the President.

Mandatory orders don't mean much if you don't have the resources to get out of town.

I suggest anyone wondering why so many stayed read this article at the Financial Times (http://news.ft.com/cms/s/2922cf4a-1bda-11da-9342-00000e2511c8.html).

[Free4Life11]

Imagine if 25% of the people who stayed had left. How much easier would all of this been?

The highways were completely packed even with 75% of the city evacuating. If the 25% even had the means to leave AND tried to leave, they might not have gotten out in time. There is just no easy way to evacuate hundreds of thousands of people from most cities.

[lyeag]

The highways were completely packed even with 75% of the city evacuating. If the 25% even had the means to leave AND tried to leave, they might not have gotten out in time. There is just no easy way to evacuate hundreds of thousands of people from most cities.



Like I mentioned, common sense was needed. Too many people didn't leave early enogh. People took both cars if they had two.

Had the local gov't and the state had a plan in place to use every vehicle around to move some of these people, and had put them in strategic areas around the city BEFORE they called for the evac so they were ready, it may have been different. Getting them out of town is only one hurdle, but, it would have saved lives. Now would everyone have gotten out? No, but things wouldn't be as bad now.

Yes, I understand the congestion on the roads. I even posted about how there was the potential for people being stuck on the roads during the storm. However, with a better plan, I think it could have been avoided.

[lyeag]

Mandatory orders don't mean much if you don't have the resources to get out of town.

I suggest anyone wondering why so many stayed read this article at the Financial Times (http://news.ft.com/cms/s/2922cf4a-1bda-11da-9342-00000e2511c8.html).

But, some did have the means and stayed anyway. Those were the ones I was referring to. Like ummm Fats Domino. He didn't have resources to leave? If those people had left, there would be less to evacuate and rescue now. Period.

[WDWBetsy]

But, some did have the means and stayed anyway. Those were the ones I was referring to. Like ummm Fats Domino. He didn't have resources to leave? If those people had left, there would be less to evacuate and rescue now. Period.

I agree.

[Tiziminchac]

I was worried that no one would understand my post. Sometimes it's not easy to put into words what you feel or think. I've seen some other posts, on other threads, where the posters speculated that those that stayed behind did so because they are used to being taken care of or perhaps they intended to loot when they saw the opportunity arise. Perhaps that is true in some cases. But the whole point of this thread was that some people make bad choices and then they have to pay for them. I used myself as an example. But just because some made bad choices doesn't mean we shouldn't have compassion for them.

This post here is the perfect example of finding it difficult to put into words what I'm thinking so I think I'll just leave it at that.

[sha_lyn]

BIL waited to leave until sunday night. His wife, baby and stepson left on Friday but he planned to stay and "ride it out". By the time he decided to leave traffic was so bad that he only got about 100 miles out. He ended up being stranded with no gas food or water He aparently took nothing, thinking he would make it to his wife's relatives house.

I think there are probably many who stayed behind because they waited around too long, hoping the storm would change course. By the time they realized how dangerous it was, it would have been (or they thoguth it would have been) to dangerous to be on the road.

[snappy]

The highways were completely packed even with 75% of the city evacuating. If the 25% even had the means to leave AND tried to leave, they might not have gotten out in time. There is just no easy way to evacuate hundreds of thousands of people from most cities.

Your are right. Even starting 72 hours prior to landfall will not assure that everyone gets out. Another thing that slows things down is the need to get cash and gas before leaving, the lines at banks and gas stations were horrendous in New Orleans even Saturday. Also, some employers will not release their employees until it is obvious the storm is headed out way. People also delay departure in order to board up, secure outdoor stuff.
Before we moved away my DH and his brothers also had to help board up his sister, niece, and mom who had no men in the house to do it. It takes time, especially if your boards from last year were ruined and you have to stand in line at Home Depot to get more.

Having people get caught in their cars by the storm would be just as bad a disaster.

[bsnyder]

Having people get caught in their cars by the storm would be just as bad a disaster.

This is a terrifying concern for large cities that are located in hurricane-prone areas.

My county emergency plan is online and I spent some time browsing through it last night. (350 page PDF file). They address this in the plan, and have a list of "shelters of last resort" along major roadways that law inforcement could direct stranded motorists to. These shelters are not manned by the Red Cross or stocked with provisions, they're simply an alternative to being trapped in the car when the storm makes landfall.

[ThAnswr]

This is a terrifying concern for large cities that are located in hurricane-prone areas.

My county emergency plan is online and I spent some time browsing through it last night. (350 page PDF file). They address this in the plan, and have a list of "shelters of last resort" along major roadways that law inforcement could direct stranded motorists to. These shelters are not manned by the Red Cross or stocked with provisions, they're simply an alternative to being trapped in the car when the storm makes landfall.

Or else you really get "lucky" like we did last year during Charley and suddenly that red arrow points to Charlotte Harbor and you end up with 1 hour's notice you're about to get hit with a category 4 hurricane.

Talk about the Keystone Kops.

[WDWBetsy]

I have to say that even my own former co-worker, who evacuated here to Indy with her husband and baby - were going to stay and ride it out. They rode out Ivan and were fine, so they thought it would be okay. They are upper middle class in a nice neighborhood, so they had the means to get out.

They live in Harvey, LA and on Sunday morning, she saw the manditory evacuation on TV. She told him that she was going to take the baby and leave and convinced him to go with her. She said that she asked him what he was doing when she saw him talking to the dogs. He said he was saying good-bye to them. He honestly thought they'd be back in a couple days. She said she wasn't leaving without the two dogs, so they packed them in with a few items and the three of them, in a Jeep Liberty if I recall. They took her Jeep because it was newer and left his truck. Then they had to go get gas because her tank was empty. After seeing the huge line at the only open gas station, he waited in line while she went back to the house and baked cookies. :confused3 She said she wanted to use up some of the food they were leaving. I was in shock when she said this - clearly they didn't understand the danger. So finally they left town and waited in bumper-to-bumper traffic on their way to a relative's house in Mississippi before coming here.

I believe that this is one example of a family that was going to ride it out and didn't understand the magnitude/risk of losing lives, their house, or their belongings. They only grabbed a few things. They didn't even board up their windows (which I understand are now all blown out, the roof is damaged, and their was waist-deep water in their house, but they think it's gone now - a neighbor who stayed found out for them). I'm glad they realized the danger and fled, but if she hadn't insisted they'd probably be trapped or dead right now.

[bsnyder]

Or else you really get "lucky" like we did last year during Charley and suddenly that red arrow points to Charlotte Harbor and you end up with 1 hour's notice you're about to get hit with a category 4 hurricane.

Talk about the Keystone Kops.

ThAnswr, I asked this on another thread, but maybe you didn't see it.

What kind of storm surge did your area get with Charley? I've never heard much about it so I'm asuming it didn't affect (as in drown) an awful lot of people.

[bsnyder]

I have to say that even my own former co-worker, who evacuated here to Indy with her husband and baby - were going to stay and ride it out. They rode out Ivan and were fine, so they thought it would be okay. They are upper middle class in a nice neighborhood, so they had the means to get out.

They live in Harvey, LA and on Sunday morning, she saw the manditory evacuation on TV. She told him that she was going to take the baby and leave and convinced him to go with her. She said that she asked him what he was doing when she saw him talking to the dogs. He said he was saying good-bye to them. He honestly thought they'd be back in a couple days. She said she wasn't leaving without the two dogs, so they packed them in with a few items and the three of them, in a Jeep Liberty if I recall. They took her Jeep because it was newer and left his truck. Then they had to go get gas because her tank was empty. After seeing the huge line at the only open gas station, he waited in line while she went back to the house and baked cookies. :confused3 She said she wanted to use up some of the food they were leaving. I was in shock when she said this - clearly they didn't understand the danger. So finally they left town and waited in bumper-to-bumper traffic on their way to a relative's house in Mississippi before coming here.

I believe that this is one example of a family that was going to ride it out and didn't understand the magnitude/risk of losing lives, their house, or their belongings. They only grabbed a few things. They didn't even board up their windows (which I understand are now all blown out, the roof is damaged, and their was waist-deep water in their house, but they think it's gone now - a neighbor who stayed found out for them). I'm glad they realized the danger and fled, but if she hadn't insisted they'd probably be trapped or dead right now.

Unfortunately, this is an all too frequent example of what happens. The near misses, and the "useless" evacuations. People get tired of it.

I'm glad they changed their mind.

[Free4Life11]

After seeing the huge line at the only open gas station, he waited in line while she went back to the house and baked cookies. :confused3 She said she wanted to use up some of the food they were leaving.

:rotfl2:

I really don't mean to laugh, but I was just cracking up at this! I am glad they are ok but that was the funniest thing I read in a while. Hope I don't offend you, I just thought it was really funny.

[WDWBetsy]

:rotfl2:
I really don't mean to laugh, but I was just cracking up at this! I am glad they are ok but that was the funniest thing I read in a while. Hope I don't offend you, I just thought it was really funny.

No offense taken. I was listening to her while she was telling us this, and when that part came out, 3 of us said, "HUH???? You made cookies? When the hurricane is coming???" :crazy2: A funny moment in such a sad story - but that's the kind of person she is. Some of the stuff/stories she's told over the years has made me crack up so many times. I meant to put in some laughter smilies or something when I typed that and forgot.

She's a really funny gal, who is extremely strong. I'd never heard her cry ever before until Wednesday when I spoke to her on the phone. I have missed having her as a co-worker, and now that her agency office is closed and her family evacuated here, she's working out of our office (we're the same kind of organizations, just in different states). Some of their staff is working out another office in Louisiana, and she's managing them via conference calls. She got many, many hugs when she worked in our office this past week - and our agency collected quite a bit from staff to help her family.

[ThAnswr]

ThAnswr, I asked this on another thread, but maybe you didn't see it.

What kind of storm surge did your area get with Charley? I've never heard much about it so I'm asuming it didn't affect (as in drown) an awful lot of people.

No, I didn't see it.

We had almost no storm surge with Charley. What you saw was wind damage. Charley was actually half a hurricane as we didn't get the heavy rains or the storm surge.

People, like my mom, were ordered to evacuate and she stayed with us.

We were very, very lucky and yet half the people in my area lost their homes my sister being one of them. Some have come back, but most are still having their homes repaired.

Btw, we don't have any hurricane shelters for a category 3-5.

[bsnyder]

No, I didn't see it.

We had almost no storm surge with Charley. What you saw was wind damage. Charley was actually half a hurricane as we didn't get the heavy rains or the storm surge.

People, like my mom, were ordered to evacuate and she stayed with us.

We were very, very lucky and yet half the people in my area lost their homes my sister being one of them. Some have come back, but most are still having their homes repaired.

Btw, we don't have any hurricane shelters for a category 3-5.

That's curious. I wonder why not?

Storm surge is related to wind speeds, and the geography of the body of water along the coastline. Andrew was a similar, but more powerful version of Charley (small, tight, dry storm with extremely powerful winds). I always assumed that the lack of surge in Miami was due to the fact that the Atlantic is a very deep body of water relatively close to shore, whereas the Gulf is like a giant bowl and magnifies the effects of the surge. Maybe something to do with the geography of Charlotte Harbor protected it? I'm just trying to picture it, and I don't see it as all that much different from Tampa Bay and we are at tremendous risk for storm surge.

[ThAnswr]

That's curious. I wonder why not?

Storm surge is related to wind speeds, and the geography of the body of water along the coastline. Andrew was a similar, but more powerful version of Charley (small, tight, dry storm with extremely powerful winds). I always assumed that the lack of surge in Miami was due to the fact that the Atlantic is a very deep body of water relatively close to shore, whereas the Gulf is like a giant bowl and magnifies the effects of the surge. Maybe something to do with the geography of Charlotte Harbor protected it? I'm just trying to picture it, and I don't see it as all that much different from Tampa Bay and we are at tremendous risk for storm surge.

I didn't say we weren't at risk for a storm surge, just that we didn't have one. Sometimes conditions are not right and we lucked out with Charley. They did however have storm surges in Sanibel and Fort Myers.

Btw, there have been storm surges from hurricanes in NY too and that's pretty far from the Gulf.

Sometimes you get lucky and Charley was half a hurricane. It was also a small and fast moving storm. If Charley had stayed for 3-4 hours, I don't think there would've been a building standing.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I wouldn't necessarily call any hurricane that causes any damage to be "half a hurricane". ;)

But I get your point.

[bsnyder]

ThAnswr, this is the best explaination I've been able to find.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/08/17/Weather/Shrinking_core_reduce.shtml

[DisneyMomOK]

In my state, if you occupy your home, it cannot be condemned. I think that might also be true in LA and MS. For some people, their home, no matter how humble it might appear to others, is worth the chance.

Sharon

[ThAnswr]

ThAnswr, this is the best explaination I've been able to find.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/08/17/Weather/Shrinking_core_reduce.shtml

We were very lucky Charley was a small, compact storm and conditions were not right for a storm surge. Sometimes you luck out, but what we did have were tornadoes.

[Planogirl]

In my state, if you occupy your home, it cannot be condemned. I think that might also be true in LA and MS. For some people, their home, no matter how humble it might appear to others, is worth the chance.

Sharon
That's interesting and might just be a big factor as to why some people who had the means chose to stay home. I also saw a few say that they were worried about looting and wanted to protect their things.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of how many people stayed behind in the dry areas versus how many in the flooded areas. I can't really blame anyone for staying behind in Algiers or Uptown for example.

[mamaprincess]

This kind of thread is a rarity. Thankyou for your understanding heart, you are fortunate to have it.
I hope and pray that your recovery process is speedy.

[suzannen]

One of my co-worker's sister and mother stayed behind, although they had the means to get out. The mother is 82, had lived through so many hurricanes before, she simply refused to leave her home. The daughter would not leave her mother alone and also had no place to take her 3 pets since no shelters would accept them. They, like so many others, had no idea it would not end like all the previous storms, with mostly structural damage and a few days without electricity. They were evacuated last week and the mother is in the hospital being treated for severe dehydration.

I have hated seeing all of the "blame the victims" posts here. Everyone had different reasons for their decisions, and I don't think it's anyone's place to sit in judgment. They've already paid the price for their decision.

[sha_lyn]

I have hated seeing all of the "blame the victims" posts here. Everyone had different reasons for their decisions, and I don't think it's anyone's place to sit in judgment. They've already paid the price for their decision.

So true. You know what they say "hind sight is 20/20"
BIL has lived in NO off and on for the last 30 or so yrs. He's lived through numerous hurricanes I'm sure he expected this one to end as all the others had. The only thing that really bothers me is that he left about 7pm sunday night and did not take anything with him except $100 cash.He wasn't running out the door barely escaping wiht his life. When he realized he didn't have enough gas to get to where his wife was he decided to try to drive to a small airport in MS instead of going to a shelter. Apparently he ran out of gas and was stranded on the side of the road for several days. He was eventually picked up by someone. He was able to meet up with his family and they are in a hotel somewhere in MS.

Basically this is what BIL told DH when the 2 of them finally spoke. We were told several other versions by other family members, including that he didn't make it off the coast and fled the flooding on foot and that his car was under water in MS.

Sorry if this has turned into a blame the victims post. I really don't mean it that way. I'm just trying to show that at least for some, it was just one bad decision after another that lead to the situation they are in. Hopefully we can learn from it.

At least one good thing has aparently came out of this. BIL and his wife are back together. From what I understand he had just moved out prior to the hurricane. Something we didn't even know until another BIL told DH when asked why BIL didn't leave with his wife, stepson and baby.