Updated- wow there is a cop on cnn screaming

[WebmasterAlex]

1/3 of the NO police department went awol....

[hercamore]

I read somewhere half of the dept left.

Stunning.


herc.

[SillyMe]

I read that, too. They were turning in their badges.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

They couldn't take it anymore. I saw one interviewed in Texas. I wouldn't call it so much being a coward....as just not having the means to do the job.

They're human too and in the same situation as everyone else :(.

So sad. I didn't realize it was THAT many though. Astonishing.

[Planogirl]

They were overwhelmed by the situation and they just gave up apparently. So sad. :(

[WebmasterAlex]

the problem is they swore the oath. They took the paycheck. When the going got really rough they RAN.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

the problem is they swore the oath. They took the paycheck. When the going got really rough they RAN.

Yes--I understand that.

It is absolutely terrible they left. But understandable, I guess.

They are police officers--not soldiers :(.

[SplshMtn99]

I don't think they took the paycheck & ran. I think it's more like are they even going to get paid? Is there a "town" left to pay them? No.

They did what they could with what they had which was nothing. You can't expect them to stay for ever & keep getting shot at with no help. This is war. The National Guard will take over now.

[peachgirl]

They did what they could with what they had which was nothing. You can't expect them to stay for ever & keep getting shot at with no help. This is war. The National Guard will take over now.

::yes::

I don't blame them at all. Faced with what they have been faced with, I wonder how many of us wouldn't have "run" too.

As someone else said, they aren't soldiers.

[WebmasterAlex]

2/3rd's of them stayed! They not only abandoned their job they abandoned their fellow officers. Sorry but they are nothing but cowards

[CharlesTD]

Hopefully when it is all over and done they don't come back looking for thier jobs back. If they do I would be telling them to hit the road.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

2/3rd's of them stayed! They not only abandoned their job they abandoned their fellow officers. Sorry but they are nothing but cowards


True...but it is understandable.


And unfortunately--anybody in a disaster or potential disaster who voluntarily leaves their post....would have a hard time explaining that when they apply for the same type of job elsewhere. And for good reason.

Many were encouraging a few RN's of this very thing--and you just can't do that. It is part of the job description.

[Mary Jo]

If they're cowards, then good thing they left. I would hope that the men who stayed can depend on each other to watch each others' backs, and not cave in to the terror they must be feeling.

Yes, they took an oath, but I doubt that any of them have ever experienced any of this devastation, dead bodies, people suffering, others who run rampant.

Some people are just not cut out to be heroes. Are they weak? Perhaps. Could I do it? Probably up to a point, but then again, I'm in my comfortable home talking about it.

The real heroes stayed, and those are the ones I look up to and thank God that there are people like that who willingly stay in horrible circumstances to help others.

[WebmasterAlex]

It is not understandable to me! How many NY police officers died going in to what they knew to be a life threatening situation
It IS part of the job description.
I can understand a few but at least 1/3?????

[drakethib]

the problem is they swore the oath. They took the paycheck. When the going got really rough they RAN.


5 days with no relief will take the best of them.

[MandM-Mom]

What about getting there families out! I know I would have a hard time leaving with my children and leaving DH behind.....to what fate no one knows.

[Teejay32]

It is not understandable to me! How many NY police officers died going in to what they knew to be a life threatening situation
It IS part of the job description.
I can understand a few but at least 1/3?????

Two different things. Enormous tragedy though it was, not many lost their homes on 9/11, or their hometown, along with friends and family...I can see a delimma happening there for some.

[WebmasterAlex]

I wonder how much more violence could have been prevented and lives saved with 1/3 more police officers.
I don't understand why everyone wants to make excuses for them. I think we are so used to the police officers are hero's rhetoric it's too hard to switch gears and realize that 1/3 of the NO police department consisted of a bunch of cowards.
Everyone wants to blame the federal government but it starts at a local level. An extra 500 officers could have made a differnce

[Lisa loves Pooh]

What about getting there families out! I know I would have a hard time leaving with my children and leaving DH behind.....to what fate no one knows.

That is part of the job though---

You cannot just decide..oh a hurricane is coming....I'll just leave now.


I'm with you Alex--I didn't know that 1/3 of the force left. I don't know how much that manpower is--but surely an impact on the security of the city.

[dvcgirl]

1/3 of the NO police department went awol....


I heard that the figure was 60% earlier this morning...

Such a shame...the whole thing..

[Pete's Mom]

It is not understandable to me! How many NY police officers died going in to what they knew to be a life threatening situation Firemen too! :(

[Sheree Bobbins]

And what about their families? Do they even know if their families are safe? In oppressive heat and the other negative factors, I don't blame them.

[poohandwendy]

2/3rd's of them stayed! They not only abandoned their job they abandoned their fellow officers. Sorry but they are nothing but cowardsI totally agree. 'To serve and protect' does not mean cut and run when it gets scary. I do not think it is understandable at all. Many, MANY police officers RAN into the twin towers when they KNEW they were going to die there. These police officers should be ashamed of themselves.

[poohandwendy]

Everyone wants to blame the federal government but it starts at a local level. An extra 500 officers could have made a differnce
AMEN!!!!!

[frozone]

I would say only those officers who faced the same situation and chose to stay have the right to call them cowards. Seems kind of like a cheap shot to do the same from behind a keyboard in a safe, dry home.

[wvrevy]

2 things....

1 - I had heard a couple days ago that they had made a special effort to get the emergency workers families out (police, fire, etc.) so that the workers could focus on the task at hand. Have no idea how that progressed, but there were supposedly plans in place, at least.

2 - I have a hard time judging those men for quitting. I have a hard time with them quitting, but I just don't think any of us can imagine the stress that they've been under for the last week. It's just a horrendous situation from top to bottom. If I didn't know where my family was...didn't know if they were safe or not...well, I'd have a hard time staying on the job, too. Oath or no oath, family comes first.

[poohandwendy]

In oppressive heat and the other negative factors, I don't blame them.For petes sake...these aren't mail room paper pushers, they are POLICE OFFICERS!

[SherryNC]

Wow, that is a disheartening and discouraging story. :sad2: I understand being overwhelmed, frustrated, etc., but I just can't wrap my mind around that many officers abandoning their post, fellow officers, and fellow Americans. :confused3 My grandfather was a police officer. I grew up not even being allowed to use the word "cops" because it was considered disrespectful. I hold that profession in very high regard and admire them tremendously. My heart goes out to those that obviously where in a horrible situation to have made that decision, but they will now have to live with that choice on their conscience. :guilty:

[tiggersmom2]

2 - I have a hard time judging those men for quitting. I have a hard time with them quitting, but I just don't think any of us can imagine the stress that they've been under for the last week. It's just a horrendous situation from top to bottom. If I didn't know where my family was...didn't know if they were safe or not...well, I'd have a hard time staying on the job, too. Oath or no oath, family comes first.

Amen to that wvrevy.......I agree totally.

[Serena]

I do have a hard time feeling critical from my warm safe home. However, their fellow officers and the people that counted on them might not be so generous.

[poohandwendy]

I would say only those officers who faced the same situation and chose to stay have the right to call them cowards. Seems kind of like a cheap shot to do the same from behind a keyboard in a safe, dry home.
What they are doing does not just affect the other officers, it affects the citizens too. Even some of the citizens who post here and their famlies. If they were private citizens, I would agree. But they are paid, public servants.

[magicfan]

They are probably afraid those crazy, our of control thugs are going to just kill them. They (the thugs) don't seem to be concerned about getting in trouble. I think the cops should all be given bullet proof vests to wear, at least.

[tiggersmom2]

If they were private citizens, I would agree. But they are paid, public servants.

Yes, but being a paid, public servant doesn't make you a robot....you still have fears and a breaking point. I am certainly not saying it is right....but I understand. I don't feel good about them going AWOL but I think they were at the breaking point and just couldn't go on. :guilty:

[wvjules]

how do they know they went awol or ran for the hills. could they possibly be dead or stranded in an attic or somewhere else? I'm sure some of them ran but I wouldn't be suprised if more of them are there, just not in a position to help.

[N.Bailey]

A lot of them probably thought, what can I do? Really, what could they do? The jail was underwater. They couldn't even transport all the inmates and they ended up releasing the non violent ones. It's like their hands would have been totally tied and from all accounts, it didn't appear that was going to change anytime soon.

IF they didn't know the status of their loved ones, I can agree, that would have made me walk too. Of course, I didn't take their oath though.

I just can't cast the stones sitting in my nice cool home, with my belly well fed, and a knowledge that my kids are sound asleep in their own bed.

[shortbun]

Until I have walked in their shoes, I have real trouble judging and name calling.
40% is a lot to have abandoned their posts. I see this as different from 9/11 in that
the rescuers knew at the end of one day what the extent of the damage was and if their families were safe or not AND they were fighting to find and save fellow PD and firefighters("family") in huge numbers. I do not imply that they would not have worked as tirelessly or have sacrificed as much if peers had not been involved BUT I think "family" is paramount. I heard someone say today that once Natl Guard arrived, they took over despite not being in charge. This was because the disaster was so beyond the scope of training and ability of the PD and firefighters locally. I'm not judging anyone is this one. I wish everyone would stop the judging. It's kinda like armchair coaching. Easy to do with nothing real on the line.

[poohandwendy]

Yes, but being a paid, public servant doesn't make you a robot....you still have fears and a breaking point. I am certainly not saying it is right....but I understand. I don't feel good about them going AWOL but I think they were at the breaking point and just couldn't go on. :guilty:No, it does not make them robots...it makes them trained to handle the stress of dire situations. I'm sorry but what if ALL police officers did the same in that area?

I am not saying I do not feel for them but this is cowardice. There are unarmed civilians that are handling this better. It is a dirty rotten shame that the people of NOLA have so many people letting them down. A real shame.

[WebmasterAlex]

What if the national guardsman said "I'm not going in to New Orleans, it's too dangerous!"
They would be court martialed and spend a long time in a military prison.
The newsmen didn't cut and run.
Nurses and Doctors stayed
Fireman stayed
If I lived in New Orleans and was trapped there I would sure as HECK be judging those cowards.
I still believe that we have had "police officers are hero's" so drilled into our heads that is inconcievable to us to believe that 1/3 of a major metropolitan police department are nothing but cowards.
1 out of every 3
Unbelievable
Everyone complains about the "lack of planning", who could have planned for a third of the police department running

[Teejay32]

No one gets paid enough to get between a hungry mob and a grocery store. And would you even want to? They're supposed to stop people from stealing buses and boats to get to stranded people...I'm sure some just quit when it got dangerous, but there are other issues there too.

[MoniqueU]

5 days with no relief will take the best of them.
No it will take the worst of them.

[roger_ramjet]

That really isn't good enough. Bad situation or not, they have a critical job to perform. They abandoned their colleagues and more importantly, the people of New Orleans still left behind. It's all very well to offer excuses, but when it comes down to it - it's not good enough.

[jonestavern]

Two different things. Enormous tragedy though it was, not many lost their homes on 9/11, or their hometown, along with friends and family...I can see a delimma happening there for some.
Yes, what about their families? what about their lack of sleep/food? How about being seriously sniped at?
What about the lack of support from state & federal agencies?
were the officers families evacuated? that would save a the officers a lot of turmoil
Yes, my knee jerk reaction is to be really ticked off at the 'deserters", it would have been better for all had they stayed. I wonder about their training, also.
But the situation on 9/11 & this massive catastrophe have little in common save abject human misery-
My Dad used to have to fly aircraft out whenever a hurricane threatened (we lived in Hawaii, Gulf Coast Texas & RI). Sometimes the Navy sheltered us, sometimes not. Those times they didn't was very scary. I can see why they may have decided to protect their loved ones-
Certainly don't excuse their actions, but I will not judge until I know the whole picture

Jean

[poohandwendy]

What if the national guardsman said "I'm not going in to New Orleans, it's too dangerous!"
They would be court martialed and spend a long time in a military prison.
The newsmen didn't cut and run.
Nurses and Doctors stayed
Fireman stayed
If I lived in New Orleans and was trapped there I would sure as HECK be judging those cowards.
I still believe that we have had "police officers are hero's" so drilled into our heads that is inconcievable to us to believe that 1/3 of a major metropolitan police department are nothing but cowards.
1 out of every 3
Unbelievable
Everyone complains about the "lack of planning", who could have planned for a third of the police department runningExactly. Sheesh, it's not like they have been living through months of hell. It has been less than a week! If this is what the people have to 'protect' them in NOLA...wow, what a shame.

[tiggersmom2]

No, it does not make them robots...it makes them trained to handle the stress of dire situations. I'm sorry but what if ALL police officers did the same in that area?

I am not saying I do not feel for them but this is cowardice. There are unarmed civilians that are handling this better. It is a dirty rotten shame that the people of NOLA have so many people letting them down. A real shame.

I know you are right Wendy....but...I still can understand how they felt. I'm not proud to admit that, but I do understand. :guilty: Again, I don't think it is right, but I can see myself doing the same thing in that situation......thank goodness I am a RDH and can run like the scared rabbit I am in disaster situations!!

[tiggerdog]

I know of a police officer who walked of of her job in the Superdome.

She is on her way to our state to be with her brother and his family. Her brother is one of my co-workers.

Why did she leave her post, you ask?

Because she was assulted and very close to being raped while on duty in the Superdome while a group of thugs watched. Thankfully another group of men stepped in and saved her.

My co-worker said his sister handed her badge and gun to her supervisor as she left the building.

I dare you to call her a coward.

[poohandwendy]

I know you are right Wendy....but...I still can understand how they felt. I'm not proud to admit that, but I do understand. Again, I don't think it is right, but I can see myself doing the same thing in that situation......thank goodness I am a RDH and can run like the scared rabbit I am in disaster situations!!
I understand what you are saying, totally. That is why you and I are not police officers or soldiers. But we NEED to rely on those who choose and were trained to be police officers. The people of NOLA desperately NEED them to hold it together. They need their protection and even one walking away makes it much more dangerous for every citizen there.

I wonder how many lives will be lost because 1/3 (I still cannot even comprehend that amount!) decided they couldn't do their job? What a shame.

[poohandwendy]

nevermind...

[WebmasterAlex]

Update- In an interview with CNN a General announced that the figure stated by someone earlier was correct. 2/3's of the police department walked off the job.
The General said that caused a "substantial" delay in the rescue and relief efffort. They had to reconfigure the effort to take care of law enforcement that should have been handeled by the NO police.

I have to wonder how many lives were lost by the cowardice of the NO police.

[dvcgirl]

Update- In an interview with CNN a General announced that the figure stated by someone earlier was correct. 2/3's of the police department walked off the job.
The General said that caused a "substantial" delay in the rescue and relief efffort. They had to reconfigure the effort to take care of law enforcement that should have been handeled by the NO police.

I have to wonder how many lives were lost by the cowardice of the NO police.

That's close to what I had heard 60%. Those police officers should be ashamed of themselves. As a former registered nurse...we had to go, had to stay, but we stayed for emergency situations because we took an oath to take care of others. It would have made a *huge* difference in the response. I think of the NYPD and the FDNY and man, were they ever heros during the 9/11 disaster. They were hailed all over the world for their dedication under harrowing circumstances. It's a shame that the NOPD will go down in history as cowards. Especially sad for the 40% who did stay...it must have been terrible for them.

[BuckNaked]

2/3!!!! Incredible.

[babar]

I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that it's disturbing to say the least.

[lyeag]

I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that it's disturbing to say the least.
Disgusting.

[Free4Life11]

I know of a police officer who walked of of her job in the Superdome.

She is on her way to our state to be with her brother and his family. Her brother is one of my co-workers.

Why did she leave her post, you ask?

Because she was assulted and very close to being raped while on duty in the Superdome while a group of thugs watched. Thankfully another group of men stepped in and saved her.

My co-worker said his sister handed her badge and gun to her supervisor as she left the building.

I dare you to call her a coward.

I don't blame her for walking out.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Update- In an interview with CNN a General announced that the figure stated by someone earlier was correct. 2/3's of the police department walked off the job.
The General said that caused a "substantial" delay in the rescue and relief efffort. They had to reconfigure the effort to take care of law enforcement that should have been handeled by the NO police.

I have to wonder how many lives were lost by the cowardice of the NO police.

:earseek:

Where the heck did they all go!!!!!

Oh my--when this city gets back on its feet--they're going to have to rethink their screening process for those who serve and protect!

tiggerdog--sorry about that woman...but just think---if 2/3's didn't walk away...she might not have been endangered.

[C.Ann]

Pretty disheartening, isn't it? 2/3's? :earseek:

[TallyLassie]

Everyone isn't cute from the same cloth, and all may not have the same physical or mental fortitude. Granted, they probably should not have become police officer, but sometimes you don't know your abilities until you are tested.

My husband is a law enforcement officer in Florida, and there is a chance that he may have to go. I feel selfish saying this, but I hope he doesn't have to...

[WebmasterAlex]

I don't blame her for walking out.

Why in god's name would she be alone in a situation like that? There weren't other officers with her? If they were allowing any officer, male or female to operate alone the leadership of the police department should be shot!

[HaleyB]

Deleated- why bother.

[Luv2Roam]

This goes back some years, and someone correct me if I am wrong.
As it has been pointed out in all the media, LA is a poor state.
Not THAT long ago there was a crisis within the NOPD. Their pay was very little, compared to national average, and the quality of police who applied and was hired showed.
When things got very bad, they increased the pay and weeded out the problems.
Just mentioning this as there has been a history of important issues detrimental to the public when it comes to NOPD.
Hopefully this problem will be rectified too.

[N.Bailey]

Why in god's name would she be alone in a situation like that? There weren't other officers with her? If they were allowing any officer, male or female to operate alone the leadership of the police department should be shot!
She was probably alone because 60% walked out. I know that sounds a little redundant, but it's probably very truthful.

[Thea]

N0PD seems to have some problems. I was very supprised when CNN showed several cases where NOPD officers not only stood by when thugs where looting but where actively participating in the looting. When asked about it by the reporter on site, they in one instance just smiled and said that the items (laptop/cd's ) would be destroyed by the water anyway.

I really sympathise with the NOPD officer who was so angry. He looked liked he'd been through hell, and the feeling of betrayal was obvious. I salute the people who stayed and tried to live up to their oaths, They are the true heroes.

Thea

[lmhall2000]

Hallelujah! Let's CELEBRATE the 1/3 or 1/2 that STAYED!!! Those men/women can do twice the work that the deserters could have accomplished!!

If you haven't followed the NOPD over the past decade you might have missed that more than 1/2 the force was corrupt over these years. It was a horrible situation where the policemen were more corrupt than the criminals they apprehended. They have had a hard time cleaning up the force and maybe this is a great way to CLEAN out the force. For the poor lady who was assaulted...she had to leave...but she WAS THERE where she was needed until her safety came under fire. I feel pretty sure that the majority of those who left...did so before they were of any assistance. There was a scene where 3-4 buses were waiting to take folks out and the newsreporter asked why they weren't taking the elderly/injured...and he was told it was reserved for police officers and their families to GET OUT. Those that took care of their own obviously went with them. I just pray that they are never allowed to be reinstated in any capacity as an officer under oath to protect and serve...the key is to protect and serve OTHERS not just themself.

My heart goes out to those who stayed....

Tara

[tiggerdog]

Why in god's name would she be alone in a situation like that? There weren't other officers with her? If they were allowing any officer, male or female to operate alone the leadership of the police department should be shot!

First, she walked out Tuesday night/early Wednesday morning. I'm sure I will know more this week. Other officers did help her after she was pulled from the thugs. They just couldn't get there in time because of the chaos.

Her brother told us that there were not enough officers in the Super Dome for the amount of people there. He said that on any given day the NO PD has at least 500 job openings for police officers. They only make $29,000 a year so it is hard to keep officers.

Because the department was already under staffed it is hard to cover the city under normal circumstances. We can all agree that this is far from normal circumstances so the officers are stretched even thinner.

No one is to blame except those who act like animals.

ETA, we should not judge until we have been in these circumstances or we know all of the details.

[TallyLassie]

Just read this:

Two New Orleans police officers shot and killed themselves, one Friday, one Saturday, according to Capt. Marlo Defillo, a police spokesman. "They're all taxed," he said. "But we're still going strong."

[arminnie]

Exactly. Sheesh, it's not like they have been living through months of hell. It has been less than a week! If this is what the people have to 'protect' them in NOLA...wow, what a shame.

As many fine officers as there are in the NOLA police force, they're been too many bad apples over the past few years. Unfortunately this doesn't shock me at all - disappoints me profoundly but does not shock me.

I do a lot of work with one of the major universities in N.O. One of our students was raped by a police officer a couple of years ago. About a year ago the granddaughter of a good friend (a policer officer herself) was murdered by another police officer. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

There's been an undertow of "bad" in the department for too long.

[gabbysmom04]

I did not read this whole board so I may be a little off here. Let me start by saying my DH is a state trooper in NY. And he was telling me that what these police have to deal with is horrible. There is no excuse for it! It is not as if they are just trying to control wild people. They also lost their homes and their city. Maybe they lost family, maybe they are hungry too? And before we all sit back and call people cowards how many of us have ever had to deal with what is going on there? I wonder who would be able to handle it. :confused3

[WebmasterAlex]

The nurses stayed

The doctors stayed

The reporters stayed

Paramedics stayed

A whole LOT of people stayed

But the police, the ones we count on in an emergency ran and their running is directly responsible for a delay in getting help to the citizens of New Orleans and many deaths

There just aren't any excuses

[cati]

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[WebmasterAlex]

I would certainly understand it if a few officers left because they couldn't handle it or had some special circumstances. Obviously everyone has their own breaking point.
But it wasn't a few it was 2/3'rds
And certainly they can, should and will be judged

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I would certainly understand it if a few officers left because they couldn't handle it or had some special circumstances. Obviously everyone has their own breaking point.
But it wasn't a few it was 2/3'rds
And certainly they can, should and will be judged

I wonder if they can be prosecuted for it.

[cati]

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[Lisa loves Pooh]

Lisa, no, they can not be prosecuted for leaving, if they turned in their gun and badge. They are only required to uphold the law if they are on duty. An officer can walk away from a job at any time. Only the military can be "prosecuted" for walking away.


What about the guy who took his patrol car then. If he's no longer a cop--emergency or not--it is no longer his car.
:confused3

I doubt any of these men will ever get a job as a cop again regardless of the circumstances of their sudden and illtimed departure.

I wonder what they will do for a job now. Technically--they don't qualify for unemployment. They still had a job and they weren't fired.

[poohandwendy]

The nurses stayed

The doctors stayed

The reporters stayed

Paramedics stayed

A whole LOT of people stayed

But the police, the ones we count on in an emergency ran and their running is directly responsible for a delay in getting help to the citizens of New Orleans and many deaths

There just aren't any excusesNot to mention the fact that those people you mention above who DID stay are not armed to protect themselves. The police officers were.

2/3 of the police force...sigh. That is just disgraceful.

[poohandwendy]

What about the guy who took his patrol car then. If he's no longer a cop--emergency or not--it is no longer his car.
:confused3

I doubt any of these men will ever get a job as a cop again regardless of the circumstances of their sudden and illtimed departure.

I wonder what they will do for a job now. Technically--they don't qualify for unemployment. They still had a job and they weren't fired.

I was just thinking the same thing.

[cati]

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[Lisa loves Pooh]

I have not heard about the guy who took his patrol car. What happened??


(note--I don't think you are defending them--I pondered the possibility and then when you said they are removed from liability if they turn in badge and gun....I remembered.....)

It was one cop being interviewed--and I kind of felt bad for him. He had turned in his gun and his badge and drove his patrol car to Texas.

Now they may not be able to prosecute them for leaving duty--but if they find too many missing patrol cars...there are other ways :teeth: .

I know they've been through alot....but man...you just know there is going to be a congressional probe and then a hearing---and the Mayor is going to get raked over the coals.

I just think in a natural disaster--when THAT many walk away and say "Nope, don't wanna play anymore"--It wasn't like the Mayor could do anything with them.

I think they shoulder some of the responsibility for what has happened in New Orleans. So pardon my desire for revenge--but if you don't want to be a cop--find your own darn transportation out of town!

[cati]

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[WebmasterAlex]

Cati, on a shelf above my desk I have a baseball cap with 4 letters on it. NYPD, it was given to me by a New York police officer who was injured on 9/11.

The VAST majority of police officers in this country are like the NYPD or your husband. It does not take much of a google search to learn that the NO police were a troubled bunch. As several posters indicated here the reputation was horrible.

What does this do for future disaster planning? How can you plan for a disaster when the example is going to show 2/3'rds of the police officers walking away?

[Lisa loves Pooh]

What does this do for future disaster planning? How can you plan for a disaster when the example is going to show 2/3'rds of the police officers walking away?

Methinks that those who stayed behind SHOULD get a payraise...and since the population willl be VERY slow to return...they can rebuild the department from the ground up just as they will do with the city.


I am having a very very hard time imagining--that New Orleans can return to its crime ridden city it was.

[cati]

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[Bunch24]

It is not understandable to me! How many NY police officers died going in to what they knew to be a life threatening situation
It IS part of the job description.
I can understand a few but at least 1/3?????

One VERY big difference, for 9/11 the people being rescued weren't shooting at the firemen/cops.

I heard one officer on the radio saying the reason he left was:

"I'm not going to stick around and try to help people that don't want help. I'm not going to try to rescue or protect someone that's shooting at me. It's a hard enough job without having to dodge bullets. I'm sorry, it's just not worth it."

I'm sure you heard of the officer that was shot in the head while trying to stop a looter, as well as the National Guardsmen that was shot to death in the Superdome

So, the question is...did they quit, or were they forced out?

[poohandwendy]

"I'm not going to stick around and try to help people that don't want help. I'm not going to try to rescue or protect someone that's shooting at me. It's a hard enough job without having to dodge bullets. I'm sorry, it's just not worth it."
There were not hundreds of people shooting at rescuers, but there were tens of thousands of who did want and NEED his help.So, the question is...did they quit, or were they forced out? They quit. For whatever reason, they quit. And in doing so, they left innocent and unarmed people to deal with the thugs and the mulitude of other dangers.

[babar]

The nurses stayed

The doctors stayed

The reporters stayed

Paramedics stayed

A whole LOT of people stayed

But the police, the ones we count on in an emergency ran and their running is directly responsible for a delay in getting help to the citizens of New Orleans and many deaths

There just aren't any excuses


I didn't read the rest of the posts, I just agree with this.

[Bob NC]

Cati, on a shelf above my desk I have a baseball cap with 4 letters on it. NYPD, it was given to me by a New York police officer who was injured on 9/11.

The VAST majority of police officers in this country are like the NYPD or your husband. It does not take much of a google search to learn that the NO police were a troubled bunch. As several posters indicated here the reputation was horrible.

What does this do for future disaster planning? How can you plan for a disaster when the example is going to show 2/3'rds of the police officers walking away?

During 9/11 the NYPD didn't have to worry about getting their families to safety. Their houses weren't flooded. There wasn't a mandatory evacuation of the city. I don't see ANY similarities between what's going on in NO and the 9/11 terrorist strike.

It's very easy to sit at your computer far form the disaster and proclaim that police officers with Moms, Dads, Spouses, Sisters, Brothers, Grandkids and Kids, should abandon them to take care of everyone else. Sure, they get paid to provide for the public welfare, BUT.....If YOUR house were under water, if YOUR family was in your attic, if YOU as the provider and protector of YOUR family were in this situation....Tell me NOW with 100% assurance that you would go to your JOB rather than do whatever it takes to protect and safeguard your FAMILY.

We don't know the personal situations of all these police officers that didn't report for duty. Well, I say "we", but it sounds as if you apparantly DO know.

[TallyLassie]

It's very easy to sit at your computer far form the disaster and proclaim that police officers with Moms, Dads, Spouses, Sisters, Brothers, Grandkids and Kids, should abandon them to take care of everyone else. Sure, they get paid to provide for the public welfare, BUT.....If YOUR house were under water, if YOUR family was in your attic, if YOU as the provider and protector of YOUR family were in this situation....Tell me NOW with 100% assurance that you would go to your JOB rather than do whatever it takes to protect and safeguard your FAMILY.



I agree, no one knows these officer's circumstances, so how could anyone possibly say what they would do? We are in are warm, safe, homes, so it is much easier to be brave, and call them cowards.

[JimMIA]

The brave and self-righteous among you should walk a mile in a cop's shoes on a GOOD day! How easy it is to sit in air conditioned comfort and make clever observations by just typing on a keyboard.

What about the two New Orleans police officers who committed suicide - one Friday and one Saturday? Did they violate their oaths? Would you have handled that uncomfortable situation differently? What's your plan?

Some of us should stick to topics we actually know something about.

Have a nice day.

Jim
Lieutenant (retired after 25 years)
Miami-Dade Police Department
Miami

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I agree, no one knows these officer's circumstances, so how could anyone possibly say what they would do? We are in are warm, safe, homes, so it is much easier to be brave, and call them cowards.

True but the liklihood that they will be hired by anybody in that capacity again when they walked away from an emergency is unlikely.

I'm sure that some of the men were indeed cowards and left early on if not before the hurricane.

On 9/11--the comparison is--what if the fire department decided...it was just "too scary" to walk in those buildings.

I think it is a valid comparison. If they just decided it was too scary...more would have died. If after the collapse--they decided it was too scary to stick around..more people would have died. ...but they didn't--they brushed off the debris and kept working and helped the injured. I'm sure at that point--they had no idea if anything else was going to happen.

[Bob NC]

On 9/11--the comparison is--what if the fire department decided...it was just "too scary" to walk in those buildings.

I think it is a valid comparison. If they just decided it was too scary...more would have died. If after the collapse--they decided it was too scary to stick around..more people would have died. ...but they didn't--they brushed off the debris and kept working and helped the injured. I'm sure at that point--they had no idea if anything else was going to happen.

Not really a valid comparison. A GOOD comparison would be: "it was just "too scary" to walk in those buildings."...AND, your OWN family is directly in harms way....Your OWN family is also under evacuation orders....Your OWN house and belongings are destroyed....Your OWN family needs YOUR protection....

Quite different sets of situations.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Not really a valid comparison. A GOOD comparison would be: "it was just "too scary" to walk in those buildings."...AND, your OWN family is directly in harms way....Your OWN family is also under evacuation orders....Your OWN house and belongings are destroyed....Your OWN family needs YOUR protection....

Quite different sets of situations.

How do you not know they weren't worried? Isn't it possible they had spouses, siblings, and such working in harms way.

There will not ever be an exact comparison.

Nobody knew what was going on and if it was going to happen again.

[poohandwendy]

Not really a valid comparison. A GOOD comparison would be: "it was just "too scary" to walk in those buildings."...AND, your OWN family is directly in harms way....Your OWN family is also under evacuation orders....Your OWN house and belongings are destroyed....Your OWN family needs YOUR protection....
You seem to forget that when they were going into those buildings on 9-11 the firemen had NO IDEA if their family members, homes and belongings were in harms way. As far as anyone knew at that point, the nation was under attack and was still being attacked. Yet, they still did their jobs and didn't walk away from those who needed them immediately.

If anything, the police in NOLA who walked days after the hurricane had much more opportunity to find out if their family members were alive...also, they knew a hurricane was coming and had time beforehand to get them out of the city.

[epcotfan]

The brave and self-righteous among you should walk a mile in a cop's shoes on a GOOD day! How easy it is to sit in air conditioned comfort and make clever observations by just typing on a keyboard.

What about the two New Orleans police officers who committed suicide - one Friday and one Saturday? Did they violate their oaths? Would you have handled that uncomfortable situation differently? What's your plan?

Some of us should stick to topics we actually know something about.

Have a nice day.

Jim
Lieutenant (retired after 25 years)
Miami-Dade Police Department
Miami

I agree with you Jim. My father is a retired Police Officer and I know exactly what you are talking about. Several officers at my father's station commited suicide over the years. My father was also suicidal at one point. It is an extremely physically and mentally taxing job on a good day. Add in the stress of having your home destroyed, injured or dead family members, lack of rest, and limited resources, then it is a recipe for total burn out. I think many people would choose leaving their job for their family any day in those horrible circumstances.

[Bob NC]

You seem to forget that when they were going into those buildings on 9-11 the firemen had NO IDEA if their family members, homes and belongings were in harms way. As far as anyone knew at that point, the nation was under attack and was still being attacked.

Very true. The fireman on 9/11 had NO IDEA if their family members, homes and belongings were in harms way.

However, the New Orleans police KNEW their family members, homes and belongings were in harms way.


Yet, they still did their jobs and didn't walk away from those who needed them immediately.

If there were a disaster and MY family needed me immediately, I wouldn't be going to work. Would you?

[poohandwendy]

I think many people would choose leaving their job for their family any day in those horrible circumstances.
Then why hasn't this mass exodus of police officers leaving their jobs happened during any other disaster? This is not the first time police officers have been faced with such dire circumstances, but I have NEVER heard of the vast majority of a city's police force walking away.

[poohandwendy]

Very true. The fireman on 9/11 had NO IDEA if their family members, homes and belongings were in harms way.

However, the New Orleans police KNEW their family members, homes and belongings were in harms way.



If there were a disaster and MY family needed me immediately, I wouldn't be going to work. Would you?

Really? They knew their family members were in harms way? Why were their family members there after a mandatory evacuation?

No, I would not be going to work...then again, I am not armed, trained and paid to protect the citizens of my city. If I was capable of being a police officer and took that oath, I would NOT walk away.

I think we do ALL good police officers a gross injustice to excuse this as an expected reaction. Especially since most would NOT walk away from their duty, as has been shown time and time again under the horrible circumstances of other disasters. (MANY of whom have died doing heir jobs)

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think we do ALL good police officers a gross injustice to excuse this as an expected reaction. Especially since most would NOT walk away from their duty, as has been shown time and time again under the horrible circumstances of other disasters.

Along the lines of encouraging nurses and doctors to evacuate in advance of a storm--sure it saves their life. But it endangers those who cannot save themselves.

If ANYONE should have a family evacuation plan in a hurricane zone--it is rescue workers and law enforcement.

[Bob NC]

Really? They knew their family members were in harms way? Why were their family members there after a mandatory evacuation?

For the same reason the 100,000 + people remained after evacuation orders. Even though not following the evacuation order was a mistake, this area has had a lot of 'false alarms'.


No, I would not be going to work...then again, I am not armed, trained and paid to protect the citizens of my city. If I was capable of being a police officer and took that oath, I would NOT walk away.

This is a statement that can't be argued with. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. There is no way in the world I can have any kind of response to someone who tells me they would go to work even if their FAMILY is in imminent danger of death. Though I can tell you that I personally know not one single person that would act so altruistically.


I think we do ALL good police officers a gross injustice to excuse this as an expected reaction. Especially since most would NOT walk away from their duty, as has been shown time and time again under the horrible circumstances of other disasters.

I challenge you to name any other disaster with this set of circumstances. This is a continuing disaster. There was a hurricane. A second disaster was the levee breaches. The city is flooded. FDNY members during 9/11 did not suffer a mass of planes contimuing to crash into THEIR OWN homes. Fire and Police officials during hurricane Andrew were not in a situation where EVERY one of them that lived in the towns they worked lost their homes. Andrew hit, after the storm was gone they all knew immediately what the status of their homes and families were. The tsunami came in and went back out, it was a big disaster, but one where the damage was immediate, swift and finished....The disaster did not continue and get worse for days on end.

There just aren't disasters comparable in scope, damage, personal effect on human lives to this one.

[poohandwendy]

For the same reason the 100,000 + people remained after evacuation orders. Even though not following the evacuation order was a mistake, this area has had a lot of 'false alarms'.
So, you are saying that 2/3 of the NOLA police force did not make sure their family members left during a mandatory evacuation in which a cat 5 hurricane was expected to hit the area (when the vast majority of people DID leave)? I somehow doubt that was the case. This is a statement that can't be argued with. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. There is no way in the world I can have any kind of response to someone who tells me they would go to work even if their FAMILY is in imminent danger of death.
Actually, I am going with the assumption that I would make sure my family left when we realized there was a high chance that a category 5 hurricane was coming our way. So, I wouldn't be worrying about my family members being safe. I would have made sure they got out. Interesting that I have not heard one account of a police officer who left their job because their family was stuck in NOLA and faced danger. There is no way in the world I can have any kind of response to someone who tells me they would go to work even if their FAMILY is in imminent danger of death. Though I can tell you that I personally know not one single person that would act so altruistically.
Well, I can tell you just to turn on the TV to find the 'so altruistic'......note the nurses doctors, police officers and rescue workers who are still there. Same conditions. (except many of them are not armed) They didn't leave.The tsunami came in and went back out, it was a big disaster, but one where the damage was immediate, swift and finished....The disaster did not continue and get worse for days on end.
Um, yes as a matter of fact, it did. Your memory does not serve you very well. The conditions definitely became worse for days and weeks on end.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

There just aren't disasters comparable in scope, damage, personal effect on human lives to this one.


Okay--was their a mass exodus of law enforcment and rescue after the Tsunami?

They are VERY comparable events!

[Bob NC]

I actually don't know why all the officers left their duties. I was just assuming that maybe some of them left because they had loved ones lives to look after during this set of disasters. You've set me straight on that mistaken belief.

Apparantly you have information that I'm not privvy to. All the officers walked off the job because...because....um....Well, I guess because they were just plain scared, or, maybe because after years of being public servants they just turned into bad apples all of a sudden.

I can't wait for the day I live in a perfect world as so many DIS'ers seem to.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I actually don't know why all the officers left their duties. I was just assuming that maybe some of them left because they had loved ones lives to look after during this set of disasters. You've set me straight on that mistaken belief.

Apparantly you have information that I'm not privvy to. All the officers walked off the job because...because....um....Well, I guess because they were just plain scared, or, maybe because after years of being public servants they just turned into bad apples all of a sudden.

I can't wait for the day I live in a perfect world as so many DIS'ers seem to.

It isn't a perfect world--but you cannot have officials act properly if they are worried about their families. It should be part of the preparedness plan that their families get taken care of immediately for an approaching storm. Even if that means not protecting the home so that they have time to leave.

[RitaZ.]

N0PD seems to have some problems. I was very supprised when CNN showed several cases where NOPD officers not only stood by when thugs where looting but where actively participating in the looting. When asked about it by the reporter on site, they in one instance just smiled and said that the items (laptop/cd's ) would be destroyed by the water anyway.

Thea

I watched that on CNN as well, I couldn't believe my eyes. BTW, the police officers were women, they were going around the store pushing shopping carts and filling them. How can there not be looting when the police officers that are suppose to enforce the law are as corrupt as the citizens?

[pyrxtc]

2/3rd's of them stayed! They not only abandoned their job they abandoned their fellow officers. Sorry but they are nothing but cowards
If they were cowards, they never would have joined the force! They can't do their job. They don't have enough manpower or the right tools. They took an oath to uphold the law, not to try to police a place with no laws! That's just what NO is right now. Everyone is fighting for their own life and a lot of them have taken control of what they wanted, don't care if it's police or not, they are shooting.

[Shutterbug]

What if doctors and nurses decided to say "I'm outa here!"

[LoraJ]

The mayor of NOLA was just saying that there were 2 suicides in the police force because they wouldn't deal with it. He is coming up with a plan to get them out of the city (I am assuming once the NG has control) so that they can get some mental health evaluations.

[WebmasterAlex]

The brave and self-righteous among you should walk a mile in a cop's shoes on a GOOD day! How easy it is to sit in air conditioned comfort and make clever observations by just typing on a keyboard.

What about the two New Orleans police officers who committed suicide - one Friday and one Saturday? Did they violate their oaths? Would you have handled that uncomfortable situation differently? What's your plan?

Some of us should stick to topics we actually know something about.

Have a nice day.

Jim
Lieutenant (retired after 25 years)
Miami-Dade Police Department
Miami

As far as I am concerned the ones that killed themselves are the ones who stayed and I would be the last to judge them. The ones who stayed deserve everything we can give them and I am glad to see the New Orleans mayor doing something to help them.
Sorry but being a police officer is not some "mystical" thing that nobody can understand. I was a paramedic for 15 years so I have certainly have seen my share of ugly things.
Everyone can be judged for what they do.
There are a lot of police officers that will accept no critisism of any police officers anywhere but in this case there needs to be investigation and accountability

[Bunch24]

What if doctors and nurses decided to say "I'm outa here!"

Thousands of them did bail. But you don't hear about them. You only hear about the cops that quit. But there are THOUSANDS of nurses and doctors just in the city of Lafayette ALONE that left their hospitals and said they will NEVER RETURN to the city of New Orleans.

But I guess, it's OK for them to leave, because well, they didn't raise their right hand and put their left hand on a stack of bibles. Bull!

I don't have any animosity towards these cops. You guys up in Pennsylvania and New York and Maryland are only seeing what CNN and Fox News wants you to see. You don't see what our local media outlets are showing. Everyday we get new footage. On CNN, you get the same three clips looped over and over and over.

Kind of easy passing judgement on something when you're thousands of miles away.

[Bob NC]

Kind of easy passing judgement on something when you're thousands of miles away.


Exactly!!

[magicgirl]

I have just read this thread with increasing horror.

My husband was a police officer for 20 years before he retired. Police officers are human beings, no matter how much training they may receive it cannot make them deal with stress any differently to anyone else.

The only people qualified to pass judgement on the officers actions are the ones who stayed. People sitting safetly at their computers cannot know what it was like.

[cati]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[WebmasterAlex]

Actually what started this whole thread was a New Orleans Police officer who was on CNN screaming at the officers that quit that they were cowards and not worthy of wearing the badge.

Are you going to argue he is not qualified to judge?

[cati]

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[i like stitch]

The following (and the rest of the article) can be seen at: http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/ This is the greater New Orleans area newspaper.


Most officers working on adrenaline, little else
’I told them that the worst is yet to come’

By Michael Perlstein
Staff writer

When gunshots panicked an already desperate crowd of evacuees inside the nearly pitch-black Ernest N. Morial Convention Center, several New Orleans police officers instinctively pulled their guns and ran toward the pops. Just as quickly, they realized their weapons were useless amid the clusters of bedraggled families.

But they weaved their way toward the muzzle flash anyway, Superintendent Eddie Compass said, shining flashlights, groping with their hands, guided toward the shooter by evacuees pulling on their pants legs. When they got a bead on the gunman, they rushed to disarm him, despite the chance of facing more deadly fire.

Throughout the inundated city, what remained of the New Orleans Police Department was transformed into a virtual militia operation, Compass and other commanders said, forcing officers to freelance without radios, supplies or clear orders. Dozens of officers turned in their badges or fled without a word.

Some joined in with looters and marauders, plunging an already jittery situation into moments of complete societal breakdown.

"These events do two things: they show your strengths and they expose your weaknesses. We had both," Compass said.

But according to Compass, the majority of the 1,700-person force held its ground, figuring out ways to save lives and restore order, working to save the city despite, in many cases, becoming victims themselves.

"The bulk of this police department stood intact," Compass said in an interview, tears streaming down his face. "We fought the most unbelievable war imaginable and we survived . . . Some officers lost their houses and they’re still out there. Some officers lost family members and they’re still out there."

[WebmasterAlex]

Interesting article. The numbers fly in the face of what everyone else is saying. I guess we will find out.

I have NO DOUBT that many NO police performed many heroic deeds and many gave their life.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

But I guess, it's OK for them to leave, because well, they didn't raise their right hand and put their left hand on a stack of bibles. Bull!


No it isn't okay. Around here they would be fired.

Abandoning the duties that you signed a contract for--that is the consequence.

There are patients whose lives depend on those actions.

[PatsGirl]

Not making any judgments from my cushy home computer...

I have to agree with a poster who said that maybe the courage some thought/hoped they had when they took a job on the force just didn't arise when needed.

No judgements here (yet) but I'm also not excusing the actions of illegal behaviors, lack of judgement or just walking off the job so to say that has been the focus of this thread.

I have to wonder what it would be like to be a police officer with little backup, no jail cells, really none of the essential tools their training is based on, and try to maintain order. It's not like they can just up and shoot the thugs! though I can assume that many would have liked to do this!

This whole horror unfolding reminds me of a movie with Kurt Russell, I'm thinking it's called "Escape from New York"? Anyone relate?

Brenda

[Nancy]

Or how about Fort Apache?

[Bunch24]

No it isn't okay. Around here they would be fired.

Abandoning the duties that you signed a contract for--that is the consequence.

There are patients whose lives depend on those actions.

I don't want to keep arguing about this, but I doubt very seriously that their biggest concern right now is if they are FIRED or not. LOL

Most of the nurses and doctors I've talked to are looking for jobs around here. They said they've always been looking to get out of N.O. because it's getting worse and worse, Katrina provided the ultimate excuse.

I'm definitely not happy the officers quit their post and not happy that doctors and nurses left, but hell, I'm 100 miles away from there sleeping in a comfortable bed, eating hot meals, taking warm showers and wearing dry clothes. How would I react if I didn't have any of those things, PLUS had to worry about my patients/rescuees killing me?

I definitely salute the ones that stayed and those that did should get commendations, Keys to the City and BIG RAISES.

[WebmasterAlex]

Well somebody is wrong, I am kind of hoping the police chief is right, that would make me feel much better about things. Here is the part of the DOD press conference where it was brought up


The real issue, particularly in New Orleans, is that no one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans. Once that assessment was made, that the normal 1500 man police force in New Orleans was substantially degraded, which contributed obviously to less police presence and less police capability, then the requirement became obvious and that's when we started flowing military police into the theater.


Two days ago we flowed 1400 military policemen in. Yesterday, 1400 more. Today 1400 more. Today there are 7,000 citizen soldiers -- Army National Guard, badge-carrying military policemen and other soldiers trained in support to civil law enforcement -- that are on the streets, available to the mayor, provided by the governor to the mayor to assist the New Orleans police department.



I am absolutely confident that the security situation as it has improved in the last 24 hours will improve two-fold in the next 24 hours, and soon it won't be an issue at all.



Will something ever go wrong in New Orleans? Sure. Things went wrong in New Orleans and every other populated area around in our country and around the world every day. But I think you'll see a return to normal levels very soon, perhaps in the next 24 hours.



Q: General, you mentioned a disintegration of the New Orleans Police Department. Do you know how many officers are still on duty?



GEN. BLUM: I would rather not say. I think you'd be better to refer that question to the mayor of New Orleans. I have my own estimate. I would say they are significantly degraded and they have less than one-third of their original capability.



Q: So is it fair to say it is the National Guard that's keeping law and order in New Orleans?



GEN. BLUM: No. As long as there's one uniformed police officer in the city of New Orleans, we will send as many National Guard soldiers to augment, support and work in support of that lone law enforcement officer as necessary. So if hypothetically there's only one left, who's in charge? It's still that lone police officer supported by the National Guard in their role as military support to law enforcement.



We are not in the lead. We have no need nor intention of imposing martial law or having the military police the United States of America.



Q: What happened to the other police, general?



GEN. BLUM: Again, that can be best addressed, but what was told to me by the Mayor day before yesterday is many of them lost their homes, many of them lost ability to get to the precinct, many of them who did show up found what they were dealing with so overwhelming and dangerous or threatening to them as an individual that they made the personal decision to not risk their life until the situation made more sense to them. That was an individual decision, it was not the police chief's decision or the mayor's decision. I think that the mayor and police chief are working right now to reconstitute the New Orleans Police Department, but that question would much better be addressed to them for detail.

[TallyLassie]

“We had it made in Iraq, absolutely had it made,” said Col. Brad MacNealy of the Mississippi National Guard, who spent a year commanding the 185th Aviation Brigade’s 134 helicopters there.

“In Iraq, we had TV, communication, sleeping quarters, showers,” MacNealy said Sunday. “Here, these people haven’t had a shower. They’re using baby wipes. They can’t use cell phones... The year we spent in Iraq, the creature comforts were fantastic. I mean, people were complaining there because they didn’t have exercise equipment.”

[Miss Jasmine]

2/3rd's of them stayed! They not only abandoned their job they abandoned their fellow officers. Sorry but they are nothing but cowards
Agreed. DH is appalled at what he is hearing about the NOPD officers. We are saddened about the two who committed suicide, but the others who just went AWOL, that is not acceptable. You take an oath, you have to stand by it.

As an aside, he also told me that NOPD is pretty corrupt and he's not really surprised, but still how can you abandon the city you are sworn to serve and protect????

To the police officers who continue on, you are in our thoughts and prayers. DH is trying to figure out a way to get to one of the affected areas to help out, but with his small agency and three men out, it doesn't seem likely for some time.

[minniepumpernickel]

Did you guys know that two police officers also committed suicide? :guilty:

[Miss Jasmine]

Did you guys know that two police officers also committed suicide? :guilty:
Yes, I mentioned that in my post.