Michael Moore's Letter to Bush

[The Mystery Machine]

Just thought I would throw this out there. I am sure it will come up in the news and such. Might as well read it now.



Friday, September 2nd, 2005
Vacation is Over... an open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush



Friday, September 2nd, 2005

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com (mmflint@aol.com)
www.MichaelMoore.com (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php)

P.S. That annoying mother, Cindy Sheehan, is no longer at your ranch. She and dozens of other relatives of the Iraqi War dead are now driving across the country, stopping in many cities along the way. Maybe you can catch up with them (http://www.bringthemhomenowtour.org/userdata_display.php?modin=50) before they get to DC on September 21st.



http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php

[Pete's Mom]

Michael Moore is an idiot. :goodvibes

[wvrevy]

http://www.jivemagazine.com/images/smileys/super/thumbsup.gif

[wvrevy]

Michael Moore is an idiot. :goodvibes
Really ? And what, exactly, do you disagree with in that letter? Which fact are you disputing ?

[mickman1962]

Michael Moore is an idiot. :goodvibes

Your wrong, that should be capitol IDIOT

[Sandy22]

I think Micheal Moore showed restraint in that letter.

[mickman1962]

Really ? And what, exactly, do you disagree with in that letter? Which fact are you disputing ?

" Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days?"

Do you honestly think race has anything to do with it???

again IDIOT but a talented pot stirrer

[CRSNDSNY]

Michael Moore or not, there is no reason why days later people are still dying, starving, suffering, etc. This is the United States of America, not some third world country.

[JMD]

Michael Moore is an idiot. :goodvibes


::yes::

[Mickey's Monkey]

Really ? And what, exactly, do you disagree with in that letter? Which fact are you disputing ?


Has Moore left the fat farm to head to N.O. to help? I've not see any reports on what he is doing to help.

[theSurlyMermaid]

LOL, that letter was fabulous! I don't personally like Michael Moore, but that was a great letter.

[wvrevy]

" Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days?"

Do you honestly think race has anything to do with it???

again IDIOT but a talented pot stirrer

I've been asking myself that question for two days, to be honest with you. If all of those faces we are seeing on television pleading for help were white, would we have responded faster ?

Ask yourself this...How quickly do we respond to humanitiarian crises in Africa as opposed to Europe ?

I don't like the idea that race has played any part in it...but I'm also not naive enough to completely dismiss the idea out of hand, either.

[ashjohnson80]

I like Michael Moore.

[Pete's Mom]

Really ? And what, exactly, do you disagree with in that letter? Which fact are you disputing ? You know what wvrevy? I read this letter and all I see is a big ad for his next Bush bashing movie. :mad: How about offering some sympathies to the victims or making an actual contribution instead, or hell even in addition to this dribble. He makes me sick to my stomach. :sad2:

[wvrevy]

Has Moore left the fat farm to head to N.O. to help? I've not see any reports on what he is doing to help.

I don't know...Has Rush Limbaugh put down the crack pipe long enough to get off his fat behind and do anything ? :rolleyes:

[Mickey's Monkey]

Michael Moore or not, there is no reason why days later people are still dying, starving, suffering, etc. This is the United States of America, not some third world country.

Have you seen the pictures? Explain to us all how, exactly help is supposed to get to all these people given the infrastructure situation in N.O.

Details, please, because I'm sure we'd all like to know. Please describe, in detail, how you would get those supplies to the people who need them

It's very easy to look at this from the outside and say "this should not be happening". But, what would really help is for you to give the authorities your plan for how to resolve the problem.

[wvrevy]

You know what wvrevy? I read this letter and all I see is a big ad for his next Bush bashing movie. :mad: How about offering some sympathies to the victims or making an actual contribution instead, or hell even in addition to this dribble. He makes me sick to my stomach. :sad2:

How do you know what he has or hasn't done ? Is nobody capable of doing what they can to help and questioning the lack of leadership at the same time ? Oh...wait...that's right...I have. :rolleyes:

[JMD]

I don't know...Has Rush Limbaugh put down the crack pipe long enough to get off his fat behind and do anything ? :rolleyes:


What does Rush Limbaugh have to do with Michael Moore's letter to Bush?

[ThAnswr]

I don't know...Has Rush Limbaugh put down the crack pipe long enough to get off his fat behind and do anything ? :rolleyes:

I heard Bill O'Reilly picked up a loofah............

[skiwee1]

I'm not a MM fan but he hit it right on this one.

[wvrevy]

What does Rush Limbaugh have to do with Michael Moore's letter to Bush?
I was responding to a completely asinine comment with an equally asinine comment.

[CRSNDSNY]

Have you seen the pictures? Explain to us all how, exactly help is supposed to get to all these people given the infrastructure situation in N.O.

Details, please, because I'm sure we'd all like to know. Please describe, in detail, how you would get those supplies to the people who need them

It's very easy to look at this from the outside and say "this should not be happening". But, what would really help is for you to give the authorities your plan for how to resolve the problem.
I thought that was the president's job.

How about providing transportation to the poor PRIOR to the hurricane so that so many people wouldn't be left stranded? Seems like nobody cared enough.

There is just no excuse for the extreme to which this has come to. We can get every Tom, Dick and Harry reporter in there, but we can't get the dying babies out.

[patsal]

Not a big Michael moore fan, but this pretty much sums up much of what I've been thinking.

[Lessa of Pern]

I think Moore is prone to hyperbole, but...

I htink he points out a lot of the problems I've been wondring about too.

[JMD]

I was responding to a completely asinine comment with an equally asinine comment.

As long as you admit its asinine..... :teeth:

[AuntieM03]

I think since he has all the answers, he should run for President.

[JimB.]

Mr. Moore is, of course, free to speak out as he desires.

But I think an "open letter" exhorting people to aid in the effort with $$, supplies &/or volunteering where possible would be a little bit more productive right now..................

[peachgirl]

I was responding to a completely asinine comment with an equally asinine comment.

I hate to tell you, but you lost.

His comment was much more asinine than yours.


Explain to us all how, exactly help is supposed to get to all these people given the infrastructure situation in N.O.

Why don't you call the President then and tell him to quit *****ing. He doesn't think the federal response was satisfactory either.

You need to tell him to shut up, they're doing the best they can.

[mickman1962]

I think since he has all the answers, he should run for President.

I think the only thing he runs for is the buffet.

[Pete's Mom]

How do you know what he has or hasn't done ? Is nobody capable of doing what they can to help and questioning the lack of leadership at the same time ? Oh...wait...that's right...I have. :rolleyes: Read his letter. Did you see one iota about anything HE did or how anyone can help? Look at his web page. I don't see squat on his web page other than links to OTHER websites and that looks more like an after thought to me since you really have look for them in between all of the BUSH bashings banners that's for damn sure. :rolleyes: I can't say whether Moore has contributed to help the victims, but it appears to me that certainly isn't at the top of his agenda. :confused3

BTW - I think it is great that you have contributed to the relief effort. I wish that I could donate more. :(

[Planogirl]

Why couldn't supplies have been airlifted to the convention center much earlier? It's dry there isn't it? Plus there are helicopters already in use right?

If security is a problem why wasn't the military already in place to quell the disturbances around the convention center?

Is there an infrastructure problem that I'm missing?

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think Michael Moore has a point that we have all been trying to make.

Hindsight is 20/20---but for future disasters...secure the area first.

I don't 100% agree with MM and his comments (I stay away from the war talk!), but he has a point and I am glad that he is one of the many citizens who should be writing into the governement to light a fire under their butt. I just read the mayors comments---he used profanity in a press conference b/c it has gotten to that point! I could care less that Bush spent an extra couple of days on vacation--but I do now care that it has taken so long for the US Government to decide that the state couldn't care for itself.

But I cannot wait to read what all the Bush hating editorialists have to say. I'm afraid I might actually agree with some of them. I may have to go to confession.

[theSurlyMermaid]

Mr. Moore is, of course, free to speak out as he desires.

But I think an "open letter" exhorting people to aid in the effort with $$, supplies &/or volunteering where possible would be a little bit more productive right now..................

If you visit www.michaelmoore.com, where this letter is posted, riiiight next to it is a pile of links for those who want to a. help, b. provide housing for victims, c. file a missing person report, d. let others know they are OK.

[wvrevy]

I hate to tell you, but you lost.

His comment was much more asinine than yours.

Well, he has much more practice than I do ;)

And don't ya' just love how the best the right wing can do is call him "a big fatty fat guy" ? :rotfl: They can't be bothered by actual facts...they just want to call him names. :rolleyes: See...I've got to learn that technique if I'm ever to keep up in that competition.

"Bush is a big monkey-faced moron that would never have made anything of himself without being born with a silver spoon up his nose."

Nope...still needs work. ;)

[Mickey's Monkey]

Why couldn't supplies have been airlifted to the convention center much earlier? It's dry there isn't it? Plus there are helicopters already in use right?

If security is a problem why wasn't the military already in place to quell the disturbances around the convention center?

Is there an infrastructure problem that I'm missing?

Good questions to ask the mayor and the governor. But, I think one of the problem is there really wasn't a good place to stage the supplies as they had no idea where,exactly the damage was going to occur. What if it hit where the supplies were?

Watching the news, it seems there are now convoys moving in with supplies.

[Mickey's Monkey]

If you visit www.michaelmoore.com, where this letter is posted, riiiight next to it is a pile of links for those who want to a. help, b. provide housing for victims, c. file a missing person report, d. let others know they are OK.

Then why didn't he make that one more public than his Bush criticism letter? (that was a rhetorical question)

[WDSearcher]

How about providing transportation to the poor PRIOR to the hurricane so that so many people wouldn't be left stranded? Seems like nobody cared enough. OK ... good for next time, but how does that help get stuff to those folks now? I believe that was the question.

There is just no excuse for the extreme to which this has come to. We can get every Tom, Dick and Harry reporter in there, but we can't get the dying babies out. Remember that "we" are not getting every Tom, Dick and Harry reporter in there. The networks are doing that. And it's a heck of a lot easier to move a handful of reporters INTO an area like this than it is to move thousands of people out. Especially since the networks are designed for this -- to gather news in extreme situations. But, again, it's only a handful of people. Even if you're only talking about getting "the dying babies" out, how do you determine which babies get to go? and where? and who goes with them? and what do you say to the not-dying babies you have to leave behind?

I agree that there should have been a better plan for this, but I think that the mayor of New Orleans is adding to the problem. Where is his plan? His leadership? He seems to have no leadership skills at all, and instead is spending his time on the TV and radio, yelling at other people for not doing anything. I haven't seen him walking the streets of his own city, and yet Harry Connick Jr is there. Go figure.

:earsboy:

[theSurlyMermaid]

Then why didn't he make that one more public than his Bush criticism letter? (that was a rhetorical question)

I don't know. I guess he figured people who visit his site for open letters would see it as it right next to it. Plus, I hardly think people would have no idea they could help unless Michael Moore told them to do so.

[Mickey's Monkey]

I don't know. I guess he figured people who visit his site for open letters would see it as it right next to it. Plus, I hardly think people would have no idea they could help unless Michael Moore told them to do so.

Well, gee, Harry Connick Jr. seems to be doing so without criticizing the President. As does Tim McGraw. Wierd.

[JimB.]

riiiight next to it is a pile of links for those who want to a. help, b. provide housing for victims, c. file a missing person report, d. let others know they are OK.

I'm definitely NOT a MM fan, but I am glad to hear this. Hopefully that will be a LARGER PART OF HIS MESSAGE. He wants to bash Bush? Well hey, THERE'S a surprise.

Put the "helping" part of the message in bigger print next time.

[WDSearcher]

Why couldn't supplies have been airlifted to the convention center much earlier? It's dry there isn't it? Plus there are helicopters already in use right?

If security is a problem why wasn't the military already in place to quell the disturbances around the convention center?

Is there an infrastructure problem that I'm missing? From my understanding, the convention center wasn't really someplace that was identified as a shelter. It was "commandeered" at first by many of the looters, who had set up kind of a flea market there -- a place to sell what they had acquired to others who needed it. As people began going over there to buy things, they moved in farther and farther ... breaking into each area of the convention center as they went, looking for food and water, a little of which they found in various catering areas, which caused more people to continue to go there, in hopes of finding bathrooms to use or something to eat and drink. The convention center was never identified as a staging area, which (along with the absence of communication) is why it took so long for Homeland Defense and FEMA to understand what was needed there. They were concentrating on the official shelters that they'd set up. And, even though the media picked up on the convention center problem fairly early on, apparently no one got that information through to FEMA and Homeland Defense because the media thought they already knew.

A big snafu all-around.

:earsboy:

[CRSNDSNY]

I agree that there should have been a better plan for this, but I think that the mayor of New Orleans is adding to the problem. Where is his plan? His leadership? He seems to have no leadership skills at all, and instead is spending his time on the TV and radio, yelling at other people for not doing anything. I haven't seen him walking the streets of his own city, and yet Harry Connick Jr is there. Go figure.

:earsboy:
I agree. Saw Connick on ABC this morning.

It just seems that given the history of these areas, they should have been better prepared for a worse case scenario. The mayor should have known better. He knows what percentage of his population is living in poverty. What choice did they really have? None. Ride it out.

But is easy for me to say, "shoulda, coulda, woulda" -- on the outside looking in.

[CRSNDSNY]

OK ... good for next time, but how does that help get stuff to those folks now? I believe that was the question.
Well, that was what I was talking about.

Remember that "we" are not getting every Tom, Dick and Harry reporter in there. The networks are doing that.
Yes, but they have to get permission from someone to get into there. You or I couldn't just fly there ourselves. Where are the priorities?

[theSurlyMermaid]

Well, gee, Harry Connick Jr. seems to be doing so without criticizing the President. As does Tim McGraw. Wierd.

I suggest you get your head out of the sand (or whatever other dark place it might be stuck in) if you think members of the DISboards and Michael Moore are the only ones criticizing the president.

[WDSearcher]

I agree. Saw Connick on ABC this morning.

It just seems that given the history of these areas, they should have been better prepared for a worse case scenario. The mayor should have known better. He knows what percentage of his population is living in poverty. What choice did they really have? None. Ride it out.

But is easy for me to say, "shoulda, coulda, woulda" -- on the outside looking in. Human nature -- it's always easier to see the perfect solution when you're not in the middle of the fray. It was true after 9/11 ... true now. But you're right about the mayor knowing better. We can only hope that this will improve the plan for next time.

:earsboy:

[miste76]

It's interesting to see how people feel about Michael Moore. Since everyone else has expressed their opinion... I feel like expressing mine as well:
I have never paid to watch a Michael Moore film because I did not want to support him. I think Moore blows everything out of proportion and gives only his opinions in his films. I think he is an extremist in many ways!!!
I do wonder about some of the same issues that Moore pointed out in his letter but I know that there needs to be a lot of planning before going into NO and taking on a huge task like this. There is a lot of logistics to figure out and I'm not educated on the work that has to go into a huge task as this. I do have to wonder if something more could have been done earlier... but I do know that I can't put blame somewhere if I don't know that it truly belongs there.

[CRSNDSNY]

Human nature -- it's always easier to see the perfect solution when you're not in the middle of the fray. It was true after 9/11 ... true now. But you're right about the mayor knowing better. We can only hope that this will improve the plan for next time.

:earsboy:
And unfortunately, there will be a next time. You'd think they would have learned this already after what happened in '69.

[WDSearcher]

Yes, but they have to get permission from someone to get into there. You or I couldn't just fly there ourselves. Well ... maybe. If you're in a satellite news van with "ABC News" on the side of it, and you carry your own generator and food and water and are self-sufficient and are providing your own protection, the only person you're really asking for permission to enter is the National Guard or state trooper who is guarding the road. It's not like the news guys are calling the state government and asking for permission to film in New Orleans. News doesn't work like movies. If the news van can get in there, and no one is in their face telling them to leave, they can do the story. They don't get or expect any assistance, food, lodging, protection, etc. The news team realizes that they are there at their own risk, and they take that on.

If you and I hopped in our car and went up there, we're not self-sufficient. We need a place to stay, someone to direct us as to what to do, food to eat, water to drink, a relative guarantee of safety. Unless we're part of a planned relief effort, letting us into the city just means that there's more people to keep an eye on. We become just another batch of people in need of services. That's the difference.

:earsboy:

[nuke]

yes hindsight is 20/20. Too bad W doesn't watch the Discovery Channel or read Time Magazine. He would have known 5 years ago what could happen to NO. I know I have known for years that huge storm could wipe it out and I'm don't ever really NEED to know that information.
Too Bad W diverted the Levee funds to Iraq. Too Bad W sent the NATIONAL (as in our country) GUARD (as in protect) to IRAQ(not our country).

Hindsight sure is 20/20.

[CRSNDSNY]

Well ... maybe. If you're in a satellite news van with "ABC News" on the side of it, and you carry your own generator and food and water and are self-sufficient and are providing your own protection, the only person you're really asking for permission to enter is the National Guard or state trooper who is guarding the road. It's not like the news guys are calling the state government and asking for permission to film in New Orleans. News doesn't work like movies. If the news van can get in there, and no one is in their face telling them to leave, they can do the story. They don't get or expect any assistance, food, lodging, protection, etc. The news team realizes that they are there at their own risk, and they take that on.

If you and I hopped in our car and went up there, we're not self-sufficient. We need a place to stay, someone to direct us as to what to do, food to eat, water to drink, a relative guarantee of safety. Unless we're part of a planned relief effort, letting us into the city just means that there's more people to keep an eye on. We become just another batch of people in need of services. That's the difference.

:earsboy:
I am not challenging you, but I do find this hard to believe. Do you know this as hard fact?

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

It's interesting to see how people feel about Michael Moore.
I used to really like MM. I have his TV series from Bravo on DVD. I think the bigger he got the more he became interested in self-promotion and less interested in actually helping the little man. This open letter is pretty typical of the problems that I have with him these days. I am pretty upset of the handling of NO. I don't have a problem with him writing a letter to Bush. I think this is more to make Bush look bad and maybe to be used in another movie or something, because I don't think this is the kind of letter that you worry about punch-lines quite so much.

[Aneille]

I thought it was funny.

I don't always agree with MM, I didn't even see his last movie because I didn't see the point but I am sure it was good.

But you got to admit as someone else said he's a talented "pot-stirrer". And an "extremist" that only shows one side as another posted, but he's not the only one that does this. He sometimes scares me because he's so good and very influential with is writing and movies, but doesn't mean I still can't enjoy it.

He voiced something that many are thinking and he did it with humour thats what I love about it.

Criticize him all you want for his views but his lack of effort in trying to help and bring in donations as some have pointed out isn't the problem. Well unless he's got an army of busses and helicopters filled with supplies that he can send out and organize.

[hugsquared]

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

] :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Stick his finger in a dike...I thought that was Clintons job when he was president

I'm sorry...I'm probably going to get banned from Dis for this but it just struck me as funny.

I'm another one who thinks Micheal Moore is an idiot. But then, I support our President too so I'm sure most will dismiss any comments I make as fodder.

[wvrevy]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Stick his finger in a dike...I thought that was Clintons job when he was president

I'm sorry...I'm probably going to get banned from Dis for this but it just struck me as funny.

I'm another one who thinks Micheal Moore is an idiot. But then, I support our President too so I'm sure most will dismiss any comments I make as fodder.

Considering the class of the first comment, I'm sure we're all just shocked at the last. :rolleyes:

[charlie,nj]

I've been asking myself that question for two days, to be honest with you. If all of those faces we are seeing on television pleading for help were white, would we have responded faster ?

Ask yourself this...How quickly do we respond to humanitiarian crises in Africa as opposed to Europe ?

I don't like the idea that race has played any part in it...but I'm also not naive enough to completely dismiss the idea out of hand, either.


http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0501/gallery.tsunami.children/01.boy.orange.ap.jpg
a non-white tsunami victim

"The White House said the $950 million will include $339 million for reconstruction of infrastructure; $168 million to help victims transition back to their communities; $35 million for early-warning and disaster-mitigation efforts; and $62 million to help plan reconstruction activities and cover the costs of U.S. agencies in the region. "


MM is an dope! Is he trying to start a race war?


.

[lenshanem]

Michael Moore really bugs me, but this letter is dead on.

[nuke]

4 pages till we got a CLinton comment. :rolleyes:

[hugsquared]

Considering the class of the first comment, I'm sure we're all just shocked at the last. :rolleyes:
I'm rubber, you're glue. :rotfl2:
Look, I'm trying to find a little something to laugh at. Haven't had much of that lately. But I couldn't really care less what you think. I never see anything in your posts except drivel about your distaste for our President and our Government. I really don't like anything you have to say so I really don't give a fat baby's behind if you like what I say.
In fact, I'm so sick of the bashing and self rightous attitude of most that I'm gonna go do something fun with my family and forget all about you and your pages upon pages of rude (my opinion), inflammatory remarks because I think you thrive on stirring the pot as much as MM does and I refuse to give you the spoon to stir with. TaaTaa.

[Minnie824]

Its funny how alot of people 'support our president' no matter what he does. But if Clinton was in charge now, would everyone feel the same? Would people be standing by their president? Everyone would be criticizing him. Michael Moore states facts. They may be things people don't want to hear, but still. I think it was an excellent letter.

[Chicago526]

The only thing in the letter I disagree with is Bush not going to the region. His presense wouldn't have helped and most likely he just would have been in the way (with all the SS, WH personel, and press). He did the right thing by NOT going to the area.

But everything else? Spot on!

[leamarie]

I am plain tired of the knee-jerk reaction to anything President Bush does or does not do. It seems a number of you are predisposed to disagree with everything tied (or you think is tied) to President Bush.

The hurricane occurred just four days ago. In this time, the local, state, and federal governments have been trying to deal with the biggest natural disaster to have ever struck our country. Those in charge are dealing with a constant barrage of information dealing with coordinating efforts to save those still stranded, to save those who have found their way out of their homes to other areas from where they need rescued (Superdome, etc.), to feed and provide water to thousands of individuals, to transport them, to take care of employees who are there, to insure the lives of those in hospitals and nursing homes are protected, to protect areas from looting and violence related to looting, (all complicated by no infrastructure and flooding), and then dealing with the constant arm-chair quarterbacking from people who are sitting in their air-conditioned living rooms with a cool drink in their hands and a full stomach.

When Bill Clinton was president of the United States, I trusted he was more knowledgeable than I, that he was guided by honesty and a sense of purpose, and I trusted him to act with decency in situations of crisis. I do the same with President George Bush. He is president of the United States. Give him some credence and respect. And at least for now trust that he, who has more facts than any of us on this website, is doing what he can. We can call our government and encourage them. We can give money. We must pray. Leave the griping, whining, and criticizing until we have saved who we can and the facts are in.

By the way, the assertion that President Bush diverted levee funds to Iraq is based on pure hatred. Any facts President Bush vetoed a congressional bill to send money to New Orleans for building a levee? Any facts he was even ever asked his opinion. Your predisposition shows and your opinion cannot be trusted.

[JoeEpcotRocks]

yes hindsight is 20/20. Too bad W doesn't watch the Discovery Channel or read Time Magazine. He would have known 5 years ago what could happen to NO. I know I have known for years that huge storm could wipe it out and I'm don't ever really NEED to know that information.
Too Bad W diverted the Levee funds to Iraq. Too Bad W sent the NATIONAL (as in our country) GUARD (as in protect) to IRAQ(not our country).

Hindsight sure is 20/20.

5 years??? Much more than that. Let's see -- build a large city below sea level, next to the Mississippi and Gulf of Mexico -- and just for fun in a Hurricane zone. Oh, but we'll build some levees that can only handle a Cat. 3. And now it's all President Bush's fault when this decades-old roll of the dice comes up snake-eyes

AND per your post - America first I guess -- no need to help foreigners? Keep the national guard here behind glass just in case?

[poohandwendy]

The very last opinion that has any validity at this time of natural disaster and personal suffering is Micheal Moores, give me a flippin break.

[charlie,nj]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.katfri23.jpg
Bush kisses a Biloxi storm victim;
aid arrives at the New Orleans convention center.




Hey Mike get your *** out of your multi-million dollar house(s)... go down south and give the Katrina victims a hug instead of running your.. (yes it’s coming)… your BIG FAT mouth!!!



.

[WebmasterAlex]

Really ? And what, exactly, do you disagree with in that letter? Which fact are you disputing ?

Well where to begin? The use of 5 days is not factual and is inflamatory. On monday everyone thought NO had dodged a bullet. It wasn't untill Tuesday morning that the extent of the disaster became clear.
"How come they weren't there to begin with"
Well 2 really good reasons. We never call up the national guard in case there MIGHT be a disaster and second why the heck would you put the rescuers in the path of the disaster!
Bush did offer to go to the disaster area earlier in the week and it was specifically requested that he did not because of the disruptions that would cause.
Facts? There aren't any in his letter

[Free4Life11]

Michael Moore really bugs me, but this letter is dead on.

I agree. You know, I think I've been "agreeing" with a lot of your posts lately. We must think on the same wavelength...

[JoeEpcotRocks]

The very last opinion that has any validity at this time of natural disaster and personal suffering is Micheal Moores, give me a flippin break.

Agreed!

Maybe Mike will use the people's suffering in NO to put out another half-cocked phony movie documentary -- and make more millions for himself. :sad2:

[nuke]

He is president of the United States. Give him some credence and respect. We must pray. Leave the griping, whining, and criticizing until we have saved who we can and the facts are in.

By the way, the assertion that President Bush diverted levee funds to Iraq is based on pure hatred. Any facts President Bush vetoed a congressional bill to send money to New Orleans for building a levee? Any facts he was even ever asked his opinion. Your predisposition shows and your opinion cannot be trusted.

Respect is earned. Bush has done nothing but earn my distaste.

"In 2001, the New Orleans district spent $147 million on construction projects. When fiscal year 2005 wraps up Sept. 30, the Corps expects to have spent $82 million, a 44.2 percent reduction from 2001 expenditures."

"The Cost of War calculator is set to reach $204.6 billion at the end of fiscal year 2005"

Where do you think the money went? It doesn't take a brain surgeon to put 2 and 2 together.

[poohandwendy]

Searched his website for links to ANYTHING that could point to a constructive way to help the hurricane victims....I found NOTHING. It has been 5 days and he can't even put a Red Cross donation link on his freakin website? Sheesh. Many posters here have done at least that.

[Minnie824]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.katfri23.jpg
Bush kisses a Biloxi storm victim;
aid arrives at the New Orleans convention center.




Hey Mike get your *** out of your multi-million dollar house(s)... go down south and give the Katrina victims a hug instead of running your.. (yes it’s coming)… your BIG FAT mouth!!!



.


Did he bring food and water with him? Honestly I don't know, haven't had time to watch, but did he?

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

Its funny how alot of people 'support our president' no matter what he does. But if Clinton was in charge now, would everyone feel the same? Would people be standing by their president? Everyone would be criticizing him. Michael Moore states facts. They may be things people don't want to hear, but still. I think it was an excellent letter.
The Democrats would support Clinton, and the Republicans would criticize him for the most part. Just the opposite with Bush. If you asked someone in congress what color the sky were, it would prob. depend on which party had power at the time. I've voted for about as many Democrats as Republicans. I never went for a party line. If I had the opportunity to shake the hands of Carter, Bush I, Clinton, or Bush II, I would be thrilled to do it, though, because while I don't always agree with their decisions, and have the right to express my opinions on them, I have a certain respect for the office, and the people who have held it.

[LauraR]

Personally, I can't stand Michael Moore, but I tend to agree with this letter.

[Minnie824]

Agreed!

Maybe Mike will use the people's suffering in NO to put out another half-cocked phony movie documentary -- and make more millions for himself. :sad2:


By 'phony' documentary, do you mean what he put together for 9/11 showing factual video tapes and new clips, and other factual items?

[TeresaNJ]

I am plain tired of the knee-jerk reaction to anything President Bush does or does not do. It seems a number of you are predisposed to disagree with everything tied (or you think is tied) to President Bush.

The hurricane occurred just four days ago. In this time, the local, state, and federal governments have been trying to deal with the biggest natural disaster to have ever struck our country. Those in charge are dealing with a constant barrage of information dealing with coordinating efforts to save those still stranded, to save those who have found their way out of their homes to other areas from where they need rescued (Superdome, etc.), to feed and provide water to thousands of individuals, to transport them, to take care of employees who are there, to insure the lives of those in hospitals and nursing homes are protected, to protect areas from looting and violence related to looting, (all complicated by no infrastructure and flooding), and then dealing with the constant arm-chair quarterbacking from people who are sitting in their air-conditioned living rooms with a cool drink in their hands and a full stomach.

When Bill Clinton was president of the United States, I trusted he was more knowledgeable than I, that he was guided by honesty and a sense of purpose, and I trusted him to act with decency in situations of crisis. I do the same with President George Bush. He is president of the United States. Give him some credence and respect. And at least for now trust that he, who has more facts than any of us on this website, is doing what he can. We can call our government and encourage them. We can give money. We must pray. Leave the griping, whining, and criticizing until we have saved who we can and the facts are in.

By the way, the assertion that President Bush diverted levee funds to Iraq is based on pure hatred. Any facts President Bush vetoed a congressional bill to send money to New Orleans for building a levee? Any facts he was even ever asked his opinion. Your predisposition shows and your opinion cannot be trusted.

I completely agree with your post. An actual voice of reason.

[JoeEpcotRocks]

By 'phony' documentary, do you mean what he put together for 9/11 showing factual video tapes and new clips, and other factual items?

Anyone can SNIP together footage. Context and editing are everything.

"Farenheit 911" and "Bowling for Columbine" are phony propaganda movies, disguised as "documentaries."

[leamarie]

I'm sorry that you cannot see ONE good thing President Bush has done in the years of his presidency.

I'll admit I have little facts. But what evidence do you have other than evidence that money went to Iraq and New Orleans got less money to support your statements? There is still no evidence the war had anything to do with Louisiana getting less money. How long have the levees been around? How long have they needed repair or additional support? It seems longer than President Bush's tenure.

Say you don't support the war. But don't use the war as a reason for the disastrous situation that is in New Orleans right now without facts--real facts to support the conclusion not some circumstantial facts that cannot be linked to gether.

[charlie,nj]

Did he bring food and water with him? Honestly I don't know, haven't had time to watch, but did he?

Yes… as a matter of fact he did!!!

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/vert.schoolbuses.01.pool.jpg
Long lines of school buses and military vehicles drive into downtown New Orleans on Friday.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/vert.convoy.01.pool.jpg
A military vehicle carries relief supplies Friday to evacuaees at a New Orleans convention center



.

[LoraJ]

Its funny how alot of people 'support our president' no matter what he does. But if Clinton was in charge now, would everyone feel the same? Would people be standing by their president? Everyone would be criticizing him. Michael Moore states facts. They may be things people don't want to hear, but still. I think it was an excellent letter.


if this were Clinton and he was not being an affective leader you better belive I would be criticizing it. And you know the "suppor the president" republicans would be too.

[wvrevy]

Ok, let's take these one at a time, then:
Well where to begin? The use of 5 days is not factual and is inflamatory. On monday everyone thought NO had dodged a bullet. It wasn't untill Tuesday morning that the extent of the disaster became clear.
Ok, but the problem is, we knew that the storm was going to be severe, and that it was headed to the New Orleans area. So, why weren't preperations in place already for what to do if the levees broke, as had been predicted? Yes, after Sunday, the levees breaking came as a surprise. But before that, everyone knew it was a possibility. So why weren't plans already in place ?
"How come they weren't there to begin with"
Well 2 really good reasons. We never call up the national guard in case there MIGHT be a disaster and second why the heck would you put the rescuers in the path of the disaster!
For one thing, we knew there was going to be a major disaster. We just didn't know exactly where. So, why not call up the guard starting on Thursday, when we knew how bad it was going to be and that it was heading into the gulf coast states ? Just station them away from the really dangerous areas...shoot, set up tents over the Tennesse border and put 'em there for two days. But this hurricane did NOT spring up overnight. We have flooding all the time in the southern counties of our state, and it never takes the national guard 4 days to get there...and if you've ever driven the backroads of WV, you'll know that is really saying something.
Bush did offer to go to the disaster area earlier in the week and it was specifically requested that he did not because of the disruptions that would cause.
Facts? There aren't any in his letter
Exactly how much disturbance does flying over the area in a helicopter cause, Alex ? It should have been well evident by Tuesday that the local and state governments were completely overwhelmed by what is going on...so why hasn't he stepped up to be the leader that everybody says he is ? Were we supposed to be impressed by him looking pensievely out the window of Air Force 1 as they flew by at 250mph ?

I don't think anyone is saying that mistakes weren't made all around, from the local police and mayor on up the chain. But there has been a definite void of leadership during this entire crisis, and I've seen absolutely nothing from Bush that indicates he was doing something to fill that void.

[ilovepcot]

One thing MM failed to point out: One of the main reasons refugees weren't able to get MRE's was because they had been given to the Iraqui people! This little tidbit was provided by a FEMA worker.

[BostonTigger]

I thought that was the president's job.

How about providing transportation to the poor PRIOR to the hurricane so that so many people wouldn't be left stranded? Seems like nobody cared enough.

You're right, The Gov. should have mobilized the National Guard earlier and this wouldn't have happened. Everyone knew that this was a large storm, and that N.O. was in it's path.

[nuke]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N01279059.htm

Here's a good one.

http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=24745

[Lisa loves Pooh]

So why weren't plans already in place ?



New Orleans news is reporting that they did have plans in place. They just didn't get executed properly.

May have been great plans--or not the best laid plans...but if you don't execute them...they are useless plans.

Once the aftermath is sorted out---I would LOVE to know what the plans were that "broke" just like the levees and brought this to day 5 as we watch people die on television.

I'm thrilled for the convoys--but easily they could have been brought in on Wednesday or Thursday. They KNEW that it would take AT LEAST 48 hours to evacuate people if not more. With that long--common sense prevails that people are going to need food and water while they are waiting for their ride.

[WaltD4Me]

How about providing transportation to the poor PRIOR to the hurricane so that so many people wouldn't be left stranded? Seems like nobody cared enough.

This is an EXCELLENT point and not one that can be blamed on Bush in my opinion.

I see Michael Moore is very quick to jump on Bush, but does not mention at all the Mayor of NO or Governor of LA. THEY were the ones who I believe could have done alot to alleviate what is now going on. NO is their city, in their state. They dropped the ball in the very beginning of this and now Bush is going to take the blame, even though had they reacted as leaders from the start, many of the issues and problems they are having now would not even be occuring.

Has the response been slow? Yes, it definitely has been, I myself cannot imagine why at the very least they have not been able to get food and water in. -- Yes, I KNOW cooridinating food and water drops takes time, however, it has taken too much time....especially when you compare it to how quickly aid was delivered in the tsunami situation.

It is amazing to me that ANYONE believes the reason these people aren't being helped is because they are black. I mean seriously.....do you really think the goverment or fema or the red cross was sitting around saying "Ah, well it's mostly black people, they can wait. Let's take our time." Please.

Are they poorly organzied? Are they at a loss for what to do? Is/has there been poor planning? Are they mostly clueless as to what to do? YES, YES and YES...critize for that if you must, but pulling out the race card is absolutely ridculous and MM knows it. And using it now....inflaming an already volatile situation makes him no better than the violent looters themselves.

[Mai Ku Tiki]

" Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days?"

Do you honestly think race has anything to do with it???

again IDIOT but a talented pot stirrer

Yep! Sorry, but I do believe race (and class) has everything to do with this...Would our FEDERAL GOVT really have tolerated the population of KENNEBUNKPORT being forced to live and die like animals for five days?

With all of my heart, I just don't think so!

~Rose~

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I do not fault the mayor for lack of advance evacuations. How in the world do you move 100,000 people who cannot move themselves. It took them HOURS to move 10,000 people just to the Superdome.

People were thoroughly complacent in New Orleans--b/c of that complacency--they switched from Voluntary to Mandatory evacuations.

I am not good at quanitative guestimation--so work with me here--how long and how much transportation is required to move that many people?



(Just on the news--airlines are sending planes to evacuate people!).

[bubie2.5]

Your wrong, that should be capitol IDIOT
At least he knows how to write.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yep! Sorry, but I do believe race (and class) has everything to do with this...Would our FEDERAL GOVT really have tolerated the population of KENNEBUNKPORT being forced to live and die like animals for five days?

With all of my heart, I just don't think so!

~Rose~


I agree--if this was Orlando or any where else that was wiped out--where the majority of the population isn't black...it would not have taken this long to get a clue.

But that is neither here nor there.

I am more concerned--watching the video made me CRY! Maybe b/c I am a mother--but babies....BABIES!!! I don't care if they are polka dotted--it seemed pretty heartless to not realize that the most innocent of innocent victims---cannot last as long as a larger child or as an adult without needed supplies.

[Mickey's Monkey]

yes hindsight is 20/20. Too bad W doesn't watch the Discovery Channel or read Time Magazine. He would have known 5 years ago what could happen to NO. I know I have known for years that huge storm could wipe it out and I'm don't ever really NEED to know that information.
Too Bad W diverted the Levee funds to Iraq. Too Bad W sent the NATIONAL (as in our country) GUARD (as in protect) to IRAQ(not our country).

Hindsight sure is 20/20.

Another knee-jerk, uninformed post. Not ALL the National Guard is in Iraq. Also, it is noNot his job to try to determin what every state needs. Blame the Senators and Congressmen for not asking for and fighting for the funds they needed. Have you done ANY research whatsoever on the levee issue? If so you would know that they were only budgeted to reinforce the current levee. It would not have strenghtend it to handle anything more than a Cat3. The plan to upgrade it to a level 5 would not even have been completed unitl 2008.., and that was just the STUDY to do so.
Try again.

[Mickey's Monkey]

I agree--if this was Orlando or any where else that was wiped out--where the majority of the population isn't black...it would not have taken this long to get a clue.

But that is neither here nor there.

I am more concerned--watching the video made me CRY! Maybe b/c I am a mother--but babies....BABIES!!! I don't care if they are polka dotted--it seemed pretty heartless to not realize that the most innocent of innocent victims---cannot last as long as a larger child or as an adult without needed supplies.

Probably because the mayor and governor of those respective areas are more competent than those in N.O. and La.

[Mai Ku Tiki]

I do not fault the mayor for lack of advance evacuations. How in the world do you move 100,000 people who cannot move themselves. It took them HOURS to move 10,000 people just to the Superdome.

People were thoroughly complacent in New Orleans--b/c of that complacency--they switched from Voluntary to Mandatory evacuations.

I am not good at quanitative guestimation--so work with me here--how long and how much transportation is required to move that many people?



(Just on the news--airlines are sending planes to evacuate people!).

That's why we (that's you & me) have spent $22 BILLION to fund the DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY...so that when catastrophy strikes...no matter WHO is at fault...and a city or state is overwhelmed,...the NATION and FEDERAL GOVERNMENT will be able to respond. We've had since 9-11-01 to get our act together...have we REALLY made $22 BILLION worth of progress?

If the horror of 9-11 had included radioactivity released by a dirty bomb (NUKE!), even Mayor Juliani and Gov. Pataki would have needed immediate Federal help! That's why we are the UNITED STATES of America!

[jscharf]

What a great letter. :cool1:

[RickinNYC]

I'm not a MM fan but he hit it right on this one.

I totally agree. Even if I happen to be a liberal Dem., I personally think Moore is a PR nightmare and a basic ***. Yet he raises exactly what I've been wondering myself. Great letter.

Edited to add: OOPS! Sorry guys! Didn't know the expletive I used was a banned one!

[Lebjwb]

OK ... good for next time, but how does that help get stuff to those folks now? I believe that was the question.

Remember that "we" are not getting every Tom, Dick and Harry reporter in there. The networks are doing that. And it's a heck of a lot easier to move a handful of reporters INTO an area like this than it is to move thousands of people out. Especially since the networks are designed for this -- to gather news in extreme situations. But, again, it's only a handful of people. Even if you're only talking about getting "the dying babies" out, how do you determine which babies get to go? and where? and who goes with them? and what do you say to the not-dying babies you have to leave behind?

I agree that there should have been a better plan for this, but I think that the mayor of New Orleans is adding to the problem. Where is his plan? His leadership? He seems to have no leadership skills at all, and instead is spending his time on the TV and radio, yelling at other people for not doing anything. I haven't seen him walking the streets of his own city, and yet Harry Connick Jr is there. Go figure.

:earsboy:

The most powerful country on the planet couldn't even airlift 1 porta-potty to the citizens of NO for 5 days.

If buses were able to leave NO...and they did...then supplies could have been brought in as well.

The country needed a president in a time of crisis, we barely even saw his face. That's the bottomline...the man is a failure. %59 of the country agrees with me.

Homeland Security doesn't exsist...another Bu$h lie rears it's ugly head.

Bu$h should open up all those military bases he's planning to close and house these citizens that are in need.

[MeetingMickeyin2006]

Micheal Moore is an idiot and anything he says or does means absolutely nothing in my book.

[WaltD4Me]

Probably because the mayor and governor of those respective areas are more competent than those in N.O. and La.

Agreed!

They were talking about Diane Feinstein on the radio today. She was the mayor of San Franciso. When experts told her if an earthquake hit while Candlestick stadium was full that 20,000 people would be dead. She told them to fix it. They told her fire stations were inadequate in the marina area to handle fires that would occur during a massive earthquake. She said fix it.

When that earthquake did hit, many, many thousands of lives were saved because she had been proactive, because she had heeded warnings, because she had listened to expert advice, because she had been warned of what would happen and then actually had a plan in place for it.

Sadly, the mayor of N.O. can claim no such thing. I think he bears alot of responsiblity in this.

[BostonTigger]

I do not fault the mayor for lack of advance evacuations. How in the world do you move 100,000 people who cannot move themselves. It took them HOURS to move 10,000 people just to the Superdome.

People were thoroughly complacent in New Orleans--b/c of that complacency--they switched from Voluntary to Mandatory evacuations.

I am not good at quanitative guestimation--so work with me here--how long and how much transportation is required to move that many people?



(Just on the news--airlines are sending planes to evacuate people!).

They news media was predicting 72 hours to evacuate the city. The Mayor, Gov. and the rest of the U.S. knew the storm was heading straight for N.O.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

They news media was predicting 72 hours to evacuate the city. The Mayor, Gov. and the rest of the U.S. knew the storm was heading straight for N.O.

I do not need an explanation of disaster relief or hurricanes--been through 3, I know how it works!---I need a MATH explanation of how it is feasible to move this many people....I've been through disasters--I know how it all works. I'm talking...with 72 hours notice...how do you MOVE that many people. It took 12 hours--to move 10,000 to the Superdome with the busses provided.....and that was in the same city. Moving all these people out to a far distance away...would take much much longer.

[mickeyfan2]

Michael Moore is an idiot. :goodvibes

So true.

Moron Micheal Moore,
Get off your fat A## and help.

[Mai Ku Tiki]

So true.

Moron Micheal Moore,
Get off your fat A## and help.

Not a very convincing arguement for anything...but for the record...he HAS tried to help...but working VERY HARD to defeat Pres. Bush in the last election!

[swilphil]

Michael Moore or not, there is no reason why days later people are still dying, starving, suffering, etc. This is the United States of America, not some third world country.

And that is the point.

[mickman1962]

People who don't know how to spell capitAl calling other people idiots? This is really funny :rotfl2:
It's no wonder you like Bush :teeth:
And BTW it's 'You're' not 'Your' in that case.

But back to topic: MM is 100% on target!!!

OK my grammer (oops grammar) was wrong, Im (oops again I'm) sure if I went over your 4000+posts Id (damn I'd) find nothing incorrect. As is typical with people who feel the need to respond to a comment with something totally unrelated in an effort to show how smart they think they are, show me exactly were it said I like Bush in this post or any other post I've made?? Didn't think so. (oops poor sentence structure)

Have a nice day.

[mickeyfan2]

It just seems that given the history of these areas, they should have been better prepared for a worse case scenario.

Actually the real thing that should have been done is to have moved the city when Betsy hit in 1965. That was the ONLY thing that could have been done to prevent this. But will we learn!?!? NO, we will build again and this will happen again and there will be an uproar again.

[CRSNDSNY]

This is an EXCELLENT point and not one that can be blamed on Bush in my opinion.
I'm definitely not placing all blame on Bush. There are many people who dropped the ball on this one.

[WebmasterAlex]

Ok, let's take these one at a time, then:

Ok, but the problem is, we knew that the storm was going to be severe, and that it was headed to the New Orleans area. So, why weren't preperations in place already for what to do if the levees broke, as had been predicted? Yes, after Sunday, the levees breaking came as a surprise. But before that, everyone knew it was a possibility. So why weren't plans already in place ?

For one thing, we knew there was going to be a major disaster. We just didn't know exactly where. So, why not call up the guard starting on Thursday, when we knew how bad it was going to be and that it was heading into the gulf coast states ? Just station them away from the really dangerous areas...shoot, set up tents over the Tennesse border and put 'em there for two days. But this hurricane did NOT spring up overnight. We have flooding all the time in the southern counties of our state, and it never takes the national guard 4 days to get there...and if you've ever driven the backroads of WV, you'll know that is really saying something..

So you are saying every time there is the POTENTIAL for a crisis, we should call up the national guard? Very soon there will be no national guard.
You are also blaming the wrong person. The governor of Louisiana is in charge of the Louisiana National guard and has the full authority to call them up. SHE should have called them up on Thursday if she felt it was going to be neccesary instead of whining about it now.

Exactly how much disturbance does flying over the area in a helicopter cause, Alex ? It should have been well evident by Tuesday that the local and state governments were completely overwhelmed by what is going on...so why hasn't he stepped up to be the leader that everybody says he is ? Were we supposed to be impressed by him looking pensievely out the window of Air Force 1 as they flew by at 250mph ?.

And flying over in a helicopter would have meant landing at an airport which would have involved more security, not to mention tying up a badly needed helicopter which is why the governor specifically asked him not to do it.


I don't think anyone is saying that mistakes weren't made all around, from the local police and mayor on up the chain. But there has been a definite void of leadership during this entire crisis, and I've seen absolutely nothing from Bush that indicates he was doing something to fill that void.

Always remember the biggest mistake of all, the largest idiot in this whole affair is a guy named Beinville who way back in 1787 or something like that ordered his military engineer to build New Orleans even though the engineer told him it was a bad idea.

[mickeyfan2]

And unfortunately, there will be a next time. You'd think they would have learned this already after what happened in '69.

And Betsy in 1965.

[CRSNDSNY]

And Betsy in 1965.
Thank you for correcting me. :goodvibes

[mickeyfan2]

yes hindsight is 20/20. Too bad W doesn't watch the Discovery Channel or read Time Magazine. He would have known 5 years ago what could happen to NO. I know I have known for years that huge storm could wipe it out and I'm don't ever really NEED to know that information.
Too Bad W diverted the Levee funds to Iraq. Too Bad W sent the NATIONAL (as in our country) GUARD (as in protect) to IRAQ(not our country).

Hindsight sure is 20/20.

Too bad nobody knew until 2000 that a disaster could happen in NOLA. I guess they forgot about Betsy (1965) and Camille (1969). In 1965 they started the levee system. THAT was when the BIGGEST mistake was made.

[CRSNDSNY]

Too bad nobody knew until 2000 that a disaster could happen in NOLA. I guess they forgot about Betsy (1965) and Camille (1969). In 1965 they started the levee system. THAT was when the BIGGEST mistake was made.
Ahhhh! Ok, after I posted that last comment I thought to myself, "I really thought it was 1969." I was unaware of 1965's hurricane.

Thanks again.

[swilphil]

Agreed!

They were talking about Diane Feinstein on the radio today. She was the mayor of San Franciso. When experts told her if an earthquake hit while Candlestick stadium was full that 20,000 people would be dead. She told them to fix it. They told her fire stations were inadequate in the marina area to handle fires that would occur during a massive earthquake. She said fix it.

When that earthquake did hit, many, many thousands of lives were saved because she had been proactive, because she had heeded warnings, because she had listened to expert advice, because she had been warned of what would happen and then actually had a plan in place for it.

Sadly, the mayor of N.O. can claim no such thing. I think he bears alot of responsiblity in this.

The main problem in New Orleans was the levee that broke. The levee falls under the jurisdiction of the Army Corp of Engineers, part of the FEDERAL government. Granted, the state and local government definitely needed to get their act together, but the federal government has a responsibility also.

[mickeyfan2]

Its funny how alot of people 'support our president' no matter what he does. But if Clinton was in charge now, would everyone feel the same?

Actually yes I would support him and I never voted for him. If I am not mistaken the Gov and Mayor are Dems, but I support them too. Politics is not needed now.

[WebmasterAlex]

1965? They started building Levees in 1718!!! They have been fighting with them ever since. Follow the link below for a history of the whole mess

The levees ARE the responsibility of the local government and here are the people involved

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=901391

[wvrevy]

So you are saying every time there is the POTENTIAL for a crisis, we should call up the national guard? Very soon there will be no national guard.
You are also blaming the wrong person. The governor of Louisiana is in charge of the Louisiana National guard and has the full authority to call them up. SHE should have called them up on Thursday if she felt it was going to be neccesary instead of whining about it now.
And, as I said, nobody is saying that she shouldn't share in the blame for the lack of response. But, again, there is actually no difference in what has happened in New Orleans and a terrorists attack that could have resulted in the same result. Bush has been preaching about how safe he is making the country (see the last election for details), yet the response for this - an event of which we had advance notice - has taken days to get going. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence that a future terrorist attack would be handled any better.
And flying over in a helicopter would have meant landing at an airport which would have involved more security, not to mention tying up a badly needed helicopter which is why the governor specifically asked him not to do it.
And that's fine. But the point is, he can get on the television, let the American people know what is being done, how it is being taken care of, and how the mistakes that have been made are being rectified. He could get out there and be a leader, or he can sit in the background and do nothing. Well, not nothing...he also had a recess appointment he had to take care of.
Always remember the biggest mistake of all, the largest idiot in this whole affair is a guy named Beinville who way back in 1787 or something like that ordered his military engineer to build New Orleans even though the engineer told him it was a bad idea.
True...But there were plenty of opportunities, over the past 30 years or so, to make certain that his mistake wouldn't be fatal to thousands of people that lived in the area.

[Crankyshank]

Not exactly a fan of Mr Moore but I do have to say I definitely agree with his letter.
These poor people have been violated by the government on all levels and by both parties. I'm surprised more people aren't outrage by the absolute lack of forethought and proactive measures. It's not like the needed levee repair was a surprise. It's not like New Orleans never gets hurricanes :confused3

[mickeyfan2]

Ok, but the problem is, we knew that the storm was going to be severe, and that it was headed to the New Orleans area. So, why weren't preperations in place already for what to do if the levees broke, as had been predicted? Yes, after Sunday, the levees breaking came as a surprise. But before that, everyone knew it was a possibility. So why weren't plans already in place ?

Yes, so why stay behind?
How did you plan on making the levee higher in four days when the modern levees took 40 years to build?

For one thing, we knew there was going to be a major disaster. We just didn't know exactly where. So, why not call up the guard starting on Thursday, when we knew how bad it was going to be and that it was heading into the gulf coast states ? Just station them away from the really dangerous areas...shoot, set up tents over the Tennesse border and put 'em there for two days.

The hurricane could have changed course and hit Texas instead and the tent city would be useless.

[swilphil]

I do not need an explanation of disaster relief or hurricanes--been through 3, I know how it works!---I need a MATH explanation of how it is feasible to move this many people....I've been through disasters--I know how it all works. I'm talking...with 72 hours notice...how do you MOVE that many people. It took 12 hours--to move 10,000 to the Superdome with the busses provided.....and that was in the same city. Moving all these people out to a far distance away...would take much much longer.

Wouldn't it have been easier to move people BEFORE the hurricane instead of waiting until after? Surely many lives would have been saved. It sounds like Florida has a better plan of action in place. Hopefully other LA will adopt it in the future. Remember, they haven't had a major hurricane in more than 35 years.

[mickeyfan2]

Yep! Sorry, but I do believe race (and class) has everything to do with this...Would our FEDERAL GOVT really have tolerated the population of KENNEBUNKPORT being forced to live and die like animals for five day.

No, but the residents of Kennebunkport would have left and would not need to be evacuated.

I keep hearing that the poor could not leave, but there seems to be alot of cars in the poor and flooded areas. Who owned them? In the town that I live in we have poor people who rent rundown trailers and they do have cars. If we were fleeing and I met one of these people who could not flee because they did not have gas for their car, I would have bought it for them. If I saw a white or non-white person walking along a evacuation route and I have room in my car I would pick them up.

[mickeyfan2]

I am not good at quanitative guestimation--so work with me here--how long and how much transportation is required to move that many people?.

A bus can seat about 50, so 10,000/50 = 200 buses. But the 10,000 were not all in one place but all over the city. You would need to do house to house searches to make sure you got everybody. That would take way to long.

[swilphil]

Not exactly a fan of Mr Moore but I do have to say I definitely agree with his letter.
These poor people have been violated by the government on all levels and by both parties. I'm surprised more people aren't outrage by the absolute lack of forethought and proactive measures. It's not like the needed levee repair was a surprise. It's not like New Orleans never gets hurricanes :confused3

Good points. Michael Moore should stick to documentaries. He actually does that very well. He ends up defeating himself when he attempts other forms of communication though I, too, agree with his letter.

I think in coming weeks we will see more people being outraged by the lack of proactive measures. Even this morning, Katie Couric was questioning the head of FEMA about this matter.

[PixieDust32]

Michael Moore is an idiot. :goodvibes


Yeah!! I agree!!! He had nothing else better to do, so if he's so worry he should get his big butt of the couch and go over there and help! Some people just need a life! NO FLAMES PLZ this is my opinion!

[swilphil]

No, but the residents of Kennebunkport would have left and would not need to be evacuated.

I keep hearing that the poor could not leave, but there seems to be alot of cars in the poor and flooded areas. Who owned them? In the town that I live in we have poor people who rent rundown trailers and they do have cars. If we were fleeing and I met one of these people who could not flee because they did not have gas for their car, I would have bought it for them. If I saw a white or non-white person walking along a evacuation route and I have room in my car I would pick them up.

On the news this morning it was reported that 100,000 people in NO don't own cars. I imagine the cars that you saw were from people who left town with other family members (i.e. our family has 2 cars but we would only take 1 in this situation).

[Mugg Mann]

Anyone can SNIP together footage. Context and editing are everything.
"Farenheit 911" and "Bowling for Columbine" are phony propaganda movies, disguised as "documentaries."

Just like Fox news, don't you think?!?

[mickeyfan2]

Not a very convincing arguement for anything...but for the record...he HAS tried to help...but working VERY HARD to defeat Pres. Bush in the last election!

I wasn't making a arguement I was making a statement.

Boy your arguement was WAY better than mine.

[wvrevy]

Yes, so why stay behind?
How did you plan on making the levee higher in four days when the modern levees took 40 years to build?
Umm...Who said anything about making the levees higher in the days before the storm ? :confused3
The hurricane could have changed course and hit Texas instead and the tent city would be useless.
No, it wouldn't...they would just have had a little further to travel. We knew it was going to be a major storm, regardless of where it hit.

[mickeyfan2]

Thank you for correcting me. :goodvibes

Sorry I did not mean to correct you. It was Betsy that put the modern levee system in motion. There were more before then too. It is just that they keep talking about Betsy and Camille. They were both very bad and happened four years apart.

[mickeyfan2]

1965? They started building Levees in 1718!!!

Yes I know, I was just referring to the modern levee project that started in 1965 and is still being worked on.

[wvrevy]

Yeah!! I agree!!! He had nothing else better to do, so if he's so worry he should get his big butt of the couch and go over there and help! Some people just need a life! NO FLAMES PLZ this is my opinion!

It's amazing that the people on the right can't seem to come up with a better criticism of Moore than he's a big fat fatty. :rolleyes:

[mickeyfan2]

On the news this morning it was reported that 100,000 people in NO don't own cars. I imagine the cars that you saw were from people who left town with other family members (i.e. our family has 2 cars but we would only take 1 in this situation).

Well then I would have stolen it. If they can loot they can jump start a car.

[cats7494]

Not here to debate - but I just read the letter and I completely agree with what Michael Moore has to say.

[mickeyfan2]

Umm...Who said anything about making the levees higher in the days before the storm ?

The levees were breached. Once the levee was breached it failed and the city was flooded. Only a higher levee that was not breached would have possibly prevented the flooding. The levees and pumps were the cities only hope.

[Mugg Mann]

It's amazing that the people on the right can't seem to come up with a better criticism of Moore than he's a big fat fatty. :rolleyes:

Well, since there's no factual basis to argue with......they gotta stick with whatever they can.

One of the biggest complaints against the present administration is how any messenger bringing factual comments to the attention of the American people which run counter to their aims and goals is smeared beyond belief by all propaganda sources available to the administration. When the news is bad, the goal is to discredit the messenger. Michael Moore is just an example. Again, what was factually inaccurate in that letter?

[KristenCheeks]

I agree. Saw Connick on ABC this morning.

It just seems that given the history of these areas, they should have been better prepared for a worse case scenario. The mayor should have known better. He knows what percentage of his population is living in poverty. What choice did they really have? None. Ride it out.

But is easy for me to say, "shoulda, coulda, woulda" -- on the outside looking in.

I don't know if anyone's posted this yet, but the mayor *did* know better and so did most of those in leadership in New Orleans and Louisiana. This is why they have been asking for federal aid for *years* to strengthen the levees so that they could withstand a category 5 hurricane. The federal government refused to assist in the strengthening of those levees, which would have prevented the degree of this disaster. When you're consistently refused help when trying to plan prevention, you can't do much of anything.

I think it's absolutely silly to deny that race is an issue. It's obviously an issue. Wake up.

Michael Moore is certainly prone to hyperbole, but he's saying all the right things here.

I just don't understand why he didn't bring up how our federal government has *refused* aid from over 20 foreign countries. *WHY?* We've certainly had the resources to help other countries in such situations. It is petulant and ridiculous of us not to accept the kindness of others who merely want to help. Our country is pressed to its limits -- our military is fighting a war in Iraq, our people can barely afford gas to get to a Red Cross to donate money, blood, and goods.... Why should we say no to someone who just wants to help?



EDIT: I just read that *everyone* has been talking about the levees and how federal assistance to strengthen them was turned down. I apologize for the repetition.

[wvrevy]

The levees were breached. Once the levee was breached it failed and the city was flooded. Only a higher levee that was not breached would have possibly prevented the flooding. The levees and pumps were the cities only hope.
I'm not really sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China, but...okee-dokey. :confused3

I haven't seen anybody blaming Bush for the levees not being bigger. :confused3 Yes, he did cut money for maintenance, but that wouldn't have made them any bigger, and isn't really something I've been discussing anyway, so I'm not sure what your point is.

[mickeyfan2]

I'm not really sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China, but...okee-dokey. :confused3

I haven't seen anybody blaming Bush for the levees not being bigger. :confused3 Yes, he did cut money for maintenance, but that wouldn't have made them any bigger, and isn't really something I've been discussing anyway, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Boy you are confused. They keep complaining that the money to make the levees to withstand a Cat 5 was sent to Iraq instead. The way to make them hold in a Cat 5 was to make them higher. Also they have sunk about two feet.

[wvrevy]

Boy you are confused. They keep complaining that the money to make the levees to withstand a Cat 5 was sent to Iraq instead. The way to make them hold in a Cat 5 was to make them higher. Also they have sunk about two feet.
Ummm...ok...and people are saying that it should have been done in the days before the storm ? Ummm...can anybody else see these people ? :teeth:

It is a fact, by the way, that Bush cut funding for flood prevention in the New Orleans basin. It is a fact that that funding would have gone towards maintenance on the levees. It's pure speculation on whether that maintenance would have prevented this disaster...and not speculation that I've engaged in.

But all of that was well before Katrina was even a tropical depression off the coast of Africa, let alone a monster bearing down on the gulf, and the biggest problems most of us have with the lack of response have involved issues that have arisen in the last week or so.

[mickeyfan2]

But all of that was well before Katrina was even a tropical depression off the coast of Africa, let alone a monster bearing down on the gulf, and the biggest problems most of us have with the lack of response have involved issues that have arisen in the last week or so.

I'm not going to get into an arguement with you about this.

If the levees had held, then most of the city would not be under water (some still would) and the number of people needing to be rescued from roofs would be less. The Superdome would not have water around it and it would have been easier to get the buses to them etc.

[WaltD4Me]

Not here to debate - but I just read the letter and I completely agree with what Michael Moore has to say.

Whether you agree or not or whether I agree or not, to me isn't the issue.
MM has every right to write his letter and every right to say whatever he pleases in it. The thing I question is the timing of his inflammatory statements and his accusations that help is slow to arrive because most of the victims are black. Things are volatile enough without adding fuel to that fire.

Had MM's letter just been a plea to the President for more, better, faster help and he had saved his accusations for another time, I would think MM's agenda was truly only to help those poor people, but since he did not do that, I chose to believe this is another one of his publicity stunts.

I know how Mr. Moore feels about Bush, but for NOW, this is not a time for division, it is a time for everyone to work together and a letter like Mr. Moore's does not facilitate that and only takes a chance in making things worse.

[lenshanem]

Anyone can SNIP together footage. Context and editing are everything.
"Farenheit 911" and "Bowling for Columbine" are phony propaganda movies, disguised as "documentaries."



Just like Fox news, don't you think?!?

:rotfl2: Their logo? Fair and balanced... I don't think so.

[Mugg Mann]

:rotfl2: Their logo? Fair and balanced... I don't think so.

Fox news is as fair as a NYC street game of three card monte and as balanced as Michael Jackson....

[Virgo10]

I cannot stand MM. Having said that, I agree with about 90% of that letter.

[shortbun]

The letter hits home. The usual suspects are outraged. Good.

[dcentity2000]

Usually I can't stand Michael Moore; I'll read this with interest...



Rich::

[HOGFAN]

Who gives a crap what MM thinks. Least we forget, in the last election the populace REJECTED him and his ilk.

[ByTheSea]

Great letter, (skipped over all the posts following) thanks for posting it.

[shelby_36]

I'll wait for the movie.
What an IDIOT!

[isla bonita]

I love Micheal Moore. Even if you do not agree with him you have to give credit for voicing his opinions even when they differ from the masses.

[shelby_36]

Give him credit ? he is not voicing his opinion. He is making stuff up and repackaging it as fact. He should get a job at Pixar.

[roque]

LOL, that letter was fabulous! I don't personally
like Michael Moore, but that was a great letter.

I agree.

[wvjules]

I wonder what the response to this letter would be if it wasn't posted that it was written by MM? :confused3

I have nothing to add other than that. lol

[Mugg Mann]

Give him credit ? he is not voicing his opinion. He is making stuff up and repackaging it as fact. He should get a job at Pixar.

Please enlighten us. What was factually incorrect in that letter?

[WebmasterAlex]

Mugg Mann, please read the whole thread, we have been over this

[Pete's Mom]

I wonder what the response to this letter would be if it wasn't posted that it was written by MM? :confused3

I have nothing to add other than that. lolWell, it would be <Insert Name> is an idiot. :goodvibes

[lilbitlate]

I found this on a blog, great point! Wish I could take credit!


An angry Terry Ebbert, head of New Orleans' emergency operations, watched the slow exodus from the Superdome on Thursday morning and said the Federal Emergency Management Agency response was inadequate. The chaos at the nearby New Orleans Convention Center was considerably worse than the Superdome, with an angry mob growing increasingly violent and few options for refugees to leave the scene. "This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control," Ebbert said. "We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can't bail out the city of New Orleans."


Ebbert's job is to coordinate New Orleans' response to emergencies. Somebody should show him this picture and tell him to stop blaming everyone but himself:

(sorry, don't know how to up load image)


New Orleans owns those buses. Here's their significance:

I count 205 busses. When I was a kid, I remember that school busses could carry 66 people. If that is still the case, 13,530 people could be carried to safety in ONE trip using only the busses shown in that picture.
One trip.


Houston is 350 miles from New Orleans. At 50 miles per hour, 13,530 people could have reached Houston in seven hours. Turn the buses around. 14 hours later another 13,530 people are in Houston, far away from Katrina's wrath. In a little more than a day's time, you've gotten the poorest people who wanted to leave but couldn't leave on their own out of the city. And you don't have to drive them as far as Houston. It's the closest huge city, but there are lots of smaller towns you could ferry people to more quickly. The shorter the drive, the more trips you can make. Pretty soon 26,000 saved becomes everyone saved. If anyone left behind in the storm survives and then loots, at least they're not endangering thousands of innocent people. Those innocent people aren't there to be endangered. They're somewhere else.

You see, buses have these interesting features on them, Mr. Ebbert, called wheels. They allow buses to move about the streets of a city under the control of a human. Because of their wheels, buses can go to where the people are and offer them a ride. You could tell people to congregate at street corners for easier pickup. Moreover, since the buses are on the road picking up people and moving them out of the city, they're not in the path of the flood when the levee breaks. So you can keep using them to get the few stragglers who managed to survive the storm and the floods. And you can use them to haul in supplies. Troops. Whatever you need.

But since no one mobilized these buses before the storm--ahem, Mr. Ebbert--since no one mobilized them before the storm, the poor in New Orleans had no way of getting out. And now the buses are waterlogged and useless. All 205 of them. They will go on the expense side of the ledger instead of the asset side. That's your fault, Mr. Ebbert. The blame rests with you, sir. You knew the city owned those buses, you knew where to get them, where to fuel them and you probably had a list of the drivers who operate them. Yet there they sit, half submerged.

One emergency manager with half a clue and a couple hundred drivers could have more or less saved New Orleans from turning into Mad Max territory. Terry Ebbert can blame everyone else all he wants, but this crisis is almost entirely his fault.

Now that National Guard and probably true federal troops will be put into New Orleans to quell the violence, and since the city is crawling with journalists and videographers, we're liable to get something on our TVs that will look like a cross between Waco circa 1993 and Tiananmen Square circa 1989. But with the added twist of a racial component. Great.

And it all probably could have been avoided with judicious use of a couple hundred school buses--those inside the frame above as well as the probably dozens of others outside it.

UPDATE: Here's a tight satellite view of the bus lot. It looks to me like there are more than 205 buses there. That's a freeway next to the lot, in the upper part of the frame. It leads to the Superdome in one direction and out of the city in the other.




Here's a link to a wider view, cropped so that the Superdome is in the lower left and the bus lot is in the upper right. They're not that far apart--a mile or two maybe. That view is cropped down from a much larger image, which is here. Fwiw.

I will say this--if the city's emergency planners couldn't figure out that the bus lot, the freeway and the dome make a pretty tight emergency staging and evacuation system all by themselves, those planners are beyond incompetent. Ebbert and his staff should be held accountable for this to the nth degree.

[What the Heck]

Please enlighten us. What was factually incorrect in that letter?
First paragraph implies there are no helicopters there. If thats the case, then who has been making all of the rescues by air, kite flyers?

Second paragraph implies there are no National Guard troops to send. I must have dreamed the convoy arriving today.

Third paragraph says that the weather forecasters had forcast the hurricane to arrive in New Orleans on Thursday. Funny, the ones I saw on TV on Thursday said it was going to hit the Florida panhandle Sunday afternoon as a Cat 3.

Fourth paragraph, he went to SD for a ceremonial issue. According to the elected officials from LA, MS and AL the President had been in contact with them daily. He went to SD because he wasn't asked to come earlier - it was under control by the states.

Fifth paragraph is true and the President will have to answer for it. Also the previoius President should have to answer for it as well. After all, the levee didn't automatically weaken from handling a cat 5 to a cat 3 just because Bush was elected president.

Sixth paragraph implies something that many believe but I believe is false. His job wasn't to be there at that time, his job was to be in Washington to assist the local governments get the things they ask for. It also says he left his vacation home. I guess the entire US is a vacation home for this President.

Seventh paragraph implies that he was the first president faced with this issue. Wow, wasn't it amazing of Mother Nature to wait for this president to ever have a cat 4 or cat 5 hurricane?

Eighth paragraph is wrong in that it wasn't 30% but 25% in poverty. That is just a an incorrect fact. His implication that the lack of relief for New Orleans was because they were black is insulting to every American.

Hope this helps.

[Mickey's Monkey]

Yep! Sorry, but I do believe race (and class) has everything to do with this...Would our FEDERAL GOVT really have tolerated the population of KENNEBUNKPORT being forced to live and die like animals for five days?

With all of my heart, I just don't think so!

~Rose~

Is this a race problem?

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/weather/hurricane/sfl-mayocol13aug13,0,1574354.column?coll=sfla-news-hurricane

the residents of Punta Gorda are primarily white. Doing a search on this board it seems that some that were in the middle of this disaster were disatisfied with the speed of the repsonse and how long they'd waited for their FEMA checks. Was that a race issue? If so, how? Why? If not, why not?

[C.Ann]

I don't approve of this letter at all.. I don't find it humorous.. I haven't felt a heck of a lot like laughing since Monday..

However, I DO approve of writing an intelligent letter to the President voicing your displeasure and disappointment in his lack of leadership, if you are so inclined..

[Mickey's Monkey]

Fifth paragraph is true and the President will have to answer for it. Also the previoius President should have to answer for it as well. After all, the levee didn't automatically weaken from handling a cat 5 to a cat 3 just because Bush was elected president.

This is still a lame argument at best. Even if there was the money, the levee likely would not have been upgraded in time to handle Katrina

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0902_050902_katrina_levees_2.html


Until the day before Katrina's arrival, New Orleans's 350 miles (560 kilometers) of levees were undergoing a feasibility study to examine the possibility of upgrading them to withstand a Category Four or Five storm.

Corps officials say the study, which began in 2000, will take several years to complete.

Upgrading the system would take as long as 20 to 25 years, according to Al Naomi, the Corps' senior project manager for the New Orleans District.

[Mickey's Monkey]

I don't approve of this letter at all.. I don't find it humorous.. I haven't felt a heck of a lot like laughing since Monday..

However, I DO approve of writing an intelligent letter to the President voicing your displeasure and disappointment in his lack of leadership, if you are so inclined..

That would be a waste of time. I hope this teaches everyone not to rely on ANY arm of govt to take care of you.

Now, as for lack of leadership, the people of N.O. and the state of La. were let down by the LACK OF LOCAL LEADERSHIP. Sounds like many people want La (and maybe their own states) to go back to being a territory so they do fall under the control of the Fed govt. If you think the President is responsible, then that would seem to be your best course of action.. go back to being a territory.

[C.Ann]

That would be a waste of time.

----------------------------

Apathy is a waste of time, voicing ones opinion to the person who is supposed to guide this country is not..

However, I agree that I will never rely on the government in the face of a major disaster.. Never..

[totalia]

Actually, I think it was a damned good letter. I know alot of people don't like Michael Moore. I like him. He strips away the crap and gets to the meat of the issue. No playing games or "spinning" the truth.

[NewEnglandDisney]

I thought the letter was spot-on.

It is unthinkable that in 2005, on U.S. soil, that people died on rooftops, days after the hurricane, because no one would rescue them. I think when all is said and done, we will find more people died AFTER the hurricanes than during them. We live in the richest country in the world, one that feels that we must police and invade/protect the rest of the world - and we left people just stranded there in our own country.

I'm sorry, but mothers having to spit in their babies mouths in the convention center because they had no water to give them is something that is not only a tragedy but a national disgrace. Could we not drop a some water in the place we forced people to retreat to? The director of FEMA admitted on Thursday, on live TV, that he knew NOTHING about the convention center or the thousands of people stuck there with no food/water or anything else. DAYS after the flooding.

You may not like Michael Moore, but he isn't the only one saying these things - these truths that anyone who owns a TV has now seen. It may be glib to speculate about at this point, but we can hope that out of this tragedy our nation will come together and reevaluate our priorities - we are spending billions of dollars every week taking over another country and we can't even care for our own - we need telethons and private donations because the money to help these people is being used elsewhere.

N.E.D.

[patiruss]

I have read through the thread and don't even quite know how to say how tired I am of people having to place blame, when in fact none of us has the whole picture. This is not meant to be insulting or even argumentative. Why does someONE have to be to blame? Could it be that we are facing a disaster of a magnitutde beyond our resources. When this is all over, there will be time to analyze what went wrong and how to fix it. I know I'm not very articulate and I wish could express my opinions more clearly. This morning however I read an article in Newsweek that truely says what a lot of us need to hear. I am posting one paragraph and a link to the full article. I know that that the paragraph can be taken out of context, so please take the time to read it fully. In my opinion, the author, Rabbi Marc Gellman is a very wise man.

"However, in the end I simply refuse to blame the rescuers more than the storm that caused the need for rescue. It is not merely naive but profoundly foolish to have expected that 100,000 troops with water and food and patrol vehicles and helicopters and busses and trains and showers and shelters and electricity and bulldozers and levee-repair crews and mobile kitchens and tent cities and psychological services and identity checkers and employment services and construction crews and electrical linemen and mechanical and structural and civil engineers and architects and water-control experts and animal-removal experts could have all been set up somewhere out of the storm path but close enough to swoop in and pluck the soaking victims out of harm’s way despite the collapsed bridges and levees the minute the winds stopped blowing and minute the tide subsided without missing a heartbeat. Where have we gleaned the arrogant belief that if we suffer from a natural disaster, it must always somebody’s fault? We must all face the grim but inescapable fact that there are some times and some places where the need you face is simply greater than the resources you have at that moment or even days after that moment or even weeks after that moment, and thus agonizing decisions must be made. Triage is a way to make those decisions on the allocation of scarce lifesaving resources that does not stop the tears, but at least it stops the feeling that you did not just throw up your hands and give up."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9178815/site/newsweek/

[TnTsParty]

But what Michael Moore says is NOT the truth - he acts like there was NO helicopters or any kind of help there - he acts like NO ONE was there to help. I can look back to Sunday Aug 28 and find this article http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/weather/hurricane/sfl-828superdome,0,6665601.story?coll=sfla-news-hurricane - The National Guard was there then - 2 days before the flooding started - and the Superdome was supposed to be a refuge of LAST resort - I take that to mean if you have absolutely NO WHERE else to go or need physical assistance.

Michael Moore acts like because of Iraq there is no National Guard at ALL in the US - If I was one of the members of the National Guard that is doing what I could to help the people out (even though they were getting shot at) I would feel like what I was doing wasn't appreciated. Is that the right kind of message to send to people who are trying to help in any way they can???? If that is the way they are treated then maybe in the next time of need there won't be anyone willing to help. Its dumb to fight the very people who are trying to help. And if I am not mistaken that is the MAIN reason help didn't get in there sooner. Any wonder why the police are quitting in New Orleans. May have something to do with no local control?

Also Michael Moore is WRONG when he says that on Thursday night the weathermen in South Florida were saying the storm was on its way to New Orleans. According to the Sun-Sentinel on Saturday they were still predicting the storm to make landfall in the Florida Panhandle which has already suffered through Ivan, Dennis and there were other minor storms that affected that area as well. Guess what - the emergency operations in that area were putting emergency operations into effect and taking action locally - which is what New Orleans should have done.

Awful odd that on Aug 30 (Tuesday) this article was in the Sun-Sentinal http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/weather/hurricane/sfl-arescue30aug30,0,7874998.story?coll=sfla-news-hurricane (edited to add - the article talks about how relief efforts were ready and waiting before the storm)

Seems like the help was there people just don't want to see it - and realize there were LOTS of other areas that were hit by Katrina besides New Orleans. Also on TV I saw people in New Orleans as of right now that are refusing to leave even after being told numerous times that its not safe where they are and that they won't be getting any food if they stayed and they are refusing to leave - I am sure that is the Presidents fault as well.

I can't belive this has turned into a political and racial war - it is a natural disaster that has affected all races and political parties!!

[NewEnglandDisney]

Seems like the help was there people just don't want to see it

Yeah, I guess I missed those dying babies and old people getting the food and water they needed before they died in the Superdome.

Can you give me a link to the video? I'd sure like to see that those people got the help they needed and are alive and well. I'd certainly sleep better.

N.E.D.

[mickeyfan2]

A previous mayor, not sure if he was the previous one or not, but his father was also the mayor too (if this helps identify him) said he had the city evacuated for a previous hurricane and the result was:

50% left when told to evacuate
25% went to the superdome etc. as shelters of last resort
25% said they would not leave under any condition.

Thank god that 80% (mayor's estimate) left. This could have been worse.

[snowy76]

Well ... maybe. If you're in a satellite news van with "ABC News" on the side of it, and you carry your own generator and food and water and are self-sufficient and are providing your own protection, the only person you're really asking for permission to enter is the National Guard or state trooper who is guarding the road. It's not like the news guys are calling the state government and asking for permission to film in New Orleans. News doesn't work like movies. If the news van can get in there, and no one is in their face telling them to leave, they can do the story. They don't get or expect any assistance, food, lodging, protection, etc. The news team realizes that they are there at their own risk, and they take that on.

If you and I hopped in our car and went up there, we're not self-sufficient. We need a place to stay, someone to direct us as to what to do, food to eat, water to drink, a relative guarantee of safety. Unless we're part of a planned relief effort, letting us into the city just means that there's more people to keep an eye on. We become just another batch of people in need of services. That's the difference.

:earsboy:WDSearcher is pretty much on the ball with this. I worked in tv and radio news for about ten years and covered some natural disasters during that time. I have a few friends who are in NOLA and Miss right now for the networks as well as local stations. They are, in fact, on their own in situations like this. Getting in there is entirely up to them and how close they're willing to get to the center of it all. I am not willing to take those types of risks, so I left the business. But my DH, who is still in TV, is all about taking those risks.

Our local officials have worked very hard to have response plans for MANY possible situations, including nuclear disaster (we're 35 miles from three nuke plants). But in the beginning days of something like this, even the public officials are stranded, including police (although usually, in a facility close to the event so that they CAN respond appropriately). There is little, if no, security.

My question is (and this also comes from my experience talking with our local disaster response people)... why wasn't the mayor bunkered someplace to see the city through? I haven't heard where he was at the time of the storm. In our community, there is a facility set up where the public officials gather to oversee operations.

Edit: I should have said above that it didn't seem to me that the mayor has really been seeing the city through. Perhaps he was sheletered somewhere but I read earlier that he had evacuated. I just think of Rudy Giuliani after 9/11 and I remember him taking CHARGE. Where is the leadership in LA? They need to step up. I don't think crying and swearing in press conferences is the right arena.

[shelby_36]

I've seen several people make commets that 1000 died of hunger and dehydration. I think the possible thousands that died, died of the natural disaster. the others that have died since the hurricane have died b/c they were frail, in poor health, didn't have medication, I'm sure some may have had heart attacks without medical care. A few it seems died from gunshot wounds but I haven't heard of anyone that died primarily because of lack of food and water.

Edited to say- i do however believe once they start going house to house, those that stayed behind may have died from heat, but most stuck in their house probably had supplies those at the superdome didn't have. I know if I got trapped in my house at this very instant I could live for several weeks from what i have in the pantry etc.

[Thea]

CNN has reported that several babies died at the Superdome. They reported dehydration and lack of formular/babyfood as cause of death. :sad1:

Thea

[Charade]

Michael Moore is an idiot. :goodvibes

::yes::

[totalia]

CNN has reported that several babies died at the Superdome. They reported dehydration and lack of formular/babyfood as cause of death. :sad1:

Thea
I'd love to know how people think THAT is justifiable.

[snappy]

A previous mayor, not sure if he was the previous one or not, but his father was also the mayor too (if this helps identify him) said he had the city evacuated for a previous hurricane and the result was:

50% left when told to evacuate
25% went to the superdome etc. as shelters of last resort
25% said they would not leave under any condition.

Thank god that 80% (mayor's estimate) left. This could have been worse.

I wonder what the percentage was that stayed while the city emptied out so they could break in to residences and businesses to help themselves to whatever they can.


I am sure the looters got a lot of water, food, diapers and formula from the Saks 5th Avenue store that they broke into at One Canal Place and set on fire. Or maybe not.

[bz8bls]

Well then I would have stolen it. If they can loot they can jump start a car.

Mickey that remark is what keep stereotyping alive and well. If you were looting to get the essentials (not speaking of thugs), should I assume you know how to hot wire a car? :earseek:

[MrsNick]

Could it be that the horrifying way that people in New Orleans have been left to fend for themselves is, in fact, a product of class warfare rather than racial warfare per se?

If this had happened in Appalachia, where the infrastructure is also weaker than in some other places, would there be a similar lack of support and evacuation?

Personally, I think this is possible in any city or region with lack of infrastructure and a high proportion of poverty, regardless of race.

[vanessat]

I find it shocking that the government of the country with the most powerful army in the world, with the ability to send overnight assistance to countries half way around the world to assist and rescue victims of natural disasters, would allow victims, including so many children and babies, in its own territory to stay for days with practically no assistance, food, etc. The infrastructure necessary to rapidly provide help on such a wide scale could only come from the US army: large helicopters, cargo planes, anphibian vehicles, manpower for security and repairs, etc. Who is the commander in chief of that army? Surely preventing deaths of the frail and airlifting should be the highest priority of any leader?

[WDWBetsy]

Why is it that when SOME people who don't agree with Michael Moore comment on him, they make pointed comments about his weight (calling him fat, a pig, buffet stuff, etc.).

I'm sorry - that's just rude and insensitive to all those who struggle with their weight.

If you don't agree with him, fine. But please be nice.

EDITED to clarify I wasn't generalizing, but commenting on how some individuals degrade those people with weight problems by resorting to name-calling when they disagree with that person's opinions.

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Actually, I think it was a damned good letter. I know alot of people don't like Michael Moore. I like him. He strips away the crap and gets to the meat of the issue. No playing games or "spinning" the truth.

Must be a different Michael Moore. :rolleyes: The one I know can't spin the truth because he has trouble finding it.

[Mickey's Monkey]

I'd love to know how people think THAT is justifiable.

Few deaths are justifiable. Doesn't always mean you have to point the finger at someone. But if you must, point it at the Mayor of N.O. who sent the people to the Superdome without a plan for how to take care of them.

[What the Heck]

I'd love to know how people think THAT is justifiable.
Perhaps the parents should have brought the food and water they were told. Or the city should have provided it, or the state. Why was it the people had to wait until the federal government got involved for food and water for the children when they were supposed to bring enough to last 5 days? Or is it your claim that the federal government is supposed to take care of everyone?

[What the Heck]

I find it shocking that the government of the country with the most powerful army in the world, with the ability to send overnight assistance to countries half way around the world to assist and rescue victims of natural disasters, would allow victims, including so many children and babies, in its own territory to stay for days with practically no assistance, food, etc. The infrastructure necessary to rapidly provide help on such a wide scale could only come from the US army: large helicopters, cargo planes, anphibian vehicles, manpower for security and repairs, etc. Who is the commander in chief of that army? Surely preventing deaths of the frail and airlifting should be the highest priority of any leader?Please provide source where we sent troops and supplies "overnight"? It takes a few days to get our troops into action. We can't just through them into a situation and have them become as desperate as those they are trying to help. We are talking about a storm that hit less than a week ago. However it's been on our TV for 24 hours a day (I would say 24/7, but it's only been 24/6 since it hit). Also, you do realize that the Coast Guard is a part of our federal government? Who do you think was working inthose helicopters on Monday, Howard Dean?

[WaltD4Me]

The thing about Michael Moore that irritates me, is that he is a citizen just like me and just like you and he has the same rights to say whatever he pleases just like we do, but he absuses his "celebrity" for his own personal agenda.

The Academy Awards were a perfect example. I don't even remember what he said, but the only reason he had that platform is not because he is a scholar or expert on anything, it was because he made a movie and in that setting no one could refute what he said. Why should he have any more audience that the regular guy with the opposing opinion to his?

I once saw Michael Moore on Bill O'Reilly and I really was somewhat impressed by what he had to say. He wasn't just spouting off, he was answering thoughtful questions with thoughtful answers. Maybe I didn't agree, but I respected him alot more than when he uses inappropiate settings to rant and rave.

I also think his complete comtempt for President Bush colors his views. I don't think Bush could have done anything right in the Katrina situation to make Moore happy, even if troops and supplies had been in region the next day, Moore would have had something to negative to say. I may be wrong, but if everything about the disaster was exactly the same, if everything happened just the same way except for the fact that someone Moore liked was President, I don't believe he would have wrote the exact same letter or indeed, any letter at all.

[TnTsParty]

I for one did not mention anything about Michael Moore's weight. So before you generalize and say that those who disagree with him are rude about his weight.

Also I agree with What The Heck - before June 1st (the start of Hurricane Season) they (all the emergency operations of the areas that are in danger of hurricane strikes - and that includes Louisiana because I saw it on their website) insist that people get together a hurricane survival kit with supplies for at least 3 days - we do it down here in Florida (and I am far from being wealthy) Parents or at the very least the local government should have had supplies with them. We didn't wait for the Federal government to provide last year after Frances and Jeanne - we used what we had and were grateful for those that helped us. Granted we weren't under 8-20 feet of water.

[Mickey's Monkey]

Why is it that when people (who don't agree with Michael Moore) comment on him, they make pointed comments about his weight (calling him fat, a pig, buffet stuff, etc.).

Errr.. perhaps cuz he is fat? I simply comment on him finding time while at the fat farm to write this letter.. Simply stating a fact. http://www.examiner.ie/breaking/story.asp?j=62010585&p=6zxyx87x&n=62010875&x=


I'm sorry - that's just rude and insensitive to all those who struggle with their weight.



I rather doubt he stuggles. He seems to have no problem maintaining his weight.

[Hermosa11]

Thank you so much for posting this letter. I have been thinking.......Michael, where are you and your words when I need you! :goodvibes

Michael is soooo cool. :cool1:

[dcentity2000]

OK, that letter has to be the blackest comedy I have read in ages!

Michael Moore certainly has a way with words, doesn't he?



Rich::

[WDWBetsy]

Errr.. perhaps cuz he is fat? I simply comment on him finding time while at the fat farm to write this letter.. Simply stating a fact. http://www.examiner.ie/breaking/story.asp?j=62010585&p=6zxyx87x&n=62010875&x=



I rather doubt he stuggles. He seems to have no problem maintaining his weight.

Good for him. I applaud someone trying to improve their health. Thanks for sharing this. Shame on me for thinking you were being mean. I apologize.

[Mugg Mann]

The Academy Awards were a perfect example. I don't even remember what he said, but the only reason he had that platform is not because he is a scholar or expert on anything, it was because he made a movie and in that setting no one could refute what he said. Why should he have any more audience that the regular guy with the opposing opinion to his?


I'm glad to see that we completely agree that non-scholars or experts like Bill O'Reilly (a person who's named in a deposition as inserting items in himself during phone sex with a woman who's not his wife) and Rush Limbaugh (an alleged drug addict currently under investigation for abusing prescriptions) should not have the access to settings (their respective DAILY shows) where they can say things that no one can refute. You did mean to include them in your post, didn't you? After all, why should either of them have any more audience than the regular guy with the opposing opinions to theirs, right?

[totalia]

I think you expect too much of people who are in a panic for their lives or have hurricanes blow through all the time and are used to it not getting that bad.

People are still people. Leaders are supposed to be a cut above the rest and not only a suit with a title.

[MrsNick]

Please provide source where we sent troops and supplies "overnight"? It takes a few days to get our troops into action. We can't just through them into a situation and have them become as desperate as those they are trying to help. We are talking about a storm that hit less than a week ago. However it's been on our TV for 24 hours a day (I would say 24/7, but it's only been 24/6 since it hit). Also, you do realize that the Coast Guard is a part of our federal government? Who do you think was working inthose helicopters on Monday, Howard Dean?


Just a thought...Not the Army, not the Navy and not the Air Force.

BUT, one function of U.S. Marines is that they are supposed to be able to deploy to any region in the world in under 24 hours. I don't know how many supplies they can carry with them, but Marines can be any place in the world in 24 hours, and they are drilled relentlessly to be able to be packed and ready to go at a specific meeting point on base at any time of day or night.

[eeyore45]

Michael Moore or not, there is no reason why days later people are still dying, starving, suffering, etc. This is the United States of America, not some third world country.

Or how about Sri Llanka is offering to help out the USA? I'm glad somebody has the guts to call out the beaurocracy that chose to have meetings, instead of acting!!

FEMA should have never been umbrellead under the Homeland security, if this is the result!! American Taxpayers PAID big bucks (millions) to do an evacuation plan, including a cat5 in LA!!

[eeyore45]

Please provide source where we sent troops and supplies "overnight"? It takes a few days to get our troops into action. We can't just through them into a situation and have them become as desperate as those they are trying to help. We are talking about a storm that hit less than a week ago. However it's been on our TV for 24 hours a day (I would say 24/7, but it's only been 24/6 since it hit). Also, you do realize that the Coast Guard is a part of our federal government? Who do you think was working inthose helicopters on Monday, Howard Dean?

Interesting report on Sunday Morning today showed the Marines getting in to the Tsunami ravaged area, within 24 hours...

[eeyore45]

The whole world is watching. And once again, a day late and a dollar short, words of wisdom from our president: "This is a huge task that we're dealing with." "These are tough times." "Give cash."

Once again, he finds the photo op: Some black folks to hug, some white men in Mississippi to bond with. He flies over the messy parts of New Orleans, waves and leaves.

The president has put himself at risk by visiting the troops in Iraq, but didn't venture anywhere near the Superdome or the Convention Center, where thousands of victims, mostly black and poor, needed to see that he gave a damn.

©MMV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

[WaltD4Me]

I'm glad to see that we completely agree that non-scholars or experts like Bill O'Reilly (a person who's named in a deposition as inserting items in himself during phone sex with a woman who's not his wife) and Rush Limbaugh (an alleged drug addict currently under investigation for abusing prescriptions) should not have the access to settings (their respective DAILY shows) where they can say things that no one can refute. You did mean to include them in your post, didn't you? After all, why should either of them have any more audience than the regular guy with the opposing opinions to theirs, right?

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of O'Reilly or Limbaugh, I only mentioned O'Reilly because I happened to catch Moore on his show.

The difference between the Academy Award thing and the Daily shows is, that Bill and Rush, right or wrong are basically doing their jobs, they are paid to have the kinds of shows they do and people have a choice or not whether to tune in as they basically know and probably basically agree with what is going to be said. And though the chances are slim of getting through, they can call in and email responses. It's a bit different from "high-jacking" the stage at the Academy Awards to spout a polictical view IMHO.

[Mugg Mann]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of O'Reilly or Limbaugh, I only mentioned O'Reilly because I happened to catch Moore on his show.

The difference between the Academy Award thing and the Daily shows is, that Bill and Rush, right or wrong are basically doing their jobs, they are paid to have the kinds of shows they do and people have a choice or not whether to tune in as they basically know and probably basically agree with what is going to be said. And though the chances are slim of getting through, they can call in and email responses. It's a bit different from "high-jacking" the stage at the Academy Awards to spout a polictical view IMHO.

Hmmm....since that particular awards show came before the advent of Air America radio, please inform us where Michael Moore could otherwise have gone at the time to broadcast an unfiltered, unedited left wing opinion that would reach a national audience? No such platform existed for those left of center. Please don't embarrass yourself by claiming the right didn't have one either.

[lyeag]

Interesting report on Sunday Morning today showed the Marines getting in to the Tsunami ravaged area, within 24 hours...


Just where did the active duty troops come from? Somewhere oversees already? I highly doubt those marines were from a reserve unit in the states.
Just an observation, but active duty troops are far easier to get moving than NG or Reserves. National Guard troops have been the main forces I believe in Katrina. They are the ones who respond to domestic emergencies. Yes, the President could have sent active troops earlier, but that would have meant usurping states' powers.

[momof2inPA]

Yes, the President could have sent active troops earlier, but that would have meant usurping states' powers.

That's a tired excuse. It was obvious the day after the hurricane that this was a national crisis. Everyone should have been mobilized and sent then. When the towers were hit, did we all sit around and wait to see what the governors would do before stopping air travel, train travel, and sending help? No.

Excuses, excuses.... Sadly, there's no excuse that would be acceptable to the people of New Orleans whose relatives died in hospitals and at the Convention Center. I heard a story yesterday about an ICU where they ventilated the ICU patients by hand for 16 hours waiting for help to come. It never came.

[snowy76]

When the towers were hit, did we all sit around and wait to see what the governors would do before stopping air travel, train travel, and sending help? No. It was actually the NY National Guard which stepped in. Some AFNG guys were flying F15s over NYC not only that day but months later. All this under orders from state authorities. I am no fan of George Pataki (who is these days), but he seems to be just a little quicker on the uptake than Kathleen Blanco.

We enter a really slippery slope when we want to set aside the separation of powers between the feds and the states. I'm not saying the response to Katrina was appropriate or not, I'm not going to weigh in on that. I'm just saying that we enter Constitutionally dangerous ground. I don't know what the solution is, but look at it this way: If GWB had taken martial authority without the okay of the state of Louisiana, wouldn't we open the door for someone in the White House (current pres or future) to declare martial law in other situations? We're then giving the executive branch waaay too much power. I don't think anyone really wants that.

[Sadie Elaine]

I really do feel like the government should have done more to prevent this situation, like have actual barriers instead of just pumps and whatnot.

However, I really am thinking that more lives could have been saved had the media not hyped up every single hurricaine that got near New Orleans in the past 25 years to the point that everyone who lives there was completely desensitised to all evacuation procedures. It just gets to a point, like after hearing about the coming destruction over years that it's like "The Boy who Cried Wolf" and no one is going to listen to the National Weather Service or CNN or whoever is giving them warnings anymore.

In better news, the sypmathetic banks have decided to give people with loans a 90 day deferral on their mortgages (for their now non-existant homes and businesses).

It's just sad that you can find articles from 1987 for people calling for better reinforcements against floods in N.O. and no one did anything about it. I mean, Michael Moore is on the right track, but you can't just blame this on Bush. Clinton said this morning that it took a proposal from his first term to make a better drainage system in N.O. took 8 years to get through Congress and then it just disappeared between presidencies. The system just can't work well in situations like this. Louisiana needs 62.5 million dollars and the government (as a whole, not just Bush) proposed 10.5 million. I guess though, now, Bush is going to have to deal with it on his own since everyone else let the situation get so anti-preventable.

Luckily, we have the capability to help out our fellow citizens by donating clothes, money, and even blood until this mess can get cleaned up.

[angey77]

Really ? And what, exactly, do you disagree with in that letter? Which fact are you disputing ?

Due to the fact that Michael Moore is an idiot, I did not read through his letter, just scanned it. What in the hell is he doing, besides sitting on his booty (for lack of better terms) and writing letters for publicity? I don't see him coming to New Orleans to help! I failed to remember seeing him volunteering on LSU's campus, or anywhere else for that matter, to make a difference!
Also, this line BURNS me:
"Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!"
EXCUSE ME! But I know people of ALL RACES sitting on their roofs. Has this man looked into a parish called St. Bernard? My FIL's coworker is still on his roof, one week later, and he is white! So is almost every person in that parish that is stranded! The media does not show you that. You know why? That's not as much controversy as if they were black! You can't stir up half a nation to find a family not of color being stranded. The people in the Superdome, at least they could walk around. At least they had the means to loot for food, and the national media focused on them as victims because they were poor and of minority. These people in St. Bernard (where I grew up and know many people) are on their roofs, with no means of escape, surrounded by floating dead bodies, no way to find food, just waiting every day for a savior!
Sorry to get so emotional, but I don't think people like Michael Moore should be calling the shots when they don't even know 20% of the story.

[totalia]

That's a tired excuse. It was obvious the day after the hurricane that this was a national crisis. Everyone should have been mobilized and sent then. When the towers were hit, did we all sit around and wait to see what the governors would do before stopping air travel, train travel, and sending help? No.

Excuses, excuses.... Sadly, there's no excuse that would be acceptable to the people of New Orleans whose relatives died in hospitals and at the Convention Center. I heard a story yesterday about an ICU where they ventilated the ICU patients by hand for 16 hours waiting for help to come. It never came.
Well put. I agree.

[Mickey's Monkey]

I really do feel like the government should have done more to prevent this situation, like have actual barriers instead of just pumps and whatnot.

Prevent it...how? The impact anticipated to hit N.O did not materialize so people thought they dodged a bullet. Then the next day the levee broke. And broke in a spot that had been recently upgraded I might add. The levee was never designed to withstand more than at Cat3 hurricane. And the studies being undertaken to upgrade it to a Cat 4/5 weren't due to be completed until 2008. And after that the estimates to have the levee upgraded to handle a Cat 4/5 say it would have taken somewhere around 25 years. The last time it was even upgraded to a Cat3 was 1965, I believe. So, I guess the blame should fall on LBJ for not forseeing this.


However, I really am thinking that more lives could have been saved had the media not hyped up every single hurricaine that got near New Orleans in the past 25 years to the point that everyone who lives there was completely desensitised to all evacuation procedures. It just gets to a point, like after hearing about the coming destruction over years that it's like "The Boy who Cried Wolf" and no one is going to listen to the National Weather Service or CNN or whoever is giving them warnings anymore.

Somewhat of a valid point, but it's not the govt responsibilty to ensure people are not stupid. The better question to ask is, given the fact that these people live in a hurricane zone, how many of them had hurricane emergency preparedness kits that would allow them to have essentials for 3 days? Or were these people assuming the govt would just save them?


It's just sad that you can find articles from 1987 for people calling for better reinforcements against floods in N.O. and no one did anything about it. I mean, Michael Moore is on the right track, but you can't just blame this on Bush. Clinton said this morning that it took a proposal from his first term to make a better drainage system in N.O. took 8 years to get through Congress and then it just disappeared between presidencies. The system just can't work well in situations like this. Louisiana needs 62.5 million dollars and the government (as a whole, not just Bush) proposed 10.5 million. I guess though, now, Bush is going to have to deal with it on his own since everyone else let the situation get so anti-preventable.

Also the NO Levee commission chose to spend a lot of that money on building casinos instead. The levee is not under the control of the fed govt, like an interstate. The people of La need to decide how important it is, and how much they are willing to pay, in the form of local tax dollars, to improve it.

[Sadie Elaine]

Prevent it...how?

I'm not an engineer and I'm not going to pretend to have some sort of plan, but I'd say that they could do something similar to what Holland has done to keep itself from sinking into the sea. But the last time I was there, people weren't too keen on extensive dikes because it would put off tourists. But, geez, they can't even bury the dead in N.O. and they've never been able to; one would think that the logical end of technological advancement would be to either fix the problem or stop doing waterfront construction.

The better question to ask is, given the fact that these people live in a hurricane zone, how many of them had hurricane emergency preparedness kits that would allow them to have essentials for 3 days? Or were these people assuming the govt would just save them?

Unfortunately, the standard procedure for hurricaines is simple evacuation because when something is completely flooded, essentials get destroyed. I don't think everyone is just thinking that the government is going to come save them, I think that they realy believe that the storm is going to just miss New Orleans like the "disasterous" hurricaine last year did. I just think a lot of that comes from the hyped up shock nature of the hurricaine reports on the news. I guarantee that if you watch The Weather Channel at the same time CNN or MSNBC or any of the other big networks are reporting on any minor tropical storm that comes through, you will not see the same stunts like reporters throwing their hats into the wind to demonstrate it's strength. It just desensitises people in the area over time. Unfortunately, in a situation where it's "evacuate or possibly die" it's not the brightest choice to distrust the evacuation warnings and stay.

But, I mean, I live 3 hours from the east coast and we've had university closed for hurricaines that have never even affected us. A lot of that has to do with shock media and scared people calling the shots.

[Tink10]

I just wanted to take a moment to agree with those who stated the obvious, that Michael Moore is an IDIOT.

[Pete's Mom]

Why is it that when SOME people who don't agree with Michael Moore comment on him, they make pointed comments about his weight (calling him fat, a pig, buffet stuff, etc.).

I'm sorry - that's just rude and insensitive to all those who struggle with their weight.

If you don't agree with him, fine. But please be nice.

EDITED to clarify I wasn't generalizing, but commenting on how some individuals degrade those people with weight problems by resorting to name-calling when they disagree with that person's opinions. Hey! :mad: I never once said anything about MM's weight. I just said he was an idiot. :goodvibes

[Pete's Mom]

Could it be that the horrifying way that people in New Orleans have been left to fend for themselves is, in fact, a product of class warfare rather than racial warfare per se?

If this had happened in Appalachia, where the infrastructure is also weaker than in some other places, would there be a similar lack of support and evacuation?

Personally, I think this is possible in any city or region with lack of infrastructure and a high proportion of poverty, regardless of race. Excellent post MrsNick and I agree! ::yes::

[two-foxes]

Never get involved in political discussion....I got some good advice once on that. But as a pure middle of the road-er (or political coward as some may call it), I found this article off snopes that has the "flip side" to Mr. Moore's feelings....I don't know, but I did like Mr. Stein in "Ferris"....

I don't think anyone has posted this yet here...


Ben Stein's Thoughts (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8693)

[MELSMICE]

two-foxes - a very interesting letter. Much more on target than the one by Michael Moore.

[Mugg Mann]

Never get involved in political discussion....I got some good advice once on that. But as a pure middle of the road-er (or political coward as some may call it), I found this article off snopes that has the "flip side" to Mr. Moore's feelings....I don't know, but I did like Mr. Stein in "Ferris"....

I don't think anyone has posted this yet here...


Ben Stein's Thoughts (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8693)

And I liked him too in "Ferris". But I gotta admit, I didn't care much for his political leanings back when he was Richard Nixon's speechwriter. Obviously, the previous experience Mr. Stein has had defending those who shouldn't be holding the office of President served him well when he wrote that.

[Mugg Mann]

Hmmm....numerous people on this thread have referred to Michael Moore as an idiot. According to my handy dictionary, the word idiot is definied thusly;

1) A foolish or stupid person.
2) A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers.

I fully understand why some would disagree with his political views. I would expect those who trash Moore to also trash people such as Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Hannity for instance. All of them, like Moore, make huge wads of money exploiting political views for their own profit.

I happen to think he's the only person on the national stage effectively pointing out the many shortcomings of our current administration as well as the lies that have killed thousands of human beings. If he's also making money in the course of doing so, all power to him. It certainly doesn't make him foolish or stupid. In fact, far from it. So the first definition is out...

As for the second definition, I challenge any poster to explain how he's mentally retarded. And please remember to use facts when you do so.

The point of this post? When you decide to slander someone because you can not effectively counter the facts he keeps putting right in front of your face, please use something appropiate. Yes, he's fat. No question. But more importantly, so what?!? Bush has done a horrendous job with virtually everything he's touched, and I praise Michael Moore for being the first person to have the guts to come out and eloquently say so nationally.

[two-foxes]

Bush has done a horrendous job with virtually everything he's touched, and I praise Michael Moore for being the first person to have the guts to come out and eloquently say so nationally.

"Eloquently" is the part I have a problem with. I don't have a dictionary with me, but in reading that article, I don't think of it as eloquent. I think of it as harsh and attacking. He especially lost my respect in that letter when he attacked Bush about Cindy Sheehan....if his intent was to point out Bush's poor response to Katrina, why immaturely throw that last "p.s" in? In comparing the two letters and the intent to defend each sides point, Stein wins. "Anyone, Anyone?" "Bueller, Bueller?"

[WDWBetsy]

Hmmm....numerous people on this thread have referred to Michael Moore as an idiot. According to my handy dictionary, the word idiot is definied thusly;

1) A foolish or stupid person.
2) A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers.

I fully understand why some would disagree with his political views. I would expect those who trash Moore to also trash people such as Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Hannity for instance. All of them, like Moore, make huge wads of money exploiting political views for their own profit.

I happen to think he's the only person on the national stage effectively pointing out the many shortcomings of our current administration as well as the lies that have killed thousands of human beings. If he's also making money in the course of doing so, all power to him. It certainly doesn't make him foolish or stupid. In fact, far from it. So the first definition is out...

As for the second definition, I challenge any poster to explain how he's mentally retarded. And please remember to use facts when you do so.

The point of this post? When you decide to slander someone because you can not effectively counter the facts he keeps putting right in front of your face, please use something appropiate. Yes, he's fat. No question. But more importantly, so what?!? Bush has done a horrendous job with virtually everything he's touched, and I praise Michael Moore for being the first person to have the guts to come out and eloquently say so nationally.

Well said. :wizard:

[Pete's Mom]

Mugg Mann - it's 1) A foolish or stupid person. :teeth:

Thanks for playing! :goodvibes

[angey77]

My Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary also has "idiot" as:
Definition 1) ignorant person

hmmmm.

"Ignorant" is defined as:
1) destitute of knowledge or education
2) lacking knowledge of comprehension of the things specified

I think his racial comment alone summed up the definition of him being an idiot, as you can see in my previous post.

[JerJan]

Quote by Mickey's Monkey "Somewhat of a valid point, but it's not the govt responsibilty to ensure people are not stupid. The better question to ask is, given the fact that these people live in a hurricane zone, how many of them had hurricane emergency preparedness kits that would allow them to have essentials for 3 days? Or were these people assuming the govt would just save them?"

Gee....... I personally survived Hurricane Andrew and I must say that at the time I was in my hall closet with a 4 month old sick daughter under a folded up crib mattress trying to save MY A-- and my daughter's I was unable to hold on to all of my hurricane supplies! :confused3

[Mugg Mann]

My Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary also has "idiot" as:
Definition 1) ignorant person

hmmmm.

"Ignorant" is defined as:
1) destitute of knowledge or education
2) lacking knowledge of comprehension of the things specified

I think his racial comment alone summed up the definition of him being an idiot, as you can see in my previous post.

My compliments on an intelligent retort, although I disagree in that I do believe there is a racial component.

The Chicago Tribune reported that "the Army Corps of Engineers was denied the funding it requested to enlarge levees and protect New Orleans from hurricanes and flooding; while a Republican congressman said that additional resources could have prevented some of the damage; and while the New Orleans Times-Picayune concluded that "No one can say they didn't see it coming" ... the president did just that."

On the September 1 broadcast of ABC's Good Morning America, President Bush acted as though the breach of the levees was an unforeseeable fluke occurrence: "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."

Since it was obvious to any televison viewer watching any newscast well before Katrina hit that levee breaches were one of the biggest concerns, using the criteria you've listed above, I now await your next post in which you refer to the President of the United States as an idiot.

[Mickeyistheman]

Michael Moore may be an idiot but he did state facts. He didn't make anything up. So to say that he is an idiot and fat (which is just mean) is really dumb on the posters part.

Besides his war comments, which I happen to agree with. What was incorrect on his letter? Say his is an idiot but then back it up with some intelligent response.

Children and women were being raped, why hasn't anyone talked about that. I know that is hard to deal with but come on. That should not be happening. Where was the police force, where was the National Guard??

The whole government was not prepared in anyway for this situation and THEY KNEW it was coming.

[What the Heck]

Michael Moore may be an idiot but he did state facts. He didn't make anything up. So to say that he is an idiot and fat (which is just mean) is really dumb on the posters part.

Besides his war comments, which I happen to agree with. What was incorrect on his letter? Say his is an idiot but then back it up with some intelligent response.

Children and women were being raped, why hasn't anyone talked about that. I know that is hard to deal with but come on. That should not be happening. Where was the police force, where was the National Guard??

The whole government was not prepared in anyway for this situation and THEY KNEW it was coming.Go to page 11 and you will see my response that goes by paragraph and what is wrong with the letter. He was factually incorrect with many things at the very least by inference. Not once do I call him fat or an idiot, I didn't even talk about him, just the letter. If I was cynical I would say that the people bringing up that it's not fair to call MM fat as a defense are doing it to change the subject, but I won't. :smooth:

As for your comments about the National Guard, it is the Louisiana National Guard in a case like this. They belong are under the authority of the Governor, not the President. The police belong to the city. How is this a responsibility of the President?

[MELSMICE]

As for your comments about the National Guard, it is the Louisiana National Guard in a case like this. They belong are under the authority of the Governor, not the President. The police belong to the city. How is this a responsibility of the President?

Wondering that myself also? How is it the responsibility of the president?

[Mickeyistheman]

How is it NOT the responsibility of the President. He is the Commander in Chief. Is he not supposed to help his fellow Americans? Did they not vote for him. This is on a much grander scale now and I am not saying that he is 100% at fault but he should have been there the next day or even 2 days after this hurricane happened.

Is he only suppose to worry about Iraq? You know we have to "Stay the Course!"