Americans need to support their leader. Like it or not.

[momof2inPA]

If he were leading, I'd be supportive. He's not leading, and someone needs to step up.

[Amyality]

That's arguable considering the circumstances surrounding his first presidential election.

Anne

I have not gotten through this whole thread but,I can't believe anyone would think GORE would be doing a better job. What a wet noodle!

I think the first poster, the Canadian, spoke very true. Also, the European response to this disaster has been shameful (turning it into a chance to slam Bush politically). That said I am ashamed that the gglobal warming issue has been swept under the rug by the US. Global warming did significantly impact the conditions in Lousisana (sea level is constantly rising and areas of the coast are below sea level) and the conditions in the ocean (stronger storms due to a warmer ocean). Hopoefully, acknowledging this and getting the US greener will be a postive concequece of the Katrina disaster. Lets pull together and see that it happens!

[auntpolly]

Here's what he needs to do for me to support him.

Fire the head of FEMA

Beg for our forgiveness

Dress in sack cloth and cover himself with ashes and roll on the ground and gnash his teeth.

Then I'll think about it.

[Mai Ku Tiki]

I always liked this:

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

"Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149


And for the record this is President TEDDY Roosevelt (REPUBLICAN!) !!! :)

[Free4Life11]

I also want to say this whole idea of "we wont help you until you ask us for help" is ridiculous. Maybe there are legalities...I don't kno, but maybe instead of THEM asking or help the FEDS should be OFFERING help...I mean they only collect $2 trillion in tax dollars from us...it's the least they could do. This idea that they should "wait" until they're asked is nuts.

And who do they ask? The President? FEMA? Donald Rumsfield?

[Mai Ku Tiki]

Originally Posted by FionaLovesShrek
Hmm..I find this sad. My DD once said those words to me RE: an adult she didn't like. I told her that when it comes to people in authority, they do not have to earn our respect, we give it because of their position of authority to us.


Aloha!
Americans can love their country, appreciate their democracy, and respect the OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY while disagreeing with the President and/or his policies.

This is OUR government (yours and mine) NOT his!

That's why we have elections...essentially to hire or fire our elected representatives. That's why we DON'T have KINGS!!!!!

[What the Heck]

I also want to say this whole idea of "we wont help you until you ask us for help" is ridiculous. Maybe there are legalities...I don't kno, but maybe instead of THEM asking or help the FEDS should be OFFERING help...I mean they only collect $2 trillion in tax dollars from us...it's the least they could do. This idea that they should "wait" until they're asked is nuts.

And who do they ask? The President? FEMA? Donald Rumsfield?Why do you think he was calling the Governors and talking to them daily? To see if they wanted some cake?

You know, the seperation of Church and State has been infered in to our Constitution. People talk about it as if it was always there. It wasn't, it had to be ruled on by the Supreme Court to even come close. The seperation of powers is in our Constitution, but people want a chance to bash President Bush, so that is much more important.

The claims against his head of FEMA, they should be investigated. Holding him responsible for that is fair game. The claims that he should have done something else sooner, that was not possible.

How come no one has responded to what I posted when I said about a conversation I had with a friend of mine who was in Homestead for Andrew? It took 5 days then - with roads that were passable to get there, but not in town. Here the roads to get there have been destroyed, yet it took the same 5 days. Yet President Bush is deemed incompetant and racist because of this. :rolleyes:

[dcentity2000]

Tell you what, we can swap leaders! We'll take the dumbo and you guys can have the creepy thing with the sweaty teeth :teeth:



Rich::

[Lebjwb]

Why do you think he was calling the Governors and talking to them daily? To see if they wanted some cake?

You know, the seperation of Church and State has been infered in to our Constitution. People talk about it as if it was always there. It wasn't, it had to be ruled on by the Supreme Court to even come close. The seperation of powers is in our Constitution, but people want a chance to bash President Bush, so that is much more important.

The claims against his head of FEMA, they should be investigated. Holding him responsible for that is fair game. The claims that he should have done something else sooner, that was not possible.

How come no one has responded to what I posted when I said about a conversation I had with a friend of mine who was in Homestead for Andrew? It took 5 days then - with roads that were passable to get there, but not in town. Here the roads to get there have been destroyed, yet it took the same 5 days. Yet President Bush is deemed incompetant and racist because of this. :rolleyes:

Why do you think he was calling the Governors and talking to them daily? To see if they wanted some cake?

Actually, that's EXACTLY what Bu$h was doing while the citizens of New Orleans drowned in their attics.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/images/20050829-5_p082905pm-0125-515h.jpg

[jcemom]

Hmm..I find this sad. My DD once said those words to me RE: an adult she didn't like. I told her that when it comes to people in authority, they do not have to earn our respect, we give it because of their position of authority to us.I respectfully disagree with this. Someone must earn my respect. I do not respect someone simply because they hold a certain position. Should I respect Saddam Hussein? He was a President. Should I respect Adolph Hitler? He was a Chancellor? Should I respect a child-molesting priest just because he is a priest? I don't think so, but that's JMO of course.

I don't think President Bush is a bad person...I am NOT comparing him to Hussein, Hitler, or child-molesters. (Just wanted to make that clear before everyone got too terribly upset with me. ;) ) I just don't think he's a very good president.

[PrincessShea]

How come no one has responded to what I posted when I said about a conversation I had with a friend of mine who was in Homestead for Andrew? It took 5 days then - with roads that were passable to get there, but not in town. Here the roads to get there have been destroyed, yet it took the same 5 days. Yet President Bush is deemed incompetant and racist because of this. :rolleyes:

1. 23 people died in Andrew (Verify (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Andrew) ). COMPLETELY different situation. There is a huge difference between it taking 5 days for people to have rubble cleaned up, and 5 days for people to get food and water (as the deathtoll climbs).
2. Because that was before the gov't spent exorbitant amounts of money restructuring the gov’t, telling us they could respond to another terrorist attack if it should happen. But they cannot even respond to something that was PREDICTED days in advance.

That’s why. :rolleyes:

[What the Heck]

1. 23 people died in Andrew (Verify (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Andrew) ). COMPLETELY different situation. There is a huge difference between it taking 5 days for people to have rubble cleaned up, and 5 days for people to get food and water (as the deathtoll climbs).
2. Because that was before the gov't spent exorbitant amounts of money restructuring the gov’t, telling us they could respond to another terrorist attack if it should happen. But they cannot even respond to something that was PREDICTED days in advance.

That’s why. :rolleyes:The government did not restructure the Constitution and the responsibilities and authority the State has. As for your 1st point, you actually proved my point. It was as strong, but the roads leading in were not destroyed. It still took 5 days.

[Free4Life11]

Maybe they need to add an amendment that if the media is showing BABIES DYING OF THIRST the federal government could step in and help the situation WITHOUT being asked.

[WDWBetsy]

Maybe they need to add an amendment that if the media is showing BABIES DYING OF THIRST the federal government could step in and help the situation WITHOUT being asked.

Exactly! When the average person watching TV sees this, they expect their leaders to act without waiting for a signed request.

Change is needed.

[swilphil]

Tell you what, we can swap leaders! We'll take the dumbo and you guys can have the creepy thing with the sweaty teeth :teeth:

Rich::

Sweaty teeth?? How does that happen?

[auntpolly]

Maybe they need to add an amendment that if the media is showing BABIES DYING OF THIRST the federal government could step in and help the situation WITHOUT being asked.

A standing ovation for this post!!!!!!

I think we Americans would have forgiven Bush showing a little initiative and acting without going trough all the correct channels!

I think he woukld have done just that for rich white folks stranded on thr roofs of their million dollar homes.

[PrincessShea]

The government did not restructure the Constitution and the responsibilities and authority the State has. As for your 1st point, you actually proved my point. It was as strong, but the roads leading in were not destroyed. It still took 5 days.

You completely misunderstood the point. It is acceptable to take your time and take 5 days when all you have to do is go in and clear debris. It is UNACCEPTABLE to take 5 days when thousands of people are already dead and thousands more are starving and dehydrated!!! Rural Florida, where only 23 people died in the end is not even closely comparable to a major American city where hundreds of thousands of people are trapped and in mortal danger!

[Free4Life11]

I think we Americans would have forgiven Bush showing a little initiative and acting without going trough all the correct channels!

Exactly! I sure as hell wouldn't have had a problem with that, if it meant saving the lives of AMERICAN CITIZENS from dying!

[swilphil]

I have not gotten through this whole thread but,I can't believe anyone would think GORE would be doing a better job. What a wet noodle!

Gore might be a wet noodle, but he was a very efficient one while vice president. He was in charge of the Reinventing Government initiative that resulted in streamlining the bureacracy and getting rid of thousands of pages of government regulations. It saved the government a great deal of money and made it run more efficiently.

[Not so Dumbo]

I know you don't want to hear this. But you need to quit complaining and slamming Bush, and do what you can to help.

He is not responsible for the hurricane. He is not responsible for the creeps that are looting. He is not responsible for the people that didn't evacuate and died. He is doing all he can. He is bringing in troops, military, police. Canadian troops have been called in.

He is one man. But he is not the only man in the government.
You need to support him. Whether you voted for him or not. Whether you like him as a person or not.

America pulled together after 9-11. You need to pull together now. Sitting on the computer all day slamming Bush isn't helping anybody in New Orleans.

When I see him on the news, he is working his butt off. Have compassion for the man. He is doing the best he can. His heart is breaking just as yours is.
I can guarantee he didn't get any sleep the last few nights, and is working 24 hours a day to address the problems. He has a huge job on his shoulders, and needs your support. Not your criticism.

You think you could do better? You think you would have all the answers? Then get out there and do something about it. But slamming your leader...isn't helping anybody. You are just causing division, bitterness and hurt. Use the efforts it takes to be miserable, and help. Give money. Give blood. Have a fundraiser. Volunteer. Do what you can.

Just a point of view from a Canadian....

Thank-you :cool1: :cool1: My point exactly :cheer2: :cheer2:

[ducklite]

Tell you what, we can swap leaders! We'll take the dumbo and you guys can have the creepy thing with the sweaty teeth :teeth:

Rich::

At least we'd have someone with compassion that way...

Anne

[Viking]

I respectfully disagree with this. Someone must earn my respect. I do not respect someone simply because they hold a certain position. Should I respect Saddam Hussein? He was a President. Should I respect Adolph Hitler? He was a Chancellor? Should I respect a child-molesting priest just because he is a priest? I don't think so, but that's JMO of course.

I don't think President Bush is a bad person...I am NOT comparing him to Hussein, Hitler, or child-molesters. (Just wanted to make that clear before everyone got too terribly upset with me. ;) ) I just don't think he's a very good president.

Your bringing in Hitler here is so fitting to this thread: Hitler called himself 'Der Führer', which then was used by everyone in Nazi-Germany. 'Führer' means 'Leader', so this should be ample warning that blindly following leaders can be very dangerous.
This is in no way meant to compare Bush to Hitler.
Nevertheless democracy in the USA has been in a decline since Bush took over, his control of the media is 'admirable' :rolleyes: He goofs up time after time, but still finds people believeng he's doing a great job and even praising him. He managed to mark everyone of different opinion as unpatriotic as traitors, etc just because there is a war. Even though this war was begun by him. And please don't give me that crap about 'The war against terror', 9/11 was an act of terror, taking it as an act of war means IMHO granting those maniac terrorists status of a nation, of a worthy opponent, which they aren't.
Unfortunately everyone fell for and says 'It's a war, we have to be united'.
Fortunately -as this thread show- more and more people see through the fog and discover what he really is.

[What the Heck]

Maybe they need to add an amendment that if the media is showing BABIES DYING OF THIRST the federal government could step in and help the situation WITHOUT being asked.And that would get them there immediately? How does this work? How do the roads get repaired just because a law is passed? How do the laws of physics be broken?

[What the Heck]

Your bringing in Hitler here is so fitting to this thread: Hitler called himself 'Der Führer', which then was used by everyone in Nazi-Germany. 'Führer' means 'Leader', so this should be ample warning that blindly following leaders can be very dangerous.
This is in no way meant to compare Bush to Hitler.
Nevertheless democracy in the USA has been in a decline since Bush took over, his control of the media is 'admirable' :rolleyes: He goofs up time after time, but still finds people believeng he's doing a great job and even praising him. He managed to mark everyone of different opinion as unpatriotic as traitors, etc just because there is a war. Even though this war was begun by him. And please don't give me that crap about 'The war against terror', 9/11 was an act of terror, taking it as an act of war means IMHO granting those maniac terrorists status of a nation, of a worthy opponent, which they aren't.
Unfortunately everyone fell for and says 'It's a war, we have to be united'.
Fortunately -as this thread show- more and more people see through the fog and discover what he really is.What is really funny is that the people who are claiming he didn't do enough would have him do what Hitler did - seize power that is not his. For those outside the US, he did not have the authority to move in before he did. So this deomocracy you say has been in decline - it would have been greatly in decline if he did what the left says he should have done.

It seems like they all want to bash him, without regard to what they are bashing him about. Lets take a look at potential problems. What happens when the next hurricane hits in an area that is prepared for it, one that is ready to do what needs to be done. Should the President send in troops? If he does, he has broken several of our laws. Who would be in control? The troops the Governor has sent down to stop the disturbances or the troops that the President has sent down? Are we so far away in civilization that it is inconceivable that a leader would send in troops to "take care of the problems our population is having" and not have them stay? Was Czechlosovikia (I know, spelling) really so far away? Poland? Hungaria? Serbia? Mogadeshiu (thinking of the gang troops, not ours)? Are we so desperate to give up our rights just to bash a president we don't like?

Would Clinton have done anything differently? I don't think so, except to cancel the VJ day trip. I didn't like him, but he was a good politician. And, as much as I didn't like him (I don't know of anyone that liked him less), I would never say he didn't care about a disaster. He was the most selfish president we have ever had, but he wasn't a monster.

[Florida_Mom]

Maureen Dowd's column in the NYT today was interesting:

United States of Shame

By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: September 3, 2005

Stuff happens.

And when you combine limited government with incompetent government, lethal stuff happens.

America is once more plunged into a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, marauding thugs, suffering innocents, a shattered infrastructure, a gutted police force, insufficient troop levels and criminally negligent government planning. But this time it's happening in America.

W. drove his budget-cutting Chevy to the levee, and it wasn't dry. Bye, bye, American lives. "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," he told Diane Sawyer.

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in Hell yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins. He was clearly moved. "You know, I'm going to fly out of here in a minute," he said on the runway at the New Orleans International Airport, "but I want you to know that I'm not going to forget what I've seen." Out of the cameras' range, and avoided by W., was a convoy of thousands of sick and dying people, some sprawled on the floor or dumped on baggage carousels at a makeshift M*A*S*H unit inside the terminal.

Why does this self-styled "can do" president always lapse into such lame "who could have known?" excuses.

Who on earth could have known that Osama bin Laden wanted to attack us by flying planes into buildings? Any official who bothered to read the trellis of pre-9/11 intelligence briefs.

Who on earth could have known that an American invasion of Iraq would spawn a brutal insurgency, terrorist recruiting boom and possible civil war? Any official who bothered to read the C.I.A.'s prewar reports.

Who on earth could have known that New Orleans's sinking levees were at risk from a strong hurricane? Anybody who bothered to read the endless warnings over the years about the Big Easy's uneasy fishbowl.

In June 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, fretted to The Times-Picayune in New Orleans: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

Not only was the money depleted by the Bush folly in Iraq; 30 percent of the National Guard and about half its equipment are in Iraq.

Ron Fournier of The Associated Press reported that the Army Corps of Engineers asked for $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans last year. The White House carved it to about $40 million. But President Bush and Congress agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-filled highway bill with 6,000 pet projects, including a $231 million bridge for a small, uninhabited Alaskan island.

Just last year, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials practiced how they would respond to a fake hurricane that caused floods and stranded New Orleans residents. Imagine the feeble FEMA's response to Katrina if they had not prepared.

Michael Brown, the blithering idiot in charge of FEMA - a job he trained for by running something called the International Arabian Horse Association - admitted he didn't know until Thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center.

Was he sacked instantly? No, our tone-deaf president hailed him in Mobile, Ala., yesterday: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

It would be one thing if President Bush and his inner circle - Dick Cheney was vacationing in Wyoming; Condi Rice was shoe shopping at Ferragamo's on Fifth Avenue and attended "Spamalot" before bloggers chased her back to Washington; and Andy Card was off in Maine - lacked empathy but could get the job done. But it is a chilling lack of empathy combined with a stunning lack of efficiency that could make this administration implode.

When the president and vice president rashly shook off our allies and our respect for international law to pursue a war built on lies, when they sanctioned torture, they shook the faith of the world in American ideals.

When they were deaf for so long to the horrific misery and cries for help of the victims in New Orleans - most of them poor and black, like those stuck at the back of the evacuation line yesterday while 700 guests and employees of the Hyatt Hotel were bused out first - they shook the faith of all Americans in American ideals. And made us ashamed.

Who are we if we can't take care of our own?

E-mail: liberties@nytimes.com

[What the Heck]

When the president and vice president ... sanctioned torture, they shook the faith of the world in American ideals.
Wow, she is a believable source. :rolleyes: And the Governor and Mayor did nothing wrong.

[lyeag]

I can't remember which station it was, but there was gov't official on from the Corp stating that people thought water would come over the top of the levee in a Cat 4 or 5, not that the levee would actually give way. Don't know how true that is, but there is a difference.

[Amyality]

It was appauling that they removed the Hayatt employees and guests before the poor folks in the astrodome. That was really wrong. I don't know who decided that was a good idea but, geezzz...I could see rotating them in every 4th busload or something (I can't see throwing them in the back of the line at the astrodome, that is not fair either). However, I'm pretty sure we can't blame Bush personally for the blunder! I have no doubts that someone will...

[Viking]

What is really funny is that the people who are claiming he didn't do enough would have him do what Hitler did - seize power that is not his. For those outside the US, he did not have the authority to move in before he did. So this deomocracy you say has been in decline - it would have been greatly in decline if he did what the left says he should have done.

It seems like they all want to bash him, without regard to what they are bashing him about. Lets take a look at potential problems. What happens when the next hurricane hits in an area that is prepared for it, one that is ready to do what needs to be done. Should the President send in troops? If he does, he has broken several of our laws. Who would be in control? The troops the Governor has sent down to stop the disturbances or the troops that the President has sent down? Are we so far away in civilization that it is inconceivable that a leader would send in troops to "take care of the problems our population is having" and not have them stay? Was Czechlosovikia (I know, spelling) really so far away? Poland? Hungaria? Serbia? Mogadeshiu (thinking of the gang troops, not ours)? Are we so desperate to give up our rights just to bash a president we don't like?

Would Clinton have done anything differently? I don't think so, except to cancel the VJ day trip. I didn't like him, but he was a good politician. And, as much as I didn't like him (I don't know of anyone that liked him less), I would never say he didn't care about a disaster. He was the most selfish president we have ever had, but he wasn't a monster.

You very obviously belong 100% to the people who fell for his manipulations, as you automatically call criticism of your 'leader' bashing. :rolleyes:
And what has Clinton to do with this :confused3 Obviously it is an automatism for rightwing nutcases to automatically revert to bringing in Clinton when someone critizises Bush. That's a distraction which may have worked earlier - but how comes, that exactly this Mr Clinton was called for by Dubya to help him NOW - together with Daddy :teeth:
Or can it be this:
Clinton got a blow-job from Monica and goofed up.
Bush got one from Katrina and goofed up.

Honestly: I prefer Bill's failure ;)

[What the Heck]

It was appauling that they removed the Hayatt employees and guests before the poor folks in the astrodome. That was really wrong. I don't know who decided that was a good idea but, geezzz...I could see rotating them in every 4th busload or something (I can't see throwing them in the back of the line at the astrodome, that is not fair either). However, I'm pretty sure we can't blame Bush personally for the blunder! I have no doubts that someone will...I'm sure someone will, even though the order for their "front of the line privelidges" came directly from the Mayor.

[What the Heck]

You very obviously belong 100% to the people who fell for his manipulations, as you automatically call criticism of your 'leader' bashing. :rolleyes:
And what has Clinton to do with this :confused3 Obviously it is an automatism for rightwing nutcases to automatically revert to bringing in Clinton when someone critizises Bush. That's a distraction which may have worked earlier - but how comes, that exactly this Mr Clinton was called for by Dubya to help him NOW - together with Daddy :teeth:
Or can it be this:
Clinton got a blow-job from Monica and goofed up.
Busg got one from Katrina and goofed up.

Honestly: I prefer Bill's failure ;)Um, why is it that his "manipulations" include things he did not have the authority to do? Wow, is he that smart? I like this, he is so incompetant that he isn't able to do someone elses job as well. That is what I call bashing.

As for Clinton, I was using him as an example. If you actually read what I wrote, I didn't say one bad thing about Clinton. But, hey if you are able to use it to distract from you not knowing what you are talking about here, thats ok.

I don't mean that as a total slam. You are from another country, our government works different than yours. People here are blaming Bush because he didn't do something he wasn't supposed to do. There have been some other things that have been discussed, such as his FEMA director choice, but the argument I am saying has no foundation is that it wasn't his responsibility nor did he have the authority, nor should he have. That is a nuance of our government, it keeps our federal government in check.

And, if I was deflecting by bringing in Clinton, even though I didn't criticize him, what were you doing by bringing in Iraq in a thread about a natural disaster?

[Jen D]

Wow, she is a believable source. :rolleyes: And the Governor and Mayor did nothing wrong.

:confused3 Where did she say that?

[What the Heck]

:confused3 Where did she say that?She didn't say that, but it was implied. How about here:


"And when you combine limited government with incompetent government, lethal stuff happens.

America is once more plunged into a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, marauding thugs, suffering innocents, a shattered infrastructure, a gutted police force, insufficient troop levels and criminally negligent government planning. But this time it's happening in America.

W. drove his budget-cutting Chevy to the levee, and it wasn't dry. Bye, bye, American lives. "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," he told Diane Sawyer.

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in Hell yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins. He was clearly moved. "You know, I'm going to fly out of here in a minute," he said on the runway at the New Orleans International Airport, "but I want you to know that I'm not going to forget what I've seen." Out of the cameras' range, and avoided by W., was a convoy of thousands of sick and dying people, some sprawled on the floor or dumped on baggage carousels at a makeshift M*A*S*H unit inside the terminal.

Why does this self-styled "can do" president always lapse into such lame "who could have known?" excuses."


Limited government with incompetant government? How is the states authority and responsibility limited in protecting their citizens? Isn't that what they are paid for? Evacuation procedures for all cities in the country are in the hands of local government - and that is where they belong. Disaster recorvery plans for all states in the country are in the hands of the State government. And that is where they belong. Responsibility for these plans rest with the governments that is in charge for them - and that is where they belong.

The entire article was nothing but a recital from MoveOn.org - anti-Bush with no responsibility for those who had the authority and did nothing.

[lyeag]

What the Heck, don't waste your breath. They WANT to blame the Pres. Therefore, nothing else matters.


BTW, I am not saying there weren't mistakes at the Federal level, but, some major things need to be investigated at the state and local level.

[lsyorke]

And that would get them there immediately? How does this work? How do the roads get repaired just because a law is passed? How do the laws of physics be broken?


They could take the same road that Harry Connick Jr. managed to take to do his report from the center of New Orleans!!

Since yesterday we've seen a response by the military that is to be commended. Once they put a 3 star General in charge, who wasn't to busy doing press conferences, the situation improved massively!

[What the Heck]

They could take the same road that Harry Connick Jr. managed to take to do his report from the center of New Orleans!!

Since yesterday we've seen a response by the military that is to be commended. Once they put a 3 star General in charge, who wasn't to busy doing press conferences, the situation improved massively!So a truck loaded with supplies that weighs something like 25,000 lbs can go the same routes that a car that weights 2,000?

And, those same troops that are taking orders from that 3 star should have went UA to work in New Orleans with now back up support?

[Florida_Mom]

:confused3 Where did she say that?

Yeah, I didn't. I also think there's PLENTY of blame to go around. And I've never been a Maureen Dowd fan, but she had some good points. The article came straight from the Op-Ed at the NYT today. And according to MSNBC, DOD has responsibility for evacuation plans. (I actually didn't realize that, but according the military analyst they were interviewing, it is.)

It seems like those who don't like the president are blaming him (and I've been in that group, so I'll take it...) and those who like the president are blaming the mayor and the governor. And those who think everyone should just take personal responsibility forget the logistics of planning a trip to WDW in our SUVs with our mapquest, our bank accounts, and our handy tips from these boards MUCH LESS a poor person at the end of the month with two kids and no car and no computer, and nowhere to go planning something like that at the last minute.

This is has just been a colossal mess anyway you look at it. They ALL share responsibility and they ALL share in the blame. Hopefully in the meantime the local, state, and federal levels of government can all get it together and save some more lives. And as we go, we can figure out how to prevent this kind of botched up rescue/recovery operation.

I said it on another thread...something that went right? The Coast Guard. They are just awesome.

[Free4Life11]

Yeah, I didn't. I also think there's PLENTY of blame to go around. And I've never been a Maureen Dowd fan, but she had some good points. The article came straight from the Op-Ed at the NYT today. And according to MSNBC, DOD has responsibility for evacuation plans. (I actually didn't realize that, but according the military analyst they were interviewing, it is.)

It seems like those who don't like the president are blaming him (and I've been in that group, so I'll take it...) and those who like the president are blaming the mayor and the governor. And those who think everyone should just take personal responsibility forget the logistics of planning a trip to WDW in our SUVs with our mapquest, our bank accounts, and our handy tips from these boards MUCH LESS a poor person at the end of the month with two kids and no car and no computer, and nowhere to go planning something like that at the last minute.

This is has just been a colossal mess anyway you look at it. They ALL share responsibility and they ALL share in the blame. Hopefully in the meantime the local, state, and federal levels of government can all get it together and save some more lives. And as we go, we can figure out how to prevent this kind of botched up rescue/recovery operation.

I said it on another thread...something that went right? The Coast Guard. They are just awesome.

I think you summed it up well. Everyone of us has strong feelings one way or the other. Let's just hope that they can get everyone out of harms way soon.

[lsyorke]

So a truck loaded with supplies that weighs something like 25,000 lbs can go the same routes that a car that weights 2,000?

And, those same troops that are taking orders from that 3 star should have went UA to work in New Orleans with now back up support?

Those trucks/buses/tanks made it down those same roads(with no repairs made) 5 days later. I have no idea what UA is. The Department of Defense has said publically that they were waiting to be activated, and that they ARE equipped to respond to disasters like this and were ready.. just never deployed by the correct person.

[WDWBetsy]

What the Heck, don't waste your breath. They WANT to blame the Pres. Therefore, nothing else matters.


BTW, I am not saying there weren't mistakes at the Federal level, but, some major things need to be investigated at the state and local level.

Here's my problem with Bush. On Monday when the hurricane was making landfall, Bush had other priorities that he didn't cancel. He had policies to promote at a country club.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/images/20050829-5_p082905pm-0125-515h.jpg
President George W. Bush joins Arizona Senator John McCain in a small celebration of McCain's 69th birthday Monday, Aug. 29, 2005, after the President's arrival at Luke Air Force Base near Phoenix. The President later spoke about Medicare to 400 guests at the Pueblo El Mirage RV Resort and Country Club in nearby El Mirage.
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050829/i/r3345646180.jpg

Then on Tuesday, while the levees were flooding New Orleans, he was busy strumming a guitar.
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.capm10108301730.bush_capm101.jpg
President Bush, left, plays a guitar presented to him by Country singer Mark Wills, backstage following his visit to Naval Base Coronado, Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Bush visited the base to deliver remarks on V-J Commemoration Day.

I guess my big problem is that he doesn't seem to handle imminent problems very well.

[What the Heck]

Yeah, I didn't. I also think there's PLENTY of blame to go around. And I've never been a Maureen Dowd fan, but she had some good points. The article came straight from the Op-Ed at the NYT today. And according to MSNBC, DOD has responsibility for evacuation plans. (I actually didn't realize that, but according the military analyst they were interviewing, it is.).You live in Florida. We have had evacuations from Miami. Who ordered it? It sure wasn't anyone from DOD, they don't have the authority. It was Jeb Bush. Why is Louisiana different in that?


It seems like those who don't like the president are blaming him (and I've been in that group, so I'll take it...) and those who like the president are blaming the mayor and the governor. And those who think everyone should just take personal responsibility forget the logistics of planning a trip to WDW in our SUVs with our mapquest, our bank accounts, and our handy tips from these boards MUCH LESS a poor person at the end of the month with two kids and no car and no computer, and nowhere to go planning something like that at the last minute..That is why there are evacuation plans and disaster recovery plans. They are supposed to take care of all of the citizens. And those plans are and should be at the city and state level.


This is has just been a colossal mess anyway you look at it. They ALL share responsibility and they ALL share in the blame. Hopefully in the meantime the local, state, and federal levels of government can all get it together and save some more lives. And as we go, we can figure out how to prevent this kind of botched up rescue/recovery operation..Share, yes, but there are those who are already trying to make political points, such as Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Marueen Dowd. I really don't see, myself, how much of the blame is the federal government. They got there in a hurry, they got to a more horrific disaster this time quicker than they did in 1992. They weren't asked (for troops and supplies, not money) until late, they had to get past roads that no longer exist, but were there in 3 days (after finally being requested).


I said it on another thread...something that went right? The Coast Guard. They are just awesome.
You are so right there - as well as the other military troops involved.

[What the Heck]

Those trucks/buses/tanks made it down those same roads(with no repairs made) 5 days later. I have no idea what UA is. The Department of Defense has said publically that they were waiting to be activated, and that they ARE equipped to respond to disasters like this and were ready.. just never deployed by the correct person.They made it down the exact same roads? Are you sure? No deviations because a road/land might not properly hold the truck without it getting stuck?

UA is unathorized absence. Sorry for the confusion on that one.

What we differ on is who was the correct person to start the ball rolling on getting the troops deployed. I believe it had to start with the Governor - and that is as it should be.

WDW Betsy, I see your point and can appreciate it.

[Florida_Mom]

What the Heck, I completely agree with you on the evacuation plans. Completely!!! They utterly failed the thousands of people left in NO. My point was about the notion of personal responsibility. And it wasn't Jeb that ordered evacuations, it was local authorities.

Why DOD? Really, I don't know...I didn't know it myself until I learned about it today on MSNBC. Perhaps local authorities are supposed to work with DOD on evacuation plans because in situations like this the military has to work to assist in getting people out and getting supplies in.

Is there a date when the local authorities asked for federal help? Because I've heard it was the day before when they started the evacuations, I've heard it was day after, I heard the mayor scream about it on the news on Wednesday.

Here are some things I don't understand...and I'm not being sarcastic, I'm not blaming, I just truly don't get this:

1) I saw the FEMA director interviewed on Sunday night before the storm hit. He sounded confident and sure about the relief effort and said that they had "staging areas" set up in Atlanta, etc, so that they could get to the areas immediately. As of Thursday, there were still no FEMA workers in the superdome. Why???

2) The hospital ship...I think it's the Navy's??? didn't leave from Baltimore until TODAY? Why??

3) There hasn't been any attempt (that I'm aware of) to at least get refugees to sign their names or to establish any kind of registry so people who got split up from their families would have some way of eventually finding out where their loved ones are.

4) Even the drug companies have offered to supply medication to the refugees but as of last night were still waiting to get a list from FEMA. I know it would take a while to get an exact list, but knowing that a certain percentage of our population uses insulin and other commonly used meds, couldn't that be provided ahead of a list?

[GoldenGate]

A standing ovation for this post!!!!!!

I think we Americans would have forgiven Bush showing a little initiative and acting without going trough all the correct channels!

I think he woukld have done just that for rich white folks stranded on thr roofs of their million dollar homes.


::yes::

[Fiona's Shrek]

When I was 17 yo, people like you guys were bashing the President, because we were helping another country fight for their freedom. You protested that action, even though there were young men like myself, who volunteered to fight for that just cause, and die for it. 9/11 was a wake up call for us again, and as before, you bashed the President for taking the action he did. As for myself, when it came time to help my country, I was there once again to volunteer, at age 53. I joined Homeland Security to help keep our skies safe. I am now 57yo, and here you are again bashing the President, for being too slow to act. The President is just one man. He does not have a magic wand to wave. He does however, have two houses to push things through, which sometimes may take a little time because of opposing sides dragging their feet. So if you want miracles to happen, stop complaining and do something. Like PRAYING for the MAN in the Presidental Office.

[Albertan mom]

When I was 17 yo, people like you guys were bashing the President, because we were helping another country fight for their freedom. You protested that action, even though there were young men like myself, who volunteered to fight for that just cause, and die for it. 9/11 was a wake up call for us again, and as before, you bashed the President for taking the action he did. As for myself, when it came time to help my country, I was there once again to volunteer, at age 53. I joined Homeland Security to help keep our skies safe. I am now 57yo, and here you are again bashing the President, for being too slow to act. The President is just one man. He does not have a magic wand to wave. He does however, have two houses to push things through, which sometimes may take a little time because of opposing sides dragging their feet. So if you want miracles to happen, stop complaining and do something. Like PRAYING for the MAN in the Presidental Office.

AMEN BROTHER!!!

[cati]

When I was 17 yo, people like you guys were bashing the President, because we were helping another country fight for their freedom. You protested that action, even though there were young men like myself, who volunteered to fight for that just cause, and die for it. 9/11 was a wake up call for us again, and as before, you bashed the President for taking the action he did. As for myself, when it came time to help my country, I was there once again to volunteer, at age 53. I joined Homeland Security to help keep our skies safe. I am now 57yo, and here you are again bashing the President, for being too slow to act. The President is just one man. He does not have a magic wand to wave. He does however, have two houses to push things through, which sometimes may take a little time because of opposing sides dragging their feet. So if you want miracles to happen, stop complaining and do something. Like PRAYING for the MAN in the Presidental Office.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[profdsny]

Get behind someone who ihad done a bad job on this all week? Why is that? What has he done here to earn support? Don't give me all this congress draging their feet stuff. Sunday night before he went to bed in Crawford, the vacation capital of the world, he could have had as many thousand military troops, airforce planes, and navy ships on stand-by, ready to go at a moment's notice to head that way. He could have had the head of FEMA on the way down there. He could have done a hundred things. And none of them were done. Sorry, but I don't see supporting someone who continues to do a bad job. Then blaming it on partisan politics. Anyone on these boards could have told you what was going to happen down there. The head of FEMA was on CNN yesterday morning and said they had just found out that there were people stranded in the convention center. Not our government at their proudist moment. And the buck stops at the oval office.

[jcemom]

One of the things that makes living in America so desirable is our freedom to disagree with the President if we so choose. ;) Choosing to live in America does not by any means obligate us to agree with, support, or respect our President's decisions.

Home of the Free...Land of the Brave

Our servicemen and women are certainly brave. They keep our country free. Living in a free country, we have the right to disagree with our president if we should choose to do so. That's what it means to live here. I don't see how someone feeling that Bush handled Katrina's devastation poorly conveys disrespect of our country's soldiers. Sorry if that makes me dense... :confused3

[totalia]

And for the record this is President TEDDY Roosevelt (REPUBLICAN!) !!! :)
And brilliantly, intelligently said.

[totalia]

Maybe they need to add an amendment that if the media is showing BABIES DYING OF THIRST the federal government could step in and help the situation WITHOUT being asked.
*nods* Totally agree.

[totalia]

If you are going to blindly support a person just because they are in a position of authority the why bother with democracy at all?

[Kitcat]

So all you Bush bashers do you think he wanted all those people to die? Do you think he wanted all that destruction? Do you think he gets his rocks off to see people suffering? If a MANDATORY EVACUATION was ordered and the poorer folks had no way of getting out why didn't the mayor and governer help their people? Why didn't they get the buses and get their people the hell out of there?? Why is it always the Presidents fault? So many people hate him he will never ever do anything right. He will always get blamed.

[totalia]

I don't think he wanted them to die. I think he's just too incompetant to respond properly to an emergency situation. Instead, he chose to cut birthday cake with McCain.

He did this to himself. No one did it to him. Its his response to this situation thats the problem.

He did it to himself. And he's shown he isn't a leader in any way.

[Goofyzgurl]

When I was 17 yo, people like you guys were bashing the President, because we were helping another country fight for their freedom. You protested that action, even though there were young men like myself, who volunteered to fight for that just cause, and die for it. 9/11 was a wake up call for us again, and as before, you bashed the President for taking the action he did. As for myself, when it came time to help my country, I was there once again to volunteer, at age 53. I joined Homeland Security to help keep our skies safe. I am now 57yo, and here you are again bashing the President, for being too slow to act. The President is just one man. He does not have a magic wand to wave. He does however, have two houses to push things through, which sometimes may take a little time because of opposing sides dragging their feet. So if you want miracles to happen, stop complaining and do something. Like PRAYING for the MAN in the Presidental Office.

I'd rather pray for those who are in real need, the people who are suffering in NO and Mississippi.

[jcemom]

So all you Bush bashers do you think he wanted all those people to die? Do you think he wanted all that destruction? Do you think he gets his rocks off to see people suffering?No, not at all. I think I said earlier in this thread that I do not think he is a bad person at all. I think he's a good person. I just don't think he's a good President.

[Viking]

Um, why is it that his "manipulations" include things he did not have the authority to do? Wow, is he that smart? I like this, he is so incompetant that he isn't able to do someone elses job as well. That is what I call bashing.

As for Clinton, I was using him as an example. If you actually read what I wrote, I didn't say one bad thing about Clinton. But, hey if you are able to use it to distract from you not knowing what you are talking about here, thats ok.

I don't mean that as a total slam. You are from another country, our government works different than yours. People here are blaming Bush because he didn't do something he wasn't supposed to do. There have been some other things that have been discussed, such as his FEMA director choice, but the argument I am saying has no foundation is that it wasn't his responsibility nor did he have the authority, nor should he have. That is a nuance of our government, it keeps our federal government in check.

And, if I was deflecting by bringing in Clinton, even though I didn't criticize him, what were you doing by bringing in Iraq in a thread about a natural disaster?

Why bringing Iraq into that thread: Because Bush's harebrained -and botched up- campaign in Iraq drained a lot of money which would have been needed for example to prepare NO for a storm like this. His administration cut the funding for maintainance and updating the dike/levee system considerably, because he needed the money for his war.
And in other aspects his handling of the war and Katrina are very similar: Has has no plan, no clue what he is doing.

And finally: 'Smart' is the last thing I would associate with Bush. :rolleyes:

[Viking]

When I was 17 yo, people like you guys were bashing the President, because we were helping another country fight for their freedom. You protested that action, even though there were young men like myself, who volunteered to fight for that just cause, and die for it. 9/11 was a wake up call for us again, and as before, you bashed the President for taking the action he did. As for myself, when it came time to help my country, I was there once again to volunteer, at age 53. I joined Homeland Security to help keep our skies safe. I am now 57yo, and here you are again bashing the President, for being too slow to act. The President is just one man. He does not have a magic wand to wave. He does however, have two houses to push things through, which sometimes may take a little time because of opposing sides dragging their feet. So if you want miracles to happen, stop complaining and do something. Like PRAYING for the MAN in the Presidental Office.

Obviously you inhaled too much Agent Orange in the 70ies. :teeth:
But seeing that this is your first post, I suspect that you're just another coward who hasn't got the ball to post under his original screenname.

[Amyality]

When I was 17 yo, people like you guys were bashing the President, because we were helping another country fight for their freedom. You protested that action, even though there were young men like myself, who volunteered to fight for that just cause, and die for it. 9/11 was a wake up call for us again, and as before, you bashed the President for taking the action he did. As for myself, when it came time to help my country, I was there once again to volunteer, at age 53. I joined Homeland Security to help keep our skies safe. I am now 57yo, and here you are again bashing the President, for being too slow to act. The President is just one man. He does not have a magic wand to wave. He does however, have two houses to push things through, which sometimes may take a little time because of opposing sides dragging their feet. So if you want miracles to happen, stop complaining and do something. Like PRAYING for the MAN in the Presidental Office.

YES! Thank you for joining this disgussion. Well, spoken!

[NewEnglandDisney]

IHe is doing all he can.


If that's the case, he doesn't have the qualifications for the job.

In the real world, when you cannot perform the function of your job, you are replaced.

We impeached Bill Clinton for not telling us he had oral sex.

The crimes this President has committed make that look as innocuous as...well, lying about having sex.

N.E.D.

[NewEnglandDisney]

I don't think he wanted them to die. I think he's just too incompetant to respond properly to an emergency situation. Instead, he chose to cut birthday cake with McCain.

He did this to himself. No one did it to him. Its his response to this situation thats the problem.

He did it to himself. And he's shown he isn't a leader in any way.

You can't put it any more simply than that. He already had 41% approval rating before this - the wheels of the bus are just falling off in another direction this week.

People try to twist it, just like his cronies always do.

"If you are against the war, you don't support our troops!"

Well, I was under the impression that not wanting them to die is supporting them more than sending them to kill people and possibly die themselves, yet somehow I'm not the one supporting the troops.

We blame the administration, which is led by the president, for the molasses RESPONSE to this hurricane, and now we are somehow blaming him for the hurricane itself.

The base of ALL of this is that people believe what they want to believe - whatever gets them through the night. Logic be darned.

N.E.D.

[NewEnglandDisney]

Maybe they need to add an amendment that if the media is showing BABIES DYING OF THIRST the federal government could step in and help the situation WITHOUT being asked.

Bravo.

I just printed that out and shared it with the whole office - you just got about a dozen virtual high-fives.

N.E.D.

[crazyme5kids]

I will not support Bush. Personally I think he should be impeached. Just my opinion.

[Fiona's Shrek]

I'd rather pray for those who are in real need, the people who are suffering in NO and Mississippi.

NOT praying for the man leading our country, whoever he may be, is FOOLISH. He needs God's guidance in making the decisions that come through the oval office. There is no reason we cannot pray for ALL . Unless it hinders your time.

[NewEnglandDisney]

I will not support Bush. Personally I think he should be impeached. Just my opinion.

That's what we did to Bill Clinton because he lied about having oral sex.

Am I the only one who wishes we lived back in a time where that was the biggest problem facing America?

N.E.D.

[Robinrs]

But seeing that this is your first post, I suspect that you're just another coward who hasn't got the ball to post under his original screenname.

I was curious about this too. I would not call him a coward, but rather a very shrewd person who does not want to be be flamed under his original screenname for years afterwards, which can happen.

BTW, I grew up in the same generations and was on the other side. I am blessed to live in a country where I CAN say and feel and do anything that is lawful and speaking my mind for what I see is WRONG is one of them. I have never, thanks to my Mom's leadership, given any respect blindly to someone I don't feel deserves it. My mind is MINE, I have never been one to follow just 'cause, and just as sure as you will never change your ways due to any of MY slogans, we cannot and will not change due to the "love it or leave it" slogan I tolerated for years and ignored because this is MY HOME, too, and I have just as much right as you to feel and say what I want.

I do pray daily for the President AND the people in dire need. I pray that after this situation America will have a sense of purpose and priority that includes the least of these that live HERE.

[crazyme5kids]

Bill Clinton was not impeached, they tried but it didn't happen. I guess lots of people decided oral sex wasn't an impeacable act. Lying about under oath, wasn't right, but put it into perpective. Getting a blow job only affected Clinton and Monica. Bush's actions have affected millions of people.

[Fiona's Shrek]

Obviously you inhaled too much Agent Orange in the 70ies. :teeth:
But seeing that this is your first post, I suspect that you're just another coward who hasn't got the ball to post under his original screenname.

The cowards are those who use forums like this to push their hatred for a Republican President they do not want in office. Instead of spending your time trying to convince those of us who use this site for pleasure- wanting to see what's going on with others until our WDW trips...and hear from those who are there during this disaster and seeing how we can help those caught up in Katrina's aftermath, maybe you should consider toning down your acusations and hatred. We've heard it and enough is enough! Start a thread for all you Bush haters and have fun bashing him there, while the rest of us do what we can , including praying for our President. And in case it makes any difference, I did NOT vote for Bush in his first term. I am a Massachusetts Democrat. But I vote for the Man, and his character when I nominate a President. I may not like everything Bush does, but he is MY President. I know he starts his days off with prayer, wherever he is, so if my prayers for can help him, by ALL means, I will lend them. President Kennedy once said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". What have YOU done for your country lately? :confused3

[Fiona's Shrek]

I was curious about this too. I would not call him a coward, but rather a very shrewd person who does not want to be be flamed under his original screenname for years afterwards, which can happen..

Because Fiona Loves Shrek is my DW. And I don't normally get involved in chat sessions, but you guys stirred the patriotism in me! Like I said, start your own thread so we'll stop getting e-mails about how much YOU hate the President!!!!

[crazyme5kids]

I don't hate Bush, how can I hate someone I don't know. He may very well be a nice guy. I don't like his policies and his handling of our country. Sorry it upsets you that some Americans voice their opinions unfavorably about Bush the President.
Don't forget some of the things that our country was founded on: Freedom of religon, freedom of the press and freedom of speech. Some of our countries greatess achievements were a result of these freedoms.

[NewEnglandDisney]

Because Fiona Loves Shrek is my DW. And I don't normally get involved in chat sessions, but you guys stirred the patriotism in me! Like I said, start your own thread so we'll stop getting e-mails about how much YOU hate the President!!!!

See, but this is exactly the point.

Why do people get as upset as they do?

Because people like yourself think it's "unpatriotic" to disagree with the way the country is run.

If you understood what patriotism meant, you'd know that questioning leadership you don't agree with is THE most patriotic thing you can do. Trying to stifle people like you are here is very unpatriotic - but you are so blinded by...whatever attracts you to the current regime that irony is certainly lost in your mind, I am sure.

N.E.D.

[wvrevy]

I love how it's always about how anybody criticising in doing it out of "hate" for Bush. I don't hate the man. I hate everything he stands for, and I view him as nothing more than an overpriveleged frat boy cheerleader that never grew up and learned to handle responsibility. But "hate" him ? Hardly. More like "pity".

[auntpolly]

I was actually dreaming about this last night.

I don't blame Bush for the hurricane. I don't know that it would have played out differently with a different president (I think it would have, but I won't even argue that right now.) There's blame for so many people that apportioning it right now is not constructive. Of course it wans't all his fault!! That isn't the point!!!!

I wasn't at all angry with him after 9/11, in fact, I was willing to get on board with thim (for a time).

But it was the way he behaved through this that was, for me, the straw that broke the camel's back.No surprise to anyone that I've never liked him, but I'm just beside myself this time. He was doing stuff behind the scenes while he was yucking it up on vacation? You really want us to buy that? ANd more importantly, it's OK with you, his lack of apparent attention before complete disaster??

I want a president who is out there, over the weekend, showing us that our government will see us through that storm. Shows us that it has his full attention. But he's never been like this, so what did I expect?

For those of you that are sick of this kind of "bashing", I wish you could get it through your heads that this is not said out of mean spiritedness, but out of love for my country and complete despair for our government. I'm not having any fun here, just so you know.

[Lebjwb]

To answer the OP.

Like hell we do.

[crazyme5kids]

It is wrong for people to send you e-mails based upon your views, and they should stop. I get tons of unwanted e-mails, I just delete them and don't even open them. Sometimes I know who the e-mail is from but don't feel like reading it because I have an idea about what the contents might be. I hit the delet button. It's a great tool!

[Lebjwb]

The cowards are those who use forums like this to push their hatred for a Republican President they do not want in office. Instead of spending your time trying to convince those of us who use this site for pleasure- wanting to see what's going on with others until our WDW trips...and hear from those who are there during this disaster and seeing how we can help those caught up in Katrina's aftermath, maybe you should consider toning down your acusations and hatred. We've heard it and enough is enough! Start a thread for all you Bush haters and have fun bashing him there, while the rest of us do what we can , including praying for our President. And in case it makes any difference, I did NOT vote for Bush in his first term. I am a Massachusetts Democrat. But I vote for the Man, and his character when I nominate a President. I may not like everything Bush does, but he is MY President. I know he starts his days off with prayer, wherever he is, so if my prayers for can help him, by ALL means, I will lend them. President Kennedy once said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". What have YOU done for your country lately? :confused3

I'm real happy for you. But if you don't like what people have to say then "change the channel".

The rest of us will continue to excercise our first amendment rights.

How's that for patriotic? Oh BTW, what you advocate is fascism. :goodvibes :sunny: :wave2:

[littlestar]

Everybody, democrat and republican, will share blame for not doing this fast enough or not doing that fast enough when history looks back on this. I'm sure the mayor of New Orleans will be questioned about why the shelters didn't have more water and food supplys to begin with. Or why the governor didn't do more. And of course, the president. I heard one New Orleans elderly man sitting in the 2nd floor of his flooded house say "I want to make a bridge out of all the bureaucrats" and he started listing the mayor and on up.

I am going to pay more attention to what my local government does from now on, I'll tell you that. And I'm also going to pay more attention to the environment and development in my area where I live that can cause flooding problems.

[Fiona's Shrek]

I'm real happy for you. But if you don't like what people have to say then "change the channel".

The rest of us will continue to excercise our first amendment rights.

How's that for patriotic? Oh BTW, what you advocate is fascism. :goodvibes :sunny: :wave2:

I just did. I changed my e-mail settings so I won't receive anymore of your e-mails. Unfortunately though, now I won't receive e-mail from other threads I AM interested in! GOODBYE! :wave:

[katmandad]

Since when is questioning the actions of the government or our leaders unpatriotic? Questioning, getting involved and holding the government accoutable is the ultimate form of patriotism. There is a reason why free speech was given to us as the 1st admendment. Like any president, regardless of their party, Bush has done some things well and others not as well. But to mindlessly follow him and agree with everything his administration says and does is to me what is unpatriotic. Yes, he won the election, but with only a slight majority. And to accuse those who disagrees with him as unpatriotic is wrong. I do find it ironic that this thread was started by a Canadian, when relations between our two countries have been strained during the Bush years, and Canada did not support Bush on Iraq.

[Lebjwb]

I just did. I changed my e-mail settings so I won't receive anymore of your e-mails. Unfortunately though, now I won't receive e-mail from other threads I AM interested in! GOODBYE! :wave:

You're a strange person...

I've never emailed you in my life.

[mickeyfan2]

For all of you who hate the president so much I have a question.

Why are you still here? It is a free country and you can leave anytime that you want.

[wvrevy]

For all of you who hate the president so much I have a question.

Why are you still here? It is a free country and you can leave anytime that you want.

Which part of "It's not about hating the man" did you not understand ?

And which part of "free country" means that you shouldn't question those in authority ?

[Lebjwb]

Since when is questioning the actions of the government or our leaders unpatriotic? Questioning, getting involved and holding the government accoutable is the ultimate form of patriotism. There is a reason why free speech was given to us as the 1st admendment. Like any president, regardless of their party, Bush has done some things well and others not as well. But to mindlessly follow him and agree with everything his administration says and does is to me what is unpatriotic. Yes, he won the election, but with only a slight majority. And to accuse those who disagrees with him as unpatriotic is wrong. I do find it ironic that this thread was started by a Canadian, when relations between our two countries have been strained during the Bush years, and Canada did not support Bush on Iraq.

Sadly there is a portion in this country that would like to put a muzzle on others. They do not posses the basic concept of what it is to be an American. Their views are more in line with a dictatorship.


And they call us unpatriotic?

[mickeyfan2]

Respect has to be EARNED.

Clinton never earned my repect from a personal level, BUT I did repect him as my president.

[crazyme5kids]

Oh the old like it or leave it theory. I didn't see a mass exodus when Clinton was president, so I don't think that there will be a mass exodus while Bush is president. Are you going to leave if you hate whoever becomes the next president?

[Fiona's Shrek]

For all of you who hate the president so much I have a question.

Why are you still here? It is a free country and you can leave anytime that you want.

I like your thoughts. Does anyone have the nerve to kill this thread? :confused3

[Puffy2]

Its really sad that some people hate George Bush so much, they will use every opportunity they can to bash him. Even at the expense of thousands of dead and homeless in the wake of a major natural disaster..

You have got to be kidding me. If that man (Bush) had lowered his helicoper into the dome among "those homeless" they would have eaten him alive - seeing that they hadn't had food or water for FOUR days!

He (and his impotent administration) couldn't even manage an air drop of food water and medical supplies for FOUR DAYS??? And this is America? He had the entire United States Military and every American organization at his finger tips and THIS is the best he could do for those people?

But he managed to air lift every single Saudi friend out of the US within hours after 9/11. We know where his administrations priorities are and the people of Lousinana know where they are and hopefully the thinking people of the US will remember come the next elections.

[Lebjwb]

Clinton never earned my repect from a personal level, BUT I did repect him as my president.


Good for you.

Bu$h never earned my respect from a personal level, and I DON'T respect him as my President.

See how that works?

[crazyme5kids]

I have the nerve! I'm surprised I didn't kill it already after my first post since I have been known to be a bonafid thread killer :rotfl: !!!

[mickeyfan2]

Which part of "It's not about hating the man" did you not understand ?

And which part of "free country" means that you shouldn't question those in authority ?

Aparently you should not read any of my comments because I keep confusing you. I told you on another thread I did not want to argue with you. It is obvious that we see everything 180 degrees apart.

[mickeyfan2]

Good for you.

Bu$h never earned my respect from a personal level, and I DON'T respect him as my President.

See how that works?

It doesn't.

[mickeyfan2]

Oh the old like it or leave it theory. I didn't see a mass exodus when Clinton was president, so I don't think that there will be a mass exodus while Bush is president. Are you going to leave if you hate whoever becomes the next president?

I did not leave then and would not have left if Gore had won either.

[wvrevy]

Aparently you should not read any of my comments because I keep confusing you. I told you on another thread I did not want to argue with you. It is obvious that we see everything 180 degrees apart.
It's also obvious that you have no concept of what it means to have free speech. If all that was allowed were comments of support, how, exactly, would that be "free" ?

And if you're confusing, perhaps you should try speaking more clearly instead of parroting tired lines like "love it or leave it." I hate to tell you, but I - and others that are critical of the imbecile in chief - do love this country. That's the reason that we don't want to see it stumble under the inept leadership of an overpriveleged frat boy.

[auntpolly]

For all of you who hate the president so much I have a question.

Why are you still here? It is a free country and you can leave anytime that you want.

LOL, thanks! I needed a good laugh!

It's good to know some of the old "Nixon, love it or leave it crowd is still alive and kickin'!!!!

Sorry, I'm an American just like you and I'm staying and I've just gotten started with complaining about the president because, frankly, I'd gotten a bit complacent -- I'd gotten weary of fighting and lost hope.

Well, I'm all fired up again! God bless America!!!!
:wave:

[LoraJ]

For all of you who hate the president so much I have a question.

Why are you still here? It is a free country and you can leave anytime that you want.


I am here because I love my country, my state and my city. I am here doing whatever I can to stop this administration from turning this country into a dictatorship. It shocks me how many of you would be so happy if it turned into that. No checks and balances anywhere. They can do what they want and you sit there complacent waving your flags as though that's a good thing.

[chobie]

The cowards are those who use forums like this to push their hatred for a Republican President they do not want in office. Instead of spending your time trying to convince those of us who use this site for pleasure- wanting to see what's going on with others until our WDW trips...and hear from those who are there during this disaster and seeing how we can help those caught up in Katrina's aftermath, maybe you should consider toning down your acusations and hatred. We've heard it and enough is enough! Start a thread for all you Bush haters and have fun bashing him there, while the rest of us do what we can , including praying for our President. And in case it makes any difference, I did NOT vote for Bush in his first term. I am a Massachusetts Democrat. But I vote for the Man, and his character when I nominate a President. I may not like everything Bush does, but he is MY President. I know he starts his days off with prayer, wherever he is, so if my prayers for can help him, by ALL means, I will lend them. President Kennedy once said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". What have YOU done for your country lately? :confused3


Why are you wasting you time calling people names who disagree with you? How is that doing anything for you country? Aren't you wasting precious praying time calling people who disagree with your view of Bush cowards?

[treesinger]

I am here because I love my country, my state and my city. I am here doing whatever I can to stop this administration from turning this country into a dictatorship. It shocks me how many of you would be so happy if it turned into that. No checks and balances anywhere. They can do what they want and you sit there complacent waving your flags as though that's a good thing.
Oh for heaven's sake! No one has to like the President or respect him to be an American. I'm sure sometime in my life the shoe will be on the other foot and I'll be just as pissed off as the anti-Bushies are.

And, I'm sure this will floor a couple of you. I am now actually in agreement that Bush's response was inadequate. It was obvious how absolute the damage was in NO and Mississippi. He should have sent too many troops rather than too few. It is better to send troops home later because they weren't needed rather than promise to send more in on Saturday because too few were sent. In regards to American lives, it is better to err on the side of caution and the President failed to do that.

[auntpolly]

Does it occur to any of you democrats that a few Republicans around here were more upset with the stain on Ms. Lewinski's dress than of Bush's inattention to this disaster? :rolleyes1 Just wonderin'!

[Puffy2]

Just wondering, if Hitler was your president would you "support" him too? Just because someone is democratically elected doesn't make them a good leader.

[LoraJ]

Oh for heaven's sake! No one has to like the President or respect him to be an American. I'm sure sometime in my life the shoe will be on the other foot and I'll be just as pissed off as the anti-Bushies are.

And, I'm sure this will floor a couple of you. I am now actually in agreement that Bush's response was inadequate. It was obvious how absolute the damage was in NO and Mississippi. He should have sent too many troops rather than too few. It is better to send troops home later because they weren't needed rather than promise to send more in on Saturday because too few were sent. In regards to American lives, it is better to err on the side of caution and the President failed to do that.

My response wasn't towards you, but the guy who said I should leave the country because I am criticizing the administration. ;)

[treesinger]

Funny, I don't see it as half as bad. Us conservatives thought we won the lottery when Bush was reelected with a Rep Congress. Alas, the Reps can barely decide on anything together it seems, the agenda is frozen in time, the deficit is still way too deep for my tastes...the only thing I can hope for is that John Roberts is as conservative as I think he is and the Rehnquist's replacement is conservative enough for my tastes. Other than that and my not quite wholehearted support of the war, Bush has been a disappointment.

If Bush is our King, then his loyal subjects, for the most part, want more answers.

[WOW]

Very well said!!!! Let's focus on the disaster. As someone on this board pointed out that we need to have a Canadian remind us of having respect for our President. How sad is that?

[treesinger]

My response wasn't towards you, but the guy who said I should leave the country because I am criticizing the administration.


Oh I know, I was just adding my :2cents:

[treesinger]

Very well said!!!! Let's focus on the disaster. As someone on this board pointed out that we need to have a Canadian remind us of having respect for our President. How sad is that?
Now I don't have a problem with someone calling the President to task. It is when they are disrespectful and attacking about it that I take exception.

[crazyme5kids]

hmmm.... if I add my 2 cents to your 2 cents and others keep adding their 2 cents, will we be able to solve the deficit problem in our life time? :rolleyes1

Sorry I couldn't resist.

[shortbun]

You know, I think you are absolutely right, he didn't win which means

BUSH/CHENEY 2008!!

Hey, I wanna thank you and all the rest of you who voted for Bush. You have given us a perfect fool to kick around. It makes us feel better to have the arrogant puffed chest president we do so we KNOW for certain who to blame when the cabinet he appointed fails to do their jobs. Certainly, no confusion regarding "who's the man!" and how "hard it is to be president!" It's so obvious how awfully hard it must be for George. Poor George. Support the President? Yeah, right!!! :rolleyes: He's hardly worthy.

[wvrevy]

Hey, I wanna thank you and all the rest of you who voted for Bush. You have given us a perfect fool to kick around. It makes us feel better to have the arrogant puffed chest president we do so we KNOW for certain who to blame when the cabinet he appointed fails to do their jobs. Certainly, no confusion regarding "who's the man!" and how "hard it is to be president!" It's so obvious how awfully hard it must be for George. Poor George. Support the President? Yeah, right!!! :rolleyes: He's hardly worthy.

Did you really have to quote that post ? :scared1: :scared: :scared1: :scared: :scared1: Gives me nightmares !

;)

[shortbun]

Now I don't have a problem with someone calling the President to task. It is when they are disrespectful and attacking about it that I take exception.

Then you've got a BIG problem with me because THIS president deserves NO RESPECT!!! None, zero, zippo. the big nothing. nadda. Can't wait til his term is over. Color me counting the days. :hourglass Lookin' forward to sayin' "bye bye!, C Ya! and sayonara! " :wave2: I'll be delighted when the yokel is gone!!!! :banana: Embarrased he's the leader of my country!!! Doin' a dance just thinking about it! :cheer2:

[shortbun]

Did you really have to quote that post ? :scared1: :scared: :scared1: :scared: :scared1: Gives me nightmares !

;) Yeah, I know, sorry. It gave me quite a shock when I realized what I'd done too. Sorry! :drinking: Join me?

[Lebjwb]

It doesn't.


Too bad you don't get it.

It's called the first amendment.

Maybe you missed that part during your GED.

[sodaseller]

When I was 17 yo, people like you guys were bashing the President, because we were helping another country fight for their freedom. You protested that action, even though there were young men like myself, who volunteered to fight for that just cause, and die for it. 9/11 was a wake up call for us again, and as before, you bashed the President for taking the action he did. As for myself, when it came time to help my country, I was there once again to volunteer, at age 53. I joined Homeland Security to help keep our skies safe. I am now 57yo, and here you are again bashing the President, for being too slow to act. The President is just one man. He does not have a magic wand to wave. He does however, have two houses to push things through, which sometimes may take a little time because of opposing sides dragging their feet. So if you want miracles to happen, stop complaining and do something. Like PRAYING for the MAN in the Presidental Office.

Remmeber, nothing the "Left" has done or not done in terms of supporting the President in times of war comes within light years of what Tom DeLay and the Republicans in Congress did just seven years ago. Delay actually enigineered a vote in Congress to a tie that was a resolution for support for the Kosovo effort. Nothing you can claim now comes within light years of that.

But you Republicans are so typically ignorant of recent history and post attacks that make no sesne

[DisDuck]

Doesn't anyone here learn or know American History anymore? 'Bashing' the man not the office is/was a favorite past-time in this country since the beginning. Someone was tried to stop it, make it illegal to 'bash', but it ultimately failed. Can anyone guess what that was and who proposed it? Well, for the uninitiated here... It was called The Alien & Sedition Act and proposed by George Washington (YES THAT GEORGE WASHINGTON - Father of our Country). However, this madness did not last long and it was either repealed or declared unconstitional, that part I don't remember.

By the way as incompetent as the mayor and governor were/are, the governor actually requested on Aug. 28th that a Federal Disaster be called in a letter to the President citing all the relevant statues and listing the details of what parishes/counties needed the declaration. This document is in adobe format and a link was posted on another Katrina thread. This is why Bush DID declare the emergency on Sunday; however, that is all he did then left his vacation spa to eat cake (ala Marie Antoinette) and strum a guitar while New Orleans and the Gulf Coast was destroyed.

Any yet our neighbor to the north thinks that we should support Bush no matter what. How naive!!!

Finally, someone else in this thread quoted a passage from the NT, Romans, stating that G-D grants the authority and 'we' must obey. First of all, non-christians don't have that book and therefore it has no relevancy to them. Second, that chapter & verse was used to uphold the Devine Right of Kings. Again, some here need a brush up on Western History. So to accept that concept we should have Kings not Presidents. Thirdly, as some one else pointed out by strict/literal interpretation of that NT passage then Hitler was to be obeyed and not challenged. WOULD SOMEONE LIKE TO TELL THAT TO THE 6 MILLION JEWS WHO DIED UNDER HITLER. Then Bush has sinned and awaits punishment for deposing Hussein as his authority is granted by G-D.

[Bwalker]

I just read a good portion of this thread and just wanted to say ...

THANK YOU, Albertan Mom :cheer2: :cheer2: :cheer2: :cheer2:

Aloha,
Bwalker

[Viking]

Does it occur to any of you democrats that a few Republicans around here were more upset with the stain on Ms. Lewinski's dress than of Bush's inattention to this disaster? :rolleyes1 Just wonderin'!

As lying about sex is also considered being worse by them than lying about the reasons for a war, I'm not wondering :rolleyes:

[totalia]

That's what we did to Bill Clinton because he lied about having oral sex.

Am I the only one who wishes we lived back in a time where that was the biggest problem facing America?

N.E.D.
No. Believe me. I wish that was the worst thing in the world.

[totalia]

I don't hate Bush, how can I hate someone I don't know. He may very well be a nice guy. I don't like his policies and his handling of our country. Sorry it upsets you that some Americans voice their opinions unfavorably about Bush the President.
Don't forget some of the things that our country was founded on: Freedom of religon, freedom of the press and freedom of speech. Some of our countries greatess achievements were a result of these freedoms.
Well said.

[snowy76]

Hmmm...who do you think is going to drive them out of town? But the time it became apparant that many people needed to be evacuated, it was too late to round up drivers.*This* is the sad part IMO. Shouldn't a plan to evacuate people have been planned by local officials YEARS ago?? Like they didn't know NOLA is in a hurricane region?
Hopefully they will put together a comprehensive disaster response plan which will address this and many other issues. Anne ITA.

[totalia]

I was actually dreaming about this last night.

I don't blame Bush for the hurricane. I don't know that it would have played out differently with a different president (I think it would have, but I won't even argue that right now.) There's blame for so many people that apportioning it right now is not constructive. Of course it wans't all his fault!! That isn't the point!!!!

I wasn't at all angry with him after 9/11, in fact, I was willing to get on board with thim (for a time).

But it was the way he behaved through this that was, for me, the straw that broke the camel's back.No surprise to anyone that I've never liked him, but I'm just beside myself this time. He was doing stuff behind the scenes while he was yucking it up on vacation? You really want us to buy that? ANd more importantly, it's OK with you, his lack of apparent attention before complete disaster??

I want a president who is out there, over the weekend, showing us that our government will see us through that storm. Shows us that it has his full attention. But he's never been like this, so what did I expect?

For those of you that are sick of this kind of "bashing", I wish you could get it through your heads that this is not said out of mean spiritedness, but out of love for my country and complete despair for our government. I'm not having any fun here, just so you know.

*nods* I never liked Bush or his policies and thats true and obvious but now... now its something else. I don't hate the man. I think he's a fool and incompetant but I don't hate him. I think his incompetancy is dangerous for his country. And it's people.

[totalia]

It is wrong for people to send you e-mails based upon your views, and they should stop. I get tons of unwanted e-mails, I just delete them and don't even open them. Sometimes I know who the e-mail is from but don't feel like reading it because I have an idea about what the contents might be. I hit the delet button. It's a great tool!
I just delete junk mail anyway. I have all junk mail (in other words, anyone who isn't on my address list) set for automatic deletion once a day.

[Viking]

I did not leave then and would not have left if Gore had won either.
Strange,
I always thought Gore won :confused3 It was just the Supreme Court who didn't think so ;)

[totalia]

I'd like to remind the American posters that not all Canadians feel as the OP does. What she said was foolish and incredibly naive. Even Canadians don't support our Prime Minister just because he's got the position. You should hear the uproar there's been sometimes over something the PM has done.

Believe me, we are not blind and we are not silent. We are not pacifists and we do not just sit back and take whatever the new dumb leader has done if we don't like it.

Canadians remember Brian Mulroney? Did we just sit back silently while we felt he screwed over his country? Even Jean Chretien. Especially Pierre Trudeau (for those interested http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Trudeau )

We are not silent. We are not stupid. We don't support them just because they are in a position of authority.

Mind you, they also all did good things. But sometimes, the good outweighs the bad. And some are still remembered with disgust.

[Free4Life11]

I am here because I love my country, my state and my city. I am here doing whatever I can to stop this administration from turning this country into a dictatorship. It shocks me how many of you would be so happy if it turned into that. No checks and balances anywhere. They can do what they want and you sit there complacent waving your flags as though that's a good thing.

I couldn't say it any better.

[C.Ann]

As someone on this board pointed out that we need to have a Canadian remind us of having respect for our President. How sad is that?
-------------------------

Respect is earned - it's not a birth right - nor is it an elected right..

[Free4Life11]

Well, I'm all fired up again! God bless America!!!!
:wave:

Carefully auntpolly, only Bush supporters can say God Bless America! Remember? ;) I guess I'm no longer allowed to say it...:(

[Viking]

I'd like to remind the American posters that not all Canadians feel as the OP does. What she said was foolish and incredibly naive. Even Canadians don't support our Prime Minister just because he's got the position. You should hear the uproar there's been sometimes over something the PM has done.

Believe me, we are not blind and we are not silent. We are not pacifists and we do not just sit back and take whatever the new dumb leader has done if we don't like it.

Canadians remember Brian Mulroney? Did we just sit back silently while we felt he screwed over his country? Even Jean Chretien. Especially Pierre Trudeau (for those interested http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Trudeau )

We are not silent. We are not stupid. We don't support them just because they are in a position of authority.

Mind you, they also all did good things. But sometimes, the good outweighs the bad. And some are still remembered with disgust.

Hey,
I remember Trudeau: I nearly bust a gut when his ex-wife appeared in the Playboy scrubbing floors in lingerie just to pi** him off :rotfl2:

[Deb in IA]

Interestingly, Albertan mom, MOST Americans do.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1

[totalia]

Hey,
I remember Trudeau: I nearly bust a gut when his ex-wife appeared in the Playboy scrubbing floors in lingerie just to pi** him off :rotfl2:
lol. Now that part I didn't know. I was very young when he was in power. Maybe 4 years old. Funny.

[Saffron]

For all of you who hate the president so much I have a question.

Why are you still here? It is a free country and you can leave anytime that you want.

Hmmm. Let me think. :confused: Oh yeah, I got it! :teacher:

Last I looked George Bush wasn't my country, he was just a man; an elected official, but just a man, just a human being, not my country! :teacher:

I love my country and it will get back on track, sooner than later I hope. :cloud9:

[auntpolly]

Hmmm. Let me think. :confused: Oh yeah, I got it! :teacher:

Last I looked George Bush wasn't my country, he was just a man; an elected official, but just a man, just a human being, not my country! :teacher:

I love my country and it will get back on track, sooner than later I hope. :cloud9:

although......a lot of people left their country when there was another King George.....

http://home.twcny.rr.com/felicity/king_george2.jpg

[Albertan mom]

Interestingly, Albertan mom, MOST Americans do.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1

Very Interesting.... :)

[Florida_Mom]

Bill Clinton was not impeached, they tried but it didn't happen. I guess lots of people decided oral sex wasn't an impeacable act. Lying about under oath, wasn't right, but put it into perpective. Getting a blow job only affected Clinton and Monica. Bush's actions have affected millions of people.

Can I just clear up one teensy weensy thing? Sorry, not trying to be nitpicky... :)

Bill Clinton WAS impeached by the US House (the chamber which has the authority over impeachment.) Impeachment basically means that there is enough evidence against the person to warrant a trial in the Senate. It went to the Senate, and they did not convict. This is the same thing that happened to Andrew Johnson after the Civil War. So, two presidents impeached, none convicted, and one president has resigned.

[eeyore45]

Just food for thought...

Per CBS Sunday Morning commentary>

The whole world is watching. And once again, a day late and a dollar short, words of wisdom from our president: "This is a huge task that we're dealing with." "These are tough times." "Give cash."

Once again, he finds the photo op: Some black folks to hug, some white men in Mississippi to bond with. He flies over the messy parts of New Orleans, waves and leaves.

The president has put himself at risk by visiting the troops in Iraq, but didn't venture anywhere near the Superdome or the Convention Center, where thousands of victims, mostly black and poor, needed to see that he gave a damn.

©MMV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

[totalia]

Why doesn't that surprise me?

[Viking]

Ditto.
He's a joke :rolleyes:
We have a saying: 'Each country has the administration it deserves' but I don't know what America has done wrong to deserve an incompetent 'leader' like him :confused3

[Robinrs]

Interestingly, Albertan mom, MOST Americans do.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1

Too bad they couldn't poll the people who TRULY feel the brunt of this nightmare, only those sitting dry at their phones and computers like you and me. I'm willing to bet the numbers would change significantly.

[crazyme5kids]

Florida Mom, you're right, I stand corrected.

For those of us that took the term to mean he was convicted here is the definition from The 'Lectric Law Library's Lexicon on "Impeachment".

"Impeachment: (1) The process of calling something into question, as in "impeaching the testimony of a witness".

(2) The constitutional process whereby the House of Representatives may "impeach" (accuse of misconduct) high officers of the federal government for trial in the Senate.

See you can teach an old dog new tricks. Still to waste time and money on Bill Clinton having an affair was absurb. So many politicians have done the same thing (Rudy Giuliani included). In my mind not an impeachable offense.

Now Bush on the other hand...........

[WDWBetsy]

Too bad they couldn't poll the people who TRULY feel the brunt of this nightmare, only those sitting dry at their phones and computers like you and me. I'm willing to bet the numbers would change significantly.

I completely agree.

[barbeml]

Too bad they couldn't poll the people who TRULY feel the brunt of this nightmare, only those sitting dry at their phones and computers like you and me. I'm willing to bet the numbers would change significantly.

Exactly.

[peachgirl]

BUT I did repect him as my president.

Considering the shredding President Clinton took by the right every day he served in office, it's nothing short of amazing the number of those on the right who now claim to have shown him respect. Seems like a bit of revisionist history to me.

I've decided that every time I read a comment like this, I'm going to put a nickel in my piggy bank. I expect to have enough cash to go to WDW by next summer.

Coincidentally, I'm sitting here watching President Clinton speak right now. I forget sometimes what it's like to have a President who truly cares about people and who can actually speak when he doesn't have it written down for him. Sigh....

[Florida_Mom]

Florida Mom, you're right, I stand corrected.

For those of us that took the term to mean he was convicted here is the definition from The 'Lectric Law Library's Lexicon on "Impeachment".

"Impeachment: (1) The process of calling something into question, as in "impeaching the testimony of a witness".

(2) The constitutional process whereby the House of Representatives may "impeach" (accuse of misconduct) high officers of the federal government for trial in the Senate.

See you can teach an old dog new tricks. Still to waste time and money on Bill Clinton having an affair was absurb. So many politicians have done the same thing (Rudy Giuliani included). In my mind not an impeachable offense.

Now Bush on the other hand...........

Agree completely.

Edited to Add:

Survey USA tracking poll (a poll that tracks public opinion daily from 1200 respondents)

SurveyUSA. Daily tracking poll. 1,200 respondents each day.

Thinking just about the President of the United States ... Do you approve or disapprove of President Bush's response to Hurricane Katrina?

8/31 - 39% Disapprove, 48 % Approve
9/1 -- 44% Disapprove, 46% Approve
9/2 -- 53% Disapprove, 40% Approve
9/3 -- 53% Disapprove, 41% Approve
9/4 -- 55% Disapprove, 38% Approve

Here's the link if you want to see it:

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollTrack.aspx?g=2675ae86-5320-4923-bd03-adb3dfe54f6e&x=0,0

[What the Heck]

Considering the shredding President Clinton took by the right every day he served in office, it's nothing short of amazing the number of those on the right who now claim to have shown him respect. Seems like a bit of revisionist history to me.

I've decided that every time I read a comment like this, I'm going to put a nickel in my piggy bank. I expect to have enough cash to go to WDW by next summer.

Coincidentally, I'm sitting here watching President Clinton speak right now. I forget sometimes what it's like to have a President who truly cares about people and who can actually speak when he doesn't have it written down for him. Sigh....I, for one, didn't respect him after his first few months in office. Never will here me saying I did.

Clinton can speak well. He is a great politician. But a President who truly cares? I'm sure he cares about this, he is an American, not a monster. Normally, though, he just cared about himself.

Is Bush coming across as a leader in this? Not very well. He isn't the politician that Clinton is. Clinton would have known enough to stay out of the spotlight when Katrina came on land, and for the week following, unless it was related to Katrina.

The blame coming from everyone is coming from emotion of what we believe should have happened. We may be right, we may be wrong (just because I think I'm right doesn't mean I am). Now is not the time to establish what and who is wrong - we need facts, not emotions to know that. Who was responsible when? Not who we thought was in charge, but who was in charge of what and when? That should be the question. Instead we get polls of if President Bush is handling Katrina correctly. Whether we poll those who are in the middle of it or those who are safe from it, how many actually know what transpired when and why? How many actually know what was supposed to happen, when and why? Or should we just have a lynchmob go straight to Pennsylvania Avenue?

[crazyme5kids]

I'm sorry, but I can not for the life of me think that Bush did not know what was going on in NO. He could have, should have, at the very least, when it became apparent that people needed water and food (which is always the case after a disaster) given the order for air drops. There is no way anyone can convince me otherwise. I can understand the difficulties of evacuating the people, but not about air dropping food and water.

This is one time ignorance is not bliss. Shame on our President!

[yeartolate]

Its really sad that some people hate George Bush so much, they will use every opportunity they can to bash him. Even at the expense of thousands of dead and homeless in the wake of a major natural disaster.

There has always been nastiness between the two parties. But I believe it was taken up many notches with 8 years of unrelenting Clinton bashing. 80 million dollars worth of taxpayers money for prosecution of his sexual indiscretions. IMHO that was the true begining of this tasteless neener neener game that is American politics today.

This will never change until people grow up - someone has to stop first.

By the way....I remember many of the posts during the Clinton administration - "look at what YOUR" President has done now, etc. That kind of crap was distasteful then and it is disgraceful now. So the Republicans acting like they are the "angels' hardly flies.

[Joanne UK]

I know that Bush has visited the disaster areas over the last few days, but on the BBC News this evening they reported that he hasn't actually set foot in New Orleans yet. Surely this can't be true?

[t&csmom]

He is too scared to step foot in NO he is only going to to rural areas with the nice people.

[Lebjwb]

I, for one, didn't respect him after his first few months in office. Never will here me saying I did.

Clinton can speak well. He is a great politician. But a President who truly cares? I'm sure he cares about this, he is an American, not a monster. Normally, though, he just cared about himself.

Is Bush coming across as a leader in this? Not very well. He isn't the politician that Clinton is. Clinton would have known enough to stay out of the spotlight when Katrina came on land, and for the week following, unless it was related to Katrina.

The blame coming from everyone is coming from emotion of what we believe should have happened. We may be right, we may be wrong (just because I think I'm right doesn't mean I am). Now is not the time to establish what and who is wrong - we need facts, not emotions to know that. Who was responsible when? Not who we thought was in charge, but who was in charge of what and when? That should be the question. Instead we get polls of if President Bush is handling Katrina correctly. Whether we poll those who are in the middle of it or those who are safe from it, how many actually know what transpired when and why? How many actually know what was supposed to happen, when and why? Or should we just have a lynchmob go straight to Pennsylvania Avenue?


Or should we just have a lynchmob go straight to Pennsylvania Avenue?

Ask yourself this question: If Bu$h had gone into the Superdome, what would the people of NO done?

1)Cheered the conquering hero?

2)Ripped him to pieces limb from limb?

If you said #2 ask yourself why.

He certainly had the opportunity to BE the hero.

The lynch mob IS heading to Pennsylania Ave, only not with a rope.

This won't be just about Katrina either.

The chickens have come home to roost.

[Mickey's Monkey]

although......a lot of people left their country when there was another King George.....

http://home.twcny.rr.com/felicity/king_george2.jpg

The people that are *****ing about the way the Fed Govt responded are wanting Bush to perform as if he were King. Which is it you want? You want him to be President or King. If he were King he could have usurped local authority. Is that what you want him to do? Usurp your local leaders authority when he feels it necessary

[Mickey's Monkey]

Ask yourself this question: If Bu$h had gone into the Superdome, what would the people of NO done?

1)Cheered the conquering hero?

2)Ripped him to pieces limb from limb?

If you said #2 ask yourself why.

He certainly had the opportunity to BE the hero.

The lynch mob IS heading to Pennsylania Ave, only not with a rope.

This won't be just about Katrina either.

The chickens have come home to roost.

What problem would any of that solved for the people of N.O. ?

[Lebjwb]

another in a long list of ignorant comments regarding, the President. Do you have ANY idea what is involved in setting up a Presidential visit? I think the LAST thing the rescuers and other people in N.O. need to deal with is a Presidential visit. Has the lawlessness in that town been controlled. Sheesh!!

Again, what an ignorant comment.

Certainly it wouldn't take anymore time then setting up a visit to say...Biloxi. The people were roaming the streets with guns there too.

Who's ignorant?

[momof2inPA]

The people that are *****ing about the way the Fed Govt responded are wanting Bush to perform as if he were King. Which is it you want? You want him to be President or King. If he were King he could have usurped local authority. Is that what you want him to do? Usurp your local leaders authority when he feels it necessary

Y'all are just making excuses, and I don't get it. He and FEMA clearly failed, but we aren't blaming the people who voted for him. You certainly couldn't have foreseen his ineptitude in the face of a national natural disaster.

[Lebjwb]

What problem would any of that solved for the people of N.O. ?

You don't get it!

It's about leadership.

It's about backbone.

It's about being a president.

[Lebjwb]

Y'all are just making excuses, and I don't get it. He and FEMA clearly failed, but we aren't blaming the people who voted for him. You certainly couldn't have foreseen his ineptitude in the face of a national natural disaster.



That's exactly right....excuses. And it's futile trying to reason with someone who has on the blinders. It doesn't matter. The MAJORITY of Americans are quite aware of Bu$h's failures.

[Mickey's Monkey]

Certainly it wouldn't take anymore time then setting up a visit to say...Biloxi. The people were roaming the streets with guns there too.

Who's ignorant?

What is the level of rescue and relief effort going on in Biloxi vs. N.O.? What is the level of frustration in Biloxi vs. N.O.. Try not to be so myopic.

[Mickey's Monkey]

You don't get it!

It's about leadership.

It's about backbone.

It's about being a president.

Silly me. I thought is was about saving the people of N.O. How does symbolism bring in more supplies?

[Lebjwb]

Silly me. I thought is was about saving the people of N.O. How does symbolism bring in more supplies?


You really don't have a clue!

[Lebjwb]

What is the level of rescue and relief effort going on in Biloxi vs. N.O.? What is the level of frustration in Biloxi vs. N.O.. Try not to be so myopic.

Why don't you ask the residents of Biloxi and see what they would tell you!

I imagine their having a real picnic.

Bu$h has failed yet again but the kool-aid drinkers are blind.

[cati]

This will never change until people grow up - someone has to stop first.



So why dont you just stop all this ugly fighting!! No, democrats would rather place blame on every opportunity they can find. Sorry, but this was NO governor and mayor's fault. I am in politics ands law - have been for 20 years - the state agencies are the ones that are in control in this situation until they ask for assistance. If Bush had gone in there as some of you suggest then you would be wanting him to resign because he did not go through proper channels before doing so. If he had of declared Martial Law as some have suggested, he still would have had democrats and republicans saying he should not have done so.

This is a lose, lose, situation. He was bound to be critized no matter how he handled the situation.

[Mickey's Monkey]

Huh? This HAS to be a joke.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05vegas.html

NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 4 - A day after two police suicides and the abrupt resignations or desertions of up to 200 police officers, defiant city officials on Sunday began offering five-day vacations - and even trips to Las Vegas - to the police, firefighters and city emergency workers and their families.

The idea of paid vacations was raised by both Mayor C. Ray Nagin and senior police officials who said that their forces were exhausted and traumatized and that the arrival of the National Guard had made way for the officers to be relieved.

"I'm very concerned about individuals who have been here, particularly since the first few days, and have been through a lot of hardship," Mr. Nagin said in an interview.

He said most of the police officers, firefighters and emergency medical workers "are starting to show signs of very, very serious stress, and this is a way to give them time to reunite with their families."

Mr. Nagin, who has been demanding more federal assistance for days as his city struggled with despair, death and flooding, said he had asked the Federal Emergency Management Agency to pay for the trips but the agency said it could not. He said the city, therefore, would pay the costs.

He said he believed there were now enough National Guard members in the city to allow the police to take a break and still keep the city secure, and he brushed off questions about whether such a trip might look like a dereliction of duty.

"I'll take the heat on that," Mr. Nagin said. "We want to cater to them."

His words were seconded by the police superintendent, P. Edwin Compass III, in a separate interview. "When you go through something this devastating and traumatic," Mr. Compass said, "you've got to do something dramatic to jump-start the healing process."

The officials were planning to send 1,500 workers out in two shifts for five days each. They are sending them to Las Vegas because of the availability of hotel rooms and to Atlanta because many of them had relatives there.

They said that they were trying to get the first officers on their way on Monday and that the first stop would be Baton Rouge, about 75 miles from here.

There the officers will be given physical examinations and inoculations against possible infection from the polluted floodwaters, said Col. Terry Ebbert, the director of homeland security for the city, who has authority over the police and fire departments and other emergency services.

Then, Colonel Ebbert and other officials said, those who want to go to Las Vegas or Atlanta will be given air transportation and a hotel room. The city is reserving hotel rooms in Baton Rouge, they said, adding that the officers and firefighters may also be given the choice of flying to other cities.

Colonel Ebbert, the senior official running the recovery and rescue operation, and Mr. Compass both said that they planned to take a break as well, but probably for less than five days, and that they would continue to direct the recovery by telephone.

Officials said they expected the military, with much greater resources, to expand rescue work, begin cleaning up the city and take the first steps toward reconstruction.

W. J. Riley, the deputy superintendent of police, said that by late Sunday afternoon more than 2,900 National Guard members and law enforcement officers from around the country were operating in New Orleans. By early evening, Mr. Riley said, the advance units of a 2,200-person force from the 82nd Airborne Division had landed.

Several thousand more soldiers were expected, including members of the First Cavalry Division.

Reinforcements are also expected for the fire department. Senior firefighters, who have been forced to ignore some fires and to try merely to keep the worst blazes from spreading, said that several hundred firefighters with fire engines and radio equipment were heading for New Orleans from departments around the country.

New Orleans officials said they would remain in charge. Mr. Riley, who has been on the police force for 24 years, will oversee the police department in the superintendent's absence.

"We haven't turned over control of the city," Colonel Ebbert said.

Mr. Riley said that 40 percent of the city's force of about 1,200 officers would remain at their posts while the others were on leave. When the first group returns, Mr. Riley said, those who stayed behind will get a break.

Deputy Fire Chief Joseph Matthews, who is also the director of the city's Office of Emergency Preparedness, said officials viewed the time off for their security forces as essential. "We've been at this six days and we need to give our people a break," he said.


Did Rudy offer paid vacations to the police and firefighters of NYC a week after 9/11? Just curious.

And what funds are going to be used to fund these gambling boondoggles?

Sure, there is absolutely the need to rotate out your people, but I'm not sure an all expense paid gambling trip to Vegas while those rotated in to deal with the mess is the right solution.

Don't get me wrong. I believe the workers need a break, but not at taxpayers expense. Particularly now.

The Mayor of N.O. is an incompetent moron. The bulk of this fiasco should sit on his shoulders. No one elses.

[Mickey's Monkey]

Why don't you ask the residents of Biloxi and see what they would tell you!

I imagine their having a real picnic.

Bu$h has failed yet again but the kool-aid drinkers are blind.

Well, you seemed to have as much insight as they do. So, enlighten me, oh wise one.

[Mickey's Monkey]

You really don't have a clue!

I guess note. So, clue me in. How would a visit from the President give the people of N.O. the supplies, care, and relief that they need. Would the money and manpower necessary to pull of a symbolic Presidential visit be better spent on relief efforts. I thought that was your major complaint. That the relief didn't come fast enough or at the right level. So, again, clue me in. How would a Presidential visit give the people of N.O the relief they so desparately need. I'm clueless, remember. So, fill me in. A Presidential visit saves more people... how?

[momof2inPA]

Huh?
And what funds are going to be used to fund these gambling boondoggles?

Sure, there is absolutely the need to rotate out your people, but I'm not sure an all expense paid gambling trip to Vegas while those rotated in to deal with the mess is the right solution.

So, your problem is with them going to Vegas...

I think it's a dumb idea and, at best, pre-mature, but I'm sure they'll need a vacation when it's all over, and Vegas isn't so bad. There isn't just gambling. There are shows and Ceasar's Palace.

[peachgirl]

Sure, there is absolutely the need to rotate out your people, but I'm not sure an all expense paid gambling trip to Vegas while those rotated in to deal with the mess is the right solution.

Don't get me wrong. I believe the workers need a break, but not at taxpayers expense.

What do you care? It's not your tax dollars paying for it.

Was it you that was hoping they didn't rebuild the casinos because you are anti-gambling?

[Mickey's Monkey]

What do you care? It's not your tax dollars paying for it.

Yeah! And I'm the insensitive conservative :rolleyes:


Was it you that was hoping they didn't rebuild the casinos because you are anti-gambling?

Nope, not me. Got the wrong person. I'm headed to Vegas next week to play in a poker tournament, in fact. Can't wait for the day they build up the casinos down there. Was looking forward to going to the Hard Rock that was due to open (I collect the pins). Apology accepted in advance.

[Mickey's Monkey]

So, your problem is with them going to Vegas...

I think it's a dumb idea and, at best, pre-mature, but I'm sure they'll need a vacation when it's all over, and Vegas isn't so bad. There isn't just gambling. There are shows and Ceasar's Palace.

My problem is the timing and the fact that Ragin' Nagin thinks this is appropriate timing at the moment. The guy is clueless on a number of levels.

[totalia]

This will never change until people grow up - someone has to stop first.



So why dont you just stop all this ugly fighting!! No, democrats would rather place blame on every opportunity they can find. Sorry, but this was NO governor and mayor's fault. I am in politics ands law - have been for 20 years - the state agencies are the ones that are in control in this situation until they ask for assistance. If Bush had gone in there as some of you suggest then you would be wanting him to resign because he did not go through proper channels before doing so. If he had of declared Martial Law as some have suggested, he still would have had democrats and republicans saying he should not have done so.

This is a lose, lose, situation. He was bound to be critized no matter how he handled the situation.

Uggg.

They asked for assistance BEFORE the hurricane. Try again.

[totalia]

You really don't have a clue!
Shocking and sad how some people are so blind isn't it?

[snowy76]

Uggg.

They asked for assistance BEFORE the hurricane. Try again.
Not enitrely.
They got a federal declaration before the hurricane. That means the feds come in with their personnel and programs to assist the local agencies.

That is totally separate from federalizing the operation, ie, putting the feds in charge.

It was seven years ago *today* that my city was declared a disaster area. Upstate was hit with hurricane-force winds -- what we thought was a tornado turned out to be straight line winds that affected hundreds of square miles. I was a reporter at the time. The people in charge were still the local officials, even with soldiers clearing the streets.

[totalia]

They didn't come in until people were dying.

How do you know that the local gvt aren't the ones in charge right now? You don't.

Bush came in to show his pearly whites. And FEMA came in far too late.

They asked for aid. The feds were late while the locals handled it.

Your excuses aren't making any sense.

[Albertan mom]

This is a lose, lose, situation. He was bound to be critized no matter how he handled the situation.


EXACTLY. This sentence sums it all up.

[peachgirl]

Yeah! And I'm the insensitive conservative :rolleyes:



Nope, not me. Got the wrong person. I'm headed to Vegas next week to play in a poker tournament, in fact. Can't wait for the day they build up the casinos down there. Was looking forward to going to the Hard Rock that was due to open (I collect the pins). Apology accepted in advance.

Pray tell, what is it I have to apologize for? There was a poster who had said they wished they wouldn't rebuild the casinos. I wondered if it was you. I see nothing wrong in asking, but if you can point it out to me, I have no problem apologizing.

How was my comment insensitive? I simply don't understand why you care what the city of New Orleans chooses to do as far as compensating their $16,000 a year policeman. Frankly, a free trip is the least they can do.

[peachgirl]

They got a federal declaration before the hurricane. That means the feds come in with their personnel and programs to assist the local agencies.

No, there were specific requests included for various assistance that wasn't included in a general declaration of a disaster area request. The document was posted, by me, on another thread yesterday.

[Amyality]

Okay, I'm no expert here but, Mississippi (where they were behaving in a neghborly manner) seems to have had better assistance and results with the coast guard. While in New Orleans, folks were basically going nuts, lighting fires, shooting at helecopters, etc. Much of the police force quit (but, hey we are talking about a very crooked police force). Lets face it the crowd in the superdome were not exactly the pinacles of society (I've been to New Orleans several times and the place is loaded with junkies, *****s, welfare abusers, drunks, the mentally ill, etc...). I'm not saying everyone there is like that at all, its also a very affluet city (though most those folks left). I personally believe the people to some degree the people hampered efforts by being totally unmanagable). But, nobody will say that...it's not poitically correct. Ugh. Before, everyone jumps down my throat, I am strictly speaking about the superdome. Not the poor grandmas stuck in their houses and a few folks who thought they could ride it out. Also, didn't the flooding take place the day after the storm? I thought I heard this. Officials were somewhat taken by suprise, someone may want to confirm this. I'm pretty busy and just watch bits and peices on the news.

[snowy76]

Let the feds come in without official sanction, and you get accusations that the feds usurped states' powers. Then we have a constitutional issue on our hands. Look, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the policy but that's the law.

Again, asking for aid and asking for a takeover of the operation are two different things (Even asking for specific assistance is NOT asking for a government takeover of the situation). The former may be initiated by the feds -- and it was, before the storm struck. A request for the latter must come from the governor's office and no one else, or else you're violating constitutionally separated powers.

The Washington Post reported that the White House issued a memo, Friday before the storm, asking Blanco to turn over the situation to the feds. The choice had to be HERS. She thought it was a political play and sat on it.

Then people died. Then she started asking for more help. So... were the feds late because they sat on it, or because Blanco did?

[Mai Ku Tiki]

I guess note. So, clue me in. How would a visit from the President give the people of N.O. the supplies, care, and relief that they need. Would the money and manpower necessary to pull of a symbolic Presidential visit be better spent on relief efforts. I thought that was your major complaint. That the relief didn't come fast enough or at the right level. So, again, clue me in. How would a Presidential visit give the people of N.O the relief they so desparately need. I'm clueless, remember. So, fill me in. A Presidential visit saves more people... how?

Well, in this case, Pres. Bush seemed utterly surprised by the devastation he saw first-hand after his first visit. He said something like "Wow! It's devasted...looks like it was hit by a big weapon". (sorry don't remember exact words.) Anyway, immediately AFTER that visit, REAL Fed. help began to descend upon the region..(as I believe should have occurred sooner). So....most Presidents know what is going on with their country...they either have good advisors or they watch TV or something...cause ANYONE who watched TV last week from SUN-TUES HAD TO KNOW that, yes, it looked like a big weapon went off down there. Since this President needs FIRST-HAND, ON-SITE experience before he'll make a decision that would save THOUSANDS of innocent AMERICANS, then in his case...let's make sure he ALWAYS sees what he needs with his own eyes!!

And for the record, they did suspend rescue operations for his photo op! Wonder how many died that day??? Too bad he just could'nt stay home and watch TV.

[WebmasterKathy]

Closing due to personal attacks.