Racial question/comment re:New Orleans footage

[Cindyluwho]

As I've been watching the post hurricane footage from New Orleans I couldn't help but wonder, are there any caucasians in New Orleans? Being from Seattle, where african americans are a small minority, and some of us are naive enough to think the whole US is this way :blush: , I thought maybe only the white folks chose to evacuate before the storm. After checking the demographics (2000 cencus) for New Orleans I see that the total population is 484,674 - with 325,947 blacks and 135,956 whites. That being said, do you think it will hamper fund raising, that the majority of the victims whose faces are on the television are black? The media has been under scrutiny lately for following stories of whites more than blacks lately (I'm thinking of the missing girl in Aruba). Do you think it will make a difference in how much money is raised?

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes--plenty of them.

In fact some were being rescued as well--but they were shown on a bridge after getting rescued from their homes.

I do not think it will hamper fundraising at all. Aid is distributed equitably based on need--and New Orleans was far from the only destruction.

[ADisneygirl]

Funny -- I didn't see color in the footage. Only the images of men, women and children tragically suffering.

[swilphil]

I do wonder if it will make a difference in how much money private citizens choose to donate, especially since the media has focused so much on the looting. I'm sure some people are saying they don't want to help the looters (who are a small percentage of those remaining in New Orleans). I also wonder if New Orleans' reputation of a Sin City will curb conservative religious organizations from donating as much as they do to other such relief efforts. New Orleans is somewhat renowned for its drinking, debauchery, gambling and prostitution. Don't get me wrong, I love visiting there for the food, music, night life, and culture, but I know it's not for everybody.

[DisneyCP2002]

Funny -- I didn't see color in the footage. Only the images of men, women and children tragically suffering.
I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. I didn't look at color, I just saw many people in need.

[cats7494]

I do wonder if it will make a difference in how much money private citizens choose to donate, especially since the media has focused so much on the looting. I'm sure some people are saying they don't want to help the looters (who are a small percentage of those remaining in New Orleans). I also wonder if New Orleans' reputation of a Sin City will curb conservative religious organizations from donating as much as they do to other such relief efforts. New Orleans is somewhat renowned for its drinking, debauchery, gambling and prostitution. Don't get me wrong, I love visiting there for the food, music, night life, and culture, but I know it's not for everybody.

No, it is not curbing my church's response - we are having special offerings to help the hurricane victims for the next month and longer as needed.
I would find it very un-Christian (and very odd!) if someone were to refuse to help or donate because of the city's reputation.... I can not even imagine thinking that to be honest. Certainly never came to my mind until I read your post.

[tiggersmom2]

That being said, do you think it will hamper fund raising, that the majority of the victims whose faces are on the television are black? The media has been under scrutiny lately for following stories of whites more than blacks lately (I'm thinking of the missing girl in Aruba). Do you think it will make a difference in how much money is raised?

You have got to be kidding me! I didn't see whites being in the majority of the Tsunami victims and everyone pulled together and donated for them.....why would this be any different?

These are HUMANS in need and I would think most people see them as such....not a color!!!! There will be record donations made for this tragedy....mark my words.

[TeresaNJ]

All I saw as I watched the footage were people suffering. Pain and suffering etched on their faces. I highly doubt skin color will affect donations. The majority of the Tsunami victims were not caucasion, yet people from all walks of life donated. Is this really a serious question?

[Robinrs]

Wow....

[ilovepcot]

I'm floored that such things even popped into some people's heads! :earseek:

[Cindyluwho]

Yes, darn it! This is a serious question. It's been noted for years that the US has a tendency to turn it's head when an African country is in need. Just think about Rwanda, for heaven's sake. As a country, we have always been more generous with helping Western countries than we are with African countries. I saw the news and I wondered, it's a legitimate question, based on our countries history, and I was curious about your opinions on this.

[4nana]

:confused3 In a disaster, color plays no part! Americans will all pull together, including Seattle!

[babar]

Yes, darn it! This is a serious question. It's been noted for years that the US has a tendency to turn it's head when an African country is in need. Just think about Rwanda, for heaven's sake. As a country, we have always been more generous with helping Western countries than we are with African countries. I saw the news and I wondered, it's a legitimate question, based on our countries history, and I was curious about your opinions on this.

First of all, most Americans had hardly heard of Rwanda earlier, as they news seemed to completely ignore it. there is lot's more being done now. And I would hardly call what we did for the tsunami not generous!!!!!

I'm sorry, but that's a dumb question. Of course everyone here will help and if they don't, they are probably the same people that don't help for anything.

[MinnieM3]

No, it is not curbing my church's response - we are having special offerings to help the hurricane victims for the next month and longer as needed.
I would find it very un-Christian (and very odd!) if someone were to refuse to help or donate because of the city's reputation.... I can not even imagine thinking that to be honest. Certainly never came to my mind until I read your post.

Mine neither! How could someone not help, and still sleep at night!? :confused3

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm glad everyone is answering they are.

B/c I thought it was poor taste to bring up the race card.

We aren't talking about the LA Riots--we are talking about a natural disaster.

[Beauty]

No flames, being from the South I do understand the question and see no harm in what she posted.

Yes we do have a majority of blacks in the South, New Orleans was the same way. Sadly in New Orleans there were many poor people and of course the majority was black because of the population but there were whites, mexicans, etc. Its just that since the majority is black, thats the majority of what you see.

I don't think color made a decision on leaving or staying. I DO think money made the decision for alot of people. Since N.O. is a large city there was public transportation and alot of people (all colors) didn't have their own personal vehicle. They had NO WAY to evacuate and no where to go. They had no money to buy hotel rooms etc. and their only family lived in N.O. with them. Yes this is a HUGE tragedy. The only way I can even begin to see the entire area being able to evacuate was if the govt. did just what they are doing right now, get hundreds maybe thousands of buses and load them up. I honestly don't know how feaseable that would be???? Also there were sick, bed ridden, home ridden people who had no choice but to stay.

Do I think it will make a difference in the money given? I certainly hope not. Families are families, people are people regardless of color.

I will say that the looding makes me sick. Not food, not diapers but jewelry, electronics etc. Where do they think they are going to take the big screen T.V. they were pushing down the street? It just makes no sense. Oh and I have no doubt race isn't playing a part in the looding either. You see more blacks because there ARE more blacks but I know if it was here we would have every scummy trashy caucasion crack head in the stores trying to steal drugs and things to make crystal meth.

[mbw12]

All I saw as I watched the footage were people suffering. Pain and suffering etched on their faces. I highly doubt skin color will affect donations. The majority of the Tsunami victims were not caucasion, yet people from all walks of life donated. Is this really a serious question?

My thoughts EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What does race have to do with it? I swear, people NEVER cease to amaze me.......

[Cindyluwho]

Fine, then, flame away. I still think it was a legitimate question based on our countrie's history and lack of support for African countries. And BTW, Thailand is an Asian country, NOT African.


And Beauty, your quote cracked me up: "but I know if it was here we would have every scummy trashy caucasion crack head in the stores trying to steal drugs and things to make crystal meth." Because that's the way it would be here in Washington too.

[DisneyCowgirl]

I have lived in New Orleans and can tell you with certainty that race is an issue there. Unfortunately, there are a lot African Americans in New Orleans who are extremely poor. A lot of the people who were left in New Orleans were people who had no economic means to get out (no car and no money). My heart is breaking for these people.

As for the looters, I believe they are a small percentage of the people left in New Orleans, and a TINY percentage of all the people who call New Orleans home. I also think that the situation there is something that I cannot possibly imagine living through. People behave in ways they would not normally when they are put in these kinds of situations.

I hope that people are not discouraged about sending help based on the footage of the looters.

[babar]

Fine, then, flame away. I still think it was a legitimate question based on our countrie's history and lack of support for African countries. And BTW, Thailand is an Asian country, NOT African.


And Beauty, your quote cracked me up: "but I know if it was here we would have every scummy trashy caucasion crack head in the stores trying to steal drugs and things to make crystal meth." Because that's the way it would be here in Washington too.


No kidding, but you said we only support "Western" countries...... :rolleyes:

[Cindyluwho]

No kidding, but you said we only support "Western" countries...... :rolleyes:

No, dear, I said we "are more generous" with Western countries. And yes, we were very generous with the Tsunami victims, thank goodness. And I truly hope we will be as generous with the hurricane victims.

[MaryPA]

Keep in mind that I am not defending anyone. Sometimes people only contribute to charities or disasters in THIS country. Not because they don't care, more so it's because the way the other countries have handled the money and the supplies don't make it to the needy and people want to know that the money is getting to the needy.

That said - I believe people will do the right thing and help out. This is our Country.

Also about the girl missing in Aruba. Her Parents are the ones keeping it in the public eye. The same way Lacy Peterson's family kept her in the public eye. Isn't that what you would do for your child?

[Aurora63]

I do think we need to refrain from calling the OP's post "dumb." And let's not be so high and mighty, either...there ARE people who will notice the race thing(and maybe not donate/care less because of it), but I think most will simply see it as human suffering.

I think the OP was asking a urely curious question, and some of us are reading way too much into it.

[DisneyCowgirl]

It is absolutely HORRIBLE, but I know that there are people who will not donate because of the race issue. Race relations in Louisiana are not the same as what they are in say, Chicago. I totally agree that it is 100% wrong, but it is true, and the OP's question is completely valid.

[pmcpmc]

most white people live on the hill

[Aneille]

I don't think it will matter in this situation at all.

But I don't think everyone should jump all over the OP. I think she was wondering about individuals who are watching the news and are making decisions about whether or not to donate to the Red Cross, Salvation Army etc.

There's a reason why the media is scrunitized and I am sure somewhere there are statitics based on racial demographics out there on who gives to what organizations and who gets what. And there is a reason for that too, because life in the USA isn't always fair.

I am glad that everyone responded how they did but I don't think its fair to the OP to jump all over her. The question might have been in poor taste due to how we close all are to the situation right now but it was a legitimate question.


We all like to believe everyone is treated equal in this country but sadly its not true. We are getting there, but we aren't there yet, and sadly many people still, not only see color but make decisions based on it.

[frozone]

Fine, then, flame away. I still think it was a legitimate question based on our countrie's history and lack of support for African countries.

It's absolutely a legitimate question, and I think you perfectly in the right for asking it. The way the media has been portraying the looters has a lot to do with race.

I also can't help but be a little suspicious of the "mock outrage" of people on this thread who find the question to be in such poor taste.

[snoopy]

Wow, poor OP. Ask an honest question respectfully and get raked over the coals. :( Emotions are running high I guess.

In answer to your question, I think a good bit of the people you might see on TV are not African American, but Creole. From what I understand, the Governor of LA is also Creole, I thought he was African American until I read otherwise. I also think that African Americans are treated very differently in the deep south than they are in other parts of the country, and that racial tension definately is alive and well there. I would hope that the media's portrayal of more blacks than whites would not have any impact on the relief efforts, but your question is certainly valid.

[Disney Doll]

I'll be very honest with you...I have been in NOLA a couple of times. I live in the northeast, and believe me, the difference in "race relations" in NOLA vs. the northeast were amazing to me. Amazing to the point of me being left speechless.

And we all like to think that we aren't prejudiced, and that everyone else in the USA isn't either. But we also know that it isn't true, we also know that as much as we hate to think about the validity of the OP's question & the fact that there might be folks who won't donate due to the high # of African-Americans affected, that there are, in fact, people in this country will not donate for exactly that reason. Perhaps none of us on the DIS fall into this category...overall we tend to be a nice group of folks.

But everyone isn't us DISers. So be as "outraged" as you wish...but the OP makes a valid point, and that is a shame.

[Buckalew11]

Wow, poor OP. Ask an honest question respectfully and get raked over the coals. :( Emotions are running high I guess.

In answer to your question, I think a good bit of the people you might see on TV are not African American, but Creole. From what I understand, the Governor of LA is also Creole, I thought he was African American until I read otherwise. I also think that African Americans are treated very differently in the deep south than they are in other parts of the country, and that racial tension definately is alive and well there. I would hope that the media's portrayal of more blacks than whites would not have any impact on the relief efforts, but your question is certainly valid.

Great post! I totally agree.

I think the comments are rather harsh on this thread to the OP. I think it is a legit question--sad but true.
I did see race when I watched the TV. I saw many more African-Americans on TV last night than white (except now, from Snopy I learn Creole!) Anyway, I didn't see race in a negative way but it did make me stop and think about the reasons why they may not have left town before the storm. I was afraid that money was probably the main reason which is just heartbreaking to me.

I don't think the OP was asking this question to bring up the race card. I agree what she says is true about how whites are sometimes treated by the media and all. I think it would be sad to think that there are people out there who would not donate because of race. I would not want to answer for that.

[jellymanoffspring]

Fine, then, flame away. I still think it was a legitimate question based on our countrie's history and lack of support for African countries. And BTW, Thailand is an Asian country, NOT African.


And Beauty, your quote cracked me up: "but I know if it was here we would have every scummy trashy caucasion crack head in the stores trying to steal drugs and things to make crystal meth." Because that's the way it would be here in Washington too.

Your question makes no sense!!! Americans' response to disaster in a foreign country has no bearing here.......

This is an American City and American people in need...good Lord!!!
Americans have ALWAYS pulled together in times of need.......
This will be no different!!!!!

God help those still in harms way and the rescuers trying to aid them!!

[pw2pp]

I don't see anything wrong with the OP asking the question that she did. She is not saying that SHE would be reluctant to help..... she is simply wondering if it MAY hinder the outpuring of help because, like it or not, there is still plenty of racism present in this Country (from BOTH sides).
She is simply making an observation and opening the topic up for discussion.... why is that so bad? :confused3

To answer the OP's question..... I would say .....
No, I don't think it would hinder the outpouing of help because I think that most Americans look at this tragedy and feel much sympathy for these human beings, we think to ourselves.... "this could be me or my family, how difficult it must be for them to be going through this". No matter what the color of their skin, we can relate to them as human beings.... wives, husbands, Mothers, fathers, sons, daughters and THAT is what will motivate us to help in any way that we possibly can.

[tevagirl]

I don't see anything wrong with the OP asking the question that she did. She is not saying that SHE would be reluctant to help..... she is simply wondering if it MAY hinder the outpuring of help because, like it or not, there is still plenty of racism present in this Country (from BOTH sides).
She is simply making an observation and opening the topic up for discussion.... why is that so bad? :confused3

To answer the OP's question..... I would say .....
No, I don't think it would hinder the outpouing of help because I think that most Americans look at this tragedy and feel much sympathy for these human beings, we think to ourselves.... "this could be me or my family, how difficult it must be for them to be going through this". No matter what the color of their skin, we can relate to them as human beings.... wives, husbands, Mothers, fathers, sons, daughters and THAT is what will motivate us to help in any way that we possibly can.

Well said.

[disykat]

I also think it's a legitimate question. I've been bothered by the coverage of looters - but it makes more sense to me now that I understand that there are way more people with dark skin than light in the population of that area. I've seen many interviews with caucasions, but the footage I've seen of looting doesn't show caucasions - I thought perhaps there was some racial profiling going on there.

I'm sorry that noticing skin color is offensive to some people. I definately noticed. I don't think it's a matter of prejudice. I wouldn't have noticed a thing if I saw a more mixed population. I did notice because it was predominately black - very different than what I expected. I would also have noticed if it was entirely white - that would have seemed weird as well, and also caused me to wonder if the media was portraying something unrealistically.

I don't think it will affect the aide given. I do think the media needs to be careful to present the "good" sides of this story - neighbor helping neighbor, etc. to avoid the image of looters hindering the compassion some people feel.

[snoopy]

I don't see anything wrong with the OP asking the question that she did. She is not saying that SHE would be reluctant to help..... she is simply wondering if it MAY hinder the outpuring of help because, like it or not, there is still plenty of racism present in this Country (from BOTH sides).
She is simply making an observation and opening the topic up for discussion.... why is that so bad? :confused3

To answer the OP's question..... I would say .....
No, I don't think it would hinder the outpouing of help because I think that most Americans look at this tragedy and feel much sympathy for these human beings, we think to ourselves.... "this could be me or my family, how difficult it must be for them to be going through this". No matter what the color of their skin, we can relate to them as human beings.... wives, husbands, Mothers, fathers, sons, daughters and THAT is what will motivate us to help in any way that we possibly can.

So true pw2pp! There for the grace of God go I......

[Miranda Danda]

I don't see anything wrong with the OP asking the question that she did. She is not saying that SHE would be reluctant to help..... she is simply wondering if it MAY hinder the outpuring of help because, like it or not, there is still plenty of racism present in this Country (from BOTH sides).
She is simply making an observation and opening the topic up for discussion.... why is that so bad? :confused3

To answer the OP's question..... I would say .....
No, I don't think it would hinder the outpouing of help because I think that most Americans look at this tragedy and feel much sympathy for these human beings, we think to ourselves.... "this could be me or my family, how difficult it must be for them to be going through this". No matter what the color of their skin, we can relate to them as human beings.... wives, husbands, Mothers, fathers, sons, daughters and THAT is what will motivate us to help in any way that we possibly can.


I agree. I think people here are too quick to jump on people's backs when NOTHING wrong was done. The OP is from nowhere near New Orleans and just asked a question in a tasteful manner. The OP made a valid question and in NO WAY stated that she would be less willing to help. Its a question. GEEZ! :rolleyes:

[Nancy]

I really, really wish that the media would not show so much of the looting...we all know what goes on after a disaster, looting happens. I don't even think if they were taking food, drinks, personal care items, diapers, and even clothes that it would be an issue. So many people have NOTHING. But when they start taking big ticket items and the lady pushing the shopping cart full of toys...well, that is taking advantage of the situation. My feelings on the looters are they probably for the most part from the worst affected areas. I know the company I work for just made a HUGE donation to the Red Cross and we (over 60 stores in 4 states) are now an official donation collection site. We did the same for the tsunami and donations were very low, I pray that we go over the top for this one.

[jenks0718]

I am sickened by this post. Literally sickened. I am hispanic and white. My husband is black. My children are, as expected, all mixed up. It makes me ill to know that if we were there people would first look at our skin color and THEN our predicament. Not all people, but I am darn sure a lot. Why in 2005 cant we just see people stuck on a roof instead of the "black" people. I used to argue with my husband about him thinking that the race issue was so obvious still in this day and age. As I read some posts on this message board and others I see that he has a right to think that way. The media coverage of the looting is hilarious. Do you think that there wasnt mass looting over near the tsunami? Of course there was. They just didnt show a bunch of people coming out of stores with Nike sneakers and suits. It literally makes me sick.

And for all the people on this post that are so upset that the OP was flamed. Its because I bet your skin is pale. If you and your children and dh was stranded on a rooftop you best bet no one would be pointing out the poor white folk trapped! It would just be people who need help and hurry the hell up.

And it even makes me more upset that the OP looked up racial stats for the area! WHY WOULD SHE EVEN CARE ABOUT THAT! Why dont you start checking who was Catholic or Baptist or Jewish!

I am sorry, but I am near tears right now to know that there are people in this country, OUR COUNTRY, who even could THINK that donations wouldnt be as high. I wouldnt be surprised if they werent though. Now that I see what some people think.

Poor black folk (how sickening!)

[Miranda Danda]

I am sickened by this post. Literally sickened. I am hispanic and white. My husband is black. My children are, as expected, all mixed up. It makes me ill to know that if we were there people would first look at our skin color and THEN our predicament. Not all people, but I am darn sure a lot. Why in 2005 cant we just see people stuck on a roof instead of the "black" people. I used to argue with my husband about him thinking that the race issue was so obvious still in this day and age. As I read some posts on this message board and others I see that he has a right to think that way. The media coverage of the looting is hilarious. Do you think that there wasnt mass looting over near the tsunami? Of course there was. They just didnt show a bunch of people coming out of stores with Nike sneakers and suits. It literally makes me sick.

And for all the people on this post that are so upset that the OP was flamed. Its because I bet your skin is pale. If you and your children and dh was stranded on a rooftop you best bet no one would be pointing out the poor white folk trapped! It would just be people who need help and hurry the hell up.

And it even makes me more upset that the OP looked up racial stats for the area! WHY WOULD SHE EVEN CARE ABOUT THAT! Why dont you start checking who was Catholic or Baptist or Jewish!

I am sorry, but I am near tears right now to know that there are people in this country, OUR COUNTRY, who even could THINK that donations wouldnt be as high. I wouldnt be surprised if they werent though. Now that I see what some people think.

Poor black folk (how sickening!)

I think she is just innocently curious about an area in which she has never been. :confused3

[DopeyRN]

Just a fact, no opinions should be inferred. The people who stayed behind were the poorer people, they may have had no way out. There is a heavy African American population in inner city, and these are the people you are seeing. The suburbs are mixed. I am disgusted by what I am seeing on the news. There does not appear to be enough help to control the situation.

[jenks0718]

I bet she wouldnt be looking up the stats of Beverly Hills if they had a flood. She would be content that all the white faces belong there. (sickening)

[ducklite]

Last I knew, we all bleed the same. 'Nuff said.

Anne

[jellymanoffspring]

I am sickened by this post. Literally sickened. I am hispanic and white. My husband is black. My children are, as expected, all mixed up. It makes me ill to know that if we were there people would first look at our skin color and THEN our predicament. Not all people, but I am darn sure a lot. Why in 2005 cant we just see people stuck on a roof instead of the "black" people. I used to argue with my husband about him thinking that the race issue was so obvious still in this day and age. As I read some posts on this message board and others I see that he has a right to think that way. The media coverage of the looting is hilarious. Do you think that there wasnt mass looting over near the tsunami? Of course there was. They just didnt show a bunch of people coming out of stores with Nike sneakers and suits. It literally makes me sick.

And for all the people on this post that are so upset that the OP was flamed. Its because I bet your skin is pale. If you and your children and dh was stranded on a rooftop you best bet no one would be pointing out the poor white folk trapped! It would just be people who need help and hurry the hell up.

And it even makes me more upset that the OP looked up racial stats for the area! WHY WOULD SHE EVEN CARE ABOUT THAT! Why dont you start checking who was Catholic or Baptist or Jewish!

I am sorry, but I am near tears right now to know that there are people in this country, OUR COUNTRY, who even could THINK that donations wouldnt be as high. I wouldnt be surprised if they werent though. Now that I see what some people think.

Poor black folk (how sickening!)

:grouphug: Jane!
I live in NJ too.....my skin is not dark and I was amazed at the ? also..and shocked by some answers...
Unfortunatelyracism is still quite prevalent...folks have just found ways to hide it better.
Racist or simply insensitive .....the OP was uncalled for at this time especially....IMHO

[Miranda Danda]

Just a fact, no opinions should be inferred. The people who stayed behind were the poorer people, they may have had no way out. There is a heavy African American population in inner city, and these are the people you are seeing. The suburbs are mixed. I am disgusted by what I am seeing on the news. There does not appear to be enough help to control the situation.

Well stated.

[jenks0718]

I may be taking this a little too hard. This post got to me. My dh always says I see a rainbow and not color. He loves that about me. When I read what others first thought is when they see the news it shocks me and hurts my heart and faith in the good ol USA. I know no one down south, but my heart bleeds for them right now. White, black, whatever.

[inaminute]

I watched the looting footage on t.v. All I saw were criminals breaking the law. The criminal behavior didn't stop me from donating to the Red Cross.

The way I look at it is those doing the looting have to live with themselves and their decisions. I have to live with mine. I couldn't live with myself knowing that I saw people suffering and didn't do anything to help. I'm hoping that most Americans feel the same way.

Why would anyone not offer assistance simply because the population of N.O. is predominantly African-American/Creole? It makes me very sad that race would be an issue under circumstances such as these. Actually I think I'm more sad that the question even had to be asked in the first place.

[Beth76]

I'm sorry that noticing skin color is offensive to some people. I definately noticed. I don't think it's a matter of prejudice. I wouldn't have noticed a thing if I saw a more mixed population. I did notice because it was predominately black - very different than what I expected. I would also have noticed if it was entirely white - that would have seemed weird as well, and also caused me to wonder if the media was portraying something unrealistically.
I will say that I too noticed that everyone being rescued was black. I'm sorry, but I'm not colorblind. I made an observation which is what the OP did. That's all it was---an observation. And she had a valid concern about that observation. I actually never thought about that, but I sure as hell noticed that there were no white people being rescued. Now, if they had just been showing white people don't you think there would be some "outrage" about that? I honestly didn't know the breakdown of race in NO. So, I was curious too. I don't think the general population will donate less because of this.

[snoopy]

:grouphug: Jane!
I live in NJ too.....my skin is not dark and I was amazed at the ? also..and shocked by some answers...
Unfortunatelyracism is still quite prevalent...folks have just found ways to hide it better.
Racist or simply insensitive .....the OP was uncalled for at this time especially....IMHO

:confused3 I thought that was the question the OP was trying to have answered -- is racism still alive and well, and if so, will it impact the relief efforts? I honestly don't quite understand how that relates to the OP or anyone who felt she had a valid question racist....

[Miranda Danda]

I will say that I too noticed that everyone being rescued was black. I'm sorry, but I'm not colorblind. I made an observation which is what the OP did. That's all it was---an observation. And she had a valid concern about that observation. I actually never thought about that, but I sure as hell noticed that there were no white people being rescued. Now, if they had just been showing white people don't you think there would be some "outrage" about that? I honestly didn't know the breakdown of race in NO. So, I was curious too. I don't think the general population will donate less because of this.
::yes:: THANK YOU! Lets be realistic here, people. I know people's nerves are up, but don't jump on someone for an observation and valid question. QUESTION. Not opinion. Remember that. Her question DOES NOT MAKE HER A RACIST. :rolleyes:

[va32h]

If you think that race relations in this country have reached the point where NO ONE looked at hurricane footage and noted the ethnic makeup of the refugees, you are living in a fantasyland.

In fact, based on things I saw and heard when I lived in the south - there are probably people who think it's a jolly good thing that so many minorities have been washed away. David Duke, the KKK, white supremacist groups - there is a reason these clubs have members and these people have followers. Because there are plenty of bigots left in this country.

If that offends you - good, it should! But the fact that it is unpleasant does not make it any less untrue.

As to this:
It's absolutely a legitimate question, and I think you perfectly in the right for asking it. The way the media has been portraying the looters has a lot to do with race.

Check out the captions on these photos:
The white couple "found" bread and soda:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1

While the black youth "looted" his 12 pack of Diet Pepsi:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530

[jellymanoffspring]

:confused3 I thought that was the question the OP was trying to have answered -- is racism still alive and well, and if so, will it impact the relief efforts? I honestly don't quite understand how that relates to the OP or anyone who felt she had a valid question racist....

Fine..than it is just insensitive....IMO

And her comparison of American donations to foreign countires is not vaild when we are talking about an American Disaster....

and obviously it was offensive to Jane......

[questioner]

If 30% of people decided that they would give less because the people affected were black, that would have a major effect on fund raising. I supect that is a good estimate. What if the flooding was in Salt Lake City?-- More $ would have been given.

The OP question was great, it opened a real debate.

[jenks0718]

THANK YOU! Lets be realistic here, people. I know people's nerves are up, but don't jump on someone for an observation and valid question. QUESTION. Not opinion. Remember that. Her question DOES NOT MAKE HER A RACIST.
************************************************** *******LLet me ask you this. What purpose did the OP have in going through the trouble of looking up the racial demographics of NO? WHAT DOES IT MATTER? In the big scheme of things, people are dying. PEOPLE. My thinking is if I saw a white man being plucked off the roof you wouldnt see me running the the census website to check on the stats. I am not being ignorant, but by the looks of your picture you may not "get it". Until you walk in my shoes or anyone of color, you will not understand where my frustration lies.

[Kim&Chris]

How anyone could even begin to think that donations would be hindered based on skin color is beyond me. Yes, most of the looters I saw were black. Most of the rescued appeared to be black as well. I saw healthy white people helping sick, elderly black people into boats. I saw a black man help an elderly white couple get to safety. I saw a photo of a white person taking stuff from WalMart.

And the point is????? Not one person that I know who made donations mentioned one word about the skin color of the recipients.

I will always be amazed how situations like this turn into racial discussions.

[Beth76]

Check out the captions on these photos:
The white couple "found" items:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1

While the black couple "looted"
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530
WOW! That is very interesting! Does anyone want to retract their statement bashing the OP now?

[jenks0718]

WOW! That is very interesting! Does anyone want to retract their statement bashing the OP now?
************************************************** ***

I will stand by my statements thank you. During this time of horror this is what she chooses to post. This is so offensive to me.

[Miranda Danda]

THANK YOU! Lets be realistic here, people. I know people's nerves are up, but don't jump on someone for an observation and valid question. QUESTION. Not opinion. Remember that. Her question DOES NOT MAKE HER A RACIST.
************************************************** *******LLet me ask you this. What purpose did the OP have in going through the trouble of looking up the racial demographics of NO? WHAT DOES IT MATTER? In the big scheme of things, people are dying. PEOPLE. My thinking is if I saw a white man being plucked off the roof you wouldnt see me running the the census website to check on the stats. I am not being ignorant, but by the looks of your picture you may not "get it". Until you walk in my shoes or anyone of color, you will not understand where my frustration lies.

I am not even getting into this. Because I am white I have it easy. Get real. People like you push racism and make it a huge thing. :guilty:

[Miranda Danda]

I am not being ignorant, but by the looks of your picture you may not "get it". Until you walk in my shoes or anyone of color, you will not understand where my frustration lies.
OK, so did you or did you not just do what you are flaming the OP for doing?!?!?!! She looked at a picture and asked a question based one what she saw. You just did the same thing. :rolleyes:

[Kim&Chris]

I am not even getting into this. Because I am white I have it easy. Get real. People like you push racism and make it a huge thing. :guilty:


I could not agree more. It's usually the people who proudly proclaim that they are not racist who perpetuate the division in the races.

[babar]

hey, if i think it's a dumb question then sorry, but I can! :sunny: Aren't you guys always saying on here everyone has a right to disagree?

Sorry, but I guess growing up in say, Chicago ;) , it surprises me how sheltered people are. I seriously have never known anyone that did not grow up around all races.

[jenks0718]

I am not even getting into this. Because I am white I have it easy. Get real. People like you push racism and make it a huge thing.

How I wish you really knew me beyond this message board and then I would like to see if you think I was the "typical" race card pusher. I never once said that you have it easier. My parents are both white, most of my family is white. Some of them are not wealthy people some are on puiblic assistance and disability. To THINK that white people have it so wonderful all the time is laughable. So DONT go there.

BUT to say that YOU know what it feels like to be a person of color when these comments hit a message board is also laughable.

I am the FARTHEST thing from a racist you can find. I dont blame society for anything that goes wrong in my life. I dont blame "whites" for the times when we are down and I dont thank affirmative action for when we land a job and times are good. I love my country and ALL who live in it. I raise my children the same. It is just that some things people understand more then others. You, will not understand how it is to walk in the shoes of a person of color no matter how hard you try. I am sorry if that angers you or makes you dislike me. It is a fact

[jellymanoffspring]

WOW! That is very interesting! Does anyone want to retract their statement bashing the OP now?

No . Not at all!
I question the common sense and way of thinking of the photo captioners ...just as I also question why the op would bother to look up the population stats of NO....
I simply saw human suffering....made all the more shocking because it is occuring in one of our cities and that the authorities do not have the situation under control yet....people are suffering as we speak....

Her reaction IMO shows that she feels much too removed from the situation way up there in Seattle....


And to the other poster(MIranda Danda) who keeps defending the OP's right to bring up a race question yet attacks Jane for her (apparently firsthand) experience with racism by using words like "PEOPLE LIKE YOU" and "using the Racecard" ..I think you need to do some thinking on the Irony in that!!!!

[dis ms.]

Check out the captions on these photos:
The white couple "found" bread and soda:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1

While the black youth "looted" his 12 pack of Diet Pepsi:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530

Wow! I can't say I'm too surprised, though. As someone with journalistic training, that obvious bias makes me sick. As a black person, it just saddens me.

The OP question was great, it opened a real debate.

And we all know how you love a real debate, questioner. :rolleyes:


Any bets as to how soon this thread will be locked? :rolleyes1

[babar]

No . Not at all!
I question the common sense and way of thinking of the photo captioners ...just as I also question why the op would bother to look up the population stats of NO....
I simply saw human suffering....made all the more shocking because it is occuring in one of our cities and that the authorities do not have the situation under control yet....people are suffering as we speak....

Her reaction IMO shows that she feels much too removed from the situation way up there in Seattle....


And to the orther poster(MIranda Danda) who keeps defending the OP's right to bring up a race question yet attacks Jane for her (apparently firsthand) experience with racism by using words like "PEOPLE LIKE YOU" and "using the Racecard" ..I think you need to do some thinking on the Irony in that!!!!


agreed, and the first thing I actually thought was that everyone should give more money because they are so poor. I'm sorry that my posts offended you guys, but I didn't think that people would actually do that and the thought never, ever crossed my mind.
I guess it's just what you know.......and I know there's racism out there, I'm not an idiot, but geez.....

[Miranda Danda]

My parents are both white, most of my family is white.

I am not being nit-pickey, but I am confused. I am really trying to understand you, but I thought you said you were Hispanic. :confused3 Please correct me if I am wrong. I do not feel like reading back through all the posts.

[jellymanoffspring]

I am not being nit-pickey, but I am confused. I am really trying to understand you, but I thought you said you were Hispanic. :confused3 Please correct me if I am wrong. I do not feel like reading back through all the posts.

WHY DOES IT MATTER????????

Yes I am shouting......

[jenks0718]

I am not being nit-pickey, but I am confused. I am really trying to understand you, but I thought you said you were Hispanic. :confused3 Please correct me if I am wrong. I do not feel like reading back through all the posts.

I am Hispanic and white. My mother is a white woman who used to be married to a man who was Puerto Rican. He left her when she was pregnant with me and she met my father an Irish white man and he loved her anyway. They got married immediately after my moms divorce was final and my mom was 6 months rpegnant and have been married for 30 years now. My Dad knows in his heart that I am not "his", but we never talk about it and I see him as my daddy, father, dad whatever. The man who got my mom pregnant was a sperm donor. I can post a family photo if it would make you happy. I am the 5'9 Hispanic chick and my mom is 5"0 with blond hair and my dad is 5'7 with very pale skin.

Lets just say when we went to Disney we were a wonderful mix of color (dh, me, kids, mom and dad)

[Miranda Danda]

WHY DOES IT MATTER????????

Yes I am shouting......
BECAUSE I AM GETTING JUMPED ON FOR NO REASON!

I am going to bed. I don't have time for this. I have work in the morning.....



In closing, I pray for ALL victims of the hurricane. I have been there many times. I do not care about color. The question was valid and "non-racist." Get over it.

[dis ms.]

I am Hispanic and white. My mother is a white woman who used to be married to a man who was Puerto Rican. He left her when she was pregnant with me and she met my father an Irish white man and he loved her anyway. They got married immediately after my moms divorce was final and my mom was 6 months rpegnant and have been married for 30 years now. My Dad knows in his heart that I am not "his", but we never talk about it and I see him as my daddy, father, dad whatever.

What an awesome guy! I just love to hear stories about stand-up guys like your dad. Very heartwarming.

[jenks0718]

What an awesome guy! I just love to hear stories about stand-up guys like your dad. Very heartwarming.

My dad is awesome. Beyond a wonderful father. I love him so much.

[gottaluvPluto]

Forgive me if this was already mentioned; I didn't read all the pages. I'm going to write on experiences.

Coming from an area that has been hit this past year with hurricanes; I can only say that most people in this area see this not as a black or white issue, but an issue of a disaster. People came here to help us and now we will help them.

[jellymanoffspring]

What an awesome guy! I just love to hear stories about stand-up guys like your dad. Very heartwarming.

My dad is awesome. Beyond a wonderful father. I love him so much.

I totally agree....
good night jane....

[jenks0718]

Night night

[Alicnwondrln]

this thread needs to be closed

asap

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

The question was legit and not racist at all. The responses were overly sensitive and downright rude.

[grlpwrd]

Thanks for asking a non-PC question. I didn't interpret any racism in your post, just inquisitiveness. Seattle is not very racially diversified - I've lived in Kirkland for 11 years and attended the UW for 5 years - so I can see why you asked.

Yes, look at how the Black person is described as a "looter" while the white couple "found" their food. When the media concentrates on giving us negative images and using such racism in their reporting then yes, I think it may affect $$$ donations.

For those folks who pounced on the OP... I'm wondering what color is your sky? (rhetorical question - said in jest so don't pounce on me lol)

[LoraJ]

Noticing the color of ones skin does not make someone racist. Discriminating against them because of it does.

Some girl in school told me I was white as chalk, does that mean she is racist? Absolutely not!

[Pete's Mom]

Skin color did not factor into my decision to donate. However, the uncontrolled looting makes me worry that my donation might not make it to those who need it. :sad2:

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This is an American City and American people in need...good Lord!!!
Americans have ALWAYS pulled together in times of need.......
This will be no different!!!!!

God help those still in harms way and the rescuers trying to aid them!!


And lets not forget--there were lots of places where non-minority populations lived that are no more--Gulfport, Biloxi...

This is not an incident limited to one city.

[Beauty]

I still stand behind the OP that her question WAS NOT racist. It was a very honest question from someone NOT used to a minority population.

Does racism still exsist, you bet your sweet bippy it does, but being a white person I can tell you with 100% accuracy that there are some blacks just as racist agains whites as there are whites racist against blacks. You can't help the attitudes and hearts of some people. If they have bad hearts and racist hearts then thats what they have. A BLACK heart can be ANY color.

That being said I pray to my Lord above that the color of anyone's skin doesn't cause one person to not donate and help these people.

[frozone]

Noticing the color of ones skin does not make someone racist. Discriminating against them because of it does.


This deserves repeating. Excellent post, and simple enough that some people may even get it.

Just because we are Americans, we don't have to be the same. Difference is good.

Another thing...not all racism is premeditated. I don't think the people captioned those pictures meant to be malicious...many times it's an ingrained response that people aren't even aware of.

And, personally, I'd be sad if this thread was closed. There should be more discussions about race in America, not less. I applaud people who are looking up city demographics...knowledge is the first step in overcoming racism.

[Cindyluwho]

I am not being ignorant, but by the looks of your picture you may not "get it". Until you walk in my shoes or anyone of color, you will not understand where my frustration lies.

How dare you!?! Can you tell by the picture that I have blacks in my family? Can you tell by the picture that one of the girls has lived the majority of her life near Chernobyl and will forever be affected by the radiation there? No, you can't. Because YOU didn't look beyond the color of their skin!

[Divamomto3]

Yes, darn it! This is a serious question. It's been noted for years that the US has a tendency to turn it's head when an African country is in need. Just think about Rwanda, for heaven's sake. As a country, we have always been more generous with helping Western countries than we are with African countries. I saw the news and I wondered, it's a legitimate question, based on our countries history, and I was curious about your opinions on this.

This is not an African country, this is the United States of America! And I can only thank God that I only saw suffering humans when I look at the news. There are many African Americans in the South, as well as many urban areas throughout the rest of the country.

I don't even know if I can respond...I'm too dumbfounded and shocked by the OP. This is the worst natural disaster in our country's history...who's thinking about race???

[Lisa loves Pooh]

How dare you!?! Can you tell by the picture that I have blacks in my family? Can you tell by the picture that one of the girls has lived the majority of her life near Chernobyl and will forever be affected by the radiation there? No, you can't. Because YOU didn't look beyond the color of their skin!

:cheer2:

[Divamomto3]

[QUOTE=va32h]If you think that race relations in this country have reached the point where NO ONE looked at hurricane footage and noted the ethnic makeup of the refugees, you are living in a fantasyland.

In fact, based on things I saw and heard when I lived in the south - there are probably people who think it's a jolly good thing that so many minorities have been washed away. David Duke, the KKK, white supremacist groups - there is a reason these clubs have members and these people have followers. Because there are plenty of bigots left in this country.

If that offends you - good, it should! But the fact that it is unpleasant does not make it any less untrue.

As to this:


Check out the captions on these photos:
The white couple "found" bread and soda:
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1


Wow! I am speechless over the captions on the pictures. I'm so naive that I want to believe that somehow the photographer saw the subjects from beginning to end, but I know that's not true. I'm shocked.

As for the race question, I guess I have to remember that race relations in the Northeast are different from race relations in other areas. I don't mean to be so harsh on the OP after reading other replies, but I was truly shocked by the question.

[Divamomto3]

If 30% of people decided that they would give less because the people affected were black, that would have a major effect on fund raising. I supect that is a good estimate. What if the flooding was in Salt Lake City?-- More $ would have been given.

The OP question was great, it opened a real debate.

I'd be less inclined to donate to the Red Cross if this happened in an affluent area. I can clearly see that these are people who had nothing to begin with and were hanging on to life by a shoestring to begin with. They didn't have Japanese import automobiles and Platinum Citibank Mastercards to get out of town with. Many probably bought their groceries or baby formula with food stamps and WIC cards, as many of them actually used the word "The Projects" to describe where they lived to the news reporters waiting for them on the highway overpass that they trudged to in chest deep sewage. They certainly weren't in any shape to get themselves out of town, and unfortunately, nobody came for them.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

They certainly weren't in any shape to get themselves out of town, and unfortunately, nobody came for them.

Just to correct--they had bus stops all over town to take them to refuges of last resort.

[Caradana]

I will say that I too noticed that everyone being rescued was black. I'm sorry, but I'm not colorblind. I made an observation which is what the OP did. That's all it was---an observation. And she had a valid concern about that observation. I actually never thought about that, but I sure as hell noticed that there were no white people being rescued. Now, if they had just been showing white people don't you think there would be some "outrage" about that? I honestly didn't know the breakdown of race in NO. So, I was curious too. I don't think the general population will donate less because of this.

I think the OP's question was legit and asked in the spirit of a true inquiry, not a judgement. As un-PC as it sounds, I mostly agree with Beth. I wouldn't say that there were "no" white people getting rescued, though. I'm sure there were many. Nonetheless, the videotapes of the stranded and rescued underscores the sad fact that more blacks than whites are poverty-stricken. I also think it's horrendous for race relations in this country when they show videotapes of looters and easily 95% are black. That saddens me.

P.S. Race was not an issue in 9/11 because (a) we had a preset enemy, I'll explain that in a second, and (b) citizens of 86 different nations died, so we couldn't easily split victimology between "white" and "black." Back to (a) - after 9/11, we had a group to vent our anger at: middle eastern terrorists. We were able to say "If they hadn't done that, then 9/11 wouldn't have happened." We had a direction to channel our anger. In this case, we can't be angry at nature. Instead, we feel so powerless that we get angry at what we perceive as stupidity. There are a thousand posts on this board today asking why some residents, particularly poor residents (disproportionally black) failed to evacuate. The reasons are many, but the implication is always that "even if I'D been in NoLa with zero money and zero family outside the city, I still would've found a way out." That indignance is channeled into white-hot anger at the people who didn't, because we have no "villain" to be angry at ... so we express our feelngs as anger with the stupid.

[Nana Annie]

I will donate no matter what color, race, debauchery, etc. I too only saw human suffering. I will donate because of the people. Last I knew, we all had the same **** Sapien DNA. The suffering is intense. I have to cry each time I see that poor man that had to choose between saving his children vs. saving his wife. Or the 80 year old guy that walked all day to get to the Superdome without food or water. Or the young guy who braved the water and left his apartment building to go find help for those suffering in his building. He tracked down a media crew to announce all the people and their ailments and to let somebody know they were in there.

However, I must say that I noticed subtle discriminatory remarks by the media. I don't think they were pre-meditated nor malicious - but just the fact that they were subconsciously said says a lot! People may not realize it, but they are still separating between the races.

For example - today I watched the airlift rescue of two people - one white, one black. On the roof, someone had spray painted in huge letters "Help - Diabetic -Need Rescue. Heart Medicine Too." (or something very close to that).

The caucasian person being rescued was an elderly gentleman dressed to the nines in a long sleeved business shirt and slacks. The African-American person being rescued (they both were strapped on the same helicopter lift) was a younger, rather large African American Woman.

The white, female commentator said something to the effect of "look, they are rescuing that poor sick man. And that woman must be his caretaker or something." I was floored. First of all, why would one assume she was his caretaker? Is there a stereotype of caretakers being African-American? Maybe she was his wife (she was very tender) or daughter or even friend. And who was to assume that the sick person was the white gentleman. I am not in the medical field, but my first thought was that the larger woman was probably the diabetic.

Now that said, and to answer the OP's post - no, I don't think the majority of the American public will look at race. It was not an issue for 9/11. And with NYC so racially diverse, the victims of 9/11 had to be equally diverse. I would like to believe that my fellow Americans are mostly good and will rise to the occasion of fellow Americans suffering through a hell that most of us could not imagine going through.

[Aidensmom]

You have got to be kidding me! I didn't see whites being in the majority of the Tsunami victims and everyone pulled together and donated for them.....why would this be any different?

These are HUMANS in need and I would think most people see them as such....not a color!!!! There will be record donations made for this tragedy....mark my words.

I agree.

We are talking about human beings, who cares what race they are?

[justhat]

I do think people will donate less based on the footage, but not because the people are only black, but because they're all looting and look like wild animals and no one wants to help them. It's one thing to see people looting diapers, baby food, formula, etc., but when they loot plasma tvs, guns, etc. you don't feel sorry for them, you feel angry. People feel sorry for the victims who are being victimized again (the shop owners) but they don't necessarily think that at first, they think "why would I help these horrible looters?"

[Divamomto3]

Just to correct--they had bus stops all over town to take them to refuges of last resort.

:confused3 I realize there are public buses in the city of New Orleans. I'm not quite sure how you want me to respond to that. Would I have left? Absolutely. Why didn't they? I have no idea. I can only imagine they didn't have any idea how horrible it was going to be.

[Caradana]

I agree.

We are talking about human beings, who cares what race they are?

I don't think it's about caring. I think we all care. I think we'd all care if the victims here were green aliens. This is a tragedy of literally biblical proportions. At the same time, this is America, and race matters here. It shapes behavior, culture, it shapes the history and the future. I think we're all aware of it. And I think it's worth talking about, if we ever expect or hope that it might change.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

:confused3 I realize there are public buses in the city of New Orleans. I'm not quite sure how you want me to respond to that. Would I have left? Absolutely. Why didn't they? I have no idea. I can only imagine they didn't have any idea how horrible it was going to be.

You said nobody came for them.

The city set up bus stops to take people to the superdome. So somebody did try and come for them. For several hours--they came and got people.

[Nana Annie]

Just to correct--they had bus stops all over town to take them to refuges of last resort.

My guess is that some of those suffering may not have had the means to have a television, let alone with cable to watch CNN/MSNBC/FOX and might not have fully comprehended the magnitude of the storm that was approaching. We take it for granted with tv, radio, internet that everybody knew there was a cat 5 hurricane approaching. But those with lesser means may not have had the access to all the news reports. And if they did not have access to the news reports, they may have had a hard time assessing whether the evacuation order was really something that needed to be done, especially since NO had dodged the bullet so many times before.

And correct me if I am wrong, but being glued to the tv all day Sunday, my recall of one of the things hampering the evacuation was that all mass transit had been cancelled or was on a very hit or miss schedule. There was lots of coverage that many of the people with lesser means had absolutely no way of leaving.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

My guess is that some of those suffering may not have had the means to have a television, let alone with cable to watch CNN/MSNBC/FOX and might not have fully comprehended the magnitude of the storm that was approaching. We take it for granted with tv, radio, internet that everybody knew there was a cat 5 hurricane approaching. But those with lesser means may not have had the access to all the news reports. And if they did not have access to the news reports, they may have had a hard time assessing whether the evacuation order was really something that needed to be done, especially since NO had dodged the bullet so many times before.

And correct me if I am wrong, but being glued to the tv all day Sunday, I thought one of the things hampering the evacuation was that all mass transit had been cancelled or was on a very hit or miss schedule. There was lots of coverage that many of the people with lesser means had absolutely no way of leaving.

No idea on the mass transit. The bus stop thing was set up independently of whatever the regular schedule was.

As far as tv--that makes some sense if they don't have tv---but then how did so many people know to go to the Superdome when their homes were breached?

[poohandwendy]

Funny thing about the pictures mentioned in the earlier posts, I thought the picture of the 'white' couple was an african american woman and a white man. I could be wrong.

Either way, no I do not think race will be an issue in the generosity of people in this country. What I DO think will be an issue is the skyrocketing gas prices, THAT puts people into a panic and will affect how much people give, IMHO. Not that people will not give, but I think many people will give slightly less until they are sure things are stable. JMHO

[Aidensmom]

I don't think it's about caring. I think we all care. I think we'd all care if the victims here were green aliens. This is a tragedy of literally biblical proportions. At the same time, this is America, and race matters here. It shapes behavior, culture, it shapes the history and the future. I think we're all aware of it. And I think it's worth talking about, if we ever expect or hope that it might change.

I agree and disagree. Yes, if race is shaping our behavior, it not only deserves to be talked about but needs to be talked about. But I do genuinely think this tragedy has caused most people to care, no matter what. I know there is plenty of racism still alive in this country, but from what I have seen so far, there is plenty of just plain old "human" compassion for the circumtances. I think the "racist" people in this country are a minority.

[Florida_Mom]

[QUOTE=Nana Annie]
However, I must say that I noticed subtle discriminatory remarks by the media. I don't think they were pre-meditated nor malicious - but just the fact that they were subconsciously said says a lot! People may not realize it, but they are still separating between the races.

For example - today I watched the airlift rescue of two people - one white, one black. On the roof, someone had spray painted in huge letters "Help - Diabetic -Need Rescue. Heart Medicine Too." (or something very close to that).

The caucasian person being rescued was an elderly gentleman dressed to the nines in a long sleeved business shirt and slacks. The African-American person being rescued (they both were strapped on the same helicopter lift) was a younger, rather large African American Woman.

The white, female commentator said something to the effect of "look, they are rescuing that poor sick man. And that woman must be his caretaker or something." I was floored. First of all, why would one assume she was his caretaker? Is there a stereotype of caretakers being African-American? Maybe she was his wife (she was very tender) or daughter or even friend. And who was to assume that the sick person was the white gentleman. I am not in the medical field, but my first thought was that the larger woman was probably the diabetic.
QUOTE]

Oh wow, I saw that footage, but not with the female commentator talking. I saw it on Aaron Brown tonight. What a comment! :confused:

The sad fact is that there are still alot of bigots in this country. I've worked for them in the past when I lived in Atlanta, and unfortunately there have been a few in my extended family. I wish it were different. No, it's certainly not going to effect my giving, but I do have fears that it may affect some people and what they will give. The looting footage certainly doesn't help. I, too, hope that the media will spend time focusing on some of the "neighbor helping neighbor" stories. We all need HOPE right now!

My whole family (aside from immediate family) is from the Mississippi coast. We've heard from most, but not all. I pray that everyone can come together in this time.

[lulubelle]

My response is as follows:
I am currently unemployed and have watched the news coverage most of the day. While I am aware that most of the victims of this horrible tragedy appear to be black, I am unaffected by this fact. I cried most of the day. My DH came home from work and I hugged him hard and sobbed on his (clueless) shoulder. I cried "we have to call and make a donation NOW, I was waiting for you!", and he was like "uh, ok honey" :rolleyes: I had to explain to him what was going on in the gulf. I hope my fellow americans will not be swayed by skin color, in fact I do not believe that any of us could watch the footage and not be sympathetic enough to give what you can. This debate in my opinion is pointless - let's just all do what we can to help in this truly horrid situation.

P.S. Oh, and the gas prices around here are another subject! :rolleyes1

[PixieDust32]

Funny -- I didn't see color in the footage. Only the images of men, women and children tragically suffering.


I couldn't agree more!!!

All the images of MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN! I didn't noticed any race or color!

[Huey, Dewey, Louie]

Being from Europe I don't really understand why many of you flame the OP for politely asking a pretty neutral question. He did not say anything about his own point of view.

Personally I believe that the color of your skin does not make a difference to people's character - but on the other side it's a fact, that (seing it worldwide) the majority of white people are rich and many black's are poor.
This DOES impact our point of view more than we want to believe. You cannot wipe out prejudices within a generation or so.

Back in the 60s there still was a racial segregation in states like Louisiana. Do you really believe, that it's all gone today? That's simple-hearted!

And viewing the US from outside it still acts like a 'white' country. A white president - white goveneurs (do you believe a non-white Schwarzenegger would even have a chance of being voted?) - but black soldiers to die ...

Don't get me wrong: I love the US, but when falling in love, you still should be objective.

[totalia]

Color didn't even occur to me. They are people suffering. Thats enough.

And to the above poster, well put.

[poohandwendy]

And viewing the US from outside it still acts like a 'white' country. A white president - white goveneurs (do you believe a non-white Schwarzenegger would even have a chance of being voted?)
Yes, as a matter of fact, I do. Many people have actually moved past the prejudices, believe it or not. We are moving forward in this country. We have a ways to go, but I believe MOST Americans would vote for a minority leader that they felt represented their interests. Btw, how many black (or minority) leaders represent you in Germany? Just curious, I have no idea. Because, viewing from the outside, Germany still acts like a 'white country' too. but black soldiers to die ...
I take offense to that comment. None of our soldiers, regardless of color, are dispensable, IMO. We don't send any of them to die...we send them to fight for our freedoms and we are deeply pained when any of them die...it is a colorless feeling.

[Huey, Dewey, Louie]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do. Many people have actually moved past the prejudices, believe it or not. We are moving forward in this country. We have a ways to go, but I believe MOST Americans would vote for a minority leader that they felt represented their interests. Btw, how many black (or minority) leaders represent you in Germany? Just curious, I have no idea. Because, viewing from the outside, Germany still acts like a 'white country' too.

I also believe YOU are on the right (and long) way.

Good point for you! Just 2 answers:
1. we had many immigrants (partial up to 30%) from eastern Europe after WWII - many of their anchestors are in ruling positions now - maybe '*** they're also white-skinned...
2. we have a growing number (5-10% depending of the area) of arabic/turkish (islamic) people - they have no official reprasentatives at all - same (or bigger) problems as your's ...

I don't love Germany for the fact of racial seperation (it's not a big issue '*** there maybe 3-5% not being white), but most european countries have to find their way. Some of them will become multicultural and others will still be monocultural. In a few decades we'll know better ... same as overseas.


I take offense to that comment. None of our soldiers, regardless of color, are dispensable, IMO. We don't send any of them to die...we send them to fight for our freedoms and we are deeply pained when any of them die...it is a colorless feeling.

I didn't want to offend you - it's just the ugly thing, that it's not Mr Bush's son who's going to die for freedom - nor it's the kid of other welathy families.
I believe it has to do with money - and again this correlates with the color of skin ...

[poohandwendy]

I didn't want to offend you - it's just the ugly thing, that it's not Mr Bush's son who's going to die for freedom - nor it's the kid of other welathy families.
I believe it has to do with money - and again this correlates with the color of skin ...Actually, it may be about money. But if your argument is that it is about race, looking at our statistics you will find that the percentage of blacks in our population (about 14%) is very close to the percentage of blacks in our military (about 16%). (as of 2002, reference: Dept of Defense)

We are sending our PEOPLE to fight our wars, it is not disproportionate by race. That is why I take offense to your comment that we send 'blacks soldiers to die'....

[Huey, Dewey, Louie]

Ok - learned my lesson.
I just had different information - but it's never too late to learn.

[mbw12]

WOW! That is very interesting! Does anyone want to retract their statement bashing the OP now?

Nope, not at all. I stand by what I first posted....my shock that someone/anyone would look at the race to decide whether or not they would donate. As for someone saying that many of us are "mock outraged".....that is wrong. I truly am surprised that race has come up in this issue. I am not "bashing" the OP, but I just really thought that people would see or think about is needy people.

[aprilgail2]

I do think people will donate less based on the footage, but not because the people are only black, but because they're all looting and look like wild animals and no one wants to help them. It's one thing to see people looting diapers, baby food, formula, etc., but when they loot plasma tvs, guns, etc. you don't feel sorry for them, you feel angry. People feel sorry for the victims who are being victimized again (the shop owners) but they don't necessarily think that at first, they think "why would I help these horrible looters?"

EXACTLY! There are some letters in a local paper today saying that they were going to donate but after seeing all these people looting they changed there minds since the looters would be the first ones lining up for the money....sad...but once you see things like that it sours you...

[jenks0718]

EXACTLY! There are some letters in a local paper today saying that they were going to donate but after seeing all these people looting they changed there minds since the looters would be the first ones lining up for the money....sad...but once you see things like that it sours you...
***********************************

Looks like the media won again. Thats exactly what they wanted to happen. Now after this calms down a bit and the donations are beginning to be counted and compared to other tragedies they will start a debate on why low income black people received less then others. They will LOVE to report about that.

We can not and should not assume that the looters will be the only people to get aid. They are a very small minority of the population affected by this. Why should all of those people (regardless of race) suffer from less donations? I understand that this may make people angry (the looting), but they have to see the big picture and I am sorry. The media is making it worse.

[jenks0718]

How dare you!?! Can you tell by the picture that I have blacks in my family? Can you tell by the picture that one of the girls has lived the majority of her life near Chernobyl and will forever be affected by the radiation there? No, you can't. Because YOU didn't look beyond the color of their skin!
*********************************************

Do me a favor and go back to my original post and see if I was talking to you. I wasnt looking at your girls pics and it wasnt intended for you. I was speaking to the person who was defending you and was trying to make a point.

I still have NO IDEA why YOU looked up racial stats on the area when this disaster is going on. I do not care what anyone on this post says, THAT does not make sense to me. You can have blacks in your family all you want. Maybe you should have asked them the racial demographics of NO if it was so intriguing to you.

[jenks0718]

How dare you!?! Can you tell by the picture that I have blacks in my family? Can you tell by the picture that one of the girls has lived the majority of her life near Chernobyl and will forever be affected by the radiation there? No, you can't. Because YOU didn't look beyond the color of their skin!
*********************************************

Also, even if this post was intended for you (WHICH IT WAS NOT) YOU still wouldnt understand how it is to walk in the shoes of a person of color or your daughters shoes for that matter. Everyone's situation is unique and they have to deal with daily obstacles that others do not. You know how it feels to have a little girl who has health issues (which I am truly sorry. I have children and I am sorry that you have to deal with something like that) I on the other hand have been blessed with children with no issues. You may read something that hurts you in regards to a health topic. I may feel you are being overly sensitive. I dont UNDERSTAND your point of view because I have not walked in your shoes. I can TRY to understand, but only YOU have a little girl with health issues and I do not. Does that make any sense?

[va32h]

Yes, yes, congratulations to us, we are all wonderful people who would never ever discriminate against anyone, and all we see are people in need.

No one here is a racist, we are all perfect examples of humanitarianism and shining beacons of how far race relations have come in this country.

And if someone felt otherwise - I doubt they would have the nerve to post it.

Do you think the OP was saying that "you" personally or collectively were racist? She was saying that some people probably are. Do you really think that's not true? You've never met someone who thought or said derogatory things about people of color? Really?

I cannot believe that pointing out something as obvious as the fact that there is racial discrimination in the US would cause such hysteria and hyperbole.

The sky is blue - you know. And the earth is round. I will sit back and await the expressions of outrage and anguish.

[bajanswife]

Yes, yes, congratulations to us, we are all wonderful people who would never ever discriminate against anyone, and all we see are people in need.

No one here is a racist, we are all perfect examples of humanitarianism and shining beacons of how far race relations have come in this country.

And if someone felt otherwise - I doubt they would have the nerve to post it.

Do you think the OP was saying that "you" personally or collectively were racist? She was saying that some people probably are. Do you really think that's not true? You've never met someone who thought or said derogatory things about people of color? Really?

I cannot believe that pointing out something as obvious as the fact that there is racial discrimination in the US would cause such hysteria and hyperbole.

The sky is blue - you know. And the earth is round. I will sit back and await the expressions of outrage and anguish.

No outrage and anguish from me - I completely agree with you! Regardless how each of us here on the DIS (who have posted) feels about this tragedy, and what we see when we look at the TV images, it is an undeniable fact that there are people out there who will say "good riddance". It's horrible, really it is, that someone would think that way. But until all the white supremist groups are gone, there will always be at least one person in America who thinks that way.

As for how much it will actually affect donations - hard to say. I would like to think it won't, but who knows really. Maybe some of the people not donating might not have donated anyway, regardless of the demographics of the area affected. I hope that the "non donators due to race" will not be a significant number.

[babar]

sooooo essentially what you are all saying is that because some of us think it was pretty poor taste to post that question right now, that we all turn a blind eye to racism? :rotfl: give me a break!! To be honest, the first thing that popped in my head when I read her question that she might have been thinking the same thing that she was asking. Obviously I know that's not the case.....but I guess I still can't see that what she proposed would be an issue with anyone except for fringe groups.

But that's what i get for looking thru my "rose-colored glasses"! :rolleyes:

Oh, and someone asked what color the sky is where I live...well hey, thanks for asking. It's partly cloudy with some patches of blue, but we expect full sunshine later. :sunny:

And quite honestly, some of your posts back have been more obnoxious than anything else. Especially the people who wait to post their opinions 7 pages in after seeing what the majority agrees with. :teeth:

[bajanswife]

Especially the people who wait to post their opinions 7 pages in after seeing what the majority agrees with. :teeth:

Why? I, for one, only started reading this thread after it had reached page 8 - how could I have responded any earlier? I can't be the only one! :confused3

[babar]

Why? I, for one, only started reading this thread after it had reached page 8 - how could I have responded any earlier? I can't be the only one! :confused3

I'm not saying you, i'm saying in general on all these kinds of posts.
And it was meant in a lighthearted way, but guess I'm on the bad side of the DIS now....uh oh..... :moped: (that's me getting out of dodge)

[maleficent1959]

Nope, not at all. I stand by what I first posted....my shock that someone/anyone would look at the race to decide whether or not they would donate. As for someone saying that many of us are "mock outraged".....that is wrong. I truly am surprised that race has come up in this issue. I am not "bashing" the OP, but I just really thought that people would see or think about is needy people.

Let me start by saying that I read the first pages and the last pages of the thread, and I'm NOT singling out mbw12. It's just that yours is a nice concise post with the issue I wanted to respond to.

Sadly, there are people who won't donate because the majority of the victims portrayed have been African-Americans. I know of two in my extended family that won't. Ugly, painful, but true. On the upside, I have a racist aunt (she's one of those "her friends are okay but the general population isn't" kinds of people) who donated a bunch of money and blood to hurricane victims. Obviously color didn't matter to her.

I'm sure that there are some people who look at the TV and think "nope" but I think the majority of Americans have or will give generously because people are suffering greatly, whether it is money or time or goods or rooms in their homes, and race won't be a factor.

[questioner]

Look at the Yahoo message boards on topics related to the Huricane and the crime wave in New Orleans. There is little Political Correctness on these boards. People say what they really think. The comments are raw and harsh beyond anything you would see on the PC Disney Board.

Yes, the racial mix of the people in New Orleans will effect charity. It is a "unspoken truth" The crime wave will have a major impact to. Many people in New Orleans look like "savages" in the media.

[Maleficent13]

Wow...you miss all the excitement when you can only DIS during the day! So I apologize for not being able to respond before now; yes, i have read all 8 pages, and my opinion hasn't changed from when I read the OP. And no, my opinion isn't the majority, i don't believe.

I think the OP sounds like someone who analyzes situations. I am like this as well. You aren't distancing yourself from the situation, you are just analyzing it. I, for one, found the statistics info interesting, as information I never knew before. I could see myself looking this up if it had entered my head. I'm very sensitive to media bias, and I could see myself researching things that struck me as odd, so that I would have my own knowledge basis to draw from, not just swallow what the media fed me. A healthy curiosity is a good thing, in my opinion, and you can never be too well informed.

I also have to say, I am a bit disturbed by the sentiments that "Yeah, so we don't help other countries, but this is the US of A, by God, and we'll help our own!" Does this exclusivity actually make some people proud?

[babar]

Look at the Yahoo message boards on topics related to the Huricane and the crime wave in New Orleans. There is little Political Correctness on these boards. People say what they really think. The comments are raw and harsh beyond anything you would see on the PC Disney Board.

Yes, the racial mix of the people in New Orleans will effect charity. It is a "unspoken truth" The crime wave will have a major impact to. Many people in New Orleans look like "savages" in the media.

Well, than I stand corrected. I guess I gave Americans too much credit. I thought people could figure out that what they see on tv. doesn't represent the people of NO.

Actually, I guess I feel pretty good about myself that this thought truly never entered my mind. But i guess it's because i'm naive.

[Florida_Mom]

I still have NO IDEA why YOU looked up racial stats on the area when this disaster is going on. I do not care what anyone on this post says, THAT does not make sense to me. You can have blacks in your family all you want. Maybe you should have asked them the racial demographics of NO if it was so intriguing to you.

Jenks, I'm not flaming at all...usually I'm just a pretty quiet DIS member who does more reading than posting, but I really don't understand why it was bad that she looked up demographics for NO?

[padams]

I don't understand what the problem is with looking up the demographics. :confused3 When I was watching on TV all of the people in line to get into the Superdome before the storm hit, I noticed that most people in the line were black and I wondered if NO's demographics were similar to Atlanta where I live.

As far as the effect on fundraising, this country raised millions of dollars to send to the Islamic people in Asia for tsunami relief. Those people aren't caucasian. I don't think fundraising will be significantly affected by NO having a large black population.

[frozone]

I still have NO IDEA why YOU looked up racial stats on the area when this disaster is going on. I do not care what anyone on this post says, THAT does not make sense to me. You can have blacks in your family all you want. Maybe you should have asked them the racial demographics of NO if it was so intriguing to you.

This is the second time you've mentioned this, and I think you're assuming the worst way to quickly.

Consider this: people are watching the news and witnessing this massive tragedy happening within their nation. Suddenly they are struck with the idea that this crowd doesn't look like the melting pot they are used to...when we watched the tragedy on 9/11, we didn't see race because we saw all races and ethnicities fleeing for thier lives- white, black, Asian, Indian, etc.

But, in watching this footage, one realizes that in this particular city, most everyone needing assistance is black. So you begin to ask questions- where is this melting pot of people I expected to see? You got out and who didn't? What are the demographics of the city?

These questions aren't bad! They remind people that in many American neighborhoods, races are still divided. That in cities like NO, there IS a disproportionate number of poor minorities who didn't have the means to leave the city. This is something that many people were perfectly willing to ignore before this tragedy and now can't.

In this hour of tragedy, wouldn't it be nice to think that we could learn more about one another, and realize how we've been failing some of our citizens?

I said this before, but again, I applaud the OP for raising this issue, saying what others were thinking (whether they admit it or not) and trying to understand the situation.

[DawnCt1]

Many people in New Orleans look like "savages" in the media.


Only the people behaving like savages!!

[Aneille]

I don't think the OP was wrong for looking up the demographics of NO. She was trying to become informed.

For whatever reason she noticed that the media was showing mostly black people in their footage. She admitted she is not from a very diverse area and was wondering if the media was being biased or not. She looked it up herself so that she would know the truth. I really don't see the harm in that.

She never said it would affect her donations or how she felt about the people she saw.

I think this discussion is so heated because the disaster is affecting all of us in some way and it truly is a tragedy and most of us don't want to be thinking about race while faced with such disaster.

[bajanswife]

I'm not saying you, i'm saying in general on all these kinds of posts.
And it was meant in a lighthearted way, but guess I'm on the bad side of the DIS now....uh oh..... :moped: (that's me getting out of dodge)

I know what you mean about those kinds of posters (generally on the DIS) ;)

Be glad that you can look at stuff like this and not think of race - that's great! If you are not accustomed to encountering people who DO see race and act differently according to race, then you wouldn't really believe that is does happen. Sad but true. Same is true on my little island - we are far from colourblind here, and a lot like the U.S. South at times.

I understand why your perspective is different - don't feel bad that people are arguing with you. It's just that some of us have seen/heard plenty of stuff to believe that there WILL be racial discrimination going on here, even in the aftermath of such a catastrophe.

Read that thread by vettechick about what her DH has been hearing at his workplace - not only are there racial issues, but "sin city" issues as well. Very, very sad.

[jellymanoffspring]

I also have to say, I am a bit disturbed by the sentiments that "Yeah, so we don't help other countries, but this is the US of A, by God, and we'll help our own!" Does this exclusivity actually make some people proud?

I posted that what we give foreign countries is not a fair comparison ....that in no way should be interprited to say I think more should be given to our own Countrymen/women. Any suffering should be alleviated if we can do so!!

What Americans have done for other countires is an arguement for another day.

My point was that this disaster hit home ,our backyard.....our family if you will..
No one should look at race/creed or any difference...just help as much as they can!!

[ckay87]

I was watching Fox News last night and they were showing footage of a bridge filled with people waiting to get out. The reporter - don't remember who it was - noted the large number of people and said "...every single face an African-American..." (that is a partial, but direct quote)

:sad2:

So yea, there not only ARE people who see race, but also people who are willing to point it out on national TV.

I believe looking up the stats on the area is important. Such research is always important in improving race-relations. Are the large number of black individuals stranded in New Orleans a simple result of population demographics or a result of poverty statistics? In other words, do non-African American folks have more financial means to evacuate? If that's the case, it's time for some improvements.

[Mymatisse]

I have been sifting through these post and I cannot believe the ignorant statements completely BASHING the original poster when nothing more was stated but a valid observation and a really thought provoking question. Maybe it was too thought provoking. Maybe the question hit a little to close to home? That's really the only reason why I imagine it could evoke such a response.

I am black, and let me tell you, I had the exact same thoughts as the orignal poster. That does not make me a racist, nor does that make me care any less about what going on in NOLA, in fact I have family down there that *I* haven't heard from yet. But like so many posters have said, that this is not a perfect world, nor a perfect country. The fact remains that the US media does give less attention to people of color, and poor people because those are not the images they think middle america wants to see or will identify with. Lacy Peterson was in the news for months and everyone knows her name, yet LaToya Figueroa from Philly you hear NOTHING about until recently! Doesn't hurt that Lacy was well off, white, and LaToya was a latina from Philly. But anyway.. my point is, the fact remains there is racism in the media and there's racism in the homes of Americans across the country so to think that the fact that NOLA is a "black" city won't effect in some people's efforts to give NOTICE I DIDN"T SAY YOU I DIDN"T SAY DISERS I SAID SOME.. is delusional!

[deelam]

Please this is not to offend anyone.
I too saw mostly blacks on TV. Though color doesn't matter, we are all people in need. I wonder if what we are seeing on TV are mostly the poor people who couldn'T afford to leave. Would it be possible that most of the poor residents in New Orleans are black? I have a very poor city near me, Camden NJ. That city has a very high Black population, and so many of the people are poor. It could be very simular in New Orleans.

I have decided that once the city is rebuild, I will spend vacation dollars their.

[babar]

I have been sifting through these post and I cannot believe the ignorant statements completely BASHING the original poster when nothing more was stated but a valid observation and a really thought provoking question. Maybe it was too thought provoking. Maybe the question hit a little to close to home? That's really the only reason why I imagine it could evoke such a response.

I am black, and let me tell you, I had the exact same thoughts as the orignal poster. That does not make me a racist, nor does that make me care any less about what going on in NOLA, in fact I have family down there that *I* haven't heard from yet. But like so many posters have said, that this is not a perfect world, nor a perfect country. The fact remains that the US media does give less attention to people of color, and poor people because those are not the images they think middle america wants to see or will identify with. Lacy Peterson was in the news for months and everyone knows her name, yet LaToya Figueroa from Philly you hear NOTHING about until recently! Doesn't hurt that Lacy was well off, white, and LaToya was a latina from Philly. But anyway.. my point is, the fact remains there is racism in the media and there's racism in the homes of Americans across the country so to think that the fact that NOLA is a "black" city won't effect in some people's efforts to give NOTICE I DIDN"T SAY YOU I DIDN"T SAY DISERS I SAID SOME.. is delusional!

yes, that's why I didn't like her post. It hit close to home. I secretly refuse to send money because I am a racist. Thanks helping me get this off my chest. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I love that my posts are outrageous!!! :teeth:

[jellymanoffspring]

I think this discussion is so heated because the disaster is affecting all of us in some way and it truly is a tragedy and most of us don't want to be thinking about race while faced with such disaster.

I think you are right Aneille.... I know I stay away from debates on these Boards.....it was just so upsetting seeing those families in trouble and knowing they had not eaten or had anything to drink ...wonderng how long it will be til they get help/rescued.....

[CheshireVal]

I don't understand what's so wrong with "seeing" race anyway? :confused3 It shouldn't matter if you see people in black and white... it's your attitude towards them and it's how you treat them that really counts.

I can't believe how many people here are proclaiming themselves to be completely color blind. :rolleyes:

[babar]

I don't understand what's so wrong with "seeing" race anyway? :confused3 It shouldn't matter if you see people in black and white... it's your attitude towards them and it's how you treat them that really counts.

I can't believe how many people here are proclaiming themselves to be completely color blind. :rolleyes:


Who? Who said racism doesn't exist? Please.....give me a break. To me, it wasn't the question to be asked now.

Good God, and for all those people that "know" people who arent' going to give because of it, I would hope you have as much anger and disgust with them as you do with smokers!!! :teeth:

[phorsenuf]

I've been thinking alot about this thead and I think I understand what the OP is getting at. When I saw footage I too saw alot of black people. I live in NH and in my area I can count the number of black people I see in a year in town on one hand. When you are so disconnected from seeing a "melting pot" on a constant basis you can't help but notice. If this happened say in a highly asian populated area I couldn't help but see alot of Asians.
This doesn't make me racist because this is what I see, its just a scene I am unfamiliar with.
I would tend to guess that alot of people who live in areas where there is a sparse population of black people unfortunatly may group all black people in that area in the same catorgory as the "bad seeds" they see on TV. (Sorry for that looong sentance).
It's a shame but I think its a fact. We tend to fear the things we are not familiar with.
Will it hurt contributions? Maybe, but lets pray not!

P.S. I thought it was a very good question and I applaud the OP for having the nerve to ask it. Sometimes to much PC correctness is not a good thing if we are afraid to ask questions. Whats that saying about the only dumb question is the question you don't ask? (Something like that)

[va32h]

Are the large number of black individuals stranded in New Orleans a simple result of population demographics or a result of poverty statistics? In other words, do non-African American folks have more financial means to evacuate?

I think that's a valid question. Because there are many people - including here on the idyllic DIS - who have asked "why didn't they leave, why didn't they leave"?

And before someone comes along and says (as they inevitably will) and says "even if they were poor, they could have gone to the dome" my question is: do you think that a person's socio-economic status has any effect on how they perceive the government? Specifically in this case - how much they "trust" the warnings to get out or seek shelter?

Or in the very poor areas - are we sure that everyone even had a television or radio to see & hear the news and understand the severity of the problem?

Or how about the idea that people who have very little might be disproportionately concerned about the little property that they have?

I know that I can replace all my property - eventually. But I haven't grown up in a project, living in and looking at abject poverty all my life. I am quite optimistic about my chances to regain employment and rebuild my life. For someone who has never had the luxury of hope - I can see why they would choose to stay with what little they had, rather than risk everything on a future that may have seemed utterly hopeless.

Unfortunately, in a community where the poorest people are the people of color, issues of poverty and race become inextricably linked.

For the record - I am white. And while this means that I do not have any clue how it feels to be discriminated against because of my race, it also means that I am in a position to hear a lot of the horribly hateful things that some white people say when they think they are safe among their peers.

[cardaway]

I can't believe how many people here are proclaiming themselves to be completely color blind. :rolleyes:

I know the racial split in the area didn't even enter my mind until people started quoting the stats. In fact I'm shocked at the racial divide in the area. I would have thought it was closer to 50/50.

Personally I believe the counrty is doing pretty good on the racial equality front until things like this happen and everybody starts acting like we're immediately back in the 1800's. And I'm not talking actions, just comments like nobody can really be "color blind". Yes we can! Especially if we were never part of a time or place when we were not, and especially when everybody stops making it an issue and allows it to be possible.

[frozone]

My point was that this disaster hit home ,our backyard.....our family if you will..
No one should look at race/creed or any difference...just help as much as they can!!

and nobody here is disputing that. Of course they SHOULD. I agree that we should expect the best from Americans, but also be prepared for the fact that some of them will let us down. And it's comforting to know that this "some" is becoming a smaller minority day by day.

In the meantime, the best way to confront racism is to identify it when we see it...we have to acknowledge it if we are going to fix it.

[babar]

and nobody here is disputing that. Of course they SHOULD. I agree that we should expect the best from Americans, but also be prepared for the fact that some of them will let us down. And it's comforting to know that this "some" is becoming a smaller minority day by day.

In the meantime, the best way to confront racism is to identify it when we see it...we have to acknowledge it if we are going to fix it.


......I agree with your statement. But my whole point was why is this even being brought up right now? I don't know ANYONE who thought of this as a race issue. I don't think most Americans were (I guess they do now with the looting :rolleyes: ) considering race at this point. THAT shows to me that if you are thinking about that issue at this time.....then we really do have a loooong way to go with race issues.

All of this calling those who disagreed (or just plain didn't feel it was the time to talk about) "colorblind", "ignorant", "politically correct" is bullcrap.
It really just shows the ignorance on your part.

[CheshireVal]

......I agree with your statement. But my whole point was why is this even being brought up right now? I don't know ANYONE who thought of this as a race issue. I don't think most Americans were (I guess they do now with the looting :rolleyes: ) considering race at this point.

All of this calling those who disagreed (or just plain didn't feel it was the time to talk about) "colorblind", "ignorant", "politically correct" is bullcrap.
It really just shows the ignorance on your part.

Why isn't this the time to ask intelligent and thought-provoking questions?

I mean, if we were homeless and walking down I-10 with everything we owned on our backs, that might be an inappropriate time. Or if we were working in a hospital trying to save victims, that might be inappropriate.

But, as far as I can tell, most of us are sitting here bored at work or either at home with nothing else better to do than talk about things on the Dis boards. :confused3

[Buckalew11]

I am sorry to read this morning that people are still taking the OP wrong. With all my heart I don't believe she was being rascist asking her questions.

[jellymanoffspring]

and nobody here is disputing that. Of course they SHOULD. I agree that we should expect the best from Americans, but also be prepared for the fact that some of them will let us down. And it's comforting to know that this "some" is becoming a smaller minority day by day.

In the meantime, the best way to confront racism is to identify it when we see it...we have to acknowledge it if we are going to fix it.

I totally agree with you Dave!!
I was responding to someone who twisted what I said to make it seem like I think we should only help Americans!!

I truly hope that the "some" is becoming a smaller minority and I absoulutely agree we must acknowledge and confront racism....
I believe that everyone Pre-judges people and that we should all think about why we look at sitiuations in a certain way....

[phorsenuf]

......I agree with your statement. But my whole point was why is this even being brought up right now? I don't know ANYONE who thought of this as a race issue. I don't think most Americans were (I guess they do now with the looting :rolleyes: ) considering race at this point. THAT shows to me that if you are thinking about that issue at this time.....then we really do have a loooong way to go with race issues.

All of this calling those who disagreed (or just plain didn't feel it was the time to talk about) "colorblind", "ignorant", "politically correct" is bullcrap.
It really just shows the ignorance on your part.


Why can't it be brought up right now? Its a valid question. Everyone is discussing all sorts of things regarding this disaster. Its a current issue. Is it a good time to be discussing the politics of this storm? Heck should people even be discussing their planned trips to Disney? I mean afterall, that could be considered crass by some people. How dare they think about themselves at this time.

I mean really, is there ever a good time discuss hot topics. If she brought this up in say a month and asked do you think racial issues contributed to the small amount of money sent to the disaster relief she would have probably been blasted then too. I could just "hear" that discussion now. I bet dollars to donuts it would have been a lot more heated!

[babar]

I am sorry to read this morning that people are still taking the OP wrong. With all my heart I don't believe she was being rascist asking her questions.


I don't think she is racist either. I am honestly surprised by the question.
I am honestly surprised people find that so hard to believe. May I apologize to the OP for calling your question dumb.

And Cheshire Val.....I guess people don't have anything better to do, you are right. But please don't tell me this is mostly an intelligent discussion. :) On anyone's side.

[babar]

Why can't it be brought up right now? Its a valid question. Everyone is discussing all sorts of things regarding this disaster. Its a current issue. Is it a good time to be discussing the politics of this storm? Heck should people even be discussing their planned trips to Disney? I mean afterall, that could be considered crass by some people. How dare they think about themselves at this time.

I mean really, is there ever a good time discuss hot topics. If she brought this up in say a month and asked do you think racial issues contributed to the small amount of money sent to the disaster relief she would have probably been blasted then too. I could just "hear" that discussion now. I bet dollars to donuts it would have been a lot more heated!

You know what gang? I wish to god I could sit face to face with you guys and discuss this. I can't type out my thoughts very well. I have been called ignorant, colorblind (as if that's an insult), etc.....luckily people behind computers don't bother me, but I can't explain myself over and over.
:)

[Buckalew11]

I'm having the same problem. It is a touchy subject anyway. But I was just thinking--in RL we could really share our thoughts and feelings better.

[CheshireVal]

And Cheshire Val.....I guess people don't have anything better to do, you are right. But please don't tell me this is mostly an intelligent discussion. :) On anyone's side.


Yeah, but it *could've* been an intelligent discussion, though.

[poohandwendy]

You know what gang? I wish to god I could sit face to face with you guys and discuss this. I can't type out my thoughts very well. I have been called ignorant, colorblind (as if that's an insult), etc.....luckily people behind computers don't bother me, but I can't explain myself over and over.
:)Throwing Babar a lifeline here.... How ironic to be bashed for not seeing color in this tragedy. How sad that some people really think that is impossible or not genuine.

Babar, I totally understand what you are saying. For once, it would be nice if this issue did not come up in the midst of a tragedy. I think that is all babar is really saying for petes sake...

[jellymanoffspring]

Throwing Babar a lifeline here.... How ironic to be bashed for not seeing color in this tragedy. How sad that some people really think that is impossible or not genuine.

Babar, I totally understand what you are saying. For once, it would be nice if this issue did not come up in the midst of a tragedy. I think that is all babar is really saying for petes sake...

Very nice post and I agree!!!!

[snoopy]

Interestingly enough as I was driving to work this morning, I was listening to a local talk radio program (the Sports Junkies, for anyone in D.C. who might be reading), and they had this same discussion. A caller called in and said "hey, did you see that white looter?" and the sports junkies said "no", to which the white caller replied, "neither did I". They went on to discuss the demographics in NOLA and how the majority of folks living in the city and being portrayed in the media were black. Whether people like it or not, it is being discussed.

[snoopy]

I think that's a valid question. Because there are many people - including here on the idyllic DIS - who have asked "why didn't they leave, why didn't they leave"?

And before someone comes along and says (as they inevitably will) and says "even if they were poor, they could have gone to the dome" my question is: do you think that a person's socio-economic status has any effect on how they perceive the government? Specifically in this case - how much they "trust" the warnings to get out or seek shelter?

Or in the very poor areas - are we sure that everyone even had a television or radio to see & hear the news and understand the severity of the problem?

Or how about the idea that people who have very little might be disproportionately concerned about the little property that they have?

I know that I can replace all my property - eventually. But I haven't grown up in a project, living in and looking at abject poverty all my life. I am quite optimistic about my chances to regain employment and rebuild my life. For someone who has never had the luxury of hope - I can see why they would choose to stay with what little they had, rather than risk everything on a future that may have seemed utterly hopeless.

Unfortunately, in a community where the poorest people are the people of color, issues of poverty and race become inextricably linked.

For the record - I am white. And while this means that I do not have any clue how it feels to be discriminated against because of my race, it also means that I am in a position to hear a lot of the horribly hateful things that some white people say when they think they are safe among their peers.

Is there any question why I think you are a voice of reason? :) Well said.

Another consideration -- poor people are usually very mistrustful of banks. They usually keep any money they have in their homes or on their person. Its quite possible some people simply felt they could not abandon what little they had -- the shelters that were specifically set up ahead of time to bring only what you could carry -- no pets or extras, and obviously one wouldn't want to be carrying their life's savings while staying in a shelter. I think its entirely possible people just felt they could not gamble with everything they had, they had to be in their homes to protect it.

[phorsenuf]

You know what gang? I wish to god I could sit face to face with you guys and discuss this. I can't type out my thoughts very well. I have been called ignorant, colorblind (as if that's an insult), etc.....luckily people behind computers don't bother me, but I can't explain myself over and over.
:)

Why are you quoting me? I was not insulting to you nor did I call you a name. I'm just curious why this discussion should be off-limits and gave my thoughts on it. I certainly wasn't being mean to you. :confused3

[cardaway]

Throwing Babar a lifeline here.... How ironic to be bashed for not seeing color in this tragedy. How sad that some people really think that is impossible or not genuine.

Babar, I totally understand what you are saying. For once, it would be nice if this issue did not come up in the midst of a tragedy. I think that is all babar is really saying for petes sake...


I agree as well. There are times when I'm quite sure the number one thing keeping things from getting better race issues are the people bringing the issue up in the first place.

[lulugirl]

The question was legit and not racist at all. The responses were overly sensitive and downright rude.
I agree.

[TeresaNJ]

I am going to try to explain this the best that I can. It bothers me alot that this question was even asked by the OP, even though she has that right. It bothers me because I cannot believe that people would withhold donating simply because of the color of one's skin. This question simply never came to my mind. Did I notice that the majority of people being rescued were non-caucasion? Yes, obviously, you'd have to be color-blind not to notice, but it still didn't cause me to think anything other than how horrible their situation is right now. For goodness sake, these people's suffering is right in front of your face; how could one not donate if they were able to. I felt insulted by the OP's question, not personally, but as a country; I still can't believe there are people who think like this. Maybe I'm naive and live in a fairytale land. I still believe that people respond to suffering no matter what the skin color, and I'd like to believe the majority of my fellow Americans feel that way. We're all human beings, not white/black/yellow or whatever.

[toto2]

Why can't it be brought up right now? Its a valid question. Everyone is discussing all sorts of things regarding this disaster. Its a current issue. Is it a good time to be discussing the politics of this storm? Heck should people even be discussing their planned trips to Disney? I mean afterall, that could be considered crass by some people. How dare they think about themselves at this time.

I mean really, is there ever a good time discuss hot topics. If she brought this up in say a month and asked do you think racial issues contributed to the small amount of money sent to the disaster relief she would have probably been blasted then too. I could just "hear" that discussion now. I bet dollars to donuts it would have been a lot more heated!

I think that it is important to discuss that too because it forces us to see where we could be biased , or racist ( even on an incousious level) The actions to help have to be taken now , and we cannot afford to have those things in the way , that could stop us from helping.


I know , that seen from here in Montréal , were we do have etnic diversity , but caucasian is a vast majority , when I saw the pictures from N-O , my first tought was , this is in Africa , these are the images we see comming from those countries. Then , most ( not all , but most) stories of survival etc we saw on NBC , CBS , and ABC were caucasian. I dont have Fox news or MSNBC so , i dont know there take on it.


As far as we are racist , we are color blind etc...I think that very few people are totaly color blind. We react to people we dont know according to what we see around us. In movies and TV , while there are a lot of good role models from african Americans , my feeling is that they are still portrayed very often as the bad guy , very scary person . That feeds us. Same thing for gay people: they are portayed as flamboyant , so , as soon as we see a man that is not in " the norms" we automatically assume he is gay ( I know , I am gay and I do it !) And when we meet a gay man that is a policeman , a firefither , a soldier , a football player , we are all surprised , even us gay people , because we receive from the world the same images as the rest of the world. As someone sais before , it is how we respond By acceting it or fighting it) to this feeling that makes us a racist , or bigots.

[deelam]

Why are so many black people living in poor areas. Doesn't that point to an underlying problem?

[Sammie]

If you truly do not think it matters, then that is because you have lived where it does not matter.

As to what has happened in N.O., as stated most of the poor are minorities and could not afford to leave. Many did not have cars, many are sick, old and not able to leave. And someone had a very good point, that many stayed to try and protect what little they had. Many do not have TVs, etc. They don't have computers, they don't have anything.

Certainly what is happening at the Superdome is not helping the image of people in need. No one is going to want to help a raving lunatic, that in the process of trying to be helped is killing the helpers.

But please do not comment about race issues, unless you have lived it.

[Florida_Mom]

To quote what Rodney King said once,

"Can't we all just get along?" :)

I know all of us can agree that there should be no racial divides when it comes to giving money. Should being the operative word here. But other DISers are hearing vague or not so vague racial comments on the radio, one DISer hears a commentator say something on the TV, another DISer in another thread posts about comments her spouse is hearing at work, America IS talking about race, and that's where we are. So I guess that's our starting point. Is it ideal? No. Is it colorblind? No. Will it effect giving? Hard to say.

But the broader point is that we need to be having civil conversations about race in this country, about poverty, about how to evacuate people that historically are reluctant to go, and what to do in the aftermath. All of these are sort of mish mashed together, and it's uncomfortable, and it's in the midst of a crisis, and everyone is stressed.

But just seeing race and talking about it shouldn't be bad or feared. But it is seen that way, I think. Why is that? Can we not have a conversation about demographics, and historical patterns of behavior, and current needs?

I'm not trying to pick on anyone. I think the OP raised a point that was on target, and yet really uncomfortable.

[raidermatt]

It bothers me alot that this question was even asked by the OP, even though she has that right. It bothers me because I cannot believe that people would withhold donating simply because of the color of one's skin.

Regardless of what any of us want to believe, there are people out there who think that way. If those of us who would never withhold due to the color of the victims' skin don't ask these questions, who will?

Ignoring the fact that these issues exist will not make them go away.

At the same time, raising the issue for discussion does not mean that person "thinks that way". It simply means they realize that others do.

[DisneyCowgirl]

To all those who think that topics like this should not be discussed--Racism is an issue, no, it's a PROBLEM in Louisiana. If it can never be talked about or even recognized, how will the problem ever get better? We cannot just pretend that the problem does not exist.

I wish that it was true that no one would see color when they see the suffering on the news, but the FACT is that plenty of people in the south do see that. You can argue all day long that it is wrong and that you are outraged, and you would be 100% right, but it does not change the fact that it is true.

[TeresaNJ]

You're right, raidermatt. I reread the OP's question, and I realize that the question she asked is a valid question. I was just shocked to realize that this could possibly happen. I happen to live in an area where there are as many upper-income folks of all colors as there are low-lifes of all colors. Therefore, skin color just doesn't come into play for me. I can see where the media might color (no pun intended) some people's opinions of the worthiness of donating since alot of the footage they are seeing are of the looters, who happen to be black because the majority of the people living in that area are black. Living close to several major cities, I know looters come in all shapes, sizes and colors.

[babar]

Throwing Babar a lifeline here.... How ironic to be bashed for not seeing color in this tragedy. How sad that some people really think that is impossible or not genuine.

Babar, I totally understand what you are saying. For once, it would be nice if this issue did not come up in the midst of a tragedy. I think that is all babar is really saying for petes sake...


thanks. i'm not even going to bother to post anymore because whatever i was trying to say has been mixed up and points people are making now aren't even relating to what i was talking about.

[totalia]

Yes but race shouldn't even be a factor. Granted, I don't live in the south. But honestly, it shouldn't even occur to someone. People shouldn't be seeing race. They should be seeing people.

Thats the point.

Not to mention, the OP said she was in one of the northern states, not Louisiana.

People need to get over this race crap. There is only the human race. Everyone else is just people.

[snoopy]

Yes but race shouldn't even be a factor. Granted, I don't live in the south. But honestly, it shouldn't even occur to someone. People shouldn't be seeing race. They should be seeing people.

Thats the point.

Not to mention, the OP said she was in one of the northern states, not Louisiana.

People need to get over this race crap. There is only the human race. Everyone else is just people.

But the point IS it is a factor in the deep south. Race often separates the haves and have-nots, that is why you are seeing all the white people evacuated and all the black people still there.

[raidermatt]

Yes but race shouldn't even be a factor. Granted, I don't live in the south. But honestly, it shouldn't even occur to someone. People shouldn't be seeing race. They should be seeing people.

Thats the point.

And its a wonderful point.

Nonetheless, racism IS an issue, and not just in the south. The fact that we have to understand that and deal with it is also a very valid point, if an unfortunate one.

[deelam]

People can't help but see color. I can see someone's skin color. That is part of who they are. The thing is that when you get to know a person, wheather black or white you see that skin color doesn't matter. It's the person that matters. I am white. I can honestly say that there are 2 black women that I work with who are true friends to me. I would trust these woman with my life. As a matter of fact, most of the black people I know are great people. They all have had to work so hard, and because of it they are so real. I am proud to call them friends. However I see predjudice all around. The talk around many whites that I work with is just down right mean about "all the blacks looting". Clearly people have a long way to go on race relations.

[Maleficent13]

And its a wonderful point.

Nonetheless, racism IS an issue, and not just in the south. The fact that we have to understand that and deal with it is also a very valid point, if an unfortunate one.

::yes:: It's all well and good to say what we "should" or "shouldn't" see, think or do. Yes, we "should" all be colorblind. But the fact of the matter is, a lot of people aren't. And for any of us to say, "Everyone should be colorblind and we shouldn't even be having this discussion" is simply hiding in the sand. Saying the problem shouldn't exist wouldn't make it disappear. JMHO.

[deelam]

I also got to say that all those looters they are showing on TV, who happen to be black, scare the HELL out of me. I wouldn't want to be near them for fear they would rob me.

[babar]

one more thing....for all of you who sit there assuming that I'm "afraid" to discuss racism, you are way off point. I'm willing to bet lot's that I have had and will have more heated discussion on race and other issues than most of you.

This is a situation where I felt the discussion was not warranted at this time.
So please, get off your high horses and stop explaining to me how I need to "open my eyes."

[ladycollector]

I'm having the same problem. It is a touchy subject anyway. But I was just thinking--in RL we could really share our thoughts and feelings better.

Yes. People get a liiittle too brave with their comments online. (not speaking of the OP)

[babar]

Yes. People get a liiittle too brave with their comments online. (not speaking of the OP)

I would looove to talk about this in person. I don't think I'm being brave with my comments, just trying to explain myself. Obviously I'm not doing a very good job. :)

[jgmklmhem]

I think the OP's question is valid because there will be people who won't donate because of race, nationality, New Orleans Sin City image etc. There is another thread from a Canadian saying she sent and email trying to collect goods and she got hate mail back saying amoungst other things "Why should we help the Americans?" Maybe the question was asked by the OP so that she in her mind might donate a little more to help offset these other people who aren't donating due to these reasons.

[arminnie]

Are the large number of black individuals stranded in New Orleans a simple result of population demographics or a result of poverty statistics? In other words, do non-African American folks have more financial means to evacuate?

I have a home in New Orleans and have spent a lot of the last 40 years there.

You are seeing the people left behind - yes they are mostly the poor.

But please don't assume that is a valid representation of blacks in New Orleans. New Orleans has VERY healthy and active upper and middle classes in the black community.

Look at Ray Nagin, the mayor, he is MUCH more representative of blacks in New Orleans than the riffraff you are seeing on TV.

There are so many, many, many educated and successful blacks in New Orleans. You are not seeing them on TV because they evacuated. This is about poverty not color.

[totalia]

Yes but the OP isn't from the deep south. Which is my point. Why is that being brought up? The reason people don't like the question is because it shouldn't be a factor. Its been mentioned in a thread pertaining to the OP who isn't even part of the deep south your talking about.

Why is it?

yes, its an issue in the deep south. But how does that apply to what the OP posted when the OP isn't from the deep south?

[snoopy]

I have a home in New Orleans and have spent a lot of the last 40 years there.

You are seeing the people left behind - yes they are mostly the poor.

But please don't assume that is a valid representation of blacks in New Orleans. New Orleans has VERY healthy and active upper and middle classes in the black community.

Look at Ray Nagin, the mayor, he is MUCH more representative of blacks in New Orleans than the riffraff you are seeing on TV.

There are so many, many, many educated and successful blacks in New Orleans. You are not seeing them on TV because they evacuated. This is about poverty not color.

It is my understanding that the mayor is NOT African American but Creole, and apparently that makes an enormous distinction in class differences in everything from where you live to where your kids go to school.

I'm sure there are many educated and succesful blacks of all ancestry in NOLA, but I'm also sure race relations are a lot different in the deep south than they are in other parts of the country.

[va32h]

yes, its an issue in the deep south. But how does that apply to what the OP posted when the OP isn't from the deep south?

It's an issue everywhere.

I am one of the people who referenced the south - and I'll be honest, I did it because I knew that people would be more willing to listen to my argument if I went with the stereotypical "racist south" than if I declared that racism exists in all parts of this country.

My sister in law is black; she and my brother live in an affluent suburb of Phoenix, AZ. She has experienced racism, as have her children, my niece and nephew.

I used to live in Las Vegas, NV. My boss was a black man - and visitors to our office would freuently assume he was a delivery person or maintenance man, or even lost in his own office. I was even asked once or twice (always in a whisper) how I could work for a black man.

My husband grew up in Chicago - and he could tell you a think or two about the racial divide there.

But again, again, again - the point of this thread is (IMO at least) to shine a light on the social and economic issues that exists in this country and how they affect us in times of crisis.

OF COURSE people shouldn't be prejudiced. OF COURSE help should be given wherever it is needed and to whomever needs it. Is there anyone here who has actually said otherwise? Why are we arguing about something that nobody has said?

[snoopy]

You make good points, va32h, but I still don't think you've seen true division between the races until you've lived in the south. My brother and his wife, a mixed race couple, lived in Mississippi for a very short period after they first married. The stories they told us of how they were openly discriminated against (from both whites and blacks) would make your hair stand on end. In that part of the country, people are expected to stick with their own kind and mixing of the races is not taken to favorably. Here in D.C., they have never experienced any sort of discrimination at all, in fact, many of their neighbors are mixed race couples as well.

[totalia]

Thank you for making that clearer.

Maybe its just a failing of me, but i just don't see color when I look at people. It wouldn't even have occured to me.

[Beauty]

In that part of the country, people are expected to stick with their own kind and mixing of the races is not taken to favorably

As sad as it sounds thats the absolute truth. Discrimination is very much alive and well down here. White on Black and Black on White. You can't just say the poor black people are being discriminated against because believe me the poor black people are being just as discrimanatory against the white. Where I live the majority of the city government is black. It is very CLEAR that our mayor for one will not be happy until the entire city is run by the blacks meaning NOT ONE white person to represent the white interests (and yes it is split like that.) It's sad! It's a really really sad situation. We had a basketball free throw contest and some black girls were picking on the girls from our school and had them in tears saying really mean things.

I try so so hard to never be racist but I just wanted to say IT IS NOT ONE SIDED!!!!! I live here!!!!! I see it EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!!!! Would it be wonderful to not see color? You bet it would! I consider myself a really nice person and I have friends of BOTH colors but when the LEADERS of communities are racist then where do you go and what do you do?

Honestly what we do is try to live our lifes outside of politics here in the south. Stick to our church, our friends and our lives and count the hours until we can move away from here. That is the HONEST truth and you can take it however you want.

[toto2]

I've have just read something intresting about the different subjects we have just discussed on this thread ( why didn't they leave , race , etc.

A few quaotes about race and poverty were very interesting and I relay them to you , with the link to the whole piece:

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0901-31.htm

"A few days ago, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco ordered the evacuation of New Orleans, an event which proceeded, according to many accounts, in a remarkably orderly fashion. As it turned out, however, about 20% of residents did not "choose" to leave town--a fact that the governor publicly grumbled about after the levees were compromised, the city inundated and those "left behind" put at risk for their lives in the floodwaters and sweltering heat.

One observant commentator noted that the evacuation was indeed very efficiently run "if you had a car." Those left behind were drawn disproportionately from the 30% of the city's residents who are chronically poor. They had no cars, Governor.

An astute downtown New Orleans attorney interviewed on National Public Radio noted from the safety of a friend's house a safe distance from town that Katrina had happened at the end of the month, "when many of the poor have run out of funds." Put these facts of no cars and no cash together with some typical copying strategies for surviving chronic poverty and gaping holes in public services and infrastructure and it becomes all too clear why many impoverished and disproportionately Black citizens of New Orleans didn't "choose" to evacuate.

It's harrowing enough to leave town in one's reliable vehicle armed with luggage, credit cards and cash, bound for some well-heeled friend or relative who lives at a higher elevation. It's quite another thing to leave with no cash, no car, no credit and no out of town relatives with room to spare. Poor people without employment typically depend on very local resources for their survival, especially when money and food stamps run out. Even in the most generous northern states, public assistance checks usually run out in the middle of the third week of the month no matter how good at budgeting a mother may be. The last ten days of the month are spent trading what resources you have for what you need, calling on those who owe you a favor, asking for leniency in paying for necessities and pawning the few worthy possessions you own. And waiting for the check.

All of these coping strategies require that poor people remain in close proximity to those on whom they must depend for survival. Katrina caught New Orleans' poor just in the most desperate phase of this depressing monthly struggle for survival. As someone who has spent a dozen years listening to the stories of people who have become homeless in less dramatic fashion than the citizens of New Orleans just did, it was no surprise to me that the poor mostly remained home or made their way to the local shelter--the Superdome. Where was the government before the levees broke with buses and trains, assurances about shelters far away, food and cash vouchers for necessities? For many poor people the risk of leaving far outweighed the risk of staying--at least until the levees broke and water poured into their neighborhoods. And by then it was too late."

[babar]

Well, I have some back-tracking to do. As of i've read and heard people's conversations (not just here so calm down), I am really finding out how much hidden racism there is.

I guess I thought people were better than that, but I guess you are right. But it's nice to know that not everyone is like that. :)

This whole situation is sooo sad.

[Aneille]

This whole situation is sooo sad.

So true.

[raidermatt]

Yes but the OP isn't from the deep south. Which is my point. Why is that being brought up?

The OP brought up race in the context of whether it would impact donations. Donations potentially come from all areas, including those with higher levels of racism. Therefore even if we assumed that there was not visible racism in the Northwest, it would still be a relevant question to ask in the Northwest.

Maybe its just a failing of me, but i just don't see color when I look at people. It wouldn't even have occured to me.

Of course its not a failing. But its also not a failing to not see color, but observe how others do see it. And its not just in the South. I have relatives in Lousiana (all safe), and have visited there, and absolutely racism is more prevelant there than here in the SF Bay Area.

So if I know that racism does play into the decisions of some (and I have definitely seen it happen here in CA as well), how can it not come into my mind?

If you've been fortunate enough to not see those types of things, I am truly happy for you, and understand your personal perspective. But I (nor the OP or anybody else) is any more racist than you are just because we have seen such things and know they do affect what goes on at times.

[Cindyluwho]

One of the things that has struck me in these many posts is that many of you say you are "colorblind" or "do not see color". I have to say bullpucky. That's just not possible. It doesn't mean the color of a person's skin is relevant, but it is noticable.

To keep it lighthearted, let's use this example:
I (and most red blooded females over 15) believe that Denzel Washington is a hunk. If I were to describe him to someone who had never seen him, "He's a tall, gorgeous, black man with incredible brown eyes" (I could go on & on, but you get my drift). If I were describing Tom Cruise I would probably say "The short, brown haired guy with the great body" etc. BTW-wayyyy off topic but Tom Cruise is not even half as hot as Denzel, but that's for a whole 'nother thread.... Nicole kidman would be described as a redhead, etc. It's an observation, not prejudice. But to say we don't notice it????? That's like saying we don't notice Marky Mark's behind. I mean, c'mon you guys, you notice.

[babar]

One of the things that has struck me in these many posts is that many of you say you are "colorblind" or "do not see color". I have to say bullpucky. That's just not possible. It doesn't mean the color of a person's skin is relevant, but it is noticable.

To keep it lighthearted, let's use this example:
I (and most red blooded females over 15) believe that Denzel Washington is a hunk. If I were to describe him to someone who had never seen him, "He's a tall, gorgeous, black man with incredible brown eyes" (I could go on & on, but you get my drift). If I were describing Tom Cruise I would probably say "The short, brown haired guy with the great body" etc. BTW-wayyyy off topic but Tom Cruise is not even half as hot as Denzel, but that's for a whole 'nother thread.... Nicole kidman would be described as a redhead, etc. It's an observation, not prejudice. But to say we don't notice it????? That's like saying we don't notice Marky Mark's behind. I mean, c'mon you guys, you notice.

try reading back some of the replies from some of us and actually understanding them before you keep up on this.

[Sammie]

You make good points, va32h, but I still don't think you've seen true division between the races until you've lived in the south. My brother and his wife, a mixed race couple, lived in Mississippi for a very short period after they first married. The stories they told us of how they were openly discriminated against (from both whites and blacks) would make your hair stand on end. In that part of the country, people are expected to stick with their own kind and mixing of the races is not taken to favorably. Here in D.C., they have never experienced any sort of discrimination at all, in fact, many of their neighbors are mixed race couples as well.

Thank you for your comment. Racism in the South is not limited to whites. It can be black/white, it can be black/hispanic, it can even be black/black.

My point is this, it's easy to make statements about a situation, but until you live that situation you truly do not understand.

[tiggersmom2]

One of the things that has struck me in these many posts is that many of you say you are "colorblind" or "do not see color". I have to say bullpucky. That's just not possible. It doesn't mean the color of a person's skin is relevant, but it is noticable.

To keep it lighthearted, let's use this example:
I (and most red blooded females over 15) believe that Denzel Washington is a hunk. If I were to describe him to someone who had never seen him, "He's a tall, gorgeous, black man with incredible brown eyes" (I could go on & on, but you get my drift). If I were describing Tom Cruise I would probably say "The short, brown haired guy with the great body" etc. BTW-wayyyy off topic but Tom Cruise is not even half as hot as Denzel, but that's for a whole 'nother thread.... Nicole kidman would be described as a redhead, etc. It's an observation, not prejudice. But to say we don't notice it????? That's like saying we don't notice Marky Mark's behind. I mean, c'mon you guys, you notice.

Sure I see color but when I am donating to a cause......I do not. I do not wonder which race will be helped by my donation but rather I just hope it helps the victims....no matter the color.

[Cindyluwho]

So, it's ok for them to notice but not for me? hmmmm...


Updated: 9:54 a.m. ET Sept. 2, 2005
NEW YORK - Sean “Diddy” Combs and Jay-Z have pledged $1 million to the American Red Cross to help victims of Hurricane Katrina.

The two rappers announced their donation Thursday, saying they hoped to inspire others, especially blacks, to give.

“This is our community,” Shawn “Jay-Z” Carter told The Associated Press by phone. “When I turn on CNN, I see a lot of black people on the streets. I know it’s other people too, but those projects have been hit hard.”

[pmcpmc]

I bet she wouldnt be looking up the stats of Beverly Hills if they had a flood. She would be content that all the white faces belong there. (sickening)
its pretty clear if it were Beverly Hills it would not have taken four days to send help.
Federal help is an absolute disgrace.

[arminnie]

It is my understanding that the mayor is NOT African American but Creole, and apparently that makes an enormous distinction in class differences in everything from where you live to where your kids go to school.

Snoopy I KNOW that you don't mean it this way but to make a statement that someone is Creole not black is to imply that they are "better" because they have white blood, and it is EXTREMELY offensive. I am TOTALLY sure that is not what you meant.

Ray Nagin is definitely black. To not call him black (as he identifies himself) would mean than most of the "blacks" in America are not really black as they are of mixed racial heritage. There are very few "pure" African-Americans in the U.S. Much of the mixing of racing is from horrible things that happened during slavery, but not all of it.

Would you say that Halle Berry is not black? One parent is white and one is black.

As to race relations and violence - how is New Orleans all that different from Washington, D.C.? Large black population - many educated and successful blacks but a huge problem with impoverished blacks caught in a cycle of despair.

"Creole" hasn't really had a real meaning since slavery was abolished. Creole used to mean the offspring of a European (usually French) person and a black person. They were not slaves. New Orleans had many free persons of color even before the civil war. Think of white rich men and their beautiful black mistresses and the children they produced.

When there were racial laws (yuk) there were strict definitions of race defined by the percentage of black that one was. Creole in today's world usually just means from Louisiana.

Forty years ago (I was there then) there was much more racial discrimination WITHIN THE BLACK COMMUNITY. No question that lighter blacks had more opportunities, but it wasn't from the white community. In fact LA at that time had laws that basically said that if you had as much as "one drop" of black blood then you must be considered black.

And if you were black you went to the black schools during the days of segregation. Whites didn't care how light one was, black was still black.

I remember being shocked when a black friend told me that her fiance's family was very much against their marriage because she was "too dark."

In 2005 I know many, many successful, educated blacks of all skin tones. Yes, if a black person has a parent who is a doctor they are going to have more opportunities than the black person who has a parent in the projects. But that is poverty and it's effects. That black child of a professional has a lot more opportunity than the white child from the projects.

from an article I found:
"Always a controversial and confusing term, the word Creole, to put it simply, means many things to many people. It derives from the Latin creare, meaning "to beget" or "create."

After the New World’s discovery, Portuguese colonists used the word crioulo to denote a New World slave of African descent.

Eventually, the word was applied to all New World colonists, regardless of ethnic origin, living along the Gulf Coast, especially in Louisiana. There the Spanish introduced the word as criollo, and during Louisiana’s colonial period (1699-1803) the evolving word Creole generally referred to persons of African or European heritage born in the New World.

By the nineteenth century, black, white, and mixed-race Louisianians used the term to distinguish themselves from foreign-born and Anglo-American settlers. It was during that century that the mixed-race Creoles of Color (or gens de couleur libre, "free persons of color") came into their own as an ethnic group, enjoying many of the legal rights and privileges of whites.

They occupied a middle ground between whites and enslaved blacks, and as such often possessed property and received formal educations. After the Civil War, most Creoles of Color lost their privileged status and joined the ranks of impoverished former black slaves.

All the while, however, the word Creole persisted as a term also referring to white Louisianians, usually of upper-class, non-Cajun origin (although, confusingly, even Cajuns sometimes were called Creoles, primarily by outsiders unfamiliar with local ethnic labels). Like the Creoles of Color, these white Creoles (also called French Creoles) suffered socioeconomic decline after the Civil War."

[snoopy]

double post

[snoopy]

Snoopy I KNOW that you don't mean it this way but to make a statement that someone is Creole not black is to imply that they are "better" because they have white blood, and it is EXTREMELY offensive. I am TOTALLY sure that is not what you meant.

Ray Nagin is definitely black. To not call him black (as he identifies himself) would mean than most of the "blacks" in America are not really black as they are of mixed racial heritage. There are very few "pure" African-Americans in the U.S. Much of the mixing of racing is from horrible things that happened during slavery, but not all of it.

Would you say that Halle Berry is not black? One parent is white and one is black.

As to race relations and violence - how is New Orleans all that different from Washington, D.C.? Large black population - many educated and successful blacks but a huge problem with impoverished blacks caught in a cycle of despair.

"Creole" hasn't really had a real meaning since slavery was abolished. Creole used to mean the offspring of a European (usually French) person and a black person. They were not slaves. New Orleans had many free persons of color even before the civil war. Think of white rich men and their beautiful black mistresses and the children they produced.

When there were racial laws (yuk) there were strict definitions of race defined by the percentage of black that one was. Creole in today's world usually just means from Louisiana.

Forty years ago (I was there then) there was much more racial discrimination WITHIN THE BLACK COMMUNITY. No question that lighter blacks had more opportunities, but it wasn't from the white community. In fact LA at that time had laws that basically said that if you had as much as "one drop" of black blood then you must be considered black.

And if you were black you went to the black schools during the days of segregation. Whites didn't care how light one was, black was still black.

I remember being shocked when a black friend told me that her fiance's family was very much against their marriage because she was "too dark."

In 2005 I know many, many successful, educated blacks of all skin tones. Yes, if a black person has a parent who is a doctor they are going to have more opportunities than the black person who has a parent in the projects. But that is poverty and it's effects. That black child of a professional has a lot more opportunity than the white child from the projects.

from an article I found:
"Always a controversial and confusing term, the word Creole, to put it simply, means many things to many people. It derives from the Latin creare, meaning "to beget" or "create."

After the New World’s discovery, Portuguese colonists used the word crioulo to denote a New World slave of African descent.

Eventually, the word was applied to all New World colonists, regardless of ethnic origin, living along the Gulf Coast, especially in Louisiana. There the Spanish introduced the word as criollo, and during Louisiana’s colonial period (1699-1803) the evolving word Creole generally referred to persons of African or European heritage born in the New World.

By the nineteenth century, black, white, and mixed-race Louisianians used the term to distinguish themselves from foreign-born and Anglo-American settlers. It was during that century that the mixed-race Creoles of Color (or gens de couleur libre, "free persons of color") came into their own as an ethnic group, enjoying many of the legal rights and privileges of whites.

They occupied a middle ground between whites and enslaved blacks, and as such often possessed property and received formal educations. After the Civil War, most Creoles of Color lost their privileged status and joined the ranks of impoverished former black slaves.

All the while, however, the word Creole persisted as a term also referring to white Louisianians, usually of upper-class, non-Cajun origin (although, confusingly, even Cajuns sometimes were called Creoles, primarily by outsiders unfamiliar with local ethnic labels). Like the Creoles of Color, these white Creoles (also called French Creoles) suffered socioeconomic decline after the Civil War."

I never said he wasn't black. I said he wasn't African American. My understanding was that black Creole's in NOLA were quick to make the distinction between themselves and black African Americans. And that demographics dictated there was a definate class distinction between the two groups. I certainly was not personalizing it at all, sorry you felt offended arminnie. I've never lived in NOLA and have only visited infrequently (sadly) and I'm only going by what I always understood to be a fact. It appears that you are/were a resident and expert on race relations in NOLA, so I'll take your word for it. I do know that race relations are not the same in D.C. than they are in other parts of the south, and gave the example of my brother and his experience in Mississippi and in D.C.

[Cindyluwho]

arminnie,
Thank you so much for the history lesson. I had no idea where the word Creole came from, it's origins or it's meaning. I always appreciate learning new things, once again thanks.

[arminnie]

Snoopy I wasn't offended at all, but just felt I needed to get that info out there. Sort of like if someone from say Finland using the term "colored" not knowing that it had a bad connotation.
Please don't feel that I was chastising you. Consider it an "informercial".:sunny:

Unfortunately there was a lot of discrimination among blacks (bigoted whites just hated all blacks). I hope it's improved. It's more economic than color these days I think. Open-minded blacks are trying to overcome this just like most whites truly want to overcome past racial injustices.

Have you ever heard of the "grocery sack" test? Many exclusive black clubs would not take a member who's skin was darker than a paper grocery bag. When I first heard about this I thought it was a made up joke, but unfortunately it was true.

I have a home in New Orleans, went to school there, and have made it my second home for forty years. I've been on several boards at Tulane/Newcomb so I get a lot of educational info that they present to us at board meetings. I love that city.

Conditions are horrible but they city will return.

All of you, please come visit when the city opens back up. I'll be your tour guide. And I mean that.

I just got an email while I was writing this from a friend who stayed for the storm. They got out on Wednesday and are in Houston. Wish she'd given me more details.

[totalia]

I'd love to visit New Orleans again. But I think it will be years before I do that. Mostly because, I remember the way it was. And now it would have to change out of neccesity. Its a beautiful city. I think I will give it time to recover before I enter it again. And time for my fiance to recover. The loss has been just incredibly painful for him. New Orleans is his home.

[snoopy]

Snoopy I wasn't offended at all, but just felt I needed to get that info out there. Sort of like if someone from say Finland using the term "colored" not knowing that it had a bad connotation.
Please don't feel that I was chastising you. Consider it an "informercial".:sunny:

Unfortunately there was a lot of discrimination among blacks (bigoted whites just hated all blacks). I hope it's improved. It's more economic than color these days I think. Open-minded blacks are trying to overcome this just like most whites truly want to overcome past racial injustices.

Have you ever heard of the "grocery sack" test? Many exclusive black clubs would not take a member who's skin was darker than a paper grocery bag. When I first heard about this I thought it was a made up joke, but unfortunately it was true.

I have a home in New Orleans, went to school there, and have made it my second home for forty years. I've been on several boards at Tulane/Newcomb so I get a lot of educational info that they present to us at board meetings. I love that city.

Conditions are horrible but they city will return.

All of you, please come visit when the city opens back up. I'll be your tour guide. And I mean that.

I just got an email while I was writing this from a friend who stayed for the storm. They got out on Wednesday and are in Houston. Wish she'd given me more details.

Thanks arminnie. I do feel the need to point out that while you and I are often on different sides of the political fence, I really admire your wealth of knowledge and your calm and rational delivery.

What you were saying about the grocery sack....this is what I was talking about. I was under the impression there was distinction between people of color -- Creoles vs African American, light skin vs. black skin. I was told this by a dear friend who lived in NOLA for many years and worked in the restaurant industry. He eventually went to school to become a chef, but before that, he had other jobs in the kitchen. As an AA man living in NOLA, he said it was very evident to him that those blacks who were of European descent felt superior to those who hailed from Africa, and didn't hesitate to let him know. Perhaps it was just his experience. I do know that he loved NOLA and while he was born and raised in Baltimore, he always considered NOLA his home so I guess he learned to adjust to the discrimination he experienced when he was lower down the ranks in the restaurant industry.