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C.Ann
08-20-2005, 12:20 PM
Started reading this book last night and I'm almost finished today.. Great reading - and pretty much confirms what my Dad always said, "Pay as you go - unless you're going for good.." ;) He was a firm believer in paying cash for everything - including his homes - and he never had a 6-figure income (or anything even close to it).. He was able to leave my Mom extremely well off when he passed away and as kids, we never felt "deprived" or "less than" in any way, shape or form..

I especially liked his analysis of car payments and the monetary advantage of purchasing a car that is 2 years old.. It confirmed my own beliefs to the letter..

If you're interested in living a debt-free life, this is definitely a book that is worth reading.. Even if you're not convinced that it can be done - or that it's in your best interest - take a peek anyhow.. You may be pleasantly surprised! :flower:

mrsgus06
08-20-2005, 12:43 PM
I am a huge fan of Dave Ramsey. We pay cash for everything. Our only credit card is the Disney Visa, which I am getting ready to close because the reward is not that great. Our cars are paid for. We just bought an 02 suburban and paid cash, what a great feeling. Our only debt is our mortgage and it is scheduled to be paid in full in 12 more months. We are going to build a new house next year so the money we get from selling this place will pay for our next house, plus the new house will be more than 4500 square feet and with 6 kids, that still may not be enough! :rotfl2: Dave Ramsey is wonderful!

C.Ann
08-20-2005, 01:09 PM
I am a huge fan of Dave Ramsey. We pay cash for everything. Our only credit card is the Disney Visa, which I am getting ready to close because the reward is not that great. Our cars are paid for. We just bought an 02 suburban and paid cash, what a great feeling. Our only debt is our mortgage and it is scheduled to be paid in full in 12 more months. We are going to build a new house next year so the money we get from selling this place will pay for our next house, plus the new house will be more than 4500 square feet and with 6 kids, that still may not be enough! :rotfl2: Dave Ramsey is wonderful!
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It's very interesting to see all the financial "myths" that most people live with debunked in simple to understand every day language.. Although I've pretty much lived by my Dad's motto my entire life, there were still a few areas where I made the "common" mistakes and paid dearly for it.. Knowing now that there are much better ways of handling certain issues is extremely helpful.. I originally purchased this book for someone else, but I can't have a book in my possession without reading it first myself so this will be a win-win situation.. ;)

Congrats on your accomplishments!! You should be SOOO proud of yourself.. :flower:

dvcgirl
08-20-2005, 01:13 PM
Yes, this is a good book....I like Dave Ramsey. And we agree with paying cash for everything. Well, actually we use credit cards for everything for the free miles and pay them off each month.

The other interesting factor with buying new cars is that a new car loses 60% of it's value in the first four years of its life. Isn't that incredible? It's the largest purchase Americans make besides their home and it starts to lose money the second you pull out of the dealership lot. He also advocates cutting out the middle man when buying a used car...the dreaded used car dealer....and buy from an individual who isn't likely to stick you with a huge mark-up.

And speaking of debt, I heard a statistic on the radio (Clark Howard show) the other day about car loans. The average length of a car loan in this country right now is 63 months. That means that there are more and more people are taking out 72 month and 84 month loans. Like Howard says, "people, if you need to pay 72 or 84 months for a car....you can't afford it!!" Also, 1/3 of people who are trading in cars for a new one are "upside down" in their loans, meaning that they owe more on the car than the car is worth. And, also, he said that leasing is back up to 20% in this country.

Some Federal Reserve study numbers I read recently. For the fiscal year 2004, the average family in the United States carried $8,000 in credit card debt and a total of $18,564 in overall debt (not including mortgage). Also, 43% of Americans spend more than they make. $1.22 for every $1.00 earned....that's the average. And the scary thing is that Fed predicted a flat spending year in 05' due to the credit situation, and yet it went *up*...why? The real estate boom and the "my house is an ATM machine" factor.

The moral of the story, being debt-free is not only a good thing, it's becoming more and more of a rare thing.

C.Ann
08-20-2005, 01:34 PM
The other interesting factor with buying new cars is that a new car loses 60% of it's value in the first four years of its life. Isn't that incredible? It's the largest purchase Americans make besides their home and it starts to lose money the second you pull out of the dealership lot. He also advocates cutting out the middle man when buying a used car...the dreaded used car dealer....and buy from an individual who isn't likely to stick you with a huge mark-up.

And speaking of debt, I heard a statistic on the radio (Clark Howard show) the other day about car loans. The average length of a car loan in this country right now is 63 months. That means that there are more and more people are taking out 72 month and 84 month loans. Like Howard says, "people, if you need to pay 72 or 84 months for a car....you can't afford it!!" Also, 1/3 of people who are trading in cars for a new one are "upside down" in their loans, meaning that they owe more on the car than the car is worth. And, also, he said that leasing is back up to 20% in this country.
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I have never purchased a brand new vehicle and probably never will.. I have always purchased from a very reliable dealer that I've done business with for many, many years and have always paid cash.. When you figure in what I have paid for any given vehicle, repairs and the length of time I've run these vehicles, I have ALWAYS come out WAAAAAY ahead of anyone who has purchased a brand new vehicle..

I found this statement interesting:

"Most people carry a car note for their entire lives, paying about $378 a month. That same amount invested from age 25 to retirement would, on average, amount to more than 4 million dollars by age 65." :earseek: Kind of sheds a whole new light on "car payments" - doesn't it? And most of the people I know are paying MORE than $378 a month! :faint:

Nik's Mom
08-20-2005, 03:40 PM
I'd love to be totally debt free! When I look at our mortgage, it seems like an impossible task to pay that off. How do you all do it? We are working on paying off our credit card and car payment this year, student loans next year. Then we'll tackle that mortgage. Maybe I'll have to check out the book. I have a cousin who has 2 houses paid off, and just bought a mobile home with cash! She's a stay-at-home Mom, and her dh makes a decent wage, but they are not rich. So there must be a way.
About car loans, it's so true. We bought our first new car when we were 32 years old. DH gets employee discount, so we got a good deal. I was just looking at the car adds today (just looking), and was shocked at all of the 84 month loan offers! :earseek:

Free4Life11
08-20-2005, 03:55 PM
I'd like to check out that book. I have to be honest and say that I'm skeptical! If it weren't for loans, I couldn't even afford to pay my monthly rent while in school! I just don't make enough from both of my jobs to cover that, plus food, personal expenses, and credit card payments. Even if I were able to put 100% of every paycheck towards my rent it wouldn't be enough....so I do have to say I am VERY skeptical as to how this all works out. I suppose I could move to a cheaper apartment, but since I don't have a car, living on campus is the best option.

C.Ann
08-20-2005, 03:56 PM
I'd love to be totally debt free! When I look at our mortgage, it seems like an impossible task to pay that off. How do you all do it? We are working on paying off our credit card and car payment this year, student loans next year. Then we'll tackle that mortgage. Maybe I'll have to check out the book. I have a cousin who has 2 houses paid off, and just bought a mobile home with cash! She's a stay-at-home Mom, and her dh makes a decent wage, but they are not rich. So there must be a way.
About car loans, it's so true. We bought our first new car when we were 32 years old. DH gets employee discount, so we got a good deal. I was just looking at the car adds today (just looking), and was shocked at all of the 84 month loan offers! :earseek:
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Perhaps you can borrow the book from your library? It's definitely worth the read and will point you in the direction of getting those debts paid off MUCH faster, have plenty of $$ aside in a STRICTLY emergency fund, how to save for college and retirement - AND how to pay CASH for everything from now on..

You can also check out the web site daveramsey.com for additional info, forums, etc..

Just remember - banks (and any other business that will loan you money - or extend credit to you) are NOT doing it to "help you out" or make your life easier.. They are doing it to make a profit - off of YOU and YOUR MONEY!

Won't hurt a thing to give it a look-see, right? :flower:

C.Ann
08-20-2005, 04:04 PM
I'd like to check out that book. I have to be honest and say that I'm skeptical! If it weren't for loans, I couldn't even afford to pay my monthly rent while in school! I just don't make enough from both of my jobs to cover that, plus food, personal expenses, and credit card payments. Even if I were able to put 100% of every paycheck towards my rent it wouldn't be enough....so I do have to say I am VERY skeptical as to how this all works out. I suppose I could move to a cheaper apartment, but since I don't have a car, living on campus is the best option.
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I'm a bit of a skeptic too.. :) Even though I have always lived my life on a strictly cash basis, the remainder of my money was never used to it's full advantage and I'm paying DEARLY for that now..

This is NOT a "get rich quick" scheme and it is NOT "easy".. It takes determination and sacrifice, but like anything else in life, if you truly want to live your life debt free and have a cushion for emergencies, $$ for retirement, etc. - this plan can work for anyone..

I can't wait to share this book with the original people I purchased it for.. They have always insisted that you can NOT live in this day and age without credit cards, two incomes and debt and it simply isn't true.. I already knew that - from watching my Dad - but I just couldn't figure out how to put it into words.. Dave does it extremely well - in very easy to read language..

Take a look if you can.. Hopefully you can make it work for you.. :flower:

my3kids
08-20-2005, 04:28 PM
I'd like to check out that book. I have to be honest and say that I'm skeptical! If it weren't for loans, I couldn't even afford to pay my monthly rent while in school! I just don't make enough from both of my jobs to cover that, plus food, personal expenses, and credit card payments. Even if I were able to put 100% of every paycheck towards my rent it wouldn't be enough....so I do have to say I am VERY skeptical as to how this all works out. I suppose I could move to a cheaper apartment, but since I don't have a car, living on campus is the best option.

Dave Ramsey's philosophy is not to pay more for school than you can pay cash for....live at home, work and pay for community college, never consider a private college. I don't agree with that so much, but he seems to say it on most every show, I think.

But, he would go on to say if you are making credit card payments, that money would be freed up for other things once you didn't have the debt. He advocates not living outside your cash means...so yes, he would say cheaper apartment, delivering pizzas(he always is telling someone to do that.) and working a zillion jobs and not use credit for anything.

mrsgus06
08-20-2005, 04:57 PM
[QUOTE=my3kids]Dave Ramsey's philosophy is not to pay more for school than you can pay cash for....live at home, work and pay for community college, never consider a private college. I don't agree with that so much, but he seems to say it on most every show, I think.

I have a 19 year old son that goes to the community college in town. He lives at home with us. He works full time to earn his spending money and car insurance/gas money. We pay for his classes on a cash basis. Because he is attending a school in his state, he is eligible for lottery money. We would rather him do this than to go to a private college and be in student debt forever. I could not say that we could have paid for his education if he considered Clemson for all 4 years. However, he is getting the basics now and transferring them to the College of Charleston later. He knows there are 5 others behind him that need their degree also. I am happy to report that we have 3 of the youngest childrens college (of their choice) completely paid for. I wish I had figured out the Dave Ramsey way about 19 years ago and all 6 would have had their education paid for long before they went. It is all a matter of how bad a person wants it. I like having my emergency fund set to the side. I like being able to pay bills at the first of the month and not living paycheck to paycheck. College is important to me and I want the best for my kids, as all parents do, but Dave came into my life a little too late to help the oldest one. :rolleyes:

I have a friend that has refinanced her house 3 times in the last seven years. The house was a gift to her and her hubby, free and clear. Now they have a mortgage of over $200,000 owed on it and not one thing to show for refinancing. I have tried to get them on the Dave Ramsey plan, but he is not even going to consider it. They don't pay the bills together so neither one knows what the other is doing. They want to get out of debt, but are not willing to part with their material things. Like I said, it really is how bad a person wants to be debt free. :confused3

Muushka
08-20-2005, 04:58 PM
I agree with 99.9999% of everything mentioned. The one itty-bitty teeny-tiny exception is about the cars. We have bought brand new cars- one in 2003 and one just about 3 months ago. The one we bought in 2003 had a higher book value than what I paid for it about 16 months later. And the brand new one (2005) cost about the same price to buy one that was 1 year old. I think the reasoning is sound-to buy a car 2 or years old, but there are exceptions. You really have to do your homework. And you really have to deal at the dealers! Carry on..... :wave:

PS we did not get car loans for either of the cars :banana: .

C.Ann
08-20-2005, 05:06 PM
I agree with 99.9999% of everything mentioned. The one itty-bitty teeny-tiny exception is about the cars. We have bought brand new cars- one in 2003 and one just about 3 months ago. The one we bought in 2003 had a higher book value than what I paid for it about 16 months later. And the brand new one (2005) cost about the same price to buy one that was 1 year old. I think the reasoning is sound-to buy a car 2 or years old, but there are exceptions. You really have to do your homework. And you really have to deal at the dealers! Carry on..... :wave:

PS we did not get car loans for either of the cars :banana: .
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That's great that you didn't take on any car payments.. :) However, the depreciation will still occur over the course of time - beginning the second you drive it off the lot.. "Book value" is rarely what you can sell it for - or expect to get if you traded it in at a later date.. Even your car insurance company won't pay you "book value" if it's totalled - unless you fight like heck and get lucky.. I think it's awesome that you paid cash though!! :flower:

Muushka
08-20-2005, 05:13 PM
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That's great that you didn't take on any car payments.. :) However, the depreciation will still occur over the course of time - beginning the second you drive it off the lot.. "Book value" is rarely what you can sell it for - or expect to get if you traded it in at a later date.. Even your car insurance company won't pay you "book value" if it's totalled - unless you fight like heck and get lucky.. I think it's awesome that you paid cash though!! :flower:

I agree that the depreciation begins the second you drive it off the lot. Book value is what I can expect to pay for a car. If I can buy a brand new car at the same price as one that is a year or two old, why would I buy the used one?

C.Ann
08-20-2005, 05:14 PM
But, he would go on to say if you are making credit card payments, that money would be freed up for other things once you didn't have the debt. He advocates not living outside your cash means...so yes, he would say cheaper apartment, delivering pizzas(he always is telling someone to do that.) and working a zillion jobs and not use credit for anything.
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Well my Dad never "delivered pizzas", never worked a 2nd job (actually at one point he was out of work for 8 years when he broke his back), but still managed to build and/or own 5 homes, a summer place, numerous cars and trucks, several campers/travel trailers, give two of his children down payments for their homes as a "gift", travel whenever they wanted to travel, pay for two weddings, adopt another child after the rest of us were grown, put that child through a private military school and college, and still managed to leave my mother extremely well off when he passed away.. He did it all with CASH and never purchased ANYTHING with credit.. Obviously he did something "right" and must have had Dave Ramsey's insight long before Dave ever had it.. LOL :flower:

C.Ann
08-20-2005, 06:07 PM
I agree that the depreciation begins the second you drive it off the lot. Book value is what I can expect to pay for a car. If I can buy a brand new car at the same price as one that is a year or two old, why would I buy the used one?
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I don't think I've ever heard of anyone being able to purchase a brand new car for the same price as a two-year old car, but I'd love to hear about it if you would like to share.. :flower: Also, what is the difference in your insurance rates? With my own car purchases I have always noticed that the newer the car, the higher the rates.. Has that been the case for you?

wdwpluto
08-20-2005, 06:38 PM
The one thing I disagree with (and this is a personal choice of course, not bashing anyone else's choices) is buying a used car.

I have a 2000 car that I bought brand new in 2000. My co-worker has a 2000 car that she bought in 2003. She has spent WAY more than I have in maintenance because apparently the car she bought was poorly maintained. Her car is always in the shop for some problem while I only take my car for routine stuff (like oil changes and my 60k mile service).

Maybe it's a fluke, but I don't like the idea of buying someone else's headache. I know that I will have my car much, much longer than my co-worker will, simply because she's fed up with spending a fortune in maintenance.

Just my 2 cents.

my3kids
08-20-2005, 06:41 PM
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Obviously he did something "right" and must have had Dave Ramsey's insight long before Dave ever had it.. LOL :flower:

Dave always does say advice your grandmother would give you! Probably most in that generation felt the same way. :)

my3kids
08-20-2005, 06:45 PM
mrsgus: Sounds like a good plan to me. My problem with Dave's philosophy isn't with paying for school; it is his stance that no one should ever consider a private college. I know for a fact that many, and probably most, private colleges do a much better job at meeting student's financial aid needs. He carte blanche tells people to not even look at private colleges. For a lot of folks, the private schools could end up being a lot more affordable than public ones. That is what I disagree with.

mrsgus06
08-20-2005, 06:50 PM
My3kids, there was no offense taken with your post. I was just whinning because I did not prepare earlier for my oldest :rotfl: . I would love to have been able to pay for Clemson, but did not learn lifes' lesson soon enough. I do have the others under control and will be able to offer them different choices but if gas prices keep increasing, they will have to stay in the dorm of a private college because it will be much cheaper. :rotfl2:

my3kids
08-20-2005, 06:52 PM
:rotfl: :rotfl: Yep, before long a private college education will be cheaper than filling up your car's tank!

Nik's Mom
08-20-2005, 07:24 PM
C.Ann, in my area, you can sometimes get a new car for less than a 2 year old car. But it may not have the same features. For example, the new car might have cloth seats, entry level radio, etc and the 2 year old car might be high end model with leather seats and all bells and whistles. Just an example. I'm not a high end type of girl when it comes to cars. ;)
And when we bought our new car, the insurance did go up, but not that much. But we both have the good driver discount, homeowners discount, etc. I'm sure the discounts made a difference in price.
I guess I won't agree with Dave Ramsey when it comes to college. I had to take out student loans to go to college, and I do not regret it for a second.

Muushka
08-20-2005, 08:00 PM
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I don't think I've ever heard of anyone being able to purchase a brand new car for the same price as a two-year old car, but I'd love to hear about it if you would like to share.. :flower: Also, what is the difference in your insurance rates? With my own car purchases I have always noticed that the newer the car, the higher the rates.. Has that been the case for you?

My only reason for posting that information is so that people will evaluate each situation. I am not a fan of blanket statements. Like "Sams Club" has the cheapest of everything, when they do not.

This is the car we just bought.Mazda 3 (http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ur?kbb.NC;801133;NC183&27513;+r&40;Mazda;2004%203&2;MA; S3&&&) We paid $16500 for it and it lists for $17615 with 23000 miles on it, apples to apples except 1 year older and the mileage.
I am sure this car could be talked down in price, but it would have to be a large chunk of change to make me buy a car 1 year older with 2 year's worth of miles on it.

My other car is now 3 years old and not good for comparison, but we paid $10,600 for a brand new Neon (not a fan of that car!) and it listed for about $14,000. Like I said, 18 months later the car was still worth more than the $10, 600 that we paid. And I don't know about your insurance company, but ours does not go down by much (maybe a few dollars) each year. And when we put the new Mazda on (worth $17,500) and took off the 1999 Intrepid, worth $5000, our insurance went up only $6.

So, in conclusion, I would stick to my original statement!

RichNKatHolly
08-20-2005, 08:32 PM
I'm just curious as to how Dave Ramsey tells you HOW to pay cash for everything. Right now, DH works 1 full time job and a part time job. I work a few part time gigs. We have just about enough every month for rent, food, etc. Very rarely are their any savings (now, if DH would stop smoking I figure we would have an extra $200+ a month). We use our tax refunds for vacations and I had a little "found" money this year to pay for our next trip.

If you literally just make enough to get by, HOW can you pay cash for a house? Today's cost of living (especially where we are) makes it impossible in my opinion.

We did luck out and purchased a new car with cash 2 years ago. We purchased brand new because we need this car to last at least 15 years. I researched, found the best value/reliability rated car and purchased it. It is very nice to not have a car payment for the past few years! And our insurance went DOWN because when you have a loan you have to carry higher limits.

I may have to check this book out at the library.

paladin
08-20-2005, 08:40 PM
With my own car purchases I have always noticed that the newer the car, the higher the rates.. Has that been the case for you?

Actually my insurance rates when down when we recently bought a new car - same company as our previous car, but a different model.

C.Ann
08-20-2005, 08:51 PM
This is the car we just bought.Mazda 3 (http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ur?kbb.NC;801133;NC183&27513;+r&40;Mazda;2004%203&2;MA; S3&&&) We paid $16500 for it and it lists for $17615 with 23000 miles on it, apples to apples except 1 year older and the mileage.
I am sure this car could be talked down in price, but it would have to be a large chunk of change to make me buy a car 1 year older with 2 year's worth of miles on it.
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"Lists" where? A savvy car shopper would not pay that much for a used car with 23,000 miles on it if they could purchase the brand new one for less, so ultimately the "used" car would still end up "having" to be sold for less than the "new" one.. :confused3 (Not counting the old "There's a sucker born every minute" phrase.. LOL .. The problem would be hoping it was the "sucker" who read the used car ad.. :teeth: )

C.Ann
08-20-2005, 08:53 PM
Actually my insurance rates when down when we recently bought a new car - same company as our previous car, but a different model.
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I wonder if it depends on what state or county people reside in? I'm driving an older car now (than the one that was totaled in Feb.) and my car insurance dropped to a quarter of what it was.. :confused3

C.Ann
08-20-2005, 08:57 PM
I'm just curious as to how Dave Ramsey tells you HOW to pay cash for everything. Right now, DH works 1 full time job and a part time job. I work a few part time gigs. We have just about enough every month for rent, food, etc. Very rarely are their any savings (now, if DH would stop smoking I figure we would have an extra $200+ a month). We use our tax refunds for vacations and I had a little "found" money this year to pay for our next trip.

If you literally just make enough to get by, HOW can you pay cash for a house? Today's cost of living (especially where we are) makes it impossible in my opinion.

We did luck out and purchased a new car with cash 2 years ago. We purchased brand new because we need this car to last at least 15 years. I researched, found the best value/reliability rated car and purchased it. It is very nice to not have a car payment for the past few years! And our insurance went DOWN because when you have a loan you have to carry higher limits.

I may have to check this book out at the library.
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See if you can get the book at the library and read it for yourself.. It's a little too lengthy to go into here.. What would it hurt?

Every hear the phrase "The proof is in the pudding"? It worked for my Dad, and it worked for us kids (with the exception of my 40-ish younger brother who thought he knew better and is in debt up to his eyeballs and will never see the light of day..).. :flower:

mrsbornkuntry
08-20-2005, 09:42 PM
I read the book and it makes alot of sense to me. I always thought we were doing okay, we aren't in THAT much debt, but after I read the book I thought it would be nice not to have any debt at all so I wrote down all of it and WOW. It was so much more than I thought to see it all added up like that. I had tried reading Suze Orman's books in the past, but I get confused easily when I start reading about investing and hers seem to talk alot about that (well, I only read one and it did), but I understood TMM perfectly and I love the way he breaks everything down into steps and then explains the WHY of each step.

TNKBELL
08-20-2005, 10:53 PM
I read the book and it makes alot of sense to me. I always thought we were doing okay, we aren't in THAT much debt, but after I read the book I thought it would be nice not to have any debt at all so I wrote down all of it and WOW. It was so much more than I thought to see it all added up like that. I had tried reading Suze Orman's books in the past, but I get confused easily when I start reading about investing and hers seem to talk alot about that (well, I only read one and it did), but I understood TMM perfectly and I love the way he breaks everything down into steps and then explains the WHY of each step.
I agree with you! I'm reading Suze Orman's book now and I think it has very good information, but I'm just not there yet, I found Dave's so much more simple and inspirational. I tell people about Dave and most people just don't want to change thier "lifestyle" and I admit I'm struggling with a little of that myself! Self control is so difficult for our generation....must have it now, no matter what!! I'm trying to change, it's sooo hard, I want my children to be better than I have been.I've got to lead by example!! So grateful for Dave!! :cheer2:

peacefulgirl
08-20-2005, 11:04 PM
Like Dave says "I am wierd, I don't want to be Normal, because normal is BROKE!"

Anyone who knows me from my other post knows my financial mess. I can't say enough about what DR teaches. You may not agree 100%, but 99.9 you have to know he is on to something.

You guys should read "Financial Peace Revisted" from DR, TMMO is more about the plan, but FP is a good place to start, where he explain the life styles and mistakes most of us make.

DR's plan is not for the weak... he pushes for intense !!!

Go for it!!!!!!!!

Muushka
08-21-2005, 03:22 AM
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"Lists" where? A savvy car shopper would not pay that much for a used car with 23,000 miles on it if they could purchase the brand new one for less, so ultimately the "used" car would still end up "having" to be sold for less than the "new" one.. :confused3 (Not counting the old "There's a sucker born every minute" phrase.. LOL .. The problem would be hoping it was the "sucker" who read the used car ad.. :teeth: )


C.Ann, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. LOL

my3kids
08-21-2005, 06:18 AM
I'm just curious as to how Dave Ramsey tells you HOW to pay cash for everything.
If you literally just make enough to get by, HOW can you pay cash for a house?


Dave Ramsey actually says, usually, "debt free except for the house." After someone pays off everything else, including cars, then he helps them tackle the mortgage. When all the money that was going to consumer debt is being saved instead of going to the credit card or car loans, it can be put towards the mortgage and then it would paid off more quickly. In terms of mortgages, he advocates for 15 year fixed rate loans with the hope of a family paying it off sooner.

my3kids
08-21-2005, 06:23 AM
In terms of cars, I bought a new one a few years ago....a popular model that was selling for list price or even more virtually everywhere. I did an internet query and set an email to dealers all over my region of the country. I got an offer for about $3K less than anywhere else. Although I did I have to make a weekend trip to get the thing, the savings were worth it. A year later I had a car I still could have sold for more than I paid for it new. Dave's blanket rules aren't always right, in my opinion. All circumstances are different. Kind of like my problem with him bashing private colleges......often they are more finance friendly than public universities.

RichNKatHolly
08-21-2005, 07:16 AM
Dave Ramsey actually says, usually, "debt free except for the house." After someone pays off everything else, including cars, then he helps them tackle the mortgage. When all the money that was going to consumer debt is being saved instead of going to the credit card or car loans, it can be put towards the mortgage and then it would paid off more quickly. In terms of mortgages, he advocates for 15 year fixed rate loans with the hope of a family paying it off sooner.

Thanks! We don't have any debt (no credit cards or mortgage because we rent) but we are having trouble saving for a down payment on these ridiculous priced houses here and our work income does not seem to cover more than the basics. I guess we never should have gotten caught in the rental black hole, but what can you do.

I will check out the book tomorrow.

RichNKatHolly
08-21-2005, 07:33 AM
I just ordered the book from Amazon. It had more great reviews there so I figure buying is better since it will be in my home anytime I need some encouragement.

Just wondering if anyone has his book about teaching kids about money? I may look in the library for that one. DS thinks it grows on trees. ;)

robsmom
08-21-2005, 08:06 AM
I have not read this book (yet) but in general i do agree that Dave Ramsey gives good common sense financial advice. The main point that i can not agree with Dave on is his college stance on no private college. I think we need to think of our personal finances as a business. We are trying each year to have the best net profit (income - expenses) that we can and put it into retained earnings (savings). Dave is very focused on lowering expenses but doesn't spend as much time working on how people can increase their income. let's face it delivering pizza isn't a 6 figure job. If you look at major companies and high paying firms (law firms, medicine, accounting firms, consulting, fortune 100), most of them have recruiting lists of colleges they work with. Private colleges are usually at the top of those lists. Depending on what your child wants to do, Private education can pay for itself ten fold even with student loans. it is not the answer for everyone but for some kids it is.

jay-nee
08-21-2005, 08:13 AM
I have been reading many money management books (Start Late, Finish Rich, Money Lessons for a Lifetime, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, etc). I have not read DR yet, but will do so based upon the recommendations here.

It sounds like his information is a very common sense approach and that makes sense.

Several years ago, I cut my hours in half (to 20 hrs per week) and we did not see any major differences overall. But, I did make some "unnoticable" changes. Like: decreasing our cable TV to basic-plus, paid off braces for the kids early, consolidated and paid off credit card debt, started making coffee at home, shopped at Wal-Mart for most of our groceries, shopped at BJ's for paper goods, bring my breakfast and lunch to work each day, made a 5 week menu plan (and grocery list to match), stopped going to the movies and rented DVDs instead, etc. It's worked very well.

I wish I had these books then, though, 3 years and we could have been so much further along right now. But, better to start somewhere than no where. I see folks at work buying coffee and breakfast and lunch and complain about having no money and I want to say...people look where you're money is going! That is probably $10+ a day! $70 a week! Yikes...

Plus, we always do our errands on the way to some place, very few special trips anywhere. It helps to keep a list of what you need to see, stop for, do, etc. We keep our list by the phone and just jot down things as we think of them. That way, when we head somewhere, we can just add in those stops too. It helps on gas alot!

This information has been interesting to read through. It's obvious that folks have differing opinions about how to handle money matters, but that's ok. As long as the end result is the same - successful money management for that family. Each tip may not work for each family, but the discussions will hopefully help alot of families. I wish more folks would talk about money and how they manage it, I think we would all learn more.

OP - thanks for starting this thread! I appreciate the sharing of information, it looks like alot of us do. :sunny: I can't wait to get the book (through the library, of course!).

Happy Sunday! :sunny:

C.Ann
08-21-2005, 10:16 AM
Thanks! We don't have any debt (no credit cards or mortgage because we rent) but we are having trouble saving for a down payment on these ridiculous priced houses here and our work income does not seem to cover more than the basics. I guess we never should have gotten caught in the rental black hole, but what can you do.

I will check out the book tomorrow.
-------------------------

I just noticed where you live (under yur user name) and yes, I imagne the housing costs are VERY high there.. There's a couple next-door right now who are visiting from Long Island and last night at the campfire we were talking about the cost of homes.. I nearly fainted when her DH was telling me the "average" cost of a home on LI.. :earseek:

I think this book might help you though - especially if you have no current debt.. Won't be easy, by any means - but I'll bet you can get that house that you want eventually if you're willing to follow the plan..

Best of luck! :flower:

C.Ann
08-21-2005, 10:29 AM
I have not read this book (yet) but in general i do agree that Dave Ramsey gives good common sense financial advice. The main point that i can not agree with Dave on is his college stance on no private college. I think we need to think of our personal finances as a business. We are trying each year to have the best net profit (income - expenses) that we can and put it into retained earnings (savings). Dave is very focused on lowering expenses but doesn't spend as much time working on how people can increase their income. let's face it delivering pizza isn't a 6 figure job. If you look at major companies and high paying firms (law firms, medicine, accounting firms, consulting, fortune 100), most of them have recruiting lists of colleges they work with. Private colleges are usually at the top of those lists. Depending on what your child wants to do, Private education can pay for itself ten fold even with student loans. it is not the answer for everyone but for some kids it is.
-----------------------

Obviously I can't speak for Dave, but I would think that if you are totally debt free when the time comes to send your child to college he wouldn't have any problems with you sending that child to a private college.. That's kind of the whole point of the plan - to reach a point in life where you can do whatever you'd like with your money.. However, if you're buried in debt and struggling to make ends meet - no emergency savings - no retirement - then those issues have to be addressed first..

I also think he doesn't talk much about increasing your income because there are so many areas where the money you're already bringing in is being wasted or mismanaged and if you change those areas an increase isn't needed.. I don't think he's "against" it - he's just able to see through the fog and point out that much of what you need is already there.. :flower:

sames1
08-21-2005, 10:55 AM
I love the idea of paying cash. Hard to do for a lot of people however including me. I need to get that book. :flower:

Debbie Jean
08-21-2005, 11:47 AM
I have not read this book (yet) but in general i do agree that Dave Ramsey gives good common sense financial advice. The main point that i can not agree with Dave on is his college stance on no private college. I think we need to think of our personal finances as a business. We are trying each year to have the best net profit (income - expenses) that we can and put it into retained earnings (savings). Dave is very focused on lowering expenses but doesn't spend as much time working on how people can increase their income. let's face it delivering pizza isn't a 6 figure job. If you look at major companies and high paying firms (law firms, medicine, accounting firms, consulting, fortune 100), most of them have recruiting lists of colleges they work with. Private colleges are usually at the top of those lists. Depending on what your child wants to do, Private education can pay for itself ten fold even with student loans. it is not the answer for everyone but for some kids it is.

As a college professor, I have to say I absolutely agree with you here. Education is an investment which, when planned wisely, will provide long term job satisfaction and pay for itself many times over. If you read Suzie Ormand... and I am a great fan... she totally supports the idea that educational debt is the one exception to her "no-debt" rule. Why? Because from her perspective it isn't a debt... it's an investment. The return on it is accrued over a lifetime of higher wages and benefits.

Private colleges have a great deal to offer.... including far better aid and financial packages then public institutions. I speak from experience. I attended both public and private as a student and now teach at a state university. My daughter, btw, is attending a community college. Are these great buys financially... absolutely! But private colleges which require aid and loans are still terrific options also. It depends entirely on what you want to study and what your educational objective is. Would I take out loans to send my daughter to a private college? You bet I would.... and so would she, if it met her goals. Right now, community college is the right choice for her. But having done the homework I can tell you private colleges offer far more grants and scholarships than public institutions and educational loans are available to both parents and students for affordable interest rates with very favorable repayment plans.

I can't tell you the number of students I have who think nothing of a huge car loan, but won't even consider the idea of taking out a student loan so they can complete their education and gain real employment with a decent salary and benefits. Instead, they deliver pizza and work at the mall so they can drive around in their "hot wheels". :confused3

sames1
08-21-2005, 11:52 AM
There should be another exception to borrowing: Trips to Disney World...!!!

just kidding


:earsboy: pirate:

dvcgirl
08-21-2005, 12:26 PM
I'm just curious as to how Dave Ramsey tells you HOW to pay cash for everything. Right now, DH works 1 full time job and a part time job. I work a few part time gigs. We have just about enough every month for rent, food, etc. Very rarely are their any savings (now, if DH would stop smoking I figure we would have an extra $200+ a month). We use our tax refunds for vacations and I had a little "found" money this year to pay for our next trip.

If you literally just make enough to get by, HOW can you pay cash for a house? Today's cost of living (especially where we are) makes it impossible in my opinion.

We did luck out and purchased a new car with cash 2 years ago. We purchased brand new because we need this car to last at least 15 years. I researched, found the best value/reliability rated car and purchased it. It is very nice to not have a car payment for the past few years! And our insurance went DOWN because when you have a loan you have to carry higher limits.

I may have to check this book out at the library.

Well finances, and budgets are kind of like dieting. There's no magic bullet. With dieting it's at less, move more and you'll lose weight. With finances it's make more and spend less. If it's impossible for you to make more, then it's almost always possible to spend less...and then start saving. Look at every single bill/expense in your lives and if it's not an absolute necessity...cut it out. You'll be amazed if you start trimming back cell phone minutes and cable packages how much you can save in a year.

There's a very good article in the Orlando Sentinel today regarding Congress and the Zero Savings factor in our nation right now. The folks down in Washington are getting a little nervous quite frankly. We have a Social Security problem because the funds start to run dangerously low in 2041. We have fewer and fewer companies offering pensions to its workers (and even if they do, it seems you're at risk of it not being there when you need it). And we have a nation full of spenders. One financial planner in here speaks about high income earners and how many of them aren't saving because they have a lifestyle which they've become accustomed to living. Expensive cars, vacations....on and on. He then says, ""But many don't want to hear it. It's denial, like when finding you have a serious disease. Not saving enough is a disease."

Here's the full article if anyone is interested...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-asecsavings21082105aug21,0,411387.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

RichNKatHolly
08-21-2005, 12:29 PM
-------------------------

I just noticed where you live (under yur user name) and yes, I imagne the housing costs are VERY high there.. There's a couple next-door right now who are visiting from Long Island and last night at the campfire we were talking about the cost of homes.. I nearly fainted when her DH was telling me the "average" cost of a home on LI.. :earseek:

I think this book might help you though - especially if you have no current debt.. Won't be easy, by any means - but I'll bet you can get that house that you want eventually if you're willing to follow the plan..

Best of luck! :flower:

Yup. Average 3 bedroom home (mind you, it will be a semiattached townhouse most likely) is about $420,000. If you want an unattached one-family house you are up over 1/2 million. BUT, first you have to find one!!!

We'll get there eventually. I was just wondering HOW some people get the cash to pay for homes, cars, etc. without working all day everyday. I guess in some areas it is easier to cut back on living expenses than in others. I'll have to go through the bills and see what we can live without. :confused3

RichNKatHolly
08-21-2005, 12:33 PM
Here's the full article if anyone is interested...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-asecsavings21082105aug21,0,411387.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

Thanks for the article. I'm going to check it out. I'm sure there are some things we could cut out. Of course, I could always cut out the vacations and that would be one place to start, but I think I'd rather cut DOWN the vacation spending instead :teeth:

Unfortunately, where we live it just seems that working, middle class people are really on their own. DH has what is considered a super job, but you should see his check without overtime - YIKES! Very sad that people should have to work 3 and 4 jobs per family to make ends meet. It's either that or we both work FT and put the kid's in daycare. Not an option I would consider (maybe if we didn't have food, but...).

peacefulgirl
08-21-2005, 12:33 PM
I just found out about a free firewall that can be used with your computer's firewall. Extra protection is a good thing. I got this from smartmoney newletter and is legit. Just thought I'de share.

http://www.zonelabs.com/m/security3.html

etwinchester
08-21-2005, 12:53 PM
Just wondering if anyone has his book about teaching kids about money? I may look in the library for that one. DS thinks it grows on trees. ;)

I have the kids Jr. one that comes with a commission chart.

It works great for DD (age 4 then). I was having trouble with her not listening and starting to talk back. Guess preschool was already taking it's tole.

I listed some chores per day and some per week. Most she earns for each one is .10 and some that are weekly (small trash like bathroom) are .15. If she does ALL of them when scheduled, the most she can earn is 1/2 her age (which right now is 2.50).

If she talks back, doesn't listen, or is being mean, she'd loose .20 for each occurance, which is double a chore. I also use a green erasable marker for chores earned and red for fines.

IT WORKED LIKE A CHARM. She knew that if she done something bad/wrong, the red marker was coming out and cried. She didn't want to loose her money. We just took a trip to knoebels and she worked really hard to earn money to go. She loved it when she completed a chore and reminded me to mark her chart.

Every year on her birthday, we redo the chart with new or more chores, her rate increase, her fines and I re-read the book to her to try and get her to understand as she gets older. If I continue this practice, she will remember as an adult and be debt free. (fingers crossed)

I would highly recommend this...DD loves to do her chores to earn a commission. Now she hates to spend her money and saves most of it. Hope she stays this way. Hopefully this book was a good investment and she will continue to save when she is a lot older.

peacefulgirl
08-21-2005, 12:57 PM
I just ordered the book from Amazon. It had more great reviews there so I figure buying is better since it will be in my home anytime I need some encouragement.

Just wondering if anyone has his book about teaching kids about money? I may look in the library for that one. DS thinks it grows on trees. ;)

Right now he has a program on his kids new website. The books are awesome!!!
There is also a 1000.00 coloring contest for kids!!!!!!

http://kids.daveramsey.com/

It'll be one of the best things you can teach the kids.

He teaches kids get paid commision NOT allowance! WHo gets allowance in the real world? NOONE! Work = pay, no work= no pay! I love this and now my DD is asking for work!! YIPPEEYYY !! She will be money smart for life!

RichNKatHolly
08-21-2005, 12:59 PM
I have the kids Jr. one that comes with a commission chart.

It works great for DD (age 5). I was having trouble with her not listening and starting to talk back. Guess preschool was already taking it's tole.

I listed some chores per day and some per week. Most she earns for each one is .10 and some that are weekly (small trash like bathroom) are .15. If she does ALL of them when scheduled, the most she can earn is 1/2 her age (which right now is 2.50).

If she talks back, doesn't listen, or is being mean, she'd loose .20 for each occurance, which is double a chore. I also used a green erasable marker for chores earned and red for fines.

IT WORKED LIKE A CHARM. She knew that if she done something bad/wrong, the red marker was coming out and cried. She didn't want to loose her money. We just took a trip to knoebels and she worked really hard to earn money to go. She loved it when she completed a chore and reminded me to mark her chart.

Every year on her birthday, we redo the chart with new or more chores, her rate increase, her fines and I re-read the book to her to try and get her to understand as she gets older. If I continue this practice, she will remember as an adult and be debt free. (fingers crossed)

I would highly recommend this...DD loves to do her chores to earn a commission. Now she hates to spend her money and saves most of it. Hope she stays this way. Hopefully this book was a good investment and she will continue to save when she is a lot older.

Thanks! I think I'm going to get this one too. I really don't want DD or DS to repeat some of the painful financial mistakes that we have. While we don't have alot in savings right now, it is really great to not have any ccs, car loans, etc. And, I totally forgot that DH has 10% put into his 401K. Funny, how when it comes off the top of the check, you totally forget. Hey, we really do have some savings!!!

Glad this book worked for DD. You really do have to start them out right from an early age.

RichNKatHolly
08-21-2005, 01:00 PM
Right now he has a program on his kids new website. The books are awesome!!!
There is also a 1000.00 coloring contest for kids!!!!!!

http://kids.daveramsey.com/

It'll be one of the best things you can teach the kids.

He teaches kids get paid commision NOT allowance! WHo gets allowance in the real world? NOONE! Work = pay, no work= no pay! I love this and now my DD is asking for work!! YIPPEEYYY !! She will be money smart for life!

Thanks! That link is my next stop!!!

peacefulgirl
08-21-2005, 01:01 PM
I have been reading many money management books (Start Late, Finish Rich, Money Lessons for a Lifetime, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, etc). I have not read DR yet, but will do so based upon the recommendations here.

It sounds like his information is a very common sense approach and that makes sense.

Several years ago, I cut my hours in half (to 20 hrs per week) and we did not see any major differences overall. But, I did make some "unnoticable" changes. Like: decreasing our cable TV to basic-plus, paid off braces for the kids early, consolidated and paid off credit card debt, started making coffee at home, shopped at Wal-Mart for most of our groceries, shopped at BJ's for paper goods, bring my breakfast and lunch to work each day, made a 5 week menu plan (and grocery list to match), stopped going to the movies and rented DVDs instead, etc. It's worked very well.

I wish I had these books then, though, 3 years and we could have been so much further along right now. But, better to start somewhere than no where. I see folks at work buying coffee and breakfast and lunch and complain about having no money and I want to say...people look where you're money is going! That is probably $10+ a day! $70 a week! Yikes...

Plus, we always do our errands on the way to some place, very few special trips anywhere. It helps to keep a list of what you need to see, stop for, do, etc. We keep our list by the phone and just jot down things as we think of them. That way, when we head somewhere, we can just add in those stops too. It helps on gas alot!

This information has been interesting to read through. It's obvious that folks have differing opinions about how to handle money matters, but that's ok. As long as the end result is the same - successful money management for that family. Each tip may not work for each family, but the discussions will hopefully help alot of families. I wish more folks would talk about money and how they manage it, I think we would all learn more.

OP - thanks for starting this thread! I appreciate the sharing of information, it looks like alot of us do. :sunny: I can't wait to get the book (through the library, of course!).

Happy Sunday! :sunny:

There are different money books out there, I take them all in and do what works for me. Dave Bach is good, but he doesn't get you outta debt so much as teaches how to get rich. Can't get rich until debt is gone.

DR teaches how to get out of debt AND how to stop wasting your money by paying the banks your income! Big difference there.

You'll get alot out of it. But be sure to read Financial Peace by DR too!

etwinchester
08-21-2005, 01:08 PM
I don't want DD to make the same mistakes I did as well...

I have 4 CC's that I'm trying to pay off. 2 are closed and 2 are still open. Once I get them all paid off, the one will be for rewards and one for emergencies. I want to pay them in full each month. It's just so hard right now paying them off.

I haven't charged anything is almost a year and I've never been late since I was young (age 18) and my company filed bankrupsy, thus 3 of my paychecks bounced.

I hope to get and keep her on the right track at an early age. I do recommend reading the book every year on their birthday as you make adjustment to their work/fines. It will remind them why we are doing this and what they can learn.

RichNKatHolly
08-21-2005, 01:16 PM
I know it's very hard. I wish we could save some real cash and still have some left for fun and travel.

I see you sell Mary Kay. How does that work for you? I'm in the process of starting Pampered Chef, but am afraid of how to ask people to buy from me.

Good luck!!!

etwinchester
08-21-2005, 01:24 PM
It's pretty good. I only started in November for something for me to do and get the discount for myself. I held about 1 show a month. DH got laid off in April so it was nice that I could try to get more sales.

Now he started doing side work and doesn't get home till late. Hard for me to plan parties but I still get some people asking about MK when they see my bag when I'm out grocery shopping. I give them samples and a catalog and will schedule a class or one-on-one if they want.

One thing that is good is that it's a consumable product so once they run out, they call to place a reorder or do it online. Just having the reorders are great once you get people started on the product. I even have some customers who lost their previous consultant so that was nice that I could help them out.

Good luck with Pampered Chef. I use some of their things but trying to cut back on the spending...

RichNKatHolly
08-21-2005, 01:56 PM
Good luck with Pampered Chef. I use some of their things but trying to cut back on the spending...

Me too! I hope I don't end up spending more than I earn!!! I will remember to use my PC logo stuff while out and about - great tip.

drakethib
08-21-2005, 10:05 PM
Yes, this is a good book....I like Dave Ramsey. And we agree with paying cash for everything. Well, actually we use credit cards for everything for the free miles and pay them off each month.

The other interesting factor with buying new cars is that a new car loses 60% of it's value in the first four years of its life. Isn't that incredible? It's the largest purchase Americans make besides their home and it starts to lose money the second you pull out of the dealership lot. He also advocates cutting out the middle man when buying a used car...the dreaded used car dealer....and buy from an individual who isn't likely to stick you with a huge mark-up.

And speaking of debt, I heard a statistic on the radio (Clark Howard show) the other day about car loans. The average length of a car loan in this country right now is 63 months. That means that there are more and more people are taking out 72 month and 84 month loans. Like Howard says, "people, if you need to pay 72 or 84 months for a car....you can't afford it!!" Also, 1/3 of people who are trading in cars for a new one are "upside down" in their loans, meaning that they owe more on the car than the car is worth. And, also, he said that leasing is back up to 20% in this country.

Some Federal Reserve study numbers I read recently. For the fiscal year 2004, the average family in the United States carried $8,000 in credit card debt and a total of $18,564 in overall debt (not including mortgage). Also, 43% of Americans spend more than they make. $1.22 for every $1.00 earned....that's the average. And the scary thing is that Fed predicted a flat spending year in 05' due to the credit situation, and yet it went *up*...why? The real estate boom and the "my house is an ATM machine" factor.

The moral of the story, being debt-free is not only a good thing, it's becoming more and more of a rare thing.


I can't believe someone would finance a car for 84 months.

:confused3

ZerasPride
08-22-2005, 07:50 AM
Just wanted to chime in really quick when I found this thread. I just finished reading DR's TMM book and was it ever an eye opener for me and DH. We have lots of cc debt (consolidated about six months ago), 2 huge car notes and a son that is a senior in high school. We are also renters and looking to buy our own condo. I wish I would have found this book years ago! It won't be easy but I'm steeling up some "gazelle intensity" and know my family will think I am crazy but we are going to become debt free!

I was talking to my son the other day about some of the "changes" that are going to take place with our spending and when I said we are going to be a cash only spending family, he looked at me like I was nuts. I don't care. We are going to do this. There are so many testimonials in his book that prove it can be done. I have a sister that is expecting any day now and she is going to be a stay at home mom. When I asked her how they could possibly afford it, I was surprised that most of the things she and her DH did are mentioned in DR's book - they took a few years and became debt free, own both their cars and live in a modest home. They actually live a little below their means. I used to think they were nuts for how they lived but now I finally understand!

dvcgirl
08-22-2005, 08:25 AM
I can't believe someone would finance a car for 84 months.

:confused3

Neither can I. But for many people, it's all about the monthly payment. How about the increasing popularity of the 40 year mortgage? People don't look at how much they'll actually pay for the car over those 84 months or the house over 40...if they can just get that monthly payment down, they think that they can afford it. In actuality, the probably can't.

tinaluis
08-22-2005, 01:33 PM
I take issue with the buying a 2 year old car vs. new car theory that DR talks about. I realize that most of a car's value is lost in the first 4 years but, when we looked at Hondas recently, a 3 year old Honda with about 30,000 miles was only $800 less than a brand new one, so we went with new. Of course, we had to do our homework to get a rock bottom price, but I feel that, overall, we got the best deal by going with a new car.

RichNKatHolly
08-22-2005, 02:58 PM
I agree with TinaLuis on the new vs old car when looking at Hondas and Toyotas. Consumer reports will confirm that they have a much lower depreciation record and excellent reliability. We also opted for the new Honda 3 years ago (no loan) because we really need it to last for 15 + years. Also, this money we had gotten when my grandfather passed away, and he was convinced that a used car was someone else's problems. I wouldn't want him haunting me that I purchased a used car! He hated the idea of our previous car which we purchased 1 year old :)

I guess it depends on the circumstance. There are exceptions to every rule, of course!

Lisa loves Pooh
08-22-2005, 04:56 PM
Got the book---read it...and so ready to begin!

However--the only one problem I have, that no one has mentioned...is that he saves retirement for a later step--after you have your 3-6 months of expenses in savings.

Hubby's company matches 100% for the first 6%.....and yes Dave Ramsey says to not be tempted by this and instead throw the money to debt payoff and establishing savings. That just isn't going to sit well with hubby.

Was wondering anyone else's thoughts on this.

RichNKatHolly
08-22-2005, 05:08 PM
Got the book---read it...and so ready to begin!

However--the only one problem I have, that no one has mentioned...is that he saves retirement for a later step--after you have your 3-6 months of expenses in savings.

Hubby's company matches 100% for the first 6%.....and yes Dave Ramsey says to not be tempted by this and instead throw the money to debt payoff and establishing savings. That just isn't going to sit well with hubby.

Was wondering anyone else's thoughts on this.

Haven't received the book just yet, but my opinion is this. We don't have debt, we rent, have really no savings, but we do put 10% into DH's 401K automatically. I will NOT stop doing that for this plan. I will try to squeeze the savings out of what we make after that. I don't even consider the 10% because we never see it. If your DH's company matches, that's great, it is free money (gotta love that free money, I love upromise for that reason) - we don't have that benefit since my DH works for the city.

I would imagine that if you are not trying to get by just paycheck to paycheck, leave the contribution as is. I'm sure I will want to start Mr. Ramsey's plan, but I'm also sure I will make some modifications. No one thing works for everyone, I don't care how many books they've sold! :teeth:

C.Ann
08-22-2005, 05:20 PM
Got the book---read it...and so ready to begin!

However--the only one problem I have, that no one has mentioned...is that he saves retirement for a later step--after you have your 3-6 months of expenses in savings.

Hubby's company matches 100% for the first 6%.....and yes Dave Ramsey says to not be tempted by this and instead throw the money to debt payoff and establishing savings. That just isn't going to sit well with hubby.

Was wondering anyone else's thoughts on this.
----------------

I have to admit that I didn't pay all that much attention to that section because it doesn't apply for me or the people I purchased the book for.. However, I do know that the purpose of getting the 3-6 months of expenses in savings as soon as possible is to ward off having to go back into debt again if unexpected circumstances should arrive..

Maybe if you went back and read that section over again you'll find you missed something or didn't quite understand what he was saying.. (Financial lingo can be like trying to read/understand Greek - even when it's in simpler terms) or maybe someone with more experience with this system will pop in here and answer those questions for you..

Once you got the book, you couldn't put it down, could you? :teeth:

Lisa loves Pooh
08-22-2005, 05:26 PM
Once you got the book, you couldn't put it down, could you? :teeth:

Read it in a day :banana: --though I skimmed college and retirement (But found the bold example that applied to us about the 100%.)

I get what he is saying though--just more people disagreeing here on used versus new car and public versus private school than passing up instant 100% return on investment.

TNKBELL
08-22-2005, 05:42 PM
Read it in a day :banana: --though I skimmed college and retirement (But found the bold example that applied to us about the 100%.)

I get what he is saying though--just more people disagreeing here on used versus new car and public versus private school than passing up instant 100% return on investment.
I have to say that time being a most important factor with investing that stopping our 401K contribution(being ever so small!) is not an option. I also plan on increasing that as soon as we complete the other baby steps, by my estimate that won't be for about 2 years. In 2 years that's a good chunk of time that in my opinion, needs that little 401K contribution. I just think that Dave wants us to be gazelle intense and look at every possiblity to find money for that emergency savings fund, I don't think it's necessary to do EVERYTHING he recommends.IMOHO

minnie1928
08-22-2005, 08:05 PM
However--the only one problem I have, that no one has mentioned...is that he saves retirement for a later step--after you have your 3-6 months of expenses in savings.

Hubby's company matches 100% for the first 6%.....and yes Dave Ramsey says to not be tempted by this and instead throw the money to debt payoff and establishing savings. That just isn't going to sit well with hubby.

Was wondering anyone else's thoughts on this.

We have no credit card debt, but 2 fairly new car notes with payments of about $1100/mth (I don't believe in 84 month car loans!). We kept our 401k's at 6% in order to get the match. We kept the 401k going, largely because our car notes are in the 4% range and we can get them paid off relatively soon (mine this year, his next). I just couldn't justify letting free money go to waste.

amyup
08-22-2005, 08:36 PM
I wouldn't stop the retirement saving either. I might cut the contributions down to 6% what the company matches but I wouldn't go any lower. We stopped putting money in our emergeny savings to help pay off credit card debt, but we never stopped contributing to retirement.

Disneefun
08-23-2005, 07:18 AM
We did Dave's TMM and have everything but the house paid!!! But we didn't stop contributing to retirement. We looked long and hard at it and discovered that there were enough other areas where we could cut spending to get the snowball rolling without sacrificing the 401K contributions. Maybe we could have paid everything off quicker if we had quit contributing, but we just decided that we were more comfortable keeping that going since, as someone noted earlier, time is your best friend when saving for retirement and a free match is just too good to pass up.

I would say that if you have enough other areas where you can cut spending, you can keep doing the 401K and still get your snowball rolling along nicely. If you have no other areas where you can cut, then maybe the contributions need to be put on hold for just a little while in order to get your snowball rolling. I like Dave's plan, but I think there's room in it to adjust it to your personal situation.

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 09:21 AM
I wonder what DR really thinks and who he's aiming that approach towards.

His exception to the rule is those that are so totally sunk in debt--and make a low annual salary/wage--that it is okay for them to invest in retirement.

Not sure why he has that exception--when you consider that those with much more debt would need much more money going towards their debt.

In any case---we'll probably keep it. I just don't see hubby parting with it. He has been contributing for most of his 9 years of employment....with a couple of breaks every now and then.

Ardenne
08-23-2005, 09:55 AM
I wouldn't part with the retirement contribution, either. That's basically leaving money on the table, and given how much it'll compound over the years, that's a big mistake.

It's good to have an emergency fund, certainly, but not taking advantage of your employer match will cost you more in the long run than it's worth, IMHO. I'd bet most people can find something less crucial to pare from to work on saving up an emergency fund.

Re: Toyotas and Hondas -- when our last van was totalled (by a guy who shouldn't have even had a license -- he was going highway speeds on a 35-mph-road, jumped the sidewalk, and hit us in a gas station parking lot, and it turned out we were the 4th accident with injuries he had caused in less than 2 years!), we set out to buy a used Sienna or Odyssey because of their safety and reliability, but found the prices were so high that we wouldn't save much over new -- and the new ones could come with side-curtain airbags for all occupants, which statistically are tremendously effective. Since with our emergency savings + the insurance payment from our totalled van we were able to pay cash either way, we decided that it was worth the extra for the extra safety, for us but especially for the kids, since that's our primary family vehicle. That's the only time we've ever bought a new vehicle, but under those circumstances, it seemed worth the extra.

DMRick
08-23-2005, 10:19 AM
I haven't read the entire thread, but I will say we are advocates of buying a new car. Our truck is 5 years old and the car (soon to be replaced) is 9 (and we have had an offer for that Toyota for $2500). I bargain well and hard, and actually pay less than if I was buying a two year old car. I usually have the max amount of credit card points to put on top of that..and while I have a cc that can be used on either new or used, I also have one just useable on new, and I max it, while paying it off monthly. I generally pay $1000 under invoice and with our max points on the two cards, get another $3-5000 off. Can't do that with a used car. I find the bargaining is much better with new, especially if I do not buy off the lot, but order.
We live debt free, except when we decide it is in our best interest not to. When we found a 3% car loan, we decided it was foolish to use cash that was earning almost triple, to pay it off. Same with a mortage. Why pay off a mortage that is under 6% interest, when the same money invested is making more?
It's all about responsible debt. I would never pay the high percent credit cards charge, but on the other hand, I will use them to my advantage. I love the credit cards that give you 5% back on food, restaurants, drug store purchases, airfare, and gas (and 1% on all other items..including what people pay me to ship their eBay items). Why on earth, would I pay cash, when they are paying me this great discount to use a cc? Of course if you have no means to pay off the credit card each month, it's a lose lose situation. But if you are a responsible debtor, then you are ahead of the game.
We charge about 90-95% of all we purchase. I love to charge items that are free after rebate. You get money back, and it cost you nothing more than sales tax. Take those paybacks, and put them in a separate savings account. Use that for your extras, such as your Disney trips.
Remember, use your money to the best advantage for yourself. There is no one size fits all..but if you have enough to pay off your bills, make sure you are paying off the bills that cost more than you can earn through your investments.
As for retirement..it was a no brainer. Work matched some of our payments, and we took full use of it. Now that we are retired younger than the normal age, we see the benefit. So many of our friends have just social security and a minimum pension. Once we get to "real" retirment age (and that's coming up fast LOL), we'll be comfortable and will still be able to travel. Didn't miss it at the time when it was going out, will appreciate it soon when it comes in.

PS one more thing. As long as we carry collision, we do not find insurance on a new car much different from a 2 year old car. If we were buying a 7 or 8 year old car without collision/glass, the difference would be more substantial. We've used the glass, and been lucky to not need the collision. Also, apparently there is a "sucker born every minute", because I personally know people who have paid more for a used car than a comparable new car. Especially if buying via a rental place. And I also have friends who pay full price for a new car, without any discounts/bargaining. We walked out of a dealership just last week, because the guy laughed when I said I wouldn't pay more than $1,000 under invoice. I suggested he call me when they have a dealership contest going on, and he would get kickbacks from the manufacturer (he tried to tell me that never happened, but I told him, if he believes that, he needed to talk to his manager, since they weren't being honest with him). He actually called yesterday, but we decided to not get that brand after all.

miss missy
08-23-2005, 10:41 AM
Been following this thread....

I have to kinda giggle here, we are coming up with reasons NOT to do what he suggests totally. The biggest parts of his plan people buck are stopping 401k, NO car notes, NO CC's and paying off the mortgage early.

Now think about it, each on of us has a good reason, so we think, as to why this or that deosn't "work" in my situation. Well we are normal people, and Dave says, don't get advice from Normal people, Normal is broke!!!!

DR-"Broke, desperate and stupid are three brothers that run around together."

So I just wonder why we like his plan, yet wont do it???

I am doing alot of the things most of you won't do... BUT STILL NOT all, because in the end I WANT TO BE WEIRD !!!!!!!!

jmho

DMRick
08-23-2005, 11:00 AM
I don't agree "normal" is broke (and I'm not desperate or stupid). I personally like to make my money work the best for me it can..and for me, following his plan (paying cash, paying off bills..which in our case is usually low interest, vs what we can earn in investments), isn't the best thing for me. I actually make more, by using my money to make money. I like to make money, don't you? By the way, the biggest parts of his plan (401k, NO car notes, NO CC's and paying off the mortgage early), is uh..the biggest part of his plan. I've read his book..for me, I would end up with less, so why follow it? If it works for you, then go for it.
We've always been blue collar workers (and we always only had one job each, and turned down overtime, to spend time with our family on the weekends) yet here we are retired when hubby was 53, our only "retirement job" is eBay, and we travel a lot, and go away most weekends in our RV. We've done pretty good, just following what was common sense for us.

Been following this thread....

I have to kinda giggle here, we are coming up with reasons NOT to do what he suggests totally. The biggest parts of his plan people buck are stopping 401k, NO car notes, NO CC's and paying off the mortgage early.

Now think about it, each on of us has a good reason, so we think, as to why this or that deosn't "work" in my situation. Well we are normal people, and Dave says, don't get advice from Normal people, Normal is broke!!!!

Ardenne
08-23-2005, 11:10 AM
I don't agree that "normal is broke," either. If in your personal situation there are good, sound, rational reasons for doing precisely the opposite of what the book advocates, then go for it, IMHO. It seems to me that the key is to understand why he's giving the advice he's giving, and then use that understanding to make the best plan for YOUR individual situation.

Like DMRick, for instance, I carry credit cards, but make them work for me -- I get 5% of everything I spend on one toward my kids' 529s, and the other gets me free shipping from my favorite catalog plus 2% cash back on all purchases. I routinely charge things I could pay cash or write a check for, just to get that 2-5% cashback. I also find it useful for pay-at-the-pump gasoline (no getting the kids out of their car seats), online shopping, and things like making reservations -- like my Disney trip, for instance :) I pay no annual fees, and no interest b/c I pay it off in full every month, and each card pays *me* a few hundred dollars each year -- that's sensible money management, IMHO. The key, for me, is to have the credit cards but treat them like debit cards, rather than using them to carry debt.

It sounds like DR has a lot of good ideas. I'm not slamming him at all. But every family is different, and there are a lot of different ways to engage in smart money management.

miss missy
08-23-2005, 11:12 AM
I don't agree "normal" is broke (and I'm not desperate or stupid). I personally like to make my money work the best for me it can..and for me, following his plan (paying cash, paying off bills..which in our case is usually low interest, vs what we can earn in investments), isn't the best thing for me. I actually make more, by using my money to make money. I like to make money, don't you? By the way, the biggest parts of his plan (401k, NO car notes, NO CC's and paying off the mortgage early), is uh..the biggest part of his plan. I've read his book..for me, I would end up with less, so why follow it? If it works for you, then go for it.
We've always been blue collar workers (and we always only had one job each, and turned down overtime, to spend time with our family on the weekends) yet here we are retired when hubby was 53, our only "retirement job" is eBay, and we travel a lot, and go away most weekends in our RV. We've done pretty good, just following what was common sense for us.
What you did worked for you. Not knowing your life story I can't say if you could of been better off or not...

But MOST of us are NORMAL and BROKE! Period! I do not know many people in my world that are Debt free, but I do know LOTS who are in over their head or will be in time.

If we don't study up on this stuff, and I mean get an understanding of EVERY angle of finances... then we really can't say we know what we are talking about. We can say what works for us, but we can't say for sure we couldn't of done better.

Did you know the average millionaire reads 1 book on this subject a month ??? Well informed!

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 11:16 AM
Lots of great view points here! There's definitely no "one plan fits all" regarding money, investments, retirement, etc., (too many variables) but it seems that more and more people are finding that they are not satisfied with where they are and what they're doing.. Bottom line is if you keep doing the same thing over and over, you'll get the same result over and over.. If you're situation is good - then it's a good idea to stick with it - if it isn't, then it's time to "do something different".. What may be good now, may not be good later, but that's the great thing about life - the ability to switch gears when necessary.. :flower:

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 12:05 PM
I understand the no credit part...b/c I'm irresponsible with it--I lose track of how much you spend....only $10 adds up.

I think his plan is designed for people like me. And I believe he is right for the most part!

I mean think about it---why save for retirement, if you cannot afford to live now--well duh!!!! If bankruptcy is knocking on your door---time to give up that 100% match. While bankruptcy isn't on our door--but after last night's workbook exercise...we are very much a pay check to pay check family--it is time to evaluate. We will pull from other areas before getting rid of the 401K though.

His information is good and sound. And it is true--the Joneses, are usually broke and making stupid decisions.

And if you aren't keeping up with them--and you are indeed doing just fine and dandy--well then you aren't broke and stupid--and he makes reference that his book probably isn't for you--or you can just pick the parts that are for you. It'd take me a while to find the page that says that--but it did say it. (it might have been in the workbook).

I know I'm ready to live like the "millionaire next door". it has only taken a good 4 years or so to realize how to make that happen. That book is good too but isn't as blunt with how exactly to live like the millionaire next door.

I'm a financial dummy and I admit it. DR is the wakeup call that I needed.

DMRick
08-23-2005, 12:22 PM
I
But MOST of us are NORMAL and BROKE! Period! I do not know many people in my world that are Debt free, but I do know LOTS who are in over their head or will be in time. !

I really don't understand why anyone thinks it's normal to be broke. It may be normal, when you are young and just starting out to have to work harder than someone who has finally paid off the last of the kids school loans (school loans=cheap interest loans), and buy a little less than you would like, and use coupons at the supermarket (I still do) but I never would think being "broke" is normal. I know many young (including three of my own) kids starting out struggling, to get together that house down payment, but not broke. I live in a very working class neighborhood, and there is a newish car in each driveway, many of them vacation once a year, some camp (or own camps), some have both parents working, and some are sahm's. We visit outside often, when I usually have stuff from my garden to share. They talk, I listen, and while they aren't rich, I don't believe most of them think they are broke. They have garage sales and sell on eBay and babysit for extra vacation money, but broke to me, means you can't do those vacations, buy the newer car, send the kids off to private school, or even afford food on the table, etc. If you are doing those things, you may not have cash for yet other things, but I wouldn't consider you broke.
However, if this book/program will work for you, then go for it. I personally think people know what and how they should be spending (spend less than you bring in), to not have even more debt, but if you feel the need to be guided from a book, then why not?


I understand the no credit part...b/c I'm irresponsible with it--I lose track of how much you spend....only $10 adds up.

I mean think about it---why save for retirement, if you cannot afford to live now--well duh!!!! If bankruptcy is knocking on your door---time to give up that 100% match.

If you think that $10 disappears fast, wait until you see how fast the years disappear til you need that retirement. It's much easier to start saving for retirement now, than later, when you only have a few years to do it. Later, you may not have the opportunity to have the matching, and believe me, it takes almost as much money to live as a retired person, than when you were working, and that matching is a blessing. If you truly can't afford to live right now (shelter/food/clothing), than you are right..you need to eat, more than you need to retire. You may just not be someone who gets to retire:(

And if, as you mentioned, bankruptcy is knocking on your door (not your per se, yours as in anyones), while I'm sure no one thinks that is normal, you really do have to make serious changes.

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 12:27 PM
Read another interesting book recently about retirement.. It was actual stories of how, when and why people retired, their style of retirement and what it has cost them to do so..

I've also read numerous articles that have dealt with the overinflated figures that are tossed about freely in regards to what is needed to retire.. Again, there are too many variables to flat out state you will need "xxx" to retire.. Some people may want to retire in an exclusive high-cost area and live the finer life; others may want to pull up stakes and spend the rest of their lives seeing the country in a motor home; and still others may choose to stay right where they are and change absolutely nothing about their lifestyles..

Figure out what retirement lifestyle you would like - figure the cost - add a cushion for inflation - determine how long it will take you to get there - and then go for it!

Again - no one style/cost with be the same for everyone.. :flower:

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 01:04 PM
I

I really don't understand why anyone thinks it's normal to be broke. ...


And if, as you mentioned, bankruptcy is knocking on your door (not your per se, yours as in anyones), while I'm sure no one thinks that is normal, you really do have to make serious changes.

I was trying to explain what DR's perspective was. Normal today is "buy now pay later". And there is a problem with that and that is DR's point, I think.

If you have zilch in savings--you are broke. Regardless if you can pay on your debts. Affording something is not the same as being able to pay minimum payments. And when car loans have gotten to the point that they are 72 and 84 months....something is wrong.

To really have the perspective, you need to read the book (and I'm not sure if you mentioned you did or not).

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 01:06 PM
If you think that $10 disappears fast, wait until you see how fast the years disappear til you need that retirement.

We are miles ahead of most people when it comes to retirement.

As far as the $10.....it was in reference to...

"this only costs $10, this only costs $5---this is only $2, it's only $15"

You may not have that bad habit--but I do.

Goody for you that your life is so on track.

DMRick
08-23-2005, 01:25 PM
To really have the perspective, you need to read the book (and I'm not sure if you mentioned you did or not).

Yes, I did read it. I guess I think of broke as pretty much bankrupt, having no funds to pay bills. We've had times in the begining when we had no savings, and I know others here are the same..but it didn't make me feel broke.

That's great that you are miles ahead of others for retirement..then what I said wouldn't pertain to you, but to those who were thinking of not saving for retirement.

I'm not sure if the "goody for you" was you being snarky or what (and I'm not sure why you thought you had to be if it was), but I think you are misunderstanding what I wrote. Obviously, you are doing fine..but perhaps some others, don't understand that you can use a credit card responsibly, and continue to save for retirement, in spite of what the book says. If no one reading this has any money to pay anything off at all, all the books in the world won't help. It has to start by spending less than you are bringing in. I've done that, and I am not ashamed to admit we did without to not have bills and start a savings. Obviously if someone is living hand to mouth, and there is nothing save, there is nothing to use to pay off. Reading that you should pay attention to the $10 (and then don't spend it) may work for you, and that's fine (my daughet writes down everything she spends..always has, and that works for her). As I said, if someone needs the book to make them spend less than they make, or to be accountable, nothing wrong with that.

can'twait
08-23-2005, 01:30 PM
Well, this is a great thread!

We have been struggling with this forever. DH inherited some BAD money management genes and I was raised by grandparents who were born during the Depression. Talk about night and day. He calls me cheap but I explained that cheap is when you have it and don't spend it. Also, I've noticed that people who have money have it because they don't spend it. Ever notice the wealthiest people are the stingiest? Well, how do you think they got wealthy?! Also, just because people spend, that DOES NOT mean they have it. Ever see that commercial with the guy on the lawnmower saying he has a house, country club membership and is way over his head? So true. You never know exactly what the Jones' financial situation REALLY is. Anyway, DH has come around a LOT but I'm trying to get him to pay cash only except for internet purchases and the odd times when we get stuck without enough cash in our pockets. I'm trying to get him to not go nuts at Christmas, as that always puts us over the edge. He pays the bills and whines about how the savings account is dwindling, so I said, show me the money, where's the budget? He said there's no budget. I said WHAT? Don't you make sure we spend LESS than we earn? He said, um, no. If we need it we buy it. I said, um, NOT. If we don't have the cash, we don't buy it. Period. Needless to say, the conversation is still ongoing. I have no problems with paying off credit cards in full every month but we just don't seem to be able to do that and it spirals.

As far as cars, we bought a new Honda and a new Toyota last year, only because our other cars were so old and broke down so much that we were afraid to drive them and the repair costs were rising. Mine was a "dealer" car, with 3K miles on it so we saved $3K on it, and he bought his during a promotion and got a great price and some free add-ons. We found that Hondas and Toyotas that were 4 years old were selling for only a few thousand dollars less than new ones. The newer ones had better safety ratings, and besides, you don't know where that used car has been. :rolleyes:

RichNKatHolly: We live in Westchester. The average price of a SHACK in our town is $700K. Bananas! And Donald Trump is building luxury apartments in White Plains. Just what we need.

I agree, money management is like dieting. What works for someone else may or may not work for you, but it's interesting to read what others do.

All I can say is, if we had invested all the $ we have thrown away over the years on credit card interest, we'd be rolling in it now. Sigh.

Ardenne
08-23-2005, 01:33 PM
DMRick, I know this is OT, but I have to ask -- what is that incredible looking dessert next to the cute little boy in your sig picture? Is that something from Disney? It looks awesome!

Ardenne
08-23-2005, 01:50 PM
We have been struggling with this forever. DH inherited some BAD money management genes and I was raised by grandparents who were born during the Depression. Talk about night and day.

Boy, can I ever empathize with this. I was raised on Depression-era savings habits, too, with a huge aversion to debt. DH's idea of "budgeting," on the other hand, was to spend his pay until he ran out, at which point he'd spend nothing -- and subsist on bean-paste sandwiches and ramen noodles -- until he got paid again. His "groceries" probably didn't cost him more than $2/week, so he managed ok that way, but it wasn't a style of living I was comfortable with.

That first year after we got married took a huge amount of adjustment, but we've pretty much hit a happy balance by now, thank goodness!

DMRick
08-23-2005, 02:00 PM
DMRick, I know this is OT, but I have to ask -- what is that incredible looking dessert next to the cute little boy in your sig picture? Is that something from Disney? It looks awesome!
It's the Kitchen Sink from Beaches and Cream. That's my grandson, and he just loved it. I didn't care for all the mixed flavors, but it was fun. It's about $23 or so..we got it back when you could use the $11 vouchers for a meal and that was included. He talked about it for months before the trip (it was all his!) and months after. He did a good job on it.

and subsist on bean-paste sandwiches and ramen noodles. His "groceries" probably didn't cost him more than $2/week

Hmm..did you marry my son? Is this his wife in incognitto? Of course he ate like that, because he liked those things..and he wanted to hold onto his money LOL! What a difference a wife made.

TNKBELL
08-23-2005, 02:06 PM
I think it's misleading to assume that because someone has a nice home and newer cars that they are not struggling. That describes us to a tee! We live paycheck to paycheck and live in nice neighborhood and drive decent vehicles. DR's book is a Godsend to us because we needed to realize that WE DON"T NEED IT NOW!! I've been so concerned in the past with keeping up appearances that I justified purchases on credit and loans. Since I've starting homeschooling (4 years ago) I have been educating myself on financial matters and I feel that we are still in the process of a total metamorphisis. Lisa... I know what you mean about $10 here and $5 there, that's how we put $5000.00 on our credit card! I think the thing after reading TMM that keeps replaying in my head over and over is "You have to live like no one else, so that someday you can live like no one else." This book has helped us so much!
Even though we are still contributing to our 401K, I still feel like we are still in line with everything in DR's books. I agree with other posters who said that it's throwing away free money if your company matches.
DMRICK... I think you are just an exception to how most people really live, you have a real handle on finances and could teach this generation a lot about money and spending. Am I wrong in assuming that most people in my age bracket 20's-30's are just trying to have it all now?

DMRick
08-23-2005, 02:10 PM
Actually, I think cheap is when someone doesn't buy anything, even if they need it. I like to think I'm frugal and careful. I spend it, but I like to get the most for my money. For instance, I vacation, but would never stay in a deluxe..no interest at all, unless they suddenly started to cost the same as values and mods LOL (I know a cheap person who would never spend money on a vacation at all, unless he won it and no taxes were due).

I eat out, but use coupons and discounts (same person as above, only buys store brands at the supermarket, even if he doesn't like them. Now I buy my share, but good grief, I wouldn't if I didn't like them) usually. I'll go out to a nice place without a coupon without being upset, but I am happy when I get to take advantage of the discounts. I love Restaurant.com.

I buy new cars, but keep the old for a long time, and bargain and bargain on the new. The person above..well, his car is so bad, he can't drive from his state to ours, because the car won't make it. And when his tailpipe broke..he used (and still uses) a tomato can to fix it.

I buy gifts when invited to an occasion (or give money, depending), but I try to find something the person will like at less than full price. The person above, will not respond to invites..he thinks if they think he didn't get the invite, he doesn't need to buy a gift.

And he only can get calls into his phone, because he has some special pricing, where it only costs .10 a minute to call out, and he won't spend it!

Even if he admired a new coat, if it doesn't come fromt eh second hand shop, he would never buy it.

I think he's cheap, not frugal or careful LOL..so does he.

Oh, did I mention he prob has every penny he ever earned? But not much happinest. Oh, and it's a close relative LOL!

He calls me cheap but I explained that cheap is when you have it and don't spend it. Also, I've noticed that people who have money have it because they don't spend it. Ever notice the wealthiest people are the stingiest? Well, how do you think they got wealthy?!

Spoisal
08-23-2005, 02:15 PM
Am I wrong in assuming that most people in my age bracket 20's-30's are just trying to have it all now?

You are so right! At least with the people I know.

I just ordered this book from Amazon (ok, you must use a CC to order online! HAHA!!).

We don't have any CC debt or car payments, but we do have a monster mortgage. well, to me it is a monster, but I guess it is average? 325K. (with escrows it is 2150/mo). We are guilty of using our house as an ATM, but the money that we have taken out of our home's equity has paid for major home improvements (new kitchen, 2 rooms added on, and an inground pool). This was to avoid moving, which would have cost more - we outgrew our home - so we thought. We really need to get this mortgage paid off & I am hoping that this book will give me some tools & ideas to help.

Spoisal
08-23-2005, 02:21 PM
Just switched from AKL to POP for our November trip & saved almost $1200!! Now THAT feels good. bye bye :wave: animals though.........

DMRick
08-23-2005, 02:24 PM
DMRICK... I think you are just an exception to how most people really live, you have a real handle on finances and could teach this generation a lot about money and spending. Am I wrong in assuming that most people in my age bracket 20's-30's are just trying to have it all now?

Actually, I did teach a Sunday School class on finances a number of years ago:)

I agree that some are trying to have it all, but no, I really don't think most. I have three children between the ages of 30 and 37, several couples in church your age, and lots of young neighbors. I'm pretty close to them, and while I would say most do not have savings beyond a few paychecks, I don't consider them broke, and I don't think they do either. I've taught a few of them to eBay, and I know that has been good for their finances. While many may be existing from paycheck to paycheck, I do not believe most are racking up their credit cards, but are paying for the cars and housing they have now. But as long as they are paying it, eventually, their paychecks will go up (depending on their jobs, but around here, most are working in the types of jobs that have raises), and savings would go up then, as opposed to overpaying cc cards. We didn't always have savings, but always had a car payment and house payment, and our kids went to private school. Not easy on a blue collar salary, but doable. I wonder if we see it more on this board, because so many of us want and get that Disney vacation.

I guess I just have to repeat what I said earlier. Spend less than you bring in, and eventually you'll do ok and put that in savings. For us, we've always paid off the cc monthly (except for a time when my husband was on strike..and we made just payments, until we knew when it would end), and if you don't want to do that, a book won't do it for you. I feel bad, that so many on this thread, have gotten in over their heads. It must be a very bad feeling, and I'm sure the cause of marital arguments. When money is short, usually, so are tempers.

DMRick
08-23-2005, 02:26 PM
Just switched from AKL to POP for our November trip & saved almost $1200!! Now THAT feels good. bye bye :wave: animals though.........

But you can go visit them. It's a great resort to visit. Good job, and that $1200 will go a long way!!

RichNKatHolly
08-23-2005, 02:34 PM
Well, this is a great thread!

RichNKatHolly: We live in Westchester. The average price of a SHACK in our town is $700K. Bananas! And Donald Trump is building luxury apartments in White Plains. Just what we need.

I agree, money management is like dieting. What works for someone else may or may not work for you, but it's interesting to read what others do.

All I can say is, if we had invested all the $ we have thrown away over the years on credit card interest, we'd be rolling in it now. Sigh.

Westchester is quite beautiful. I was there on a route of jobs a few months ago. I can see what you mean about the prices! Donald Trump has 2 sets of apartments here too, but they are a bit older. You should see what you have to do to rent there - they would NEVER take us!!

DMRick - I did order the book and I cannot wait to get it. I'm sure that alot of what he says is common sense, but some of us (most people in the US from what I've seen and read) need that physical peice of bound paper to encourage us to keep on the right track. There is a huge push and desire to have all these fabulous things, vacations, homes, cars, etc. but not many of us make the $$ to get them. Most of us make just enough (or just not enough) to put food on the table. I would assume that most people my DH and I come into contact with think we just have the greatest, carefree life. That is soooo not the case. We do have no debt, but that is because of several past mistakes that leave us with no choice (no one in their right mind will give us a credit card, which is actually working for us, because it's very tempting for me to take it and max it out all in one day).

What I'm saying, if for some of us, it is hard to say no. Hard to stay away from the mall. Not because I want to keep up with the Joneses, but I like STUFF, expensive stuff. I bet if I never watched MTV or read magazines I wouldn't desire half of the stuff I do.

Sorry so long, I have just reread it and I rambled!

dvcgirl
08-23-2005, 02:41 PM
I

I really don't understand why anyone thinks it's normal to be broke. It may be normal, when you are young and just starting out to have to work harder than someone who has finally paid off the last of the kids school loans (school loans=cheap interest loans), and buy a little less than you would like, and use coupons at the supermarket (I still do) but I never would think being "broke" is normal. I know many young (including three of my own) kids starting out struggling, to get together that house down payment, but not broke. I live in a very working class neighborhood, and there is a newish car in each driveway, many of them vacation once a year, some camp (or own camps), some have both parents working, and some are sahm's. We visit outside often, when I usually have stuff from my garden to share. They talk, I listen, and while they aren't rich, I don't believe most of them think they are broke. They have garage sales and sell on eBay and babysit for extra vacation money, but broke to me, means you can't do those vacations, buy the newer car, send the kids off to private school, or even afford food on the table, etc. If you are doing those things, you may not have cash for yet other things, but I wouldn't consider you broke.
However, if this book/program will work for you, then go for it. I personally think people know what and how they should be spending (spend less than you bring in), to not have even more debt, but if you feel the need to be guided from a book, then why not?



If you think that $10 disappears fast, wait until you see how fast the years disappear til you need that retirement. It's much easier to start saving for retirement now, than later, when you only have a few years to do it. Later, you may not have the opportunity to have the matching, and believe me, it takes almost as much money to live as a retired person, than when you were working, and that matching is a blessing. If you truly can't afford to live right now (shelter/food/clothing), than you are right..you need to eat, more than you need to retire. You may just not be someone who gets to retire:(

And if, as you mentioned, bankruptcy is knocking on your door (not your per se, yours as in anyones), while I'm sure no one thinks that is normal, you really do have to make serious changes.

Ahhh, well I think you are jumping to a huge conclusion to think that people who have nice new cars and take yearly vacations are not broke. And even if they're not broke, some are probably not saving for retirement (and if they are it may not be enough) and many probably don't have even the slightest hint of an emergency fund. These boards are full of people like that. According to Motley Fool the average American household is carrying $8,562 of credit card debt. Since many of us have no CC debt, you can imagine how much debt some people are in. We are currently at a zero savings rate as well in the US. It's just mind boggling.

Times have changed, when I was a kid growing up my parents lived paycheck to paycheck. Many, many people do these days as well. The difference is that when I was a kid, there were no yearly vacations to WDW or combo WDW/Disney cruise visits. We took lots of day trips and maybe two vacations to Florida. But we didn't fly...we drove. When I was a kid in the 70s, maybe two or three kids went on trips like the average trip taken today. I have a little cousin who is seven years old who lives in a blue-collar neighborhood in NJ. She's the only kid in her class who has not been to WDW. There weren't luxury cars sitting in middle class neighborhood driveways. The difference....credit is given to anyone and everyone now. And many, many people in our country are up to their neck in debt. And many are not saving for retirement. Most people don't even have a clue as to how much money you actually need in retirement...and when they find out, it's positively horrifying to them.

The bankruptcy laws have been so lax in this country and so it was very easy for people to claim bankruptcy, run up cards and then just be able to start over. Now, it will not be nearly as easy for people to get out of trouble. So, hopefully people will be a little more mindful of the debt that they're carrying.

ziggystardust
08-23-2005, 02:44 PM
What I'm saying, if for some of us, it is hard to say no. Hard to stay away from the mall. Not because I want to keep up with the Joneses, but I like STUFF, expensive stuff. I bet if I never watched MTV or read magazines I wouldn't desire half of the stuff I do.


I'm the same way. I want everything, and everything is expensive. I'm getting better though, not buying things just b/c its on sale. I'm putting things on hold, and if I am actually thinking about it the next day, I'll go back. 90% of the time I don't.

I am trying my hardest to clean up my debt, its not much, but still too much for me. I live on LI, so I know first hand about housing costs. Scares me to think I may never own a home here.

When you ordered your book, did you get the workbook too?

Ardenne
08-23-2005, 02:47 PM
It's the Kitchen Sink from Beaches and Cream. That's my grandson, and he just loved it. I didn't care for all the mixed flavors, but it was fun. It's about $23 or so..we got it back when you could use the $11 vouchers for a meal and that was included. He talked about it for months before the trip (it was all his!) and months after. He did a good job on it.

Thanks for the info - I'll have to let my kids try that when we go!

Hmm..did you marry my son? Is this his wife in incognitto? Of course he ate like that, because he liked those things..and he wanted to hold onto his money LOL! What a difference a wife made.

I guess they're just kindred spirits. I'm pretty sure my in-laws have never even considered joining a Disney board! :earboy2:

RichNKatHolly
08-23-2005, 02:53 PM
I'm the same way. I want everything, and everything is expensive. I'm getting better though, not buying things just b/c its on sale. I'm putting things on hold, and if I am actually thinking about it the next day, I'll go back. 90% of the time I don't.

I am trying my hardest to clean up my debt, its not much, but still too much for me. I live on LI, so I know first hand about housing costs. Scares me to think I may never own a home here.

When you ordered your book, did you get the workbook too?

I did not get the workbook because I didn't want to spend too much. I did order the Kid's book though. My DS totally takes after me - wants everything! I wasn't sure I would need the workbook because we do not have any debt, we just don't have any anything. We work, pay the bills (sometimes we don't quite make those) and then it's gone. We have been lucky with little windfalls every now and then and that is how we pay for vacations. We will though be taking a break from vacation for a while - at least big ticket vacations anyway.

We rent also ($1600 a month). With the rents the way they are, the housing market being the way it is, and my DHs low salary, I don't think we'll own anytime soon. I know LI is worse even.

The shopping bug is hard to beat! I haven't bought a thing in weeks, it stinks. Good luck - let me know if you want to sponsor each other in some sort of 12 step program! :teeth:

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 02:53 PM
Just switched from AKL to POP for our November trip & saved almost $1200!! Now THAT feels good. bye bye :wave: animals though.........
--------------

I'm with you! LOL You're going to be in Disney anyhow, so grab the $1200 and spend half a day in AK... :teeth:

DMRick
08-23-2005, 03:07 PM
I think our opinions of broke may differer. When I think of broke, I think of not being able to buy neccesities. I understand lots of people do not have savings..however I don't think that makes a person broke. It means IMO if there was an emergency, they may be in trouble. But I talk to my kids (we vacation often together, spend lots of time together, and we discuss finances), and other young people I know. Close enough to them to know if they are in trouble. When I say vacations, I'm not talking about the $5,000 or more Disney vacations. There are nice vacations to be had for a lot less. That won't break a bank that has planned for them. While they may not yet, be all saving for retirement, I know many are. We have two big places many people are employed here, and the matching is a hard thing to give up. Most I have talked with feel it comes out of their pay, and they never had it to begin with.
I've not said that no one should get the book..but I wonder..how many realize that you still even with the book, have to spend less money on "stuff" to make it work? It's not a miracle answer. Most I'm reading here, will not be able to pay off a $200 - 300,000 home mortage, no matter how many books they buy. It still takes control. I would start by writing down everything you buy..and see where you can save on that. The trouble with liking stuff, unless you have control, you will continue to like stuff. A book won't turn that off :(

By the way..the cars sitting in my neighborhood are not luxury cars..I hope I didn't give anyone that opinion.

Ahhh, well I think you are jumping to a huge conclusion to think that people who have nice new cars and take yearly vacations are not broke. And even if they're not broke, some are probably not saving for retirement (and if they are it may not be enough) and many probably don't have even the slightest hint of an emergency fund.

DMRick
08-23-2005, 03:12 PM
I'm putting things on hold, and if I am actually thinking about it the next day, I'll go back. 90% of the time I don't.

This is a wonderful start. Impulse buying can be the worse. My husband would have owned a lot more "junk" years ago, if the rule wasn't , we had to go back for it LOL.

minnie1928
08-23-2005, 03:18 PM
While bankruptcy isn't on our door--but after last night's workbook exercise...we are very much a pay check to pay check family--it is time to evaluate.

Are you doing the Financial Peace University? If so, are you doing the class or at home? Just curious....

ziggystardust
08-23-2005, 03:28 PM
The shopping bug is hard to beat! I haven't bought a thing in weeks, it stinks. Good luck - let me know if you want to sponsor each other in some sort of 12 step program! :teeth:

My name is Eileen, and I'm a shopaholic. Did I mention that I saw this great winter jacket the other day, it was only $285! ;) and that was at Century 21!

I was good and I didn't buy it, but obviously I'm still thinking about it. A anti -shopping thread might be warranted. :goodvibes

I took a few first steps over the last year to get rid of my shopping debt and to save some $$. I took out a very low interest loan from my bank to pay off all the CCs (this loan will be paid off by March - a yr early). I have one for emergencies, which was actually my first card ever, so I'm hoping by leaving it open to add to my credit rating (which is already good) and another one that I use for online stuff and electronic type stuff. It gives me piece of mind (my DBF's check card # was stolen not too long ago) That has a very low balance which I hope to pay off as soon as I get back from WDW.

RichNKatHolly
08-23-2005, 03:41 PM
Actually, I should clarify. I don't think a book will stop me from liking shopping. BUT, having something like the book sitting on my counter and seeing it every morning will help me fight the urge, more so than just saying "oh no, you really shouldn't." It may not be logic everyone can understand, but that would work for me. I am also interested in how DR thinks you should cut back, etc. I like books, informational books (I've been known to read a ton of travel books rather than novels, etc.). I figure it can't hurt to read it. Whether or not I will go full on board with some type of plan I cannot say.

I know that the only true thing that will work for me is to curb my appetite for Coach, Burberry for the kids, Seven jeans for me, or whatever... That will come in time - maybe it will be a direct result of the hapiness getting a savings plan together will bring. Only time will tell. For now, I'm willing to read a $15 book and see if I get some ideas or motivation.

ZIGGY - the coat sounds great. Glad you passed on it. I just did the same thing online. A store near me (which has an online site) just put their True Religion and some other jeans on $99. Boy, was that tempting! I also tried on a georgous coat (at Marshalls mind You) only to find it was $225! I left it there :) ... My name is Katrina and I'm on my way to gaining control (but wouldn't my rear look great in those jeans)! :banana:

I think our opinions of broke may differer. When I think of broke, I think of not being able to buy neccesities. I understand lots of people do not have savings..however I don't think that makes a person broke. It means IMO if there was an emergency, they may be in trouble. But I talk to my kids (we vacation often together, spend lots of time together, and we discuss finances), and other young people I know. Close enough to them to know if they are in trouble. When I say vacations, I'm not talking about the $5,000 or more Disney vacations. There are nice vacations to be had for a lot less. That won't break a bank that has planned for them. While they may not yet, be all saving for retirement, I know many are. We have two big places many people are employed here, and the matching is a hard thing to give up. Most I have talked with feel it comes out of their pay, and they never had it to begin with.
I've not said that no one should get the book..but I wonder..how many realize that you still even with the book, have to spend less money on "stuff" to make it work? It's not a miracle answer. Most I'm reading here, will not be able to pay off a $200 - 300,000 home mortage, no matter how many books they buy. It still takes control. I would start by writing down everything you buy..and see where you can save on that. The trouble with liking stuff, unless you have control, you will continue to like stuff. A book won't turn that off :(

By the way..the cars sitting in my neighborhood are not luxury cars..I hope I didn't give anyone that opinion.

RichNKatHolly
08-23-2005, 03:44 PM
I believe the thread is referring to DR's definition of broke. I don't feel broke, but I don't have any money either.

I think our opinions of broke may differer. When I think of broke, I think of not being able to buy neccesities. I understand lots of people do not have savings..however I don't think that makes a person broke. It means IMO if there was an emergency, they may be in trouble. But I talk to my kids (we vacation often together, spend lots of time together, and we discuss finances), and other young people I know. Close enough to them to know if they are in trouble. When I say vacations, I'm not talking about the $5,000 or more Disney vacations. There are nice vacations to be had for a lot less. That won't break a bank that has planned for them. While they may not yet, be all saving for retirement, I know many are. We have two big places many people are employed here, and the matching is a hard thing to give up. Most I have talked with feel it comes out of their pay, and they never had it to begin with.
I've not said that no one should get the book..but I wonder..how many realize that you still even with the book, have to spend less money on "stuff" to make it work? It's not a miracle answer. Most I'm reading here, will not be able to pay off a $200 - 300,000 home mortage, no matter how many books they buy. It still takes control. I would start by writing down everything you buy..and see where you can save on that. The trouble with liking stuff, unless you have control, you will continue to like stuff. A book won't turn that off :(

By the way..the cars sitting in my neighborhood are not luxury cars..I hope I didn't give anyone that opinion.

Muushka
08-23-2005, 04:21 PM
I miss Larry Burkett. He was a wonderful financial counselor.

But his information lives on! If you want a Christian perspective, do a google search under his name. Lots of books and tools.

DMRick
08-23-2005, 04:34 PM
I think we need to start a thread where you can post the purchase you want to make and we'll let you know if it's a good idea LOL! Sort of like when my daughter decided to get a dog, and we discussed it, and things were bought up she hadn't thought about (and I love dogs). You post the item you thought about gettng (but you aren't allowed to get it til it's discussed) and other's will respond to reasons why you should or shouldn't.

I'm not a clothes brand name shopper, with the exception of end of season very good sales (where you get an Alfred Dunner Sport coat for $6), so I'll prob always tell you to put it back..but I bet other's can come up with good reasons.

I can even go first (and if it takes off, maybe we can move it to it's own thread). I want an embroidery machine. Not the cheap one, but the one that is about $800. I figure I could personalize golf towels and bibs, and sell them on eBay. Who wants to talk me out of it?

ziggystardust
08-23-2005, 04:42 PM
I can even go first (and if it takes off, maybe we can move it to it's own thread). I want an embroidery machine. Not the cheap one, but the one that is about $800. I figure I could personalize golf towels and bibs, and sell them on eBay. Who wants to talk me out of it?

I say if you can get your money back within a reasonable time frame go for it!

I'm not a good influence, its taking everything I have to not go back and buy that beautiful Marc Jacobs coat. Oh it was so pretty!

dvcgirl
08-23-2005, 04:51 PM
I think we need to start a thread where you can post the purchase you want to make and we'll let you know if it's a good idea LOL! Sort of like when my daughter decided to get a dog, and we discussed it, and things were bought up she hadn't thought about (and I love dogs). You post the item you thought about gettng (but you aren't allowed to get it til it's discussed) and other's will respond to reasons why you should or shouldn't.

I'm not a clothes brand name shopper, with the exception of end of season very good sales (where you get an Alfred Dunner Sport coat for $6), so I'll prob always tell you to put it back..but I bet other's can come up with good reasons.

I can even go first (and if it takes off, maybe we can move it to it's own thread). I want an embroidery machine. Not the cheap one, but the one that is about $800. I figure I could personalize golf towels and bibs, and sell them on eBay. Who wants to talk me out of it?

Trust me when I tell you that it would be an awful idea for anyone here to give people advice as to whether they should buy things or not...lol! Within this thread I can pick out about 10 things that I've read that make me think..."well, they shouldn't be buying that, or taking that vacation or have that car." But, then you get angry responses that you're a know it all, or how dare you to judge me. And really all that you're doing is giving advice to a person who asked for it. When people post things like..."Should I take this vacation?" and then go on about low finances the only answer that they're looking for is.....*yes!!*

wdwpluto
08-23-2005, 04:58 PM
Read another interesting book recently about retirement.. It was actual stories of how, when and why people retired, their style of retirement and what it has cost them to do so..


Sounds like an interesting read, could you share the author/title please? Thanks!

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 05:21 PM
Sounds like an interesting read, could you share the author/title please? Thanks!
--------------

"Rags to Retirement" by Gail Liberman and Alan Lavine

Really entertaining reading.. A couple of the people chose to live outside the U.S. - one chose to live on a boat (that would have been my brother, had he not met the wonderful woman he's with now - instead they bought a place in Vero Beach, are making money hand over fist on real estate there and now use the two boats "just for fun") - one couple turned into full-time RVer's - etc.. Very interesting - what different people consider the "ideal" retirement..

But....shhhhhhhh..this is another book I purchased for someone else but just HAD to read first before I passed it on.. (Have I mentioned lately how much I LOVE books? LOL ) :flower:

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 05:26 PM
I can even go first (and if it takes off, maybe we can move it to it's own thread). I want an embroidery machine. Not the cheap one, but the one that is about $800. I figure I could personalize golf towels and bibs, and sell them on eBay. Who wants to talk me out of it?
--------------------

The concept of a thread of this nature is awesome, however, considering a simple thread such as "Should I use a stroller for my 2.5 year-old?" turns into a free for all in the time it takes to make a piece of toast, I'm afraid it would get REAL ugly - REAL quick..

It's a shame too because it really could be quite helpful.. :flower:

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 05:46 PM
I'm not sure if the "goody for you" was you being snarky or what (and I'm not sure why you thought you had to be if it was), but I think you are misunderstanding what I wrote.

Bad day--it was a snark...I'm sorry!

It is important to note that it is possible to live without credit cards. A debit card can be used in the place of a cc in most cases.

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 05:50 PM
It is important to note that it is possible to live without credit cards. A debit card can be used in the place of a cc in most cases.
-----------------------

Second generation of NO credit cards here and I've managed just fine (and probably spent WAAAAAAAY less money.. LOL ) Hopefully I'll go to my grave never having used one.. ;)

Spoisal
08-23-2005, 05:52 PM
It is important to note that it is possible to live without credit cards. A debit card can be used in the place of a cc in most cases.

That is true, but if you are the victim of fraud - your credit card will protect you, where your debit card will not. I have been the victim of fraud & my credit card handled everything, it was effortless. If you pay with a debit card, you don't get the same amount of protection. I use a debit card around town (probably shouldn't), but I only use a credit card on vacation or on line. Just be careful!

sunkissed212
08-23-2005, 05:52 PM
i just got back from my local library and unfortunately they don't have this in their holdings. I'll have to check out the bookstore...i'm definitly interested in reading it.

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 05:57 PM
Are you doing the Financial Peace University? If so, are you doing the class or at home? Just curious....

Just doing the home study of TMM.

Take a hand at that first.

We've done Crown--but--though we believe in it--it was more a bible says this so do this kind of thing. Shamefully--we are in the same boat we were in when we took it.

The TMM book is the FIRST time ever where it clicked in my head--no matter how many times people say spend less than you make, save for a rainy day, yadda yadda yadda.

To me it was like the book of revelation for money. The end of my money world will come soon if I do not take steps now.

With everything the way it is in our country---I've been scared for about a year. I don't wish to be that way anymore.


And one more note---they have those "creative financing mortgages" now--you know, the interest only. The bubble will burst when all those flood the market b/c people can no longer afford to keep them.

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 06:01 PM
I miss Larry Burkett. He was a wonderful financial counselor.

But his information lives on! If you want a Christian perspective, do a google search under his name. Lots of books and tools.


There are actually christian/biblical references in Dave Ramsey's book--which I was surprise.

Crown was great---but it didn't knock it into you like DR did. I've done the Crown study--I think this is a supplement that I should have read along with crown.

FirstTimer
08-23-2005, 06:02 PM
I told DH about this thread and about the book and how I was gonna buy it. He said it's impossible to be debt free, use cash only. I said, we'll see about that. Granted he's closer to this task than me (1 more year on car payment, will be done this year with student loans and has no credit cards) but still doesn't see how it's possible. Since I've *ahem* have had some indulgences in the past it will take me a little longer but I'm up for the challenge. :dog2: <---just like the dog

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 06:08 PM
That is true, but if you are the victim of fraud - your credit card will protect you, where your debit card will not. I have been the victim of fraud & my credit card handled everything, it was effortless. If you pay with a debit card, you don't get the same amount of protection. I use a debit card around town (probably shouldn't), but I only use a credit card on vacation or on line. Just be careful!
---------------------------

There was an article in the newspaper just the other day.. A debit card with the Visa logo on it now affords exactly the same protection.. Debit cards are becoming very popular as people begin to shy away from credit card debt.. :flower:

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 06:09 PM
Trust me when I tell you that it would be an awful idea for anyone here to give people advice as to whether they should buy things or not...lol! Within this thread I can pick out about 10 things that I've read that make me think..."well, they shouldn't be buying that, or taking that vacation or have that car." But, then you get angry responses that you're a know it all, or how dare you to judge me. And really all that you're doing is giving advice to a person who asked for it. When people post things like..."Should I take this vacation?" and then go on about low finances the only answer that they're looking for is.....*yes!!*

You must be having fun with siggy's :)

My marathon trip is virtually free.

I am going to live now, so I can live like noone else later so that future trips will not be a problem :) We have actually never indebted ourselves for the luxury of a trip---however, it's all the other crap that got us into "trouble". Like some we are not in trouble now as we have ways out of a bad problem.

However--it has taken me a few years to get over keeping up with the joneses...and this book was just the final wake up call to realize--that keeping up really isn't that important. I never really tried to keep up--but have felt jealous of others for years.....and finally that jealousy has all melted away :).

DR talks about sacrificing now so you won't have to sacrifice later and eat Alpo--which sadly will happen to a lot of people.


Never judge a person's financial state by what their siggy says.

Spoisal
08-23-2005, 06:10 PM
---------------------------

There was an article in the newspaper just the other day.. A debit card with the Visa logo on it now affords exactly the same protection.. Debit cards are becoming very popular as people begin to shy away from credit card debt.. :flower:

hey - that is really great news because I love using my debit card...the money comes right out of my checking account - immediately. What does DR say about this in TMM? anything?

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 06:10 PM
That is true, but if you are the victim of fraud - your credit card will protect you, where your debit card will not. I have been the victim of fraud & my credit card handled everything, it was effortless. If you pay with a debit card, you don't get the same amount of protection. I use a debit card around town (probably shouldn't), but I only use a credit card on vacation or on line. Just be careful!

I didn't think so--but VISA does as spoken about in his book (complete with the regulation blip from VISA that affirms this).

I'd have to check with MC.

RichNKatHolly
08-23-2005, 06:11 PM
Being "forced" into not having credit cards was like an awakening for me. We were using the credit cards like a supplemental income. It's bad when you think of your credit card and money and not a loan (a very high interest loan). I really didn't think we could live without them, but here we are. Paycheck to paycheck, but at least we are no longer running up the CC.

About the debit card and safety, I did have a problem with my DC twice, and both times it was taken care of just like a credit card. All I had to do was file a form. One was a charge for $55 that showed up from a store I hadn't been to in months, and another was a duplicate charge from TJMaxx (see, I'm getting better, going to TJMaxx for my designer fix) ;) .

I can understand why some people cannot have a CC even though there are perks to paying them off every month. It can be very tempting and very hard for the financially un-savvy to comprehend and control. If I had one, all it would take was one bad day and it would be maxed! Actually, we have one that we use for the car rentals and stuff, but is STAYS HOME until we need it.

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 06:12 PM
hey - that is really great news because I love using my debit card...the money comes right out of my checking account - immediately. What does DR say about this in TMM? anything?

Just posted this above.

my3kids
08-23-2005, 06:17 PM
hey - that is really great news because I love using my debit card...the money comes right out of my checking account - immediately. What does DR say about this in TMM? anything?

DR, on his show, always says a VISA check card affords just the same protections as a credit card, although the credit issuers try to tell otherwise. The VISA check card has always offered the protections of the VISA credit card, although most were skeptical when it is all their available money at risk!! Can you imagine the nighmare of finding your checking account empty??? Holy Smokes! Anyway, yesr DR advocates debit cards and says they are 100% as safe as credit cards in terms of fraud protection and safety.

DMRick
08-23-2005, 06:20 PM
Bad day--it was a snark...I'm sorry!

It is important to note that it is possible to live without credit cards. A debit card can be used in the place of a cc in most cases.

Accepted..thanks.

Do debit cards give you the extended warrenty that cc give? Just curious. We just this week got my grands computer fixed (almost $200), have had a monitor replace for free, and got a new, free laptop to replace a broken one, courtesy of my credit cards extended warrenty. Also, I love the car rental insurance..much savings over paying straight out for rental car insurance. How do they work with stop payments? I think I pretty much use my cc as a debit card, except I get all the benefits.
It's all about if you can control your spending, and pay it off every month, don't you think?

dvcgirl
08-23-2005, 06:38 PM
You must be having fun with siggy's :)

My marathon trip is virtually free.

I am going to live now, so I can live like noone else later so that future trips will not be a problem :) We have actually never indebted ourselves for the luxury of a trip---however, it's all the other crap that got us into "trouble". Like some we are not in trouble now as we have ways out of a bad problem.

However--it has taken me a few years to get over keeping up with the joneses...and this book was just the final wake up call to realize--that keeping up really isn't that important. I never really tried to keep up--but have felt jealous of others for years.....and finally that jealousy has all melted away :).

DR talks about sacrificing now so you won't have to sacrifice later and eat Alpo--which sadly will happen to a lot of people.


Never judge a person's financial state by what their siggy says.

I'm not judging you. Really, it's none of my business what people do with their money. I read the budget board because there are usually some good saving tips/codes and I find the overall topic of investing interesting. Everyone has to live their own lives. And as I've said in earlier posts, we've been very fortunate, I wouldn't call it "lucky" because our education and hard work put us in the the right place at the right times. Living beneath our means is a big part of our success.

But yes, I am a human being and so I often wonder how people come on these boards and ask complete strangers if they should go on this trip or that trip....when they probably already know that they shouldn't be going.

And so I think it's a good thing that some of us talk about how we live, and how we save, so that others can see that they really do need to be thinking ahead and not just living in the moment. Does this mean that people should never go on vacation? Of course not. I'm not saying that. But personally, I know that we could never take vacations when we haven't meant our personal savings goals. And we meet those goals easily. Remember, we have no kids and no debt, so it's not hard for us at this point. I understand that it's much more difficult with kids and I commend anyone who stays home with their kids.

But I do think that there's been a huge change in the spending habits of our nation over the past 25 years. It's easy for everyone to think..."hey if *they* can go to WDW, we sure can...we make more than they do..." it's just the way things are now.

It sounds like you are well on your way to enjoying financial freedom....and I wish you all the best.

Muushka
08-23-2005, 06:39 PM
Any Clark Howard fans out there? Doesn't he hate debit/fake credit cards?
I believe they do not offer the same protection as a credit card. Like ordering furniture with a credit card and then have problems with the furniture (delivered wrong/inferior furniture). With a credit card they just stop payment, with a debit card you are not offered that protection.
Or I may be all wet...... :confused3 carry on.......

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 06:53 PM
Accepted..thanks.

Do debit cards give you the extended warrenty that cc give? Just curious. We just this week got my grands computer fixed (almost $200), have had a monitor replace for free, and got a new, free laptop to replace a broken one, courtesy of my credit cards extended warrenty.
--------------------

You have the worst luck when you purchase big items, don't you? Was that the computer you bought just last Christmas? Tell me what brand it is - so I never buy one.. LOL

Can't answer your question about extended warranties because knock on wood, I've never purchased a large item that konked out in a short time.. I did buy a monitor for $29.00 once that konked out in a year, but by that time I figured I had pretty much gotten my money's worth.. :flower:

luckofthedraw
08-23-2005, 06:57 PM
I've been meaning to read this thread for a few days, and have just now gotten a chance to get through the entire thing. Having heard Dave on the radio a few times, I never dreamed he had such a following.

Dave Ramsey's website is somewhat of a disappointment to me, as it is almost exclusively affiliate links and a sales pitch for his higher-end services. How about some meat and bones in there somewhere? Guess I'll have to get his books from the library.

But here's my background and take on his ideas. First off, I've gotten a fine hard-knocks education, but now the debt I currently have is our mortgage, which I am working diligently to get paid off ASAP.

I am a SAHM who makes a living helping people who are in a serious financial crisis. If you are losing your home to foreclosure, I am the person you call to help you save it. I work with mortgage company's to find a solution, if one is possible. So I hear a lot of bad-luck stories every day. Most of the people could have done this themselves if 1) they had done something sooner, and 2) they had some sort of cushion or 3) they had seriously pared back expenses when the crisis occured. Most people are hoping and praying that something or someone will save them, when in fact, all of the power resides within themselves.

One of the first things I do, in order to help save a family's home is to set up a cash flow statement, showing positive or negative cash flow. If it is negative, we discuss ways to make the cash flow positive. I am always amazed at the things people will NOT cut out of their spending in order to save their house. Yes, some of it is hard, but really, does a person about to lose their home need $129's worth of cable per month?? I'll probably get flamed here, but do you REALLY need a huge vacation every year?

There are an amazing number of ways you can cut the fat out of most budgets. You just have to be determined to do it. If you are not ready to hear the message, it will fall on deaf ears. And I see that happening on some of these posts.

But, I digress....

I'm not sure if Dave mentions this or not, but you HAVE to know your financial number. If you do not know how much you need to live an enjoyable and comfortable life, you are walking around completely in the dark. And most people here seem to have no clue.

Does Dave have an automated program that automatically calculates, optimizes, and pays your debts? That's an important step. Put it on auto-pilot just like your retirement plans. Then you won't be tempted to cut corners this month or the next.

And about debt, I heard a statement from a financial mentor that has really stuck in my head: "When debt becomes an investment, wealth is created". Guess what that means? Your HOME is not an investment. It is a debt/liability until you resell it because it does not create cash flow to you.

Just some random thoughts to ponder. Try not to flame the new girl.

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 07:01 PM
Accepted..thanks.

Do debit cards give you the extended warrenty that cc give? Just curious. We just this week got my grands computer fixed (almost $200), have had a monitor replace for free, and got a new, free laptop to replace a broken one, courtesy of my credit cards extended warrenty. Also, I love the car rental insurance..much savings over paying straight out for rental car insurance. How do they work with stop payments? I think I pretty much use my cc as a debit card, except I get all the benefits.
It's all about if you can control your spending, and pay it off every month, don't you think?

I can't control my spending--rendering it impossible to pay it of monthly.

As far as the extended warranties--it is a paid service, it is not free with any of our credit cards.

I'm not sure what you mean about stop payments.

Muushka
08-23-2005, 07:04 PM
LuckoftheDraw; No flames from me. You speak my lingo!

I am always amazed at people I know who complain that they cannot afford to buy a house (around here it is not that bad). Yet they have 3 or 4 cell phone bills a month, 2 car payments, cable, DSL, home phone...I have to stop, I'm getting sick....

RichNKatHolly
08-23-2005, 07:06 PM
Wow, I cannot believe that people will not curb back their cable to save their house!! Unreal!

Thanks for all the great info. I don't think any of it is falling on deaf ears. Most of the people on this thread are either already financially stable or are ready to do what it takes to get there. It's a long road and some of you are far ahead of others. I may think the fact that I don't have debt but no savings puts me in the middle of the road, but others may not agree. Others may say, don't go to Disney (or anywhere for that matter) and get further up the road to financial freedom. Mind you, we do not go every year (only twice this year because the first one was gifted).

It is a great service you provide, and I'm sure in this day and age you are VERY busy!!! Sounds like great work for a SAHM. Were you an accountant before staying home? I've seen some threads about work for SAHMs. I too am a SAHM but also work when DH is home.

I've been meaning to read this thread for a few days, and have just now gotten a chance to get through the entire thing. Having heard Dave on the radio a few times, I never dreamed he had such a following.

Dave Ramsey's website is somewhat of a disappointment to me, as it is almost exclusively affiliate links and a sales pitch for his higher-end services. How about some meat and bones in there somewhere? Guess I'll have to get his books from the library.

But here's my background and take on his ideas. First off, I've gotten a fine hard-knocks education, but now the debt I currently have is our mortgage, which I am working diligently to get paid off ASAP.

I am a SAHM who makes a living helping people who are in a serious financial crisis. If you are losing your home to foreclosure, I am the person you call to help you save it. I work with mortgage company's to find a solution, if one is possible. So I hear a lot of bad-luck stories every day. Most of the people could have done this themselves if 1) they had done something sooner, and 2) they had some sort of cushion or 3) they had seriously pared back expenses when the crisis occured. Most people are hoping and praying that something or someone will save them, when in fact, all of the power resides within themselves.

One of the first things I do, in order to help save a family's home is to set up a cash flow statement, showing positive or negative cash flow. If it is negative, we discuss ways to make the cash flow positive. I am always amazed at the things people will NOT cut out of their spending in order to save their house. Yes, some of it is hard, but really, does a person about to lose their home need $129's worth of cable per month?? I'll probably get flamed here, but do you REALLY need a huge vacation every year?

There are an amazing number of ways you can cut the fat out of most budgets. You just have to be determined to do it. If you are not ready to hear the message, it will fall on deaf ears. And I see that happening on some of these posts.

But, I digress....

I'm not sure if Dave mentions this or not, but you HAVE to know your financial number. If you do not know how much you need to live an enjoyable and comfortable life, you are walking around completely in the dark. And most people here seem to have no clue.

Does Dave have an automated program that automatically calculates, optimizes, and pays your debts? That's an important step. Put it on auto-pilot just like your retirement plans. Then you won't be tempted to cut corners this month or the next.

And about debt, I heard a statement from a financial mentor that has really stuck in my head: "When debt becomes an investment, wealth is created". Guess what that means? Your HOME is not an investment. It is a debt/liability until you resell it because it does not create cash flow to you.

Just some random thoughts to ponder. Try not to flame the new girl.

RichNKatHolly
08-23-2005, 07:10 PM
I can't control my spending--rendering it impossible to pay it of monthly.

As far as the extended warranties--it is a paid service, it is not free with any of our credit cards.

I'm not sure what you mean about stop payments.

I can do stop payments with my debit. It works like with any other credit card. The bank fights whatever battle it is you have for free. Sometimes you get the disputed amount back into your account immediately and sometimes you wait until the dispute is settled.

I hope this is what you meant. :)

Lisa loves Pooh
08-23-2005, 07:16 PM
I can do stop payments with my debit. It works like with any other credit card. The bank fights whatever battle it is you have for free. Sometimes you get the disputed amount back into your account immediately and sometimes you wait until the dispute is settled.

I hope this is what you meant. :)

I don't know--someone mentioned they could do it with a cc and not a debit.

So what you say--means that debit is getting more and more like a cc everyday.

I know I get rebates when I use mine as well. :)

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 07:19 PM
I am a SAHM who makes a living helping people who are in a serious financial crisis. If you are losing your home to foreclosure, I am the person you call to help you save it. I work with mortgage company's to find a solution, if one is possible. So I hear a lot of bad-luck stories every day. Most of the people could have done this themselves if 1) they had done something sooner, and 2) they had some sort of cushion or 3) they had seriously pared back expenses when the crisis occured. Most people are hoping and praying that something or someone will save them, when in fact, all of the power resides within themselves.

One of the first things I do, in order to help save a family's home is to set up a cash flow statement, showing positive or negative cash flow. If it is negative, we discuss ways to make the cash flow positive. I am always amazed at the things people will NOT cut out of their spending in order to save their house. Yes, some of it is hard, but really, does a person about to lose their home need $129's worth of cable per month?? I'll probably get flamed here, but do you REALLY need a huge vacation every year?

There are an amazing number of ways you can cut the fat out of most budgets. You just have to be determined to do it. If you are not ready to hear the message, it will fall on deaf ears. And I see that happening on some of these posts.

But, I digress....

I'm not sure if Dave mentions this or not, but you HAVE to know your financial number. If you do not know how much you need to live an enjoyable and comfortable life, you are walking around completely in the dark. And most people here seem to have no clue.

Does Dave have an automated program that automatically calculates, optimizes, and pays your debts? That's an important step. Put it on auto-pilot just like your retirement plans. Then you won't be tempted to cut corners this month or the next.

And about debt, I heard a statement from a financial mentor that has really stuck in my head: "When debt becomes an investment, wealth is created". Guess what that means? Your HOME is not an investment. It is a debt/liability until you resell it because it does not create cash flow to you.

Just some random thoughts to ponder. Try not to flame the new girl.
----------------------------------

Some very valid points - however, some people (like the couple I purchased the book for) need more of an "in-your-face" reality check to get them jump-started.. Others may need the feeling of "being part of a group of others who are doing the same.." Some just honestly don't know what they're doing wrong.. Some really want to succeed and will.. Others don't - and will fail.. Every person has their own individual style - their own "bottom line" - their own assessment of what can and will work for them.. But in order to do anything at all - to even "think" about doing anything - there has to be a "starting" point.. It can be a book - a newspaper article - a tv show - a radio talk show - advice from a parent or a friend - and on and on.. If reading this book (or any other one, for that matter) "sparks" something in them, that's great - if not, no one has ever LOST knowledge simply by reading a book.. There's a whole world of knowledge out there, but often times people are in such a desperate state of mind they simply don't know where to look.. And - as has been demonstrated on this thread - knowledge breeds knowledge - so why not share? :flower:

Take what works for you and throw the rest out - but for heavens sake, do SOMETHING..

luckofthedraw
08-23-2005, 07:22 PM
Were you an accountant before staying home?

LOL, no I've never been an accountant. In fact I hated accounting in school. Might explain learning via the school of hard knocks. :teeth:

No, I have a mentor who used to be an accountant. He's been well-blessed using some of these exact theories, and even though I am still taking baby steps, I am getting there.

dvcgirl
08-23-2005, 07:44 PM
I've been meaning to read this thread for a few days, and have just now gotten a chance to get through the entire thing. Having heard Dave on the radio a few times, I never dreamed he had such a following.

Dave Ramsey's website is somewhat of a disappointment to me, as it is almost exclusively affiliate links and a sales pitch for his higher-end services. How about some meat and bones in there somewhere? Guess I'll have to get his books from the library.

But here's my background and take on his ideas. First off, I've gotten a fine hard-knocks education, but now the debt I currently have is our mortgage, which I am working diligently to get paid off ASAP.

I am a SAHM who makes a living helping people who are in a serious financial crisis. If you are losing your home to foreclosure, I am the person you call to help you save it. I work with mortgage company's to find a solution, if one is possible. So I hear a lot of bad-luck stories every day. Most of the people could have done this themselves if 1) they had done something sooner, and 2) they had some sort of cushion or 3) they had seriously pared back expenses when the crisis occured. Most people are hoping and praying that something or someone will save them, when in fact, all of the power resides within themselves.

One of the first things I do, in order to help save a family's home is to set up a cash flow statement, showing positive or negative cash flow. If it is negative, we discuss ways to make the cash flow positive. I am always amazed at the things people will NOT cut out of their spending in order to save their house. Yes, some of it is hard, but really, does a person about to lose their home need $129's worth of cable per month?? I'll probably get flamed here, but do you REALLY need a huge vacation every year?

There are an amazing number of ways you can cut the fat out of most budgets. You just have to be determined to do it. If you are not ready to hear the message, it will fall on deaf ears. And I see that happening on some of these posts.

But, I digress....

I'm not sure if Dave mentions this or not, but you HAVE to know your financial number. If you do not know how much you need to live an enjoyable and comfortable life, you are walking around completely in the dark. And most people here seem to have no clue.

Does Dave have an automated program that automatically calculates, optimizes, and pays your debts? That's an important step. Put it on auto-pilot just like your retirement plans. Then you won't be tempted to cut corners this month or the next.

And about debt, I heard a statement from a financial mentor that has really stuck in my head: "When debt becomes an investment, wealth is created". Guess what that means? Your HOME is not an investment. It is a debt/liability until you resell it because it does not create cash flow to you.

Just some random thoughts to ponder. Try not to flame the new girl.

Well, I agree with everything you say. And you're right about the home being a liability. We own our home outright, no mortgage at all, and yet I have property taxes and utility bills and maintenance fees....so it sure costs me to live here. But there are lots of people in our country right now who are feeling quite wealthy because their home is worth oh so much money. It means very little.

People do not want to part with the yearly vacations and the leased cars and emeril-like kitchens. Because...*everyone* else has them...so why shouldn't they.

ziggystardust
08-23-2005, 08:07 PM
Wow, I go out to dinner and this thread jumped 3 pages. I guess a lot of us are in the same boat.

I really want to get this book now. Like C.Ann said, even if it doesn't work for me, I'm no worse off b/c I read a book.

RichNKatHolly
08-23-2005, 09:05 PM
LOL, no I've never been an accountant. In fact I hated accounting in school. Might explain learning via the school of hard knocks. :teeth:

No, I have a mentor who used to be an accountant. He's been well-blessed using some of these exact theories, and even though I am still taking baby steps, I am getting there.

Sorry, missed the "school of hard knocks" meaning - guess I should have stayed in college myself, but DS wouldn't have it ;)

I'm sure we will all get there one way or another. Just reading and posting on this thread shows we all have the "want" to do better! Good luck everyone!

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 09:09 PM
Like C.Ann said, even if it doesn't work for me, I'm no worse off b/c I read a book.
--------------

Absolutely! :flower:

Kay7979
08-23-2005, 09:19 PM
This is a great thread. I don't usually surf this board, but today I stopped by and discovered this thread, as well as the one about cutting back on eating out in order to save money. It was particularly interesting to read the agonies of the reforming shop-aholics. At the risk of sounding "preachy" I would like to offer some encouragement and food for thought to those who are making an effort to stop frittering their money away. Look around your home. Look at the furniture, household items, clothes, gadgets, and all the "stuff" you own. Think about how much all that "stuff" cost. Now, think about how much it is all worth if you needed to sell it, for whatever reason, next week. For the most part, even the nicest items you own would probably bring half what you paid for them, even if you bought them recently. Most everything else would bring a quarter, or a tenth, of what you paid.

To me, this realization takes the joy out of buying "stuff." What a waste of money! The more of your income you can put into assets that don't depreciate, and hopefully increase in value, the more you are building wealth. I am not saying that people should not buy furniture or clothes, or household items, but think twice about whether the item is something you really want or need badly enough to justify owning something that will immediately be worth a fraction of its price new.

Part of this perspective comes from the fact that DH deals in antiques and collectibles. Generally, antiques hold their value or increase. Used modern furniture and household items typically sell for pennies on the dollar. We just helped our in-laws, who lost their home in a fire, replace some of their belongings. Of course the insurance company (and mortgage lenders) consider the value of your belongings at the cost to buy everything new. My in-laws were stunned when DH started quoting the replacement prices for used items, similar to the ones lost in the fire. They couldn't believe things could be replaced so cheaply once they were "used" a bit. We took them to a local household auction. They bought a nearly new couch and chair and paid $430. We saw the same exact furniture last night at Bon-Ton at about 40% off and it still cost over $1,000 on sale. They bought a nice bedroom set for $375 that would certainly have cost at least $2000 in a furniture store. Decent dishes and general household items can often be purchased as "box lots" for a few dollars.

Most of what we own has come from eBay, auctions, estate sales, etc. and it is generally far better quality than we would feel we could afford if we had to buy the equivalent items new.

I realize most people don't have time to go to auctions, and some people don't like antiques, or are uncomfortable with buying via eBay. The point is, it is helpful to be aware that your purchases are not adding to your net worth, and in fact, are diverting money away from true wealth. Next time you are tempted with that $180 lamp, remember that a year from now it will probably bring $40.00 at auction, and the lamp may not seem so appealing after all.

DMRick
08-23-2005, 09:28 PM
As far as the extended warranties--it is a paid service, it is not free with any of our credit cards.

I'm not sure what you mean about stop payments.

Are you sure you have to pay for it? It is free on every gold and platinum cc I have. Citibank, At & T..all of them. They have replaced the parts on my grands computer, my 19" Sony montor, a laptop computer (to the tune of $2,000) and even gifts I buy..such as my daughters camera. There is paperwork involved, but very worth it. This even comes into play, if I drop it when carrying it in the house or someone steals it from my car before I get it home (I haven't had to use that yet). All this is in addition to all the free rebates I get. I love the 5% check back on the citibank card!

By stop payments (although someone answered that farther down), if I order something and don't get it, or it's broken when I get it, I can ask my credit card to stop payment (at no cost, unlike when they stop payment on a check). They do check into it, and make sure the person who sent the item can't prove they did). I didn't realize a debit card did that..I thought you had to pay, to stop payment, like you do when you use a check.

C.Ann
08-23-2005, 09:29 PM
This is a great thread. I don't usually surf this board, but today I stopped by and discovered this thread, as well as the one about cutting back on eating out in order to save money. It was particularly interesting to read the agonies of the reforming shop-aholics. At the risk of sounding "preachy" I would like to offer some encouragement and food for thought to those who are making an effort to stop frittering their money away. Look around your home. Look at the furniture, household items, clothes, gadgets, and all the "stuff" you own. Think about how much all that "stuff" cost. Now, think about how much it is all worth if you needed to sell it, for whatever reason, next week. For the most part, even the nicest items you own would probably bring half what you paid for them, even if you bought them recently. Most everything else would bring a quarter, or a tenth, of what you paid.

To me, this realization takes the joy out of buying "stuff." What a waste of money! The more of your income you can put into assets that don't depreciate, and hopefully increase in value, the more you are building wealth. I am not saying that people should not buy furniture or clothes, or household items, but think twice about whether the item is something you really want or need badly enough to justify owning something that will immediately be worth a fraction of its price new.

Part of this perspective comes from the fact that DH deals in antiques and collectibles. Generally, antiques hold their value or increase. Used modern furniture and household items typically sell for pennies on the dollar. We just helped our in-laws, who lost their home in a fire, replace some of their belongings. Of course the insurance company (and mortgage lenders) consider the value of your belongings at the cost to buy everything new. My in-laws were stunned when DH started quoting the replacement prices for used items, similar to the ones lost in the fire. They couldn't believe things could be replaced so cheaply once they were "used" a bit. We took them to a local household auction. They bought a nearly new couch and chair and paid $430. We saw the same exact furniture last night at Bon-Ton at about 40% off and it still cost over $1,000 on sale. They bought a nice bedroom set for $375 that would certainly have cost at least $2000 in a furniture store. Decent dishes and general household items can often be purchased as "box lots" for a few dollars.

Most of what we own has come from eBay, auctions, estate sales, etc. and it is generally far better quality than we would feel we could afford if we had to buy the equivalent items new.

I realize most people don't have time to go to auctions, and some people don't like antiques, or are uncomfortable with buying via eBay. The point is, it is helpful to be aware that your purchases are not adding to your net worth, and in fact, are diverting money away from true wealth. Next time you are tempted with that $180 lamp, remember that a year from now it will probably bring $40.00 at auction, and the lamp may not seem so appealing after all.
-------------------------

You sound like my kind of people! :flower: I much prefer buying used items when they're available..

Lucky4me
08-23-2005, 10:13 PM
I think I will read this book although we're probably already doing most of what he says. We're living well below our means, saving 20% of our total income towards retirement, have no debt and don't feel we're missing out on anything. I laugh at the people who laugh at my 10 yo car. Every month goes by that I don't have a payment, I get richer. It gets me from point A to point B so how can that be a bad thing? :)

I love Suze Ormons stuff too. She gets into the emotional aspects of money and is right on most of the time. She can be a bit hard to watch, but she gives sound advice.

LoriMistress
08-23-2005, 10:59 PM
The other interesting factor with buying new cars is that a new car loses 60% of it's value in the first four years of its life. Isn't that incredible? It's the largest purchase Americans make besides their home and it starts to lose money the second you pull out of the dealership lot. He also advocates cutting out the middle man when buying a used car...the dreaded used car dealer....and buy from an individual who isn't likely to stick you with a huge mark-up.

And speaking of debt, I heard a statistic on the radio (Clark Howard show) the other day about car loans. The average length of a car loan in this country right now is 63 months. That means that there are more and more people are taking out 72 month and 84 month loans. Like Howard says, "people, if you need to pay 72 or 84 months for a car....you can't afford it!!" Also, 1/3 of people who are trading in cars for a new one are "upside down" in their loans, meaning that they owe more on the car than the car is worth. And, also, he said that leasing is back up to 20% in this country.

I knew about the value of cars (since I use to work in the finance department.) At the finance co. I use to work with the longest loan we did was for 48 months. I can't believe that the average loan for a car is 63 months. My car loan is only 36 months and by January the car will be completely paid off.

wdwpluto
08-24-2005, 07:12 AM
"Rags to Retirement" by Gail Liberman and Alan Lavine


Thanks, C.Ann! I'm going to see if I can get it from my library :)

RichNKatHolly
08-24-2005, 07:24 AM
-------------------------

You sound like my kind of people! :flower: I much prefer buying used items when they're available..

Glad to say that we've purchased a ton of second hand stuff in the past year and it has been great. Of course, the second hand stores here are not terrific, but we drive to a certain part of NJ and really clean up. I can still get my nice stuff for the kids, but at a fraction of the price. And in NJ, no tax on clothes! :banana:

I used to like ebay too, for designer items, but I have been leary lately of purchasing in light of the new (and the same old ) scams.

Lisa loves Pooh
08-24-2005, 08:47 AM
Well my decorating sense stinks--otherwise I'd love to decorate my home with odds and ends that magically coordinate. But alas--I stink at it.

After 7 years of free couches--we finally invested in new and I LOVE them! Of course--it took us 7 years to come to a consensus...and still 2 hours to decide on a set that we mutually agreed on that was comfortable yet stylish.

RichNKatHolly
08-24-2005, 08:58 AM
Congrats Lisa Loves Pooh! I think I should say I would draw the line on upholstered furniture. Too much can sink into those cushions :eek: . I would buy new too. Our set is 7 years old, but still hanging on. When the kids are done making a mess of it we will buy another new set. Hopefully, on sale.

C.Ann
08-24-2005, 09:14 AM
Congrats Lisa Loves Pooh! I think I should say I would draw the line on upholstered furniture. Too much can sink into those cushions :eek: . I would buy new too. Our set is 7 years old, but still hanging on. When the kids are done making a mess of it we will buy another new set. Hopefully, on sale.
---------------------

First let me say that I understand your reluctance to purchase used upholstered furniture as it really isn't everyones cup of tea - but it reminded me of something funny that happened a few weeks ago.. Friends of my DD & her DH were thinking of buying a travel trailer.. My SIL suggested they look at used ones because often times you can get a travel trailer that is only 1 year old for a remarkably low price.. The friends were horrified!! Sleep on a bed that someone else had slept on? NEVER!!! They insisted that nothing but "brand new" would be acceptable to them - until my DD reminded them that every time they sleep in a hotel they're sleeping on a bed that hundreds - if not thousands - of other people have slept on.. LOL :flower:

ziggystardust
08-24-2005, 10:07 AM
---------------------

First let me say that I understand your reluctance to purchase used upholstered furniture as it really isn't everyones cup of tea - but it reminded me of something funny that happened a few weeks ago.. Friends of my DD & her DH were thinking of buying a travel trailer.. My SIL suggested they look at used ones because often times you can get a travel trailer that is only 1 year old for a remarkably low price.. The friends were horrified!! Sleep on a bed that someone else had slept on? NEVER!!! They insisted that nothing but "brand new" would be acceptable to them - until my DD reminded them that every time they sleep in a hotel they're sleeping on a bed that hundreds - if not thousands - of other people have slept on.. LOL :flower:

With something like that, I would imagine (don't know b/c I've never been in the market for a travel trailer) that at that point, buying used would save a lot, and you go out and buy a new mattress for like $200. That would make more sense to me.

miss missy
08-24-2005, 10:35 AM
anyone wanting to hear Dave Ramsey on the radio, here is the link, enjoy

http://www.daveramsey.com/radio/home/index.cfm?FuseAction=dspContent&strMode=dspShowArchives

C.Ann
08-24-2005, 10:47 AM
With something like that, I would imagine (don't know b/c I've never been in the market for a travel trailer) that at that point, buying used would save a lot, and you go out and buy a new mattress for like $200. That would make more sense to me.
-------------

Bingo! That would make "sense" but we're not talking about a "sensible" couple here.. Ever hear of someone trading in their vehicle when the carpet gets a speck of dirt on it - or the white wording on the tires looks a bit faded? "Sensible" is not in their vocabulary..

Disneefun
08-24-2005, 10:48 AM
With something like that, I would imagine (don't know b/c I've never been in the market for a travel trailer) that at that point, buying used would save a lot, and you go out and buy a new mattress for like $200. That would make more sense to me.

FWIW, and this is getting OT so forgive me but... We recently bought a new (to us, used to everyone else) motorhome and learned that used saves a ton because not only is the price substantially less, but someone else has already eaten the depriciation. And many dealers that we talked to were willing to throw in a new mattress and thoroughly clean the upholstery to close the deal. They are aware of the "ick" factor and are willing to help minimize that. :flower:

DMRick
08-24-2005, 01:22 PM
Keep in mind when buying a new motor home, just like a car, you aren't buying someone elses problems. Also if buying a used motor home or Travel trailer, miles are really important. It may have low miles, but they may have parked it and lived in it for a year, which is a several year's worth of use in a motor home (they generally have low miles compared to a car..if not, you want to know that too). My suggestion if buying used, is to head for Florida, where one spouse may have died and the other spouse is selling, and it would prob have minimal wear. We bought our first brand new travel trailer in 2000 (we had three used ones in the past..each one with someone else's problems..hidden leaks (even though we thought we really looked good..if they put in a new panel, it's hard to tell), hole in black tank, a floor in the bathroom, that had been wet, but they covered it with tile, etc. We had to take that down to the outside to fix it.
I was surprised that with shopping around (we faxed everything we wanted to several dealers within the distance we were willing to travel), we got our new one for 75% of the msrp. A used one (one year old) was only $850 less, and a "new" leftover, was only $200 less because it was originally more to start with. This is a Holiday Rambler, which we ordered, so we could get everything we wanted on it. We also looked at many private slightly used RV's. I loved the one where they said they only had it out once, but forgot to mention on the phone, that they and their 4 kids lived in it for the year it took them to build thier house. While we could have replaced the mattress, I'm afraid the wood underneath would also have to be replaced to get rid of the smell of urine. Carpeting would have also had to be replaced..apparently they were not neat eaters.
So, while I was happy with our used RV's, since we keep our stuff a long time, I am so much happier with new (and when the tree fell on it, it was very easy to get the insurance company to fix it totally LOL). If the price is really good (Motor homes and RV's in good shape don't depreciate anywhere near like a car does..check out the blue book, our RV has a higher blue book price than we we got the original 25% off..5 years later) and you are happy with it, then it may be worth it...but you really have to do your homework on this. Some people will pay a lot more than they have to for a new one, making a used one seem like a good deal.

Of course, the people who would get a new car because of a speck on the carpeting..I guess they have money to burn LOL. That's just plain silly.

C.Ann
08-24-2005, 01:49 PM
Of course, the people who would get a new car because of a speck on the carpeting..I guess they have money to burn LOL. That's just plain silly.
----------------------------

They don't "do" used at all - period.. Nor do they shop around.. They'll just go to a dealer and pay whatever the sticker says (ditto for their cars).. Keep in mind this is the same couple that just a week or so ago was so "generous" as to offer to pay "half" the cost involved in expanding my extra lot so they could park this "brand new" travel trailer there year-round.. Of course they also wanted to hook into my septic system and hook into my electricity (for free of course)... Always nice to have a "dream" - huh? :teeth: Just this past weekend they came up to visit my DD & her DH for the weekend (stayed with them) and by Sunday morning DD & her DH were so fed up with their nonsense they basically told them to go home.. LOL

My sister bought a brand new travel trailer the last time around because she had plans of living in it (no more house) for at least 6 months out of the year.. That's all changed now - she used it for one season and it's up for sale..

The most recent travel trailer my DD & DH purchased took forever for them to find.. They did a nationwide search and couldn't find one new (with a reasonable price) or used.. There were certain specifications that my SIL wanted (a lot of customized stuff) and it was like trying to find a needle in a haystack.. When he was just about ready to give up and buy something else he got lucky and found the brand new model he was looking for with all of the customized extras.. I don't know if he was happier over getting exactly what he wanted or happier that he got it for such a steal.. LOL.. The only way I forsee them going shopping for a different travel trailer anytime soon now is if THEY expand the lot to make more room for a 37ft.+.. I'm thinking they'll probably just wait for me to kick the bucket, knock down this place and build some big beautiful vacation home.. :rotfl:

RichNKatHolly
08-24-2005, 07:44 PM
---------------------

First let me say that I understand your reluctance to purchase used upholstered furniture as it really isn't everyones cup of tea - but it reminded me of something funny that happened a few weeks ago.. Friends of my DD & her DH were thinking of buying a travel trailer.. My SIL suggested they look at used ones because often times you can get a travel trailer that is only 1 year old for a remarkably low price.. The friends were horrified!! Sleep on a bed that someone else had slept on? NEVER!!! They insisted that nothing but "brand new" would be acceptable to them - until my DD reminded them that every time they sleep in a hotel they're sleeping on a bed that hundreds - if not thousands - of other people have slept on.. LOL :flower:


LOL - I can say I am not like that. I would definately buy a used trailer. I just happen to have had some experience with used furniture that was NASTY!!!

Now I will buy almost anything used to save some $$. I get such a high off getting a great deal!!

C.Ann
08-24-2005, 07:47 PM
My stepdaughter and her DH got "the book" today and she actually called me in tears tonight.. They had both reached the point where they felt bankruptcy was the only option but now they feel as though they at least have some sort of "plan" to try to rectify the situation before they're forced into that final step.. I think they'll give it their best shot, but whether it will work for them or not remains to be seen.. Some of their habits definitely need to change, but in all fairness, some of the problems were unavoidable.. (The DH donated one of his kidneys to his son and it involved a great deal of travel.. After the donation surgery there were complications; unpaid time off from work for both of them; etc. Then the new kidney for the son failed, his medical insurance tapped out and they were doing what they could for him, at their expense..)

I don't know if it will work for them or not, but I do know that some kind of plan is better than no plan at all! Hold a good thought for them, if you're so inclined..

dvcgirl
08-24-2005, 07:52 PM
My stepdaughter and her DH got "the book" today and she actually called me in tears tonight.. They had both reached the point where they felt bankruptcy was the only option but now they feel as though they at least have some sort of "plan" to try to rectify the situation before they're forced into that final step.. I think they'll give it their best shot, but whether it will work for them or not remains to be seen.. Some of their habits definitely need to change, but in all fairness, some of the problems were unavoidable.. (The DH donated one of his kidneys to his son and it involved a great deal of travel.. After the donation surgery there were complications; unpaid time off from work for both of them; etc. Then the new kidney for the son failed, his medical insurance tapped out and they were doing what they could for him, at their expense..)

I don't know if it will work for them or not, but I do know that some kind of plan is better than no plan at all! Hold a good thought for them, if you're so inclined..

I wish them all the best. And yes, sometimes major financial problems are not the fault of those experiencing them. A lot of bankrupties are tied to medical problems and the debt that can go along with them. But it's never too late to try, and with the new bankruptcy laws that take effect in October (I think...it's October) it's in their best interest to try and pull themselves out. Filing for bankrupty is not going to be nearly as easy as it used to be and even when you do file, it's going to be necessary to pay back lots of the debt. So, no more "get out of jail free" card. I'm glad that you bought them the book and hopefully they'll get on the right track.

RichNKatHolly
08-24-2005, 07:55 PM
Thinking good thoughts for them as well! Keep us posted!

Free4Life11
08-24-2005, 08:14 PM
If you have debt, how do you balance paying off the debt, but also having a little fun in life? Is it wrong to go on a vacation if you are carrying a balance on your credit cards? I do have a lot of debt but there are times when I just need a break from life!

Muushka
08-24-2005, 08:19 PM
If you have debt, how do you balance paying off the debt, but also having a little fun in life? Is it wrong to go on a vacation if you are carrying a balance on your credit cards? I do have a lot of debt but there are times when I just need a break from life!

You are a very brave poster! I will just sit back and listen......... :wave:

C.Ann
08-24-2005, 08:32 PM
If you have debt, how do you balance paying off the debt, but also having a little fun in life? Is it wrong to go on a vacation if you are carrying a balance on your credit cards? I do have a lot of debt but there are times when I just need a break from life!
---------------------------

I've never taken a vacation that I didn't have the cash to pay for, but in your circumstance, I suppose it would depend on a number of things..

What kind of a vacation are you talking about?
How long of a vacation?
How often a vacation?

I've never had credit card debt, but over the course of 30+ years I have done refunding, worked part-time and full-time jobs, worked more than 1 job at a time, held garage sales, crafted items and sold them at craft fairs, cut back in other areas to stick more in the vacation fund, sold things on eBay, etc..

If I remember correctly (can't look it up because I've passed the book on to the couple it was intended for) there's a section in DR's plan for "blow" money, I believe.. Maybe you could save that for vacation while paying off the credit cards at the same time.. It probably wouldn't be a big Disney vacation, but it could be the "break from life" that you need.. Only you can determne what your priorities are..:flower:

ElizaB39
08-24-2005, 08:37 PM
You are a very brave poster! I will just sit back and listen......... :wave:

hee hee

dvcgirl
08-24-2005, 09:02 PM
If you have debt, how do you balance paying off the debt, but also having a little fun in life? Is it wrong to go on a vacation if you are carrying a balance on your credit cards? I do have a lot of debt but there are times when I just need a break from life!

It sounds like you need a plan. First of all, what kind of debt do you have? Is it student loan debt or a mortgage? That's not bad debt. But if you're carrying a lot of credit card debt, first of all you probably need to figure out how you got there...and come up with a strict budget to get yourself out.

As for the vacation, well, it's not wrong to go on a vacation if you're carrying debt...if you're paying cash for the vacation and have a plan to pay down the debt. Or if you have plans to pay off the credit card within a few months. Otherwise, aren't you just going to sink deeper into debt? How can a vacation even be relaxing and enjoyable when it will just put you in a deeper hole that you'll eventually have to dig yourself out of? I know people who have gotten themselves into deep financial troubles and it can be very depressing. And so why not take a vacation to make yourself feel better? Well, because in reality it will only make things worse. It's just a short term fix for a long term problem.

I can only tell you that there's a wonderful sense of peace and freedom with being debt-free. It's better than any trip to Walt Disney World or any other vacation can ever make you feel.

Kay7979
08-24-2005, 09:05 PM
I personally would not pay for a vacation on a credit card, but I would not go so far as to say I would never take a vacation unless I was debt free. People should get their finances under control, but there has to be a place for some discretionary spending, while reducing debt, IMO. It's sort of like going on a diet and telling yourself you will not eat any of your favorite foods for the next year or two. It's hard to stay on a diet that's too strict. You just have to find a reasonable balance between paying down debt and "having a life." With that said, a "budget vacation" rather than 10 days in WDW or Cancun might be appropriate.

C.Ann
08-24-2005, 10:53 PM
but there has to be a place for some discretionary spending, while reducing debt, IMO. It's sort of like going on a diet and telling yourself you will not eat any of your favorite foods for the next year or two. It's hard to stay on a diet that's too strict. You just have to find a reasonable balance between paying down debt and "having a life." With that said, a "budget vacation" rather than 10 days in WDW or Cancun might be appropriate.
----------------

Exactly.. I think this is where the "blow" money comes in.. I've never seen any budget plan (or pay down debt plan) that didn't allow for some sort of discretionary spending.. Such a plan usually fails because most people simply don't do well with total deprivation.. Discretionary spending can mean anything from taking a budget vacation to dinner out and a movie or a morning of garage sales.. It's totally up to the individuals and what works for them..

With some creative thinking, people are usually able to come up with some sort of vacation that fits their budget, yet doesn't interfere with their financial goals.. :flower:

Free4Life11
08-24-2005, 11:04 PM
Thanks for the replies. What I have been doing is setting aside 10% of each paycheck into my savings account. I'm not sure WHAT exactly I'm saving for, lol, but I just want to let it accumulate for a while and maybe go away for the weekend during value season, maybe after Christmas. I'm also trying to use 50% of each paycheck for bills and the remainder I split between tithe/charity and food/misc. things.

Nice thing is I work at a movie theater so I am able to see movies for free and get free popcorn and pop :)

Muushka
08-25-2005, 04:16 AM
What I have been doing is setting aside 10% of each paycheck into my savings account. I'm not sure WHAT exactly I'm saving for, lol, but I just want to let it accumulate for a while and maybe go away for the weekend during value season,

Not sure if everyone else would agree, but here goes. Unless you have an extremely low interest rate on those credit cards (like 2%), wouldn't it be wiser to pay down that debt rather than pay high interest on the CC?

We had a car loan a few years back. It carried a 5% interest rate. We had a savings account which earned 2% interest. It took me a full year to get my husband to pay that car off and get rid of a loan that cost 3% more interest a year (plus we paid income tax on the interest earned on the money in the bank).

You would probably come out ahead paying down that CC debt and when it came time to take a vacation, use the CC then.

Lisa loves Pooh
08-25-2005, 06:19 AM
LOL - I can say I am not like that. I would definately buy a used trailer. I just happen to have had some experience with used furniture that was NASTY!!!

Now I will buy almost anything used to save some $$. I get such a high off getting a great deal!!

Our used couches we had--were all freebies from people we knew...hubby grew up with the one couch. Now talk about nasties--my water broke on that couch. :teeth: . I was so concerned--at the hospital when my sister finally went back to my house--I asked her to clean it--there was NOTHING there. More ewwww!!!!

We did eventually replace the cushions (not b/c of that)---but you do never know what happens on couches!

The couches have now made their way to my bil's new apartment. They will never die. It is an old style sectional that is about 25yo by now.

Lisa loves Pooh
08-25-2005, 06:23 AM
Not sure if everyone else would agree, but here goes. Unless you have an extremely low interest rate on those credit cards (like 2%), wouldn't it be wiser to pay down that debt rather than pay high interest on the CC?

We had a car loan a few years back. It carried a 5% interest rate. We had a savings account which earned 2% interest. It took me a full year to get my husband to pay that car off and get rid of a loan that cost 3% more interest a year (plus we paid income tax on the interest earned on the money in the bank).

You would probably come out ahead paying down that CC debt and when it came time to take a vacation, use the CC then.


According to DR--the steps are a $1000 emergency account, snowball debt (credit cards and such), and then long term savings.....

So savings should have no more than $1000 for emergencies (Car repair, home repair--not indulgences--but needs)....and then after that the money is better applied towards debt.

YOu can also have blow money in the budget that can be blown however the budgeter seems fit. It can be $20 a month--it can be $100--but depending on your goals for getting out of debt...the number should reflect being able to reach the goals you set out.

RichNKatHolly
08-25-2005, 07:25 AM
Now talk about nasties--my water broke on that couch. :teeth: . I was so concerned--at the hospital when my sister finally went back to my house--I asked her to clean it--there was NOTHING there. More ewwww!!!!



OK, you win :rotfl2:

Enjoy your new couches!!!

arminnie
08-25-2005, 01:20 PM
---------------------------

There was an article in the newspaper just the other day.. A debit card with the Visa logo on it now affords exactly the same protection.. Debit cards are becoming very popular as people begin to shy away from credit card debt.. :flower:

I worked for Visa International (parent company of ALL Visa cards worldwide) for many, many years. At one time I was the Debit Business Manager.

U.S. law does not provide the same protections for debit cards BUT Visa operating regulations (the "laws" that govern all Visa transactions) do provide the same protection. In other words the Visa Op Regs go above and beyond the U.S. legal requirements.

I can't speak for MasterCard, but I would bet they do the same thing.

Lisa loves Pooh
08-25-2005, 03:02 PM
OK, you win :rotfl2:

Enjoy your new couches!!!


Wanna buy a sofa?
:teeth:

HenDuck
08-25-2005, 03:14 PM
My friends always shake their heads when I tell them how much we/I put away towards retirement and my DS' college fund. They think I expect to be "rich" in my retirement.

But my rationale is this, I put away as much as I can NOW because you just never know what the future will bring. There may come a time when I won't be able to put away quite so much, if anything at all. Then all those years of saving for my, my DH and my DS' future will have "paid off".

Also, knowing that I have spent years putting away a substantial amount for our future will give me peace of mind if and when I have to cut back.

Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth... :wave2:

can'twait
08-25-2005, 03:20 PM
HenDuck:

The other thing to consider is that your invested $ grows for you. If you put $5 in the bank when your child is a baby, it could be worth $100 by the time he/she is ready for college. It's a whole lot easier to save $5 now than it will be to save $100 later. I really have no clue what the figures are, but you get my point. Multiply $5 by the thousands you will need for college. The sooner you start to invest, the more you will have when the time comes, even if your initial investment is low.

HenDuck
08-25-2005, 03:48 PM
HenDuck:

The other thing to consider is that your invested $ grows for you. If you put $5 in the bank when your child is a baby, it could be worth $100 by the time he/she is ready for college. It's a whole lot easier to save $5 now than it will be to save $100 later. I really have no clue what the figures are, but you get my point. Multiply $5 by the thousands you will need for college. The sooner you start to invest, the more you will have when the time comes, even if your initial investment is low.


Yep!

I kick myself for not saving MORE when I first started my career, but live and learn... :p

Free4Life11
08-25-2005, 06:57 PM
Not sure if everyone else would agree, but here goes. Unless you have an extremely low interest rate on those credit cards (like 2%), wouldn't it be wiser to pay down that debt rather than pay high interest on the CC?

We had a car loan a few years back. It carried a 5% interest rate. We had a savings account which earned 2% interest. It took me a full year to get my husband to pay that car off and get rid of a loan that cost 3% more interest a year (plus we paid income tax on the interest earned on the money in the bank).

You would probably come out ahead paying down that CC debt and when it came time to take a vacation, use the CC then.

I did that for a while, not saving any money, but it ended up just causing problems. Something unexpected would come up and I'd have to resort to using the CC. Paying off my CC's is a goal I have, but I'd also like to store up some money. As far as what I am saving for, I am saving for both a budget vacation, as well as a general emergency fund.

Question -- do they tax ALL interest income? Or do you have to make a
certain amount of interest for it to be taxes? I don't even think I
listed the interest I made last year on my taxes (less than $10.) Does
the IRS have a way of checking that? I'm noy saying I'd cheat them,
but I swear I read somewhere you only have to pay taxes on interest
income if it's above a certain amount (I think $250?). Seems ridiculous for the government to worry about collecting taxes on $20 bucks in interest...small potatoes if you ask me.

minnie1928
08-25-2005, 07:11 PM
Now talk about nasties--my water broke on that couch. :teeth: . I was so concerned--at the hospital when my sister finally went back to my house--I asked her to clean it--there was NOTHING there. More ewwww!!!!

I had to laugh when I saw this! I was on my 2 month old, new couch discussing with my husband that I thought the baby would be "late". Right then and there I felt this "pop" and the 1st thought that ran through my mind was "OMG, not on the new couch!". So I tightened every muscle in the lower half of my body and ran to the powder room.

I'm very happy to say that my couch survived unscathed! :rotfl2:

Muushka
08-25-2005, 07:38 PM
I did that for a while, not saving any money, but it ended up just causing problems. Something unexpected would come up and I'd have to resort to using the CC. Paying off my CC's is a goal I have, but I'd also like to store up some money. As far as what I am saving for, I am saving for both a budget vacation, as well as a general emergency fund.

Question -- do they tax ALL interest income? Or do you have to make a
certain amount of interest for it to be taxes? I don't even think I
listed the interest I made last year on my taxes (less than $10.) Does
the IRS have a way of checking that? I'm noy saying I'd cheat them,
but I swear I read somewhere you only have to pay taxes on interest
income if it's above a certain amount (I think $250?). Seems ridiculous for the government to worry about collecting taxes on $20 bucks in interest...small potatoes if you ask me.

I think you are safe at the less than $10 point.

You should receive Form 1099-INT for interest income and an Form 1099-OID for original issue discount from any paying institutions. You may receive a similar or substitute tax statement from each payer. Payers of interest of $10 or more are required to furnish you and the IRS with this tax information. This tax information is also usually included on your year-end account statement. Even if you do not receive a tax statement or Form 1099 you are still responsible for reporting all taxable interest income on your tax return. The IRS is notified of all interest paid by financial institutions on magnetic media. If you do not include your interest income on your tax return the IRS will know when their computer system matches your tax return to the tax information provided by payers. You will then be notified, usually by mail, of the amount of additional tax, interest, and penalties that you owe. from the website (http://www.wwwebtax.com/income/interest.htm)

Don't you just hate the IRS??? :earboy2:

arminnie
08-25-2005, 10:32 PM
I have a question about the Total Money Makeover. Does it have anything for people who are not in debt?

I don't have any debt and don't have any problems paying off my credit cards each month, but I am always up to find new ways to save money.

peacefulgirl
08-26-2005, 12:49 AM
I have a question about the Total Money Makeover. Does it have anything for people who are not in debt?

I don't have any debt and don't have any problems paying off my credit cards each month, but I am always up to find new ways to save money.

Yes... put it this way.... as Dave says ... most millionaires read 1 book a month.... read everything and anything you can!

There are a lot of books on his website that he suggests....

Free4Life11
08-26-2005, 03:22 AM
Don't you just hate the IRS??? :earboy2:

Yeah the IRS seems to have a way of "raining on the parade." It's a shame they never did make the change allowing people to deduct charitable giving without itemizing (I'm pretty sure they didn't pass it -- posted about it on the community board.)

etwinchester
08-26-2005, 09:26 AM
For those who read the book:

Would you check it out of the library or just purchase it?

Are there a lot things you find useful to highlight and go back to or just check it out and maybe make copies of some important fact?

RichNKatHolly
08-26-2005, 10:22 AM
I opted to purchase is since I will need to go back for reinforcement. I like to leave it on the counter so I don't "forget" what I should be doing. I may even take it to the mall with me when I have to go. I'm the kind of person who would read it once and be great for like a week, but then go back to my old ways. I guess you could get it from the library and if you think it would be good to own, then go purchase it.

Good luck. I haven't received mine yet but I'm hoping it will be the motivation I need!

Luv2trav
08-26-2005, 10:49 AM
I opted to purchase is since I will need to go back for reinforcement. I like to leave it on the counter so I don't "forget" what I should be doing. I may even take it to the mall with me when I have to go. I'm the kind of person who would read it once and be great for like a week, but then go back to my old ways. I guess you could get it from the library and if you think it would be good to own, then go purchase it.

Good luck. I haven't received mine yet but I'm hoping it will be the motivation I need!


I agree!! I need to read it re-read it and re-read over and over to keep myself motivated.

etwinchester
08-26-2005, 11:33 AM
Duh, NEVER MIND my previous post. I realized that this is the book I already have.

For some reason I didn't think that I bought this one...just one of those days!!!

ziggystardust
08-26-2005, 11:56 AM
I think I'm going to purchase it myself (I'll probably buy it at the bookstore rather than amazon so I don't use my CC- see I'm already getting better) b/c of the same reasons. I might even break out the highlighter!

peacefulgirl
08-26-2005, 04:48 PM
Like Dave says "I am wierd, I don't want to be Normal, because normal is BROKE!"

Anyone who knows me from my other post knows my financial mess. I can't say enough about what DR teaches. You may not agree 100%, but 99.9 you have to know he is on to something.

You guys should read "Financial Peace Revisted" from DR, TMMO is more about the plan, but FP is a good place to start, where he explain the life styles and mistakes most of us make.

DR's plan is not for the weak... he pushes for intense !!!

Go for it!!!!!!!!

I say again ... dont forget to read Financial Peace, Revistited is the updated version!

And you should read "The Millionaire Next Door",William D. Danko (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&rank=relevancerank&field-author-exact=William%20D.%20Danko/102-3150677-7547365), Thomas J. Stanley (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&rank=relevancerank&field-author-exact=Thomas%20J.%20Stanley/102-3150677-7547365) it talks about their habbits verse's the "norm" VERY INTERESTING!

dtauer
08-30-2005, 09:19 AM
OK, I just finished and I guess I'm a little confused. Based on what I've been reading in this thread, I guess I expected more about budgeting. No where does he discuss steps to take to decrease your monthly bills in order to save the initial $1000 or start the debt snowball. I guess I expected more discussion about getting rid of cable, or DSL or postponing vacations. It's seems to be all pretty high level theory stuff, or did I miss it?

Also, some of you are talking about the envelopes. I don't remember reading how to set up the envelopes except a little discussion about them in the very back of the book, or much about how to set up the budget worksheets.

Do I need the companion workbook, or his other book? Or is the information he gives in the very back of the book what everyone used to figure this stuff out?

SHAMIL10
08-30-2005, 03:56 PM
How long is it "supposed to take" to get through the baby steps? Like saving up 3- 6 months expenses?- are you setting a 5 year goal for this? That's the only thing that makes sense to me at this point, since I have already done 1 & will have #2 completed by next March, we've already cut out as much "FAT" as far as I can tell, but it will still be a while before we can save that much money

minnie1928
08-31-2005, 09:57 AM
How long is it "supposed to take" to get through the baby steps? Like saving up 3- 6 months expenses?- are you setting a 5 year goal for this? That's the only thing that makes sense to me at this point, since I have already done 1 & will have #2 completed by next March, we've already cut out as much "FAT" as far as I can tell, but it will still be a while before we can save that much money

It really depends on YOUR situation. At that point you've done #1 & #2, so all your expenses are your living expenses. Depending on what it costs to live vs. your monthly income it's hard to say what your timeline will be. Some people can live well below their means and will have more money left each month for babystep #3. Others may not be so lucky...

I think what Dave's point is to not lose your intensity just because you've completed steps #1 & #2. Those are great accomplishments! Now, just take the money you would have paid to creditors in step #2 and put them towards step #3.

Sorry my answer isn't better.... :rolleyes:

amyup
08-31-2005, 10:37 AM
How long is it "supposed to take" to get through the baby steps? Like saving up 3- 6 months expenses?- are you setting a 5 year goal for this? That's the only thing that makes sense to me at this point, since I have already done 1 & will have #2 completed by next March, we've already cut out as much "FAT" as far as I can tell, but it will still be a while before we can save that much money


We're in the same boat. I did a 3 year goal or 4 if I decide to save 6 months! I plan on starting with saving very little a month and increasing the amounts every month by as little as $5-10 or as much as $50 a month. I already have a set amount taken out automatically. I'm also planning on saving 1/2 of our tax return (I know, I should change my deductions so I don't get a tax return, but then I would spend it :teeth: ) for the next few years, this should cut my savings time considerably.

We too have no "fat" left to trim in our monthly expenses but I feel I can somehow save some amount each month!

ElizaB39
08-31-2005, 12:41 PM
Hello everyone,

DOes anybody have a coupon code for purchasing books on Dave's website? I have a few items in my cart and there is a spot for a coupone code. Every little bit helps right?

TIA

Eliza

RichNKatHolly
08-31-2005, 01:20 PM
I found all his books to be cheaper on Amazon (most were instock as well). Plus, if you spend $25 you get the free shipping. Received mine in 4 business days.

Good luck!

TNKBELL
08-31-2005, 01:40 PM
or check it out from the library and make copies of the info you need to retain.

MEM
08-31-2005, 01:45 PM
or check it out from the library and make copies of the info you need to retain.

Yes, and most libraries are part of a network and you can request books via inter-library loan from those libraries that have the books available. I just reserved both TMM and the one about Rags to Retirement and the books will be delivered to my local library in a day or two.

ElizaB39
08-31-2005, 01:59 PM
I like to keep and reread so I wanted to buy. ALso, I didn't know about the free shipping over $25 for Amazon. Thanks all!

MEM
08-31-2005, 02:15 PM
PALibraries are not so good. They only had one book, the old Financial Peace. I like to keep and reread so I wanted to buy. ALso, I didn't know about the free shipping over $25 for Amazon. Thanks all!

I hope you are not making a blanket statement about Pennsylvania libraries state-wide, but in your part of the state only? I am a native of Western PA and I know there are networks like einetwork that link 80 libraries in Western PA alone. I certainly understand the desire to re-read but I tend to borrow first and then decide if I should buy. :)

RichNKatHolly
08-31-2005, 02:29 PM
Just remember with Amazon, you have to click the super saver shipping option when checking out.

I had a revalation! Read the book through step 3. We don't have debt, but no savings and we do contribute to my DHs 401K. Next month we will start on the road to the $1000 in emergency fund and then toward putting 3 months income aside in the fund.

If I cancelled my upcoming trip to Disney we would be all the way through Step 3. :guilty: I just can't get myself to do it though. I'm not looking for opinions on what you think I should do, because I'm just not cancelling and upsetting the kids or myself, BUT, how do you guys deal with decisions like that once you start the plan?

I know that shortly after we return from vacation we will have the $$ to complete up to Step 3 anyway (tax refund in Feb will cover the 3 mos. income). Just feeling a little guilty now since I've been reading the book. Feel like I want to do it all NOW!

Don't get me wrong, the vacation is fully paid for and it hasn't "hurt" us, but was just thinking about it lately. Is this plan going to make me a super cheapy?? :earboy2:

C.Ann
08-31-2005, 02:36 PM
Is this plan going to make me a super cheapy?? :earboy2:
------------

No.. It will put you in a position where you can pay cash for the things you choose to buy/do without worrying that some major catastrophe will come along that will leave you unable to pay off those credit cards that everyone insists they will "always" be able to pay off before the end of the month..

What it will "buy" you is total peace of mind and the ability to go to sleep EVERY night knowing that you don't owe ANYONE anything - not even for "30 days".. :flower:

DMRick
08-31-2005, 03:13 PM
------------

No.. It will put you in a position where you can pay cash for the things you choose to buy/do without worrying that some major catastrophe will come along that will leave you unable to pay off those credit cards that everyone insists they will "always" be able to pay off before the end of the month..

What it will "buy" you is total peace of mind and the ability to go to sleep EVERY night knowing that you don't owe ANYONE anything - not even for "30 days".. :flower:

Keep in mind, that for some, the peace of mind comes by knowing if you buy something and there is something wrong with it, you have the backing of your credit card. That means a lot to me, and it gives me the same ability to sleep every night, knowing I'm protected.
I will continue to insist that I will "always" be able to pay off the credit card at the end of the month. I've been doing it for almost 40 years.
It may not work for you, but many of us have the control and desire to put aside spent money and do that..while enjoying the many perks a credit card can give you. If you don't have that control, or are afraid you will spend too much, than by all means go all cash. Of course you lose some great protection.

By the way, I thought of you all while in DC. We ate in the hotel restaurant, and it was late when we finished. The only way we could pay by cash, was if the various waiters and bus boys could come up with change (they couldn't). The cash draw had been emptied a couple hours before (which I thought was stupid..but they said everyone charges it to the room..which I didn't want to do) LOL. We could have charged it to our room (again, I didn't want to), but to do that you had to have a charge card on file, which wouldn't work for those who pay cash. We just used our CC..heck I wanted the extra 5% back anyway LOL.

C.Ann
08-31-2005, 03:20 PM
Keep in mind, that for some, the peace of mind comes by knowing if you buy something and there is something wrong with it, you have the backing of your credit card. That means a lot to me, and it gives me the same ability to sleep every night, knowing I'm protected.
I will continue to insist that I will "always" be able to pay off the credit card at the end of the month. I've been doing it for almost 40 years.
It may not work for you, but many of us have the control and desire to put aside spent money and do that..while enjoying the many perks a credit card can give you. If you don't have that control, or are afraid you will spend too much, than by all means go all cash. Of course you lose some great protection.

By the way, I thought of you all while in DC. We ate in the hotel restaurant, and it was late when we finished. The only way we could pay by cash, was if the various waiters and bus boys could come up with change (they couldn't). The cash draw had been emptied a couple hours before (which I thought was stupid..but they said everyone charges it to the room..which I didn't want to do) LOL. We could have charged it to our room (again, I didn't want to), but to do that you had to have a charge card on file, which wouldn't work for those who pay cash. We just used our CC..heck I wanted the extra 5% back anyway LOL.
------------------------------------

You forget that the majority of the posters here are not in the same age group as you are.. They don't have a fully funded retirement fund to fall back on; pension checks to fall back on; 40 years of saving to fall back on.. These are mostly 30-somethings (or younger), so your particular situation doesn't necessarily apply..

As for the restaurant situation, I'm sure a Visa debit card would have worked fine.. I've never had one turned down yet.. :flower:

RichNKatHolly
08-31-2005, 03:37 PM
Yes, the debit card would have done it. We use the debit to check in at hotels, etc. You can use it to rent a car too - not in NY though. We do have one CC that we keep for car rental but everytime they try to up my limit I give them a call and say "no thanks, please keep it at $xxx." When we do use that we pay it off at once.

Thanks C.Ann for the info. I was joking about the super cheapy part, I just could not believe that I of all people would consider cancelling my vacation!!! Of course, I will not do that since it is paid in full (and yes, I did use cash from my debit card) BUT my opinion of money has changed. Reading the book (mind you I didn't even finish it yet) has put me on the fast track. I want my 3 mos. living expenses in an emergency fund yesterday. :goodvibes

I am glad I purchased the book instead of lending from the library, because I know that a few days or weeks from now the feeling will fade, I'll see that nice pocket book or jacket, etc. and I will need some motivation.

I do agree, that this thread has alot of people that really should not have a CC. It would defeat the purpose of trying to get ahead and not fall back on old ways.

arminnie
08-31-2005, 03:41 PM
------------------------------------

As for the restaurant situation, I'm sure a Visa debit card would have worked fine.. I've never had one turned down yet.. :flower:

I don't know how expensive that meal was but most Visa debit cards do have a daily maximum. I couldn't buy a tv once with my Visa debit because it was over the daily limit.

My ATM/Visa debit card had a $300 maximum withdrawal on it until it was recently raised to $500. I'm not sure what the max is now for Visa debit purchases - I never use mine except at Sam's.

It doesn't matter how much money you have in your checking account if there is a daily limit the bank is not going to approve a transaction bigger than that.

C.Ann
08-31-2005, 03:48 PM
I don't know how expensive that meal was but most Visa debit cards do have a daily maximum. I couldn't buy a tv once with my Visa debit because it was over the daily limit.

My ATM/Visa debit card had a $300 maximum withdrawal on it until it was recently raised to $500. I'm not sure what the max is now for Visa debit purchases - I never use mine except at Sam's.

It doesn't matter how much money you have in your checking account if there is a daily limit the bank is not going to approve a transaction bigger than that.
--------------------------

LOL.. First of all, I wouldn't be eating a dinner that was so costly that a debit card wouldn't be sufficient to cover it.. :teeth: That's just a waste of money as far as I'm concerned..

Not sure what your particular limits are, but I have used my debit cards (have 3 different kinds) for purchases well over $800 in one day - and of course when I'm traveling, I also carry travelers checks and cash..

Do people really spend $300 on dinner? :earseek: I'm so glad I live a simple lifestyle.. :teeth:

TNKBELL
08-31-2005, 03:55 PM
Just remember with Amazon, you have to click the super saver shipping option when checking out.

I had a revalation! Read the book through step 3. We don't have debt, but no savings and we do contribute to my DHs 401K. Next month we will start on the road to the $1000 in emergency fund and then toward putting 3 months income aside in the fund.

If I cancelled my upcoming trip to Disney we would be all the way through Step 3. :guilty: I just can't get myself to do it though. I'm not looking for opinions on what you think I should do, because I'm just not cancelling and upsetting the kids or myself, BUT, how do you guys deal with decisions like that once you start the plan?

I know that shortly after we return from vacation we will have the $$ to complete up to Step 3 anyway (tax refund in Feb will cover the 3 mos. income). Just feeling a little guilty now since I've been reading the book. Feel like I want to do it all NOW!

Don't get me wrong, the vacation is fully paid for and it hasn't "hurt" us, but was just thinking about it lately. Is this plan going to make me a super cheapy?? :earboy2:
I have never had so many 2nd thoughts about cancelling a vacation! And now with gas prices and looming thoughts of hurricanes dancing in my head!! As crazy as it sounds, as much as it would be hard disappointing the kids, I would be devasted if we had to cancel!! I have been planning for months and it would be a great let down if we cancelled!! Dh & I both decided that we have that money set aside specifically for this vacation and we deserve a vacation. Sometimes I feel selfish for being this "attached" to the idea of a vacation. You are ahead of me on your steps, if that helps, our tax refund will pay off our last credit card and then we need to start saving for our 3-6 months income savings, which will probably take 2.5 years!! Anyone have anything to say about cancelling or not cancelling a vacation? Pros and Cons??

arminnie
08-31-2005, 04:04 PM
I am glad I purchased the book instead of lending from the library, because I know that a few days or weeks from now the feeling will fade, I'll see that nice pocket book or jacket, etc. and I will need some motivation.

I have the three Tightwad Gazette books and love to get them out and re-read them. They are a little out of date because of computers and the internet, but still lots of good ideas and more importantly motivation.

I still haven't figured out if the Dave Ramsey books would be worth it to me. I am also one of those older DISers without debt and with liquid funds and retirement assets. I just don't like to spend any money that I don't have to. I'm cheap which is why I'm not in debt and have savings.

RichNKatHolly
08-31-2005, 04:15 PM
--------------------------

LOL.. First of all, I wouldn't be eating a dinner that was so costly that a debit card wouldn't be sufficient to cover it.. :teeth: That's just a waste of money as far as I'm concerned..

Not sure what your particular limits are, but I have used my debit cards (have 3 different kinds) for purchases well over $800 in one day - and of course when I'm traveling, I also carry travelers checks and cash..

Do people really spend $300 on dinner? :earseek: I'm so glad I live a simple lifestyle.. :teeth:

I just had this problem when I booked our vacation. I tried to put through $2500 but it was denied. I called my bank and was told my daily limit is $2000. I could write a letter to them asking for it to be raised to whatever amount I desire. I just had the TA put through $1500 one day and $1000 the next. Worked out fine.

Oh, and the limit is only for signing transactions. We have unlimited PIN transactions, and a $500 cash withdrawl limit. So far, it has worked for us. I'm sure if some situation occurred I could call customer service and have something worked out. It is, after all, your money and you should have access to it!

As for dinners, my most expensive neared $200 but that was many years ago when DH and I were a double income, no kids type of family. Boy, how times have changed!!! :earseek:

RichNKatHolly
08-31-2005, 04:20 PM
I have never had so many 2nd thoughts about cancelling a vacation! And now with gas prices and looming thoughts of hurricanes dancing in my head!! As crazy as it sounds, as much as it would be hard disappointing the kids, I would be devasted if we had to cancel!! I have been planning for months and it would be a great let down if we cancelled!! Dh & I both decided that we have that money set aside specifically for this vacation and we deserve a vacation. Sometimes I feel selfish for being this "attached" to the idea of a vacation. You are ahead of me on your steps, if that helps, our tax refund will pay off our last credit card and then we need to start saving for our 3-6 months income savings, which will probably take 2.5 years!! Anyone have anything to say about cancelling or not cancelling a vacation? Pros and Cons??

ARminnie - Hey, I look back now and WISH I was this cheap years ago. Then I wouldn't need Dave Ramsey and he wouldn't have $13 of my money! :teeth:

TNKBELL - so long as you are not causing financial hardship elsewhere I see no problem with going forward with your vacation. I was just thinking, wow, if I cancelled my vacation I'd have $5000. BUT, we have been planning for months and the kids and my sister are so excited. I do love to travel, but this will be our last Expensive trip. We will go full steam ahead with getting that $7000 in the bank the minute we come home. I will not charge while we are away as I don't have charge cards (well, just one for the car rental, but I will prepay my bill before we leave). You do deserve a break, and the way things are going in this country we may not be able to afford to drive to the grocery store next month so do it and have fun!

I'm sure alot of other people will not agree here, but as long as you pay cash, even Dave Ramsey would be fine with it. :goodvibes

lisajl
08-31-2005, 05:19 PM
:banana: :Pinkbounc Ok--you all convinced me! I went to the website, listened to an excerpt of his show and and got the book from the library today.
I am fired up people!!! I am ready to get totally out of debt (with exception of the house right now). We don't have that much debt, a little here, a little there, but it sure adds up.

I had today off and started reading and planning. Got so excited about being debt-free, called my DH. He thinks I am crazy!!

I would love to pay for everything in cash! WoW!


Congrats to all of you that have been doing this for a while and are debt free!
I can't wait.
Lisa

Kay7979
08-31-2005, 08:02 PM
I just listened to a report on one of the news shows. They said many people in Mississipi, Alabama, and Louisiana could not afford to evacuate because it was the end of the month and they wouldn't get paid until after the 1st; they didn't have enough money for a tank of gas to drive to safety. Some asked to borrow gas money, and it sounds like no one would lend it to them, or perhaps the people they asked were similarly cash strapped. I know, in theory, that some people live "paycheck to paycheck," but I can't fathom it being so litteral that there's not enough cash on hand, and no money in the bank to buy one tank of gas. I don't understand how anyone can live that way without finding some way to reduce costs, rework the budget, get a second job, SOMETHING, so that they would never be absolutely penniless. It brings home the point that people who are working to get out of debt and develop more savings are doing the responsible thing for themselves and their families, and they should be commended for "getting the wake up call" and doing something constructive about their financial situation.

C.Ann
08-31-2005, 08:31 PM
I just listened to a report on one of the news shows. They said many people in Mississipi, Alabama, and Louisiana could not afford to evacuate because it was the end of the month and they wouldn't get paid until after the 1st; they didn't have enough money for a tank of gas to drive to safety. Some asked to borrow gas money, and it sounds like no one would lend it to them, or perhaps the people they asked were similarly cash strapped. I know, in theory, that some people live "paycheck to paycheck," but I can't fathom it being so litteral that there's not enough cash on hand, and no money in the bank to buy one tank of gas. I don't understand how anyone can live that way without finding some way to reduce costs, rework the budget, get a second job, SOMETHING, so that they would never be absolutely penniless. It brings home the point that people who are working to get out of debt and develop more savings are doing the responsible thing for themselves and their families, and they should be commended for "getting the wake up call" and doing something constructive about their financial situation.
-------------------------------

I was thinking about this myself.. And I'd venture to bet that in a situation such as this, CASH would talk much louder than a credit card..

Think about all of the middle income folks who have lost EVERYTHING -their homes, all of the contents, their cars, AND their jobs.. Will they be able to pay off their credit card bills in that magic "30 day" window? Not likely..:(
Just another burden to carry on their shoulders during an already devastating time..

RichNKatHolly
08-31-2005, 08:59 PM
I just listened to a report on one of the news shows. They said many people in Mississipi, Alabama, and Louisiana could not afford to evacuate because it was the end of the month and they wouldn't get paid until after the 1st; they didn't have enough money for a tank of gas to drive to safety. Some asked to borrow gas money, and it sounds like no one would lend it to them, or perhaps the people they asked were similarly cash strapped. I know, in theory, that some people live "paycheck to paycheck," but I can't fathom it being so litteral that there's not enough cash on hand, and no money in the bank to buy one tank of gas. I don't understand how anyone can live that way without finding some way to reduce costs, rework the budget, get a second job, SOMETHING, so that they would never be absolutely penniless. It brings home the point that people who are working to get out of debt and develop more savings are doing the responsible thing for themselves and their families, and they should be commended for "getting the wake up call" and doing something constructive about their financial situation.

It is terrible, but unfortunately it is not that unheard of. Especially in some of the areas that were hit by the hurricane. Many low income families do not make enough to save, let alone pay the month to month bills. Alot of it has to do with the country. Everything is getting so expensive, yet not many people are making enough to live. Yet, they make too much to be eligible for any type of aid.

DMRick
08-31-2005, 11:34 PM
-------------------------------

I was thinking about this myself.. And I'd venture to bet that in a situation such as this, CASH would talk much louder than a credit card..

Think about all of the middle income folks who have lost EVERYTHING -their homes, all of the contents, their cars, AND their jobs.. Will they be able to pay off their credit card bills in that magic "30 day" window? Not likely..:(
Just another burden to carry on their shoulders during an already devastating time..

Many of them don't have their cash..it's not a matter of it "talking louder"..they just can't get to it. Some may never see it..those who had it hidden at home. Most people don't carry around all their cash. I think it's silly to equate the "30" day window to something as catastrophic as this. Credit card or cash..these people have nothing. Trying to prove cash is better than charge at this point in these people's lifes is just plain silly. Believe me the credit card companies are not going to be dunning for bills at the end of 30 days.What would be the point. And most people who use their charge cards exclusively, and pay each month, don't have large charge bills due..and even if they did, their money should be in their checking accounts when they can get to them...no different than if they had paid cash..it's the same money out each month. Bills will not be paid in NO if the people had cash or charged. I doubt they are thinking right now.."gee, I'm glad I paid cash for my couch, now I don't have a charge card bill this month" (in reality, how much better might it have been if they had charged it and now would have some cash). As the guy on the news just said in an interview..his bank isn't even available right now, no idea when it will be...he has less than a dollar..and no where to spend even that. This is just so ridiculous a subject. Good grief, surely there is a better way than this to try and prove not everyone can pay in 30 days.

DMRick
08-31-2005, 11:38 PM
It is terrible, but unfortunately it is not that unheard of. Especially in some of the areas that were hit by the hurricane. Many low income families do not make enough to save, let alone pay the month to month bills.
ITA. A lot of these people had nothing much before this, and even less now...or I should say nothing. Eating was on a lot of people's mind in the back areas..not saving.

DMRick
09-01-2005, 12:00 AM
------------------------------------

You forget that the majority of the posters here are not in the same age group as you are.. They don't have a fully funded retirement fund to fall back on; pension checks to fall back on; 40 years of saving to fall back on.. These are mostly 30-somethings (or younger), so your particular situation doesn't necessarily apply..

As for the restaurant situation, I'm sure a Visa debit card would have worked fine.. I've never had one turned down yet.. :flower:
I haven't always had those things. I have them now, because we put the max in our retirement for matching, and we have always bought carefully, worked hard, and made sure we didn't overextend. It's called common sense. If we couldn't afford a vacation, we didn't take one. If I couldn't afford a new car, I didn't buy one. However, if I did buy one, and bought it on credit..it's up to me to decide if the payment was the smart way to go. Having a car payment is not neccesarily a bad thing.
I have no problem with people having savings, being careful..I do have a problem with someone acting like a cc is a sinful thing to have, and trying to convince everyone there is no reason to use a cc. It's not a bad thing. It's a different choice than you have. It's entirely up to how people use it. There is nothing at all wrong with using it to pay every bill you have, take full advantage of the points, the extended warranty's the protection, etc. If you feel you can't have one, because you would not put aside the money to pay it off monthly, then don't..but there is nothing wrong with reponsible use of a cc card. By the way, my kids are in that younger age group..and they reveal in how much benefit they get from their credit card. My daughter actually bought her car on one. It was zero interest, when the car places weren't offering such. As soon as one card reached the end of the 0 interest, she transferred the balance to another that offered it...often using a card that gave an incentive to transfer. She never paid a dime of interest. It's all in responsibility. Many many people do stuff like this. I've earned thousands this way (I love to make my best deal and then plunk down over $4,000 on a car..all free money..do you get that by just using cash? Nope). . All extra money. But it's all about being responsible.
Heck some people would not do like you did, and have both a house and a camp for years..we all make different choices, and what you consider a simple way, someone else would think is extravagant (yes, I know you live there many months now, but I'm talking when you didn't, before you decided to sell your main home)..doesn't mean one way is a wrong way, just a different way. So what works for you wouldn't be a thing I would want.
I like the "free" money. And what I spend on my card, is sitting in the checking account waiting to pay it off. Can't do that? Then perhaps a cc and all the benefits isn't for you. Want the protection and benefits a card gives you? Then don't be scared of using a credit card.

DMRick
09-01-2005, 12:06 AM
--------------------------


Do people really spend $300 on dinner? :earseek: I'm so glad I live a simple lifestyle.
Oh, and by the way..a dinner in DC for 10 people can get pricey. Ah..but I do get 5% back from my cc on the total including the tax and tip .....and that would be if it was $300..yeah, another free $15 LOL!!

C.Ann
09-01-2005, 08:05 AM
. Good grief, surely there is a better way than this to try and prove not everyone can pay in 30 days.
---------------------------------
I'm sure you must have heard by now about the family that hired a limo to take them all the way from NO to Chicago, correct? With havoc going on all around them, who do you think that driver would be more likely to transport - the person standing there with cash in their hand or the person with the credit card?

I'm fully aware of the fact that there is a MAJOR tragedy going on right now and it's usually a MAJOR situation that brings the whole house of cards tumbling down on people.. You may feel I'm "using" this situation to "prove" something, but it could be any major situation that could result in the same scenario.. You know what they say - "Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.."

I guess you didn't see much of the news coverage while you were away because this has not only had an impact on the very poor people of LA, AL and MS - it's across the board.. Do you have any idea how many people have lost their jobs in addition to losing everything else they own? Do you think the credit card companies will wait indefinitely for their money? I'm sure that some (although I doubt "all") will cut them some slack for a short period of time but after that, all bets are off.. They are owed money and they are going to want it back - no if, ands or buts about it.. There's no disputing that fact..

C.Ann
09-01-2005, 08:31 AM
I have no problem with people having savings, being careful..I do have a problem with someone acting like a cc is a sinful thing to have, and trying to convince everyone there is no reason to use a cc. .
-----------------------

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.. You seem to have a very big problem with accepting the fact that people can and do live without credit cards or simply choose not to use them.. You continually point to the fact that people are unable to use them "responsibly" rather than just acknowledging the fact that for years and years people have managed to live without them by using cash.. I've yet to hear anyone on this particular thread call them "sinful" - those are your words..

We're never going to agree on this.. The people who have posted on this thread are people who have chosen to get out of debt.. People who no longer WANT to have credit card debt - for many different reasons.. They have been offered a plan to accomplish that goal.. Why do you feel it necessary to assume you know their reasoning behind those goals? Your personal situation is vastly different.. If it works for you, that's fine.. If you're comfortable with it, that's fine.. If you enjoy using credit cards, that's fine.. However, is it really that difficult for you to understand that not everyone wants or needs to live their lives in the same manner that you do? Life is all about choices and not everyone wants or needs to make the same ones..

DMRick
09-01-2005, 09:00 AM
-----------------------
However, is it really that difficult for you to understand that not everyone wants or needs to live their lives in the same manner that you do? Life is all about choices and not everyone wants or needs to make the same ones..
And why is so hard for you to understand that many people can work their way out of debt and use credit cards. Read what you just wrote, then think what you keep saying about credit cards..as if there is always something wrong with them and everyone should only use cash, like you. I happen to think people have a choice, and not feel that a good savings plan can't include a credit card. In the above instance, I just thought it was out of line to compare people not paying their credit cards off in 30 days, to using this horrible time to prove how it could happen. I hardly feel people without homes, food, clothes are worrying about the items they charged within the past 30 days, and how they will pay off this one month debt. That really hit me as a bad way to make a comparison. Hey, bad stuff could always happen, and bills not get paid for one month. If you pay with cash or cc. It doesn't mean you will suddenly be put on the bankruptcy rolls.
You are right..it's all about choices..but you keep hammering away about how cash is the only way to go..and it isn't. There is more than one way..and some people enjoy the many benefits of credit cards and if used responsibly, they can be real money makers. Not everyone on this thread is near bankrupt. Many just want to make sure they have savings, retirement funds, vacations, without a lot of debt. Credit cards can be a real savings because of the benefits, especially the rewards and extended warrenty can show that), and you can end up with more money if you use them responsibly.

DMRick
09-01-2005, 09:13 AM
Of course I've seen the news while I was away, and I've been home for a couple of days, so I'm not sure, why you thought you should point out that maybe I didn't know what was going on. I'm still waiting and hoping to hear from a friend, so it's been hard to keep myself away from the TV, radio, newspapers. His area was hit hard.

I'm not sure how many people you think in this tragedy are standing there with cash in their hand..but believe it or not, if someone were going to Chicago, there are cash machines that work along the way. In any case, I'm not cashless, just because I use a credit card. I use the cc for benefits, but I always have cash available. It's not like I have no money. Many of us who do, also have cash in hand. I use the cc because it makes money for me. Enough that I think they can be a postivie thing. Imagine that.
Yes the cc companies are going to want there money. But you must keep skipping over that word responsible. Just like using cash (except I get benefits), I buy, I have the cash to cover it. Think about it. I charge a refrigerator. At the end of the month, I pay off the $1,000. Or I pay cash, I give them $1,000. Within the same 30 days. I earn points, and the part of the warranty that is for one year, is now for two. And the difference, other than the benefits is??? I'm not alone in this. Many people have learned to make their credit cards work for them..even on this Disney board. Many peope right on this board, pay for their vacation with credit card and then pay it off. They make their money work for them. If you are on the edge of bankruptcy, and use a cc and make minimum payments, and still use your cc to charge your vacation to Disney, then a cc isn't the smart choice. But it is all about choices. Cash isn't the only way to go for many.

---------------------------------
I'm sure you must have heard by now about the family that hired a limo to take them all the way from NO to Chicago, correct? With havoc going on all around them, who do you think that driver would be more likely to transport - the person standing there with cash in their hand or the person with the credit card?

I'm fully aware of the fact that there is a MAJOR tragedy going on right now and it's usually a MAJOR situation that brings the whole house of cards tumbling down on people.. You may feel I'm "using" this situation to "prove" something, but it could be any major situation that could result in the same scenario.. You know what they say - "Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.."

I guess you didn't see much of the news coverage while you were away because this has not only had an impact on the very poor people of LA, AL and MS - it's across the board.. Do you have any idea how many people have lost their jobs in addition to losing everything else they own? Do you think the credit card companies will wait indefinitely for their money? I'm sure that some (although I doubt "all") will cut them some slack for a short period of time but after that, all bets are off.. They are owed money and they are going to want it back - no if, ands or buts about it.. There's no disputing that fact..

Julia M
09-01-2005, 09:23 AM
-----------------------

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.. You seem to have a very big problem with accepting the fact that people can and do live without credit cards or simply choose not to use them.. You continually point to the fact that people are unable to use them "responsibly" rather than just acknowledging the fact that for years and years people have managed to live without them by using cash.. I've yet to hear anyone on this particular thread call them "sinful" - those are your words..

We're never going to agree on this.. The people who have posted on this thread are people who have chosen to get out of debt.. People who no longer WANT to have credit card debt - for many different reasons.. They have been offered a plan to accomplish that goal.. Why do you feel it necessary to assume you know their reasoning behind those goals? Your personal situation is vastly different.. If it works for you, that's fine.. If you're comfortable with it, that's fine.. If you enjoy using credit cards, that's fine.. However, is it really that difficult for you to understand that not everyone wants or needs to live their lives in the same manner that you do? Life is all about choices and not everyone wants or needs to make the same ones..

C. Ann,

I haven't read through this whole thread, so excuse me if I am repeating myself. I started reading it, and realized that Dave Ramsey is probaly not for me, so didn't read everything.

But, I think for some people, it's like a diet, or alcoholism. Some people can't drink in moderation. So they give it up. I can have a couple of beers at a party, and not take a drink for a month. Or dh and I will open a bottle of wine, and drink it over a few days. No problem. But, I have issues with food. I have a terrible time eating in moderation. Since I can't give up food (like you give up alcohol), I need an eating plan for the rest of my life. I just can't do it on my own. (I follow WW)

For some people, money is their issue. They need to follow a plan. People who don't have food issues find it hard to understand why I do. Some people who have never had difficulty with money find it hard to understand why someone would have difficulty budgeting. You can't give up money, like alcohol. So having someone help you with a plan is important.

I'm not saying that everyone who follows Dave Ramsey has had money problems, don't get me wrong. And I do think what I said has validity. I have tried to look at his website, and alot of it is too rigid for me. But, we naturally pay our credit cards every month, have college funds for the kids, good savings for our retirement, save for travel (never charge it) and so on. Even when I was young and struggling and broke, I never charged more than I could effectively pay, and saved my money and so on. So, someone like me isn't going to appreciate what he has to say as much as someone who has had their life turned around by it

JMHO

julia

C.Ann
09-01-2005, 09:25 AM
You are right..it's all about choices..but you keep hammering away about how cash is the only way to go..and it isn't..
------------------
Because it is for the people on this particular thread who have made that choice already.. I don't know the particulars of why they have made that choice - and I wouldn't be so presumptious as to assume that they have made that choice based soley on irresponsibility with cc's.. I started this thread to encourage their efforts to live by a method they have chosen - not pass judgement on how or why they arrived at that decision..

DMRick
09-01-2005, 09:38 AM
It is for some people on this thread. Some are getting ideas on how to save, etc. Not all are using all the same ways. Some make other choices to get there. While this thread can be helpful to many, I'm not reading where all the people on this thread have made the choice to only use cash. While you have pointed out a way that works for you, I have pointed out a way that works for others and brings extra cash and benfits. Some, believe it or not never knew about the many benefits of a cc (judging by how many have PM'd me to find out what kind of cards bring what kind of benefits)..so now they realize there is more than one way to go about making the most of their money. Many are getting good ideas about paying down debt (which a cc doesn't neccesarily have to be..a debt that is), some are learning about having a reserve savings, and some are learning about how to use cc to their benefit. Again, it's about choice. No one has to follow the entire book, it's not the only way to be debt free. And since this is posted on a "public" board, I assume those of us who don't agree 100% with this guy are allowed to comment on his suggestions and disagree with you.
------------------
Because it is for the people on this particular thread who have made that choice already.. I don't know the particulars of why they have made that choice - and I wouldn't be so presumptious as to assume that they have made that choice based soley on irresponsibility with cc's.. I started this thread to encourage their efforts to live by a method they have chosen - not pass judgement on how or why they arrived at that decision..

C.Ann
09-01-2005, 09:58 AM
No one has to follow the entire book, it's not the only way to be debt free. And since this is posted on a "public" board, I assume those of us who don't agree 100% with this guy are allowed to comment on his suggestions and disagree with you.
----------------------

Agreed.. So how about this? I will continue to encourage those who have already made the choice to live on a cash basis, without passing judgement on why they have made that chioce - and you can continue to offer them suggestions as to why they shouldn't, based on your assumptions of why they have made that choice to begin with.. :flower:

DMRick
09-01-2005, 10:01 AM
Just to clarify, since someone wrote me about this. You still get the benefits when you do not carry a balance.
Yes, it is best to not use a credit card if you plan on carrying a balance, and can't afford to pay it off.
However, you can have it both ways. Use the credit card, while putting aside the amount you are paying with the credit card. It's just like paying in cash, but you get the benefits. There is no difference, as long as you pay it off each month. If you have a major catasrophe that month..you would still have the cash in your checking account to pay off the credit card (you are paying after you buy, instead of while you buy). I'm not advocating charging and charging and paying a high interest rate. I'm advocating using your cc almost as cash, and earning extra money, giving yourself protection against unscrupulous sellers, points, and availablity of the extended warranty, and insurance on car rentals.

DMRick
09-01-2005, 10:03 AM
You couldn't just say we could both encourage different ways to pay for different reasons..for those still trying to make a choice (I don't see where everyone on this list has made that choice)? Had to be a dig on the end? ----------------------

Agreed.. So how about this? I will continue to encourage those who have already made the choice to live on a cash basis, without passing judgement on why they have made that chioce - and you can continue to offer them suggestions as to why they shouldn't, based on your assumptions of why they have made that choice to begin with..

C.Ann
09-01-2005, 10:27 AM
You couldn't just say we could both encourage different ways to pay for different reasons..for those still trying to make a choice (I don't see where everyone on this list has made that choice)? Had to be a dig on the end?
----------------------------

I'm sorry if you consider that a "dig", but if you will go back and read your posts you have repeatedly stressed "irresponsibility" - in one form or another - of being the reason that people run into trouble with credit cards.. Is that the case with some people? I'm sure it is - but your suggestions and advice would be easier accepted if you didn't repeatedly focus on that one aspect.. I think the people on this thread have already had their "reality" check and are fully aware of how and why they're in trouble right now - more reasons than you and I will ever know.. Encouragement is what they're seeking at this point in time and it is encouragement that will help them reach their goals.. If you consider my pointing that out as a "dig", then I really don't know what to tell you..

RichNKatHolly
09-01-2005, 12:28 PM
OK - I am almost through the book. Very motivational and I'm ready to go! Got all my stuff ready for the consignment shop. Have a box of things to bring to my ebay drop office. Reorganized the kitchen cabinets and inventoried my food items (hoping to purchase less with my free Grocery Game Trial).

Now, I know I should probably just cancel my trip to fast forward to step 3, but we won't do that.

I will start this week by putting $10 into a new account every week. I will not request the debit card, etc. After vacation we will try to put $100 in that account every 2 weeks and more when we can. After the next tax refund I should be done with step 3! WOW, there is an end in sight. Although, that emergency account would have come in handy this week. TV is going and refrigerator seal broke so we are using tape so we don't loose too much energy. Guess that's Mr. Murphy setting up house!!!

Anyway, I can see both points made by C.Ann and DMRick. We will all have to agree to disagree. I, for one, cannot have credit cards, but my grandparents, who were financial wizards (IMO) and retired with nearly $1 Million in assets and cash had ccs and paid them off every month. My grandfather considered it using someone else's money for a month while still earning interest on his cash in the bank.

For some that can control spending that is great. For alot of us on this thread, it is dangerous ground to even think of a cc. We need to first change our thinking. DH and I always thought of the cc as infusions of income. NOT GOOD! I still cannot trust myself to have one, even with the benefits. It is really just a personal thing for everyone.

:love:

DMRick
09-01-2005, 12:29 PM
Actually there is a difference between being responsible and irresponsibilty. I see where I used using a credit card responsibly 5 times (I did a "contl f" and found them all) in 16 pages..I never used the word or indicated anyone on this board was irresponsible, so please don't put words in my mouth (or posts) to try to make your point. I've seen where another says she was irresponsible, and another mentioned the word responsible. I think others here know just what I mean. If you charge and charge and charge and can't pay your bill, that is not using a cc responsibly (#6 if you are counting). And there is a way to get your cake and eat it too..by using your cc for points and rewards, and yet stay out of debt. Pay it off, monthly, by having the cash set aside in your checking account. Same as using cash, but with the perks.
It was a dig, at me, and I took it personally. I never said you were wrong for using cash..I am pointing out reasons why cc can be a very good thing, for those who can pay them off monthly. Obviously it upsets you, that I think there may be a way to have it both ways..no credit card bills, and yet the rewards of a cc. If it doesn't work for someone, then they sure don't have to take my advice. It's a choice, even for those who want to follow some of hte book. People on this board are not bad if they decide it works for them to vary a bit for a good benefit. They can do whatever they feel is the most benefit for them.

----------------------------

I'm sorry if you consider that a "dig", but if you will go back and read your posts you have repeatedly stressed "irresponsibility" - in one form or another - of being the reason that people run into trouble with credit cards....

DMRick
09-01-2005, 12:35 PM
hmm..it posted twice..so I erased it.

DMRick
09-01-2005, 12:36 PM
Wonderful points..you see what works for you with an informed choice and you do it. You aren't alone with the CC use, but at some point in your life you may be able to do as well as your grandfather by using someone elses money. It takes learned discipline to use someone elses money LOL. And you are right..it's a personal choice.
PS: if that TV (if you have to buy a new one) only has a year warrenty can you be strong enough to buy it on CC and get the extended warranty and then come home, go on line and pay it off immediately with the cash you would have used? If you come tell us you bought it, we can pester you to quickly pay it off LOL!



I, for one, cannot have credit cards, but my grandparents, who were financial wizards (IMO) and retired with nearly $1 Million in assets and cash had ccs and paid them off every month. My grandfather considered it using someone else's money for a month while still earning interest on his cash in the bank.

For some that can control spending that is great. For alot of us on this thread, it is dangerous ground to even think of a cc. We need to first change our thinking. DH and I always thought of the cc as infusions of income. NOT GOOD! I still cannot trust myself to have one, even with the benefits. It is really just a personal thing for everyone.


:love:

RichNKatHolly
09-01-2005, 12:42 PM
Wonderful points..you see what works for you with an informed choice and you do it. You aren't alone with the CC use, but at some point in your life you may be able to do as well as your grandfather by using someone elses money. It takes learned discipline to use someone elses money LOL. And you are right..it's a personal choice.
PS: if that TV (if you have to buy a new one) only has a year warrenty can you be strong enough to buy it on CC and get the extended warranty and then come home, go on line and pay it off immediately with the cash you would have used? If you come tell us you bought it, we can pester you to quickly pay it off LOL!

LOL - I would need much pestering! Luckily, this TV is about 13 years old. I will purchase another tube television as a Christmas gift for the family for less than $400 (hopefully, the old one makes it until then). They are actually low priced enough that I can use my little CC to pay for it (probably should have mentioned I do have 1 with a very small limit which we use for car rental, when they raise the limit I call and tell them to lower it) When I use the cc I usually pay the amount I'm going to spend BEFORE the purchase. Then for a few hours or days my cc balance is -$xxx. Do all ccs offer the extended warranty thing? I've really never heard of it.

I will hope and pray that I will be ina position one day to be able to use the benefits of ccs, but for now I will be fine without it and just use my debit. Some of them have points and mileage too, but not mine. I think though, that I will always be afraid to fall back into a cc hole. BUT, I have no problems with anyone who uses them, it is a personal choice.

DMRick
09-01-2005, 12:46 PM
Do all ccs offer the extended warranty thing? I've really never heard of it.


Most gold/silver or platinum..not the plain ones. Call your cc company and ask. It's usually in the little paper that comes with the card and once a year, that most of us don't read. Ours (we have 4 with the extended warranty, because of various types of points and money back) even covers if I trip on the stairs bringing the purchase into the house, or if someone steals my new purchase out of the car, while I finish shopping (you need a police report for that one LOL).

RichNKatHolly
09-01-2005, 12:52 PM
Most gold/silver or platinum..not the plain ones. Call your cc company and ask. It's usually in the little paper that comes with the card and once a year, that most of us don't read. Ours (we have 4 with the extended warranty, because of various types of points and money back) even covers if I trip on the stairs bringing the purchase into the house, or if someone steals my new purchase out of the car, while I finish shopping (you need a police report for that one LOL).

Thanks for the info. I doubt I'm gold/silver worthy just yet, but getting there :goodvibes I'll check with my company anyway.

DMRick
09-01-2005, 01:12 PM
A lot of people get that gold and up, just because they have had credit and used it LOL. Funny how that works, eh?Thanks for the info. I doubt I'm gold/silver worthy just yet, but getting there :goodvibes I'll check with my company anyway.

C.Ann
09-01-2005, 01:40 PM
It was a dig, at me, and I took it personally..
-------------

If you choose to take it as a "dig", there's nothing I can say that will change your mind.. I stated my reasons for starting and continuing this thread - to encourage people who are leaning towards a different financial mind set than yours - that of using cash as opposed to cc's.. If somewhere among these many threads you encouraged people to do the same, I totally missed it..

You are obviously a staunch supporter of credit cards and do seem to have quite a bit of knowledge in how to make credit cards work for those who choose to use them, so why not start a thread of just that nature - "How To Make Your Credit Cards Work For You"? It would be of great service to those who share your views and I'll even promise not to post on it! :teeth:

Meanwhile, the earth isn't going to come to a screeching halt if people choose cash over credit cards and a little encouragement will go a long way in helping them to reach their goals.. If my biggest crime in life is encouraging people who have made a very doable and workable choice in terms of how they handle their money, then I'd say I don't have to worry about spending time in the slammer for it any time soon.. :rotfl:

DMRick
09-01-2005, 02:03 PM
I misunderstood..I thought you started this thread to tell people about living a debt free life, and to encourage reading a book. Didn't realize from the title or your first post, that it was only about using cash only to pay for everything. Perhaps you might think about changing the title to "for people who want to pay for everything with cash only". You are wrong to assume, that because I showed another way to make cash work for them (by putting it aside each month and get rewards with cc..then using the cash to pay them off) I showed no encouragement to people to be debt free.
I'm a staunch supporter of making money work for me (and others), not for credit cards per se....I certainly don't think people should have cc debt. Making money to help build a debtfree life, could be done in many ways, but cc vs cash is one way. Until a moderator tells me this is just your thread, and I can't continue to "encourage" people to be debt free, and make their money work for them at the same time, I'll continue to post, rather than start a different thread.

I have no idea what the "slammer" thing means. I certainly never said you would be arrested for your views or that you committed a crime. However, your way also is not always the only way...just as mine is not.
-------------

If you choose to take it as a "dig", there's nothing I can say that will change your mind.. I stated my reasons for starting and continuing this thread - to encourage people who are leaning towards a different financial mind set than yours - that of using cash as opposed to cc's.. If somewhere among these many threads you encouraged people to do the same, I totally missed it..

You are obviously a staunch supporter of credit cards and do seem to have quite a bit of knowledge in how to make credit cards work for those who choose to use them, so why not start a thread of just that nature - "How To Make Your Credit Cards Work For You"? It would be of great service to those who share your views and I'll even promise not to post on it! :teeth:

Meanwhile, the earth isn't going to come to a screeching halt if people choose cash over credit cards and a little encouragement will go a long way in helping them to reach their goals.. If my biggest crime in life is encouraging people who have made a very doable and workable choice in terms of how they handle their money, then I'd say I don't have to worry about spending time in the slammer for it any time soon.. :rotfl:

kidshop
09-01-2005, 02:08 PM
. Having a car payment is not neccesarily a bad thing.
I have no problem with people having savings, being careful..I do have a problem with someone acting like a cc is a sinful thing to have, and trying to convince everyone there is no reason to use a cc. It's not a bad thing. It's a different choice than you have. It's entirely up to how people use it. There is nothing at all wrong with using it to pay every bill you have, take full advantage of the points, the extended warranty's the protection, etc. If you feel you can't have one, because you would not put aside the money to pay it off monthly, then don't..but there is nothing wrong with reponsible use of a cc card. ......I like the "free" money. And what I spend on my card, is sitting in the checking account waiting to pay it off. Can't do that? Then perhaps a cc and all the benefits isn't for you. Want the protection and benefits a card gives you? Then don't be scared of using a credit card.

I should probably read the rest of the thread, but we charge everything on credit cards....and pay it off each month. If I couldn't afford to pay the bill a the end of the month, I wouldn't buy it in the first place. I love the 'free money' float of 25 days! All of our large purchases the last 3 years or so, have been 0% financing for 12 months. A year of free use of furniture and appliances yipeee! Of course, it goes without saying that the bills are paid in full before the 0% rate goes away. I can't imagine living any other way. It seems once you can get ahead, you can stay ahead. There is good debt and bad debt, and credit cards *can* be a great tool if you have knowledge and discipline.

dmensing
09-01-2005, 02:13 PM
C.Ann & DMRick:

I read the boards daily but don't post too often. I just wanted to chime in to say thanks to both of you for sharing your information and perspective. Both of you make valid points and offer valuable information to help all of us manage our hard earned money better.

I am similar to DMRick, where I use credit cards whenever I can and pay it off everyone month. I am glad, though, that C.Ann shared her enthusiasm for Dave's book since I wasn't familiar with it and she brought it to my attention. I just finished reading it, and although I don't agree with everything, I think I can improve my current methods of money management by using some of his tips. I am always looking for opportunities to learn and this thread gave me that opportunity.

On a side note, I also wanted to thank you both for your input on the E-bay thread that got me started on E-bay last year!

Thanks,
Dan.

C.Ann
09-01-2005, 02:21 PM
Until a moderator tells me this is just your thread, and I can't continue to "encourage" people to be debt free, and make their money work for them at the same time, I'll continue to post, rather than start a different thread..
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Boy - you and I certainly seem to have a communication problem here.. I made the suggestion of starting a new thread because I thought you were sincere in wanting to share your credit card knowledge with people who choose to use them.. Why would we need a moderator for that? You obviously have knowledge and personal experience in that area, just as I have knowledge and personal experience in living my life on a cash basis.. Why wouldn't you want to share that knowledge in an arena where people are specifically looking for that information? :confused3 Isn't the object of the Budget Board to help people in the specific areas in which they are looking for help?

I suppose the title of this thread "could" be changed, but the book advocates the use of cash, not credit - so anyone who has read or heard about this book would know that.. People are interested in hearing how it works - and who it has worked for.. If they were looking for info on how to make their credit cards work for them, then that's the type of thread they would be looking for, don't you think? :flower:

C.Ann
09-01-2005, 02:27 PM
On a side note, I also wanted to thank you both for your input on the E-bay thread that got me started on E-bay last year!

Thanks,
Dan.
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Is eBay still around? I haven't even looked at it in months.. LOL.. Awhile back I tried to research something I have on hand here and it was impossible to find with the way they have switched all the categories around..

Hope you're doing well with it.. With summer winding down I'm sure that buyers will be spending a lot more time sitting in front of their computers.. :flower:

Kay7979
09-01-2005, 02:32 PM
This is a very interesting thread. I believe, like the OP, that credit cards are much misused, and that most people should avoid them as much as possible and pay cash for what they want, because they don't have the willpower to pay off their cards at the end of each month, and credit cards make it too easy to spend money that might not otherwise be spent. Even people with good intentions sometimes fall prey to carrying a balance and paying interest. BUT, I agree with the concept that as consumers understand the use and misuse of credit, and become more sophisticated in this area, it is not necessary to live on a "cash only" basis. Many financial experts teach the concept of making OTHER people's money work for you, and using credit wisely to actually get ahead. This may seem like a dangerous concept to some who are working on controling their spending, and their money management skills, but once families have mastered this, they should not have a phobia about credit. Credit is like fire in that it can be extremely destructive, but it can be equally beneficial when used for legitimate purposes.

DMRick
09-01-2005, 02:53 PM
Apparently on a budget board, they are looking for all sorts of ways to save and spend money, and many will use some of this book, some of another. Just because people have an interest in seeing how it worked for others, doesn't have ot mean, they can only go by what is in that book, to make the ideas in it work. Just looking at those posting, makes me think not everyone posting here thinks there is just one way to do it, but still have interest in the book and how different methods have worked for others. Obviously it's not a closed thread..and people have been interested in several ways to go about budgeting and paying down debt, including, this book. This is a bulletin board, and threads often cover more than one idea.

[QUOTE=C.Ann]------------------

I suppose the title of this thread "could" be changed, but the book advocates the use of cash, not credit - so anyone who has read or heard about this book would know that.. People are interested in hearing how it works - and who it has worked for.. If they were looking for info on how to make their credit cards work for them, then that's the type of thread they would be looking for, don't you think?QUOTE]

C.Ann
09-01-2005, 02:53 PM
[QUOTE=Kay7979], it is not necessary to live on a "cash only" basis.

they should not have a phobia about credit. QUOTE]
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I agree 100%.. It's not "necessary" - for some people it is a "want".. Phobia has nothing to do with it - or at least not in my case.. I have watched two generations (and in some cases, three) of my family members acquire numerous homes, vehicles, travel trailers, boats,take early retirements and still maintain a large stockpile of wealth that will last long after they are gone - and it was done 100% with cash.. People learn what they live and that's how we were raised.. :flower:

Could they have acquired more - if they had chosen a different financial mind set? Possibly - but why would they need to? They acquired everything in life that they need and want, so what would be the point? :confused3

C.Ann
09-01-2005, 03:02 PM
Apparently on a budget board, they are looking for all sorts of ways to save and spend money, and many will use some of this book, some of another. Just because people have an interest in seeing how it worked for others, doesn't have ot mean, they can only go by what is in that book, to make the ideas in it work.
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Hmmm... I suppose.. However, if I were looking for specific information on how to make credit cards work for me, I wouldn't be looking on a thread about a book that encourages just the opposite.. :teeth:

TNKBELL
09-01-2005, 03:05 PM
Thank you to everyone posting on this thread it's good to hear more than one viewpoint. I wish I could be as disciplined as DMRICK, I can only hope to aspire to that someday!! For me and my horrible lack of willpower, It's important for me to change my life by starting with a cash only basis until I conquer my self-control. I think DMRICK made some great insite to where we can go after we have taken back control of our finances. Of course everyone has different situations and I think that Dave's book addresses many people in my generation that have spending problems and it is a wake up call that we need to make some serious changes for our sake, our children and our country. C.Ann and DMRICK you both have made great points and I thank you for that!