I was just watching the news and.......

[lvs_eeyore]

They said that Disney's profits are down one hundred million dollars from this time last year due to the economy. They said in essence that they don't expect profits to go back up until the economy gets much better and people begin to feel very secure that it will stay that way. They also said that it's not just Disney that's feeling it. Also mentioned was Universal and Vegas.

[Testtrack321]

Guess who is actualy incressing in attendence. The close to your home amusement parks like Cedar Fair's parks and Six Flag's parks.

[MickeyMoose15]

WDW attendance is down a bit this year because of the weak economy.

[Mr D]

I wonder what the attendance figures were for Tokyo DisneySea was for today, they did open this morning to the general public because its tomorrow there (sept. 4th)

[ozmo19]

SeaWorld in Orlando is running on-track to have a record breaking year with attendance, too. Besides the economy have slowed down, you might start to see that people are reevaulating the astronomical cost to visit WDW now. Many folks feel personally secure during the slowdown, but some might be just thinking a little more about how much the cost is and if it isn't worth the trip anylonger. As for attendance, we live in Orlando, and used to visit the parks at least twice a week. There's nothing new, things are closed, hours are short, and the parks are beginning to be unkept in many ways. We don't go but every few weeks now. That type of loss of visitor affects the attendance as well.

[dmermod]

I'm not an economics major or anything - but perhaps if Mr. Eisner lowered the prices a bit on the parks, wouldn't more people attend, bringing more money into the park?

We'd all love to see that wouldn't we

Cheers
:bounce:

[Laurajean1014]

Friends just back from WDW and they said that people were everywhere and it was crowded! They were also buying everything in sight! Guess, the recession is taking longer to hit WDW!

Don't believe everything you read, unless your on these boards.......

[Safari Steve]

SeaWorld Orlando and Busch Gardens Tampa have the highest single-day admission cost in FL. Their recent price hike to 51.85 prompted the most recent price increase at WDW and UO. WDW's ticket is less than a dollar cheaper than Seaworld's... but cheaper nonetheless.

[DreamingofDisney]

Don't forget that they are comparing these revenue numbers to last year's numbers. The Millennium (sp?) Celebration was a huge success $$wise, so I think it would be tough to out do a showing like that, slow economy or not. But yes, the economy has slowed. The buzz here is all about Compaq & HP merging. Jobs are now going to be lost in our backyard and that's when this all gets a bit scary.

[fklhou]

Look at this article for more information on Disney. . http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-asecdisney29082901aug29.story?coll=orl%2dhome%2dhe adline Disney is indeed suffering due to the economy.

[KnightsQwn]

Well, I went to one of the "neighborhood" parks and I will DEFINATELY be doing DISNEY from now on only.

Disney spoils us, so, if they suffer now, the folks that go to the lesser parks will be back.

Nobody does it like Disney/

[johare]

Yep, Disney is doing so well that they have to fire 6 dock workers who previously handled the friendship boats.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-biz-boats090701.story?coll=orl%2Dbusiness%2Dheadlines

[MickeyMoose15]

Dino-Rama area is a kiddie area to get families to go there. Paul Pressler said in an interview that a new E-Ticket attraction is planned for 2004 but no word yet on any new land.

They don't talk to cast members about anything till about a week or a couple of days before it is official.

[JeffH]

Disney hasn't done much positive in the past few years
If this is how you see it, they nothing Disney could ever do will ever be positive to you.
Considering the following has been done in the past few years at WDW:
The highly successful Millenium Celebration at Epcot (which is the main reason that attendance is down from last year, because last year was very successful) added:
Tapestry of Nations and Reflections of Earth.
The (Food/Wine & Flower/Garden) Festivals at Epcot have gotten bigger and better every year, such events that we have made single day trips to Epcot just to enjoy them.
The LIVE entertainment has increased (in Epcot and throughout the world), including the 2 Lord Flatly runs and this years Blast!

Additional hours at MGM to accomodate the addition of the fantastic Fantamic (our favorite attraction in all of WDW), along with the 1st true thrill ride at WDW, Rock and Roller Coaster, and one of Tasha's favorite Bear in the Big Blue House.

The Pooh and Buzz additions at the MK have been extremely successful, as was the return of the Main Street Electical parade, and Aladdin and the new Tiki Birds are 2 of Tasha's favorite attractions.

The expansion of character meals and the great value all you can eat meals and buffets, have made WDW an eaters delight.

Then, of course, AK opened only a few years ago (our favorite park), which with the live shows and intense landscaping inspire us to return over and over again.

But it seems that you conveniently choose to ignore these, or have declared them unworthy of your praise.
(those in Car #1) thought Disney was the most wonderful magical place on earth and agreed with everything they are doing?
I'm in car #1, think WDW is the most wonderful magical place on Earth, yet DON'T agree with everything they are doing (no one is perfect), in fact I speak out whenever I feel something is wrong/bad, and even have posted 'how WDW could be better' on my own Disney webpage. But just because JitYI sucks doesn't mean that everything else at Epcot does as well.
Disney is hoping that Dino-Rama is a quick bandaid for a park sorely in need of help.
No, Dino-Rama is Disney adding a few C and D rides to what was basically an E attraction filled park so far. Disney parks have typically been filled with A-E attractions, but have most recently only been adding E attractions. Now that they have finally gotten around to adding a few 'minor' B-D attractions, is not a negative thing.
Oh boy oh boy oh boy...another parade! How wonderful. Disney can never have enough parades.
Disney has always had parades, kids love parades, people gather thickly to see them, parades are 'events' that people make it a point to see. People who don't care for parades usually love them as well because they have the park to themselves while everyone else is lined up for them. I guess you can't appreciate them from either angle? We plan to try to see 3 (new) parades in one day on 9/29, because Tasha loves parades.
I just bought tickets for Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween party.
I just got ours in the mail (along with our MVMCP tix), last weekend, we will be there 10/26, Tasha will probably be dressed as Kida and I might try to fit into my Starfleet uniform once again.

Sure, there will always be things that we can complain about, but nothing deserves the complete condemnation of WDW and/or Eisner.

[MickeyMoose15]

Almost every year Disney does something positive......except replace a old attraction with a character meet and greet. :mad:

[dmermod]

Why do people insist that park attendance is down due to the way Disney is presenting itself. Thats about as lame as saying "Everyone stand by me and don't buy gas for 1 week, that way we can drive the gasoline prices down". Have any of you naysayers actually read a newspaper that doesn't deal with local events.

Sure, Mike Eisner is in it for the money. Isn't he the CEO of one of the biggest corporations in the world. By the way if you don't like Disney, don't be watching ESPN, or watching cartoons in the morning, or turning on the news in the evening (cause it's pretty much all owned by Disney). Anybody ever decide to send Disney a letter written with more than a few syllable words in it to express their concerns? Naw, it's pretty safe to say that you folks just like irritating us folks and walking away afterwards (smack that beehive).

Park attendance is down due to the thousands of people who are being laid off, or cut back or salaries reduced to save business across the nation (jeez even globally, read anything about Toshiba lately).

Also - when was the last time we had a .35 cheesburger. It's the same principle folks. Park costs were about $20 bucks years ago. Now they're up - jeez, live with it.

Johare - nobody wants everyone to be the same. But you might be happier over at one of the following newsgroups, they all speak your language:

alt.disney.criticism
alt.disney.sucks
alt.disney.the-evil-empire

As for me - I'm happy as a lark nowing I can get onto any Disney property I want, whenenver I want, with whomever I want.

And all you naysayers are just jealous !! (neener, neener, foo-foo - raspberries abound!!!)

Cheers
:bounce::bounce::bounce:

[MickeyMoose15]

Attendance is down because the economy is down and many people are losing their jobs, so they want to be careful with their money.

[johare]

JeffH,

That's the BEST you can come up with? Pooh, Buzz, Tapestry of Nations, Flower Festivals, R&R Coaster, Extra hours at MGM, new Tiki Birds?!? and Aladdin?!? You MUST be joking! None of these lame attractions deserve any praise whatsover. The only possible exceptions in my opinon are Buzz which is amusing, though hardly innovative and R&R which is also fun, but uses darkness in place of theming. Disney can and hopefully will do much better than this in the future.

I'm in car #1, think WDW is the most wonderful magical place on EarthI think car #1 is driving right into a blinding sunset.

No, Dino-Rama is Disney adding a few C and D rides to what was basically an E attraction filled park so farDino-Rama is not adding C and D rides, they are adding cheap carnival rides. There's a big difference. Look at the C & D rides of the past.

I just got ours in the mail (along with our MVMCP tix), last weekend, we will be there 10/26Uh oh, that's the same day we will be there. :-) Unfortunately we are skipping MVMCP for the first time this year.

Attendance is down because the economy is down and many people are losing their jobs, so they want to be careful with their money.Strange...the other parks haven't been affected as much as Disney. The Disney spin machine would like everyone to believe otherwise. While the economy has had some impact on attendance, the truth is that Disney has brought it upon themselves.

[JeffH]

That's the BEST you can come up with? Pooh, Buzz, Tapestry of Nations, Flower Festivals, R&R Coaster, Extra hours at MGM, new Tiki Birds?!? and Aladdin?!?
All were/are excellent minor (R&RC major) additions to the parks, in the same vein as Peter Pan, Dumbo, and Snow White (which you must also think are jokes and deserve no praise).
And if they were to add a spectacular high-tech ride in Fantasyland, all the 'old' rides would then seem very dated.
Note: there is more theming in R&RC than Space Mountain (which has hardly any theming, just darkness), so I guess it is lame as well.

quotes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attendance is down because the economy is down and many people are losing their jobs, so they want to be careful with their money.
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Strange...the other parks haven't been affected as much as Disney. The Disney spin machine would like everyone to believe otherwise. While the economy has had some impact on attendance, the truth is that Disney has brought it upon themselves
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NO, attendance is down this year because attendance was WAY UP last year as a result of the Millenium Celebration which packed Epcot.

[MickeyMoose15]

GO JEFF!!!!! GO JEFF!!!!

[mktiggerman]

Originally posted by MickeyMoose15
Almost every year Disney does something positive......except replace a old attraction with a character meet and greet. :mad:

honestly, the Attractions management has no plans when they close down an attraction. So they'll typically use it for storage space. But when entertainment uses it, at least SOMETHING is being done w/ it. I'd rather have a character meet than a wall.

[space42]

honestly, the Attractions management has no plans when they close down an attraction. So they'll typically use it for storage space. But when entertainment uses it, at least SOMETHING is being done w/ it. I'd rather have a character meet than a wall.

No plans???? then why the heck did they close it????? I think most guests would rather have an attraction than either a wall or character meet. I'm not attacking you, it is just sad to see Disney keep closing attractions with no replacement. There are now 4 attractions < that I can think of > that have had NO replacement!!!!! Time Keeper, Keel Boats, 20K Leagues, and the Skyway. Yet, ticket prices keep going up.

[WDWJunkie]

Personally, I can't stand Character meet and greets. They take down good attractions just to place some characters, which are all over the park I'd like to add. They think that everyone visiting there park has a 2 or 3 year old kid who is crying to see these characters. I'm not bashing Disney or anything like that, but still, come on, you get rid of an attraction that people can enjoy just for someplace that a little kid can get a characters signature and stand next to them for a 3 second picture.:mad:

[johare]

No plans???? then why the heck did they close it????? So they can lay off all the employees who previously operated the attraction. It's much easier to pay one person minimum wage to stand there in a Pluto suit.

[mktiggerman]

The command to close an attraction does come from the executive level, but what to do with it is up to the local area management. If the local area management has nothing to do w/ it they'll just use it for storage (A perfect example, though not an attraction, is the Adventureland Veranda). However, if entertainment wants to take responsibility over that plot of land, they can, and they can do whatever they want w/ it (ie. Character Meet).

Also, FYI, WDW Management has no control over character meets, sicne they are under the responsibility of Walt Disney Entertainment.. not Walt Disney World.

[mktiggerman]

Originally posted by johare
So they can lay off all the employees who previously operated the attraction. It's much easier to pay one person minimum wage to stand there.

no... entertainment gets paid more than ops to start with (not more, but more). Factor in 2 characters, plus one greeter. That's 3 CM's. Timekeeper only takes 2 to operate. And those 2 probably made less than the entertainment CM's.

[johare]

no... entertainment gets paid more than ops to start with (not more, but more). Factor in 2 characters, plus one greeter. That's 3 CM's. Timekeeper only takes 2 to operate. And those 2 probably made less than the entertainment CM's.Not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that entertainment makes more because it takes more employees (at least in this one case) or that the hourly salary for an entertainment cast member is higher than a ride op. Not sure I feel to safe if the later is true. Regardless of salary, it does cost much more to keep an attraction maintained and running than it does to have a character meet and greet area...especially since usually the characters are not out there the entire time the park is open.

[MickeyMoose15]

They sometimes do have a plan to replace an attraction when they close it....look at Horizons or Take Flight.

[mktiggerman]

Originally posted by johare
Not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that entertainment makes more because it takes more employees (at least in this one case) or that the hourly salary for an entertainment cast member is higher than a ride op. Not sure I feel to safe if the later is true. Regardless of salary, it does cost much more to keep an attraction maintained and running than it does to have a character meet and greet area...especially since usually the characters are not out there the entire time the park is open.

Entertainment just gets paid more. Even though the AA aren't operated, the A/C and power still are.

[MickeyMoose15]

It seems that Walt Disney Company is really blaming management for the low attendance for not having a huge new E-Ticket attraction since 1999.

They are planning:
* Mickey's PhilharMagic for MK to replace Legend of the Lion King
* Reign of Fire at Disney's Animal Kingdom
* Mission: Space for Epcot
* A new 360 Canada film for Epcot
* Figment's Journey into Imagination for Epcot

Looking forward to the new attractions.

[johare]

They are planning:They are planning:
* Mickey's PhilharMagic for MK to replace Legend of the Lion King
* Reign of Fire at Disney's Animal Kingdom
* Mission: Space for Epcot
* A new 360 Canada film for Epcot
* Figment's Journey into Imagination for Epcot


Well, one of those is already in progress and I think if they follow thru with at least two more of them (Figment for sure!) they will be taking a big step in the right direction. All they need to do is hire a few friendship dock workers back and touch up some paint here and there and I'll move up to car #2. I'm planning on buying seasonal passes again for 2003 and really hope they come up with some great things by then.

[MickeyMoose15]

2003 will be the year to visit Epcot.

[nats]

The main reason Disney is losing money is because they are not taking care of maintenance the way they used to. Years back when you stood in line at the Magic Kingdom, air conditioning was being blown in and you could be comfortable. The parks are not as clean as they used to be. As a matter of fact while I was there last October, the Orlando Sentinel ran a story on this subject. On the front page they had a picture of Main Street and many lights were out on the buildings. This would never happened years ago. We need a cloning of Walt to bring the parks back to where they should be.
Another reason , as I said many times before, too many thrill attractions and not enough new family attractions

[nats]

Originally posted by nats
The main reason Disney is losing money is because they are not taking care of maintenance the way they used to. Years back when you stood in line at the Magic Kingdom, air conditioning was being blown in and you could be comfortable. The parks are not as clean as they used to be. As a matter of fact while I was there last October, the Orlando Sentinel ran a story on this subject. On the front page they had a picture of Main Street and many lights were out on the buildings. This would never happened years ago. We need a cloning of Walt to bring the parks back to where they should be.
Another reason , as I said many times before, too many thrill attractions and not enough new family attractions

[MickeyMoose15]

Maintanance may have something to do with it but the main reason may be that they have not had a major E-Ticket attraction since 1999. The next one will probly be Mission: Space in 2003. That is 4 whole years! The Magic Kingdom hasn't gotten a E-Ticket attraction since Splash Mountain in 1992. Animal Kingdom doesn't have a true E-Ticket attraction since DINOSAUR (former CTX) was toned down for the kiddies.

[johare]

The Magic Kingdom hasn't gotten a E-Ticket attraction since Splash Mountain in 1992. Animal Kingdom doesn't have a true E-Ticket attraction since DINOSAUR (former CTX) was toned down Isn't Alien Encounter considered an E-Ticket attraction? It is one of the attractions that's open on 'E-Ticket nights', though Buzz is also included in that group so maybe not? Also, what about Kali River Rapids. That seems like it would be an E also.

[MickeyMoose15]

Alien Encounter from what I have been told is close to an E-Ticket attraction but is not. It is a sensory thrill attraction much like HISTA. Its not an E-Ticket attraction maybe because it doesn't go anywhere.

[JeffH]

Note: the parks never have 'lost' money. This year their profits are down from last year (during the successful Millenium Celebration during a successful economy).
Since the Orlando Sentinel ran that article (and we discussed it here), things changed at WDW. The lights are kept up and the cleaners are evident. Let's hope they keep it up.
Considering that It's a Small World was an E attraction, I consider all the attractions (except Pocahantas and the Boneyard) E attractions at AK. But AK is incomplete and WDW must add BK ASAP.

[johare]

Alien Encounter from what I have been told is close to an E-Ticket attraction but is not. It is a sensory thrill attraction much like HISTA. Its not an E-Ticket attraction maybe because it doesn't go anywhere.I'm not sure an attraction has to go anywhere to be considered an 'E-Ticket'. I would consider Fantasmic to be an E-Ticket attraction as well as some of the shows at the studios. I think Disney decides what to call an E-Ticket and if it's open during 'E-Ticket' nights then it's an E-Ticket. And, if Small World is considered an E-Ticket as JeffH stated, then I think everything right down to the parking lot trams should be considered E-Ticket attractions. :)

[MickeyMoose15]

Fantasmic is not an E-Ticket attraction since it is a show and a night time show at that. Timekeeper was on E-Ticket Nights and they just closed it so I don't think that every ride opend during E-Ticket nights is and E-Ticket attraction

[JeffH]

Seems like we are defining E-ticket attraction differently.
From the 'classic' definition, not the e-ticket night ride definition...
I would agree with Johare here.
Even though Mission to Mars was a D attraction, the intensity (and horror) and additional elements of the show make it an E attraction.
And although they do possess their own kind of horror, the trams on the other hand I would consider a B attraction due to their speed (as compared to the A attractions, the main street transportation vehicles)

[johare]

Interesting...since there is no longer such thing as an 'E-Ticket', I wonder if Disney still keeps track somewhere of what they consider to be 'E-Ticket' attractions.

[swinginevilmike]

They don't talk to cast members about anything till about a week or a couple of days before it is official.

I just like to say that this is false. They tell us what's going on ..problem is some CM's don't read new memo's or Eyes and Ears or anything...The info is there you just have to look...

[space42]

I agree that a show could be an E-Ticket. E-Ticket just means "best of the best attractions" Most elaborate, etc. <and I suppose shows could qualify too>
Look at what the Magic Kingdom has for E-Tickets (Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, Pirates, Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, Thunder Mountain, Alien Encounter, Small World)
What is nice is that allot of these attractions can be enjoyed by the entire family TOGETHER!

I'm just waiting for WDI to again design something on the scope of Splash Mountain. I am looking forward to the next 10-15 minute long E-Ticket! With the current trend I don't see that happening very soon. On that Jim Hill Thread, I do not believe any of the new "rumored" attractions fit this bill. Look at EPCOT, they are slowly taking away all of the Family E-tickets and replacing them with either Thrill Rides <Test Track, Space> or Junk <JIYI>.




.02

Jerry

[Sarangel]

Boy, I stop watching the boards for a weekend to get married & you guys start fighting. I've deleted a number of posts from this thread that were considerably less than civil & I'm closing it since it has wandered *way* off topic. If you'd like to continue the discussion about what constitutes an e-ticket, please start a new thread.

Sarangel