NY Times today -- "WDW Magic is Slipping"

[Mainebound]

Anyone see this? The boards at WDW info.com are mentioned. Guess the reporter is a DIS-er. This article hits all of the usual complaints. What do y'all think???

Anyone can access it free if you are registered with NYT, at

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/travel/31disney.html?

July 31, 2005
Some Ask if the Disney Magic Is Slipping
By CHARLES PASSY

MAYBE it was the rollaway bed that didn't materialize because it was suddenly deemed a fire hazard.

Or maybe it was the air mattress that surfaced in its place with a pile of bedding that included 20 - yes, 20 - pillowcases and one sheet.

Or maybe it was the manager who called and apologized for the mistakes - at nearly 1 a.m.

But as tipping points go, it was hard to top the bill with a $750 error - in the resort's favor. Such a mistake was proof positive that something was terribly amiss, leaving my wife and me to ask, "What kind of a Mickey Mouse operation is this?"

It was a question meant in the most literal sense. We weren't staying at some budget motel off the Interstate. We were spending more than $300 a night for a one-bedroom "turn-of-the-century style vacation villa" at Walt Disney World's one-year-old Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa. But we were experiencing little of the celebrated Disney "magic," that bend-over-backward brand of service. Instead, our family vacation was turning into a part-nightmarish, part-comical adventure that I quickly took to describing as Disney meets "Fawlty Towers" meets the "Twilight Zone."

And apparently, we weren't the only ones on this ride. To hear some other guests tell similar stories of inept service at Disney World theme parks and resorts is to realize the Mouse may no longer be as mighty.

As Disney marks the 50th birthday of its first theme park - Disneyland in California - with a companywide 18-month celebration that began in May, it is facing great scrutiny, particularly when it comes to Walt Disney World - a 30,000-plus-acre complex in Florida that comprises four theme parks and more than 20 resorts and that attracted 40.5 million visitors in 2004, according to the trade journal Amusement Business.

Much of the focus stems from the recent corporate shakeup that ended with the decision by Michael D. Eisner, the longtime chief executive, to resign effective this September. (He is being replaced by Disney's president, Robert A. Iger.) It's a tale of boardroom intrigue that inspired James B. Stewart's "Disney War," published this year. At the heart of the drama is the question of whether Disney has put profits ahead of the need to deliver that "magic," especially at the parks and resorts.

The issue has been raised repeatedly by Roy E. Disney (Walt's nephew), former Disney board member and executive. In "Disney War," he is quoted telling a group of investors, "If you've been [to the parks] in recent years, you will have noticed the lack of maintenance, the fewer number of characters on the streets. The cast members ... have been pared back unmercifully. Their hours have been cut, benefits taken away. That gets reflected in their attitude toward the guests." (Mr. Disney declined comment for this article, although he recently came to an agreement with Disney's board and management to withdraw a lawsuit challenging the selection process behind Mr. Iger's appointment.)

It is also an issue that arose in an article in The Orlando Sentinel, published in March 2004, about its investigation of maintenance at Disney World's Magic Kingdom. The paper reported that "flaws included worn walkways and steps, rotting wood, scratched and chipped stucco, peeling paint, rusted railings, faded awnings and yellowing plants."

The issue seems to resonate with Disney guests. On such Web sites as WDWInfo.com and MiceAge.com, they debate matters ranging from the company's attention to ride safety (in the wake of recent scares connected to such attractions as Mission: Space at the Epcot park and the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror at Disney-MGM Studios, including the death of a 4-year-old boy after riding Mission: Space) to the wait times for Disney buses. There appears to be a growing view that the Mouse no longer delivers at the same magical level.

While not denying that problems occur, Disney officials say their commitment to customer service remains strong, as evidenced by the fact that 75 percent of Disney World visitors are repeat guests. "Our goal in life is to get excellent ratings," said Lee Cockerell, executive vice president for operations at Disney World. "We try to move the 'goods' up to 'very goods' and the 'very goods' up to 'excellents.' "

But in Beth Motta's case, she'd be hard pressed to give Disney a "fair." Ms. Motta, a Cleveland-area nursing student, traveled with her husband and four children for a six-day stay at Disney World's All-Star Music Resort this spring. Despite assurances from Disney staff members that she could have connecting rooms - a must since one of her children is disabled - Ms. Motta says she was told otherwise when she arrived. "I sat in the lobby and cried," she recalled.

Even more disconcerting are reports that Disney is slow or unwilling to respond to complaints. In Ms. Motta's case, she says she had the problem corrected after much haggling, but the "solution" meant staying in a more remote location at the resort and sharing a building with a group of noisy teenagers. She did receive a credit of $120 - on a $1,300 bill - but it wasn't offered until she contacted the guest communications department upon her return home.

I hit a similar wall of unresponsiveness with managers at the Saratoga Springs resort: I had to argue my way into an upgrade that provided the very sleeping arrangements I was guaranteed. After more problems ensued, I received $100 in credit - far less than the refund for a full-night's stay that hospitality-industry experts I interviewed say was merited. And there barely seemed to be acknowledgment that the resort was still under construction. (When I returned home, I called a higher-level manager - without revealing that I was a journalist - and she agreed to refund my entire stay.)

Such stories prompt some observers of Disney operations to say the situation reflects a demoralized, improperly trained staff. "There's a palpable difference in the attitudes of cast members versus five years ago. There are fewer smiles there," said Pete Werner, the founder and Webmaster of WDWInfo.com.

Disney executives vehemently deny such charges. In an opinion column responding to the article in The Orlando Sentinel, Disney World's president, Al Weiss, noted a 90 percent approval rating from guests when it comes to upkeep and cleanliness at the Magic Kingdom.

And in a recent interview, Mr. Cockerell said that Disney World's staff was at an all-time high of 57,000, though the number can fluctuate depending on the season. And while he conceded that Disney's "traditions" employee-orientation program has been pared back to one day from two days, he argued that it was because Disney had focused on other training methods. As for resolving guests' complaints, Mr. Cockerell insists that managers are empowered to offer whatever is appropriate to rectify the situation.

And what about my problem-riddled visit? "Your stay was not typical," Mr. Cockerell said.

Still, Mr. Cockerell allows that mistakes do happen, given the sheer size of Disney World's operations. But the real reason some guests walk away disappointed, Mr. Cockerell suspects, is that they arrive with such high expectations. "Walt Disney World is like a national park," he said. "If something doesn't go right, I get a seven-page letter."

IN a sense, that may be Disney's own doing. Since the company's first venture into the theme-park business a half-century ago, it has maintained that it wants to create an immaculate escape-from-the-real-world environment. Disneyland grew out of Walt Disney's disappointing experiences with his own children at amusement parks. "You could have fantastic rides, but if the place was sloppy or you had to wait for toilets [it wouldn't work]. For him, it had to be beautiful," said Diane Disney Miller, Walt's daughter, in the Summer 2005 issue of Disney Magazine. (That issue of the decades-old magazine was the last to hit the stands. It ceased publication because of the company's bottom-line concerns.)

But another part of the equation, say observers like Deb Wills, founder of AllEarsNet.com, another unofficial Disney site, is that Disney guests have come to anticipate "magic moments" at, well, every moment. "People hear so many wonderful things they think it's going to be picture perfect," she said. Take the famed "towel animals" - towels that have been shaped to resemble wildlife - that Disney maids have been known to leave in a guest's room. What started as a surprise offering has now become a de rigueur part of the Disney experience.

But for most guests, the experience comes close to the quintessential family vacation. Take Vicki Moreno, a San Antonio homemaker who has been a Disney World regular since 1991. Her ultimate "magic moment" came a few weeks ago at a character autograph-signing opportunity at Epcot. When one of her daughters realized she had lost her autograph book, a Disney staff member arranged a free replacement and a private character meet-and-greet. Ms. Moreno's reaction? "I thought, 'Wow!' " she said.

And that's the funny thing: Despite all the problems with my stay, there were plenty of "wows," too. Like the time the chef at the Polynesian Resort prepared a special fruit platter for my food-allergic 13-year-old son. Or the time a security guard at Epcot, sensing my 6-year-old daughter's impatience as we waited in the bag-search line, took off his cap and placed it affectionately on her head.

Then, there's the "wow" I experience every time I enter the Magic Kingdom. Seeing the cobblestone streets and the rows of old-timey shops, I can't help but buy into the fantasy that is Walt Disney's Main Street, designed after the one in his boyhood home of Marceline, Mo. Some might call it synthetic, but that's missing the point: It never pretends to be real.

And that's perhaps why when Disney stumbles, we respond so vociferously. If we wanted the headaches and hassles, we'd stay at the budget motel off the Interstate. Instead, we want the magic. And we'll keep going to Disney World in search of it - for the time being.

[Lizardbeth61]

At first I was outraged, but then the article ends on a very positive note. The problem is that there are many out there so ready to flame the Disney experience, that after reading the first few paragraphs, these non-fans will feel justified in their feelings and others "not in the know" will be swayed . . . and the Mouse gets a bad rep even though the reporter gets it in the end. Even the title of the article is misleading!

So, Mr. Werner . . . were you quoted out of context?

Some or all of the complaints are valid to a point, only because nothing IS perfect, but in the end, even the author concedes that it is a magical experience . . . even if he feels it's in danger of becoming "unmagical." But the first rule of writing is to put the thesis in the first paragraph . . . and I fear many will never read the true point of the article.

That's my opinion!

[mac3013]

I couldn't agree with you more.

I have been to WDW a few times and never, and I mean never have I had any problems. The CMs were always accomodating and very nice, well except for the one monorail driver this year. She was a little snappy, we were sitting in the front with her and she was very cold to us. But the next time we sat up front we got a fantastic driver who talked to us the whole time and then even gave DS the Co-Pilot cards.

The rooms have always been neat and clean upon check in and have always been ready when we got there.

We have had any issues with shipping merchandise home, this time there were a couple of things that were damaged but I was able to contact Disney and they told me to ship them right back and they would get the replacements out to me.

you are correct in saying that most people won't fully read the article. If I wasn't such a big Disney fan I wouldn't have read all the way through.

I would also like to know if Mr. Werner was quoted out of context.

:love: :love: :love: DISNEY!!!!!

[pyrxtc]

Who else thinks that some of the extra's (like towel animals) will disappear when too many people start asking for them.

[Lizardbeth61]

that I've never had Disney be unresponsive, but I can see that that may happen from time to time.

About Disney not really caring . . . perhaps the author is right in suggesting the expectations are extremely high and there comes a point where they'll appear that they don't care . . . because of extraordinary expectations. However, when you compare Disney to ANY other "theme park," IMHO it's the tops and no one even comes close to better taking care of its guests. Sure, there are places with bigger thrill rides, but there is no other amusement park in the world that makes me feel like I'm part of it to the extent that anything Disney does. Please don't take this as a personal attack jovidan . . . just MHO,

[2x_dis_dad]

We go to WDW several times a year. I grew up in Florida, and went several times growing up. I think people tend to think it is going to be a greater experience than it is. I have never been disappointed so much that I complained. I go with the mindset that I am going to a theme park and I am going to eat out a lot and ride rides. I don't think that if Snow White doesnt come tuck me in at night, then it wasn't a magical vacation. I go to WDW because it is an easy vacation with small children. We only go during the value season so that the weather is more moderate and the crowds are far lower. We have a great trip each and every time because we don't have such high expectations.

[disneymom727]

I'd be curious to know what time of year the author went to WDW. I think in the height of peak season there are bound to be more problems than usual. Disney sees so many people each day. I'm sure you can't please everyone. Everyone wants their vacation to be perfect and it is hard to remember you are not the only one there for this quest. I realize that is not a consolation when you shell out so much money, just something I thought about as I read this article. I never knew about some of the "above & beyond" things Disney does (i.e. towel animals) until I saw it posted here. Now I would love that for my son but I won't expect it. Sometimes the "magic" of Disney gets lost on our expectations. I love WDW and will continue going "yellowing plants" and all!!!

[poohj80]

I hit a similar wall of unresponsiveness with managers at the Saratoga Springs resort: I had to argue my way into an upgrade that provided the very sleeping arrangements I was guaranteed.
What rubs me the wrong way about this article is that the author makes statements like above without mentioning exactly what he was guaranteed and who guaranteed it. My guess is he put in a "request" and then was disappointed when it wasn't granted. Other than the type of room reserved, I don't know what else could be guaranteed at SSR.

[disneymom225]

I was wondering about the "magical moments" the other day and the increase in Disney related websites. Now that so many people want to wake up TInkerbell, look forward to towel animals or any of the other numerous things that have been described-do we expect that service all the time and are disappointed when we don't get it? I remember on one of my 1st trips to WDW and we got to ride in the front of the monorail a lot--there was rarely anyone else who asked to do it. On my last trip (honeymoon!) we never got to ride because so many people were asking to do it. But, we also had several times where our table was decorated w/ confetti and our desserts said "Congratulations" in chocolate b/c it was our honeymoon. So are people disappointed b/c not every moment is perfect? I love Disney WOrld and just bought into SSR-I've been there too many times to count and I have NEVER had a bad experience w/ a cast member. I have also had some problems--our room rate was quoted at one price and 2 days later we received another "confirmation" at a much higher rate. The higher rate was actually the correct one but I wasn't sure-so I called to find the information. WHen I mentioned (MENTIONED! Not argued or demanded) that we might have to stay less time and cut our honeymoon short b/c the difference was so big-the manager gave me the lower price. He didn't have to! The paperwork I had originally received was an estimate based on previous year's rate but he did b/c he wanted us to have a "magical honeymoon". So we were able to stay for the whole time (and probably spent tons more anyway!). I think I got off topic but my point is-yes, people have problems w/ WDW and DIsney-but I think our expections have gotten so much higher. Just my 2 cents.

[alohaguy]

There are three other threads on this issue in the Rumors and News section of this forum... I would bet this thread will be moved soon.

For what it's worth ... here's my opinion... from someone that has been to WDW over 30 times and counting over the span of three decades, I feel service has slipped noticeably in the last 5 to 10 years. While the towel animal issue has become ridiculous, what I notice are basic service issues that have become a problem - mousekeeping, bell services, check-in, CRO information, etc. I could go on with specifics, but what's the point.

I think the article was 'dead-on' and balanced. Disney needs to address the flaws that have become noticeable to the public since they have decided to cut back on CM numbers and training. Just my opinion ... but I think many share it.

[ryanmilla]

I read the article as well and the beginning part is misleading. I believe it is hard when you are #1. Everyone is looking for faults and ready to pounce on them and exploit them when they find them. Personally, I have never had a bad time or experience at WDW throughout all of the times I have been there. I understand that sometimes things go bad, but I usually try to give WDW the benefit of the doubt. I can't believe they are out there strategically trying to ruin our trips. Or to strip that extra dollar from us after they have already taken our park entrance fees, concession fees, and accomodation fees. They are doing well enough the way they have it now. So, my opinion is a mistake is a mistake. I'll try and correct it and get assistance with it, but I WON'T let it ruin my vacation.

[Mainebound]

[QUOTE=alohaguy]There are three other threads on this issue in the Rumors and News section of this forum... I would bet this thread will be moved soon.

QUOTE]


Do'h!!!! I just realized that the article was published Sunday, not today, and then immediately realized that I would certainll NOT be the first to post about it. Thanks for letting us know about the other threads. Probably this should join them, although it does have a lot to do with the parks...

Sorry!!!!!! Promise to FINISH my coffee before posting in the future! It's just not safe before then.

[Fargoman2]

1. The author of the article initially appears to be on a crusade to bury Disney--using his power as a journalist-- as a way to score personal revenge for his own negative experience at the World. Strangely, by article's end, he seems to have a bit of writer's remorse--qualifying that despite problems the World is still a magical place.

2. To contend that "the magic is slipping" requires more than a handful of anecdotal reports of shoddy treatment or park mismanagement, especially when you consider that more than 40 million visit the park a year. Show me some comprehensive research.

3. Having noted #2, I would tend to agree to a certain degree that the magic has slipped a little. Again, I'm basing this solely on my personal experience-which is 5 consecutive summer visits. On our last visit just a week ago, I found more cast members who were running a little short on patience (and smiles) for guests. Maybe it was the heat? Of course, keep in mind these cast members deal all day long with demanding--at times grossly unreasonable--visitors.

4. If the magic has slipped a little, who's to blame? Disney execs? They definitely shoulder most of it to be sure. Cast members may indeed be justified for having burnout from understaffing and overworking issues. I have no doubts that could be a very real problem at Disney. But just let me throw this out there--you also have to look at the mindset and attitudes of certain employees. Employee expectations for what "work" is supposed to be like are changing rapidly. Many folks entering the workforce today come with a huge sense of entitlement and a serious lack of patience for working their way up the ladder. Everyone wants the new house, triple garage and boat NOW. Thus, dissatisfaction with one's job can surface rather rapidly. Please don't misunderstand me--I'm not suggesting Disney Cast members should be lumped into this group. Most I've dealt with are professional and pleasant. In fact, I visited with two cast members during my recent trip who were very pleased with their working conditions and they lauded Disney for taking such great care of its employees. Bottom line: management decisions or inattentiveness to employee needs can surely be blamed for "magic slippage"--but when you have 57,000 employees--you're going to have at least a few who are simply malcontents who will never be satisfied.

5. WDW is still the most magical place in the world for our family-period.

[Harambe]

[QUOTE=alohaguy]There are three other threads on this issue in the Rumors and News section of this forum... I would bet this thread will be moved soon.

QUOTE]


Do'h!!!! I just realized that the article was published Sunday, not today, and then immediately realized that I would certainll NOT be the first to post about it. Thanks for letting us know about the other threads. Probably this should join them, although it does have a lot to do with the parks...

Sorry!!!!!! Promise to FINISH my coffee before posting in the future! It's just not safe before then.

Not to worry, Mainebound! There are a lot of us DISers that don't read all the boards, so if you didn't post here, I wouldn't have seen it.

I love Disney, and find myself strangely defensive of it, even though I see a few slips here and there, I don't focus all my energy on them. Even if I don't get a towel animal (like the lion I got at the Fireside Inn in Auburn, right off the Maine Turnpike! LOL!), I still enjoy the magic with my kids and husband.

[alohaguy]

Mainebound -

I first posted a new thread about this artice on Tuesday, in the Resorts section, and it was moved. Personally, I think the discussion should take place in the Theme Parks section and the Resorts section, since the article is about service at WDW. I think more people would voice their opinions if the topic was left in these categories.

Fargoman2 -

I find it difficult to follow the assumption that Charles Passy is on a 'crusade' to bury Disney by writing this article. I don't think it's quite fair to assume that an otherwise professional journalist would use his position at a high-profile newspaper to turn some gripes about his personal vacation into a feeble attempt to somehow satiate his desire for revenge?!? Doesn't add up to me. He himself wrote - in this forum - that he went to Saratoga Springs to cover the resort because it was new, but after having such a trying experience with service, he decided the real story lay in this very issue.

I know many feel somehow personally offended when anything negative is said about Disney ... and believe me, I love the place, that's why my family has been back so many times ... I just sense a definite need to address some service issues, particularly at the resorts ... and I hope this article causes some execs at Disney to do some thinking. Just my opinion.

[taximomfor4]

i responded in another thread about this. Yes, I talked to the reporter at great length. Got his entire story end to end. He didn't request the extra bed, he told CRO what his family size was and they booked him the "appropriate" accomodations, including a rollaway. At checkin is when he discovered a rollaway is not allowed.

I was Ms. Motta in the story. My thread on the Trip Reports board is called ASMu woes. There were many stories submitted to the reporter, I was notified as my story made each cut. My story is not quite what it appeared in the article, in fact in my opinion the article makes me sound sort of over-expectant. Or that my complaints were minimal. Anyone who checks my original thread can get the WHOLE story. WHich is continuing, not well I might add... a week before we give WDW another chance. I am kind of worried but intend, if things go badly at the resort, to demand to be released from my ressie to find accomodations offsite. Gotta make my own magic, you know!

Anyway, I don't know of customer service at WDW has taken a turn for the worse. Our first family trip ever was just over Easter (ASMu woes, of course). So I have no previous service to compare. But I can say that guest expecatations are not always the problem.

Have a great day everyone, wish me P &PD for my trip... the reservations have already been a complete mess, just hoping it is TRULY all fixed now!

Beth

[WaltD4Me]

perhaps the author is right in suggesting the expectations are extremely high and there comes a point where they'll appear that they don't care . . . because of extraordinary expectations. However, when you compare Disney to ANY other "theme park," IMHO it's the tops and no one even comes close to better taking care of its guests. Sure, there are places with bigger thrill rides, but there is no other amusement park in the world that makes me feel like I'm part of it to the extent that anything Disney does.

Very well said! I couldn't agree more!

I think the internet has changed things greatly also. People except more, because they know more. They hear more stories, read more information, know more "secrets" (such as the Waking up Tink thing and riding in front of the monorail) -- obviously if everyone does it, or wants to do it, it isn't quite as special anymore (especially if people are fighting over it)

Also don't forget, the typical Disney guest has changed too. The era of "the customer is always right" is over. Too many people take advantage of, or try to take advantage of that old adage. I'm sure there are many legitimate problems or complaints, but can you imagine how many aren't? We don't hear about those here nearly as much. People who demand a free room because they didn't the get extra towels they requested or people who insist on getting their admission price back because it rained?
Not only do people expect more, but they DEMAND more (and from what I've seen, not in a very nice way)

[Hodder]

Very well said! I couldn't agree more!

I think the internet has changed things greatly also. People except more, because they know more. They hear more stories, read more information, know more "secrets" (such as the Waking up Tink thing and riding in front of the monorail) -- obviously if everyone does it, or wants to do it, it isn't quite as special anymore (especially if people are fighting over it)

Also don't forget, the typical Disney guest has changed too. The era of "the customer is always right" is over. Too many people take advantage of, or try to take advantage of that old adage. I'm sure there are many legitimate problems or complaints, but can you imagine how many aren't? We don't hear about those here nearly as much. People who demand a free room because they didn't the get extra towels they requested or people who insist on getting their admission price back because it rained?
Not only do people expect more, but they DEMAND more (and from what I've seen, not in a very nice way)


I definately agree. People are demanding more because they believe the customer is always right. I never believed this saying and never will. The customer who yells, screams, and curses at the employee is not right and is being abusive.

I remember a sales clerk who was trying to help me, when I came out of the dressing room with my things she was still smiling but had tears in her eyes, when I asked her if she was ok she told me she just had a customer who had wanted to return something that wasn't returnable. The customer yelled at her that she hopes she looses her job and called her a few names. I told the sales girl don't let it get to her, that woman has an unhappy life and is a miserable person. When I worked at a clothing store the owner had told me that anyone that gets abusive must leave, they are on private property and that if I felt threatened to call the police and press charges.

[alohaguy]

It seems to me that there are two types of people who have complaints about Disney service:

1 - People who have gleaned the majority of their information - and 'expectations' - from the internet, or other media sources. These are people who will potentially go on a tirade about 'missing' towel animals, or some other 'magical' experience they have read tales about on websites. These are certainly situations that revolve around unrealistic expectations, and are not reflective of 'true' service problems. I think this group of people tends to get mentioned quite often when any service issues are raised.

2 - People who actually know from experience (many trips to WDW) what is realistic to expect and not expect. These are people who have traveled to WDW, and other destinations, often, and expect a reasonable level of service for the money they are spending on a hotel room. These are people who couldn't care less about towel animals (or at least realize them for what they are - a sporadic occurance) and are more interested in clean rooms, prompt bell services, correct reservations, correct billing, courteous front desk staff, etc., etc., etc. These are people who notice the basics of customer service and have the proper perspective to judge when service has slipped, or is below what they feel it should be. I think complaints from this group have risen - and I consider myself one of them.

The NYTimes article contained complaints that, I believe, fall solely into the second category. Basic service issues were raised, and I believe it is in these basic services that WDW has slipped. I keep returning despite the service, not because of it, and I wish that would change. I expect for billing errors (of which I've had two whoppers), reservation errors, housekeeping issues, less-than-friendly CM's ... but I wish it were different - and it used to be, in my opinion. What disappoints me most is that I can't honestly say that Disney leads the way in customer service anymore - five years ago, I think I still would have. My only hope is that it doesn't slip any further.

[charlespbg]

It's interesting to read all these comments...

As I said on a previous message board, I indeed went to SSR to write a very short story on the resort. It was only so many things got botched -- including plenty of stuff I didn't have room to mention in the story -- that I began to see a larger pattern. And I connected the dots with what Roy Disney had been saying about service at the company. (If you haven't read "Disney War," it's an eye-opener.) I also knew about the Orlando Sentinel's piece that looked at maintenance issues at Magic Kingdom.

Honestly, I went in with no "agenda." As I stated in article, I'm a big Disney fan. But what I experienced at SSR (we also had a problem with a breakfast outside the resort) was so out-of-line with my previous Disney visits. (I live in South Florida and go to the parks quite frequently -- we usually have annual passes.) In fact, I'd say the service level at SSR was about the worst I encountered at ANY resort anywhere -- in two decades of travel.

And TaxiMom, I apologize for not being able to include all the details of your story -- it was one of the most compelling I heard. Everything unfortunately has to get trimmed for space.

[alohaguy]

Charles -

I think your observations were completely valid and well couched. I hope a copy of your article was in the inboxes of many Disney execs on Monday morning.

[jann1033]

our first trip to wdw was over 20 yrs ago, our last Jan 04....things have definitly changed for the worse.crabby CMs were basically unheard of, the food was worse and the parks immaculate our first trip. now the food is better, the cms more harried and less responsive to a smile and the parks while not really dirty not in the out of this world fantastic shape they were in before. not that i don't love going but it defintely is not the same...and we have had a few bad experiences over the years that were not taken care of ( maybe if i had pursued them more ferociously they would have but since i was on vacation it didn't want to take up days doing it,,,i did pursue them to the point where they should have been corrected)

i think some people on these boards expect way way way to much but also think wdw ain't what it used to be imo

[taximomfor4]

And TaxiMom, I apologize for not being able to include all the details of your story -- it was one of the most compelling I heard. Everything unfortunately has to get trimmed for space.

Hey, no problem...completely understood. Just wanted to make sure fellow DISers knew that my story, and yours as well, were more than the blurbs that fit into a newspaper article! I am actually happy that my story was included, and made sure my name was spelled correctly. Because at this point, I am quite unimpressed with the followthrough I was promised "if only" I would give WDW, and specifically All star Resorts another chance.

So thanks again for talking with me, listening to my story, and checking back on this board!!


Beth

[CPer'sMom]

It seems to me that there are two types of people who have complaints about Disney service:


2 - People who actually know from experience (many trips to WDW) what is realistic to expect and not expect. These are people who have traveled to WDW, and other destinations, often, and expect a reasonable level of service for the money they are spending on a hotel room. These are people who couldn't care less about towel animals (or at least realize them for what they are - a sporadic occurance) and are more interested in clean rooms, prompt bell services, correct reservations, correct billing, courteous front desk staff, etc., etc., etc. These are people who notice the basics of customer service and have the proper perspective to judge when service has slipped, or is below what they feel it should be. I think complaints from this group have risen - and I consider myself one of them.

The NYTimes article contained complaints that, I believe, fall solely into the second category. Basic service issues were raised, and I believe it is in these basic services that WDW has slipped. I keep returning despite the service, not because of it, and I wish that would change. I expect for billing errors (of which I've had two whoppers), reservation errors, housekeeping issues, less-than-friendly CM's ... but I wish it were different - and it used to be, in my opinion. What disappoints me most is that I can't honestly say that Disney leads the way in customer service anymore - five years ago, I think I still would have. My only hope is that it doesn't slip any further.

Very well said ~ I totally agree. We are very frequent WDW visitors and my daughter just finished the college program at Epcot. I can definitely tell that the level of customer service (and just plain courtesy in some cases) have declined at Disney over the past few years. From discussions with CMs we know and my own daughters' experience this lack of "caring" is trickling down from the way that Disney is treating their employees.

We just returned from a trip to CSR ~ based on our stay & the problems we had (with "management" among others) we won't be returning to that particular resort. We always stay at Disney resorts when we visit so I do have the correct basis for comparison ~~

We have always loved and looked forward to our Disney trips. I, too, hope that this Disney decline doesn't continue to get worse.

[Hodder]

It's interesting to read all these comments...

As I said on a previous message board, I indeed went to SSR to write a very short story on the resort. It was only so many things got botched -- including plenty of stuff I didn't have room to mention in the story -- that I began to see a larger pattern. And I connected the dots with what Roy Disney had been saying about service at the company. (If you haven't read "Disney War," it's an eye-opener.) I also knew about the Orlando Sentinel's piece that looked at maintenance issues at Magic Kingdom.

Honestly, I went in with no "agenda." As I stated in article, I'm a big Disney fan. But what I experienced at SSR (we also had a problem with a breakfast outside the resort) was so out-of-line with my previous Disney visits. (I live in South Florida and go to the parks quite frequently -- we usually have annual passes.) In fact, I'd say the service level at SSR was about the worst I encountered at ANY resort anywhere -- in two decades of travel.

And TaxiMom, I apologize for not being able to include all the details of your story -- it was one of the most compelling I heard. Everything unfortunately has to get trimmed for space.


I had no problem with your article, you stated what had happened to you as well as that you did have many "wows". I recently wrote a letter to the local Better Business Bureau regarding customer service (wish I could write an article in our paper about it). I am going to Disney regardless what anyone else thinks of the service, food, CM and so on, everyone has different experiences and the write to talk/write about them.

[jann1033]

Very well said! I couldn't agree more!

Too many people take advantage of, or try to take advantage of that old adage. I'm sure there are many legitimate problems or complaints, but can you imagine how many aren't? We don't hear about those here nearly as much. People who demand a free room because they didn't the get extra towels they requested or people who insist on getting their admission price back because it rained?
Not only do people expect more, but they DEMAND more (and from what I've seen, not in a very nice way)

while i agree that might be a problem....my own personal experience was not that. i asked for nothing ( no upgrade,no money ect) but to have a few problems addressed and nothing was done about any of them..one including a cm who totally messed up our reservations then swore at me( i don't swear nor was i rude ) and hung up on me was finally addressed weeks later (after i wrote a letter and called and called and called) with a "too bad it happened" but not an "apology" call. after of course i spent tons of money on long distance calls due to 20 mins each time of listening to what ever disney song was playing at the time before i got to talk to someone who usually could not or would not do anything about anything, including the mess my ressies were in. I wonder how many people start off with a valid complaint and peaceful spirit but after getting the run around forever turn into the demanding creeps you allege they start out. disney's customer service is not good, far too much misinformation from cms and mistakes that are not rectified.

[WaltD4Me]

You know, I also find it interesting that many people who I've heard complain that Disney is not "perfect" are also the same people who claim it is too expensive. That always makes me laugh. The people who want extremely happy, cheery CM's and plenty of them and immaculate, not a scrap of paper on the ground parks, also want it to be cheap to go there.

I know the cost isn't really mentioned in the article, but my point is, people want more for less.

A one day, one park admission is $58 and a one day admission to Cedar Point is $48. In comparison, well,...there is no comparison! I'd pick Disney any day. I mean, believe me, if there is a sudden rainstorm at Cedar Point, you don't see workers immediately rushing out to squeegee the sidewalks and wipe down the benches and even the tops of garbage cans like I saw at Disney and if you want surly workers, go to Cedar Point. :rolleyes:

So even if a case can be made for some slipping at Disney, they are still SO far above the rest, it would take a major fall...just not a little slipping...for them to be in the same category with most amusement/theme parks.

[Weegl]

Not to pile on here, but...

My family and I have been coming to WDW regularly ever since it opened (I was 8 then). Bottom line is that things have changed, some for the better, some unfortunately for the worse.

We have, and will always, enjoy WDW for the magic and joy it delivers to us. But there is no question that service has changed for the worse, and frankly, the type of customer and their expectations have changed for the worse also. I've seen some pretty unattractive attitudes from the many visitors over the years, and it seems to increase with each passing visit.

Our world has changed and it is full of unrealistic expectations and skepticism. Unfortunately, it has also invaded our "escapes" to places like WDW.

I wish it could be turned around, but I'm not sure that's possible.

[alohaguy]

You know, I also find it interesting that many people who I've heard complain that Disney is not "perfect" are also the same people who claim it is too expensive. .

I don't think that anyone who has reached adulthood genuinely expects WDW to be 'perfect' - or anything else for that matter. I think that many have come to expect superior service at WDW over the years, and now find that that service has slipped back to the rest of the pack. This leads to disappointment, in my opinion.

Is WDW 'better' than any other theme park out there today - that's still a matter of opinion, but I would say absolutely it is. That doesn't mean there's room for service to take a tumble - eventually those who so veraciously defend WDW at all costs will have poor service experiences as well, and this issue will become even larger. For those of us who love WDW, and have for decades, let's hope service improves.

[AlanH]

The role that hourly CM and first line managers play in the guest experience (for good or bad) at WDW can not be overstated. My wife is a part time hourly CM in merchandising and was full time. While I was searching for a job in Central Florida I also was a part time hourly CM in merchandising.

I believe over the last 50 years our society has changed for the worse in the treatment of hourly workers. Sadly, Disney has been affected by these societal and economic changes.

The widening dispartity in pay between hourly and salaried workers has been well documented. I remember when growing up that many hourly workers in the retail business (such as grocery stores) received competitive enough pay (and retirement benefits) to make a career in their jobs. Sadly these days are over.

This is reflected at Disney in that hourly workers work under a two tier wage system. I understand that the grandfathered hourly workers with a higher hourly rate do not get pay raises but they do get "bonuses". Newer workers get lower wages. In the last union negotiations, Disney wanted to eliminate the Pension Plan for new workers.

Disney has also pushed to fill a higher proportion of the hours worked with part time CMs as a move to cut costs. While there are exceptions, I believe that in general part time CMs are less "engaged" than full time CMs.

This is also reflected in the Training. Traditions used to be a 5 day event. When my wife and I started it was 2 days. Now I understand it is one.

There also does not seem to be enough training and support for first line managers. The quality of first line managers is very uneven. Many first line managers just do not make hourly CMs feel valued or appreciated. This has a great effect on the morale of hourly CMs. On the other hand there are also many first line managers that are terrific; however, I would say most of these have been with Disney for a number of years.

Basically, my feeling is the highest levels of management (Eisner?) instituted policies to improve the bottom line for the short term without considering the long term. Since I have spent my career in human resources, I was able to share my concerns with management. Many of these people were sympathetic and aware of the problems. I would say that even people at the highest levels of management at WDW felt their hands were tied by Burbank. I hope that Bob Iger will be able to change direction at the highest levels and this will enable management at WDW to do what they know in their hearts is best for the long term success of WDW.

I will say that people in Human Resources at WDW work very hard to preserve the magic in spite of the constraints placed on them. There have been many WDW wide gestures that my wife and I as cast members appreciated such as the "job fairs", holiday gifts and the hurricane pin.

My wife Carol and I are big fans of Disney and WDW. It is one of the reasons we moved to Central Florida. We recently became DVC members. Believe me, we wish nothing more than the long term success of WDW.

[yoopermom]

Just back from a 12 day stay. Since DS10 has become a thrill seeker, I spend a LOT of time waiting for him outside of attractions, and so try to start up conversations with as many CMs as I can. This visit I noticed a lot of sadness and frustration in my discussions with them. Most really did seem to be doing their best, but were overwhelmed by things beyond their control. I was amazed at how many drive over an hour (or more) to get to work at WDW, because of the price of local housing. Also spoke to a bus driver who said that she's moved up fifty positions in the seniority ladder after being there less than a year due to turnover, frustration with shortness of shifts, etc. I have a great deal of respect for 99.9% of CMs, and feel that those higher-up need to be held responsible for any perceived shortcomings.
Terri

[alohaguy]

Basically, my feeling is the highest levels of management (Eisner?) instituted policies to improve the bottom line for the short term without considering the long term. Since I have spent my career in human resources, I was able to share my concerns with management. Many of these people were sympathetic and aware of the problems. I would say that even people at the highest levels of management at WDW felt their hands were tied by Burbank. I hope that Bob Iger will be able to change direction at the highest levels and this will enable management at WDW to do what they know in their hearts is best for the long term success of WDW.

.


This, I believe, is the heart of the issue - and well stated. Another reason why I hope the NYTimes article has an impact on Disney execs.

[UkJamesF]

I hate it when people are slating WDW. Im 21 and have been going almost every year since i was 5. I have been other places all over the world but none come close. Everyone seems to break their back to help you out and the atmosphere is uncomparable. People are so friendly and not just cast members. Wherever you go there will be bad apples and WDW is no different, but the positives outweigh the negatives 100 fold. I visited recently for the forth of july and travelled with 3 friends of the same age and older. They loved it and noticed the difference to where they have been. Some people will moan about anything.

[freakylick]

You know, I also find it interesting that many people who I've heard complain that Disney is not "perfect" are also the same people who claim it is too expensive. That always makes me laugh. The people who want extremely happy, cheery CM's and plenty of them and immaculate, not a scrap of paper on the ground parks, also want it to be cheap to go there. .

You know, I also find it interesting that when people make accusations that "these are the same people who...", they usually can't name who those "same people" are....usually because they are just assuming.

But that issue aside...maybe the people who claim it's too expensive do so because it costs a large portion of their disposable income to go to WDW. I suppose if I had a wad of cash just laying around to blow at Disney, I would be less concerned about what I am getting in return.


A one day, one park admission is $58 and a one day admission to Cedar Point is $48. In comparison, well,...there is no comparison! I'd pick Disney any day. I mean, believe me, if there is a sudden rainstorm at Cedar Point, you don't see workers immediately rushing out to squeegee the sidewalks and wipe down the benches and even the tops of garbage cans like I saw at Disney and if you want surly workers, go to Cedar Point. :rolleyes:.

Hardly a fair comparison. First, A one day admission to CP is $45, but few people pay $45 to get in. There are good coupons which are easily available for a CP admission. Heck, just by purchasing your tickets online, you save $4. Which is $17 cheaper than a one day to WDW. And let's not even begin season pass price comparisons. Second, until CP starts advertising about their "magical" parks where "dreams come true", I don't know that people will expect immaculate parks. They advertise thrills and coasters.

(p.s.- I didn't find CP's employees to be surly during my visit...but that was just my experience)

So even if a case can be made for some slipping at Disney, they are still SO far above the rest, it would take a major fall...just not a little slipping...for them to be in the same category with most amusement/theme parks.

I don't think anyone is comparing them to the rest of the industry. They are comparing Disney "now" to Disney "then". I think we all admit that Disney is better than the alternatives..it's just not what it used to be.


Maybe everyone should go to their local Six Flags the week before heading to WDW...that would help lower expectations. :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

[alohaguy]

I don't think anyone is comparing them to the rest of the industry. They are comparing Disney "now" to Disney "then". I think we all admit that Disney is better than the alternatives..it's just not what it used to be.




This is a well-stated point, and one that is sorely misinterpreted. When Disney is compared to no one but its former self, it is precisely then that it's current discrepencies become very noticeable - in my opinion. It is, in some ways, Disney-past that WDW is in competition with.

[Tara]

The role that hourly CM and first line managers play in the guest experience (for good or bad) at WDW can not be overstated.

I believe over the last 50 years our society has changed for the worse in the treatment of hourly workers. Sadly, Disney has been affected by these societal and economic changes.

This is also reflected in the Training. Traditions used to be a 5 day event. When my wife and I started it was 2 days. Now I understand it is one.

There also does not seem to be enough training and support for first line managers. The quality of first line managers is very uneven. Many first line managers just do not make hourly CMs feel valued or appreciated. This has a great effect on the morale of hourly CMs. On the other hand there are also many first line managers that are terrific; however, I would say most of these have been with Disney for a number of years.

Basically, my feeling is the highest levels of management (Eisner?) instituted policies to improve the bottom line for the short term without considering the long term. Since I have spent my career in human resources, I was able to share my concerns with management. Many of these people were sympathetic and aware of the problems. I would say that even people at the highest levels of management at WDW felt their hands were tied by Burbank. I hope that Bob Iger will be able to change direction at the highest levels and this will enable management at WDW to do what they know in their hearts is best for the long term success of WDW.



Hear, hear! I work in management consulting and I think you hit the nail on the head. (In fact, one of our employees was Organizational Development Manager for 1 of the 4 parks before he came here, and he's said many of the same things.) Disney has some of the best customer service and entertainment traditions out there, but they are no longer focusing on instilling those things in new employees, and managers are either undertrained or forced to manage to policies that directly undermine those traditions. It must be so disheartening for new employees -- and frustrating for many of those first-line managers.

What a crying shame that Traditions has been shortened to just 1 day! I, too, hope this article opens some eyes up top, because, based on my experience, real organizational change is impossible when it isn't fully understood, supported and lived by the people at the top.

[WaltD4Me]

You know, I also find it interesting that when people make accusations that "these are the same people who...", they usually can't name who those "same people" are....usually because they are just assuming.

No, I am not assuming and I apologize, I should have clarified, that I didn't mean anyone here on these boards. I was referring to friends, family, co-workers and aquaintances, who have made comments to me (because they know I'm a Disney fan) about how things weren't "just so" for whatever reason and then will complain of the cost. And one co-worker really did gripe...endlessly...about not getting the extra towels she requested and said she should have gotten a free night...don't think she really asked for it
though! LOL!

But that issue aside...maybe the people who claim it's too expensive do so because it costs a large portion of their disposable income to go to WDW. I suppose if I had a wad of cash just laying around to blow at Disney, I would be less concerned about what I am getting in return.

Believe me, I don't have wads of cash, but I've never, ever felt I didn't get my money's worth from a Disney visit. And yes, maybe some of those who say it's too expensive do invest alot of their disposable income in a Disney trip, but again I was referring to people who have said this to me personally and some of them, not all, aren't hurtin' because they went to Disney.

As for CP, I admit that was probably a poor comparison, but then again, what can compare to Disney? :goodvibes

That being said, the points AlanH made in his post were excellent and I'm sure very true. Sadly everything changes and unfortunately Disney doesn't live in a magic time bubble where everything remains the same. I honestly believe the only way for Disney to be what it used to be 20 years ago, people and society in general would have to be what it used to be too and we all know that ain't gonna happen. :rolleyes:

[jann1033]

It is, in some ways, Disney-past that WDW is in competition with.

that's the whole point...

someone mentioned how different people are in general which i think is true. i remember on these boards people who have no problems being rude to people who mistaken get in front of them or who refuse to allow kids to sit in front of them at a parade ( "I claimed this parade spot in 1902 and will defend it to my death" even though they have seen the parade 180 times and the little kid hasn't ever seen it, it is their right after all :rolleyes: they were here first)even though they could see clearly over them.... (talk about Magic "slippage"! ) which always makes me laugh how people can be such crabs in what they claim is the "happiest Place on earth"...hate to see them in rush hour traffic :sad2:

so imo we can't all change Disney policy but we can all make things nicer at the parks by being civil.

[alabamagirl]

I think this reporter guy should cry me a river. :guilty:

I don't care what he says, service at WDW is better than most and the people that feel the way he does shouldn't come to Disney anymore because they just ruin the magic. :maleficen

[Synonymous]

I've been going to WDW for quite some time now, and there is no question in my mind that customer service is slipping. It's no answer to say that it's still better than other places. Disney became what it is (or was) because it earned a reputation for being near-perfect. That reputation is rapidly draining away. I believe that was the main point of the article. Just as Disney's movies are not what they used to be, the parks are no longer what they used to be. Do we want to see WDW overtaken by other companies in theme parks the way it has been in animation?

If you want employees to really care about the customer's experience (and, really, can we still say that Disney considers us "guests" rather than "customers"?) then you have to make sure those employees are happy. Not just "happy to have a job" but happy to be doing what you're paying them to do. They have to feel secure, they have to feel valued. If a CM is worried that s/he is going to be replaced by a part-time worker, have his or her pension cut, or not be able to afford the rent on his or her apartment on what the pay is, how can you expect that person to go out of their way to add "magic" to the customers' day?

It's great that so many CMs there still manage to provide these magic moments. But, in my personal experience, those CMs are becoming more and more rare, and they are being replaced by something that USED to be rare at WDW- surly or uninterested employees.

If we allow the company to hide behind the fact that service is still "better than Six Flags" then there will come a day when it no longer is.

This is undeniably the fault of upper management, meaning, primarily Eisner. And let's remember, Eisner picked Iger. I'm so disappointed that Roy and Stanley rolled over. This is precisely the time when a loud, forceful presence calling for the return of Disney values could actually have done some good.

[dvcgirl]

I was wondering about the "magical moments" the other day and the increase in Disney related websites. Now that so many people want to wake up TInkerbell, look forward to towel animals or any of the other numerous things that have been described-do we expect that service all the time and are disappointed when we don't get it? I remember on one of my 1st trips to WDW and we got to ride in the front of the monorail a lot--there was rarely anyone else who asked to do it. On my last trip (honeymoon!) we never got to ride because so many people were asking to do it. But, we also had several times where our table was decorated w/ confetti and our desserts said "Congratulations" in chocolate b/c it was our honeymoon. So are people disappointed b/c not every moment is perfect? I love Disney WOrld and just bought into SSR-I've been there too many times to count and I have NEVER had a bad experience w/ a cast member. I have also had some problems--our room rate was quoted at one price and 2 days later we received another "confirmation" at a much higher rate. The higher rate was actually the correct one but I wasn't sure-so I called to find the information. WHen I mentioned (MENTIONED! Not argued or demanded) that we might have to stay less time and cut our honeymoon short b/c the difference was so big-the manager gave me the lower price. He didn't have to! The paperwork I had originally received was an estimate based on previous year's rate but he did b/c he wanted us to have a "magical honeymoon". So we were able to stay for the whole time (and probably spent tons more anyway!). I think I got off topic but my point is-yes, people have problems w/ WDW and DIsney-but I think our expections have gotten so much higher. Just my 2 cents.

I think that you hit the nail on the head. I remember *way* back in 1997 in the early days of the RADP newsgroup when there just a few hundred Disney geeks like us on there and we'd talk about and share secrets. Well, now the secret is out so to speak. There are thousands and thousands of people who read about Disney on the internet each day. If they don't have some overwhelming magical moment they feel slighted. You read about it here all the time. "We didn't get *any* towel animals!!!" or "Our Whispering Canyon server didn't do any of the gags!" or "We told everyone we were engaged and didn't get anything free!!" The outrage of it all....

But, it's only because Disney is held to incredibly high standards. Having said all of that, there have been noticeable cutbacks in the parks in the past five years. I personally think that things are on the upswing again.

[Mainebound]

i responded in another thread about this. Yes, I talked to the reporter at great length. Got his entire story end to end. He didn't request the extra bed, he told CRO what his family size was and they booked him the "appropriate" accomodations, including a rollaway. At checkin is when he discovered a rollaway is not allowed.

I was Ms. Motta in the story. My thread on the Trip Reports board is called ASMu woes. There were many stories submitted to the reporter, I was notified as my story made each cut. My story is not quite what it appeared in the article, in fact in my opinion the article makes me sound sort of over-expectant. Or that my complaints were minimal. Anyone who checks my original thread can get the WHOLE story. WHich is continuing, not well I might add... a week before we give WDW another chance. I am kind of worried but intend, if things go badly at the resort, to demand to be released from my ressie to find accomodations offsite. Gotta make my own magic, you know!

Anyway, I don't know of customer service at WDW has taken a turn for the worse. Our first family trip ever was just over Easter (ASMu woes, of course). So I have no previous service to compare. But I can say that guest expecatations are not always the problem.

Have a great day everyone, wish me P &PD for my trip... the reservations have already been a complete mess, just hoping it is TRULY all fixed now!

Beth

Beth -- Thank you for taking the time to explain, on yet another thread, what's been going on. Best wishes to you and your family for a GREAT next trip.

And yes, I wonder whether this shouldn't be on the resorts board -- everyone knows that "resorts board people" are the MOST fanatical about Disney! ;) LOL!

[alohaguy]

If we allow the company to hide behind the fact that service is still "better than Six Flags" then there will come a day when it no longer is.

.

Disney has strived to be 'better' since its very conception. We, as the consumer, needs to demand that they continue to improve - and it is very much our place to point out what needs to be worked on. I think the article in the NYTimes will speak louder to Disney than any 20,000 posts on this, or any other boards.

And don't get me wrong ... many Disney CM's are very hard-working, enthusiastic employees - still full of 'magic' - but in my experience it is hit or miss these days.

[freakylick]

No, I am not assuming and I apologize, I should have clarified, that I didn't mean anyone here on these boards. I was referring to friends, family, co-workers and aquaintances, who have made comments to me (because they know I'm a Disney fan) about how things weren't "just so" for whatever reason and then will complain of the cost. And one co-worker really did gripe...endlessly...about not getting the extra towels she requested and said she should have gotten a free night...don't think she really asked for it
though! LOL!

No problem…I got a little “defensive” because I often have unjustly been the victim of those assumptions. But I appreciate the clarification.


Believe me, I don't have wads of cash, but I've never, ever felt I didn't get my money's worth from a Disney visit. And yes, maybe some of those who say it's too expensive do invest alot of their disposable income in a Disney trip, but again I was referring to people who have said this to me personally and some of them, not all, aren't hurtin' because they went to Disney.

I got no problem with that. Though I still believe that people with lower disposable incomes probably do have slightly higher expectations. Admittedly, that is not the only factor.

[Synonymous]

Though I still believe that people with lower disposable incomes probably do have slightly higher expectations. Admittedly, that is not the only factor.


I doubt that- I think it's the people with HIGHER incomes who are pickier about things being "just so." The people who scrimp and save to bring their kids to WDW for a once-in-a-lifetime vacation are probably not going to be complaining about not getting extra towels. Head over to the DVC board sometime and listen to people whine about not getting the specific view they requested, or about a light bulb being out when they checked into the room.

[grinningghost]

I doubt that- I think it's the people with HIGHER incomes who are pickier about things being "just so." The people who scrimp and save to bring their kids to WDW for a once-in-a-lifetime vacation are probably not going to be complaining about not getting extra towels. Head over to the DVC board sometime and listen to people whine about not getting the specific view they requested, or about a light bulb being out when they checked into the room.

Perhaps it's because I'm another Western New Yorker, and we tend to be down to earth, but I totally agree with you. We love WDW, and we get there however we can (usually by booking early and making payments, and saving change) and I really feel satisfied with the service there. Yes, there's been little issues along the way - dirty restrooms sometimes, arrogant waiters, but all in all, the experience is always positive. I'm backing up the mouse this time. :) ::MickeyMo

[freakylick]

You think what you think (I’m sure it’s based on your personal experiences) and I think what I think based on my personal experiences…Who is right?! Neither of us really knows. I would go on, but I really don’t want to turn this into a socio-economic discussion.

[natcam1996]

This has been an interesting thread. I got the article through another source (not a Disneyholic) but a person who thinks Disney is special and has a reputation to defend. I can see validity in a lot of the statements and suggestions here. As a professional manger, one of the things that I didn't see clearly expressed is that Disney, as a corporation, still has a bottom line and part of that is the need to please the other folks who really own the company - the stockholders. So I'm not sure I'd want to be the executive tasked with: providing all that expected "magic"; to try to acquire, keep, motivate and appropriately reward the employees based on my assessment of the motivations of the current workforce; keep up with the maintenace on the infrastructure, some of which in WDW is in the over-30 year category; and still provide an acceptable bottom line to the folks who have the authority to put me out on the street. And doing that during some of the difficult ecomonic times over the last 6 or 7 years. The world has changed a lot since Walt first conceived Disneyland and then WDW.

[lllovell]

The most interesting thing to me about these threads is how they are all so different. If you have time, you all should read some of the other threads....they all seem to focus on different areas and different takes on Mr. Passy's article.

on the DVC board (because SSR is a DVC report) http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=876928

in the rumor's thread http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=875061

also moved to "rumors" http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=877428

I see Disney customer service improving and I think they are trying many new things in the past 18 months. I am glad that the 50th celebration has started, because I think it was sucking a good bit of energy from other areas of maintenance and upkeep. I also have not ever encountered a bad CM. Maybe I am lucky, but in the last 2.5 year, we have been down MANY times (5-6 a year) and I continue to have the best family vacations ever at WDW.

[Synonymous]

and still provide an acceptable bottom line to the folks who have the authority to put me out on the street.

If only that were true! We tried it last year and it got us nowhere.

[ShadowWind]

We've been to and around Disney since they opened in 1971 and I think the culture of people has changed both in and out of the World. Back then, the world wasn't as fast paced as it is now. People expect much more these days and as has been said, a lot of the once special secrets are now common knowledge making it harder to keep everyone happy.

On the CM side, they are not integrated into the Disney family as they once were with a stake in it's very success. To work for Disney was a special treat and one of honor, but nowadays, it's not any different than any other low paying job out there. The CM's that have been there a long time understand this, but the new recruits don't get that same feeling of belonging to something larger. This has been due to Disney management and their constant budget cuts and putting profit before support. What they failed to realize is that Walt's system of putting the CM first would ultimately translate into the almighty dollar they seek.

And CM's are people. Many forget that. While many people think that they are the only ones that the CM has to deal with, in reality, there are thousands they see every day. And CM's, like you and me, have good days and bad days, may not feel that hot, etc, but do their jobs the best they can.

My experiences have ranged from bad to amazing throughout the years and that's to be expected. Not everything goes smoothly as much as we'd like. But I would say that the good far outweighed the bad and it's still enjoyable to go there and Disney is still much better at what they do than their counterparts. Perhaps since I've been there so many times, I've come to this conclusion. I don't expect "extras" or for every CM to smile and be a bubble of joy. I do expect a solid customer service for a resort that is similarly priced and anything beyond that is a welcome change.

[Epcot83]

I couldn't agree with you more.

I have been to WDW a few times and never, and I mean never have I had any problems. The CMs were always accomodating and very nice, well except for the one monorail driver this year. She was a little snappy, we were sitting in the front with her and she was very cold to us. But the next time we sat up front we got a fantastic driver who talked to us the whole time and then even gave DS the Co-Pilot cards.

The rooms have always been neat and clean upon check in and have always been ready when we got there.

We have had any issues with shipping merchandise home, this time there were a couple of things that were damaged but I was able to contact Disney and they told me to ship them right back and they would get the replacements out to me.

you are correct in saying that most people won't fully read the article. If I wasn't such a big Disney fan I wouldn't have read all the way through.

I would also like to know if Mr. Werner was quoted out of context.

:love: :love: :love: DISNEY!!!!!





I very much agree! I have been to WDW so mayn times i have lost track, and all of those times I have enjoyed. The CM's are the most friendly people you could ever meat. Some things have changed that I wish didn;t change, but Disney is still the best place on earth, or the "Happiest Place On Earth." I think that the problem is that some people only see the little kid stuff, and think its for little kids and would rather go to Universal. THere problem is they dont give Disney a chance and see ALL of it. I dont think I'ev ever been to WDW with out riding TOT. It's jsut a wonderful place, and I dont think I could think of any where else I would rather be on vacation.

And just another thing. I think some of the problem too is that the gay society decides to get together and go to WDW once a year, and some stubborn people think that WDW supports it. But they in no way do. The gay society is the one that organizes it. The only thing that Disney does is let them in. Wich they have to or Disney would get in big trouble for discrimination. So just to sum it up. WDW has nothing to do with the gay society.


Sorry aboUt ym typign sometimes i geT ina rUSh adn dotn pay attention to waht im typgin. soryr





Walt Disney World, my home away form home, vise versa.

[Epcot83]

Well said, and I agree 100%. That's just how I feel. I still love the place, and always will. But yes, there are issues that are present, and should be addressed.







Yeah, I agree too. I alos love the place, its my home away form home, vise versa. But I think that they ahve been slipping a lil with keeping the park clean. I mean not to say its dirty, its jsut changed from 1971 to 2005. But i think Micheak Eisner is to balme for alot of the problems. Fortunatly he will no longer be the CEO of Disney and Bob Iger is stepping up, whom I think will do a very good job.

[Synonymous]

WDW has nothing to do with the gay society.

What in the world does "the gay society" have to do with this discussion?

[freakylick]

What in the world does ... have to do with this discussion?

Just another opportunity for someone to get on a soapbox :rolleyes:

[sotoalf]

I very much agree! I have been to WDW so mayn times i have lost track, and all of those times I have enjoyed. The CM's are the most friendly people you could ever meat. Some things have changed that I wish didn;t change, but Disney is still the best place on earth, or the "Happiest Place On Earth." I think that the problem is that some people only see the little kid stuff, and think its for little kids and would rather go to Universal. THere problem is they dont give Disney a chance and see ALL of it. I dont think I'ev ever been to WDW with out riding TOT. It's jsut a wonderful place, and I dont think I could think of any where else I would rather be on vacation.

And just another thing. I think some of the problem too is that the gay society decides to get together and go to WDW once a year, and some stubborn people think that WDW supports it. But they in no way do. The gay society is the one that organizes it. The only thing that Disney does is let them in. Wich they have to or Disney would get in big trouble for discrimination. So just to sum it up. WDW has nothing to do with the gay society.


Sorry aboUt ym typign sometimes i geT ina rUSh adn dotn pay attention to waht im typgin. soryr


That's alright. The poor grammar, ill-formed sentences, and imprecise arguments are all the proof we need.

[FrozenTundra]

That's alright. The poor grammar, ill-formed sentences, and imprecise arguments are all the proof we need.

Well said.

[Sarangel]

Just a reminder to play nice. No attacking other posters.

Sarangel

[baby_becky716]

Within the last few years I have come to realize that the Media keeps speaking about the "Disney Magic" and how disney is losing it. The Media seems to almost always speak about the negatives of Disney because it sells papers and catches viewers. But I hardly see the Media discuss all the great things that Disney has done. For Example, all the smiles of all the children (big or small ) that have visited the World. Those must count for something. :wizard:
Another thing is:
When people think Disney the thoughts of "magic and perfection" roll into the mind. However people fail to realize that this "magic" is created by people, whether it is the guests or the staff. And EVERYONE has their good and bad days. We are all human :smooth:

"You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality." Walt Disney


P.S. WDW ROCKS lol :cheer2:

[Synonymous]

P.S. WDW ROCKS lol :cheer2:

I think everyone here loves WDW. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. But when you love something, you want what's best for it. You hate to see it cheapening itself, making bad choices, becoming less than you know it used to be.

If we ignore the deterioration and just say "at least it's better than other places" then things will continue to get worse. If nobody presses management to maintain Walt's standards, what will happen to the place?

I mean, c'mon- what do you think Walt would have said to the idea of turning part of Animal Kingdom into a cheap reproduction of the sleazy carnivals that first inspired him to create Disneyland?

[sotoalf]

Within the last few years I have come to realize that the Media keeps speaking about the "Disney Magic" and how disney is losing it. The Media seems to almost always speak about the negatives of Disney because it sells papers and catches viewers. But I hardly see the Media discuss all the great things that Disney has done. For Example, all the smiles of all the children (big or small ) that have visited the World. Those must count for something. :wizard:
Another thing is:
When people think Disney the thoughts of "magic and perfection" roll into the mind. However people fail to realize that this "magic" is created by people, whether it is the guests or the staff. And EVERYONE has their good and bad days. We are all human :smooth:

"You can design and create, and build the most wonderful place in the world. But it takes people to make the dream a reality." Walt DisneyP.S. WDW ROCKS lol :cheer2:

Well, that's all very nice. Walt would be the last one to expect his loyal repeat customers to sing zippidy doo-da while customer service slips, maintenance fails to compare to his own standards, and the competition not only learns from his successes but improves on his failures.

[Shooby doo]

I can see the writers point,I think that it takes those that have been before to notice some of the subtle differences.Remember when you could expect to see all the characters & not just certain times/days of the year.I also think that WDW has dropped some of it's extra detail EG Splash Mountain used to have those chasing water fountain things-now if you've never ridden before you wouldn't know any different & I'm never quite sure whether the first skeleton on Pirates used to be more luminous or better lit up!
I also think that the changes to the Park Passes are a sign of the times & are all about more $$$s
Still I still tingle with anticipation going across on the Ferry boat on our first day!!
SD pirate:

[JenJen]

Very well said ~ I totally agree. We are very frequent WDW visitors and my daughter just finished the college program at Epcot. I can definitely tell that the level of customer service (and just plain courtesy in some cases) have declined at Disney over the past few years. From discussions with CMs we know and my own daughters' experience this lack of "caring" is trickling down from the way that Disney is treating their employees.


Working for the company for several years I agree with this 100%. And from what I have heard from others that I know that still work there the conditions are getting worse. I hope that this article woke some people up and there will be some positive changes in the company.

[Luv2Roam]

One thing I have noticed (and this is my opinion only) that Disney is not in a growth mode. They may be keeping even, or declining as some think. But I don't see them as growing as many companies are now. If anything they are below staff levels of pre Sept 11, even though they own and operate more resorts than they had then, and have the guests in the parks again. They appear to be closing, stopping service, selling off and out sourcing as much as possible. Purely from my perspective, for what little it's worth.

[manning]

Maybe I am in the minority, but if Disney went back to the standards of their beginnings I would gladly pay 10 to 15 dollars more per entrance.

Back then Disney, by far, was not cheap........ but you got more than your money's worth.

I don't know if this relates. Travel agents were pressed against the wall by rule changes by the airlines and the internet. They had to change from waiting for the business to come to them or going out after the business. The debate was do you compete by price cutting only or providing outstanding service at fair prices. The evidence is that outstanding service at fair prices is holding its own and may be gaining.

We use to have a radio personality, the late Bob Collins, in Chicago who use to say if you give outstanding service the people will beat down your doors to do business with you......I believe that.

[iliketoby]

We reserved and paid for a Water-view room at the Boardwalk last November. We got a courtyard view.

I am still trying to get the extra money we had to pay for the water view refunded.

I don't think I ever will.

I think they have so many problems that they can't efficiently fix them all.

[Goofster]

What rubs me the wrong way about this article is that the author got a FULL refund! It sounded as if he thought he was the only guest on grounds.He still got his magical moments...but not enough? We have all had our problems at WDW but we have managed to work them out with happy results and a free breakfast here and there , but I lost it for the writer when he called and got a FULL refund!

[Synonymous]

Would you rather have a great vacation, or a so-so vacation with a full refund?

It's not like the writer imagined these problems- plenty of us here have experienced the same things. I'd rather Disney just got its act together than have them handing out refunds to people.

[JenJen]

I was at Disneyland yesterday and found out that most of the people I worked with over the years were quiting!!! These are people that have been with the compan for a while. I was told that the conditions for cast members are so bad that "it makes you want to quit." These are people that LOVED to work there. Also, there was a lot of negativity in the air so to speak. Very few smiles and a lot more attitude.
I really believe that Disney is trying to push out people with yesrs of service to hire part time people with no benifits. THe new Disney cast member will be unexperianced and sort term. This saves the company ALOT of money and that is what there goal is. Let me give you a few examples of cast members I talked to yesterday....

Cast member A- Was a lead at three attractions and had been working at the parks for 5 years. His lead status was pulled and disney refuses to adjust his hours for school. Adjusting hours for school was something that was common in the past. This Cast member puts in two week notice.

Cast member B- Has been working at the park for 35 years and is constantly being hassled by management about little things and was told that if he called in sick or was late within the next 5 months he would be termed. He has to have a surgery at the end of sept and asked if he could have a few days off for the surgery and his request has been denied. (sounds like they are looking for any excuse to get rid of him)

Cast member C- Has been working for the park for 27 years a chronic medical problem and was told she can not call in or be late for one more year or she will be termed. Becasue of her condition there is no way she can go that long so another awesome cast member will be fired

Before I go on disney used to give exceptions for long term cast members if they had medical problems for extra time off becasue they knew that long term cast members were a good thing for the park. Long term cast members have more experiance and make the guest experiance one that can not be replaced. New cast members look up to these long term cast members for guest service solutions which makes the guest experiance more pleasant.

Cast member D- Has been working for the park for 11 years doing the same job in the same dept. and was told he was no longer needed there and transfered to another dept. and told he would be loosing 2 dollars an hour pay because he had a new classification.

I can go on and on about the people I talked to yesterday. What i heard just crushed me. Disney just does not care about there cast members anymore and it is reflecting in the costumer service. I went to the park yesterday because I wanted to experiance great guest service that they are known for. I would have been happy with just a smile here and there and a thankyou every once in a while but it just was not happening. (Although we went on the pooh bear ride last night and the cast members there were awesome and kept the show well so thankyou pooh bear crew!!!!) What I recieved was more like a Six Flags experiance. It really was upsetting.

I have one major complaint about the entire day....Me and my DD went on autopia last night and she has a GAC for her sensory issues and ADHD. We asked the cast member at the turnstile if we could skip the part were there is a tunnel with 3D cartoons because my DD gets very scared in there. The guy told me that GACS have to go through the tunnel because that was the rules. I then told him that we would wait our time for however long that part of the que is so we are not jumping in front of anyone we just needed to not go through that part and wait to the side. The cast member replied. "I have never heard of anyone being afraid of a cartoon and why does she need this pass she looks fine." Fist of all it is illegal to ask what the pass is for or why someone has it and second his attitude was horrible. It was uncalled for and very unprofessional. By that time my daughter was freaking out because we were standing next to the tunnel and the guy was asking "what is wrong with her" right in front of her and that was making her feel bad. I ended up telling him what her issues were just because i wanted to get out of there because it was upsetting her but I could not believe what was coming out of his mouth. I am seriously thinking about making a written compliant.
It is situations like this that make me believe that Disney's guest service is becoming second best. I don't expect everything to be picture perfect when i go to the parks but I do see the magic slipping more in the last few months. because I have worked there before it just breaks my heart to see the one thing that sets Disney parks appart from other amusement parks fading away. I really believe that if you treat your workers right that it will benifit the company more in the long run. If they continue to be cheap with Cast members then it will become a cheap resort.

Please pardon my spelling and grammer I am on pain medication so it is hard to focus. Thankyou for taking the time to read my post!
JenJen

[AlanH]

JenJen - I did not realize things were that bad at Disneyland. My wife is a PT CM at WDW (formerly FT) and I was a PT CM. You can read my previous comments in post #30 of this thread. I previously posted additional comments on another thread about WDW which I'm copying here.

I'm very sorry about your experience at autotopia. I agree that the CM was very unprofessional. You're absolutely right!

If Disney continues to persue short term profits by not making a long term investment in their hourly CMs and their first line managers, the whole Parks and Resorts division will go down the toilet.

As you can see I was somewhat optimistic for the future. Now I wonder.

First, thank you all for the sympathic words. I know that I can speak for my wife on this in addition to speaking for myself. Both my wife and I greatly appreciate the magical experiences we have had and continue to have at WDW as guests. Therefore, she wants and I wanted to do everything we can to make to experience of being at WDW just as "magical" as it has been and continues to be for us.

Laura (lllovell), you ask a good question. Quite frankly I believe the marginal increase in cost to address these issues at WDW will be more than made up over the long run by increased revenue at WDW. There are a number of issues

1. The maintenance and upkeep. I think most will agree that over the long term deferred maintenance is more expensive than regular maintenace. In addition I believe the additional money spent to see that the light bulbs are replaced, and the parks and resorts are kept clean and freshly painted will pay dividends in the positive guest experience and "word of mouth" recommendations to other people. The reason much maintainence is done while the parks are open is due to management trying to again save money by not paying a "third shift" pay differential. Again I think the marginal increase in cost to do more work on the "third shift" will pay more dividends in the increased guest experience.

2. Management of hourly CMs and first line managers. I'll repeat myself, these people are key to the guest experience. About 90% of guest interaction is with hourly CMs. About another 9% is with first line managers. In addition, the first line managers are crucial to creating "The Work Experience" for the hourly CMs. I believe the additional money spent in training and support for first line managers would greatly enhance the "The Work Experience" for both the first line managers (because now they will feel valued) and the hourly CMs. This will translate into better service to the guests. And again over the long term increased revenues to WDW. By the way I am a compensation and benefits professional. While increased pay and benefits are appreciated, do not underestimate the importance of "The Work Experience". In my experience this can be addressed for a lot less money than pay and benefit increases. But it all starts with top management.

3. Labor Relations. The Labor Relations area must take a less confrontational postion with the unions. Obviously, the positions taken by Labor Relations in the last union negotiations were a direct result of policy set at Burbank. The original position taken by the company in negotiations would have resulted in anywhere from a 5 to 10% cut in take home pay and less benefits to boot. This did not sit well with many hourly CMs when revenues at WDW where close to an all time high and upper management (Eisner) was getting milliions in bonuses and stock options and the company was the defendent in a shareholder lawsuit for paying millions of dollars in serverence to a former President.

[manning]

Kind of reminds of the story about the person in a board meeting who said "hey stupid get up and leave" and the entire board left.

[DVCkidsMOM]

Wow, I thought it was just my family, but after starting my research for Jan 06 trip I know better - or worse as the case may be... I definitely see a decline in CM attitude and information at WDW over the last few years. I could go into specifics, but will only note that 4 year old DD said during April '05 WDW trip, "Mommy, did someone steal the magic?" Bottom line is that the well oiled machine that was WDW is now creaking. The CM stories make sense since every glitch we've encountered was due to a CM lack of knowledge or poor attitude. We hope Jan '06 will be more what we're used to. I wanted to write letters about our poor experiences on Western Cruise in Jan '05 and at WDW April '05, but CM response was so poor during trips that letter seemed useless and I'm not sure I can write it as helpful rather than rant :rolleyes: I don't have CM names because I've never needed to report poor CMs before, but a new aspect of our trip in Jan will be to do so as appropriate, but is this ultimitely helpful? I don't want to sell our DVC property, but will if it looks like WDW will continue it's downward slide :guilty: Wish us less glitches in Jan '06...

[Kitcat]

I'm a former CM and I will be taking my 1st trip to wdw this October as a non-CM. Most of the magic comes from CM's. However, it is upper management that sets the standards very high standards when I was a CM I had a sense of pride in what I did. If your not getting what you expect you need to let the big wigs know or the magic will fade.

[Synonymous]

If the big wigs cared, this wouldn't be happening. They are perfectly happy to let "the magic" fade as long as they can keep filling the parks with special promotions and such. Long term, this will probably result in attendance declines, but people running corporations don't think long-term anymore- by that time, they'll have opened their golden parachutes and gone off to run some other company into the ground.

[manning]

I could go into specifics, but will only note that 4 year old DD said during April '05 WDW trip, "Mommy, did someone steal the magic?"

From a 4 year old, "Mommy, did someone steal the magic?"

Even a four year old noticed.
__________________________________

If you have to give a discount the best service is not being given and you are leaving money on the table.

[Pixiebell]

I have to agree with some of the points mentioned here.

We came over to WDW in 1999 for our wedding, and were completely 'wowed' the whole trip. CM's were polite, attentive, and always had a smile, even for the most stuipd of questions. Even the custodial staff had this same work ethic.

We have been coming at least once a year now since then, and DH and I have definitely noticed a decline in customer services. I found a shirt in MK Emporium that only had one size left. I asked one of the CM's on the register if there were any more out back (this was NOT a busy day, I think there must only have been 20 people in the whole store). I was answered with "If there aren't any out, then we don't have any". This CM then actually turned her back on me and carried on with what she was doing!
I must add in defense of Disney CM's, that we had the complete opposite at MGM Villains store. A slightly older lady was asked the same question, when the store was actually very busy. She went in back 2 or 3 times for me, and even made a phone call to see when their next delivery would be!

I don't feel that Disney are instilling the sense of pride and magic to their newer staff members, which is a terrible shame, because they are the theme parks that every other park in the world looks up to and tries to emulate.
We have noticed a huge improvement in customer service at the Universal parks (they all seem willing to help - I asked a custodial staff for the nearest smoking area, he wasn't sure, but walked me around until we found it!), maybe Disney should take a fresh look at their staffing practices.

There are still many 'feel good' moments at Disney, and they do outweigh the bad, but they need to turn around now, before people decide to go to the other parks and stay there longer.

I just take some comfort that they are not yet as bad as the staff at Busch Gardens. We went there for the first time this year, and I have to say, it will be a long time before we think about doing it again.
We were with friends, buying a drink at one of the stands, when the staff member fainted. DH caught her, and stopped her hitting the ground, while I went for help, and my friend moved the parasol to shade her. While we were waiting for medical staff to attend, 4 or 5 other staff members came over (shift about to start, or just ended), and asked what had happened! We assumed that they would take over from us in helping her, but they just mumbled a bit and walked off!! Just as they had gone, a medic reached us and took over (the girl had only just come round). She thanked us for our help and offered us anything we wanted from the stall, and she would pay for it from her expenses. We just took our drinks and left, but DH stopped off at Guest Services on our way out to check the girl was ok. We were informed that she was fine and had gone home, but the medic had noticed the other girls walking off, and that they were to be disciplined!

I am thankful that I don't think this would ever happen at Disney, nor would I ever work at Busch Gardens, if you have to rely on guests to help you if you fall ill! :confused3

[Disneyrsh]

I wonder if we're loving Disneyworld to death...

I think the CMs' behavior reflects the decline in our manners as a society in general, and not a problem unique to Disney.

Like the frame around my car tag says, been there, done that, going back!

[AlanH]

Your comments on this thread are terrific! If only we had the email addresses for some senior management such as CEO-elect Bob Iger or WDW Presdient Al Weiss so we could send them this thread.

That a 4 year old noticed is very telling!

[JenJen]

That is so sad a 4 year old noticed :guilty: :confused3 I hope that Disney gets the head out of there hmmm hmmm's and starts making some possitive changes in the company. My friends that still work there are all wanting to quit but I guess that is what they want. That way they can hire someone for a lower wage.

[BurkeTribe]

It seems like the problem may be generally two-fold: the corporation not training and respecting CMs as well as in the past, and (some) guests having inflated expectations.

From several comments about shortened employee schedules, it seems like DisneyCorp is making one of the classic business assumptive mistakes, one that new managers with MBAs like to come in and make: they assume that employees with shorter shifts will give better service (because they won't be tired by the end, etc.). This is, in most all cases, foolish and wrong-- it sets up the mindset in the employee that they and their jobs are less important. Short shifts mean less time to get into the flow of work, and thus, less work is done. Often short-shifting, done as cost-saving (in truth, penny-pinching) by a corporation, costs more in the long run, with turnover and customer opinion sag.


Our experiences the past couple of visits have been fine, and several CMs did nice UNEXPECTED things for us... and that is where, in our opinion, some of the real magic lies. It subconciously encouraged us to spread some magic, too -- we had some ready-to-go fastpasses we weren't going to use, saw a tired, frazzled looking couple w/smallkids looking at the long line, so we gave them the passes, which brought smiles. Not trying to toot our horn, because it was not a big deal, but just saying that we think that, well, a lot of small good actions can add up to a greater good time for all.

Smile and have fun, and it radiates to others :banana:

[mattsdragon]

I think that the part where the manager said "if one thing goes wrong, I get a 7 page letter" is dead on. We just went for our honeymoon, and there were problems, nothing major, and nothing that was going to ruin our honeymoon, but there were little annoyances that could be changed. The all-star resorts for instance need their own individual buses. But that's what you get for staying at a value resort.

I think perhaps the problem is that the people doing the complaining aren't taking a second to think. Walk a mile in thier shoes. How often do you stop and actually compliment someone for their work, or go to their supervisor and say that "so and so was wonderful". More people need to do that.

I'll be blunt, the only thing that really gets me annoyed at WDW is other guests. People who don't control thier children, or have no courtesy for the others around them are what set both me and my wife off. The last time we went, I kept getting run over, pushed, bumped, stepped on and generally annoyed by the same group of people at MK(they were a large group from The Pampered Chef, or so their shirts claimed), and my wife was ready to kill another group of inconsiderate, rude, disrespectful line cutters at BB. She finally said something to one of them and the line broke out in applause. People need to act with more civility towards one another, here of all places.

Sorry for the rant, but that's the former retail employee in me coming out.

[manning]

This is something I heard once what the different degrees mean:

BA = Bad Advise

MBA = More Bad Advise

PHD = Piled Higher and Deeper.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[aalan]

mangement is slipping at wdw. i think the article was right on the money. i have visited wdw for a week vacation for the past five years, and i have seen things getting worse. its really sad. thank god ei$ner is leaving, but i do not expect much from iger. part of the problem is that its a different world now: most of the counter service employees i encountered last year could barely speak english. and people are definately more demanding and rude these days. i went to the casting building last year, and was astounded at the wages disney was offering, barely above minimum wage. the posts from past and present cm's say it all. let's hope things get fixed. to those with rose-colored glasses, we are being critical of disney because we like it so much, and want to see things improved. walt would be apalled.

[DoxaRich]

i have visited wdw for a week vacation for the past five years, and i have seen things getting worse."

Can you give specifics.


[QUOTE]most of the counter service employees i encountered last year could barely speak english."

You're not refering to the many Oriental CM's, are you ? Because they were brought in from China to learn how to operate the new HKDL.

[QUOTE] and was astounded at the wages disney was offering, barely above minimum wage.

Is the payscale Disney is paying below the industry standard for the area ? Did you factor in their park benifits ( many retired or semi retired work PT at WDW simply for the perks, wages are secondary ). Does their payrate jump up after 90 days ?

Edited to add that I totally botched the QUOTE feature so this post probably makes no sense.

[AlanH]

Other people may know better, but I do think the payscale is competitive with the industry in central Florida. No the pay rate doesn not jump up after 90 days.

That said it is my understanding that pre 9/11 pay for hourly CMs was higher.

Read my previous posts to this thread, where I comment on the larger societal issue of hourly pay, and the decline in training and support for both hourly CMs and first line managers.

There has been a decline in morale. Many hourly CMs do not feel valued because of bad interaction with first line managers (the manner and responses to hourly CM concerns by many first line managers do not convey the feeling that they are valued) and the stance Disney took in the last contract negotiations. The overall message given hourly CMs on their value to the company is very ambigous. Initiatives from HR are very positive, but undermined by first line managers and other policies.

[Bella the Ball 360]

Who else thinks that some of the extra's (like towel animals) will disappear when too many people start asking for them.


I did not read the whole thread but correct me if I am wrong, aren't towel animals shown in one of the Disney commercials??? If they are going to use them to advertise then they lead you to believe they are de rigeur.

I must say I do agree with a lot of what the journalist states. I have gone to Disney since I was in third grade and the time span from then till now is over 46 years!! To say that they have gone down and that most of the magic had been replaced with charater meet and greets would be a fair statement.

I find myself going less and less because I cannot capture the magic that was there maybe only 8 years ago. Cast members are not as attentive and when I did write a letter of complaint about a varitey of legitimate problems all I got was a kiss off letter. WE still go every summer but now I think I go in hopes of getting that old magic back but only stay a day or two as opposed to 10-14 days and all of that was park time.

My husband always says if something is a value or if it is good do not let them know because they will take it away! They took away Hunchback and Pocahontis at MGM, I just heard that they are taking away Tarzan at AK. Submarines are gone and what is in their place...character meet and greet. They dummped the sky buckets and what is in their place, ...character meet and greet. Think of all the things they have subtracted and then think of what they have replaced them with and IMHO there are more minuses than pluses.

[taximomfor4]

There has been a decline in morale. Many hourly CMs do not feel valued because of bad interaction with first line managers (the manner and responses to hourly CM concerns by many first line managers do not convey the feeling that they are valued) and the stance Disney took in the last contract negotiations. The overall message given hourly CMs on their value to the company is very ambigous. Initiatives from HR are very positive, but undermined by first line managers and other policies.

Huh. This sounds like my DH's job. (He is a public high school teacher), and the decline in morale/ less-than-morale-boosting issues between the teachers and the school board... (and, to an extent, the citizens who cannot afford to pass more levies to KEEP the teaches). The teachers agreed to a pay freeze, yet the city's treasurer got her contract renewed with an $11,000 pay raise this year. VERY disheartening, and apparently is now going on in many work sectors.

If my kids were grown and I could AFFORD to, I would move and get a job at WDW, lol.

Beth

[manning]

Huh. This sounds like my DH's job. (He is a public high school teacher), and the decline in morale/ less-than-morale-boosting issues between the teachers and the school board... (and, to an extent, the citizens who cannot afford to pass more levies to KEEP the teaches). The teachers agreed to a pay freeze, yet the city's treasurer got her contract renewed with an $11,000 pay raise this year. VERY disheartening, and apparently is now going on in many work sectors.

If my kids were grown and I could AFFORD to, I would move and get a job at WDW, lol.

Beth

Vote em out of office. No one is worth a 11,000 a year increase.

[AlanH]

The point is the effect this has on the long term success of Disney Parks & Resorts. One way Disney has differentiated itself from other theme parks is the very high level of guest service. This requires that the CMs who interact with the guests be highly engaged in their work. This level of engagement does not happen when morale is low; leading to a decline in guest service, loss of differentiation in the marketplace, and loss of revenue.

[Synonymous]

This is an issue across the country. Workers are valued less and less, while CEOs and top corporate brass take home ridiculous amounts of loot, whether they performed well or not. Meanwhile any job that isn't nailed down gets shipped off to India or China. I think the results are more obvious to us at Disney because it's a place where we don't expect such real-world problems to intrude.

[taximomfor4]

Vote em out of office. No one is worth a 11,000 a year increase.

LOL. If ONLY we lived in that district!

And all of this is why, after years in the insurance industry for a large, wonderful-to-work-for company, I am out of work and back in school --- nursing school. The job security will be a comfort!

Beth