Would you really?

[Peggy Sue]

We have had numerous discussions here about our collective desire/dreams to receive better discounts/perks from WDW for DVC members. I've read numerous posts from folks stating they are now spending more time away from WDW because they net better value for the vacation dollar.

If WDW did offer DVC members a better discount, say the current Florida resident discount, and the DDE card, would you really be more inclinded to spend all of your vacation dollars at WDW and not leave the property?

We really enjoy DVC, and WDW, but we also enjoy the ability to explore orlando now that we don't have to be park commandos anymore. Although I would certainly welcome better discounts, I'm not sure it would really send me back to the WDW parks every day. I think I would still head off to Universal, Sea World, shopping etc.

Would you use fewer "resort/pool", Universal, Sea World etc. days and spend more time at the WDW parks if DVC members were offered a better deal on ticket prices? Would you dine out more than you do today at WDW?

[Disney Adventurer]

I think if they offered a discount on AP's it would keep more people in the parks. After all, if you already have admission many people would not want to pay to go to another park (Universal, Sea World etc). Lately my stays have been 5-7 days once per year, just a little short or about break even point for an AP. So often times we will get a 4 day park hopper and a two day pass to Universal. If there was a discount on AP's that made them a better deal, I don't think we would do Universal. Just my opinion and situation.

[Werner Weiss]

We were early DVC members, so we enjoyed the sales incentive that provided free admission to the then-three WDW theme parks through the end of 1999.

I can honestly say, that from the time we joined in 1994 until the end of 1999, we never went to any non-WDW theme parks while in Central Florida. We ate all sorts of dinners at WDW theme park restaurants, WDW resort restaurants, and Downtown Disney restaurants. After all, that was the convenient and fun thing to do when spending the day at WDW theme parks.

In 2000, we went to Universal Studios, Islands of Adventure, Cypress Gardens, and shopped the outlet malls. We ate at those parks and at off-site restaurants. During one of two Central Florida vacations, we even stayed off-site at Marriott's Grande Vista (admittedly to conserve points for an upcoming Disney Cruise).

Someone on this board used the term "Golden Handcuffs" to refer to the old park admission sales incentive. I don't expect any more free passes; I knew the program would terminate at the end of 1999 (and I don't want to reopen that heated discussion). But I think Disney management is missing a bet by not selling us new "Golden Handcuffs" -- a theme park admission plan that gives us a financial incentive to remain on WDW property and visit WDW theme parks. The 10%-off on UMP isn't enough, and the DVC Magic Years Pass is a poorly designed plan.

So, for the time being, I'll rely on non-expiring, multi-day Park Hoppers. These passes give us the freedom to go to WDW pakrs when we feel like it and to go off-site when we fells like it.

[larry_poppins]

If Disney gave me a "golden handcuff" I would spend more time on property.
Perhaps not all, but I am sure it would be more than I currently spend.
I find myself eating more meals at the Swan and Dolphin hotels due to their 20% discount
and their proximity to both parks.

Larry Poppins

[vernon]

My last visit to WDW I spent one day at AK that was my only Disney park day. If I had access to cheaper park passes I'd certainly done one day each at MK and MGM. I would also have eaten in Epcot at least twice probably 3 times as I enjoy walking into the park, take in Illuminations and a couple of shows/rides. Particularly on this visit as I stayed at BW for some of the time..

How much did Disney lose out of that?
I'd estimate for my group of 5 we spent $250 on tickets for that day and we ate one meal at Boma ( $150 ) and had lunch at Beaches and Cream ( $100)
Disney got about $500 from me this trip. I also ate at Juan and Only ( but the Swan and Dolphin are independant), at Wolfgang Pucs ( independant) and Rainforest Cafe at AK ( not sure how that works but I think independant also) .
If I'd been able to get for example a Fl resident discount I'd probably have bought the "off season one" which are what $250? I'd have spent probably $100 each day at MK and MGM. Meals at Epcot another $300 maybe more. I'd think Disney would probably got $1500-1700 from me.
I wouldn't have spent $400 at Sea World, $300 at IOA , $120 at Juan and only or $100 at Pucs.

I'd say Disney is down AT LEAST $1,000 on my trip (and I'm a cheapskate LOL :D) that will be the way it continues if they don't give me a break on passes. Of course I'm only one person/family and I may be an unusual case. But I'd be happy to put a bet on that there are a lot more people like me out there. If just 20% of DVC owners are similar to me ( 10,000 out of 55,000 owners) that's $10,000,000 a year Disney is out. Times that by 42 years ? It's almost enough to build a proper transportation system LOL

[PKS44]

Just curious- regarding the attractiveness of deals...suppose the UMPs were offered to DVCers at 20% off? 30%? What would it take? I would think UMPs are a better deal for Disney because they expire and you either spend all days on property or you have already spent $$ for time in the parks even when you choose to be off property for a day...

How much are UMPs anyway?

Paul

[eva]

If they offered tha Florida Residency Pass to DVC members it would keep us in the parks more. We have been buying 7-day passes and splitting them between two week long trips. Then we spend more time around the pool and cooking on the grill. Occasionally we head over to USF too. This next year we are planning on going to HH or Vero just because we decided that the passes are just too much for this trip. With the amount that we would spend on passes we can do an awful lot of other things at one of these places. If we got a great deal on admission I would think twice though, especially with the 100 year celebration going on.

[dianeschlicht]

One thing we are missing here is that DVC can't offer us Florida residents passes if we are not residents of Florida. They can, however make a new pass called DVC passes that is equal in value to a resident's pass.

[KimOhio]

Our first year as owners we did all the Disney parks only now we only do one. If they offered a better deal on passes we would buy them and spend our money in the parks so yes I am one of the 20% that disney now does not get

[vernon]

Disney makes their own rules, they can offer DVC members whatever they want.
It's Disney's own criteria as to what contstitutes " Florida residency" in how it offer park discounts.. IMHO it would simpler to incude DVC membership, but they coiuld word it in such a way that DVC for X amount of time is considered "honerary Fl residence" , such offers are subject to change and cancellation at any time etc etc

[mikesmom]

While we have enjoyed our dining experiences at WDW, we usually make only one, or at most, two ressies for the whole time we are at the resort. The rest of the time we "eat in" (What can I say, I LIKE to cook.), or maybe counter service.

If Disney gave us a pretty stiff discount on meals, I feel sure we would head out to the restaurants more often.

[Tiggeriffic]

I just joined DVC last year, but my plans for the future are definitely affected by this. For instance, I plan on golfing on some of my future trips. If I spend a good portion of my day golfing, I don't want to waste a park admission to go into Epcot for a meal or to bop into a park for a ride or two ar night and a meal there. However, if I felt that it didn't cost me anything to do that, I definitely would feel free to do that. Also, given that I probably won't be going into the parks everyday, I'm much less likely to buy the UMPs, which is what we've usually done in the past. This also makes it less likely that I'll go into the parks just for a meal or a short time. I definitely would go into the parks almost everyday I'm there if I could get a good discount on APs.

[Granny]

No doubt about it, it would get my family in the parks more.

Good example...our next trip we will buy hopper passes. The first day we get there, we will not go into the parks and use up a day on the pass, even though we will be there by noon.

I would think this would not affect the frequency of park visits for anyone who currently buys an annual pass....it would be just making that deal even better.

I think the poll on how the DVCers buy admissions resulting in the majority buying AP's. If the majority are already doing this, then what is Disney's incentive to discount the AP?:(

[JonHM]

I must respectfully disagree. The number in the poll (as of right now) is 48% - YES it is the largest % in the poll, but that still leaves a full 52% who *carefully manage* when they are in or not in the parks. It would DEFINITELY behoove Disney financially to get all the rest of us feeling relaxed and unworried about when we are or aren't headed to the parks - we would all wind up spending a lot more time (and money) there.

[KLR-wlv]

WE're trying out US/IOA this time for the first time due to having 3 days of a hopper left. I doubt if we would be inclined to go off property if an affordable pass was available. ANd the after 4pm Epcot passes for Fl residents are a great idea to get people dining in Epcot...

[mistermouse]

We currently use AP media, but do not plan on renewing. We love the flexibility to come and go to each of the parks throughout our stay, but we like it to be relaxed and we like to feel free to "do nothing" on some days. For this reason the UMP's are of little value. AP's may not be the answer this year either. Orlando is offering a growing number of options for our time and $, so rather than pay $$$ for AP's we plan on "getting out" a bit more. IF we had an attractive discount option for AP's, etc. we would be less likely to roam.

I feel DVC'ers are more value minded than the general vacationer (especially Dean, LOL); the reason WDW extends special pricing to FL residents is clear - they are in general not a typical WDW vacationer and have an array of options in their own backyard; DVC owners are not so different. While we would love to "run in" to MGM for lunch (Pot Roast at Prime Time!), it's also nice to drive over to Crossroads or DD.

DVC owners should receive value priced admission media similar to FL residents because from a marketing perspective the two groups are very similar segments. Until that happens, more of our $ will be spent outside WDW.

[AnnK]

Yes! Absolutely!
If Disney does track spending then they are going to see that some DVC members like us are not spending as much time in the Disney parks and restaurants as we used to. I loved having the AP because we could just walk over and eat at Epcot or MGM, but I was not willing to pay for AP's for all 7 of us, just to eat in Disney. The kids were not as anxious as they used to be about going to the parks, the AP became more of a convenience than anything else.
If Disney offered a real discount on AP's or PAP's I would buy them.

[PKS44]

I don't think that "DVC owners should receive value priced admission media similar to FL residents because from a marketing perspective the two groups are very similar segments"

One group is coming to FL to stay on WDW property, guaranteed for the next 41 years, but for limited times. A week or two for the most part...

The other group is always in FL and can stay and will stay anywhere (including in their own homes/backyards) May never come to WDW, but potentially could come every day of the year easily in some cases.

Not similar at all from a marketing perspective.

Paul

[JillU-DVC]

We too bought PAP's this year because we had planned multiple trips this year to Disney - we LOVE being able to come and go as we please, and would definitly purchase PAP's again if they were discounted.

However, since there are no discounts available to us, in future trips we'll go with 7 day hopper passes, and use the days as needed. We won't go into the parks as much, maybe only once or twice a trip, adn since we NEVER cook on vacation, Disney is loosing out on our food, beverage and souveneer business by not providing a discounted admission that can be used by the majority of DVC owners (the newly announced plan of multiple days/years just does not work for us at ALL).

I also anticipate trips in the future where we won't go into the parks at ALL.

We WILL spend more time at UA/IOA, especially since they offer a GREAT Seasonal Annual pass, with blackout dates during high season, which is a REALLY good deal.

Disney, say goodbye to our money, except for our hotel bill (which is neglible since we're DVC members), and hello Universal!

[Granny]

I just went back to the "how do you buy admissions" poll and found the following:

PAP = 5.2%
AP = 47.4%
LOS = 9.25%

To me, people holding those admissions are pretty much free to go in and out of parks at any time during a stay. These numbers add up to about 62%.

Don't get me wrong....I'd love for Disney to give us an AP discount since I am one of the 38% that don't use the above admissions packages. I just think that those execs at Disney would look at these numbers (if they are projectable to all DVC) and think that they would have to really get a huge percentage of the 48% that don't use AP's in order to offset the reduction in revenues from the 52% who would "renew" their AP's and pocket the money (probably to be spent in Disney parks anyway:) ).

Of course, one hole in my logic is that AP buyers don't necessarily buy every year so Disney could certainly increase revenues if they got AP's renewed every year. I'm sure they have their analysts running different models on all sorts of scenarios.

Last note, JonHM....feel free to disagree or correct me at any time. To me, it is important to hear all points of view. I don't think anyone benefits (especially me) if they think that their opinion is the only valid one.

Thanks for the feedback. Great discussion thread!

[AnnK]

Granny you are right about the exec's offering discounts on AP's. Based on the responses they don't have any incentive to offer DVCers a discount because many will buy them anyway.

Some families, like mine , will decide at some point during their time in DVC, that they don't need the AP. Planning trips within the calendar year ( especially when you kids hit middle/high school years) just isn't worth the effort. This is the FIRST year that we did not renew our AP's. We went in Feb, and only entered the parks for one day, and then 1 e-night, and we were there for 12 days!!!!! It may take awhile before Disney starts to feel the loss, but when you consider our family is 7, ( plus many of teh friends and family that we bring along) multiply that by the number of drinks/Mickey bars etc that we will not buy because we are in the parks less, it can really start to add up.

I did speak with someone at BWV and what he told me is.... Disney offers DVCers what THEY consider to be the best pass/discount for us, and that is the UMP. He also indicated that they don't feel any pressure to compete with USF/IOA. He feels that until they feel the need they will not offer any further admission discounts.
I am not holding my breath waiting for a discount. I don't feel I am "owed" anything because I bought into DVC. I am happy with my hopper because I feel it is the best value for my family based on what is available to me right now.
If Disney offers a good discount I would happily buy an AP,until then, I am content with what I have.

[PKS44]

With the obvious caveat that we have no idea if DIS is a representative of all of DVC or WDW DVC or whatever I would also be curious to know how many DVC families are more than 2 people, (we are) how the age range breaks down toddlers/teens/etc...This would be very relevant as I believe nationwide the demographics are set to kick Disney in the pants big time over the next few years IMO...

Here is why...Disney has been riding the crest of a wave of children known as the echoboom-children of baby boomers.
More and more of the echo boom are becoming teens or even twenty-somethings-most of these will be more attracted to the thrills of USF/IOA and "turned off" by what Disney does best- clean family fun...Until they have toddlers/young children of their own-- which is probably another 10-15 years off. The other big demographic is the boomers who are 50-65 over the next few years and not going to flood the parks. I don't think Disney can compete for the thrill ride crowd (like they are trying in DCA)-it is not who they are-- EPCOT/MGM can go after the boomers but not the echoboom and both parks will need to be tweaked up a notch to capture the boomers desires for both nostalgia and new experiences. MK the crown jewel will suffer attendance drops and AK is just a big mess in need of complete overhauling...

BTW what applies to the parks goes for the movies as well--> If you want to know what will succeed look at what the boomers will want...In their 20's they thought their generation invented identity crises creating a boom in the self-help and identity finding world. In their thirties and forties they reinvented raising families and Disney and others have enjoyed the spoils. Fifty year old men will probably go for faster cars and younger women, in an attempt to recapture their youth while fifty year old women- well I have never had any idea what women want at any age so I won't even try...:)

Paul

[vernon]

Ann , I think you miss the point. NO ONE is saying they are owed anything. IMHO it is in Disney's interest to give us a break, Disney will make more money that way. I want the best value for my holiday $ , in an ideal world Disney will give me that value and they will get my $$$ , if they don't offer value my $$ will go elsewhere.

Granny even if those figures are correct ( 60% of people have LOS or AP's ) to discount those tickets by say $200 per ticket is not going to lose as much as Disney will make from half of the remainder ( 20% of the total ) spending like me an extra $1000. I would also bet that there are people ( again like me) if they split their vacation between resorts ( say 5 days at BWV and 4 days at VWL) would get a LOS pass for ONE of the stays not both. You're assuming that because they use a LOS pass as their prefered ticketting option, they have a LOS pass for their WHOLE vacation. That may not be a correct assumption.

I also think that people who frequent these boards have above average levels of "pixie dust fever " LOL and are stronger Disney fans than most. Because of that I feel the level of AP's will be higher in this forum than is actually the case in the "general public" JMHO.

I also feel that as Paul touched on, as time goes by and more members have had repeated visits to WDW the desire to "park bash" will deminish. People just won't feel the need to be in the parks all day every day. As that feeling increases the ability to justify spending large sums on AP's is going to diminish. Personally I'd be happiest with a park pass that allows me entry to the parks ( or even just Epcot) after 5.00 so I can go eat there and take in maybe a couple of rides ( so any kids feel like they have had their "daily Disney fix" ) at a relatively minimal cost. I think the low season with "blackout dates " could work for a lot of people.

[PKS44]

I find myself agreeing with Vernon and his ideas for limited park passes...The pass described by someone on the Tokyo post about the Tokyo parks - the one that allows admission but no riding-that might be something US Disney needs to look into...They do seem to be transforming themselves from theme parks to into expensive themed shopping malls under the guidance of a shopping mall guy like Pressler.

Some sort of system of pass reform might be needed to address the changing market. This is not far from what Walt had originally with a lower admission fee and all the tickets to ride. This might allow serving the various market niches more precisely-giving the unlimited riding power to the young and restless and yet not pricing out the older folks who want to shop/eat and enjoy the ambience...and the nostalgia appeal to those boomers by having A, B, C,...E ticket books again...

Paul

[Snowgod]

As the current economic climate continues to erode the attendance to the parks, Disney may have to rethink its best customers. DVC is a commitment to attend the WDW but not the parks. We love to go to the resorts and visit the BW an DTD. The parks are becomming to expensive for more than a day here and there. We love the parks and used to go just to eat at some of the restautrants, but now eat outside the parks and head out to Orlando for less expensive fun. If we got the FL Discount, we would stay at WDW and not leave. Those of us who express our opinions here on th DIS are a minority of the DVC but what we say is extremely important. Perception is reality and our perception is that Disney is too expensive.:smooth: :D :)

[AnnK]

Vernon,
I am actually answering BEFORE anyone states the obvious, that we should not expect anything more than what we paid for( rooms).
I myself agree that a there should be a significant AP pass discount for DVCers. I mentioned the conversation wth the CM at BW because I felt it was important for members to hear that Disney thinks they are offering us the BEST PASS DISCOUNT that THEY think is good for us. ( the UMP) The truth is that very few DVC members see the value in the pass. ( and that includes me!)
I also agree that Diseny is missing out on the opportunity to tap into a large market of people. We joined when BWV opened. We have taken many trips during this time. Our children who ranged in age from 15yrs old down to an infant are now 20yrs down to 5yrs. Needless to say, things have changed. We honestly were not spending as much time in the parks as we used to, that's why we went to the hopper plus. I thought I would miss the AP, but on my trip in Feb, I didn't miss it. I will be there for 12 days in Nov and another 12 in Feb, I will better be able to decide if it was a good choice after that. If I had an AP I would have only had it for my trip in Feb, and then my upcoming trip in Nov, and then I would be looking at a huge layout for 7 AP's in Feb. So far I only went to the parks for what 1 day in Feb, and then however days I may go into the parks in Nov. Disney could get me to buy an AP, If the discount was good enough. Otherwise I will use the hopper, which will reduce my time in the park, and all the money we would spend. The point I wanted to make is that I don't believe Disney owes me, I am not angry or upset, but I do think that is is in their best interest to start thinking about DVCmembers, and getting us into the parks.

[leanne2255]

I am pretty much in concensus (sp) with the majority of the posts. We purchased a 5 day Park-Hopper, but will spread that out over our next 2-3 visits. i.e. less time in the parks, less time spending money IN the parks. I firmly believe Disney is losing out by not providing discounts to DVC members. After all, we are their most LOYAL following. Otherwise, we would not have bought into DVC in the first place.

[Dean]

It would take more than the FL resident discounts to keep us in the parks, we are FL residents and haves scaled back dramatically doing other things.

True, the WDW discounts have nothing to do with true legal resident status and WDW can set whatever rules they want on this.

I would also agree that WDW doesn't "owe" us anything however DVC has the responsibility to get members as much value as they can in any reasonable way possible. And in that regard, they have been falling down on their job.

[WebmasterDoc]

I truly amazed at the inconsistent comments these threads always invoke.

The usual reason given for "why Disney should give DVC members a big discount" is becaues we are such loyal customers who have devoted ourselves to returning for the next 40 years.

In the next breath, we then emphatically state that unless some nebulous discount is provided- Disney will never see us again.

We can't have it both ways. Either we're devoted guests or we're not. While several have stated that they are spending less time and $$$ in the Disney parks, until Disney can verify that as an actual fact, there is likely to be no change.

Vernon is correct, Disney can offer us any type of discount they choose (FL Residence included)- it's just that they choose not to at this time- probably because enough of us truly are devoted fans and are still in attendance.

[lodgelady]

We bought DVC so we could afford a warm weather vacation at Disney each spring. *BUT* as we add up the numbers, we are coming to the realization that passes for all of us are still over 1/3 of our vacation expenses. In addition, they are the ONLY expense that cannot really be curtailed. The price goes up every year!!! YES we can drive instead of fly; we can cook for our selves or eat at McDonalds , but because there are no substantial savings to be had on passes we are looking at making those kinds of trade-offs in order to go to the parks EVERY year. I suspect we will grow tired of all that scrimping and just skip going to the parks. The other issue to me is a feeling of freedom on vacation- to come and go in the parks. If we are going to relax at Disney(is this a contratiction in terms?) I want to feel free to skip days (which you don't with LOS passes), or only go for partial days (which we don't with park hoppers) Annual passes are impractical due to school schedules AND for a family of 4 they are a HUGE upfront investment. It would be perfect if DVC members were offered a real discount or a more flexible option to go to the parks....sigh :earsgirl:

[mnlovesdisney]

I would most certainly spend more time in the parks if they offered me a better deal. With a family of four and having a middle class income it is very diffult to justify much time in the parks with what the hopper passes currently cost. As for all the people purchasing AP's, I wonder how many of them live is close proximity to WDW. We live in Minnesota and one trip a year is all we can do, if that, so AP is not an option. I enjoy eating at EPCOT but don't do this as often as I would like because of admission price to the park. Out of a week's day we usually only have 2 to at the most 3 days out of hopper pass that we use. Cost is definitely an issue for us. When they do offer discounts we do often use them, such as at Disney Quest and restaurants at Market Place and various hotels, etc. So I am sure if they offered a better deal on park admission we would use that also and spend more time in the parks.

[PKS44]

DEAN: DVC has the responsibility to get members as much value as they can in any reasonable way possible

DOC:[Others argue] ...we are such loyal customers who have devoted ourselves to returning for the next 40 years.

In the next breath, we then emphatically state that unless some nebulous discount is provided- Disney will never see us again.

We can't have it both ways. Either we're devoted guests or we're not.


Lodgelady: I want to feel free to skip days (which you don't with LOS passes), or only go for partial days (which we don't with park hoppers) Annual passes are impractical due to school schedules AND for a family of 4 they are a HUGE upfront investment. It would be perfect if DVC members were offered a real discount or a more flexible option to go to the parks.


ME:
I don't agree that DVC has the responsibility as described. They have a responsibility to make a profit and maintain the property in good condition. Neither of those things has anything to do with value particularly as it relates to park admissions.

I don't think the loyalty deserves any reward, and those that are arguing that and then threatening as Doc suggests are equally misguided. I don't think that is what they are saying. What they are saying is you have this market captured to a degree now let's see if you can get more out of it by giving us a little more. No one should be arguing for something for nothing (and I would call loyalty almost nothing). It should be a trade where both parties feel enriched....And as Doc suggests- that will only happen if their investment in giving up some revenue from admission charges translates into overall increase in revenue for Disney in the long and more likely also the short (next quarter) run.

This brings me to lodgelady and my original comments here and on another thread about pretending to be a Disney exec...There are precedents at Disneyland and Tokyo Disneyland to approach admissions differently than they do at WDW. In Tokyo and in the old days at DL there are admissions without ride privileges, or limited privileges by way of tickets. In Disneyland they used to sell a 5 days for the price of 2, but those 5 days were consecutive from the first day.

Going back to tickets or different admission levels probably would be too much of a change and require, wristbands and the investment may not pay off. But giving DVC members the special LOS pass at a 10% discount already leans towards the more days than you pay for idea I am pushing...Clearly they feel they can't sell LOS at full price toDVCers. If they could they would not discount them...I wonder how many they actually sell at this discount. If people felt they were getting extra days for "free" but they did not last forever like hoppers they would be more inclined to visit the parks more(spending accordingly) and they would also be attracted to the deal since they would not feel compelled to go everyday and squeeze the value out of those park days at full price or LOS prices. Right now it is 5 days for the price of 4.5 , how about 5 for the price of 3 ( a 40% discount of sorts) That would sell better I would think and might satisfy the market desire expressed here by the non AP holders and those not wanting to make that huge investment in AP.

[mnlovesdisney]

PKS44,

Your idea would work for me. That would allow us to enjoy some more meals at EPCOT and half days at the park without feeling we were wasting our money. Using hopper passes and not spending the full day at parks feels like a waste of money so we don't do that.

[Dean]

Originally posted by PKS44
I don't agree that DVC has the responsibility as described. They have a responsibility to make a profit and maintain the property in good condition. Neither of those things has anything to do with value particularly as it relates to park admissions. DVC has no responsibility for profit. Maybe I should have said that if DVC was to offer additional programs, it was their responsibility to offer the best program possible from a member standpoint.

[Dreamfinder2]

We've been fretting over our DVC purchase for over a year now (feel free to call me indecisisve; I prefer the label "cheap.") We've done a lot of comparison shopping, and it's apparent from TUG and other sources that DVC, based on room quality and amenities alone is just about as good as it gets, and is actually competitive in price to the top-end timeshares such as Marriott (except for the annual fees.) Last time I looked, DVC is the only property that is even on Disney grounds. I've concluded that the property itself is the steak; everything else is just sizzle. The sizzle's not bad, but it isn't going to influence my decision. Disney's as good at it gets, if that's what you like! The more I look, the more it makes sense for us.

BTW ... this may belong on the rumors board or somewhere else, but did I hear somewhere that the parks offer a "shopping pass" that lasts an hour? You go to guest services, they take an imprint of your credit card, you run in one of the parks to get that last-minute goody, and if you can make it back out in an hour, they don't charge your card. Otherwise, they treat it as a one-park ticket. Did I dream this or what? Gotta do some research... unless someone can save me some time! :)

[DVCajun]

Hey there, fellow cajun, you didn't hear an empty rumor! That's true, and a pretty nifty perk if you ask me! The way I heard that it works is you actually buy the ticket, but if you get back in an hour they refund it. Either way, it's pretty cool if you really just want to grab something quickly and be on your way. I wish they did similar things for the restaurants, but that would obviously take longer than an hour. Give us an inch and we ask for the mile! ;)

[lyndon1]

I prefer to be a dreamer or an "Imagineer". I believe that the fine folks at Disney will eventually reward DVC members with a lifetime "DVC" pass option. A pass exclusive to the growing family of what is known as the Disney Vaction Club. Other options may include discounts on current pass offerings but why not create something that will continue to promote and reward current and future DVC owners. Walt Disney said " If you can imagine it, we can create it".

I believe we have a large group of "Imagineers" with in the DVC community. I'll be waiting. How about you ?

Lyndon


97' Offsite
98' Offsite
99' Offsite
00' Contemporary - Tower
00' DCL Wonder ( 3 day )
01' AKL
01' Aug DVC
02' DCL Wonder ( 7 day Western Cruise )

[HorizonsFan]

DVC has no responsibility for profit.
Huh? Why else would DVC exist? Unless you're looking at DVD as the profit making entity and DVC as all of us...

[Dean]

Originally posted by HorizonsFan

Huh? Why else would DVC exist? Unless you're looking at DVD as the profit making entity and DVC as all of us... DVC is the management company of several timeshare resorts and DVD is the arm of Disney that is the developer and sales aspect. Since we were discussing the responsibilities of the board and management, I did not think the DVD component of sales were relevent. So I'll state again.

I do not feel that DVC as a management company has any responsibility for profit per say. That does not mean that there will be no aspect of profit, like food and beverage sales, but any profit would go to reduce fees and not into Disney's pocket. It is certainly inappropriate for them to attempt to make a profit on the exchange alternatives. I do realize that paying the other entities (DC, DCL, etc) will not be an exact science and there will be some years when there is a loss and others when there is a small profit but the goal should be to break even on this entity.

[Laurajean1014]

If I was allowed to have FLA resident price passes, my family would spend more time on vacation in WDW. When we fly down, we go to WDW (maybe 1/2 day at outlets and maybe one day at US).

We absolutely love WDW and our DS, 5 yo, is hooked! So, even though we've seen just about everything in WDW, we love to walk around and admire what we've missed being park commandos!

Maybe if we spent less on tix, we would travel down more often, definitely spend more (disposable) funds, and be even more deeply greatful to the Disney family..

[vernon]

Dean, just wanted to say I agree with your reading of the situation 100%

[HorizonsFan]

Dean:
I understand your point now. Do you think that DVC is under pressure from any entity if not to realize profit to at least minimize expense?

[Dean]

Originally posted by HorizonsFan
Dean:
I understand your point now. Do you think that DVC is under pressure from any entity if not to realize profit to at least minimize expense? I'm sure they are and they should be at least from us owners. I just don't think they are playing hardball with the other DVC entities as much as they should be.

[Werner Weiss]

Dean is making an excellent point -- and one that isn't obvious on the surface.

DVC, as management entity, makes a continuing profit, year after year -- but only in the form of the management fee, which is a component of our annual dues. Of course, initially Disney Vacation Development (DVD) makes a good profit by selling the leaseholds at prices substantially in excess of construction costs. Nothing wrong with that. That's the business model by which successful timeshares work.

In a conventional timeshare, such as Marriott Vacation Club (MVCI), the business model is much more obvious. MVCI's development/sales entity sells the timeshares. MVCI's management entity manages the timeshare in the timeshare owners' interest, in exchange for a management fee which is a percentage of the budget. The same is true with DVD and DVC.

Where it gets confusing with Disney Vacation Club is that WDW realizes a lot of ongoing, indirect profits from park admissions, meals, and merchandise purchased by DVC members. It's easy to blur DVC's management role and WDW as a whole, but there really is a distinction.

DVC, as the management entity, has a responsibility to look after the DVC members' interests -- and that includes negotiating the best possible business arrangements with other parts of Disney. The other parts of Disney, such as the theme parks, in turn, have a responsibility to maximize profits -- and one way to this is provide attractive, sales-and-profit-generating discounts and other perks to DVC members. 60,000 DVC families -- who are motivated by value, and most of whom return year after year -- represent a sizable market for Disney.

[Dean]

DVC, as the management entity, has a responsibility to look after the DVC members' interests -- and that includes negotiating the best possible business arrangements with other parts of Disney. The other parts of Disney, such as the theme parks, in turn, have a responsibility to maximize profits -- and one way to this is provide attractive, sales-and-profit-generating discounts and other perks to DVC members. 60,000 DVC families -- who are motivated by value, and most of whom return year after year -- represent a sizable market for Disney.
And this is the reason I say the board has a conflict of interest and that there should be direct member representation on the board. Either as board members or as ex officio members.

[Dreamfinder2]

Whew. Are the details on these posts gonna be on our final exam?:eek:

[mistermouse]

Werner said,
60,000 DVC families -- who are motivated by value

"Motivated by value" is at the heart of this discussion. While all consumers are motivated by value to one degree or another, DVC'ers I believe to be much more value driven than the typical WDW vacation consumer. As such, the DVC family represents a specialty market segment (and a fast growing one at that).

Our satisfaction with DVC ownership really has little to do with the demand for value priced park admissions. Like most, my wife and I are very satisfied with our investment in DVC. That does not mean we are satisfied with Disney's park admission media and the prices we pay for it. We are part of a large and growing frequent users group; judging by feedback on this board many feel the same way. Because of this, some are opting to spend less time in the parks and less $$$ on site. While LOS does fit the DVC "lifestyle," the value we receive relative to the cost is significantly less than the value provided to a less frequent WDW vacationer. We want casual access to the parks and we want it at a reasonable price. We are not commando riding all the E-ticket rides and staying open to close, we should be billed accordingly. AP's are a better fit, but as a different market segment we expect a better value than the typical AP consumer.

This is why FL discounts are so often referenced in this thread. Discounted tickets, dining programs, after 4 Epcot admissions, etc are much more aligned with the type of access we are demanding. With park attendance down and growing competition Disney will eventually move to satisfy our willingness to spend more time in the parks; but it is at least partially up to us to communicate to Disney that these types of programs are what we expect from the company. So talk to your guides and resort staff, write letters, etc. Explain you want to spend more time on property, but also explain that the same value equation used to purchase DVC accomodations is what keeps you from doing so. In the interim enjoy some of what Orlando has to offer off property.

None of these points should be seen as any kind of revolt against WDW. In fact, we will still spend the majority of our time at the place we love, just more time away than we would normally want(casual dinners, slow days, etc).

Corporations regularly reward frequent/repeat customers. Airlines (SkyMiles, OnePass, etc), carwash (every 6th wash free), frequent diners clubs, etc. recognize the value in bringing customers back on a regular basis. While Disney does have it's own types of rewards (DisneyClub, APs, etc), a significant part of these programs are room discounts which we do not need. We want casual access at reasonable costs. The FL discount programs fit the bill and that is what we should be leveraging our stength to attain; it may be the easiest to lobby for and administer since it already exists. To recognize FL DVC owners, the black-out date restrictions should be removed for DVC. Many other previous suggestions might also be satisfactory.

I'm with most of you and feel such a change would be a win/win for Disney. We get the greater value we expect and Disney keeps us at home where we belong.

upcoming trips
HHI in Oct - first Time!!!
OKW in Jan - (no park visits this time, waiting til next visit)

[sumessefui]

In the poll I voted as a puchaser of AP's. WE like to go to the parks for short visits and to dine. This will be the last time we will purchase AP's, however. The price goes up, they start as soon as you purchase them( as against when you first use them), and I do not always get 2 visits in. UMP's or whatever are not a good value for we do not always go into the park every day. The new pass for DVC'ers is a joke. I will now buy park hopper's at the AAA discount, and spend time( and money) elsewhere.

[penguincruiser]

The only reason I am thinking about buying an AP of PAP is because we have banked points and will probably take 2 trips within a year. But I am still weighing up the pros and cons of using up the days on my previous hopper pass and getting a new one for this and the next trip, Why? because the days never expire.

Why am I thinking about APs? because of the flexibility, we can go where we want when we want and not have to bother about using an option for 2 hours at DQ or 1 hour at PI. This to me is worth the extra cash and I think this is also how a lot of DVC members see it. They just want to be able to kick back and relax at "home" and then go out for a meal or one or two rides etc.

The 5 year hopper is also very restrictive, what I would like to see is a DVC hopper pass. Buy 10, 20, 30 days (with related amount of options), no limits on when you use the days, unused days expire in 2042! Add ons possible - just like points ;)
This would make a lot more sense than what they have thought up now. It might not give as much freedom as an AP but you could then do "park days" and "non-park days" during numerous trips, long and short with the same pass.

Does this make any sense?

JJ Penguin