Rollaway beds or air mattresses being provided to guests at SSR?

[SoCalKDG]

From the following article:

Some Ask if the Disney Magic Is Slipping
By CHARLES PASSY
The New York Times

Maybe it was the rollaway bed that didn't materialize because it was suddenly deemed a fire hazard.

Or maybe it was the air mattress that surfaced in its place with a pile of bedding that included 20 - yes, 20 - pillowcases and one sheet.

It was a question meant in the most literal sense. We weren't staying at some budget motel off the Interstate. We were spending more than $300 a night for a one-bedroom "turn-of-the-century style vacation villa" at Walt Disney World's one-year-old Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa.


Anyone ever hear of either rollaway beds or air mattresses being provided to guests at SSR?

[laceemouse]

Mmmmm....I don't THINK so! Makes you wonder doesn't it??

[patsal]

Doesn't sound right to me either.

[Shawn]

Doesn't sound right to me either.

I just read the article. It's not a bad article. More like, "C'mon Disney, keep your eye on the ball". It wasn't an attack as much as it was a nudge to Disney to not take their magic for granted but to keep working on it.

With respect to the air mattress. I haven't been there, so I don't know. He was paying cash. Do they perhaps offer a bit more service (including more bedding and air mattresses) to cash guests?

-Shawn

[Deep-Thots]

I don't know where at WDW he has stayed in the past. However, when I talked with Mr. Passy on the phone, he was surprised that Disney doesn't allow rollaways at the DVC resorts. He said that when he made the reservation through CRO, they said there would be no problem in getting him a rollaway at SSR. That was one of the reasons he was so flummoxed upon being told, "Um, sorry, but no." at check-in. Obviously, he would not have made the reservation there had he known about that restriction. Maybe someone at CRO doesn't/didn't know any better?

Just thought I'd share what I was told.

[charlespbg]

Hey, it's Charles Passy (I'm a disboards regular reader in addition to occasionally writing about Dsiney).

I was promised the rollaway bed not once, but three times: When I made my reservation, when I confirmed my reservation (the night before) and when I checked in. It was only when I arrived at the room was I told -- by a phone message -- that the rollaway was against fire regulations.

After some complaining about the situation, I was told they could provide an air mattress for the night (we had a family of four and needed one extra bed). I wasn't thrilled about that, but it was the only option. They agreed to upgrade me to a larger room the following day (they couldn't do it that day because of lack of availability). The upgrade wasn't offered automatically, either, I should note -- I really had to push for it.

In any case, that's the story. Needless to say, I've had better stays at Disney than this one.

[Deep-Thots]

I was promised the rollaway bed not once, but three times: When I made my reservation, when I confirmed my reservation (the night before) and when I checked in. It was only when I arrived at the room was I told -- by a phone message -- that the rollaway was against fire regulations.



By phone message?

Now that's cold. :cold:

[Chuck S]

You should know that upgrades are almost never available at DVC resorts, although staying on cash through CRO increased the chance for that upgrade. People staying on points almost never receive an upgrade, unless a room goes out of service for a problem and the other rooms of that size are already booked.

I'm sorry if CRO promised you a rollaway, but if you are a regular reader of these boards, it has been mentioned repeatedly on the DVC boards that rollaways and air mattresses are not available at DVC resorts. The person to blame for giving you inaccurate info is Disney Reservations, and I would definately write them a letter of complaint stating that CRO promised you a rollaway.

[JimMIA]

Hey, it's Charles Passy (I'm a disboards regular reader in addition to occasionally writing about Dsiney).

I was promised the rollaway bed not once, but three times: When I made my reservation, when I confirmed my reservation (the night before) and when I checked in. It was only when I arrived at the room was I told -- by a phone message -- that the rollaway was against fire regulations.

After some complaining about the situation, I was told they could provide an air mattress for the night (we had a family of four and needed one extra bed). I wasn't thrilled about that, but it was the only option. They agreed to upgrade me to a larger room the following day (they couldn't do it that day because of lack of availability). The upgrade wasn't offered automatically, either, I should note -- I really had to push for it.

In any case, that's the story. Needless to say, I've had better stays at Disney than this one. :rotfl2: :rotfl2:
Only a journalist would reserve a room that doesn't meet their needs...request something the resort doesn't provide to accommodate their mistake...then demand - and get - an upgrade to make up for the resort failing to provide something they are not supposed to provide to fix a problem the guest created...and THEN, write a story complaining about it.

Talk about making lemonade from lemons!!! :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

[Deep-Thots]

:rotfl2: :rotfl2:
Only a journalist would reserve a room that doesn't meet their needs...request something the resort doesn't provide to accommodate their mistake...then demand - and get - an upgrade to make up for the resort failing to provide something they are not supposed to provide to fix a problem the guest created...and THEN, write a story complaining about it.

Talk about making lemonade from lemons!!! :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

It seems to me that Mr. Passy, as a non-DVC member, did everything in his power to try to insure that the room he booked did, in fact, meet his needs. He was told on three separate occasions that it did -- from the horse's mouth, no less. Even if he happened to hear from the DISbaords that he couldn't get a rollaway for the DVC villas, whom would he be more inclined to believe -- us or the horse?

Let's face it: the industry standard is to provide a rollaway upon request (perhaps for a slight charge). They certainly do this for the much smaller rooms at Universal Studios. But perhaps their rooms are fireproof? ;)

[CHOPR]

If the article was in the N.Y. Times it may not be true! :rotfl2:
They have a little problem with something called "truth"! :)

[charlespbg]

I can assure you I did not know rollaway beds were not allowed. And the fact Disney assured me three times that I would have a rollaway made me feel it was guaranteed.

I never mentioned I was a journalist when I booked the reservation or when I called to complain. I was there actually to do a much smaller story about Saratoga Springs itself. It was only when the trip started going so badly that I sensed something larger happening... (And there were many, many more problems, including a completely botched breakfast at another resort.)

As I think I said in the article, I'm as much of a Disney enthusiast as anyone here... But the service I experienced was worse than anything I've encountered anywhere in more than two decades of travel (and writing about travel). I've had good stays at Disney before -- especially at Fort Wilderness (the rental cabins). But what I experienced at SSR really begged the question of what the bigger picture was. I honestly went with no agenda to expose something larger at Disney. Rather, the "something larger" was hard to ignore -- and the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back was a bill with a $750 mistake in Disney's favor (and that took more than an hour to resolve).

[SoCalKDG]

I can assure you I did not know rollaway beds were not allowed. And the fact Disney assured me three times that I would have a rollaway made me feel it was guaranteed.

I never mentioned I was a journalist when I booked the reservation or when I called to complain. I was there actually to do a much smaller story about Saratoga Springs itself. It was only when the trip started going so badly that I sensed something larger happening... (And there were many, many more problems, including a completely botched breakfast at another resort.)

As I think I said in the article, I'm as much of a Disney enthusiast as anyone here... But the service I experienced was worse than anything I've encountered anywhere in more than two decades of travel (and writing about travel). I've had good stays at Disney before -- especially at Fort Wilderness (the rental cabins). But what I experienced at SSR really begged the question of what the bigger picture was. I honestly went with no agenda to expose something larger at Disney. Rather, the "something larger" was hard to ignore -- and the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back was a bill with a $750 mistake in Disney's favor (and that took more than an hour to resolve).I've read your complete article, and while I think you were fair in presenting both sides, the big problem I had was the headline and the first couple of paragraphs. A casual reader may only notice the headline, or just read the first couple of sentances. They then walk away and think, WDW sucks. Reading the complete article sheds additional light on the complete subject and makes a comment on peoples perception. Combine that with the fact that you decided to write the article after a bad trip, as opposed to one of you many good trips.

Its very similar to the way the news recently covered the accident at DCA, in which some news agencies were reporting life serious injuries to 40 people when in fact the cars bumped at approx. 5 MPH.

[mamatojon]

I can assure you I did not know rollaway beds were not allowed. And the fact Disney assured me three times that I would have a rollaway made me feel it was guaranteed.

I never mentioned I was a journalist when I booked the reservation or when I called to complain. I was there actually to do a much smaller story about Saratoga Springs itself. It was only when the trip started going so badly that I sensed something larger happening... (And there were many, many more problems, including a completely botched breakfast at another resort.)

As I think I said in the article, I'm as much of a Disney enthusiast as anyone here... But the service I experienced was worse than anything I've encountered anywhere in more than two decades of travel (and writing about travel). I've had good stays at Disney before -- especially at Fort Wilderness (the rental cabins). But what I experienced at SSR really begged the question of what the bigger picture was. I honestly went with no agenda to expose something larger at Disney. Rather, the "something larger" was hard to ignore -- and the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back was a bill with a $750 mistake in Disney's favor (and that took more than an hour to resolve).

I just read your article - they really refunded your entire stay??? Wow. I have been following the story on one of the other boards (I think the resort board?) about the family at All Stars (is that the same family you referred to?) She has been trying like heck for months to get some sort of fair resolution to that mess. I'm surprised they offered you such a large compensation.

[disneyholic family]

As I think I said in the article, I'm as much of a Disney enthusiast as anyone here... But the service I experienced was worse than anything I've encountered anywhere in more than two decades of travel (and writing about travel). I've had good stays at Disney before --

as you can tell from my signature, we are disney enthusiasts and have spent a lot of time at WDW, and i have to say that for the first time this year (2 weeks ago) we had a few non-disney like experiences....
i was actually quite shocked, but i wrote it off to CM stress due to the extreme heat and crowds....
on two different occasions we had encounters with extremely unpleasant CMs in guest services (at the MK and Epcot)....this was a total shock as the CMs in guest services are usually the best of the best....

most of our resort stays this year were great (specifically OKW and WL concierge), but our Contemporary Resort 14th floor concierge was not at all up to disney quality (not even motel 6 quality for that matter). And considering that I was paying $1120/night for a one bedroom suite there, that's truly shocking. We were supposed to stay there for 5 days, but checked out after 2 because we were so disappointed in the sub-standard quality. That's when we switched to the WL, which brought us back to the disney magic.

[Deep-Thots]

I've read your complete article, and while I think you were fair in presenting both sides, the big problem I had was the headline and the first couple of paragraphs. A casual reader may only notice the headline, or just read the first couple of sentances.

This is "SOP" for journalism: it is the bait used to lure the reader in for, hopefully, the whole article. You yourself admit that the article in its entirety was fair. In all honesty, what more could you ask for? :confused3

[lllovell]

Weren't you the author looking for input about Disney's lack of service a few months back for an article? I remember posts about this, so I am a little sceptical in you having so many things go badly - - - to me you were setting yourself up for that. Sort of the same things as a thesis proving what you want it to when you do your research in a certain light. ( here is the link to one of those requests http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=833310 and almost all of your "posts" were about this - so I suppose you are a lurker which is why you would call yourself a regular here). Let me say that you did ask for both sides of the "customer service" story from people, but what I saw was amazingly positive overall.

That said, there is obviously a serious gap between CRO and DVC and in all sorts of other areas (like the recent roll out of the new AP program which some CM's hadn't even heard of in advance so they were clueless when people called CRO to inquire about it). Disney does need to 1. do a better job getting the news out BEFORE things are released and 2. do a better job training those directly responsible to ask for questions if they are unsure of an answer - not simply tell the guest what they "think" is acceptable. I think a lot of Disney's problem is people like us - the obsessive ones - the ones that must know every little change and detail BEFORE it hits the mainstream news...without a doubt, people of the DIS know way more than the common man about Disney and new programs, etc.

Glad you got your article published - good for you. I do wish you had gone into things with a more open mind.

Laura

[Chuck S]

But good news rarely sells. ;)

[lllovell]

But good news rarely sells. ;)

In that vein - Reading State of Fear right now by Michael Crichton. Very interesting book - and it is about environmental issues and people's concerns (and how they are unfounded - which I haven't researched outside of this fictional book setting, but it most certainly has a substantial bit of "resources" quoted) and how selling "fear" is big business (and also keeps people "in line" - - - my personal example would be buying into the Patriot Act as a necessity when in reality, we are pretty dang safe in this country. Sex sells - so do violence and "fears".) Anyway - interesting read so far.

I am not saying this author is guilty of this, but simply agreeing with Chuck's post....a big fluffy piece on WDW would not have sold as well as a "Walt is probably rolling in his grave" piece.

Also - I am biased as hell about Disney but not a polyanna. I can see flaws and to me about 90% of them are with the people attending WDW, not WDW itself (but biased - I readily admit).

Laura

[charlespbg]

I don't know how I can make this any clearer: I did go in with an open mind. The piece I was originally supposed to write was a short thing on SSR, looking at its rooms, amenities, etc. It was only when the trip went so badly -- again, the worst hotel stay in my entire life -- that I began to wonder if this was evident of something larger within Disney. And having known about Roy Disney's concerns -- and then having read "Disney War" -- I began to question if what I experienced was connected to a larger corporate problem within Disney.

Perhaps my trip was just one bad example. But there do seem to be some other bad examples out there... And there are the good ones, too. I tried to balance it out as best as possible.

[Judique]

I don't know how I can make this any clearer: I did go in with an open mind. The piece I was originally supposed to write was a short thing on SSR, looking at its rooms, amenities, etc. It was only when the trip went so badly -- again, the worst hotel stay in my entire life -- that I began to wonder if this was evident of something larger within Disney. And having known about Roy Disney's concerns -- and then having read "Disney War" -- I began to question if what I experienced was connected to a larger corporate problem within Disney.

Perhaps my trip was just one bad example. But there do seem to be some other bad examples out there... And there are the good ones, too. I tried to balance it out as best as possible.


Okay...I was reading along and going along and not really agreeing/disagreeing one way or another until you wrote 'again, the worst hotel stay in my entire life.'

Come on, guy - get real. That cost you any kind of credibility you may have created in my mind. In two decades of travel (as you stated) this was your worst stay? What a privileged life you've led!

You had four people and sleeping accommodations for four people. You wanted a rollaway for whatever reason. You didn't get a rollaway and this ruined your whole stay?? You were in a one bedroom villa, according to your article. I think 'you' were most of the problem here. Lack of research. I am totally offended that you got any kind of a refund.

[charlespbg]

Yes, it was the worst stay -- and, no, I've not led a "privileged" life.

The rollaway bed -- promised three times -- was just one issue. But the fact the promised substitution -- an air mattress -- didn't arrive when it was supposed to (by around 9 p.m.) was very irksome. (I had to make a couple of more calls.) In any case, I don't think if you're paying $300-plus a night and are told you're going to get a rollaway bed that you should have to fight for it.

Being woken by a manager at 1 a.m. was another issue.

Having to ask three times for a computer internet cable, which many hotels just place in the room, was another.

Having to deal with construction noise was another. (Not a huge issue for me, but again, I can't believe I was not informed so much construction would be going on.)

There were plenty of smaller things -- no person manning the front desk when I checked in (at the height of check-in time -- 4 p.m.); again, that's unheard of for almost any hotel in any price category. The computers went down in the restaurant one morning, so purchasing a couple of items for breakfast took 20 minutes. And as I believe I mentioned earlier, I had a completely botched breakfast at another resort.

But what really amazed me was how management seemed disinterested and incapable of responding properly throughout my stay.

In any case, nothing pales in comparison to being overcharged $750 -- and then having to fight with managers for an hour to get the bill corrected. I'm sorry, that just doesn't happen at Motel 6...

[idratherbeinwdw]

Okay...I was reading along and going along and not really agreeing/disagreeing one way or another until you wrote 'again, the worst hotel stay in my entire life.'

Come on, guy - get real. That cost you any kind of credibility you may have created in my mind. In two decades of travel (as you stated) this was your worst stay? What a privileged life you've led!

You had four people and sleeping accommodations for four people. You wanted a rollaway for whatever reason. You didn't get a rollaway and this ruined your whole stay?? You were in a one bedroom villa, according to your article. I think 'you' were most of the problem here. Lack of research. I am totally offended that you got any kind of a refund.

Hear, Hear! What was the refund for? I find it impossible to believe you didn't mention your status as a reporter, because nothing that happened seemed that awful to me. I am not saying Disney doesn't screw up, but what happened to you seems relatively minor, and certainly not worthy of a full refund.

I also find it hard to believe you were told by 3 separate people that rollaways were available. Getting one inexperienced CM is possible, but getting 3 seems way off the charts as far as odds go. I don't work at WDW and I know they don't allow rollaways in the villas, so it seems very unlikely you are giving us the whole truth.

Deb from allears.net is quoted in your original article, and she makes some excellent points. What used to be "bonus" perks (ie towel animals) have now become the expectation since folks read about those things online and have the attitude of "why them why not me?". Many of the complaints folks have are because someone else got something extra and they didn't--which is not the same as having a real problem.

The original article also mentioned the woman at the allstars crying because she didn't get connecting rooms. When you call to make a reservation they always tell you a request is just that--a request and cannot be guaranteed. Evidently she had a child with special needs--did she get a doctor's letter attesting to that? If she did then she should have been able to get the request and WDW was wrong IMO. If not, then she would be treated like the rest of us. You said they DID find her acceptable rooms in "a remote part of the resort" in a building filled with "noisy teenagers". What would you have them do, kick someone out of a room to accomodate her? The resort is not that large, so even a "remote" building is not that bad. Someone reading the article would think she was miles away, when in actuality that is far from the truth. And as far as a building full of noisy teenagers-I strongly doubt there were only teenagers in that building. The allstars are known for large school groups, so whatever building she was in may have had a large number of teens, but surely not the entire building. I wonder if she got the connecting rooms right away if any of the other issues would have even been brought up had they existed.

I honestly am NOT one of those "Disney can do no wrong" people. I know they mess up, as do all businesses. But your worst hotel stay ever? Where do you usually stay, the Waldorf Astoria? If you are saying your stay at SSR was worse than a motel 6 I don't believe it for a second. You didn't say there were rodents, floods, the bed collapsed, or any truly awful things. If you are wealthy enough and lucky enough to stay at 5 star resorts all the time, then maybe this was "slumming" for you. Count your blessings if that's the case.

Like Judique, I really resent you getting all your money back when you were moved to a 2BR at no extra charge. I am sure in spite of the glitches that in the end you were satisfied, so why did you deserve to pay nothing??? Honestly I don't think you deserved a penny back. I am willing to bet when you say "no one was manning the desk" that your wait for someone to show up was no more than a couple of minutes. Yes it must have been annoying to be called at 1AM and to have to ask for the cable three times, and to have been overcharged--but a full refund? Come on!

[disneyholic family]

Yes, it was the worst stay -- and, no, I've not led a "privileged" life.

The rollaway bed -- promised three times -- was just one issue. But the fact the promised substitution -- an air mattress -- didn't arrive when it was supposed to (by around 9 p.m.) was very irksome. (I had to make a couple of more calls.) In any case, I don't think if you're paying $300-plus a night and are told you're going to get a rollaway bed that you should have to fight for it.

Being woken by a manager at 1 a.m. was another issue.

Having to ask three times for a computer internet cable, which many hotels just place in the room, was another.

Having to deal with construction noise was another. (Not a huge issue for me, but again, I can't believe I was not informed so much construction would be going on.)

There were plenty of smaller things -- no person manning the front desk when I checked in (at the height of check-in time -- 4 p.m.); again, that's unheard of for almost any hotel in any price category. The computers went down in the restaurant one morning, so purchasing a couple of items for breakfast took 20 minutes. And as I believe I mentioned earlier, I had a completely botched breakfast at another resort.

But what really amazed me was how management seemed disinterested and incapable of responding properly throughout my stay.

In any case, nothing pales in comparison to being overcharged $750 -- and then having to fight with managers for an hour to get the bill corrected. I'm sorry, that just doesn't happen at Motel 6...

this is indicative of an overall management problem....it's good you wrote the article......perhaps disney was unaware of this problem at SSR....they'll get on it...
a few years back there was a problem at the GF....it was the year they took all the experienced GF CMs and sent them to work at the brand new AKL....so the service at the AKL that year was stupendous, while that at the GF was worse than bad.....but it's my understanding that many guests brought the low quality service to the attention of senior disney managment (not GF management, but higher than that)....the following year, service was not only back to the original GF standard, but even better than before....
so in the long run, bringing problems like these to the attention of disney management is a good thing...

[lllovell]

I agree that the things that happened shouldn't have happened. I also think what you are saying is the same as what comes off from the "uninformed" traveler. You said you were a long time visitor to the parks, yet you seemed not to have much info about SSR. We are VERY well informed here on the DIS which makes us "non-main stream" for sure, but your article and subsequent posts sound a bit like the traveler that goes in the heat of July, making no advance plans, getting to the parks at 11 or later and then says "what a waste of money".

Mistakes do happen and I sure NONE of us want them happening to us (especially if there are multiple issues in one trip). I don't know if I am glad they refunded your money, because, like you, I would have rather seen them taking care of the issues right then and there (and because ultimately - you just cost all of us money being that SSR is a DVC resort...we pay those bills when someone else doesn't).

Your slant was "things are bad" at Disney. You had a bad trip. You came here asking for "opinions" and MOST were "we love it!" and none were quoted for sure. You quoted only negative things. That was your piece. I again say you wanted people to support your "bad trip experience" and you got it.

DVC members "own" that part of Disney which is DVC and we are quite protective of it. If you have really read here, you will see huge battles about resorts BETWEEN members. You don't have to defend your article to us, but expecting people to support you about it HERE on the DVC home of the DIS isn't going to happen either.

[JimMIA]

Yes, it was the worst stay -- and, no, I've not led a "privileged" life.

The rollaway bed -- promised three times -- was just one issue. But the fact the promised substitution -- an air mattress -- didn't arrive when it was supposed to (by around 9 p.m.) was very irksome. (I had to make a couple of more calls.) In any case, I don't think if you're paying $300-plus a night and are told you're going to get a rollaway bed that you should have to fight for it.

Being woken by a manager at 1 a.m. was another issue.

Having to ask three times for a computer internet cable, which many hotels just place in the room, was another.

Having to deal with construction noise was another. (Not a huge issue for me, but again, I can't believe I was not informed so much construction would be going on.)

There were plenty of smaller thingsI don't mean to pile on here, but I would like to get this straight in my own mind...the items above were the BIG things???

The reason I ask is a very wise mentor of mine once told me, "You can tell the size of a man by the size of the things that make him mad."

[charlespbg]

Depends what you mean by BIG things. Did a ceiling fan fall on my head? No. Did a manager curse at me? No.

But lots of hassles add up. And I would say the billing mistake was a BIG thing.

As for questions about the refund, no, I never identified myself as a journalist. I just made the case to manager after manager about problems -- and finally spoke with a senior-level manager upon my return. She offered the full refund.

For what it's worth, most hospitality experts I spoke with said that a full refund would be the least a guest is owed after my kind of stay. If anything, they suggested a full refund AND an offer to return for a free night or two would probably be the correct response. The goal is to not just make up for what was wrong, but to convince the customer that you can get it right in the future.

But, no, I don't expect everyone on these boards to agree with me... Just trying to give a bit more information to round things out.

[lllovell]

and my favorite thing in the article....

The picture through the chain link fence (which 99% have green covering so as to keep the construction dust, noise, etc to a minimum) that has the caption underneath it....

"Though still under construction, Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa, in Orlando, is taking guests. "

When everyone goes to SSR in the next several months, if your room is in an uncompleted building, please pick up your paint brush and tool belt at check in to help with the progress. :rotfl: NO ONE IS ALLOWED IN THOSE AREAS NOR ARE THEY FOR OCCUPANCY unlike what the above quote and picture implies to me.

[JimMIA]

And I would say the billing mistake was a BIG thing.
In an effort to be "Fair and Balanced" :rotfl2: , I'll agree that a $750 error on the bill is a big mistake.

However, mistakes do happen. I don't know how much you know about accounting, but accounting mistakes pretty much have to be in one direction or the other. It's that whole debit/credit thing...don't ask.

There was a 50-50 chance the error would be to your detriment, so if you fixate on that, you're really missing the point.

This issue to me - and it is not at all clear in your article or posts - is how was that mistake resolved?

Was it resolved quickly, politely, and without much fuss? Did they say you were nuts, and refuse to make any adjustment? Did they try hard to fix the problem, but have difficulties with their clunky accounting system?

You haven't told us the scenario - just OHMYGOD! A $750 error...and it's in THEIR favor!!!!!

If the CM's refused to admit a mistake had been made, or gave you a hard time about a measly $750 adjustment, I'd say you have a real complaint.

If they tried hard, but couldn't make the accounting system fix the mistake, then both you and the CM's have a complaint against Disney.

If it was just a stupid mistake which was immediately corrected without much aggravation, I really can't see getting all worked up over it.

P.S. You're not going to believe this, but I was traveling last week and actually had to walk all the way to the front desk of a very fine hotel to get an ethernet cable -- and then, they charged me $10 to use it!

[JerJan]

When I was at SSR my "HOME RESORT" in January 2005 I had requested a NON-SMOKING room for medical reasons both of my DD's ages 13 and 5 have asthma. Guess what???? I got a non-smoking room that had been smoked in! When I complained about it you know what I got?????? NOTHING, just an I'm sorry, well send in mousekeeping to spray. If your therory was to hold true I should have been upgraded from my 2 bedroom to a Grand Villa and refunded all of my points........It didn't happen, wonder why? :confused3

[charlespbg]

Hate to keep dragging this out, but to answer your question:

No, it was not resolved quickly... I think I mentioned it before. It took about an hour to resolve. The first person at desk (who was "earning her ears") simply denied the problem. The manager who then came pretty much made me do the math to convince him there was a mistake. And then, it took a third person (a higher-level manager) to review everything... The burden seemed to be on me to fully document the mistake.

[JimMIA]

When I was at SSR my "HOME RESORT" in January 2005 I had requested a NON-SMOKING room for medical reasons both of my DD's ages 13 and 5 have asthma. Guess what???? I got a non-smoking room that had been smoked in! When I complained about it you know what I got?????? NOTHING, just an I'm sorry, well send in mousekeeping to spray. If your therory was to hold true I should have been upgraded from my 2 bedroom to a Grand Villa and refunded all of my points........It didn't happen, wonder why? :confused3
Now, see...THAT's a REAL problem!

Certainly the CM's checking you in had no way of knowing that a guest had smoked in a non-smoking room. But once they knew, they should have moved you somewhere. Spraying perfume doesn't do a thing for a kid with asthma.

You should call the same guy Charles called and raise a fuss. They DO owe you a refund, or some kind of significant consideration.

***
One interesting, but completely useless, observation from my trip out West last week. I stayed in two hotels with interesting smoking policies.

One of them had a $150 additional charge if you smoked in a non-smoking room, and the other had a $200 extra charge! I thought it was just a "paper policy," but when I asked, both front desk crews told me they did indeed enforce that policy. They'd had guests contest credit card bills afterward, but they'd stuck to their guns and collected the fees. At the $150-charge hotel, they told me they'd originally charged $100, but people just paid the $100, so they had to raise it to $150.

[Chuck S]

The manager who then came pretty much made me do the math to convince him there was a mistake.

Do the math? Are you saying that there was an error in addition on the bill...or that it was an individual line item/room charge (which should have been easily identified by just looking at it)? I had a problem once where OKWs computer system went down in the middle of a charge. We were at EPCOT purchasing APs, so we just put them on another card. When the room bill came, the charge had also gone through as a room charge when the system came back online. We showed the front desk the credit card receipt for the exact same amount at the same day and time and it was taken care of right away.

I guess what I'd like to know, was it a computer glitch type charge that wouldn't have been easily caught, or a very obvious double charge of something posting twice, or a charge that appeared on the bill that you never made like a card reader read the account number incorrectly?

[Judique]

In an effort to be "Fair and Balanced" :rotfl2: , I'll agree that a $750 error on the bill is a big mistake.

However, mistakes do happen. I don't know how much you know about accounting, but accounting mistakes pretty much have to be in one direction or the other. It's that whole debit/credit thing...don't ask.

There was a 50-50 chance the error would be to your detriment, so if you fixate on that, you're really missing the point.

This issue to me - and it is not at all clear in your article or posts - is how was that mistake resolved?

Was it resolved quickly, politely, and without much fuss? Did they say you were nuts, and refuse to make any adjustment? Did they try hard to fix the problem, but have difficulties with their clunky accounting system?

You haven't told us the scenario - just OHMYGOD! A $750 error...and it's in THEIR favor!!!!!

If the CM's refused to admit a mistake had been made, or gave you a hard time about a measly $750 adjustment, I'd say you have a real complaint.

If they tried hard, but couldn't make the accounting system fix the mistake, then both you and the CM's have a complaint against Disney.

If it was just a stupid mistake which was immediately corrected without much aggravation, I really can't see getting all worked up over it.

P.S. You're not going to believe this, but I was traveling last week and actually had to walk all the way to the front desk of a very fine hotel to get an ethernet cable -- and then, they charged me $10 to use it!

I had to crawl under the desk of my $300 a night hotel in the city of Boston 2 nights ago to find my ethernet cable! And, I also got charged $10 plus tax for using it.

Has anyone here EVER heard of a member getting an air mattress? For that matter, I can't remember rollaways being available in any Disney Resort, not just vacation club resorts.

My other regret: once I was in Marrakech sitting in a bar of a nice hotel and the casablanca style fan DID fall off and hit me in the head! Too bad I was too young and inexperienced at the time to realize I could have gotten a couple of free stays! Just kidding - I wasn't injured - just surprised as the fan blade glanced off me. Woke me up from daydreaming that Bogey had just walked through the door................

[JimMIA]

Hate to keep dragging this out, but to answer your question:

No, it was not resolved quickly... I think I mentioned it before. It took about an hour to resolve. The first person at desk (who was "earning her ears") simply denied the problem. The manager who then came pretty much made me do the math to convince him there was a mistake. And then, it took a third person (a higher-level manager) to review everything... The burden seemed to be on me to fully document the mistake.
I'm sorry, but that's a nothing complaint. You had a newbie who didn't get it; you had to explain it again to her manager. What's your complaint?

The second manager reviewing a $750 reversal is nothing more than a routine accounting control. I'd be much more concerned if there was NOT that kind of review on a $750 reversal by the front desk crew.

I'm sorry you had a bad vacation, but frankly, I can't help but think you're hyperventilating over nothing.

Other than the $750 mistake which was rectified in a reasonable manner, I don't see anything here I would even complain about. Maybe the reason you had to complain to "manager after manager" was that they didn't see any substance to your complaints, and therefore, weren't telling you what you wanted to hear.

Sure, many hotels can provide rollaways, although I don't think I've ever had one guaranteed...but guess what? Saratoga Springs is NOT a hotel; it's a timeshare.

[idratherbeinwdw]

Has anyone here EVER heard of a member getting an air mattress? For that matter, I can't remember rollaways being available in any Disney Resort, not just vacation club resorts.

No I have never heard of anyone getting at a DVC resort being given an air mattress, so if what the OP says is true they really were bending over backwards to be helpful. And the reason I questioned the OP being "promised" a rollaway was I never heard of one being available at any WDW resort. Certainly not available in the allstars, pop century, port orleans or the polynesian, all resorts I have stayed in and asked for a rollaway. Each time I was told they are fire hazards and not allowed.

Something does not add up here. Is it just me, or do other people here have experiences knowing the "real" story and seeing glaring errors in newspaper reports of the story?

[Judique]

No I have never heard of anyone getting at a DVC resort being given an air mattress, so if what the OP says is true they really were bending over backwards to be helpful. And the reason I questioned the OP being "promised" a rollaway was I never heard of one being available at any WDW resort. Certainly not available in the allstars, pop century, port orleans or the polynesian, all resorts I have stayed in and asked for a rollaway. Each time I was told they are fire hazards and not allowed.

Something does not add up here. Is it just me, or do other people here have experiences knowing the "real" story and seeing glaring errors in newspaper reports of the story?

No, it's not just you. The rollaway story is odd, and the $750 mistake has not been detailed. Most complaints we hear can somehow be identified with. I am starting to wonder if the visit ever took place.

[mamatojon]

The original article also mentioned the woman at the allstars crying because she didn't get connecting rooms. When you call to make a reservation they always tell you a request is just that--a request and cannot be guaranteed. Evidently she had a child with special needs--did she get a doctor's letter attesting to that? If she did then she should have been able to get the request and WDW was wrong IMO. If not, then she would be treated like the rest of us. You said they DID find her acceptable rooms in "a remote part of the resort" in a building filled with "noisy teenagers". What would you have them do, kick someone out of a room to accomodate her? The resort is not that large, so even a "remote" building is not that bad. Someone reading the article would think she was miles away, when in actuality that is far from the truth. And as far as a building full of noisy teenagers-I strongly doubt there were only teenagers in that building. The allstars are known for large school groups, so whatever building she was in may have had a large number of teens, but surely not the entire building. I wonder if she got the connecting rooms right away if any of the other issues would have even been brought up had they existed.

If in fact this is the same woman posting on these boards about her problems the situation was actually way more complex than what he wrote in his article. I wish I could remember which board it is on, maybe the community board? It is a long drawn out story which basically was made worse because of the way she was treated by the CMs and then after she got home.

Anyways, I'm not arguing with anything you said at all, just wanted to clarify that it wasn't as simple as it seemed. :flower: I really wish I could find that thread. :badpc:

[lllovell]

If in fact this is the same woman posting on these boards about her problems the situation was actually way more complex than what he wrote in his article. I wish I could remember which board it is on, maybe the community board? It is a long drawn out story which basically was made worse because of the way she was treated by the CMs and then after she got home.

Anyways, I'm not arguing with anything you said at all, just wanted to clarify that it wasn't as simple as it seemed. :flower: I really wish I could find that thread. :badpc:

If someone finds it - please post the thread. I would be very interesting in reading it (because breaking down crying in the hotel lobby at the very beginning of a trip sounds like there was something else going on - that was probably not Disney related).

Again, this points to MOST of the people that responded to his "board plea for help" were positive and yet he picked (with the exception of one) stories that were "horror" stories. He chose what he wanted to report - its what reporters do, but don't be so surprised when it raises a ruckus.

[cherylp3]

Here is the link to the ASMU person that had problems.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=785797

[sprite]

The original article also mentioned the woman at the allstars crying because she didn't get connecting rooms. When you call to make a reservation they always tell you a request is just that--a request and cannot be guaranteed. Evidently she had a child with special needs--did she get a doctor's letter attesting to that? If she did then she should have been able to get the request and WDW was wrong IMO. If not, then she would be treated like the rest of us.



Here is a link to the thread in question:
All Star Music Woes

I followed this thread about the All Star Music problem because I was staying there in July and also had guaranteed connecting rooms. When I made the reservations, the CM said our connecting rooms were guaranteed because we were one family traveling with four children. It is very frustrating to be told you have guaranteed connecting rooms, have it printed on your reservation confirmation (GUARANTEED CONNECTING ROOMS FOR FAMILIES), and then be told it's not "really" guaranteed when you arrive at the resort.

We did get our connecting rooms, btw, and had a great trip. :teeth: But the CM did make a point of telling us she was giving us our "request" and connecting rooms are not "really" guaranteed.

One other thing we noticed, on the back of the door at All Star Music, there was a blurb about getting a roll-away bed and how much it cost. We couldn't figure out how someone could fit a roll-away bed in that room. :confused3

[lllovell]

Here is the link to the ASMU person that had problems.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=785797

Thanks Cheryl

[JerJan]

Now, see...THAT's a REAL problem!

Certainly the CM's checking you in had no way of knowing that a guest had smoked in a non-smoking room. But once they knew, they should have moved you somewhere. Spraying perfume doesn't do a thing for a kid with asthma.

You should call the same guy Charles called and raise a fuss. They DO owe you a refund, or some kind of significant consideration.

***
One interesting, but completely useless, observation from my trip out West last week. I stayed in two hotels with interesting smoking policies.

One of them had a $150 additional charge if you smoked in a non-smoking room, and the other had a $200 extra charge! I thought it was just a "paper policy," but when I asked, both front desk crews told me they did indeed enforce that policy. They'd had guests contest credit card bills afterward, but they'd stuck to their guns and collected the fees. At the $150-charge hotel, they told me they'd originally charged $100, but people just paid the $100, so they had to raise it to $150.

So Charles...who did you call? I would really like to talk to the same person that gave you a FULL REFUND and an upgrade when I got NADA!!!! :confused3

[ErinC]

I just wanted to comment that you can indeed get a rollaway at some of the regular Disney resorts. We had one at Port Orleans (French Quarter) last year. One DD was sick and I didn't want her sleeping with the other DD, so they sent me a roll away. I think that I ended up paying $15 a night for it.

[lllovell]

OK - so I read the post from the lady at the All Stars with the problems. I was not aware of this "family" policy where they will make guaranteed requests for families with more than 4 children, but it seems like the rest of the world is getting a taste of what DVCers have gotten all alone - REQUESTS ARE NOT GUARANTEED.

The difference in this woman's case is that she has a special needs child and went through Special SErvices (a group I didn't know existed). The gave her everything she asked for except a connecting rooms (which I am kinda getting the CM read as "adjacent" rooms...not connecting and we know there is a difference). Disney DID respond to this lady, but it was not what she wanted and she has been attempting every since to get a better resolution. (sadly, I really don't know if one is coming or not....and I am not 100% sure she is deserving). There was a VERY simple solution to all of her problems. One of the adults sleep in the other room. I realize its would not have been ideal, but there is NO WAY I would have let my whole vacation disolve into shambles because of this and I still would have gone through the proper channels to voice my concerns and complaints, but it seems to me like she let this ruin her whole vacation. I am sorry her family had ANY problems, but life is full of issues and only you can decide how to deal with them.

Flame at will - I am sure my comments seem insensitive to some and they aren't meant to be...but Disney did deal with her in the way they saw fit which indicates to me that there are probably pieces missing to this story. It also goes on to indicate how interesting it is that Mr. Passy got his whole trip refunded when he says he didn't mention he was a writer. Maybe it is all in the cards as to who you get on the phone. I certainly would have thought he would have given her the phone number of the person HE delt with so she could take a stab at getting her money back if she is truly deserving.

[idratherbeinwdw]

I just wanted to comment that you can indeed get a rollaway at some of the regular Disney resorts. We had one at Port Orleans (French Quarter) last year. One DD was sick and I didn't want her sleeping with the other DD, so they sent me a roll away. I think that I ended up paying $15 a night for it.

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. I believe you, but I wonder why they don't allow it at the poly since the rooms are bigger there. :confused3 Or maybe they do now, I haven't asked since my first stay at the poly in 1998 when they said no.

When I stayed at PO Riverside, it was called Dixie Landings and I was not able to get a rollaway. That was in 1993, not sure if the policy changed or if it was a difference between POR and POFQ.

So has anyone staying at a DVC resort been able to get a rollaway? Or an air mattress? (Other than the OP)

Other parts of the article I find unclear/misleading:

The pic of the steps with the paint peeling. It doesn't say when it was taken. Not long ago The Times had pic of Spaceship earth taken recently, you could tell because the mickey arm and wand were there. The photo was captioned "Epcot Opens, 1982". It didn't bother me, it WAS a pic of Epcot, but it made me wonder how often newspapers use a caption with a photo that doesn't really "match" the timeframe of the caption. These photos with the article by Mr. Passy makes me wonder the all the more. It is implied that the photo is recent, since it doesn't say otherwise. Elsewhere, the article quotes a March 2004 Orlando Sentinel article mentioning peeling paint. Why the quote from an article almost a year and a half old, are there no recent quotes? Perhaps that means they fixed the problem?

Another misleading part of the article, was the reference to the safety of WDW attractions. Mr. Passy mentions concerns abour ride safety "in the wake of recent scares connected to such attractions as Mission Space at Epcot Park and the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror at Disney-MGM studios, including the death of a 4 year old boy after riding Mission:Space". Nowhere is it mentioned, that, after much investigation by public officials, that the rides WERE safe and that whatever happened to the child and to the girl on TOT was not due to any negligence by WDW. (I know that DL in Cal HAS had some safety issues, but that is not part of this article so I am not addressing that here).

Is Disney perfect? Will every vacation be pure Magic? Of course not. But I agree with Laura (lllovell), Mr. Passy's article was slanted.

Mar'

[mamatojon]

OK - so I read the post from the lady at the All Stars with the problems. I was not aware of this "family" policy where they will make guaranteed requests for families with more than 4 children, but it seems like the rest of the world is getting a taste of what DVCers have gotten all alone - REQUESTS ARE NOT GUARANTEED.

The difference in this woman's case is that she has a special needs child and went through Special SErvices (a group I didn't know existed). The gave her everything she asked for except a connecting rooms (which I am kinda getting the CM read as "adjacent" rooms...not connecting and we know there is a difference). Disney DID respond to this lady, but it was not what she wanted and she has been attempting every since to get a better resolution. (sadly, I really don't know if one is coming or not....and I am not 100% sure she is deserving). There was a VERY simple solution to all of her problems. One of the adults sleep in the other room. I realize its would not have been ideal, but there is NO WAY I would have let my whole vacation disolve into shambles because of this and I still would have gone through the proper channels to voice my concerns and complaints, but it seems to me like she let this ruin her whole vacation. I am sorry her family had ANY problems, but life is full of issues and only you can decide how to deal with them.

Flame at will - I am sure my comments seem insensitive to some and they aren't meant to be...but Disney did deal with her in the way they saw fit which indicates to me that there are probably pieces missing to this story. It also goes on to indicate how interesting it is that Mr. Passy got his whole trip refunded when he says he didn't mention he was a writer. Maybe it is all in the cards as to who you get on the phone. I certainly would have thought he would have given her the phone number of the person HE delt with so she could take a stab at getting her money back if she is truly deserving.

No flames from me, I kind of feel the same way with one exception. I think somewhere in there she said that her husband was gone for two nights so she really couldn't have the kids alone in the next room. Plus, I think that she was treated really poorly in general. But I do agree that I'd try to not let it ruin the whole vacation.

My big issue is the redefining of the word guarantee. If a company says something is guaranteed then darn it, it shoud be guaranteed. They can't just say, "well, I know it *says* guaranteed, but that's not really what it *means*" That is really poor customer service. They should just not guarantee things, rather than have to dissapoint people. That is why I like what DVC does, I have yet to hear anyone say that DVC guaranteed them anything, LOL. They seem to always reiterate that you are making "requests".

[crisi]

Sounds to me like the OP expected to stay in a hotel with hotel service. And booking through CRO this seems like a reasonable expectation. But SSR isn't a hotel, its a timeshare. And leaving ethernet cables in the room so they can be replaced after every guest uses them and throws them back in their laptop case is not how I want my dues spent (placemats, anyone?). Nor do I really want the wear and tear on rooms or the maintenance involved in rollaways. But as a member I have the expectation that these things won't be available and can understand why. If you book through CRO you are going to have hotel expectations.

[dis-happy]

Refund fairness debates aside, who wants to discuss where that air mattress came from? My guess: a DVCer brought it, used it, and left it, then mousekeeping later tucked it away somewhere (and it took them awhile to find it---"hmmm, I know it's around here someplace" :confused3 ). Just a merry thought....

[JimMIA]

Refund fairness debates aside, who wants to discuss where that air mattress came from? My guess: a DVCer brought it, used it, and left it, then mousekeeping later tucked it away somewhere (and it took them awhile to find it---"hmmm, I know it's around here someplace" :confused3 ). Just a merry thought....
Or someone pitched such a hissy-fit that they sent the junior CM to Wal-Mart to buy one to make the problem go away!

[JerJan]

Or someone pitched such a hissy-fit that they sent the junior CM to Wal-Mart to buy one to make the problem go away!

:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

[JimMIA]

My big issue is the redefining of the word guarantee. If a company says something is guaranteed then darn it, it shoud be guaranteed. They can't just say, "well, I know it *says* guaranteed, but that's not really what it *means*" That is really poor customer service.You're absolutely right Mama. Unfortunately, when people in service industries do that, making a big point out of saying "It's really only a request...but I'm gonna let you have it," they often think they are giving good service. They're wrong, of course, but I can understand a CM thinking they were doing the right thing.

They think the guest will appreciate their kindness and consideration; instead, 99% of the time, the guest will be left with the impression that a) they've been lied to, and b) the CM has a huge chip on their shoulder.

If someone is expecting connecting rooms, and you can give them to the guest, the only correct response is "Oh yes, of course they're connecting." THAT is good service.

[JimMIA]

:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:
Laugh all you want -- that's what really happens in the real world. "We have some serious issues to deal with...let's make this mosquito go away!"

[rinkwide]

...bringing problems like these to the attention of disney management is a good thing...Agreed, particularly when the "attention" is in the form of an article in a national newspaper.

You can bet Jim Lewis and DVC managment have read The Time's piece in question and are probably huddled-up right now assessing how they can improve the overall guest experience. They will certainly want to avoid additional recognition of this kind in the future. To me it seems obvious that our membership can only benefit from these developments.

With this in mind, I would say we all owe Mr. Passy a great big <i>thank you</i>. (Ah, but as a defensive "owner" it's much easier to just shoot the messenger ;) .)

[CarolMN]

...(snip)....With this in mind, I would say we all owe Mr. Passy a great big <i>thank you</i>........ But not if it results in air mattresses being made available upon request, LOL! :teeth:

Best wishes -

[idratherbeinwdw]

Agreed, particularly when the "attention" is in the form of an article in a national newspaper.

You can bet Jim Lewis and DVC managment have read The Time's piece in question and are probably huddled-up right now assessing how they can improve the overall guest experience. They will certainly want to avoid additional recognition of this kind in the future. To me it seems obvious that our membership can only benefit from these developments.

With this in mind, I would say we all owe Mr. Passy a great big thank you. (Ah, but as a defensive "owner" it's much easier to just shoot the messenger ;) .)

I agree that anything that causes improvements at WDW is a good thing. So perhaps I will thank Mr. Passy for that. But I still stand by my previous comments, the article was slanted and full of half truths.

[cruise-o-matic]

Could someone post the article...or would the Times have a fit?

[lllovell]

Its posted in a couple of other threads here - hang on Cruise, I will find it for you.

Some Ask if the Disney Magic Is Slipping
By CHARLES PASSY
Published: July 31, 2005

MAYBE it was the rollaway bed that didn't materialize because it was suddenly deemed a fire hazard.

Or maybe it was the air mattress that surfaced in its place with a pile of bedding that included 20 - yes, 20 - pillowcases and one sheet.

Or maybe it was the manager who called and apologized for the mistakes - at nearly 1 a.m.

But as tipping points go, it was hard to top the bill with a $750 error - in the resort's favor. Such a mistake was proof positive that something was terribly amiss, leaving my wife and me to ask, "What kind of a Mickey Mouse operation is this?"

It was a question meant in the most literal sense. We weren't staying at some budget motel off the Interstate. We were spending more than $300 a night for a one-bedroom "turn-of-the-century style vacation villa" at Walt Disney World's one-year-old Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa. But we were experiencing little of the celebrated Disney "magic," that bend-over-backward brand of service. Instead, our family vacation was turning into a part-nightmarish, part-comical adventure that I quickly took to describing as Disney meets "Fawlty Towers" meets the "Twilight Zone."

And apparently, we weren't the only ones on this ride. To hear some other guests tell similar stories of inept service at Disney World theme parks and resorts is to realize the Mouse may no longer be as mighty.

As Disney marks the 50th birthday of its first theme park - Disneyland in California - with a companywide 18-month celebration that began in May, it is facing great scrutiny, particularly when it comes to Walt Disney World - a 30,000-plus-acre complex in Florida that comprises four theme parks and more than 20 resorts and that attracted 40.5 million visitors in 2004, according to the trade journal Amusement Business.

Much of the focus stems from the recent corporate shakeup that ended with the decision by Michael D. Eisner, the longtime chief executive, to resign effective this September. (He is being replaced by Disney's president, Robert A. Iger.) It's a tale of boardroom intrigue that inspired James B. Stewart's "Disney War," published this year. At the heart of the drama is the question of whether Disney has put profits ahead of the need to deliver that "magic," especially at the parks and resorts.

The issue has been raised repeatedly by Roy E. Disney (Walt's nephew), former Disney board member and executive. In "Disney War," he is quoted telling a group of investors, "If you've been [to the parks] in recent years, you will have noticed the lack of maintenance, the fewer number of characters on the streets. The cast members ... have been pared back unmercifully. Their hours have been cut, benefits taken away. That gets reflected in their attitude toward the guests." (Mr. Disney declined comment for this article, although he recently came to an agreement with Disney's board and management to withdraw a lawsuit challenging the selection process behind Mr. Iger's appointment.)

It is also an issue that arose in an article in The Orlando Sentinel, published in March 2004, about its investigation of maintenance at Disney World's Magic Kingdom. The paper reported that "flaws included worn walkways and steps, rotting wood, scratched and chipped stucco, peeling paint, rusted railings, faded awnings and yellowing plants."

The issue seems to resonate with Disney guests. On such Web sites as WDWInfo.com and MiceAge.com, they debate matters ranging from the company's attention to ride safety (in the wake of recent scares connected to such attractions as Mission: Space at the Epcot park and the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror at Disney-MGM Studios, including the death of a 4-year-old boy after riding Mission: Space) to the wait times for Disney buses. There appears to be a growing view that the Mouse no longer delivers at the same magical level.

While not denying that problems occur, Disney officials say their commitment to customer service remains strong, as evidenced by the fact that 75 percent of Disney World visitors are repeat guests. "Our goal in life is to get excellent ratings," said Lee Cockerell, executive vice president for operations at Disney World. "We try to move the 'goods' up to 'very goods' and the 'very goods' up to 'excellents.' "

But in Beth Motta's case, she'd be hard pressed to give Disney a "fair." Ms. Motta, a Cleveland-area nursing student, traveled with her husband and four children for a six-day stay at Disney World's All-Star Music Resort this spring. Despite assurances from Disney staff members that she could have connecting rooms - a must since one of her children is disabled - Ms. Motta says she was told otherwise when she arrived. "I sat in the lobby and cried," she recalled.

Even more disconcerting are reports that Disney is slow or unwilling to respond to complaints. In Ms. Motta's case, she says she had the problem corrected after much haggling, but the "solution" meant staying in a more remote location at the resort and sharing a building with a group of noisy teenagers. She did receive a credit of $120 - on a $1,300 bill - but it wasn't offered until she contacted the guest communications department upon her return home.

I hit a similar wall of unresponsiveness with managers at the Saratoga Springs resort: I had to argue my way into an upgrade that provided the very sleeping arrangements I was guaranteed. After more problems ensued, I received $100 in credit - far less than the refund for a full-night's stay that hospitality-industry experts I interviewed say was merited. And there barely seemed to be acknowledgment that the resort was still under construction. (When I returned home, I called a higher-level manager - without revealing that I was a journalist - and she agreed to refund my entire stay.)

Such stories prompt some observers of Disney operations to say the situation reflects a demoralized, improperly trained staff. "There's a palpable difference in the attitudes of cast members versus five years ago. There are fewer smiles there," said Pete Werner, the founder and Webmaster of WDWInfo.com.

Disney executives vehemently deny such charges. In an opinion column responding to the article in The Orlando Sentinel, Disney World's president, Al Weiss, noted a 90 percent approval rating from guests when it comes to upkeep and cleanliness at the Magic Kingdom.

And in a recent interview, Mr. Cockerell said that Disney World's staff was at an all-time high of 57,000, though the number can fluctuate depending on the season. And while he conceded that Disney's "traditions" employee-orientation program has been pared back to one day from two days, he argued that it was because Disney had focused on other training methods. As for resolving guests' complaints, Mr. Cockerell insists that managers are empowered to offer whatever is appropriate to rectify the situation.

And what about my problem-riddled visit? "Your stay was not typical," Mr. Cockerell said.

Still, Mr. Cockerell allows that mistakes do happen, given the sheer size of Disney World's operations. But the real reason some guests walk away disappointed, Mr. Cockerell suspects, is that they arrive with such high expectations. "Walt Disney World is like a national park," he said. "If something doesn't go right, I get a seven-page letter."

IN a sense, that may be Disney's own doing. Since the company's first venture into the theme-park business a half-century ago, it has maintained that it wants to create an immaculate escape-from-the-real-world environment. Disneyland grew out of Walt Disney's disappointing experiences with his own children at amusement parks. "You could have fantastic rides, but if the place was sloppy or you had to wait for toilets [it wouldn't work]. For him, it had to be beautiful," said Diane Disney Miller, Walt's daughter, in the Summer 2005 issue of Disney Magazine. (That issue of the decades-old magazine was the last to hit the stands. It ceased publication because of the company's bottom-line concerns.)

But another part of the equation, say observers like Deb Wills, founder of AllEarsNet.com, another unofficial Disney site, is that Disney guests have come to anticipate "magic moments" at, well, every moment. "People hear so many wonderful things they think it's going to be picture perfect," she said. Take the famed "towel animals" - towels that have been shaped to resemble wildlife - that Disney maids have been known to leave in a guest's room. What started as a surprise offering has now become a de rigueur part of the Disney experience.

But for most guests, the experience comes close to the quintessential family vacation. Take Vicki Moreno, a San Antonio homemaker who has been a Disney World regular since 1991. Her ultimate "magic moment" came a few weeks ago at a character autograph-signing opportunity at Epcot. When one of her daughters realized she had lost her autograph book, a Disney staff member arranged a free replacement and a private character meet-and-greet. Ms. Moreno's reaction? "I thought, 'Wow!' " she said.

And that's the funny thing: Despite all the problems with my stay, there were plenty of "wows," too. Like the time the chef at the Polynesian Resort prepared a special fruit platter for my food-allergic 13-year-old son. Or the time a security guard at Epcot, sensing my 6-year-old daughter's impatience as we waited in the bag-search line, took off his cap and placed it affectionately on her head.

Then, there's the "wow" I experience every time I enter the Magic Kingdom. Seeing the cobblestone streets and the rows of old-timey shops, I can't help but buy into the fantasy that is Walt Disney's Main Street, designed after the one in his boyhood home of Marceline, Mo. Some might call it synthetic, but that's missing the point: It never pretends to be real.

And that's perhaps why when Disney stumbles, we respond so vociferously. If we wanted the headaches and hassles, we'd stay at the budget motel off the Interstate. Instead, we want the magic. And we'll keep going to Disney World in search of it - for the time being.

[cruise-o-matic]

Thanks llovell.

Article definitely has a negative slant. Like he kept a seperate journal of negative or semi-negative comments and pulled only examples from that for all but the last few paragraphs....but by then, the tone had been set and the sensationalism makes it seem fishy. I wish Webmaster Pete would publish his entire comments to Mr. Passy so we can read it in context.

If Mr. Passy has been a visitor to these boards for the past several years, surely he should have been enlightened about SSR. The fact that it is a DVC property (I hate to call it a timeshare....). The fact that is is still under construction. He can look at room layouts, occupancy threads, etc...a whole plethera of info....Maybe CRO did promise a roll away. Who knows? (Do they offer r/a's at other Disney resorts?) In fact, if he was a frequent visitor to the Dis, he would have known that by renting points instead of going through CRO, he could have saved a ton of $ (I would hate to have been the one who rented to him). But at least the DVC owner in that case, would have nipped the roll away bed request in the bud.

I still have a problem with the fact that he got a full refund for lack of a roll away?? It almost sounds like he was refunded (if in fact that he was really given a full refund...) to keep from publishing a negative review in the Times. Now, those with a less than 100% magical stay will feel that they are entitled to some major compensation. Now, I read Ms. Motta's OP, and that was a real cluster foxtrot. She went through all the right channels, Special Needs, etc and Disney majorly dropped the ball for her.

Overall, if service goes up a notch, great....but I'm not sure if the end justify the means (one sided, highly slanted story).

[canda]

Can I get a full refund for my subscription to the Times, because they lied to me about a number of stories and issues. Also my dinner was disturbed when a telephone called and ask if I would re-subscribe.

[kathleena]

My opinion is that the writer was out to write a negative article and he achieved that. He was out to write about how the "growing views" are that Disney magic is dropping. Of course it is - if you seek out that opinion.

The fact that he had his own experience "shattered" by the communications gap that exists between CRO and DVC (something that we all know is there!) just added fodder to the fire.

There are bigger and more important things in life than two kids having to share a sofa and CRO making a mistake about roll-aways.

While experiencing the failure and takeover by the FDIC of my former bank employer and being accosted with daily printed and spoken news - fact, fiction and speculation - I learned a lot about reading news articles and how much they are just one person's opinion. I came to think of them as just column space. Filler. Something to waste your time on when you have nothing of value to read. This is one of those. A waste of column space. And the exact reason why I don't read newspapers or magazines.

Disney Magic does not mean Disney has to be perfect in my eyes.

[rinkwide]

...the communications gap that exists between CRO and DVC (something that we all know is there!)...Does the fact that <i><b>we</i></b> all know it exists mean that it's acceptible?

Disney Magic does not mean Disney has to be perfect...Is there anyone here who thinks Disney's standard of service and maintenance has improved in the last 10 years?

[tjkraz]

For whatever it's worth, here's my take on the article:

Rollaway bed issue - As described, it's inexcusable. Charles should not have been told 3 times (including by resort staff at check-in) that he would get a bed if that was not the case. Falling back on "DVC does not allow rollaways" isn't good enough, IMO. Disney advertises these "Home Away From Home" resorts (or whatever they are called now) just as they do the other classes. They either need to do a better job of differentiating the services offered at each to those making reservations, or offer the same services.

Construction - I'm on the fence on this one. Would we expect disclaimers at the time of booking that "It's A Small World will be closed during your stay" or "'Fantasmic' may not run for 3 days due to scheduled maintenance?" No. At the same time, if (and I don't know that this was actually addressed) the trip was booked through CRO, it seems reasonable for them to have pre-printed notations of these types of issues that could be read to the guest at the time of the reservation.

Billing error - It happens...it was fixed...get over it.

Quoting Orlando Sentinel article and Disney War - Poor decision. Don't tell me what the O.S. and Roy Disney (who clearly had his own agenda) had to say about maintenance and staffing well over a year ago...tell me how the parks look TODAY!

I do find it interesting to read Charles' comments here that his original intent was to write a piece focusing on Saratoga Springs. All of the first-hand experiences related involved poor experiences AT SSR. Wouldn't focusing on that experience have made for a better article?

To me, the negative slant is apparent, even in light of the (brief) mention of the "wows". IMO, Charles set the tone with these comments:

"And apparently, we weren't the only ones on this ride. To hear some other guests tell similar stories of inept service at Disney World theme parks and resorts is to realize the Mouse may no longer be as mighty."

Reading those words within the first 15% of the article it became apparent that he intended to take on WDW as a whole, not just SSR. If one were truly acknowledging the 75% return rate and 90% guest satisfacation rate, that line may have instead have read something like:

"Fortunately our stay does not appear to reflect the typical Walt Disney World guest experience..."

But the approach used is more sensationalistic, and I'm sure that played no small part in the construction of the article.

[Chuck S]

Does the fact that we all know it exists mean that it's acceptible?

Acceptable from what point? If CRO tells someone that rollaways are avaiable at DVC resorts and they are not...it does not have any affect on us as DVCers, does it? They've never been available, and I don't see that changing.

Is there anyone here who thinks Disney's standard of service and maintenance has improved in the last 10 years?

I have seen changes in the last 10 years at Disney, some good some bad...just like the banking industry has changed in the last 10 years. Improved? On some issues. Remained the same on most issues, and declined on some issues. Overall, I think there has been little "net" change to our overall Disney experience. And just how many of the perceived "negative" changes are we, the consumer, responsible for? The towels animals are just the tip of the iceberg regarding guests higher demands and expectations that are truly unreasonable. Because of the "drama" involved when some doesn't get what used to be random "magic" is it unreasonable that Disney or any other company, would discontinue some things? After all, when "magic" becomes "mandatory" it is no longer "magic"

[mamatojon]

I have seen changes in the last 10 years at Disney, some good some bad...just like the banking industry has changed in the last 10 years. Improved? On some issues. Remained the same on most issues, and declined on some issues. Overall, I think there has been little "net" change to our overall Disney experience. And just how many of the perceived "negative" changes are we, the consumer, responsible for? The towels animals are just the tip of the iceberg regarding guests higher demands and expectations that are truly unreasonable. Because of the "drama" involved when some doesn't get what used to be random "magic" is it unreasonable that Disney or any other company, would discontinue some things? After all, when "magic" becomes "mandatory" it is no longer "magic"

I was thinking the same thing. Granted I was going to DL 10 years ago and just started my trips to WDW in 2003, but honestly I can't see how my trips *overall* are any less magical now than they were then. I wish we had the internet in the form it is today 10-20 years ago, I'm sure we would have had just as many complaints and critics posting then too.

I was talking to my MIL about this yesterday and she said the fact that they refunded his entire stay would be extremely magical for her. "Like Christmas in July" she said. ;)

[TheBeast]

Wow, there are some real cynics out there! Maybe I'm naive, but I tend to believe what he said happened really happened. And I think he really believes it was the worst stay of his life.

But I see nothing that warrants the worst hotel stay of someone's life, unless that person has always stayed at finer hotels and also been quite lucky. I haven't travelled that extensively and have had plenty of worse stays than what was described.

It's also funny to note how offended people got with his criticism of Disney, but then went on to say "but let me tell you about the issues I've had". People on these boards certainly have a lot of pride in Disney, and I read it like a criticism of a family member. It's ok if you do it, but if someone else tries, you'll rip their head off!

[lllovell]

I am sure Crisi's points about booking through CRO are probably on track.

Beast - I feel like most of us HAVE acknowledged that some of Mr. Passy's issues are completely unacceptable. However, one thing that I still find very interesting is that he (a writer) was doing an article on SSR (per him - his original intent) and it appears that he did NO advance research. If he had, he would know it was still under construction. If he had, he would have known it was 100% a DVC property that has a few cash rooms available (and the differences that might cause for his stay from a typical hotel room on property). He also came onto this site, with Pete's permission, asking people about their experiences, to which he got mostly very positive reviews and he choose to expand greatly on the much smaller percent of negative reviews. As tjkraz pointed out, once he discovered such high percentage of repeat customers (75%) and a 90% satisfaction with the customer service at Disney, maybe it should have dawned on him that some things in his original thinking were not balance. He choose a slant.

Rinkwide - if it makes Disney stand up and pay better attention - fantastic. However, I suspect they will read it much like many of us have and wonder about this gentlemen's intent and comments. (also, this trip to SSR was some time ago and I think that most people that have been to SSR in the last few months have reports that things are running much more smoothly - which indicates to me that Disney figured out there was a problem and have been working to improve on things).

Its been interesting to me, reading the DVC perspective and then going to other parts of this board and reading what people are thinking. I know that we are WAY more informed than the general public and of course the DVC section is way more informed about DVC than a non-DVC DISer. I do love Disney and maybe its because I have only been a regular guest for the last couple of years that I have not seen the deplorable conditions people speak of. I was glad when the 50th celebration took off finally, because I feel like a LOT of activity was geared towards it (more rides down for maintenance and refurbing, etc) and now its back to business as usual. Either I am blind or other people walk around the parks searching out negatives. I don't see all this low maintenance. I don't run into grumpy CMs (so far I have had more WOW CMs than even luke warm). Maybe its all about our own outlook - not really sure. All I know is that what I see, I like. If they can improve, then please do :) if not, I am pretty darn pleased to spend vacations there for a long time to come.

Laura

[gopherit]

As I always tell my co-workers and kids -- Hey, Reality and Eutopia just don't always co-exist... Disney was designed to give folks the perception that those two entities COULD combine, but increasingly, let's face it, everything is under society's TOME philosophy (They Owe Me). These days, when life hands people lemons... they wanna throw them at someone. If you are at the receiving end of those "lemons" (and if you also are facing the constraints of pay freeze, lost benefits, etc -- your own personal lemon tree!), well, even the sweetest person with the world's greatest work ethic could sour over time. Personal service is bound to suffer.

Does any of this make it "right"? Does knowing this make us feel any better?

Nah. Even if we "know" that say, a newbie CM made an honest mistake, or the computer has a nasty billing glitch, or our housekeeper just wasn't into the latest towel origami.... we will keep a score card over the course of our trip of these events and feel that twinge -- no matter how big or how tiny -- of disappointment that something has "marred" what was going to be "perfect". And people will feel inclined to tell others, to share the kinks in the grand plan. Look how many trip reports obsess over the bad points -- look how trips reports with wild tales of woe are widely read! (I'm guilty of readin' em... even have been known to write my own pitiparty lines now and then...) And people will strangely tune into this sad prose far more closely than our praise. Face it, "Done Wrong" sells.

And just as what goes up must come down -- people will invariably, whether conscious of it or not -- look for something to bring their "downs" back "up".... usually in the form of some sort of compensation. Frankly, I think the fact that SSR found an air mattress was especially creative of them, (I too share the image of the short-straw CM or summer kid being dispatched to the nearest Wal-Mart, LOL!) Giving the person a larger room was more than generous. But refunding their money? Seems a bit over the top. Especially given that the refunding obviously happened well past the actual stay (after all, why didn't they just refund during the whole $750 billing event...) As for what should be the "norm" -- where is that written? Who are these "hospitatily experts" and what in fact IS the established "norm" for vacation compensation? Disney always seemed to me to be among the most generous of businesses in that regard -- my DH swears their policy is "Just make the problem goooo awayyyyyyyy..." So does this "Hoteliers Code of Compensation" vary with hotel grade, too? (Wine at the Waldorf, applejuice at the All Stars?)

And here's a question -- should any person in a WDW resort, if a similar chain of events occurs to them, receive the exact same treatment? Society as it is, don't think for a second someone won't try it. "Hey, HE got an air mattress AND a bigger room AND his moolah back -- why not ME?" I can only imagine the # of calls WDW will get for a rollaway in the weeks to come.

I think the author decided at some point to change his topic and do a piece on Disney's declining customer service, and catered to that type audience. I have no issue with that change of mind or topic -- it's a free country, he's entitled to write it -- it doesn't mean I have to read it or agree. Some of the data was misleading -- but find me an article in today's news that isn't. I think quality and service have declined at WDW over the past 10 yrs -- but again, find me a place that hasn't. Business focus so heavily placed on the almighty profit margin and bottom line, and Disney as a business can be a tough concept for some to swallow when you connect it so tightly to vacation memories and personal feelings. I doubt anything in that article was news to Disney -- heck, they probably said, "THAT'S all that happened? Whew!"

I will confess, though, that I'm bothered about the whole reimbursement thing for the author. I just don't see where that was in any way justified. And because DIsney IS a business, and because I own a piece (although microscopic!) of that business, I resent it when I see "my company" being forced to compensate due to a customer's sheer devil-doggin'. If you are after resolution of the problem (i.e. sleeping accommodations) then the air mattress should fit as neatly into that plan as a rollaway (frankly, the rollaways can be quite uncomfy!) Certainly a larger room is a true improvement (after all, a real bed is a TRUE upgrade from the rollaway you originally agreed upon.) And a billing error -- fixing that is good payback. A call at 1 am? A lapse in timing judgement on an otherwise ok idea. Construction occurring? Yes, it's happening -- but to me that issue falls under guest negligence. If you are writing about SSR you would do your homework and know it's still under construction, and even if WDW said, "not a problem" you would still surely surmise that the effort would be VISIBLE while on the grounds. Not sure how WDW is at fault for that in a cash-liable way. As for CM attitude in dealing with the minor issues (cash register / computer glitches, food service, etc) well again, maybe not a pleasant experience. I always try to be as positive as possible in those situations -- and it usually is reflected back to me, often gratefully in fact. After all, that CM doesn't want to be stuck with a jammed computer (and potentially nasty patrons, in some cases) any more than you want to stand there idly holding your ham sandwich for the next 20 minutes. Frustrating, yes -- a cause for cash reimbursement, no. As for the thread link posted (woman at AllStars promised connnected rooms), well, I think she was dealt a nasty blow that possibly -- possibly -- could have been reconciled with better negotiations at the time. I would have pressed WDW to find something else -- if not that night, the next day. I think finding ANY room at a hotel -- especially All Stars -- that is "quiet" is like asking for an honest politician, though. The CMs have no way of knowing who will be noisy. And that can be very tough to enforce -- they would have to literally sit on those teens' mouths. CMs or even police can come say something, but as soon as they leave, chaos ensues...kids are like that (especially the unruly, poorly supervised ones). Her DH is probably onto something by suggesting they hold out for a deluxe -- I'd say a moderate might work too though. I also think she's under incredible pressures with a special needs child and perhaps WDW's lack of streamlined communications is making things worse... I'd say she's owed a phone card and someone willing to get her plans for this trip RIGHT without all the worries, if nothing else! THe fact that WDW promised her a connecting room and didn't provide is an issue that might just merit compensation -- but to me, that's something best done right there, on the spot, making it a win-win there, not after the trip is already over. They were probably just too darn tired / frustrated to optimally negotiate that. Maybe the writer of the news article can give them HIS payout -- it's more warranted for them than him.

[Shawn]

After going to Disneyland a lot during the mid to late 80's - early 90's, we took a break for 10 years or so. (Not by choice, but rather due to a move, house buying expenses, etc).

However, we are gearing up for yearly trips once more, and took our first last December.

I was *not* looking for differences, but I did notice a few that differences at Disnelyand during the past decade or more.

The arrival of Pin Trading is a *wonderful* new bit of magic. I had no clue about it the first day, since I don't collect pins. But we figured it out by the 2nd day, bought a lanyard and two pins for each of my daughters. They then spent the remaining 4 or 5 days trading with cast members. They each started with two pins and ended with two pins, and traded I don't know how many times in between. This opportunity for interaction with *all* the CM's (including CM's just manning doors or in other jobs that my children would perhaps not normally notice) was wonderful for them, and I believe they enjoyed meeting the CM's as much as any ride they went on (well, almost .. Pirates and Soaring were pretty big hits).

On the down side, I have to say that I did notice more trash in the park. In particular, trash in the water around the castle, trash in the line areas, etc. Much less than you would see at your typical amusement park, but it was definitely noticeable, wheras in the '80s, it wasn't.

Other things that folks have mentioned, such as fading paint, construction work, mismatched pavement colors, I didn't notice, nor was I looking for them.

It's still my favorite and happiest place to be. But if I could have Disney spend money on only one thing, it would definitely be a return to the days when the sight of trash in the water or in a corner of a line was a rare, rather than an acceptable event.

-Shawn

[OneMoreTry]

The opening day of Disneyland was probably the low point of Disney parks. But look what Walt did to make it better.

As WDW changes and grows and adapts to our shifting world, spit will happen. How they deal with it is what will make the difference -- or not. I'm not selling my DIS stock or DVC.

I've never had a big problem with DVC or WDW. Really not even a minor one comes to mind. So it's hard to imagine. Although with hundreds of thousands of people passing through there every day I'm sure things go wrong so I don't have any problem believing a story like this one.

[CHOPR]

Can I get a full refund for my subscription to the Times, because they lied to me about a number of stories and issues. Also my dinner was disturbed when a telephone called and ask if I would re-subscribe

:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

Does the N.Y. Times have any credibility left? :confused3 :confused3 :)

[tigger002]

Keeping in mind this room was over $300 a night I do believe the service was not up par for a room of costing over $300 a night charge. When a person pays this kind of money they really do expect much better than average service. Not every stay is going to be perfect and obviously there were going to be some problems. I have to say I have been to Disney over 20 times and do feel there have been some cost cutting that has effected the service and room quality. My last stay of February was not perfect and my biggest problem was for a room costing over $300 service/room just was not up to par with other hotels charging the same.

I stilll love Disney though.

[idratherbeinwdw]

Keeping in mind this room was over $300 a night I do believe the service was not up par for a room of costing over $300 a night charge. When a person pays this kind of money they really do expect much better than average service. Not every stay is going to be perfect and obviously there were going to be some problems. I have to say I have been to Disney over 20 times and do feel there have been some cost cutting that has effected the service and room quality. My last stay of February was not perfect and my biggest problem was for a room costing over $300 service/room just was not up to par with other hotels charging the same.

I stilll love Disney though.

And did you get your entire trip refunded? And did they offer you a free vacation to make up for it? According to the Mr. Passy and his vague "hospitality sources", that's the least they should have done. Or were you treated like 99% of the other cases I read about with issues--The cms at WDW tried to resolve what was unsatisfactory, you received an apology, and little, if any, compensation, financial or otherwise?

I don't doubt Disney messes up, it would be impossible for any business that has as many guests as WDW not to have some problems. It's Mr. Passy's slanted viewpoint of accentuating the negative, and his getting a full refund for problems that were either relatively minor or dealt with while he was there that I take umbrage at.

[mstec]

I don't mean to pile on here, but I would like to get this straight in my own mind...the items above were the BIG things???

The reason I ask is a very wise mentor of mine once told me, "You can tell the size of a man by the size of the things that make him mad."


LOVE IT!! :rotfl2:

I'm still trying to figure out why he needed the rollaway bed, unless it was a test in the first place. I question whether it wasn't already known that they are not allowed/provided. Also, about the construction noise - perhaps he shouldn't have stayed in a resort that is still "under construction"...:rolleyes1 Sometimes people see what they want to see...

[Deb & Bill]

...Is there anyone here who thinks Disney's standard of service and maintenance has improved in the last 10 years?

After spending $2.45/gallon for gas this evening, is there anyone here who thinks the oil companies standard of service and maintenance has improved in the last 10 years?

It's why we call them the good old days. ;)