Reflections on the 100 Year Celebrations

[Sarangel]

Couldn't help myself... It's a Jim Hill Article (http://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/eyedrive/) about the varying Celebrations surrounding Walt Disney's 100th Year.

Sarangel

[Bob O]

Excellant article!!! Show how disney isnt trying to honor him but use him as part of a pr campaign to drum up sales. They wont do what is right and honor him because its the right thing to do, instead they use him to try to sell snowglobes and pins. Sad that is has come to this.

[goofypat42]

This was interesting. I am reading the Walt Disney Hollywood's dark
prince. I find this book very interesting. The author saids Disney has
their story and thats it. What this books saids he overworked his employees
low pay and didn't give them credit for any of their creations. I plan on
reading the Disney version book after I finish this book. Just to compare
the differences in stories. I know one thing, Disney made a lot of
money selling Mickey's stuff. It seems the money made was put back into
making the movies.

[wdwguide]

I am surprised that someone like Jim Hill is not aware that the fact that Walt Disney didn't create Mickey Mouse has been common knowledge for as long as I can remember, and it is certainly not a recent discovery.

[Another Voice]

Mr. Scoop – you’re actually pretty close to the truth.

By all accounts, Walt Disney did not want to be celebrated. There were strict instructions not to build a statue of him (instructions which were ignored), name a building after him (also ignored) or otherwise give him the usual trappings of a “great man”. What he wanted was for his creations live on, to be expanded and to continue. That was to be his legacy – his work was to continue.

What strikes many of us as the problem with the planned celebration is that there is no sense of that continuing effort. The four parades are simply four characters parades that the parks have been doing for nearly half a century. The floats may look different, but the concept remains the same. And there’s a rather crass overlay on the situation as well – if you have any doubt about the real purpose of the celebration, check out the new Hallmark commercial. The one with the parade float morphs into a waterglobe, yours for only $14.99 with the purchase of any three Hallmark cards. Hurry, this is a limited time offer and supplies are limited so rush out to WalMart today.

WDW’s celebration is in the past tense – it’s all about what has already happened. Walt, by all evidence, always lived for the future, always wanted to do something new and different. The parks should be a place where Walt’s creations are celebrated everyday, just as he intended. But creating something genuinely new, genuinely different would have been the best way to celebrate his birthday.

[DVC-Landbaron]

Once again AV says it all. The reason I have refrained from commenting on this subject is the very reason you state, Scoop. I haven't seen it yet. But I have seen the commercial that AV referenced. - - - - AHHHHHHHH!!!!!! - - - - Doesn't this at least raise a huge red flag to you???

The only thing I'd like to add is that I'm holding out hope (although not much) that the display area will be tastefully done, full of respect and devoid of anything costing anything!! Heck, I'd be absolutely thrilled if they just brought back the Walt Disney Story as it was. In fact, If I were top mouse, that's about all I'd do.

And as far as the parades… Well, they don't thrill me at all. If it weren't this reason they'd find another. The point is the parades need to be freshened up every so often anyway. This is just hanging a 'celebration' around something that would be done anyway!! Give us a small and tastefully done tribute to the man and more importantly, his concepts, and you've got me hooked!!

Something tells me, by early indications (i.e. Hallmark ad) that they are more concerned about pushing pins, packing people in and selling snowglobes, than they are about the man and his ideas! But I could be wrong. At the next Rumors Meet in July we will dissect it. And I'm always willing to place a small wager to make it interesting. Any takers (Scoop)?

[YoHo]

Just to agree with Landbaron and AV, I too have a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach about this celebration. And don't doubt for a minute that I'm not glad to get new parades. I file them under Landbaron's Spinner file. Thanks for the Icing, where's the cake?

They do parades all the time. You get the sense that Walt's hundredth is no more important then WDW's 25th. Less important really since the BAH seems to have been placed there for alterior motives and for the 25th they redid the whole castle (ugly? Yes, but certainly more then they'redoing for Walt.) Of course given some of the people on this board who have commented since Walt's hundreth first came up that Celebrating Walt is dumb and we should celebarte WDW's 30th. Maybe a parade and some Kiosks is all we need.


Personally, I would just as soon they did absolutly nothing at the parks besides operate and grow them the way Walt would have. I mean, come on, Is DCA really a good Birthday present?

The movie being produced for ABC is a good Idea. Bring back the Walt Disney Story is also a good Idea. Why not do something Wacky like open the Apartment in the Castle and put in a new club 33 or anything more stately then a same old same old parade.




Of course, you know, the Japanese are famous for their expensive high quality presents. :)

[gary]

they redid the whole castle (ugly? Yes, but certainly more then they'redoing for Walt.)

The sorcerer's hat may not be everyone's favorite (heck, it's not mine), but building the hat certainly compares to decorating the castle like a giant pink cake. And I think Fantasia reflects Walt more than Cinderella does.

IMHO, the best way for an individual to pay tribute to Walt, regardless of what the company plans, is to visit the Walt Disney Story (does it exist at MK, or just DL?). Read a book. Take a quiet moment or two at "Partners" (the statue he didn't want, but I'm glad they built) and think about the man and what his works mean to you. If character parades and snowglobes help, then fine. But if they don't, then just remember him the same way you'd remember anyone who had a positive impact on your life.

Building a MK Club 33 wouldn't work. Club 33 is important because it's Club 33 - its a little piece of history. Anything else would just be a copy, another exclusive gathering place. (Although I'd get myself on the waiting list if I could afford it ;) ).

[YoHo]

I realize building another club 33 might not work, I was just tossing suggestions off the top of my head. The reason I don't think the BAH is the same as the castle, is because the BAH from all indications is intended to stay as the focus of the park. Remember how not all that may people complained about the big 2000 over spaceship Earth until it became permanent?

They aren't building the BAH to celebrate Walt they are building it to HIDE the Mann's Chinese theater. They changed the castle back when the celebration was over. That made it special. the BAH will be with us for a long time.

[Bob O]

From what ive heard and read about the so-called celebration of Walt Disney they are going to have new parades(to sell snow globes/pins) and they built a hat which is used primarily to sell merchandise with some items from his life thrown it, all being sponsored by HALLMARK. Why couldnt have Disney celebrated their founders birth without a sponsor and the main purpose being to sell more merchandise. Why not something as simple as a film to celebrate his life without sponsors and everything a tie in to sell something???? And what has disney done lately to deserve a benefit of the doubt over anything. Some people are upset the celebration is being flamed before hand but what has disney done lately to inspire confidence that this isnt just a way to make people part with their money instead of a proper honoring of their founder??? Where are the examples from the past couple of years to give us a positive view rather than a cynical view?? A couple of years ago i may have agreed with scoop but ive seen nothing the lately to be positive about. An d this isnt aimed at the cast members but the higher ups who control the purse strings. Does this sound like a celebration that was put together in a short period of time or something that they spent a long time on, how they should honor the founder of the company without being tacky?? I hope im wrong on being cynical but ive senn little lately to change my mind.

[Peter Pirate]

Where are the examples from the past couple of years to give us a positive view rather than a cynical view.

Well...The Millennium Celebration featuring Tapestry of Nations floated my boat...
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[DisneyFanGuy]

I, also, thought the combination of Tapestry of Nations and Illuminations was among the best things that Disney has ever done. You left Epcot feeling a tremendous "high". Fantasmic is great too, however, it's a copy of a 10 year old entertainment from DL. TON and Illum. were first class, mind blowing, NEW Attractions/Entertainment. They alone were enough for me to feel like Disney had done something really special.

[YoHo]

And of course, much Like the BAH, ToN and Illuminations are staying in slightly modified Form. Which to me reduces their uniqueness.

[gary]

But if everyone likes them, why dump them just for "uniqueness"? Can't we begin "new traditions", the way Fantasmic has become a fixture?

[YoHo]

Sure we can, But If its just a pale comparison to the original? AND, they're recycling it, changing some costumes and calling it a new parade to Honor Walt to boot? Its offensive. Again, I'd rather they did nothing.

If all the Walt Trivia Stays with the BAH for the rest of time, then I would be happy, but if the BAH stays and all that goes, merely to block the view of a Hollywood fixture that Disney Doesn't own. Then how is that fitting?

[DVC-Landbaron]

But if everyone likes them, why dump them just for "uniqueness"? Can't we begin "new traditions", the way Fantasmic has become a fixture?Of course we can. I strongly encourage this type of change! I welcome it with open arms. And sometimes they'll hit and sometimes they'll miss. But the most important thing is that they are trying to do something new, fresh and exciting.

Just don't muddy the waters calling it a "special" celebration (lately a yearly event) with things they should be doing anyway! Especially tarnishing it with Walt's name. It just makes it seem cheap. I'd prefer they do nothing, rather than a cheap Hallmark ad to sell snowglobes! Just improve things for the sake of improving them. Don't cheapen it with a crummy ad campaign and the selling of cheap trinkets. That's what Walt referred to as "Sharp practices used to bilk the customer's pocketbook"!

And I happen to agree. But maybe that's just me (and Walt) ;).

[DVC-Landbaron]

but I think the "prudent" (Dana Carvey/Church lady allusion) would be to visit DinoRama, ride Mission:Space, and witness the new parades and shows before grand pronouncements of "nothing but carnys", "Space is just a spinner" (boy, whoever's preaching that sermon really needs to relax and not prejudge something they have never seen), and "these are just from the recycle bin"WOW!!!! Is that a summation or your opening statement? It certainly isn't anything you could use during a trail. Other than a passing reference to parades nothing in that paragraph has been introduced in evidence within this thread!!! ;)

Now since you chose to quote me, I'll respond as if in a one on one conversation. On page one of this thread I said:
Once again AV says it all. The reason I have refrained from commenting on this subject is the very reason you state, Scoop. I haven't seen it yet. But I have seen the commercial that AV referenced. - - - - AHHHHHHHH!!!!!! - - - - Doesn't this at least raise a huge red flag to you???All I've been talking about since then is that 'red flag' and what it means to me at this particular time. I may have to eat my words and pay off a bet with you, Scoop (the details yet to be worked out), but I never mentioned all those other things you mentioned. And I'm really just complaining (and I hope loud enough) about the blatant, cheap, degrading, shabby and very disheartening (almost humiliating) commercialism that has already invaded the sanctity of Walt's birthday!

:(

[gary]

I guess the thing I agree with most is the fact that they shouldn't put so much marketing spin on it. And the only reason I feel that way is they (appear to) siphon off park profits to support other parts of the company. If they were marketing the parks to make more money to put back into the parks to make them better, I probably wouldn't find things as objectionable. Nor would I write so many run-on sentences.

A lot of our pleasure/disappointment has to do with our expectations, I think. If a "celebration" results in a lavish parade, it's great. If a less-lavish version of that parade sticks around, I still think it's good. Basically, I appreciate 4th of July fireworks on the 4th, but don't expect every fireworks show to match it. I'm happy to see the fireworks on the other days, no matter how lavish. Same with the parades.

"In Walt's Name" is another story entirely. I have a general objection to using the "endorsement" of dead people (for example, Coors' John Wayne ads). To celebrate him is another thing entirely, and the company has the right to do it as they see fit, and we can embrace it, or walk away from it, or enjoy our freedom of speech and complain about it. I'll stick to my original thesis and say that, if I don't like the way they're celebrating Walt, I'll do it my own way. They won't make as much money off of me, but if their "special 100th anniversary parades" please the masses, so be it. Let's have a party at The Walt Disney Story. Better yet, is there a way to get Club 33 to host a special event? What could be more fitting than a toast to Walt in the middle of the magic? Now there's a little bit of marketing and hype I could deal with.

Gary

P.S. I have a thought on the pins, too. Last time I was at WDW, I saw a few kids at pin trading stations looking at each other's collection and negotiating trades. I'm not convinced that this would've bothered Walt - trading pins of Disney characters and attractions like baseball cards. The sales may approach "sharp practices" (I'm not so sure), but the end effect is a group of kids happily trading Disney pins.

P.P.S. I'm more upset with the way they've been marketing the heck out of every little bit of Disney that they can come up with. The die-cast metal replicas of things like the Haunted Mansion Hearse put me off quite a bit. But again, nobody says I need to buy it, and for some kid it may be a special momento from his favorite ride from his favorite vacation ever. Should they deprive that kid just because I think they're over-marketing?

[YoHo]

Gary and Landbaron I agree with you, scoop, Would you mind coming in out of left field?

I don't have a single problem with new parades. I welcome them. As I said on the first page, they go right in the Landbaron thanks for the asbestos suit, now put out the major fire. (I'm going to come up with a new metaphor every time.) BUT, To then turn around a run up the marketing blitz from day one. And YES, of course they are going to have trinkets and dodads for sale. That's hardly a sharp practice. BUT, the comercials should be celebrating WALT, not selling Halmark products.

I'm sure the parades are great. I remember a lot of negatie comments on the AK parade early on, but from the concept sketches. It looks good. Disney knows how to do parades. That doesn't change the fact that the stank of bad intentions is all over the whole thing.

[Peter Pirate]

...the commercials should be celebrating Walt, not selling Hallmark products.
Walt didn't want to be celebrated, but I'm sure if it were in the name of bringing guests to the Park he'd be all for it. As for Hallmark, hey good for them! Perhaps more will come from this relationship that'll be good for Park goers...Besides whoring is pretty much what Companies do, isn't it? Or would it sound better if I called it creative sales techniques?
And I'm really just complaining about the blatent, cheap, degrading shabby and very disheartening (almost humiliating) commercialism that has already invaded the sanctity of Walt's birthday.
The sanctity of Walts birthday??? Landbaron...If I sent you a hundred bucks would you promise to go out to dinner or something? (As in, "you need to get out more").
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[YoHo]

When I got done laughing at the Pirate's little joke, I came up and realized that In some sense I agree with Landbaron. You're right that Walt didn't want to be celebrated or glorified, so then, is the answer to get in bed with the sales staff? He didn't want us to celebrate him, so instead of something tasteful, lets be sleazy? This should be the biggest party ever in Disney history, yet Its about as exciting as the Korean folding table in the old Millenium village. And they're marketing the heck out of it to boot.

[Another Voice]

“Being critical of something before seeing it again seems to be premature and more along the lines of the person going around "just looking for trouble".”

Actually, judging something before it’s built is called “designing” and “planning”. The reason people write scripts, make illustrations, go through rehearsals, and generally bother with all the messy bits the audience never sees is to insure that the final product is good. Everything that you see has been “criticized” thousands of times before the final product was “seen”. How imprudent!! Because you have to make judgments before you see the finished product so you can actually make the finished product.

On a more practical side, how many steel workers are going to drop the five grand for the family visit to WDW before they make a judgment if the parades are enjoyable or not? “I know it’s expensive honey, but how can we decide if we want to fix up the old car or take a family vacation until we know if we really like the Big Hat or not?”. The whole point of marketing and promotion is to give people the information they need to be critical of something BEFORE they see it. If the marketing is done well, people will be favorably inclined. At this point, however, the dominant image of the “celebration” is of a guy in a mouse suit riding on a large replica of the snow globe you can buy at the mall. I really hope it gets better, I really do. If the “celebration” seem under whelming to many of The Company’s biggest fans, how do they appear to the “average person”?

And flipping the argument around – how can you judge that ‘Mission:Space’ is going to be a GOOD attraction without having the experience first? How do you it’s NOT going to be bad. Are you, perhaps, making an opinion on the plans you’ve heard about, the Company’s reputation, and their past history? And if you “keep an open mind” and not make any decisions, does that means that plans and reputations mean nothing and you’re completely willing to spend money without making any kind of judgment beforehand? If all audiences were that easy to get into the theater…

P.S. – I agree with Mr. Pirate. While Walt didn’t want the trappings of fame, he sure wasn’t above lending his name to a “good cause”.

[Another Voice]

I really don’t ever remember saying any of the four new parades will “suck”. In fact, I don’t think I’ve commented on their quality one way or the other. I have written that I think four parades and a shop/hat is a poor celebration for the man who founded the company and pioneered so much of today’s media. And I have written that the parade at the Magic Kingdom seems to have an overly commercial aspect to it – that was both confirmed by the company and through the recent ads. But I am questioning the celebration’s motives, not its quality. Those are two vastly different subjects. A movie can start with the best of intentions and end up a stinker – just as skillfully created one can be evil at its core. I hope that my comments on one facet of an issue and not transferred automatically to another facet of the issue.

Your movie trailer analogy is dead on center. Whether the parades are good or not is irrelevant if no one sees them. People make judgments all the time based on only partial information – ads, trailers, brochures, friend’s opinions, billboards, brand names, and scores of other sources. I am certain that you don’t feel it’s necessary to see every movie that’s released every week. You make a decision based on what you think and feel. Occasionally, we are surprised when out initial perception turns out to be wrong. And that’s nice when it’s positive and when you spent just $7.50. But can you honestly expect that someone is going to take that same risk on a $3,500 vacation package? From what we have seen so far, are many people compelled to plunk down the MasterCard and book that room at the Polynesian? Perhaps we’ll all be surprised in a month – but it’s Disney’s job to get us excited about the event and to earn our business, not simply to expect our business.


P.S. – One of the works I have developed over the years is a set of Movie Laws much like the laws of physics. The first Law is that “the quality of any given trailer times the quality of the full movie itself equals a constant”. Thus, as one increases the other must decrease. In practical application: great trailer = bad movie , bad trailer = great movie.

[JeffJewell]

this "Disney sucks" because the "parades will suck" and "everything else sucks, sucks, sucks" ...is there any chance that you could limit your pontification to those statments that someone actually made?

There are people who are disappointed that the "Walt" celebration appears to be little more than advertisments for pin and snow globe sales. No where, except in your posts, have the parades been described as sucking.Watch the parades, then critique We're not critiquing the parades, we're critiquing the demonstrated emphasis of the celebration.

I notice that AV made a good point about your talking up the attractions without experiencing them, and wondering how that's much different than others talking them down without experiencing them. I also notice you avoided that point as if addressing it might give you Mad Cow disease...Go ahead, folks, say it all sucks. That's fine. And certainly not surprising. Go ahead, other folks, argue with statements no one ever made. That's fine. And certainly not surprising.

Jeff

[Peter Pirate]

I can't wait to see the Parades, I think they will be a great addition to my Park experience. Whether they should have been done apart of the Walt's Birthday celebration is besides the point to me. That they are bring done is the point and if they are good, or great then that is wonderful.

Further, aside from Scoop, I guess I am the only one really looking forward to Dino-Rama. The new small mouse coaster, by all accounts will be fun, the atmosphere projected by the carney games may be so 'kitschy' that it becomes fun. Walt used to do this all of the time, think of Jungle Cruise or Small world. Certainly even back in 1955 these ideas were meant to be taken with toungue firmly in cheek (and smile firmly on face). If you want to see these things as money making events only, well that is fine, but virtually everything The Disney Company has ever done, including Walt & Roy was guilty of the same thing. They never said they were benevolent (and they never were) and while they were certainly more imaginitive, conceptual & less blatent, the end result still had to be the same ($$$).

Perhaps Dinoland will be a big bust and I will be very sad, but I'll wait until that time that I actually know it's no good before I put on the gloomy puss! Perhaps the Parades and the kiosks and the Pin Trading events will appear shallow...Pehaps not...But I am looking forward to seeing it all, just like always...Rose Colored glasses firmly in place, thank you!
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

[JeffJewell]

For example, Jeff Jewell, you've posted several times that space is just going to be a spinner. I believe you will find that I said precisely once, tongue in cheek, that Mission:Space was a spinner, in a thread where we had previously discussed the Dumbo style spinners (most readers knew it was tongue in cheek, because Space's spinning ride mech is no secret to anyone, blueprints or no). My complaints about Mission:Space involve the budget cuts that turned the "trip into space" theme into a "ride a g-force simulator" theme.

Your statement "Jeff Jewell, you've posted several times that space is just going to be a spinner" is another fabrication on your part. Whether you missed my point about the theme or purposefully avoided it makes no real difference to me, but I made a valid (and unaddressed by you) point about theming, and you choose to argue with something you made up. I will continue to correct you on these points of fact involving my posts, even when (like now) you end up dragging us off-topic.

I am consistently only saying one thing: "Give them a Chance, Before Passing Judgment" Nothing more was intended, nothing less was intended. Who passed judgement on a parade? There are people who are disappointed that the "Walt" celebration appears to be little more than advertisments for pin and snow globe sales (golly, that sounds familiar, I wonder why the point hasn't been addressed?), but there has been NO ONE who has stated the parades "suck." No one.

The backlash is against the commercial nature of an alledged celebration of a creative entertainer. No one has bashed your precious parades.

Jeff

[DVC-Landbaron]

… but, I've got to try one last time.

Scoop,

Now that it's quite apparent that NO ONE wants to 'rain on the parades' ;). And now that you've found your center, and the real definition of this thread, what do you think? From everything you've heard or seen of it, do you think this type of "event" (and associated ad campaign, hype and sponsorship) is appropriate for Walt's 100 years?

I guess my point is they're really not even trying to hide the cheap commercialism of it. If nothing else it proves they're getting lazy, mixed in with a whole bunch of arrogance. :(

[JeffJewell]

...my point is that I did not see where anyone ever said the parades were bad, boring, or in any way non-spiffy.

I saw that there are people who are disappointed that the "Walt" celebration appears to be little more than advertisments for pin and snow globe sales (wow, deja vu).

No one said the parade and the BAH are crappy ads for pins and snow globes, just that they _are_ ads for pins and snowglobes. Some people think that wrapping up advertisements in a "Walt's Birthday Celebration" banner is an example of caring more about how much money can be accumulated in the shortest possible time-frame than about honoring a creative entertainer, and further, some people feel this is a bad direction for the Disney company.

Arguing that the above point should not be allowed to be made until we see if we like the parades or not, skirts the valid issue that has been raised in the thread.

Refering to those posters and opinions as "bashers" and "flames" only invites further comment. Predictably critical comment.

If you'd like to discuss the origins and implications of Disney's disguising advertisements as attractions honoring Walt, well, that's what it looked to me that we were doing in this thread. If I'm mistaken, and we were talking about whether or not we like the parades, well, I think the thread will die pretty quickly, as Steve and a few others are the only ones qualified to participate.

Jeff

[JeffJewell]

Selectively labelling these, on a whole, as "little more than advertisments for pin and snow globe sales" disregards the scope, costuming, theming, creation...in exchange for the IMPLICATION that Disney has created this celeb only to sell Pins and Snow Globes. What we've actually seen of the celebration is the BAH and the snippets of the snow globe parade. Even if the press releases all come true concerning the other attractions, we end up with "one new interactive exhibit focusing on Walt." During an alledged celebration of Walt's birth. It's that "focusing on Walt" that's the hairy part.

When you consider the relatively small level of attention being paid to the focus of the celebration in contrast to the high visibility of the pin and snow globe ads; when you consider that this celebration is merely one of a series of 15-month celebrations beginning two years apart with the intention of boosting attendance at a specific park; when you consider that the center of the celebration is a park Walt had nothing to do with, and actually contains a significant percentage of non-Disney content... well, when you consider all that, it's difficult for me to believe that the intention was to celebrate Walt's birth or his life.

When you consider those facts, doesn't it seem more likely that the impetus for the celebration was more for marketing reasons and less for Walt's legacy? It's fun to poke at "pins and snow globes" because Disney seems to be having so much fun pushing them out on the front of this wave, but the real marketing is simply to try to get people in the hotels. And no, that's obviously not a bad thing in and of itself, but there is a painful circularity here. How to get folks in the hotel? Walt celebration. What makes up the Walt celebration? Let's focus on the pin and snow globe sales. Using advertising to advertise more advertising.

I think the underlying theme of some of the complaints would go: "If you'd made the celebration focus more on Walt and less on the pins and globes, more people would have shown up." Unfortunately, that one's pretty tough to "prove," and we end up talking about what we personally like or do not like.

I'm not even knocking the pins and globes themselves, hell, I think the pins are a great idea, even though I don't partake. Pins are by definition a trinket to remind one of something special to them, and at Disney, $6-$10 seems rather reasonable for a trinket. Trading with CMs and other guests encourages interaction, and you know the little things cost Disney about 4 cents each, so it's pulling in some bucks when bucks are needed badly.

What I object to is the pins taking such a central focus in Walt's celebration. I think "pins" were what Walt used to hold up storyboards, but other than that, I see no connection.

I'm also not knocking sponsorship, let me thank RCA right now for getting Space Mountain built. Again, I feel the problem in the current scenario is the circularity: let's get a sponsor to pay for the parade and hat to advertise the pins and globes.

To paraphrase Clara Peller, "where's the Walt" in this Walt celebration? Believe me, if Hallmark's contributions were used to return the Walt Disney Story to the Expo center, to restore the original, educational soundtrack to the WEDway in place of the insipid spiel there now, to build an unfinished idea of Walt's into a new E-ticket, that kind of thing, well, I doubt there'd be much flak, even if they tried to sell us a pin or two while they were at it. That's not the focus they took.This, in conjunction with a careful examination of each celeb "event" causes me to disagree with the statement that It's okay that you disagree, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "careful examination of each celeb "event."" Are you saying that this celebration has about as much Walt content as, for instance, the Millenium celebration had Millenium content (I really mean that as a simple question, not a confrontation. Actually, if I accurately summed up your meaning, I'll not argue with the assertion. I do view it as more of an indictment of the Millenium Celebration, rather than a feather in the cap of the Walt Celebration, though)?

Jeff

[JeffJewell]

That is, has been, and remains my only point in this discussion. That point has been made, and I, at least, agree with it (you dug up the quote yourself). I also don't see anyone else arguing against that point.

We're talking about something else entirely here, in case you'd care to take part in _that_ discussion.

Jeff

[Sarangel]

Alright, Ladies & Gentlemen. This post has become more of an arguement than a discussion. I'm going to close it to give the parties concerned a chance to cool off. If necessary, we can begin another thread about whether or not the celebration is too commercial.

Sarangel