PDA

View Full Version : FastPass of the Future? Will DVC be a segment?


kathleena
05-17-2005, 09:30 AM
This is being discussed on another website - Disney has filed an application for a patent for expansion of FastPass.

Sound like they are trying to cover all their bases for any dreamed up future use - but check this out if you have a lot of time to read!

And remember - this is just an application - it doesn't mean they will actually do all this stuff and doesn't imply when - just very interesting all the stuff they are thinking about.....................

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20050060173&OS=20050060173&RS=20050060173

tjkraz
05-17-2005, 10:33 AM
Read a little more about it here:

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1449

DisFlan
05-17-2005, 11:09 AM
I just saw this on Jim Hill's site, too. Wow! Pay To Play. Lots of FPs if you stay at a Deluxe, lots fewer if you pull into the campground. And it sounds like none, or very few, for off-siters.

As JH says, this might not start tomorrow, but it sure sounds like it's on the way. Yup, I wonder where DVC sits on the scale, too. Are we considered near the "priority" end? Or are we considered a captive audience since most of us aren't going to be seduced into paying for deluxe hotels?

Do I smell a letter campaign?


DisFlan

TammyAlphabet
05-17-2005, 11:14 AM
Given that Universal is filling their "very" expensive resorts with the Front of the line access, I would think that some type of priority for onsite guests would help to fill the rooms that are existing onsite. And, to leave DVC out of this would leave a really bad taste in the mouth of prospective buyers.....

pplasky
05-17-2005, 11:17 AM
I think this is a shame. This is one of the things I dislike about Universal, you either have to pay an enormous amount of money to stay on site or pay for a one express per ride at about $40 a head. If you can't afford these two options you may be able to get one or two express passes, but otherwise be prepared to wait. People pay alot of money just to get into the parks, they shouldn't be made to feel like second class citizens because they can't afford to up the ante. While we stay on property at Disney, I think it will make alot of vacationers disapointed and make a return visit more unlikey.

dianeschlicht
05-17-2005, 11:26 AM
I guess I don't understand why Disney didn't start doing it that way right away. Now that they have already given the perk to EVERYONE, it seems to me it would be hard to do away with it. I don't disagree that people who stay on-site should have added priveledge, I just think it would be hard to change at this point.

DisFlan
05-17-2005, 12:10 PM
I can see Pay to Play as a positive perk for DVC sales if they choose to use it that way, and I have no opposition to priority for resort guests, but wow, it's going to be a big PR headache with the people who have always stayed off-site if they get NO FPs. And with locals who are in the parks a lot.

DisFlan

barbarabee
05-17-2005, 12:14 PM
I guess I don't understand why Disney didn't start doing it that way right away. Now that they have already given the perk to EVERYONE, it seems to me it would be hard to do away with it. I don't disagree that people who stay on-site should have added priveledge, I just think it would be hard to change at this point.

It's kind of like the drug dealers...the first fix is free.

Mickmse2002
05-17-2005, 12:19 PM
I really would hate to see WDW turned into a class warfare zone. Access to an attraction shouldn't be dependent on the cost of your hotel room. I like the original concept of Fast Pass as everyone has the same opportunity to use it. Many choose not too for whatever reason.

momsgoofy
05-17-2005, 12:20 PM
Aren't we (DVC resorts) considered the "Home Away From Home" resorts and when I look at any rack rate info, guide books, etc. we are usually listed above or sometimes right below the deluxe resorts on the WDW Resort Totem Pole...besides...what would they do for those non DVCers who choose to stay at one of the "Home Away From Home" resorts? I mean, they'd have to allow all guests at the resort use of this potential Pay and Play or none at all? Nope, guess not...guess they could do it like the Mousekeeping...we, DVCers only get select mousekeeping whereas those non DVCer get mousekeeping daily...I am right on that point aren't I?

Oh, well, we'll just have to see how this transpires! I am just amazed at how ya'll come up with this stuff. The abundance of knowledge by DISsers is awesome! Thanks for sharing!

AmyBeth68
05-17-2005, 01:07 PM
I read this earlier today and wondered the same thing....where does DVC fit into all of this??? :confused3

I'm not going to get too worked up over this right now. It just seems like a PR nightmare! They'd have to offer some type of perks for Florida resident passholders and AP holders IMHO. But the whole thing makes me a bit nervous...I personally feel that the FP system is great now! At least it works to my advantage LOL! I still don't understand why sooooo many people don't use them.

Oh well....this should be a very interesting topic to watch. I can't imagine whats going on over on the theme parks board right now with this topic. Maybe I should grab a cup of coffee and go check it out ;).

TammyAlphabet
05-17-2005, 01:12 PM
Hey Momsgoofy,

I am in Southern Illinois too, Carbondale!! Hi neighbor!!!

lllovell
05-17-2005, 01:40 PM
I am not sure I agree with this, but it certainly makes me glad I have my SSR points and that I like my resort and want to stay there. I see it becoming harder and harder to get onsite nights if this happens. I think that on one hand it is INCREDIBLY smart on Disney's part (much like ME which keeps people onsite without cars to leave to eat or do other Orlando attractions). On the other hand, I am concerned about people like a dear friend of mine that saves up all year to take his son for 5 days, staying at Pop or All Stars to make his buck go further, being frugal so that his son can enjoy himself. The good news for my friend is he travels off season which means no lines and not many fast passes available anyway. The bad news for most people like him is they can't travel off season and will be stuck in very long lines (well - maybe not longer though...I can't believe how many dont use fastpass now).

Disney has never been a cheap vacation but it is obtainable to most everyone that really desires to go. I also can't see them truly shorting the people at the Pop and All Stars because there are THOUSANDS of hotel rooms there and they want to keep them full as well. I am thinking it will end up being more like EMHs are now. Strictly an onsite perk. If they lower end packages are given enough fast passes, then I don't see many griping at all. If they aren't, well, I won't be staying at the value resorts.

The down side to me about this is ALL THAT PLANNING! You can certainly change your mind about things but if you decide that you would rather have lunch at EPCOT and all your Fast Pass "appointments" are at MK, you just lose out. I can see me planning a bit the night before, but if everyone is trying for the same time periods, it will be like trying to make a "day of" PS now that the dining package is in place - there just won't be many spots left. I plan a little bit, a PS here or there, but mostly we are pretty flexible when at the world and I would hate to lose that. Those of us with small children are really at the whim of their emotions and day anyway.

I, for one, think this is going to be a nightmare to implement - but didn't most think that MYW ticketing was going to be horrible? I haven't seem many problems from it at all other than maybe taking 3-4 minutes to get into the parks at the turnstiles now. No biggie to me....we just slide down the line and find a short one and get on in :).

cpbjgc
05-17-2005, 01:59 PM
I just read the Jim Hill article and saw there was an update:

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1452

The future is here!

Funny, I didn't see this listed as a DVC member perk... :confused3

Simba's Mom
05-17-2005, 02:43 PM
My first reaction to this was to wonder how people will try to "beat the system". Disney doesn't really see who gets the FPs, do they? Or did I miss something? I mean, couldn't an off-site "friend" of the deluxe on-property guest get a FP just by visiting? Will FPs have the person's name and be non-transferrable, kind of like the AP? Hey, maybe they'll start using biometric scanners to make sure the right person is using the FP? Of course, like every other DVC member, I'm kind of wondering where we fit in. And if DVC members stay at a value resort, are the FPs allocated like a value resort guest or (I hope) like a DVC member?

lllovell
05-17-2005, 02:50 PM
DVC isn't specifically mentioned, so who knows.

The FP tickets will be tied to your keys to the world. This is another attempt to keep people from putting more people in one room than are supposed to be in that room. You will use either the internet, special kiosk or a system in your room to sign up for as many FP times as you are allocated for each day of your stay. I am not sure if it prints something out or if you would simply scan your KTTW and be allowed to enter the FP line, but either way, if you are not staying onsite, you wouldn't have a KTTW and it wont work.

All that said, annual pass holders are not mentioned either and I cannot imagine WDW not allowing them some sort of perk as well. They dont want to lose those repeat people, especially the Florida residents that don't often rent hotel rooms but are frequent guests to WDW, so I am guessing it would work the same for them with a scan of your AP to get you in the FP line at your scheduled time.

I also bet, they will offer fast passes at the parks for any times that are not "pre scheduled" so everyone will still have some shot, but mostly I think this is going to be another attempt to get people to stay onsite.

Happy Birthday Cat
05-17-2005, 02:51 PM
When I first read the article, my first thought was the DVC members would somehow be excluded because we are currently excluded from many of the package deals that Disney runs. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the future. I think right now, Disney is just protecting their patent rights for all of the ways fast pass can operate. Whether they use them or not, only time will tell. But I certainly hope when they do, DVC members are not forgotten.

HBC

DisFlan
05-17-2005, 03:01 PM
cpbjgc - I'd bet there are already a variety of VIP perks/passes that we peons don't often hear about. An FP "pass" would seem logical. If you booked a Presidential Suite for a month and staff to go with it after you just paid for your daughter's $200,000 Disney wedding w/fireworks, you'd probably get an FP pass if you wanted it. The cost to Disney would be zilch. I bet they'd even throw in a couple of free Mickey Ears.

DisFlan

tjkraz
05-17-2005, 03:53 PM
When I first read the article, my first thought was the DVC members would somehow be excluded because we are currently excluded from many of the package deals that Disney runs.

I tend to doubt that. As long as DVC is actively selling points, they'll keep us on par with the Deluxe resorts. The last thing they want is FastPass envy to keep someone from deciding to commit $20K on a DVC purchase.

LeftCoaster
05-17-2005, 04:51 PM
I just read the Jim Hill article and saw there was an update:

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1452

The future is here!

Funny, I didn't see this listed as a DVC member perk... :confused3


I think that JHM update is much ado about nothing. Those "special" types of fastpasses have been in existance for quite some time. The only thing different about it this time is that it's being added into a perk on a Disney auction.
At DL, they also have special anytime fastpasses that are to be used when an attraction breaks down, etc. It'll get you onto basically any attraction and sometimes you can go through the exit for it.

Tiffster7
05-17-2005, 04:58 PM
Those passes have existed before specifically for Make A Wish Foundation Guests- so I guess they are trying to be competetive with Universal and tie more money into it.

OneMoreTry
05-17-2005, 05:02 PM
In the future FastPasses will require a 666 on the forehead.

Tiffster7
05-17-2005, 05:04 PM
NAH- just a chip implanted in your palm. That's bad enough! Of course some of my friends think Mickey is Satan so it fits.

keishashadow
05-17-2005, 07:47 PM
On occasion, the FastPass machine does give out "bonus/extra" fastpasses for the given attraction at a later time. Not sure if they're trying a form of crowd control or whether it's a perc ;)

With much fanfare, WDW is touting how inexpensive it is to visit on-site (MYW base tickets, AS resorts, etc.). Heck, they're even offering to haul you back & forth "free". A captive audience can't spend any of those vacation dollars off-site.

Call me cynical, but the next shoe to drop will be the new FP system. Remember the demise of early entry and the "replacement character caravan" fiasco?

If the proposed new FP system is based on how much your on-site accommodations cost, I do hope the DVC's are placed in the Deluxe category. I assume they'd also consider in park spending for people staying off site (tickets, meals, purchases, etc.) to even the playing field.

My heart belongs to Disney, BUT it sure was nice to have FOTL @ Universal. It is my understanding that during peak season, the privledge is limited to 1 FOTL for each ride until 3:00 p.m. With standard available discounts, the room rates @ Loews were less expensive than many of the deluxe offerings @ WDW. Especially when you compare points versus their rate for Friday & Saturday nights.

Just when you think you've got WDW all figured out, they throw another curve - does keep things interesting.

momsgoofy
05-17-2005, 11:18 PM
Hey Momsgoofy,

I am in Southern Illinois too, Carbondale!! Hi neighbor!!!


Well, it really is a small world after all!!! :wave2:

I'm just a stone's throw away...Herrin!

bicker
05-18-2005, 07:56 AM
I think it is important for a business to consider all angles when considering changes like this. There's nothing inherently faulty about providing priority for certain guests over others. It works very effectively in many cases. I do worry about where we DVC members would land in such a situation. We've always been told that, except for housekeeping, we'll be treated as any other guest in our hotel. I suspect Disney will adhere to that, certain as long as they hope to sell new DVC memberships. It might be worth worrying about if Disney ever stops building DVC resorts.

On the Walt Disney World home page, right now, "Home away from Home" resorts is listed below the Value resorts (in the "Resorts" menu). Same story on the Resorts Overview Page: http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/resorts/resortOverview?id=ResortOverviewPage

Doc and Family
05-18-2005, 09:58 AM
For what it's worth, these types of passes do already exist.
One of my wife's best friends just got back from WDW.
They added on points to their contract--no big deal right?
When the van dropped them back off at the Poly, where they were staying, they got off with another family, who bought points at the SSR de novo.
They mentioned that they had forgotten something at the sales center and went back to get it. They also mentioned that they were on their way out and wanted to know if my friends would be interested in fast passes that were good all day and on every ride. Who would say no? So they said thanks and used them--fast pass line for everything and no one ever collected the tickets from them.

They were a little miffed that the other family was given these to use after their initial purchase, and they were given nothing after their second add-on.

Still, it is all speculation, but with enough evidence of possible credence that it deserves watching, but not excessive worry at this point. I think it may be wise to contact the powers that be at DVC and let them know how we, as members, expect to be included in this IF it does happen.

To exclude DVC would, IMHO, hurt sales tremendously. Why would someone buy into DVC and take frequent trips and spend thousands and thousands of dollars to stand in line while watching the GF, PR, CR guests get the FPs?

True, we are captive--to some extent. But there are a fair number of DVC members who spend a lot of money there. I think it would be better to be proactive and start contacting people at DVC and let them know we expect to be included and treated like Deluxe resort guests, instead of trying to be reactive to change something that we may not like.

I may be way off base, but that's my $0.02 worth. The best defense is a good offense--so let's go on the offensive and start contacting those at DVC who need to hear us.

Have a great day everyone! :wave:

fkj2
05-18-2005, 10:04 AM
I can see Disney trying this while the crowds are huge and tourism is great but if/when things slow down, as a cyclical industry like tourism does, the concept may have offended a lot of off-site and value guests.

Everyone pays for an admission ticket and I think everyone should have an equal chance at getting a FP for an attraction. We'd all like to think we're special but for those who really have to save and scrimp to afford a trip to Disney, being able to enjoy those highly desirable attractions may be more meaningful than for those who can say, "OK, I didn't get to ride TOT this trip, I'll come down again in four months and do it." One of the bus drivers told me that Disney has figured that the average family of four spends about $5600 for a week at WDW, and I'm not sure that includes the airfare. That's a lot of money. You ought to be able to get the FP for that.

I don't think that this is what Walt had in mind.

tjkraz
05-18-2005, 10:13 AM
Just to keep things in perspective, I don't think anyone is talking about eliminating FastPass altogether for on-site guests. If I understand the source document correctly, those staying at Deluxe resorts might be able to hold multiple FPs at once, or have an almost immediate return time. Meanwhile those at Value resorts would have a system closer to what exists today, with a more distant return time printed on the ticket.

If anything, the ones who stand to lose appear to be those staying off-site. The trade-off is a much better perk for those staying at Deluxe resorts, and a somewhat better perk for those staying at Moderate resorts.

Northern Lights
05-18-2005, 11:51 AM
$5600!!! We have always stayed between 6-8 nights at Deluxe hotels, bought a few pictures, done at least 2 character meals and at least one other nice dinner, spent $200-$300 on souvenirs and have never come close to spending $5000 on a WDW vacation. In fact, we have never spent more than $3200. Either Disney's market study is wrong, or we have been missing out! We are not big drinkers and eaters, and we always have a quick breakfast of cereal bars and fruit (which is what we eat at home plus we can get to the parks at opening easier), so that might help keep our costs down, but $5600 seems way off base.

Back to the original topic, I view FPs as an essential part of my park touring plans. Now, I don't need an all-day FP good for every attraction, the current system works just fine for us. We enjoy leaving the parks in the early afternoon and returning after dinner for a couple of hours. Thus, we use at most 4-5 sets of FP per day, but they are vital to keeping our wait times down to less than 5-10 minutes per attraction.

We bought DVC b/c we wanted to stay at the deluxe resorts w/o having the hassle of finding this or that code, plus we wanted the kitchenette for the baby. We may use the points for a 1BR if we decide to only go once per year, but we will never cook full meals on vacation so we have zero need for a full kitchen (yes, the master suite and laundry room are lovely but we can "rough it" for a week if it means squeezing an extra week of vacation per year). If DVC members were ever relegated to off-site status or value resort status with respect to use of the FP system, we would sell our contract or always rent out the points and stay exclusively at the deluxes.

Now, all that being said, I think this is much ado about nothing at this point. BUT, if Disney is trying to figure out how to beat Universal at its FOTL game, then we could be in trouble. I think Disney tried with the Extra Magic Hours and perhaps they are not seeing the increase in on-site bookings that they thought that might generate. I think ME is also an attempt to increase the on-site bookings. Disney's problem is that they have many more rooms to fill than Universal. Thus, Universal can afford to have a meaningful FOTL pass since there is currently a limited number of on-site guests based on availability. If every Disney on-site guest got a FOTL pass, it might only create a meaningless second queue. I have never stayed at a Universal hotel nor been to a Universal theme park - perhaps when the kids get older but certainly not anytime soon - but it is my understanding that Universal only has 3 hotels and each one is comparable (in terms of price, NOT amenities, etc. as I know some have strong opinions on this) to a deluxe Disney hotel. Point being, if Disney is trying to offer a FOTL type perk to compete with Universal, it does make sense that only the deluxe hotels would receive it.

One question I would like answered though is Disney really having trouble with on-site occupancy? And if so, is it spread amongst all levels of resorts, or at a particular level? Based on my limited experience in trying to book vacations, the deluxe resorts seem to be doing pretty well and if so, I'm not sure we need to worry too much about this situation.

One final editorial comment, I understand Disney's desire to "democratize" the on-site properties with values and moderates, although I think the purpose was to simply capture the business of those staying at the chains and independents just outside the gate. That being said, I know Cadillac tried to "democratize" its luxury lines in the 80's, a strategy that totally backfired and enabled the German and Japanese luxury lines to come onto Cadillac's traditional turf and trounce the pants off of it. When I was a kid, we never stayed at Disney b/c we either couldn't afford it or my parents did not want to pay for the premium. Now, the American car industry doesn't understand that it is the product, stupid. IMO Disney still has a fantastic product - but it can't rest on its laurels. Spruce up those deluxe hotels, ensure the level of Disney customer service remains magical, keep your attractions family based but on the cutting edge of technology (Soarin, Philharmagic, etc.) and people will come. Try to save a few bucks here and there - like building Six Flags, carnival level trash parks like California Adventure, alienate your most loyal customers like DVC members with exclusionary FP gimmicks, and watch yourself become the Cadillac of the theme park entertainment industry.

bicker
05-18-2005, 12:42 PM
I don't think that this is what Walt had in mind.As Northern Lights alluded to, as far as we know, what Walt had in mind was all deluxe resorts plus the campgrounds -- that's it. The moderates were added to the master plan long after Walt was dead.

Remember, what Walt had in mind for EPCOT is a far cry from what it is. I don't believe there is much relevance in relying on what Walt had in mind for much of anything, any more. The directors of the Disney Company have an obligation to advance the Disney legacy, not slave themselves to the boundaries of what Walt wanted.

bicker
05-18-2005, 12:47 PM
duplicate post

Granny
05-18-2005, 01:30 PM
I think this is a shame. This is one of the things I dislike about Universal, you either have to pay an enormous amount of money to stay on site or pay for a one express per ride at about $40 a head. If you can't afford these two options you may be able to get one or two express passes, but otherwise be prepared to wait. People pay alot of money just to get into the parks, they shouldn't be made to feel like second class citizens because they can't afford to up the ante. While we stay on property at Disney, I think it will make alot of vacationers disapointed and make a return visit more unlikey.
I agree with this post 200%.

2nd class citizen is the very phrase I have used to describe visiting Universal parks as an off-site guest.

With Disney resorts at record-setting occupancy rates, I don't see why Disney would want to stir up this hornet nest. I agree that this is probably a rumor at best. At least, that's what I'm hoping.

Granny
05-18-2005, 01:36 PM
I think this is a shame. This is one of the things I dislike about Universal, you either have to pay an enormous amount of money to stay on site or pay for a one express per ride at about $40 a head. If you can't afford these two options you may be able to get one or two express passes, but otherwise be prepared to wait. People pay alot of money just to get into the parks, they shouldn't be made to feel like second class citizens because they can't afford to up the ante. While we stay on property at Disney, I think it will make alot of vacationers disapointed and make a return visit more unlikey.
I agree with this post 200%.

2nd class citizen is the very phrase I have used to describe visiting Universal parks as an off-site guest.

With Disney resorts at record-setting occupancy rates, I don't see why Disney would want to stir up this hornet nest. I agree that this is probably a rumor at best. At least, that's what I'm hoping.

patrenoe
05-18-2005, 03:16 PM
Are you kidding me? I have been going to DL back in the day 1959 !! Do I feel sorry for those that could not go way back then. NO, I don't think so.I also don't feel bad for those that say its a right to go to WDW. Please feel free to flame me. I really don't care anymore. :flower:

bicker
05-18-2005, 04:36 PM
With Disney resorts at record-setting occupancy rates, I don't see why Disney would want to stir up this hornet nest.On the contrary: When demand is the highest is the best time to try-out or float changes like this.

Granny
05-18-2005, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Granny
With Disney resorts at record-setting occupancy rates, I don't see why Disney would want to stir up this hornet nest.

On the contrary: When demand is the highest is the best time to try-out or float changes like this.More than most companies, Disney relies on its goodwill to command the pricing and demand for its products.

I'd hate to be the guy they point to next year and say "So you had to try that ridiculous Fast Pass charging system and screwed up our positive occupancy and park guest numbers!" :sad2:

There's something to be said for business momentum, and for having the upper hand over competition. To me, this would be a PR disaster.

tjkraz
05-18-2005, 04:51 PM
With Disney resorts at record-setting occupancy rates, I don't see why Disney would want to stir up this hornet nest.

I wasn't aware that occupancy levels were that high, but even still, occupancy at WDW is always tempered by the necessity for discount programs to actually fill those rooms. I'm sure they'd like nothing more than to be able to decrease the number of rooms offered via discount codes (AP, AAA, etc.)

bicker
05-18-2005, 04:57 PM
I'd hate to be the guy they point to next year and say "So you had to try that ridiculous Fast Pass charging system and screwed up our positive occupancy and park guest numbers!" :sad2: It highly unlikely that such a change would have that kind of impact, anyway.

There's something to be said for business momentum, and for having the upper hand over competition. To me, this would be a PR disaster.We'll just have to agree to disagree there.

tjkraz
05-18-2005, 05:09 PM
To me, this would be a PR disaster.

I think the key will be how much or little they change the current FastPass system, while expanding it for some guests. There are a lot of examples of perks available to different select groups which don't equate to a "PR disaster":

* Extra Magic Hours available only to Disney resort guests.
* E-Ride Nights available only to Disney resort guests.
* Animal Kingdom tours available only to AKL Concierge guests.
* Concierge lounges available only to Concierge guests.
* Preferential seating at shows and parades included with some trip packages.
* Attraction preview events limited to AP and DVC.
* DVC discounts like the Golf package and AP discount.
* AP holder discount programs.
* Florida resident discount programs.
* DDE card available only to AP holders and residents.
* Instant FastPasses given as perk for DVC tour.

From a purely business standpoint, I think it's a brilliant idea. There's no question that it will cause increases in resort occupancy levels--particularly if FastPass is eliminated or scaled-back for off-site guests.

Whether it is to be a "PR disaster" or not depends on a lot of factors that we are years away from being able to judge.

donaldbuzz&minnie
05-18-2005, 05:19 PM
Am I missing something here? Wouldn't it be possible for Disney to leave in place the current FP system that has people walking all over the park to pick up one FP at a time, and add on top of that a perk for Deluxe Resort visitors that is more convenient for them than that? I'm definitely not advocating the new system - I like things the way they are - just asking if the new system would necessarily supplant the old, or just be in addition to it.

Just thought of something else. If the old system completely disappears and FP is only available to the customers with the most $ to spend, and DVC is not included, would DVC'ers tend to get frustrated enough to rent out their points more frequently, taking business from customers who might normally book deluxe accommodations directly from Disney?

jarestel
05-18-2005, 05:23 PM
If the non-deluxe or off-site staying guests find that their wait times for rides are increasing due to the new fast pass system, it's very likely that some, if not many, may decide WDW is no longer a destination at which they want to spend their vacation dollars. After all, the prospect of spending a fairly large sum of money to buy park tickets for a family of 4 and then spending a couple of hours or more in line just to get on the popular attractions isn't something most people would consider as money well spent.

If Disney is considering throwing away a segment of their repeat business, this could be a gamble. Of course, they could always toss out the program if it didn't work by saying "we listened to our guests and are now giving you what you want" and then offer a bunch of discounted packages to get people excited about returning. But there is such a thing as killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Granny
05-18-2005, 05:40 PM
It highly unlikely that such a change would have that kind of impact, anyway.

We'll just have to agree to disagree there.Fair enough.

I just know how bad the Universal Studios experience is for off-site guests who don't fork out the extra money for their FOTL passes during heavy crowd seasons.

And I think WDW has a legion of very loyal guests who stay off-site who may or may not care about this.

Had they introduced this from the start, I'm sure it would have been accepted similar to the other items on tjkraz's list.

On the other hand, here's a small sampling of the comments over on the Theme Park Attractions board:

This sounds like discrimination.
I hope this dosen't go through.
Next thing you will have to use a cc to pay for a FP at the machine.

One problem I see with this is traveling with multiple families but staying at different hotels. We're having about 25 of us going down at once this year all staying at different hotels/time shares, on and off site. This sort of fastpass arraingement will make it very hard to do anything together.

I agree with the last post, Disney wanted everyone to enjoy the parks equally, all this well I'm paying $500 a night so I should get better treatment is just snobbish. Im sorry to everyone who can afford it and doesn't think they should get preferential treatment because they make more money and can afford more. Its just a convuluted way of saying Im better then you because I make more money and I'm going to show it...

That's just disgusting.

I have read elsewhere about FOTL at Universal, and its a mess because it makes everyone but hotel guests feel like second class citizens.

I wouldn't like a new system like this. We only stay onsite but never can afford the deluxes. Our budget is value and maybe moderate if there's a good code.

Just disgusting. I love how everyone who can afford to go deluxe feels so entitled to bigger and better and more. Perhaps if they downgraded and gave the money to a family who had never been to the parks becasue paying rent is pretty difficult they might find the kind of joy that their heart is really desiring.

Don't misunderstand. Most people work very hard for their money and deserve to spend it as they see fit. If it is on a deluxe vacation, good for them. But to automatically assume that you deserve better than the family that has been saving for the past eight years to get to WDW one time in a budget resort with their children is elitist and says alot about your character

Maybe it wouldn't be a big deal.

As indicated, only time will tell.

Thanks for the thoughtful discussion, and the ability to disagree on opinions without flames. :)

bicker
05-18-2005, 05:42 PM
Am I missing something here? Wouldn't it be possible for Disney to leave in place the current FP system that has people walking all over the park to pick up one FP at a time, and add on top of that a perk for Deluxe Resort visitors that is more convenient for them than that?Nope, you're not missing anything, AFAIC.

CharlesTD
05-18-2005, 08:22 PM
I personally don't think we will fit to high into this system as they know we stay there year after year they allready have our money for resort stays. That or it will be offered in place of the current AP discount etc or in conjunction to a new pass system for DVC members. None of which I really care about as we never use AP's and in Dec we have never really had to use FP's either. So for this DVC member I really could care less how it works or where we fit into the plans.

fkj2
05-18-2005, 09:20 PM
What I really meant when I made reference to "what Walt would have wanted" is the discrepancy that would occur in how all the guests would be treated if such a plan as discussed here goes into effect. I can't imagine that he would have supported favoring one class of guest over another. While I realize that business is business, I just think it's tacky to connive a system that ranks guests based on the accommodations they're willing to pay for. It isn't like anyone is entering the parks for free; the price of admission should cover it.

As to the quote from the bus driver of $5600/week, I wouldn't necessarily discount it. Remember, that's an average. I was shopping for a watch when I visited WDW in April and a nice one caught my eye at one of the shops at the Studios. $400. I passed, at least until I hit the lottery. I got to chatting with the cast member who pointed out the watch next to it, which was really nice, was $1000, and told me I'd probably be surprised at how many people whip out a credit card and purchase it, apparently not concerned about the price. I have to admit that I was amazed at the crowds at WDW at the end of April and everyone seemed to be shopping and dining. The first night I arrived, 4/23, I got a sandwich at the Earl of Sandwich, probably standing in line for 40 minutes. It had to be around 8:30 pm or slightly later. Chatting with people around me, I learned that some were just getting a snack to tide them over while they waited two hours to get into a sit down restaurant at Downtown Disney.

donaldbuzz&minnie
05-18-2005, 09:26 PM
Just curious. What does AFAIC mean??

CharlesTD
05-18-2005, 09:37 PM
I have a Mickey Mouse Tag Heuer that was 1000.00 dollars US I paid cash for it and I could have gotten the same watch at home for 850.00 Canadian but minus the mickey in it. So it just proves that people that want something will pay for it on vacation no matter the price tag in many situations.

bicker
05-19-2005, 07:08 AM
What I really meant when I made reference to "what Walt would have wanted" is the discrepancy that would occur in how all the guests would be treated if such a plan as discussed here goes into effect.Similar to the Early Entry / Surprise Morning program, which was very successful for many years.

I can't imagine that he would have supported favoring one class of guest over another.I suggest you read some of the biographies, then. You're completely off-base with you characterizations of Walt Disney as some 1990s liberal.

While I realize that business is business, I just think it's tacky to connive a system that ranks guests based on the accommodations they're willing to pay for.I respect your personal feelings on the practice. I think the point folks have been making in opposition to your perspective is that these types of practices are not considered "tacky" (or even "connived"), in general. This is just about the most basic business practice there is: Better service or better product for better compensation.

It isn't like anyone is entering the parks for free; the price of admission should cover it.It is important to ask yourself: "should" based on what? The most important "shoulds" in situations like this are: (1) Promise only what you intend to deliver; (2) Deliver what you promise; and (3) Price products and services based on their perceived value, as much as the market will bear.

Just curious. What does AFAIC mean??This is a great resource for the most commonly-used online acronyms: http://kb.iu.edu/data/adkc.html?cust=697760.93026.30

salmoneous
09-06-2007, 02:06 PM
This is being discussed on another website - Disney has filed an application for a patent for expansion of FastPass.

Sound like they are trying to cover all their bases for any dreamed up future use - but check this out if you have a lot of time to read!

And remember - this is just an application - it doesn't mean they will actually do all this stuff and doesn't imply when - just very interesting all the stuff they are thinking about.....................

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20050060173&OS=20050060173&RS=20050060173 I wonder if Disney will implement any of this, or if 2+ years from now we will still be discussing it.

highoctane
09-06-2007, 02:17 PM
I can see Pay to Play as a positive perk for DVC sales if they choose to use it that way, and I have no opposition to priority for resort guests, but wow, it's going to be a big PR headache with the people who have always stayed off-site if they get NO FPs. And with locals who are in the parks a lot.

DisFlan
I have always wished that the FP should be for people staying at the parks or AP holders. Why not use it as an added perk?

dianeschlicht
09-06-2007, 02:32 PM
I wonder if Disney will implement any of this, or if 2+ years from now we will still be discussing it.

So what promted you to bring this forward more than 2 years after it was originally posted?

GusMan
09-06-2007, 04:51 PM
It was because it looks like the patent was applied for last week. (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=disney&s2=greenberg&OS=disney%2BAND%2Bgreenberg&RS=disney%2BAND%2Bgreenberg)

So I expect this will be revived as a current topic.

DebbieB
09-06-2007, 05:01 PM
This has been discussed for a long time on the Jim Hill site, about giving more fastpasses to people staying at higher end hotels. The wireless part is new.

If you look at the date on the filing it's August 29,
2006 (down farther).

Who are the 3 "inventors"?

Mtnman44
09-06-2007, 06:50 PM
In the future FastPasses will require a 666 on the forehead.


:lmao: :rotfl2: :lmao: :rotfl2: :lmao: :rotfl2: :lmao: :rotfl2: :lmao: :rotfl2:

I get any kind of tattoo they want if it gives me lifetime FP!

JimMIA
09-06-2007, 06:56 PM
I would like to take a moment to note that I did NOT bite on this two-year old thread! :thumbsup2

Unlike that other one I bit on a couple of weeks ago...:upsidedow

keishashadow
09-06-2007, 07:05 PM
everything old is new again;)

wonder if they will implement it this time, or just sit it back on the shelf?

better yet, still wonder how DVC will fit in:confused3 ; just hope they don't decide to base # of FP on actual spending for each vacation either:

*prepaids (DP, MYW tix purchase etc.)

*$ spent while on vacation; or

*resort level/cost

3DisneyKids
09-06-2007, 07:08 PM
popcorn::

cobbler
09-06-2007, 07:51 PM
Holy old thread Batman.

La2kw
09-06-2007, 09:40 PM
I think this is a shame. This is one of the things I dislike about Universal, you either have to pay an enormous amount of money to stay on site or pay for a one express per ride at about $40 a head. If you can't afford these two options you may be able to get one or two express passes, but otherwise be prepared to wait. People pay alot of money just to get into the parks, they shouldn't be made to feel like second class citizens because they can't afford to up the ante. While we stay on property at Disney, I think it will make alot of vacationers disapointed and make a return visit more unlikey.

I think it's a great perk at Universal. The Universal resorts are beautiful resorts, run by Loews. They rates are certainly cheaper than Disney's deluxe resorts and the service is much better than Disney. It's worth every penny, IMO. The FOTL is just icing on the cake. Universal tickets are also a lot cheaper than Disney tickets.

KevGuy
09-06-2007, 11:03 PM
I hope they give DVC members top priority equal to the other deluxe resorts when it happens. It's about time Disney gave us a perk instead of more fees or reduced perks, after all we are the ones who dump all our money into their laps and keep doing so with a smile lol.:cool1: Everyone knows you can never have enough points! :thumbsup2

JPC
09-06-2007, 11:07 PM
I was still in diapers when this thread started.:coffee:

I am now 88!

TDC Nala
09-07-2007, 08:13 PM
so, what would occur if I went down there and stayed in my DVC room and got fastpasses, but wanted to do the parks with my local friends? No fastpasses for my friends? Can I give them fastpasses?

Not everybody travels in family groups that stay in hotels together (Okay, maybe the vast majority do).

I think the AP discount is a pretty good perq so I wouldn't say we don't have any.

edk35
09-07-2007, 10:00 PM
:rotfl2: How will my TGM fit into this possible change??? YIKES. I shutter to think what will happen with my future trips if DVC is not included and how this will affect us loyal TGM fanatics and the planning we all love.

bicker
09-08-2007, 05:21 AM
so, what would occur if I went down there and stayed in my DVC room and got fastpasses, but wanted to do the parks with my local friends? No fastpasses for my friends? Can I give them fastpasses?I would hope not. That would lead to too much abuse IMHO. When I travel with friends, and I have a benefit that they don't have, I forgo the benefit in favor of spending time with my friends.

TDC Nala
09-08-2007, 08:28 AM
I would hope not. That would lead to too much abuse IMHO. When I travel with friends, and I have a benefit that they don't have, I forgo the benefit in favor of spending time with my friends.

Then I am to be penalized for having friends who live there and don't travel with me.

Here's hoping they keep things the way they are now.

bicker
09-08-2007, 09:48 AM
No, not penalized. You'll simply have the choice of taking advantage of the benefits yourself, because you qualify for them, or going along with your friends, and thereby voluntarily restrict yourself to the limitations they are subject to. This is no different from if you are staying at the Beach Club DVC and your friends are staying at Pop Century: You will almost surely be allowed to pool-hop and join them at their pool, while you wouldn't be able to bring them along with you to enjoy Storm-a-Long Bay.

DVCJones
09-08-2007, 10:19 AM
I would like to see the old system remain in place. However, I don't think it would be a bad thing if DVC members were given a few Fastpasses to make their stay a little easier. Maybe 8-10 per person per visit...maybe 2 per person per day...etc. to be used at our convenience. That would only allow 2-3 per park if one were to spread their use out. DVC members would still have to use the current Fastpass system for the most of their vacation. DVC members would feel like they were getting a little something special but not so much that we get into the "I deserve to be the front of the line because I am a DVC member" issue.

Just a thought...a girl can dream!!!:)

IndianaMouseLover
09-08-2007, 11:02 AM
Subscribing!

This is very interesting. I hope they do include DVC in the mix.

Teyedoubleguhrrrr
09-08-2007, 02:44 PM
I was still in diapers when this thread started.:coffee:

I am now 88!

:lmao: :happytv: :rotfl2: :scared1: :upsidedow

BlakeNJ
09-08-2007, 04:55 PM
:rotfl2: How will my TGM fit into this possible change??? YIKES. I shutter to think what will happen with my future trips if DVC is not included and how this will affect us loyal TGM fanatics and the planning we all love.

I'm with you! It would really shake up some of my TGM touring plans! Not sure if this was posted but there was an article in the Orlando Sentinel.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/custom/tourism/orl-fastpass0607sep06,1,1451336.story?coll=orl-business-headlines-tourism

Don't they push the "stay in deluxe accommodations" reference more than once during the DVC sales pitch? I think DVC would be put at the top with the Deluxe hotels but possibly with a few restrictions.

Blakely

OneMoreTry
09-12-2007, 09:15 AM
This would definitely be a greater complaint for me:

If deluxes got a fast pass and DVC didn't. Value of our "ownership" would decrease right there.

I don't think the DVC sales reps would like it either.