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View Full Version : Designing an Equitable Allocation System


crisi
05-16-2005, 12:11 PM
There has been a lot of talk lately about how rooms are assigned and what priority should be given to requests. I think that a lot of people have different values and finding an equitable system we all agree on will be difficult, but here is the task.

Follows is a list criteria a room assigner might use to assign rooms, add your own if you wish and I've forgotten something. Put them in order with the person who gets the room that most closely matches their needs on top.

Person with medical request (i.e. non smoking, medical/ handicapped accessible medical)
Person with non-smoking/smoking request (non-medical)
Person with non-handicapped request (non medical)
Person with view/location request
Person with request that multiple rooms be close to one another
Home resort member booking 11-7 months out
Non home resort member booking 7-3 months out
Home resort member booking 7-3 months out
Any member making last minute bookings
Cash paying guest (CRO)
Guest of member (non-renter)
Renter of points (assuming member has made the reservation and specified “renter” so MS knows they aren’t a guest)
Person wanting to check into a room at arrival time (instead of waiting til four) - i.e. room ready as I understand it was designed to address complaints.

Some of these may be two tiered – for example I may believe after medical needs, home resort owners should get priority no matter when they book over CRO guests. And that from there, room assignments should be smoking/non-handicapped/multiple rooms/view location. But that a view/location request from a member is a higher priority request than a smoking request from CRO. But since medical needs trump all other priorities, a last minute cash booking of “non-smoking medical need” pushes everything down the tree– including a non-medical non-smoking request of a member.

I have some of my own ideas (like medical needs should trump), but a lot of mine are fuzzy and I’m hoping some discussion might spur an evaluation of my own beliefs on an equitable system. For instance, I’m divided on if renters/guests/CRO folks should ever (except for medical reasons) have their requests met before members. And some things I'm situational on - its is REALLY nice to check into a room when you arrive when traveling with a toddler or after driving all night, but I'm not sure if that is more important than someone else's nonsmoking/non-medical request.

rascalmom
05-16-2005, 12:26 PM
Medical needs (including non-smoking) will have to trump if DVC is to be in compliance with the ADA requirements.

crisi
05-16-2005, 12:37 PM
But should Disney be able to say to someone with a medical need "sorry, we just don't have a non-smoking room available" or should they have to bump someone out of their non-smoking room to give it to someone with a medical need?

Tiggeriffic
05-16-2005, 12:48 PM
I don't understand why guests of members should have their requests any
lower than members. I would not want someone that I'm using my points
for to get anything less than what I would get. I would hate for my relatives
or friends to be treated worse than I would be treated.

Personally, I think that it should be medical requests first, and then everything
else based on the date of the reservation. I also believe that some people
request way too much and believe that they have to have the PERFECT room
or their vacation will be ruined.

One thing that everyone has to remember about DVC - meeting requests
is much harder because there is no requirement for you to reserve a week.
Also, DVC has to try to optimize the occupancy for everyone. So, unlike
other timeshares which could actually let you reserve a certain room, DVC
can't do that because they don't know if it will be occupied or not.

crisi
05-16-2005, 01:48 PM
I don't understand why guests of members should have their requests any
lower than members. I would not want someone that I'm using my points
for to get anything less than what I would get. I would hate for my relatives
or friends to be treated worse than I would be treated.


The reason I'm divided on it is that I'm not sure I want YOUR relatives or friends to get treated better than I'M getting treated. By definition, your guest having the requests I want makes one less room available that will fulfill my every whim. After all, I made the investment in points, they just made the investment in having the right friend. DVC is a "membership" program and part of me believes that members should get certain perks not available to guests of members. Want the perks, join the program.

Most of me thinks you are right, though.

Bugeye
05-16-2005, 02:23 PM
Yep - not an easy task!

fishermouse
05-16-2005, 03:03 PM
Whats wrong with just assigning the room when the reservation is made? I make a request for a specific date they check the computer for that date if there is a room ie; non smoking, view of DD available for the dates I want I get it. If I plan 11 months out but can't get an early flight and I have to arrive at 8pm should I be stuck with whatever is leftover? Sounds like this should be a no brainer. Handicaped rooms should be saved for handicapped patrons unless all other rooms are booked. All smoking request should be treated equally or everyone will just say it's medical. Everyone gets the same 11 month or 7 month window and should plan thier vacations accordinly.
Having said all that I've booked three months out already and had no trouble getting a room, I have yet to see a bad room...

ColoradoBelle1
05-16-2005, 03:39 PM
crisi brought up a good point that I hadn't thought of before: why should she not get 'better' treatment vis a vis room assignment (not anything else) than a friend of mine that I let stay using my points. I think she is right on that; i just had never thought of it that way before.

i think that the reason that assigning a specific room as opposed to room category as of the date of ressie , tho ultimately the fairest of them all, couldn't work because the ressie system is designed to 'give out' lets say 30 BW view rooms on Jan 1....but not to figure out that Mr Big is in room 2000 on Dec 31 and also Jan 1 and that specific room won't be available to you on Jan 1 but another BW view room will....in other words, just too complicated as system.

Which brings us to: Disney states that they are moving to room ready.Which means that we all have the opportunity to change our behaviors based on the room ready system. It isn't fair that Mr. Big has to fly in from England and thus gets the last room in the house. So Mr. Big would have to change his planning in order to get himself a 'fair deal' under this new system. Perhaps he needs to fly in the day before his ressie and stay up at Universal that night. It's his choice. Then he can arrive early the next morn to best be accommmodated with room ready.

My issue with Disney is that altho Disney spokespeople say room ready, there are a preponderance of CMs who tell you that you were preassigned a room and it is the ONLY ONE IN THE HOUSE. (Man, do I hate being lied to.) I think I could live within any fair system as long as it didn't change on whim.

Of course medical needs need to come first. Of course if re smoking, people wouldn't smoke in nonsmoking rooms (and Disney wouldn't change rooms from smoking to non or vv by simply spraying a room with deodorizer and calling it non)...........then nonsmoking medical would take priority. Truth is, there would always be a nonsmoking room available if the ressie system were structured so that those 30BW view rooms were already designated as 27 non and 3 smoking, and when the 27 non were reserved...no one got a nonsmoking ressie. Pretty simple and I'm not sure wy it isn't in place, tho I kinda think it is..just nobody talks about it.

It would have helped had the handicap studio rooms shower only all been given great views...then those of us who need a tub would take tub over view and those who dind't need a tub would get a non-used HA room with a great view.

Views should always be requests. I think that in the case of BWV, if Dis were completely upfront...BW is easy, Standard is harder cause there are random standards other than that one wing overlooking the entrance. PW is quiet pool, luna poo, croquet courtyard and maybe the BW courtyard but Im' not sure on that. I think we hsould be able to ask within each category for 1 thing: so LUNA pool....high floor or quiet pool: near elevator

Interestingly, none of my requests were initially met under the 'preassigned'. I was on a high floor near an elevator but those weren't in my specs!!!
The assigner was confused by my request because I asked for the standard view rooms in the croquet 'courtyard'....and she didn't have that listed anywheree so she just guessed.

:The reason that pre assigning doesn't work is that the people in MS live in Kansas and haven't been on property (many of them...I exaggerate). But they try their best. Then the pre assigner in house tries...but since she doens't speak with you, she really has to guess. And that's where it breaks down. Plus, I don't want my memberfees going to pay for all the headaches a pre assignor has....let her(him) do the HA medical rooms and big groups ...but give the front desk CMs the power to speak with a guest and give the guest options and let them ultimately choose.

Room ready can work and we all can change our patterns to let it work best for us. I'm from Colorado so could never get to DVC before 5pm...so I just fly in a day early, Saturday and that serves two purposes: I don't use lots of points for weekends and I spend a 'short' day off siet on the cheap and getting sleep so I can hit the parks early the next day. I changed my behaviors to live within the system.

If we could go to first resserved first served...the problme might still be that the preassigner doesn't understnad what it is we want. We'd have to have some definitive 'requests' in place with that system...and yes, it could work and yes, IMHO that would be ultimately the fairest. But right now we are supposedly dealing with room ready...I'd love it if we could get that in writing so that when a CM says to me, as she did on May 9: oh here at BWV we pre assign and there is only one room for you take it or leave it. For those who might say that since I said no, that I robbed someone else of THEIR request: I actually think that there was a someone else who HAD requested a high floor near the elevator. (especially since the CM tried to have a MARVIN check into the room with me...I think MARVIN had the same last name as I, and MARVIN wanted that highfloor near elevator. (Of course I checked him out and no, it wasn't J. Depp so I declined to share my balcony :rotfl2: )

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 04:00 PM
Whats wrong with just assigning the room when the reservation is made? I make a request for a specific date they check the computer for that date if there is a room ie; non smoking, view of DD available for the dates I want I get it. If I plan 11 months out but can't get an early flight and I have to arrive at 8pm should I be stuck with whatever is leftover? Sounds like this should be a no brainer. Handicaped rooms should be saved for handicapped patrons unless all other rooms are booked. All smoking request should be treated equally or everyone will just say it's medical. Everyone gets the same 11 month or 7 month window and should plan thier vacations accordinly.
Having said all that I've booked three months out already and had no trouble getting a room, I have yet to see a bad room...

I agree with this theory. plain and simple. if its available when you book, you get it, thats it. If its not try another resort or another date or drop some of your requests. It adds more benefits to home resort since you can grab that NS room 11 months out. Hey if you want to stay at a non-hoime resort you may just not get your first choices and you shouldt anyway its not your home resort

Medical should obvioulsy take first priority, but I dont even think its a problem as far as HA rooms go. Not many people are going to be requesting to guarentee a HA room unless they need it.

bicker
05-16-2005, 04:09 PM
President Reagan was fond of saying, "Trust, but verify." In the absence of stringent requirements for proving medical need, special priority for medical need is very dangerous. Don't folks remember how giving folks with professed medical need front-of-line-access resulted in lots and lots of abuse, just a few years ago? The only thing that resolved that was mainstreaming folks with medical need into the regular queues.

Room assignment when making the reservation results in a lot of problems. The job of a room assigner is to assign rooms so that there are no gaps. Unless you have a lot of folks making one-night reservations, assigning rooms when making the reservation will reduce the capacity of the resort, which is something that isn't even permitted with DVC.

crisi
05-16-2005, 04:20 PM
Whats wrong with just assigning the room when the reservation is made? I make a request for a specific date they check the computer for that date if there is a room ie; non smoking, view of DD available for the dates I want I get it. If I plan 11 months out but can't get an early flight and I have to arrive at 8pm should I be stuck with whatever is leftover? Sounds like this should be a no brainer. Handicaped rooms should be saved for handicapped patrons unless all other rooms are booked. All smoking request should be treated equally or everyone will just say it's medical. Everyone gets the same 11 month or 7 month window and should plan thier vacations accordinly.
Having said all that I've booked three months out already and had no trouble getting a room, I have yet to see a bad room...

Pretty much because people book three months out and don't all arrive on Saturday and check out on Saturday. i.e. you want a non-smoking room, booking on short notice. But the resort is pretty darn full when you book. They can put you in a smoking room the day you check in and for a few more days, but during your trip is booked for a smoker, but a non-smoking room opens up, so you move.

You see this currently with last minute bookings at resorts - i.e. "we were able to get 2 nights at BCVs, then three nights at OKW, then we needed to move for the last two nights over to SSR. They didn't have a week open anywhere." It doesn't happen a lot (usually you can string together a full week somewhere) but it does happen.

Few people like moving mid trip, and its costly as the rooms require a full cleaning.

sjdisneywedding: What happens when the HA room is the only non-smoking room left in the resort? Does it get booked by someone non-handicapped (and the handicapped person is told "snooze you lose" when they try and book). Or is it put into some sort of "likely" status for the first booker ("I have you booked in a non-smoking room, but its HA. If someone requires that room, I will have to move you to a smoking-optional room").

SleepyatDVC
05-16-2005, 04:34 PM
:faint:

I just skimmed the points and I am getting a headache.

I did have one thought about room assignments made at reservation - not really feasible or even a good allocation of DVC CM resources, IMO. With all reservation changes made in 11 moinths, all the last minute changes, especially around the 31 day period, and even with the last minute wait-list, cancellations, etc., it doesn't make sense to me. Just ONE reservation can mess up previously scheduled room assignments. I think more people would be upset at having to move every night because that's where the non-previously booked rooms are then not getting any of their requests.

Can you imagine, "Sir, good news, 100% of your requests were met on nights 2, 4, and 6!!!!" :earseek:

Well, I'll seriously worry about room assignments and room requests when I get an absolutely horrible room. Until then, I'll keep an ear out but won't worry about it too much cause it hasn't personally affected me yet.

magicmama
05-16-2005, 06:08 PM
Medical requests should always be honored first. And now I get a little confused about what would be best after that. I'm just happy to have a non-smoking room!
I haven't been to an annual meeting yet. Is this something to bring up at the meeting? This sounds like something that should be talked about at the annual DVC member meetings.
How many of you go to the annual meetings?

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 06:57 PM
Room assignment when making the reservation results in a lot of problems. The job of a room assigner is to assign rooms so that there are no gaps. Unless you have a lot of folks making one-night reservations, assigning rooms when making the reservation will reduce the capacity of the resort, which is something that isn't even permitted with DVC.


I dont know what century you guys are living in but there wouldnt be a "room assigner" its all in a software program.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 07:03 PM
sjdisneywedding: What happens when the HA room is the only non-smoking room left in the resort? Does it get booked by someone non-handicapped (and the handicapped person is told "snooze you lose" when they try and book). Or is it put into some sort of "likely" status for the first booker ("I have you booked in a non-smoking room, but its HA. If someone requires that room, I will have to move you to a smoking-optional room").

crisi, thats a great point. honestly I dont know. i guess maybe your scenario would be the result. Not perfect but still think this option is better. At least the person booking knows up front what the deal is. They wont get there thinking they have a shot at a NS, NHA, room only to find they have a smoking room. Neither system is perfect, theres no denying that, but this way here people have choices. Theres no choices once you pay hundreds of dollars to fly down and arrive to find your requests arent met. what are you going to do then, fly home?

This way at the very least you save your money replan your trip and have a nice happy disney time

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 07:08 PM
:faint:

I just skimmed the points and I am getting a headache.

I did have one thought about room assignments made at reservation - not really feasible or even a good allocation of DVC CM resources, IMO. With all reservation changes made in 11 moinths, all the last minute changes, especially around the 31 day period, and even with the last minute wait-list, cancellations, etc., it doesn't make sense to me. Just ONE reservation can mess up previously scheduled room assignments. I think more people would be upset at having to move every night because that's where the non-previously booked rooms are then not getting any of their requests.

Can you imagine, "Sir, good news, 100% of your requests were met on nights 2, 4, and 6!!!!" :earseek:

Well, I'll seriously worry about room assignments and room requests when I get an absolutely horrible room. Until then, I'll keep an ear out but won't worry about it too much cause it hasn't personally affected me yet.


the changing around of reservations really makes no difference at all. Its all computerized, if someone cancels a room that was NS it simply goes back into inventory. No different than booking a PV at BWV and changing it to SV later or vice versa.

bicker
05-16-2005, 07:11 PM
I dont know what century you guys are living in but there wouldnt be a "room assigner" its all in a software program.Not yet. Maybe someday, but there is still a human being involved.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 07:16 PM
the biggest thing I see is everyone seems to think this is some major technological invention. In reality half the world(ok maybe not exactly half)already uses this booking procedure. Its has its complications, problem areas, advantages and disadvantages, but please stop saying its too hard to accomplish because thats just not true.

yes theres a lot of turn around, a high occupancy level, and odd check in check out times, but other high occupany hotels do it, other timeshares do it, inclusive resorts do it, heck even DVC does it at BWV with views. So give me a break with the its too difficult arguement.

bicker
05-16-2005, 07:24 PM
Only cruise ships and boutique hotels allow folks to book specific rooms.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 07:41 PM
Only cruise ships and boutique hotels allow folks to book specific rooms.


:rotfl2: Sorry but this is completely 100% FALSE! I travel for a living, sometimes as many as a couple hundred nights a year and almost EVERY hotel I have ever stayed has a guarenteed NS request.

Guess you never stayed at BWV and chose between a SV or PV room

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 07:44 PM
Not yet. Maybe someday, but there is still a human being involved.


yeah a human being uses the software program. Thats the extent of their involvement in assigning rooms.

crisi
05-16-2005, 08:20 PM
bicker wasn't saying no one guarentees NS, he was saying only a few places guarentee a specific room. In general, they have rather inflexible booking policies - i.e. a cruise ship departs Saturday, arrives back in port the next Saturday, they aren't turning over rooms each day of the week. The same with some other timeshares - if you are required to book a week, defined as Saturday to Saturday, that makes it much easier to book a specific room. The problem with specific rooms (or room guarentees so specific that you might as well be booking a specific room - how many dedicated two bedrooms with two queens non smoking non handicapped high floor Epcot view rooms are there?) is that the possibility of leaving holes happens - i.e. I check out of that room with my guarentee on Tuesday, but you won't check into that room with your guarentee until Saturday. And DVC isn't designed for holes, its designed to operate at or near capacity.

So the next question on this software program. I book a room, and I'm a little late at making my reservations. My request is non-smoking, but I'm late enough that I don't get it. I book smoking. A month later someone cancels their non-smoking reservation for my dates. Is the room reallocated to me automatically? Or does the person lucky enough to call MS that day get the room? How about if it isn't all the days, but I'll only have to move once? What about one day in the middle? Should MS call me before moving me? Is their a waitlist?

(In my experience, a non-smoking guarentee at a hotel isn't worth a lot. If you check in late and the hotel is at capacity you are lucky if they have your guarenteed room, much less with your smoking preference, I've been "moved" to a different hotel because they don't have room for me. I've been stiffed on guarenteed rental cars (sorry, we just rented our last one, yes, I know that's a confirmation you are holding), too. They do always gladly refund my deposit. Hotels, if they have the opportunity, overbook figuring some people won't show)

skelooch
05-16-2005, 08:22 PM
I agree somewhat with the medical needs coming first, as long as views aren't included with the medical needs. I can also foresee I lot more members claiming medical needs. If you request a NS or HA you should get it regardless of where it is, just don't ask for it to have an EPCOT or pool view also.

I always request specific rooms by number and generally use at least 10 or 12, when I arrive I ask if any of them are on the room ready list if one is that's great. If not I ask if any of them will be coming available that day, if one is I tell them I'll take it. They aren't allowed to tell me which one of my rooms it is but I'm happy and I wait for the room to be ready, which in a few cases as been well after 4pm. It seems to work pretty well for me. I'm also a smoker but I don't let that restrict the rooms I request because I would never smoke in the room anyway even if it was a smoking room. I wouldn't care if they made all the rooms NS, probably not a bad idea. That would solve soom of the problems.

I too don't think there is an easy solution, preassignment doesn't work and giving preference to the earliest reseravation is just to difficult to control with members staying all different of numbers of days. It would work fine if everyone arrived on the same day and stayed the same number of days. It would mean that they would possibly have to leave rooms empty for a night or two to make sure it was available for the person it was assigned to.

There is no one solution that will work for everyone, in the meantime I'm going to keep using my system, it's worked pretty well so far. I'll be home again in 12 days and let you know how I make out this time.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 08:40 PM
bicker wasn't saying no one guarentees NS, he was saying only a few places guarentee a specific room. In general, they have rather inflexible booking policies - i.e. a cruise ship departs Saturday, arrives back in port the next Saturday, they aren't turning over rooms each day of the week. The same with some other timeshares - if you are required to book a week, defined as Saturday to Saturday, that makes it much easier to book a specific room. The problem with specific rooms (or room guarentees so specific that you might as well be booking a specific room - how many dedicated two bedrooms with two queens non smoking non handicapped high floor Epcot view rooms are there?) is that the possibility of leaving holes happens - i.e. I check out of that room with my guarentee on Tuesday, but you won't check into that room with your guarentee until Saturday. And DVC isn't designed for holes, its designed to operate at or near capacity.

So the next question on this software program. I book a room, and I'm a little late at making my reservations. My request is non-smoking, but I'm late enough that I don't get it. I book smoking. A month later someone cancels their non-smoking reservation for my dates. Is the room reallocated to me automatically? Or does the person lucky enough to call MS that day get the room? How about if it isn't all the days, but I'll only have to move once? What about one day in the middle? Should MS call me before moving me? Is their a waitlist?

(In my experience, a non-smoking guarentee at a hotel isn't worth a lot. If you check in late and the hotel is at capacity you are lucky if they have your guarenteed room, much less with your smoking preference, I've been "moved" to a different hotel because they don't have room for me. I've been stiffed on guarenteed rental cars (sorry, we just rented our last one, yes, I know that's a confirmation you are holding), too. They do always gladly refund my deposit. Hotels, if they have the opportunity, overbook figuring some people won't show)


crisi, you keep going back to changing rooms in the middle of stays arguement. My arguement back is its up to the individual, if they want to change becuase the request is that imortant to them then they can if it isnt they dont accept those reservations. very simple.

As far as your question about rooms becoming available after previous cancellations, i would answer: what happens now when you call and the room you want is not available? You make another reservation! and/or you get put on a waiting list. its not rocket science its all generated by computer software programs.

The high occupancy doesnt really doesnt pose that much of a problem. people will fill the rooms, most of the people here say these requests dont matter one way or another to them. so either they are telling the truth and will be able to be flexible and fit into the open rooms or they are lying.

we arent changing the number of rooms or the number of dvc members. the rooms will still be occupied at the same high level. Its just that people wont be misled as to what type of room they are getting.

Based on past polls and posts, mostly everyone gets what they request anyway as far as NS and HA. So wheres the problem is letting people know ahead of time, so for those that really do care, they can have options.

Disney Fanatic
05-16-2005, 08:48 PM
I have to jump in on this one.

I mentioned in another thread that I went to the Fairfield presentation at the Daytona Ocean Walk Resort and one BIG PLUS which they were pushing was the fact you could book your exact room 11 months out. They give you a detailed map of the resort and encourage you to book early the room # you want....Guaranteed!!!

Now their program is all points based as well as week based so they have the same booking issues as Disney, but they seem to be able to do it.

I really think Disney should be able to some how be able to build a program that can do just this.

As a person who just rented points and stayed at OKW, I definately DO NOT think I should have any type of priority over the DVC owner themselves. I don't even think I should have equal status. DVC owners are the ones who paid BIG bucks to be part of DVC and should definately take priority over me just renting their points for any type of room requests. I know if I was an owner and received a less desireable room than someone buying points, I would not be a happy camper!!

Just my 2 cents....

Dean
05-16-2005, 08:54 PM
Medical needs (including non-smoking) will have to trump if DVC is to be in compliance with the ADA requirements.
First, all medical issues do not come under the ADA. Then there's the idea that MOST timeshares are treated like Condo's and thus exempt from most of the ADA requirements. I know a number of the Marriott's have wording in their documents that even service animals must be registered, pre-approved and insured as an example.

I realize that there are many perspectives but here's mine. The order of preference should be


Owner at THAT resort
Other DVC owners
Cash renters (from CRO)
Exchangers.
Within that list, only generic requests should be accepted. Since HC rooms are booked directly, they would be bypassed having already been taken out of the pool. DVC should accept only general view or areas and smoking/non plus grouping multiple rooms under a single group. In no circumstances should an owner at THAT resort take a back seat to anyone else no matter when they booked. Time of booking should only be a tie breaker based on the other issues. This is the only fair way to do it. IMO of course.

As for guaranteeing smoking vs NS, even the hotels that say they do, leave themselves an out if something happens.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 08:55 PM
bicker wasn't saying no one guarentees NS, he was saying only a few places guarentee a specific room. In general, they have rather inflexible booking policies - i.e. a cruise ship departs Saturday, arrives back in port the next Saturday, they aren't turning over rooms each day of the week. The same with some other timeshares - if you are required to book a week, defined as Saturday to Saturday, that makes it much easier to book a specific room. The problem with specific rooms (or room guarentees so specific that you might as well be booking a specific room - how many dedicated two bedrooms with two queens non smoking non handicapped high floor Epcot view rooms are there?) is that the possibility of leaving holes happens - i.e. I check out of that room with my guarentee on Tuesday, but you won't check into that room with your guarentee until Saturday. And DVC isn't designed for holes, its designed to operate at or near capacity.


bicker may not be talking about NS specifically but thats what I am reffering to along with HA. Again we really have to separate this floor and room # and proximity to elavators and stuff of that nature, even I will admit thats going way to far overboard. I mean those arent really deal breakers. Thats just being picky and wanting it all. Those are more like things when you ask for when you check in if you can happen to lucky enough. NS and HA are 2 totally different issues. these 2 issues can make or break a families vacation for whatever reason. I know alot of people who would rather not go on vacation at all if they have to stay in a smoking room and I think its their RIGHT to know this info BEFORE they travel all the way to WDW.

also as far as the hotels guarentee on NS rooms goes, in my experience, I have stayed probably 1000 nights over the last 5 years and I only had 1 smoking room that was booked as a Ns and I was comped a night for the mix up. Ill take that 1000-1 ratio over my current 3 rooms -3 mix ups at DVC any day.

crisi
05-16-2005, 08:55 PM
I'm trying to figure out the logistics here. Perhaps I am dense, and there will be no "holes." But I can't figure out how that happens. When I book a room on short notice for seven nights and there is only one room available each of those seven nights in the resort, and two nights its non-smoking, then three nights its smoking, then two nights its non-smoking, I'm not sure how I avoid moving. Unless I choose not to book, in which case, in order for rooms to be occupied at the same rate, someone else has to be willing to move, or be taking short vacations that happen to slot correctly. I think more people will be upset at moving than upset at not having their requests met. And I suspect that a lot of people will "refuse to move" causing even bigger scenes at the front desk. The CM I talked to last trip said this is a problem with the BW View - that every week they have to toss someone out of the room who was able to book it for one or two nights, and then is supposed to move, but doesn't want to.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 09:01 PM
I have to jump in on this one.

I mentioned in another thread that I went to the Fairfield presentation at the Daytona Ocean Walk Resort and one BIG PLUS which they were pushing was the fact you could book your exact room 11 months out. They give you a detailed map of the resort and encourage you to book early the room # you want....Guaranteed!!!

Now their program is all points based as well as week based so they have the same booking issues as Disney, but they seem to be able to do it.

I really think Disney should be able to some how be able to build a program that can do just this.

As a person who just rented points and stayed at OKW, I definately DO NOT think I should have any type of priority over the DVC owner themselves. I don't even think I should have equal status. DVC owners are the ones who paid BIG bucks to be part of DVC and should definately take priority over me just renting their points for any type of room requests. I know if I was an owner and received a less desireable room than someone buying points, I would not be a happy camper!!

Just my 2 cents....


well there you go!!! :cool1:

can we at the very least get off the arguement that it is not done anywhere else and the it cant be done arguement

skelooch
05-16-2005, 09:09 PM
Disney Fanatic,

Let's say I book room 422 at the 11month window and I'm arriving on a sunday, let's say the people in the room prior to me are checking out on friday unless they have a reservation for only friday and saturday nights that room is going to sit empty for two nights if they guarranteed me the room, I don't think they're going to let that happen.
Another example, again I book day by day for room 422 again ariving sunday,staying for 4 nights, someone calls the next day and wants room 422 but is arriving saturday but is staying for 7 days, who get the room?

I have a bad feeling that they'll bump me for the 7 night stay, but I sure hope I'm wrong.

TCPluto
05-16-2005, 09:42 PM
Its just that people wont be misled as to what type of room they are getting.



No one is being misled. Everyone should know that these requests are just that, and not guaranteed.

Some of the newer members of DVC seem to have a hard time understanding this and, therefore, may have made an unwise purchase.

Deb & Bill
05-16-2005, 09:43 PM
First, all medical issues do not come under the ADA. Then there's the idea that MOST timeshares are treated like Condo's and thus exempt from most of the ADA requirements. I know a number of the Marriott's have wording in their documents that even service animals must be registered, pre-approved and insured as an example.

I realize that there are many perspectives but here's mine. The order of preference should be


Owner at THAT resort
Other DVC owners
Cash renters (from CRO)
Exchangers.
Within that list, only generic requests should be accepted. Since HC rooms are booked directly, they would be bypassed having already been taken out of the pool. DVC should accept only general view or areas and smoking/non plus grouping multiple rooms under a single group. In no circumstances should an owner at THAT resort take a back seat to anyone else no matter when they booked. Time of booking should only be a tie breaker based on the other issues. This is the only fair way to do it. IMO of course.

As for guaranteeing smoking vs NS, even the hotels that say they do, leave themselves an out if something happens.

If smoking was prohibited in DVC resorts, and smoking areas provided, then that would eliminate a lot of the problems - except for the smokers who like to smoke in their room.

One problem with your list would be an owner at a certain resort who used points from two resorts to get their reservation. We have points at three resorts and often combine them after 7 months to get the number of days we need.

tjkraz
05-16-2005, 09:43 PM
Only cruise ships and boutique hotels allow folks to book specific rooms.

:rotfl2: Sorry but this is completely 100% FALSE! I travel for a living, sometimes as many as a couple hundred nights a year and almost EVERY hotel I have ever stayed has a guarenteed NS request.


Do-tell. I'd love to hear that list of hotels that allows guests to book a specific room. :rolleyes1

Dean
05-16-2005, 09:50 PM
If smoking was prohibited in DVC resorts, and smoking areas provided, then that would eliminate a lot of the problems - except for the smokers who like to smoke in their room.

One problem with your list would be an owner at a certain resort who used points from two resorts to get their reservation. We have points at three resorts and often combine them after 7 months to get the number of days we need.
Personally I'd be happy to eliminate smoking and enforce it with gusto. In the scenario you mentioned, one would be treated as a non home resort owner or have two separate reservations.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 09:52 PM
I'm trying to figure out the logistics here. Perhaps I am dense, and there will be no "holes." But I can't figure out how that happens. When I book a room on short notice for seven nights and there is only one room available each of those seven nights in the resort, and two nights its non-smoking, then three nights its smoking, then two nights its non-smoking, I'm not sure how I avoid moving. Unless I choose not to book, in which case, in order for rooms to be occupied at the same rate, someone else has to be willing to move, or be taking short vacations that happen to slot correctly. I think more people will be upset at moving than upset at not having their requests met. And I suspect that a lot of people will "refuse to move" causing even bigger scenes at the front desk. The CM I talked to last trip said this is a problem with the BW View - that every week they have to toss someone out of the room who was able to book it for one or two nights, and then is supposed to move, but doesn't want to.


no your not dense, your correct in that if you wanted 7 nights and in that scenario, then you would either have to move or remove your request. or try another date or try another resort. Its give you the options. I think its better than getting all the way down there to find out you have a smoking room for a week.


you are also correct in the occupancy theory where shorter stays would be necessary to completely fill all rooms but I dont think its that big a problem. Theres tons and tons of varying vacations being booked all the time. some short, some long, some medium length. The same way you get those crazy breaks in your example where only 1 NS room is available for 2 days, then smoking for 3 etc is the same way they get filled as well-by people taking all sorts of various lenghts vacations.

I mean we really are not talking about slicing up all kinds of blocks of rooms in tiny tiny blocks that arent easily managable. At least i am not, I'm only talking about NS and HA. The majority of rooms are NS and NHA anyway so reaqlly there should not be that big of a difference anyway.

If we start to add in floor #, building #, proximity to elevator etc then you start to have major problems.

SoCalKDG
05-16-2005, 09:56 PM
well there you go!!! :cool1:

can we at the very least get off the arguement that it is not done anywhere else and the it cant be done arguementIt can be done, but room vacancies will increase. The real question is what pct. increase will there be in room vacancies? Is DVC/Disney willing to accept rooms not being filled on certain days?

I would think that they could take 1/2 of the rooms and make them reservation ready, then use the balance as run of the house, thus helping to elimanate some of the bubbles that may occur, while at the same time rewarding the early 11 month bookers.

tjkraz
05-16-2005, 09:57 PM
(In my experience, a non-smoking guarentee at a hotel isn't worth a lot. If you check in late and the hotel is at capacity you are lucky if they have your guarenteed room, much less with your smoking preference, I've been "moved" to a different hotel because they don't have room for me. I've been stiffed on guarenteed rental cars (sorry, we just rented our last one, yes, I know that's a confirmation you are holding), too. They do always gladly refund my deposit. Hotels, if they have the opportunity, overbook figuring some people won't show)

Well I am glad someone finally said it!!!

The "non-smoking guarantee" at most hotels is a farce. Commercial hotels don't have the occupancy levels of timeshares. They'll take any and all reservations, claim things are guaranteed, and 99% of the time have occupancy levels with more than enough buffer to accommodate every guest.

Many hotels with higher occupancy rates will monitor reservations and "convert" rooms to non-smoking on a daily basis as necessary. They claim to use high-tech air filtering machines to clean smoking rooms and move them to the NS inventory. Sorry, but I'm just not too keen on that prospect.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 10:01 PM
Do-tell. I'd love to hear that list of hotels that allows guests to book a specific room. :rolleyes1

its already been pointed out that I was referring to NS requests not SPECIFIC rooms.

but of course, as usual, jump right into an arguement instead of actually giving some type of useful information.

please, by all means keep at it, its really helpful in discussing potential changes
:rolleyes1

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 10:03 PM
Well I am glad someone finally said it!!!

The "non-smoking guarantee" at most hotels is a farce. Commercial hotels don't have the occupancy levels of timeshares. They'll take any and all reservations, claim things are guaranteed, and 99% of the time have occupancy levels with more than enough buffer to accommodate every guest.

Many hotels with higher occupancy rates will monitor reservations and "convert" rooms to non-smoking on a daily basis as necessary. They claim to use high-tech air filtering machines to clean smoking rooms and move them to the NS inventory. Sorry, but I'm just not too keen on that prospect.


like I said in the last 5 years I have stayed in over 100o nights in hotels and have had exactly 1 smoking room that was booked as a NS

OneMoreTry
05-16-2005, 10:06 PM
This is one of the better threads on requests. IMnotsohumbleO.

I agree that getting basic requests should be do-able. Some of the problems seem to be:

The people that care the most don't always get there early in the day. It would be great if all those showing up after 6 had no requests listed.

The rude guests that unexpectedly smoke in a NS making it unsuitable for the medical request NS asthmatic. What can be done if the resort is at capacity and the guest arrives at 11pm??

Agreement on priority order of requests. I think this is where software would have to come in. Guest of member vs member (How would they know this at time of booking?). Early booking nonmedical versus late booking medical. Should a late-booking medical bump an early booking non medical??



BTW: Vistana in Orlando has NO nonsmoking villas. They are all smoking opotional.

tjkraz
05-16-2005, 10:08 PM
like I said in the last 5 years I have stayed in over 100o nights in hotels and have had exactly 1 smoking room that was booked as a NS

seems like a farce to me :rotfl2:

And how many of those resorts were at 100% occupancy during your visit?

Dean
05-16-2005, 10:09 PM
BTW: Vistana in Orlando has NO nonsmoking villas. They are all smoking opotional.Some Marriott's and all Worldmark are either all NS or heading that way.

Disney Fanatic
05-16-2005, 10:10 PM
Skelooch

Disney Fanatic,

Let's say I book room 422 at the 11month window and I'm arriving on a sunday, let's say the people in the room prior to me are checking out on friday unless they have a reservation for only friday and saturday nights that room is going to sit empty for two nights if they guarranteed me the room, I don't think they're going to let that happen.
Another example, again I book day by day for room 422 again ariving sunday,staying for 4 nights, someone calls the next day and wants room 422 but is arriving saturday but is staying for 7 days, who get the room?

I have a bad feeling that they'll bump me for the 7 night stay, but I sure hope I'm wrong.


I am no expert on reservation departments and procedures but I would think that Disney would continue to do what they are doing now. They would sell the peak nights (Fri & Sat) for cash and maximize their revenue on that room.
You would check in on Sunday and everyone would be happy.

I have to believe that the entire program for DVC was designed for this exact example. The point levels are so incredibly high for the weekend nights that they are banking on DVC'ers taking the less desireable week day nights and maximizing their return on the cash bookings (higher value) for the weekends.

In your 2nd example, it would make sense that the person who booked first gets the room! I am sure there are 10 people waiting to make a booking that will book the remaining nights. What doesn't work for one person will work for the next.

The idea is to book early, as you are guaranteed the room you want and everyone else will have to make arrangements around availability.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 10:12 PM
It can be done, but room vacancies will increase. The real question is what pct. increase will there be in room vacancies? Is DVC/Disney willing to accept rooms not being filled on certain days?

I would think that they could take 1/2 of the rooms and make them reservation ready, then use the balance as run of the house, thus helping to elimanate some of the bubbles that may occur, while at the same time rewarding the early 11 month bookers.

agreed

also another problem coming into the fold is that many people are talking about staying off site the day before check in to try to get first shot at their requests the next morning.

potentially dvc could be loosing occupancy here. if someone is taking a week vacation and blowing the first night off site then theres 1 room open that might not normally be. plus possibly park ticket sales, food sales, entertainment sales. not a real huge major deal but it could add up.

TCPluto
05-16-2005, 10:15 PM
Every DVC owner had the opportunity to go over the request policy prior to buying into the program. It was explained very clearly what that meant, and we made the decision to buy knowing full well what to expect. While we've not always gotten our exact request, we have never been disappointed.

Disney is in the business of making people happy. I'm sure they have researched the possibilities of various methods to assign rooms to make as many guests as happy as possible. They make money off happy guests, and occupied rooms. Happy guests return, and re-occupy those rooms. I'm quite sure the occupancy rates at DVC resorts is very much higher than other hotels. No one in DVC management (I hope) would advocate a program that leaves the possibility for a lower occupancy rate.

pirateparrot
05-16-2005, 10:15 PM
no your not dense, your correct in that if you wanted 7 nights and in that scenario, then you would either have to move or remove your request. or try another date or try another resort. Its give you the options. I think its better than getting all the way down there to find out you have a smoking room for a week.


you are also correct in the occupancy theory where shorter stays would be necessary to completely fill all rooms but I dont think its that big a problem. Theres tons and tons of varying vacations being booked all the time. some short, some long, some medium length. The same way you get those crazy breaks in your example where only 1 NS room is available for 2 days, then smoking for 3 etc is the same way they get filled as well-by people taking all sorts of various lenghts vacations.


This would drive up the cost of dues because there would be more need for full cleanings between guests.

I really don't have a dog in this fight because I don't smoke but am around smokers all the time. I don't generally use tubs so I would be pretty flexible but at check-in I look for the best room available that being close to where I want to be and then the view. I would not let any room assignment ruin my vacation.

skelooch
05-16-2005, 10:16 PM
If it's that easy to do and you can keep 100% of your guests happy 100% of the time don't you think Disney would be doing it. Or do you just think Disney likes making their guests miserable.
I vote for sjdisneywedding, SoCalKDG, and Disney Fanatic to head up the room assignment program for Disney.

tjkraz
05-16-2005, 10:19 PM
I am no expert on reservation departments and procedures but I would think that Disney would continue to do what they are doing now. They would sell the peak nights (Fri & Sat) for cash and maximize their revenue on that room.
You would check in on Sunday and everyone would be happy.

I have to believe that the entire program for DVC was designed for this exact example. The point levels are so incredibly high for the weekend nights that they are banking on DVC'ers taking the less desireable week day nights and maximizing their return on the cash bookings (higher value) for the weekends.


Interesting thoughts, but I think you're a little off-base in your reasoning. The only time that Disney profits on a cash reservation is when a member has used his/her points to trade-out of the 7 DVC resorts. Disney converts those points to cash rooms which are rented to the general public, and pockets the proceeds.

Any other time, proceeds from cash bookings are returned to members. It's listed in the annual budget as "breakage" income.

The primary reason for the higher point weekends is to balance demand. If the point schedule was flat, weekends would be booked solid rather quickly by members within driving distance of WDW who want to stay over a long weekend. Many seem to think that the weekends currently do cost too much in comparison to the weekdays, but that's a debate for another thread. ;)

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 10:19 PM
And how many of those resorts were at 100% occupancy during your visit?


wouldnt know off hand, of course no where near the year round ocupancy of dvc but still it is done.

just because the occupancy level is higher doenst mean it cant work. its difficult, theres potential problems and there possible answers.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 10:20 PM
This would drive up the cost of dues because there would be more need for full cleanings between guests.

I really don't have a dog in this fight because I don't smoke but am around smokers all the time. I don't generally use tubs so I would be pretty flexible but at check-in I look for the best room available that being close to where I want to be and then the view. I would not let any room assignment ruin my vacation.


hugh? it happens now. do you think every room is booked for a full week? not even close.

TCPluto
05-16-2005, 10:22 PM
please, by all means keep at it, its really helpful in discussing potential changes
:rolleyes1

Why is it that the newset members are always trying to change the system that we have all lived happily within for the past 6-14 years?

We knew/know the rules, and choose to live by them. These folks (newest members and those not yet members) knew the rules when they bought, but suddenly they want them changed.

Maybe they should seek employmewnt with DVC so they can show them how antiquated they are.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 10:23 PM
Every DVC owner had the opportunity to go over the request policy prior to buying into the program. It was explained very clearly what that meant, and we made the decision to buy knowing full well what to expect. While we've not always gotten our exact request, we have never been disappointed.

Disney is in the business of making people happy. I'm sure they have researched the possibilities of various methods to assign rooms to make as many guests as happy as possible. They make money off happy guests, and occupied rooms. Happy guests return, and re-occupy those rooms. I'm quite sure the occupancy rates at DVC resorts is very much higher than other hotels. No one in DVC management (I hope) would advocate a program that leaves the possibility for a lower occupancy rate.


sorry I dont buy the arguement thats just becuase it is, it is the best way.

thats fine if you think that way

Disney Fanatic
05-16-2005, 10:28 PM
If it's that easy to do and you can keep 100% of your guests happy 100% of the time don't you think Disney would be doing it. Or do you just think Disney likes making their guests miserable.
I vote for sjdisneywedding, SoCalKDG, and Disney Fanatic to head up the room assignment program for Disney.

Get me a green card and I am there!!!! :cool1:

Like I said, I am no expert at this but I really don't think Disney is out to make their guests miserable. I also don't think there is any perfect system. I just think that when I hear of DVC owners getting less than desireable rooms when they booked 11 months out, there has got to be another way.

I believe Disney is trying to do a balancing act by maximizing room revenues and also trying to fulfill room requests.

I just thought that it was a real selling feature when the salesman at Fairfield said that if we liked our Ocean front unit this trip, we could request that exact unit every trip by booking early. He did say it was not guaranteed either but it would be nice to know it was a possibility!!!

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 10:33 PM
Why is it that the newset members are always trying to change the system that we have all lived happily within for the past 6-14 years?

We knew/know the rules, and choose to live by them. These folks (newest members and those not yet members) knew the rules when they bought, but suddenly they want them changed.

Maybe they should seek employmewnt with DVC so they can show them how antiquated they are.


typical repsonse from you, its fine you want to argue Ill give it back, you arent going to scare me away like you do others.

1) It has nothing to do with when someone became a member, if you read anything you would see the original arguement was started by someone who has been around quite a long time

2) can you please tell me the what the current rules that you lived by for the last 6+ years are? I would bet you could not and I would bet this because half of the arguement has been NO BODY KNOWS THE RULES as far as granting requests goes.

but hey who am I compared to the almighty great elder statesmen dvc authorities

hey thats just my 1 cent worth, Id give my 2 cents but of course I havent been a member anywhere near long enough

rascalmom
05-16-2005, 10:36 PM
From the AAFA website: (Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America)

http://www.aafa.org/display.cfm?id=9&sub=22&cont=308

The ADA extends many of the rights and duties of Section 504 to public accommodations such as restaurants, hotels, theaters, stores, doctors' offices, museums, private schools and child care programs. They must be readily accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities.
...

and...

Does the ADA Apply to People with Asthma and Allergies?
Yes. In both the ADA and Section 504, a person with a disability is described as someone who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, or is regarded as having such impairments. Breathing, eating, working and going to school are "major life activities." Asthma and allergies are still considered disabilities under the ADA, even if symptoms are controlled by medication.

tjkraz
05-16-2005, 10:37 PM
just because the occupancy level is higher doenst mean it cant work. its difficult, theres potential problems and there possible answers.

Agreed. But I would respectfully make two points:

1. Clearly you are in favor of such a change. But through all of the debate, a lot of folks have pointed out many potential problems--all of which you have been willing to overlook. Not all of us are as willing to dismiss these issues as being completely irrelevant.

2. You seem to be implying that Disney / DVC / DVD has NEVER even given a second thought to these types of changes. While I have no evidence to support my position, I very much believe that Disney has researched such changes to its reservation system. My guess is that one of two things happened:

a) They determined that the negative impact to guests would outweigh the positive, or
b) They could quietly be implementing such a system.

Disney's goal has always been to provide the highest-quality service to guests, often via technological innovation. Taking into account total guest satisfaction and the services that they can consistently commit to providing, if Disney resorts are functionally capable of granting room guarantees at the time of the booking, they absolutely will do so.

And if they don't, I believe it has more to do with the projected negative impact on guests rather than simple apathy.

Disney Fanatic
05-16-2005, 10:42 PM
Interesting thoughts, but I think you're a little off-base in your reasoning. The only time that Disney profits on a cash reservation is when a member has used his/her points to trade-out of the 7 DVC resorts. Disney converts those points to cash rooms which are rented to the general public, and pockets the proceeds.

Any other time, proceeds from cash bookings are returned to members. It's listed in the annual budget as "breakage" income.

The primary reason for the higher point weekends is to balance demand. If the point schedule was flat, weekends would be booked solid rather quickly by members within driving distance of WDW who want to stay over a long weekend. Many seem to think that the weekends currently do cost too much in comparison to the weekdays, but that's a debate for another thread. ;)

I need to get my hands on a DVC contract which for some reason seems a little difficult. Sorry if I don't have all the facts but I am trying to get a copy of one without signing up for DVC until I am more informed.

I am not doubting you are right but just wondering why if we live in Canada that our Canadian Tour Operators that publish annual brochures show DVC properties there to book? I wonder where they get their allottment from?

TCPluto
05-16-2005, 10:43 PM
A typical response in that I know that requests are not guaranteed. I don't feel so self absorbed that I want to try and change a system that works for about 98% of the reservations, just because it might not work for me every single time.

A typical response in that I am not in the business of WDW resort hotel management with all of the unique challenges that this would entail. Being an arm chair quarterback is a long way from playing the game. That's what is going on here, telling the professional resort managers how they should do their job. Seems a bit arrogant.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 10:45 PM
Agreed. But I would respectfully make two points:

1. Clearly you are in favor of such a change. But through all of the debate, a lot of folks have pointed out many potential problems--all of which you have been willing to overlook. Not all of us are as willing to dismiss these issues as being completely irrelevant.

2. You seem to be implying that Disney / DVC / DVD has NEVER even given a second thought to these types of changes. While I have no evidence to support my position, I very much believe that Disney has researched such changes to its reservation system. My guess is that one of two things happened:

a) They determined that the negative impact to guests would outweigh the positive, or
b) They could quietly be implementing such a system.

Disney's goal has always been to provide the highest-quality service to guests, often via technological innovation. Taking into account total guest satisfaction and the services that they can consistently commit to providing, if Disney resorts are functionally capable of granting room guarantees at the time of the booking, they absolutely will do so.

And if they don't, I believe it has more to do with the projected negative impact on guests rather than simple apathy.

100% agreed on everything, except 1) above. I tried to give potential answers to some of the possible pitfalls.

Of course dvc knows way better than me the type of system to run. I'm just trying to show maybe there could be a better way. not that it is a better way but hey you never know unless you get into the meat of the matter and discuss it and throw around ideas with each other.

but of course I am sonew to dvc that I should probably just sit back and have no opinion

skelooch
05-16-2005, 10:46 PM
Disney Fanatic;

In your earlier post you said that Fairfield would guarantee your exact room request, now your saying they can't guarantee it.
Sounds like they're no different than DVC.
I happen to always book at 11 month or at least I have so far, and so far my system has worked pretty well.

TCPluto
05-16-2005, 10:46 PM
Agreed. But I would respectfully make two points:

1. Clearly you are in favor of such a change. But through all of the debate, a lot of folks have pointed out many potential problems--all of which you have been willing to overlook. Not all of us are as willing to dismiss these issues as being completely irrelevant.

2. You seem to be implying that Disney / DVC / DVD has NEVER even given a second thought to these types of changes. While I have no evidence to support my position, I very much believe that Disney has researched such changes to its reservation system. My guess is that one of two things happened:

a) They determined that the negative impact to guests would outweigh the positive, or
b) They could quietly be implementing such a system.

Disney's goal has always been to provide the highest-quality service to guests, often via technological innovation. Taking into account total guest satisfaction and the services that they can consistently commit to providing, if Disney resorts are functionally capable of granting room guarantees at the time of the booking, they absolutely will do so.

And if they don't, I believe it has more to do with the projected negative impact on guests rather than simple apathy.

Well said.

While not possible to make everyone happy every time/all the time, I think they have settled in to a system that offers the most satisfaction for the highest number of guests.

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 10:50 PM
A typical response in that I know that requests are not guaranteed. I don't feel so self absorbed that I want to try and change a system that works for about 98% of the reservations, just because it might not work for me every single time.

A typical response in that I am not in the business of WDW resort hotel management with all of the unique challenges that this would entail. Being an arm chair quarterback is a long way from playing the game. That's what is going on here, telling the professional resort managers how they should do their job. Seems a bit arrogant.


so why have a forum to discuss any issues. none of us are experts in this, we are simply the users.

what is the fear in discussing change, how do you not know a new system could not work for the same 98% and whereby all 98% know exactly what to expect before they arrive?

why is this sooo unthinkable as to even discuss?

Disney Fanatic
05-16-2005, 10:51 PM
Disney Fanatic;

In your earlier post you said that Fairfield would guarantee your exact room request, now your saying they can't guarantee it.
Sounds like they're no different than DVC.
I happen to always book at 11 month or at least I have so far, and so far my system has worked pretty well.

If I understand their system correctly, if you book at the 11 month window and the room is available, you get that room number. If that room is not available, you can pick the exact room number you want.

What the salesman was saying was that he cannot guarantee that someone wanting the exact room is calling at the magic hour at the 11th month to make the exact same reservation. The chances are preety slim but you never know.......therefore he cannot guarantee it.

I hope this makes sense.

TCPluto
05-16-2005, 10:54 PM
Whats the purpose of an endeavor that doesn't have the potential for a greater reward? Make a slightly different 98% happy? I say save the money, time and energy and do something else with it..

Disney Fanatic
05-16-2005, 10:57 PM
A typical response in that I know that requests are not guaranteed. I don't feel so self absorbed that I want to try and change a system that works for about 98% of the reservations, just because it might not work for me every single time.

A typical response in that I am not in the business of WDW resort hotel management with all of the unique challenges that this would entail. Being an arm chair quarterback is a long way from playing the game. That's what is going on here, telling the professional resort managers how they should do their job. Seems a bit arrogant.


I only suggested something that I thought was a good idea at another company as something that may work at Disney.

I did not say that it was a perfect answer, just a suggestion.

I just took a 2nd look to see that this was indeed a Forum I was signed into to discuss ideas and not be criticized for making suggestions.

I don't think Disney would have ever become the company they are today if they didn't listen to new ideas!!

tjkraz
05-16-2005, 11:01 PM
I am not doubting you are right but just wondering why if we live in Canada that our Canadian Tour Operators that publish annual brochures show DVC properties there to book? I wonder where they get their allottment from?

Rooms are certainly available to book by cash-paying customers (subject to availability, of course), but my point was that not all of the dollars go into Disney's pockets.

Here are two scenarios:

1. DVC owner at the Boardwalk uses 200 points to book a vacation via the Concierge Collection. DVC is a third-party in this transaction. 200 DVC points hold zero value for the Conceirge Collection hotel. What really happens is DVC makes some cash payment to the Concierge Collection hotel to secure you reservation, and they take your 200 points as compensation. DVC will then turn those 200 points into vacant rooms at the Boardwalk Villas (they effectively choose the dates and room size at their whim). Those BWV rooms are then made available to the public via CRO, and any monies received from cash customers for the room go do Disney.

Occasionally you'll see a member post a complaint that goes something like this: "DVC says they don't have a room at XXX resort for XXX dates, but I can see one available at www.disneyworld.com." The previous paragraph explains why. When members trade out of DVC, their points are used to set-aside rooms for cash guests. DVC members no longer have access to that inventory of rooms.

2. At 60 days prior to check-in, ALL unbooked rooms at DVC resorts are made available to the general public. Rooms booked at this point fall under the "breakage" category. Monies collected from the cash guests go back into the resort budget, and effectively reduce the member dues for the resort. Disney / DVC does not profit from rooms rented in this manner.

3. There's actually a third category, which is rooms reserved by DVC members at the 25% cash discount. I believe these are also included under "breakage" income (since the discount is based upon a projected vacancy at the resort), but someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Now back to our regularly-scheduled thread. ;)

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 11:03 PM
Whats the purpose of an endeavor that doesn't have the potential for a greater reward? Make a slightly different 98% happy? I say save the money, time and energy and do something else with it..

you'd never know if the reward was potentailly greater because you never even gave it a chance.

Im glad history is not made up of people who just said "thats the way it is, it works, so lets not waste any money, time or energy trying to make it any better

sjdisneywedding
05-16-2005, 11:06 PM
I only suggested something that I thought was a good idea at another company as something that may work at Disney.

I did not say that it was a perfect answer, just a suggestion.

I just took a 2nd look to see that this was indeed a Forum I was signed into to discuss ideas and not be criticized for making suggestions.

I don't think Disney would have ever become the company they are today if they didn't listen to new ideas!!

EXCELLENT POINTS throughout all your posts.

TCPluto
05-16-2005, 11:12 PM
I think you would have few people willing to make changes to a system that seems to work so well for so many.

We're not talking about a 50, 60 or even 80 percent satisfaction rate. The poll conducted several months ago, among this small pool of DVC owners who visit this board, showed a satisfaction rate of about 98%.

How can anyone really hope to improve on that?

TCPluto
05-16-2005, 11:16 PM
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and seek support for them from others. Me too.

tjkraz
05-16-2005, 11:18 PM
Im glad history is not made up of people who just said "thats the way it is, it works, so lets not waste any money, time or energy trying to make it any better

Yeah, worked out well for General Custer, eh? :teeth:

Yes, risk-takers sometimes do get rewarded. Other times they get buried.

Nevertheless, through this entire debate (and many previous), the one thing that keeps resonating is this elusive idea of what really is "better."

Some think "better" means guaranteeing S/NS and H/NH.

Some think "better" means guaranteeing views, buildings, and resort location.

Some think "better" means guaranteeing specific room numbers.

Some think Room Ready is best.

Some think pre-assignement is best.

Some think assignments should be based upon reservation date.

Some think assignments should be based upon Home resort ownership.

Some want the flexibility to pick their individual room when they arrive at the resort.

Some don't know what the heck to think.

Some are too afraid to even post here.

And some troublesome folks even suggest that the current system may be the best, most versatile of all.

For Disney it's a lose-lose proposition. Some hate the current system. And if they implemented changes, many would hate the new system. In the end, I suspect their best defense is that printed piece of paper we all signed that says nothing is guaranteed. At least Disney / DVC / DVD can use the "I toldja so" defense.

Does that mean the current system is the best that could exist? No. But if members can't even universally agree on a system that is better, I can't imagine DVC choosing to walk that plank.

TCPluto
05-16-2005, 11:55 PM
Quite well put TJ. Careful though, you'll not make friends professing such heiracy.

Beca
05-17-2005, 12:15 AM
I think the problem with the current system is that DVC professes to have changed to "meet the requests of members" who were complaining that getting into rooms after 4:00 was a bit of a pain. Well, the problem now is...no one seems to be getting into rooms any earlier unless it is because a room was empty the night before. I became a DVC member right as the policy was being changed, and I have NEVER gotten into a room before about 4:30...so, I am in the camp that is looking for that "benefit".

The other problem with the implementation of "room ready" is that DVC says they changed their policy because of the requests of owners. Yet, no one seems to remember being asked their opinions on this matter. If DVC changed this policy to "make things easier"...then, they need to say just that. But, saying they are "responding to member feedback" implies that they WANT and are actively SEEKING the advice of members. Thus, discussions like this on the disboards. I don't think anyone means to imply that they are "smarter" than trained professionals at DVC. But, when a company sets themselves up as "listening and responding to membership", they are, in essence soliciting what might be a lot of unwanted advice.

I agree pretty much wholeheartedly with Dean. I don't see how hard it would be for the room-assigner to separate all arriving ressies for each day into "groups" and assign them in an order of priority. Medical NS, Non-HA for safety reasons first...then go by booking date. I am a fan of Crisi's plan for assigning 11-7 month window ressies first, then owners within a 3-7 month window, then non-owners during the 3-7 month window, then all members, then CRO. But, that is just what would benefit me the most....I will probably always choose to stay at my home resort if it is open.

I guess my point is this....instead of DVC "saying" they are listening and responding to the requests of the membership....why don't they really listen, and give feedback as to why some things are possible/not possible. Maybe this is discussed at the condo meetings, I don't know...I haven't been to WDW while they were going on...but, I will be there this year and plan to go. I hope this is an issue I get the chance to address. I would love to have some answers....even if it shows how truly "stupid" I am.

:wave:

Beca

Tony P. IL.
05-17-2005, 04:38 AM
Go get em Beca

dianeschlicht
05-17-2005, 07:36 AM
Crisi, thanks for starting such an interesting thread! Sorry I was not around yesterday to participate, but lots of great points were brought up. I agree with Crisi's list, but I think expecting DVC to go to a program like that is unrealistic. I suspect Disney will do what is easiest for them, and if the get fewer disatisfied guests with this current system, they will leave it in place. The squeeky wheel gets the grease, in this case.

bicker
05-17-2005, 07:40 AM
Only cruise ships and boutique hotels allow folks to book specific rooms.
:rotfl2: Sorry but this is completely 100% FALSE! I travel for a living, sometimes as many as a couple hundred nights a year and almost EVERY hotel I have ever stayed has a guarenteed NS request.Please try reading what you're replying to before replying. I never said anything about requests. I said "specific rooms." :rolleyes2

bicker
05-17-2005, 07:44 AM
It can be done, but room vacancies will increase. Exactly. The real question is what pct. increase will there be in room vacancies? Is DVC/Disney willing to accept rooms not being filled on certain days? It's not a question: The timeshare is designed to withstand a very specific level of vacancy. There is no way to change that level of vacancy without violating the master deed.

bicker
05-17-2005, 07:52 AM
so why have a forum to discuss any issues.The purpose of this forum is to, "share information and tips," not "discuss issues." While discussing issues is allowed, of course, it isn't the purpose of the forum.

none of us are experts in this, we are simply the users. Obstensibly, especially in light of the that bit about sharing information and tips, I consider the folks who have been DVC members significantly longer than I have to be "experts," and greatly rely on and respect their input in this forum. Some of these folks have raised what I consider to be some rather significant counter-points -- points I wouldn't dismiss so quickly.

bicker
05-17-2005, 07:54 AM
Yet, no one seems to remember being asked their opinions on this matter. Huh? No one else remembers getting survey cards in the mail after their visits? We've been surveyed at least three times since joining DVC. Why are we special?

dianeschlicht
05-17-2005, 08:07 AM
LOL, Bicker, do you always talk to yourself?
Just teasing. I agree with all of your posts above. Folks forget that timeshares are meant to have nearly 100% coverage at any one time. In a points system, it would not work if there was only 100% coverage expected only at specific times.

sjdisneywedding
05-17-2005, 08:19 AM
LOL, Bicker, do you always talk to yourself?
Just teasing. I agree with all of your posts above. Folks forget that timeshares are meant to have nearly 100% coverage at any one time. In a points system, it would not work if there was only 100% coverage expected only at specific times.

can you explain how it wouldnt still be allowed to maintian 100% occupany (which by the way is incorrect). we are not taking rooms out of the mix.

same amount of rooms,
same amount of members
same amount of points issued

if you do not think there are 2 and 3 and 4 day dvc trips now than you are probablly mistaken.

sjdisneywedding
05-17-2005, 08:22 AM
Please try reading what you're replying to before replying. I never said anything about requests. I said "specific rooms." :rolleyes2

actually sorry but you are the one who did not read MY post. I already said 50 times over I am referring to a system where NS and HA can be guarenteed at booking, not specicfic rooms.

You are the one who quoted my post then going on about specific rooms, which I never even mentioned.

sjdisneywedding
05-17-2005, 08:23 AM
Exactly. It's not a question: The timeshare is designed to withstand a very specific level of vacancy. There is no way to change that level of vacancy without violating the master deed.


again please tell me why it means vacany levels have to decrease. Theres no evidence of this whatsoever. Its a good arguement but theres no evidence supporting this.

sjdisneywedding
05-17-2005, 08:27 AM
The purpose of this forum is to, "share information and tips," not "discuss issues." While discussing issues is allowed, of course, it isn't the purpose of the forum.

Obstensibly, especially in light of the that bit about sharing information and tips, I consider the folks who have been DVC members significantly longer than I have to be "experts," and greatly rely on and respect their input in this forum. Some of these folks have raised what I consider to be some rather significant counter-points -- points I wouldn't dismiss so quickly.


please try to the read posts before you reply :smooth:

I never siad its the 'purpose' of this forum, I said why bother having a forum if we can not openly discuss issues. thanks for sharing the definition of a forum though

never said dvc members were not experts on certain aspects of using dvc. My point is that they/we are not experts in the hotel/timeshare reservation industry.

of course people have raised GREAT points-counterpoints. Thats the whole point. who the heck ever said requests at booking was a save all, life altering perfect, nothing-can-go-wrong process. Its just a different process with different pro's and con's. i dont see the harm at all in discussing experiences and throwing around ideas, good and bad.

everything can be improved upon, nothing is perfect

dianeschlicht
05-17-2005, 08:40 AM
can you explain how it wouldnt still be allowed to maintian 100% occupany (which by the way is incorrect). we are not taking rooms out of the mix.

same amount of rooms,
same amount of members
same amount of points issued

if you do not think there are 2 and 3 and 4 day dvc trips now than you are probablly mistaken.
You misunderstood my statement.

sjdisneywedding
05-17-2005, 08:44 AM
I think you would have few people willing to make changes to a system that seems to work so well for so many.

We're not talking about a 50, 60 or even 80 percent satisfaction rate. The poll conducted several months ago, among this small pool of DVC owners who visit this board, showed a satisfaction rate of about 98%.

How can anyone really hope to improve on that?

I dont really remember that poll, I believe you just didnt see that one.

I am sure the satisfaction rate is certainly, BUT satisfaction is something that has a sliding scale to it. In other words, maybe the 98% will have a higher satisfaction rate.

Maybe you say who cares, satisfied is satisfied, but I would use myself(I know too new to even matter, right?) as an example.

I am satisfied with dvc overall, I am even mostly satisifed with granting requests at check in or during pre-assignment(as long as I knew which it was), but I would be most satisfied with time of booking requests.

you have to be careful with polls, they are limited in showing the big picture.

by the way you should go over and read the original doc poll, if you havent already. I just reread it and it seems theres quite a few unhappy campers, seems maybe that satisfaction rate may be dipping a bit.

sjdisneywedding
05-17-2005, 08:47 AM
You misunderstood my statement.

sorry didnt mean to, I am not trying to get on you just really interested in why everyone thinks high occupancy couldnt be maintained

Its just something in my head that is not clicking for me. i was hoping someone could share.

dianeschlicht
05-17-2005, 08:50 AM
I think it not only CAN be maintained by that is the goal. What I meant is that NOT expecting 100% occupancy was unrealistic.

sjdisneywedding
05-17-2005, 08:51 AM
I think it not only CAN be maintained by that is the goal. What I meant is that NOT expecting 100% occupancy was unrealistic.

I gotcha
:)

sjdisneywedding
05-17-2005, 08:56 AM
For Disney it's a lose-lose proposition. Some hate the current system. And if they implemented changes, many would hate the new system. In the end, I suspect their best defense is that printed piece of paper we all signed that says nothing is guaranteed. At least Disney / DVC / DVD can use the "I toldja so" defense.

Does that mean the current system is the best that could exist? No. But if members can't even universally agree on a system that is better, I can't imagine DVC choosing to walk that plank.

well if that isnt the truth.....
aint much fun though for us trying to debate

OneMoreTry
05-17-2005, 09:03 AM
Isn't the debate about what's popular versus what's fair?

Room ready may be popular because the majority don't book right at 11 months, but is it the fairest system? I don't think so. I think priority should be given to those that plan ahead and book early. Priority should include: NS, HA and general room category. Each resort could have 3 categories, like Boardwalk does.

That should be doable 100% of the time. Or at least that should be the goal and work should continue until it is reached.


On a slightly different note:
After guests leave a "Sniffer" should check each NS room for the presence of smoke. If needed the room should be de-smoked. If the Sniffer STILL detects smoke the room should be held vacant and aired out until the Sniffer is satisfied. :earboy2: It should be highly paid and I volunteer as I have a sensitive nose.

sjdisneywedding
05-17-2005, 09:14 AM
Isn't the debate about what's popular versus what's fair?

Room ready may be popular because the majority don't book right at 11 months, but is it the fairest system? I don't think so. I think priority should be given to those that plan ahead and book early. Priority should include: NS, HA and general room category. Each resort could have 3 categories, like Boardwalk does.

That should be doable 100% of the time. Or at least that should be the goal and work should continue until it is reached.


On a slightly different note:
After guests leave a "Sniffer" should check each NS room for the presence of smoke. If needed the room should be de-smoked. If the Sniffer STILL detects smoke the room should be held vacant and aired out until the Sniffer is satisfied. :earboy2: It should be highly paid and I volunteer as I have a sensitive nose.


Its a great point. I sense alot of people who do not have a problem with the current system are probably either those early arrivers and/or late bookers who feel they either have nothing to gain or a lot to lose.

From my point of view though, I just cant see how anyone can really argue which system is fairest. book early get your request, how in the world could anything be more fair than that and thats coming from someone who arrives about as early as anyone and usually doesnt book at 11 months

I probably would lose out of some requests in a new system, but that doesnt mean I cant agree that it would fairer.

Plus the fact it puts more emphasis and benefit to your home resort. Theres always the posts going around "whats the benefit to your home resort". Well lets add to that, it significantly increases your chances to receive your room requests since you will be booking there early than other guests.

how messed up is it that as a SSr member I can walk up at 10 am and get the last NS room at BWV, when a BWV member walks up at 10:15 and cant get a NS room at his/her own resort when they may have booked at 11 months and I may have booked at 11 weeks

CarolMN
05-17-2005, 09:44 AM
...(snip)..... Maybe this is discussed at the condo meetings, I don't know...I haven't been to WDW while they were going on...but, I will be there this year and plan to go. I hope this is an issue I get the chance to address. I would love to have some answers.....
Beca - Hope you get the chance to ask the question - there has been short period (45 -60 minutes) at the end of the business meetings for members to ask questions. But based on the two annual meetings I've attended, I doubt there will be any meaningful answers given at the meeting. Would still love a report, though. Please do one, OK? The timing for me doesn't work out to attend this year, drat!

Best wishes -

CarolMN
05-17-2005, 09:54 AM
Isn't the debate about what's popular versus what's fair?...(snip).......... but is it the fairest system? ......
What's fair?

In Minnesota, the Fair is in August. :)

In Iowa, it's the place where you take your pig. :teeth:

Not sure what/where it is in other places.

While it can be fun to discuss, arguing about "what is fair" is pointless -unless you get everyone to agree on the definition of fair. Ain't gonna happen. :teeth:

Best wishes-


P.S. Just thought this thread needed a little humor. OneMoreTry - thanks for being my "straightman" . Hope I didn't offend as I don't mean to.

Beca
05-17-2005, 09:58 AM
Beca - Hope you get the chance to ask the question - there has been short period (45 -60 minutes) at the end of the business meetings for members to ask questions. But based on the two annual meetings I've attended, I doubt there will be any meaningful answers given at the meeting. Would still love a report, though. Please do one, OK? The timing for me doesn't work out to attend this year, drat!

Best wishes -

CarolMN...I will certainly do that (although, I think my family may "ditch" me on this one) they think I am "nuts" for wanting to go...but, they don't obsess about this as much as I do. And, now that all of our points are at one resort, and we are actually staying there....there seems to be no reason for me NOT to go...besides, I think it could be really interesting. I guess I am not expecting "much" in the way of DVC wanting to hear our "suggestions", but if not at the condo meeting...then when?

bicker...I have never received a survey card. I didn't even know they existed. Maybe DVC DOES like you better!!! ;)

:wave:

crisi
05-17-2005, 10:01 AM
Its a great point. I sense alot of people who do not have a problem with the current system are probably either those early arrivers and/or late bookers who feel they either have nothing to gain or a lot to lose.

From my point of view though, I just cant see how anyone can really argue which system is fairest. book early get your request, how in the world could anything be more fair than that and thats coming from someone who arrives about as early as anyone and usually doesnt book at 11 months

If we narrow this down to "guarentee non-smoking" like you want to, I'd agree. The problem is that not everyone cares about the same thing. Some really do value location above smoking preference. Some value early check in. Sometimes that changes with the trip for the same person. So lets say eleven months out I book a room. The ONLY thing I care about is being close to turtle pond. I don't care a whit about smoking preference. I'm put in a non-smoking building because that's what's close to turtle pond (I don't know OKW that well and this may be completely wrong, perhaps I should pick a better example). Nine months out you come along. The only thing you care about is non-smoking, but I'm already in your non-smoking room - not that I care about smoking, but because it meets my "by turtle pond" requirement.

What if my only request is "room ready." I don't care what I get - put me in a smoking/handicapped accessible room overlooking the dumpster - as long as its clean when I pull in at 9:00 am after driving all night? The room that is clean is non-smoking. Should I get it? My ONLY request is room ready.

What if the scale of importance for my non-smoking request is a six? I'd rather not have a smoking room, but my in-laws smoke, we spend time in their house, I could deal. But I know from your posts that your importance is a 10 - you wouldn't travel. Should that factor in? I feel this way about HA rooms - they aren't the best rooms, but I can deal. Obviously other people here can't. So if we guarentee non-HA, I'll take the non-HA eleven months out, and someone else will not take the trip they want.

I think you are completely right if this is a "can they guarentee non-smoking discussion." But the question is bigger than that.

jarestel
05-17-2005, 10:08 AM
Definite guarantee categories should be:
N/S, HA/NHA - Since there are a known number of these room types, 99% of the time, this SHOULD be doable. Book it and if the categories are already full, you can make other plans based on this information. Maintenance issues that prevent the member from occupying the room at checkin time should be few and far between, but if it does occur, both front desk staff and the member need to be flexible in order to resolve the situation.

Weighted requests:
Views, elevator locations, specific buildings -These would still be requests, but when assigning rooms, the room assigner would place a higher priority on the reservations and requests from home resort owners ( prioritized by date of reservation ) than on others. Members would need to realize it may not always be possible to get all ( or even any ) of their weighted requests met.

Normal requests:
Views, elevator locations, specific buildings - These rooms would be assigned for non-home resort owners ( first priority ) and cash guests ( last priority )after all of the weighted requests from home resort owners had been assigned. This is the current "requests are only requests" system in place today.

Rooms would need to be pre-assigned at some point prior to arrival under this system. How far in advance should be determined by the most workable compromise between granting members' requests and managing a busy resort.

No system is perfect but as long as members feel DVC is trying to make things better, I don't think the occasional glitch should be reason for torches and pitchforks. Though I've never actually seen one, the "yellers and screamers" should not be placated by giving away another member's room, since this throws the whole system into disarray. As one who has raised 3 children, I know that eventually they will stop crying and quiet down once they realize all of that racket isn't going to get them their way. Once the front desk CMs learn this, we will have a much better system.

Cheers!

crisi
05-17-2005, 10:15 AM
From the AAFA website: (Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America)

http://www.aafa.org/display.cfm?id=9&sub=22&cont=308

The ADA extends many of the rights and duties of Section 504 to public accommodations such as restaurants, hotels, theaters, stores, doctors' offices, museums, private schools and child care programs. They must be readily accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities.
...

and...

Does the ADA Apply to People with Asthma and Allergies?
Yes. In both the ADA and Section 504, a person with a disability is described as someone who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, or is regarded as having such impairments. Breathing, eating, working and going to school are "major life activities." Asthma and allergies are still considered disabilities under the ADA, even if symptoms are controlled by medication.

Dean's point is that timeshares are not public accomodations. They are legally more in line with condos than with hotels, and therefore timeshares are under no legal obligation to comply with the ADA.

crisi
05-17-2005, 10:33 AM
jarestel, I think you are on the right track. The changes I'd make is that they would book a quantity of rooms equal to 90% (or some such number) of the available non-smoking rooms as non-smoking -- same with smoking. The remaining 10% of reservations would be booked as "smoking optional tbd." That would give Disney some flexibility for maintenance issues, and make sure that those on the ball enough to book eleven months out weren't the ones screwed by the pipe leaking.

Also, the weighted requests - for the system to work, you need a room assigner again, and rooms granted in order of reservation. Order of arrival doesn't work if you are going to give home resort owners any sort of priority.

Now the question (again). I book seven months out. All the non-smoking rooms are taken. I'm put in "smoking tbd" but with a "non-smoking" request. Is there an automatic waitlist?

jarestel
05-17-2005, 10:40 AM
Now the question (again). I book seven months out. All the non-smoking rooms are taken. I'm put in "smoking tbd" but with a "non-smoking" request. Is there an automatic waitlist?

As with today's system, you may waitlist for a guaranteed N/S room. However, under the "new" system, based on this info you can choose to book a N/S room at another resort ( if available ), or move your travel dates to a time when there are N/S rooms available. Or you have the option of rolling the dice with your smoking tbd ressie and hoping for the best. Many more options than we have today, IMO.

Also, in my room assignment scenario, I agree it would require a room assigner to make the room assignments at some point prior to arrival and they would definitely need to be prioritized by reservation date. How far out should rooms be assigned? I'm open to whatever makes sense and is the most workable compromise between granting requests and running a busy resort.

OneMoreTry
05-17-2005, 11:07 AM
The problem is that not everyone cares about the same thing.

I think the number of categories would have to be limited. As in my post above I think the "location" category would have to be limited to 3 per resort, or maybe 4 for a large resort like OKW.

So you'd have:

S vs NS
HA vs nonHA
Location

Assign these.

Allocate the other rooms as "room ready." Room ready is clearly not guaranteed. That's stated everywhere in DVC literature. (So plan trips accordingly -- maybe book the night before so it'll be yours when you get there.) Leave a few open for rooms that have been trashed and are unusable.

:earsboy:

dianeschlicht
05-17-2005, 11:18 AM
I think the number of categories would have to be limited. As in my post above I think the "location" category would have to be limited to 3 per resort, or maybe 4 for a large resort like OKW.

So you'd have:

S vs NS
HA vs nonHA
Location

Assign these.

Allocate the other rooms as "room ready." Room ready is clearly not guaranteed. That's stated everywhere in DVC literature. (So plan trips accordingly -- maybe book the night before so it'll be yours when you get there.) Leave a few open for rooms that have been trashed and are unusable.

:earsboy:
This suggestion has merit, in my eyes! I guess I think 'location' should be a non-guarnateed one too if things are at 100% capacity.

Nanajo1
05-17-2005, 11:20 AM
some troublesome folks even suggest that the current system may be the best, most versatile of all.

For Disney it's a lose-lose proposition. Some hate the current system. And if they implemented changes, many would hate the new system. In the end, I suspect their best defense is that printed piece of paper we all signed that says nothing is guaranteed. At least Disney / DVC / DVD can use the "I toldja so" defense.

Does that mean the current system is the best that could exist? No. But if members can't even universally agree on a system that is better, I can't imagine DVC choosing to walk that plank.

What is the current system? I checked into BWV early in the day and my preassigned room is not available until after 5pm and then it is still occupied!
I check into OKW late in the day and I'm told I can pick from certain rooms none which meet any of my requests.
So which is the current system room ready or preassigned?

dianeschlicht
05-17-2005, 11:22 AM
What is the current system? I checked into BWV early in the day and my preassigned room is not available until after 5pm and then it is still occupied!
I check into OKW late in the day and I'm told I can pick from certain rooms none which meet any of my requests.
So which is the current system room ready or preassigned?
That is the big question! I don't think anyone really knows. Even MS and the CMs at the resorts haved a hard time admitting what it is!

Johnnie Fedora
05-17-2005, 11:54 AM
When Doc's original thread kicked off this topic there were numerous sympathetic posts about how his situation was awful and should not happen to a home resort owner who books at 11 months. It's funny how quickly opinions change to the old "DCV knows best montra" :rolleyes: Afterall, who are we to make suggestions for improvement...just pay your dues and shut-up?? :confused3

Member dissatisfaction and suggestions have (in part) brought about some positive changes (AP pass discount, 5 in a 1-BR) impacting the majority of DVC members. :earsboy:

It would be nice to see the official request policy issued to members in a DVC communication, clubhouse, vacation magic, etc.

fishermouse
05-17-2005, 12:12 PM
Seems like we're really making this complicated. If you make a resevation at a non DVC resort, for instance Animal kingdom and ask for a specific room type lets say savanna veiw. At the time of the reservation they tell you if it's available or not, no matter what time you check in you get what you paid for. The problem is when people make multiple requests. As far as smoking prefrence they should give make it so you get a non smoking unless you request smoking, seems any more there are a lot more non-smokers.
I guess when I said to assign a room at time of reservation I should have said Room type.. If it's not available you know before hand and have the option to stay somwhere else or take what they have... I would never change rooms during my stay unless something happened to my room. None of the rooms I've been in are that bad. Just using SSR for example the rooms with the best view are farthest from the main pool area. The newer section has nice views of the grounds you just don't see DD from your balcony. As with most on this board I have spent a lot of time at DW stayed in a lot of different resorts and have never been unsatisfied. I like SSR the most thats Why I increased my points, again...

dianeschlicht
05-17-2005, 12:32 PM
Seems like we're really making this complicated. If you make a resevation at a non DVC resort, for instance Animal kingdom and ask for a specific room type lets say savanna veiw. At the time of the reservation they tell you if it's available or not, no matter what time you check in you get what you paid for. The problem is when people make multiple requests. As far as smoking prefrence they should give make it so you get a non smoking unless you request smoking, seems any more there are a lot more non-smokers.
I guess when I said to assign a room at time of reservation I should have said Room type.. If it's not available you know before hand and have the option to stay somwhere else or take what they have... I would never change rooms during my stay unless something happened to my room. None of the rooms I've been in are that bad. Just using SSR for example the rooms with the best view are farthest from the main pool area. The newer section has nice views of the grounds you just don't see DD from your balcony. As with most on this board I have spent a lot of time at DW stayed in a lot of different resorts and have never been unsatisfied. I like SSR the most thats Why I increased my points, again...

Your analogy is not EXACTLY true. We reserved AKL Savanna view, non-smoking for cash a couple years ago. Our flight got delayed, and we got in very late. The only room available was a HA. We took it, and it was fine, but definitely a dissapointment.

pplasky
05-17-2005, 12:53 PM
Personally, I think that it should be medical requests first, and then everything
else based on the date of the reservation. I also believe that some people
request way too much and believe that they have to have the PERFECT room
or their vacation will be ruined.

One thing that everyone has to remember about DVC - meeting requests
is much harder because there is no requirement for you to reserve a week.
Also, DVC has to try to optimize the occupancy for everyone. So, unlike
other timeshares which could actually let you reserve a certain room, DVC
can't do that because they don't know if it will be occupied or not.

Pretty much how I feel, except only one request per room(or one medical and one non-medical).

childsplay
05-17-2005, 01:34 PM
It would be nice to see the official request policy issued to members in a DVC communication, clubhouse, vacation magic, etc.
Johnnie, I thought they did that last year or so on the website and in a vacation magic issue..(I can't remember off the top of my head) but it said something to the effect that the time to make requests was when you were making the reservation and not to call the resort directly in the days leading up to your arrival (which apparenty was happening quite a bit).
The problem is at least 2 fold, possibly 3,
First-Disney not sticking to a policy..we clearly have examples of BWV not using room ready, even though that is what Disney "officially" says they are using..you are asking for headaches to claim one thing and deliver another.
Second-unreasonable member expectations and disneys willingness to acquiesce to these people.

crisi
05-17-2005, 03:36 PM
OneMoreTry and Diane,

By location, what do you mean. i.e. the locations at BWV (standard view/BW View/preferred view) or perhaps the "communities" at SSR? Or maybe "bay side, woods side" at VWL. Or are you talking about "high floor" vs. "low floor" or "close to elevators"

The first I can see doing - particularly at the larger resorts. To "zone" OKW and let you choose a zone shouldn't be a big deal. The second I need to be convinced is logistically sound.

Daitcher
05-17-2005, 04:47 PM
Crisi,

Thanks for taking the time to post. I can't agree here with your ranking system. Someone staying on cash is every bit as entitled to a good room as a DVC Member. Everyone should be taken care of when possible. I've stated this before and to me it is the only way to stop the complaining and member dissatisfaction. First, all resorts need to use the Room Ready system and adhere to the basic principles with out exception. When a guest arrives the CM checking guests in offers said guest a choice of the rooms available at that time. That is all the rooms shown as available anyway. Giving guests the idea that they are picking a room will satisfy many more people IMO. No requests should be taken when a reservation is made unless medical in nature such as NS or HA, period. This "early bird gets the worm" paranoia is just that, paranoia. The only rooms a guests can get is what is available at the moment of check in. If they want to chance it and come back later and see what is available that is there choice. There should be no requesting anyhting and getting it later. Really luck would dictate what room you get. Later arrivers might get that just cleaned room with the perfect location for them. Second, no exceptions should evr be made to the policies. If we all know the rules there woulkd be less to question. Lying and being given the run around is not good business. This , I suspect has led to many unhappy guests. Just explain the policies of room ready and try to help the guests. Is this system perfect, no, but what is. At least we would all know what to expect. I for one would welcome any room after traveling to get to WDW. Thanks for taking the time to post. Your ideas are interesting and food for thought. This is purely my 2 cents and the way I'd run things.

DAVE

jarestel
05-17-2005, 04:56 PM
Never mind...

dianeschlicht
05-17-2005, 05:05 PM
OneMoreTry and Diane,

By location, what do you mean. i.e. the locations at BWV (standard view/BW View/preferred view) or perhaps the "communities" at SSR? Or maybe "bay side, woods side" at VWL. Or are you talking about "high floor" vs. "low floor" or "close to elevators"

The first I can see doing - particularly at the larger resorts. To "zone" OKW and let you choose a zone shouldn't be a big deal. The second I need to be convinced is logistically sound.
While I think that would be a nice idea for a lot of people, I just don't see location at any one resort being that big a deal. I guess it just isn't for me.

bicker
05-17-2005, 05:15 PM
actually sorry but you are the one who did not read MY post. I contend that you're mistaken, but I have lost interest in pursuing the discussion further with you.

bicker
05-17-2005, 05:23 PM
What if my only request is "room ready."That's a great point, and could be a more significant medical-need issue, if you're traveling with someone who has one of several medical conditions.

bicker
05-17-2005, 05:30 PM
When Doc's original thread kicked off this topic there were numerous sympathetic posts about how his situation was awful and should not happen to a home resort owner who books at 11 months. It's funny how quickly opinions change to the old "DCV knows best montra" :rolleyes: I think it is a mistake to translate compassion into agreement, especially with respect to any specific remedial change. AFAIC, it is a "darned shame" if someone who booked 11 months prior doesn't get their preference, but that's the extent of it, without lots of additional, validated information presented. I would find any alternative unacceptable without definitive proof that the alternative would cause no negative consequences for other members, unless those consequences were fully detailed so we could weigh whether those consequences are more grave than the unfortunate situation the alternative was trying to address.

bicker
05-17-2005, 05:32 PM
First-Disney not sticking to a policy..we clearly have examples of BWV not using room ready, even though that is what Disney "officially" says they are using..you are asking for headaches to claim one thing and deliver another.
Second-unreasonable member expectations and disneys willingness to acquiesce to these people.How much do you want to bet that the First is often caused by the Second? :Pinkbounc

TCPluto
05-17-2005, 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by childsplay
First-Disney not sticking to a policy..we clearly have examples of BWV not using room ready, even though that is what Disney "officially" says they are using..you are asking for headaches to claim one thing and deliver another.
Second-unreasonable member expectations and disneys willingness to acquiesce to these people.


How much do you want to bet that the First is often caused by the Second? :Pinkbounc


BINGO!! We have a whinner!! I mean winner!! (Who spoke of the whinners..)

CarolMN
05-17-2005, 07:49 PM
...(snip)....First, all resorts need to use the Room Ready system and adhere to the basic principles with out exception. When a guest arrives the CM checking guests in offers said guest a choice of the rooms available at that time. That is all the rooms shown as available anyway. Giving guests the idea that they are picking a room will satisfy many more people IMO. No requests should be taken when a reservation is made unless medical in nature such as NS or HA, period. This "early bird gets the worm" paranoia is just that, paranoia. The only rooms a guests can get is what is available at the moment of check in. If they want to chance it and come back later and see what is available that is there choice. There should be no requesting anyhting and getting it later. Really luck would dictate what room you get. Later arrivers might get that just cleaned room with the perfect location for them. Second, no exceptions should evr be made to the policies. If we all know the rules there woulkd be less to question. Lying and being given the run around is not good business. This , I suspect has led to many unhappy guests. Just explain the policies of room ready and try to help the guests. Is this system perfect, no, but what is. At least we would all know what to expect. I for one would welcome any room after traveling to get to WDW. Thanks for taking the time to post. Your ideas are interesting and food for thought. This is purely my 2 cents and the way I'd run things.

DAVESo let's say when I check in there are no clean rooms available. This is not uncommon at the BWV (and probably just as common at the other small DVC resorts). The BWV is often filled to (or very near) capacity. Then what? Do I get to pick from any room that will be available later (how is that fair) or do I have to keep coming back? If I have to come back, there are going to be long lines at the front desk and lots and lots of unhappy people to say nothing of the crabby CMs. I don't think you will be running things very long, LOL.

Now if I were the Supreme Leader, I'd just ban the internet. Ta Daaaa! Problem solved. (You can't be doing magic if everyone knows how all the tricks are done)! :teeth:

Seriously, this is a very complex subject. It is not simple, much as we'd all like it to be. I've read all the posts more than once and from what I can tell, we can't even agree what the issue is - :)

Best wishes -

Dean
05-17-2005, 08:20 PM
Interesting thoughts, but I think you're a little off-base in your reasoning. The only time that Disney profits on a cash reservation is when a member has used his/her points to trade-out of the 7 DVC resorts. Disney converts those points to cash rooms which are rented to the general public, and pockets the proceeds.

Any other time, proceeds from cash bookings are returned to members. It's listed in the annual budget as "breakage" income.

The primary reason for the higher point weekends is to balance demand. If the point schedule was flat, weekends would be booked solid rather quickly by members within driving distance of WDW who want to stay over a long weekend. Many seem to think that the weekends currently do cost too much in comparison to the weekdays, but that's a debate for another thread. ;)Neither of these situations benefit Disney directly. The proceeds from traded points (DCL, etc) and from breakage, go back to the members to offset fees. Disney does get a percentage for the management and if they rent any points they own, they would get the full profit.

TCPluto, the system has never been hard and fast and never been in writing other than requests are not guaranteed. And it keeps changing so no reason not to try to get it to change for the better of the majority and for the situation that creates cheaper maintenance. But I'd agree that many people would like to selfishly change DVC just for their situations, i.e. occupancy overages and the sleep 6 in a 1 BR configuration discussion.

Well said.

While not possible to make everyone happy every time/all the time, I think they have settled in to a system that offers the most satisfaction for the highest number of guests.I don't believe that's true. I think the current system is one that is easiest for DVC to administer in the short term and it will be costly in terms of satisfaction numbers and sales in the long run.

you'd never know if the reward was potentailly greater because you never even gave it a chance.

Im glad history is not made up of people who just said "thats the way it is, it works, so lets not waste any money, time or energy trying to make it any betterI don't know the FF system well enough to know, but most floating timeshares do not guarantee units or views unless you own that view. And even the ones that do could change tomorrow, the Embassy on Kauai did that just recently. But like DVC, many systems offer positives and negatives. DVC is one of the better systems. One thing you'll find is that DVC members tend to be different than regular timeshare owners. Heck, some don't even think they own a timeshare. Many are not particularly interested in hearing how other timeshares do things. And heaven forbid you suggest changing something they see as sacred like requests or minimum stays or home resort priorities as examples.

childsplay
05-17-2005, 08:21 PM
How much do you want to bet that the First is often caused by the Second?
Agreed. (in retrospect I probably should have rank ordered them)
Unreasonable members set in motion a chain of events which have a much greater chance of creating disappointment at the far end.
And let us not forget that "unreasonable" depending on how you choose to define it is what lead to the switch from preassigned rooms to room ready. Because I'm fairly confident that room ready didn't spring from the a ground swell of cheery chrous like the Who's around the tree in Whoville. Rather it came from people at the front desk saying things like "You mean you don't have one clean studio in the whole place?!? It's 1:00 in the afternoon!! What has the cleaning crew been doing for the last 6 hours?!? Management doesn't have to witness too many episodes like that in the lobby before "room ready" starts sounding pretty good.

sjdisneywedding
05-17-2005, 08:22 PM
Crisi,

. There should be no requesting anyhting and getting it later. Really luck would dictate what room you get. Later arrivers might get that just cleaned room with the perfect location for them.
DAVE

I am having trouble understanding your post fully. Is the above part of what you are recommending?

I just dont see how luck should determine how one gets a room. At some point a late comer might get their perfect room, but as it gets later and later the chance of them getting any request dramatically decreases until its probably just about nil.

it really is sort of surprising to me that there are so many people who are against knowing ahead of time exactly what type of requests they will have met for their vacation.

Dean
05-17-2005, 08:39 PM
Exactly. It's not a question: The timeshare is designed to withstand a very specific level of vacancy. There is no way to change that level of vacancy without violating the master deed.Maybe we're thinking the same thing. The planned occupancy is 100% year round on sold out resorts. But 100% isn't really 100%, it's more like 96%. And DVC doesn't care if rooms go empty, the rooms are paid for ahead of time. They do care if rooms go empty that have been designated for cash for breakage or cash equivalent trades. They'd be just as happy if people lost part of their points. As a matter of fact, it's my opinion that DVC actually built in a certain expectation of a certain percentage of lost points into their original plans.

It is my opinion that occupancy levels can be maintained and guarantee NS for MOST, if not all, members. Going all NS would fix this issue, IMO, it's inevitable it will happen for all Disney resorts, just a matter of time.

Room ready would work fine if they just put an effort into doing it, thus far I haven't seen evidence that they do, at least not consistently. Crisi slightly misquoted me, I know she didn't mean too. I'll say again that the ADA doesn't necessarily apply to timeshare the way it does to hotels or restaurants. It's more under the codes that apply to condo's for most timeshares. How this applies to DVC is in question since they are run more like hotels. But don't expect to show up, quote the ADA and get what you want.

Dean
05-17-2005, 08:46 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post. I can't agree here with your ranking system. Someone staying on cash is every bit as entitled to a good room as a DVC Member. Dave, why would a cash member be treated as an equal to an owner at a timeshare? I don't know of any timeshare in the world where that is truly the case though some are better than others. At most, guests of an owner are treated as a owner in most ways, many times in all ways. Cash renters from the resort are usually given second fiddle to owners at that resort and many times after internal exchangers as well, as it should be, IMO. There should be a reason to own to get the full benefits.

How much do you want to bet that the First is often caused by the Second? :PinkbouncNo doubt this has been true in the past. Now there's no way to know because they essentially don't put any effort into the requests, at least not consistently. I just don't see not trying as a reasonable option, and that's where we are now, IMO.

crisi
05-17-2005, 11:20 PM
Dave

Thanks for taking the time to post. I can't agree here with your ranking system. Someone staying on cash is every bit as entitled to a good room as a DVC Member.

It isn't a system. Its a brainstormed list of all the different requests and people making those requests a room requester might get. I put them in no order other than the order I thought them up in.

As I've said, I have some opinions on the matter, but many of them are situational. I'm not sure a cash guest should be treated differently (though part of me does agree with Dean - part of me doesn't), its just a possible criteria for use.

OneMoreTry
05-17-2005, 11:46 PM
Crisi,
My intention was that location would be divided according to what DVC identifies as commonly requested/popular sites. I'm sure that any assigner could tell you quickly what those are for any resort. So it might include "close to Hospitality House." Or instead of that it might be "water view", "Epcot view", "close to elevator", "fairway view" or "close to any bus stop." I think 3 or 4 categories at each resort would account for most requests and then the rest would be lumped under "no location request." At Boardwalk such a system is in place. It just so happens that one "request" requires less points.

:earsboy: :earsboy:

::yes:: There is no doubt in my mind that assigning priority according to time of booking is the fairest. Cash customers, too (although I doubt most of them would book real early and have many requests). I think the only person who might provide a decent argument to the contrary would be Nietzsche and he's dead.

:sad2: Room ready is completely unfair. You might convince me to grudgingly accept first-come-first served. That is more fair than room ready. Then I could plan to arrive at 9 am with everyone else and get on the list.

Room ready means that some lucky duck arriving at 936 am may get the room I wanted that wasn't ready when I arrived at 913. That stinks.

:sad2: The current system stinks because I don't know the rules. I get there at 9 and nothing is "room ready" (at BWV) and have to wait until 4 for what I'm told is the room I was "assigned."

::yes:: It's nice to agree with some people for once.

dianeschlicht
05-18-2005, 07:01 AM
Crisi,
My intention was that location would be divided according to what DVC identifies as commonly requested/popular sites. I'm sure that any assigner could tell you quickly what those are for any resort. So it might include "close to Hospitality House." Or instead of that it might be "water view", "Epcot view", "close to elevator", "fairway view" or "close to any bus stop." I think 3 or 4 categories at each resort would account for most requests and then the rest would be lumped under "no location request." At Boardwalk such a system is in place. It just so happens that one "request" requires less points.

:earsboy: :earsboy:

::yes:: There is no doubt in my mind that assigning priority according to time of booking is the fairest. Cash customers, too (although I doubt most of them would book real early and have many requests). I think the only person who might provide a decent argument to the contrary would be Nietzsche and he's dead.

:sad2: Room ready is completely unfair. You might convince me to grudgingly accept first-come-first served. That is more fair than room ready. Then I could plan to arrive at 9 am with everyone else and get on the list.

Room ready means that some lucky duck arriving at 936 am may get the room I wanted that wasn't ready when I arrived at 913. That stinks.

:sad2: The current system stinks because I don't know the rules. I get there at 9 and nothing is "room ready" (at BWV) and have to wait until 4 for what I'm told is the room I was "assigned."

::yes:: It's nice to agree with some people for once.
Very good concise description of what the problem is. Unfortunately our 9 pages of rehtoric about how we feel about it probably isn't going to change the way it's done. What we should probably be doing is trying to figure out how we deal with it.

BTW, I agree with Dean on this one...Owners SHOULD have priority over renters and cash customers. It is OUR timeshare, after all.

bicker
05-18-2005, 07:44 AM
Now if I were the Supreme Leader, I'd just ban the internet. Ta Daaaa! Problem solved. (You can't be doing magic if everyone knows how all the tricks are done)! :teeth: However, that's really part of the issue. It's not only impossible to "do magic" in the Internet Age (Disney found that out about seven or eight years ago), but it means that a company is actually punished for going the extra mile for any one customer (because word gets around, and many customers expect that every extra mile that has ever been "gone" for any other customer, will be "gone" for them).

Dave, why would a cash member be treated as an equal to an owner at a timeshare?Let me ask what I think is a related question: Why is Disney exercising the ROFR so much these days? Before you say that it is to prop-up the price they can get for SSR, think about where folks are reporting encountering the ROFR issue.... BWV most often, yes? Sure smells to me that Disney is exercising is right to buy-back a significant number of points in BWV to use as part of their rental inventory, because the economy is getting better and people can afford it, and people are willing to pay a premium for the extra space and location combined. Now that's just a guess, but if true, it sure makes sense that Disney also exercise its right to provide its cash guests as much priority as they offer their points guests. I wouldn't pay $540 per night for my room in January, but gosh if I was paying that much, I would be livid if I found out that I got the crappiest room in the place.

Owners SHOULD have priority over renters and cash customers.Disney is an owner, and as an owner I believe they have legal right to assert owner-level privilege on behalf of their cash customers.

fishermouse
05-18-2005, 08:27 AM
Your analogy is not EXACTLY true. We reserved AKL Savanna view, non-smoking for cash a couple years ago. Our flight got delayed, and we got in very late. The only room available was a HA. We took it, and it was fine, but definitely a dissapointment.
I must be one of the LUCKY people since I have always gotten what I asked for. Even when I make no request (other than non-smoking) I've always gotten good rooms. It's nice to walk out on the balcony the first time and get a veiw you've never seen before.
Hope they gave you a refund on the svanna view, if I remember correctly you paid extra for it....

I've neverbeen given a HA room but it sounds like the only difference is you get a large shower (could be fun).. question is in a one or two bedroom do you still get the whirlpool in the master bath? what are the other differences.
Maybe I should ask this in another subject thread.

dianeschlicht
05-18-2005, 08:52 AM
Let me ask what I think is a related question: Why is Disney exercising the ROFR so much these days? Before you say that it is to prop-up the price they can get for SSR, think about where folks are reporting encountering the ROFR issue.... BWV most often, yes? Sure smells to me that Disney is exercising is right to buy-back a significant number of points in BWV to use as part of their rental inventory, because the economy is getting better and people can afford it, and people are willing to pay a premium for the extra space and location combined. Now that's just a guess, but if true, it sure makes sense that Disney also exercise its right to provide its cash guests as much priority as they offer their points guests. I wouldn't pay $540 per night for my room in January, but gosh if I was paying that much, I would be livid if I found out that I got the crappiest room in the place.
Well, I paid a heck of a lot more than $540 bucks and I would be livid to always get the leftovers just because I can't check in until late!

bicker
05-18-2005, 09:38 AM
I wouldn't pay $540 per night for my room in January, but gosh if I was paying that much, I would be livid if I found out that I got the crappiest room in the place. Well, I paid a heck of a lot more than $540 bucks per night?

And just to clarify, what I mean is that I would be livid if I found out that I was predestined to get the crappiest room in the place. If I happened to get the crappiest room, due to the luck of the draw, or because I got there last, or the way the room assigner fit things together based on preferences resulted in me getting that room, then I wouldn't be livid.

sjdisneywedding
05-18-2005, 09:56 AM
per night?

And just to clarify, what I mean is that I would be livid if I found out that I was predestined to get the crappiest room in the place. If I happened to get the crappiest room, due to the luck of the draw, or because I got there last, or the way the room assigner fit things together based on preferences resulted in me getting that room, then I wouldn't be livid.


just because you dont get to get guarenteed requests doesnt mean you get the crappiest room. The selling point of a time of booking system to these potential future members is that IF you become a member you can get your requests GUARENTEED based on booking time. So no luck of the draw involved, who couldnt understand that?

dianeschlicht
05-18-2005, 10:00 AM
just because you dont get to get guarenteed requests doesnt mean you get the crappiest room. The selling point of a time of booking system to these potential future members is that IF you become a member you can get your requests GUARENTEED based on booking time. So no luck of the draw involved, who couldnt understand that?
Here here! ::yes::

bicker
05-18-2005, 12:34 PM
Here here! ::yes::I understand your point about predestination being perhaps too strong of a characterization. What I meant was that folks paying $540 per night would be more likely to experience dissatisfaction if they were at the bottom of a priority list for rooms. It's not a hard-and-fast criterion for giving those folks for priority, but it is a very serious consideration for a business like Disney that hopes to get these folks to pay $540 per night next year, too. Again, the point is that Disney is an owner, and as an owner I believe they have legal right to assert owner-level privilege on behalf of their cash customers.

dianeschlicht
05-18-2005, 12:45 PM
LOL! No offense intended, but maybe I shouldn't be discussing things with someone called "bicker"! :rotfl: Sorry, your screen name just struck me funny....carry on.

Dean
05-18-2005, 08:06 PM
However, that's really part of the issue. It's not only impossible to "do magic" in the Internet Age (Disney found that out about seven or eight years ago), but it means that a company is actually punished for going the extra mile for any one customer (because word gets around, and many customers expect that every extra mile that has ever been "gone" for any other customer, will be "gone" for them).

Let me ask what I think is a related question: Why is Disney exercising the ROFR so much these days? Before you say that it is to prop-up the price they can get for SSR, think about where folks are reporting encountering the ROFR issue.... BWV most often, yes? Sure smells to me that Disney is exercising is right to buy-back a significant number of points in BWV to use as part of their rental inventory, because the economy is getting better and people can afford it, and people are willing to pay a premium for the extra space and location combined. Now that's just a guess, but if true, it sure makes sense that Disney also exercise its right to provide its cash guests as much priority as they offer their points guests. I wouldn't pay $540 per night for my room in January, but gosh if I was paying that much, I would be livid if I found out that I got the crappiest room in the place.

Disney is an owner, and as an owner I believe they have legal right to assert owner-level privilege on behalf of their cash customers.Dave, Disney is not the owner at the sold out resorts. They will be again, but they are not now. The members could even get together and vote Disney out if they truly wanted.

As for ROFR, I don't think Disney makes a dime on it, I suspect it actually costs them money if you look at direct costs only. Because of the personnel and marketing issues, I'd think a spread of $20 min would be needed just to break even. And since any cash rooms have to go through CRO, which takes a cut that doesn't go to DVD, all rooms are not rented out AND DVD is actually competing with DVC (members trades and breakage) as well as other Disney rooms; no way they'll make money on the cash rooms rentals. That's esp true since DVC purposefully shies away from the highest demand times for rentals.

bicker
05-18-2005, 08:11 PM
Dave, Disney is not the owner at the sold out resorts.They retain 4% ownership of the sold-out resorts, and are apparently acquiring a greater interest in BWV, via ROFR.

Dean
05-18-2005, 08:21 PM
I understand your point about predestination being perhaps too strong of a characterization. What I meant was that folks paying $540 per night would be more likely to experience dissatisfaction if they were at the bottom of a priority list for rooms. It's not a hard-and-fast criterion for giving those folks for priority, but it is a very serious consideration for a business like Disney that hopes to get these folks to pay $540 per night next year, too. Again, the point is that Disney is an owner, and as an owner I believe they have legal right to assert owner-level privilege on behalf of their cash customers.It's true they might vote with their feet. Or they might just buy in because they would have more priority. If DVC is more (or less) interested in pleasing cash guests vs members, to heck with them, I'll move on. But right and wrong puts members at that resort at the head of the line, no matter what. I can trade in much of the year at a fraction of the cost of owning. I know I'll be lower on the ladder as an exchanger, just like at most any other timeshare on the planet. Last time I did it we got a standard view at BWV. Fortunately there are few truly bad rooms that one could predict, dumpster views maybe the exception. The reality is that most cash guests don't know that much about requests and would be happy anywhere. And they could easily have the ability to pay more for a better room. Using BWV as an example, you could charge more for preferred view and even more for BW view. That way a guest has a way of guaranteeing their room type, something that members have but only the last couple of years. And something they don't have at any other DVC resort except for VB Inn rooms.

DVC having the ability to rent out the rooms is of marginal service to members. It fuels the exchange programs other than II and BVTC but given the value (or lack of) it's hard to argue that's really a benefit. It reduces fees due to the breakage inventory, but the benefit are marginal and the dollars small. At most timeshares that rent out rooms, they allow the members to reserve then rent out through the company for a fee of course.

Dean
05-18-2005, 08:23 PM
They retain 4% ownership of the sold-out resorts, and are apparently acquiring a greater interest in BWV, via ROFR.The 4% is leeway, not to rent out. Don't kid yourself about what they own and why.

bicker
05-18-2005, 08:25 PM
Back at you. They're renting rooms in DVC properties. They're allowed to do it in the master deed and they're doing it.

Dean
05-18-2005, 08:40 PM
Back at you. They're renting rooms in DVC properties. They're allowed to do it in the master deed and they're doing it.There's no question room are being rented and I'm sure some by DVD for DVD. But most rentals are actually member inventory in one way or another. Either breakage inventory or used to produce cash to pay for exchange options. BTW, are you the same person talked about on the Cruise Critic Board?

bicker
05-18-2005, 08:58 PM
C'mon Dean... you really don't remember me? I'm really hurt! We joined the DIS at the same time -- eh?

Dean
05-18-2005, 09:17 PM
C'mon Dean... you really don't remember me? I'm really hurt! We joined the DIS at the same time -- eh?I do remember, was just wondering if you were the same one they were talking about over at Cruise Critic. I think I joined in 1996 or 1997 or so, was on the Prodigy list for a few years before that.

bicker
05-19-2005, 06:57 AM
There's only one bicker! :D

waltfan1957
08-14-2006, 03:56 PM
I need to get my hands on a DVC contract which for some reason seems a little difficult. Sorry if I don't have all the facts but I am trying to get a copy of one without signing up for DVC until I am more informed.

I am not doubting you are right but just wondering why if we live in Canada that our Canadian Tour Operators that publish annual brochures show DVC properties there to book? I wonder where they get their allottment from?

sorry if i get this wrong but under your name it says dvc member okw resort i am confused are you or arnt you a member?

Boston5602
08-14-2006, 08:20 PM
sorry if i get this wrong but under your name it says dvc member okw resort i am confused are you or arnt you a member?


The quote you are referring to was posted May 16 ,2005 and the name/signature is loaded on from today when you click open the post.

Thats 15 months , they probably bought DVC since then.

Same as this will be like my 420 post but of course next time I post and it will be 421 and this post will list 421 posts even though this post is number 420

I'm starting to cinfuse myself <G>


:sunny: