Taking My Turn At Bat

[DVCJman]

"attention scorekeepers, now pinch-hitting for the pitcher....."

I have read many different posts lately about point increases with the Disney Collection, post about buying into DVC or not, valet parking, DVC II, amoung a few things. Well, I have come here to say with positive tone that when I bought into DVC, those items based upon great flexibility were not a selling point. The selling point to me was to be included into a timeshare program to "get a handle" on constant rising cost of accomodations at WDW.

Having made my first trip to WDW as an adult in 1990 and seeing the rising costs for accomdations over the next few years, I made a well planned decision to buy into DVC in 1998. I bought property through DVC at the site where I planned to stay the most through 2042. Yes, I have made moves and stayed at this time four of the DVC sites. But that was done within the assigned 7-month window of reservation period with planning on my part.

I have honestly felt that with my investment of monies into DVC at this time I have recouped most of my initial cost. I am one of the ones who is happy with DVC and what it can do for me. I have never come into DVC with markers held in my pocket because this was said to me in the beginning. I know that certain "rights" we have or "expectations" can be changed at anytime with notice. I can't say that we will always be allowed to use points for a cruise, or for a room at one of the deluxe hotels, or even the ability to continue to pool hop? I don't know.

What I do know that until 2042, I have a means to take a yearly vacation to my home resort or, if lucky, to several other resorts in the DVC system. For me, DVC with its initial costs, its yearly maintenance fees, its rules and regulations, are working. And for me, that is fine. If it isn't working for someone else, I am sorry.

"now returning to the bench."

[Luv2Dream]

*****Amen......*******

[jennybobenny]

I agree. For me, the disappointment with the point cost for non-DVC WDW resorts happened a few years ago. I actually can't remember if it was before or after we bought into DVC but I knew as soon as I saw the amount of points required to stay at the Grand Floridian that it wouldn't be happening for us. Why would I want to spend *more* points than it takes for a DVC studio on a room with less amenities? We're the type to go with standard over preferred views in order to save a few points, so staying at a non-DVC resort (on points) was never an option for us.

Having said that, the point structure for non-DVC WDW resorts was not, and will never be, a deal breaker for us. Like I said, I can't even remember if I first discovered the point difference *before* or after we bought. I just know it had no bearing whatsoever on how we felt about DVC. Everyone on this board has always said to prospective buyers that DVC points are best used at DVC resorts. That still holds true.

From the very beginning I thought DVC used the term 'flexibility' very loosely. Sure it's flexible - if you want to use double the amount of points. Worst case scenario if we wanted to take a vacation at a specific time of year and every DVC resort was jam packed - we'd bank the points and pay cash to stay at a WDW resort. How's that for flexible? ;)

[okwmember92]

I agree, we have been members since 1992. The biggest selling point was our vacation for 50 years was going to be paid for in 7 years. We had already stayed at Contemporary, GF, using our cash, and knew every year price increase. We were camping at FW with inlaws when we drove by DVC and stopped inquisitive my DH & I put on hard hats and toured the first building. We did not buy then but did within 5 months, NO REGRETS!!! We have stayed
at GF once with points and gone on DCL and going again in 02, using our points. Gone to VB
numerous times on points and cash.

Our only regret is not having more points.:rolleyes:

Well, I added my two cents worth.

Can't wait until Sept 29 going to stay at VWL for 3 nights just hubby and I ;) Was able to make reservations just 2 days ago, very much within the 7months mark.

[WebmasterDoc]

Nice thread!!

It also depends on how you choose to define "flexibility".

To me the flexibility of the DVC program (compared to other timeshares) is that we can make our reservations whenever we choose- subject to availability. We are NOT limited to the same week each year or the same number of days each year.

We are NOT limited to a specific resort within the DVC system. We have the options of staying at any of the DVC resorts subjext to reservation priorities and availability.

The non-DVC options (DC, CC, II, DCL, AC) are also great examples of the "flexibility" of the program. However, these are nothing more than another option which we can choose to utilize or ignore.

The "costs" of these options seems to be the source of great recent irritation, but the fact remians that these options are merely features which can be changed or deleted, just like the ever changing discounts offered over time to DVC members.

I understand the reason for the outcry from those who have been directly affected by the dates which have been increased, but find it curious that there has been no praise brought forth for the dates which have been decreased. Surely, that change deserves some positive comment?

I will continue to recommend DVC to anyone who asks about it and the first feature of the program which I will mention is the flexibility afforded by DVC. It is still at least the same value as before and may be even better with the overall changes made in the DC point structure.

Enjoy!

[Eeyore2U]

I don't even remember the non DVC resorts being discussed. My DW has always stated that the non DVC resorts were not cost effective. (it's the bean counter in her) We bought DVC because we love WDW and staying on site. DVC is the most cost effective way to do that. I just wish we would have bought the first time we thought about it at BWV so all our points could be there instead of split betweem BWV and VWL.

I'm sure we will use our points at other options than DVC resorts. We are taking a 4 day cruise on Sept 30th with them. But the MAIN and only reason we bought was to stay in our home resort.

:earsboy: :earsboy:

[Peggy Sue]

AMEN AND AMEN!

I agree with you all! We purchased in 1997 and have had no regrets..not even a single moment of hesitation after signing our first contract.

What sold us on DVC was indeed the FLEXIBILITY..just as Doc stated...this is the FLEXIBILITY to go when we WANT to go, not an assigned week that typical time shares come with. This program has been terrific, and we have shared some fantastic vacations with family members who otherwise would not have been able to vacation at WDW.

We didn't purchase DVC for the ability to stay at other WDW resorts. We never saw that as vauable anyway. the minute we saw the DVC resorts, we were spoiled and knew we could never go back to just A WDW hotel room. I can fully understand and appreciate why others enjoy doing this, however, it just isn't a issue for us.

We've stayed at 4 of the 5 DVC resorts. Enjoyed every minute. We've alsy exchanged a week of points for a week in Kauai via the II exchange feature. We felt we got excellent value out of this exchange.

If we all use the $10. per point rule that is talked about so often here, it never was a good value to use your points for WDW resorts, even before this latest change. Seems to me there was always a better discounted cash rate available that would have beat the points requirements. Same with some of the conceriege collection..there are better cash deals out there. However, that being said, the great thing about DVC is we have the option to do these things should we choose to with our points. That's just added flexibility in my opinion.

Thanks for starting a positive post. I was getting a bit depressed with all the negative vibes lately!

[loribell]

finally a positive post. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I agree the flexibility is in not being locked in to a specific time period, not moving around. That was already taking to many points, IMHO. I bought to stay at DVC resorts and thats where I plan to stay.

[TiggerFreak]

DVCJman,

Your post and others like it are why I visit these boards!

when our family took our first trip to the world 4 years ago, we stayed at WL.
All of us were "Disney'd" by the experience:D
At the time I too had a negative view of time shares and avoided the DVC reps like the plague!
On our 3rd trip I could not stay at WL because I started planning too late and could only get ressies for OKW;) The experience that we enjoyed with the staff at OKW and the quality of the entire operation let me look at DVC in a diferent light, so I decided to take the tour.

At the time (12-5-200) VWL had just opened uip for sales. Our DVC guide was very informative and helpful, never at any time did we feel any pressure to make an immediate decission. This treatment along with our love of the WL convinced us to join DVC before we left for home.

The opportunity to stay at properties other than DVC is a nice perk, but did not have a major part in our buying DVC. The ability to stay onsite at quality resorts for a fixed cost over the next 42 years was the major factor. If I had not been do gun shy of time shares on our first visit we may have bought earlier and saved quite a bit of money!

Thanks again to all of those positive people on the boards
:)

[Mary Ellen]

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

We bought into DVC for our Disney vacations. We knew that DC, along with the cruises on DCL and HAL were not something we would use points for. We felt we could do much better paying for them ourselves. However, if other members wanted the fexibility of using their points for them on non-Disney vacations - fine.

If someone is buying into DVC for the main reason of staying at non-DVC locations, IMHO they should rethink their plans, but that is their decision.

Our down payment was less than we would have paid staying in a moderate - and we were in a BWV preferred view 1-br. Given the time of year we go and the type of unit, our annual dues work out to $46-55 per night (without taking into consideration that part of our dues are tax-deductible). AND we don't pay that 11-12% room tax. Let's see, staying at BWV or trying to find something off site for that price, it's a no-brainer for us. Since we can now sell (should we suddenly lose our minds) for more than we paid, this has definitely been the right decision for us. However, for others in other circumstances and with other needs, a different decision could be better for them.

[prplcrzy]

Well said all, at last the voices of reason are coming through!

[NFalzon]

The Disneyland Hotel in Paris, June 1-8, 1997: 714 points
The Disneyland Hotel in Paris, June 1-8, 2001: 273 points

Any complaints? Any murmuring? hmmm... didn't think so.

And if it were to go back up to 714 in 2002 would that be DVC lying? Nah. Deceitful? Not one bit. Would it be sad? sure.

Would it swing back down again in swift collaboration with the ups and downs in the economics of the world?

Without question.

And does that change the extent to which our timeshare is located at one resort with an amazingly flexible network of 4-6 sister resorts?

NOT AT ALL.

NOT ONE BIT.
Nick

[DVCajun]

I am one of those DVCers who is actually emotionally attached to my home resort. I get all misty eyed when I hear those wonderful words "welcome home," and if I stay on-site anywhere else I feel that I have somehow missed part of the magic. That being said, my first choice will always be to stay at the beautiful BWV. Occasionally I make a last minute trip and have to stay somewhere else, but I haven't used points to do so yet-- it has never seemed a good investment of my points.

PamOKW pointed out on another thread that the selling price for DVC ownership has risen over 57% (or something like that) since it's inception. WOW. I know it has risen substantially since I joined three years ago. I am just so glad that I bought when I did (before BWV sold out!!!) and am now one of the happy "owners" of part of the Disney magic.... I have to admit that at the time a primary objective of mine was to obligate my DH to visit WDW at least once a year. A moot point, because he's now a Disneyaholic too. But looking back, it was one of the wisest investments I have ever made! I am not good at number crunching like some of our DVC family members, but it doesn't take a mathematical genius to figure out that if I'm paying for accommodations every year anyway I might as well be putting that money toward future vacations as well. Sure, it's expensive, but it's money that WILL be spent at WDW. This way I have an investment and assurance of future vacations with my children... and their children!

I literally just sat back and sighed with happiness at the thought of all the WDW trips that lie ahead for my family. And THAT is what it's all about for me!!!

[DownNeckBoy]

Flexibility is one of those terms that can, by its very nature, be viewed many different ways. So, let me join the camp that states that while we agree that there is flexibility, we don't find the options available to be worth the cost to us.

When I went down with my family to HH this past February, I fully expected that I would get a nice little vacation and return without a commitment to DVC. We were extremely impressed by the resort and by HH itself. The presentation was low key and we were very interested. When I awoke the next morning, I found that my lovely, level headed, attorney wife had spent three hours analyzing point costs and financing costs and I knew that we would be signing the papers later that day. One of the first things she had reviewed was the point costs outside of the DVC. They were (are) nice options, but just not worth the cost to us. So, we viewed them, with a laugh, as part of the flexibility of DVC, but not a deal maker or breaker for us.

We are going down on our first trip on points to our home resort, HH, next Sunday. I've already made my plans for next year and am very excited that I will be able to take my family down to HH and WDW over two weeks. This is something that I know we could not have afforded without DVC. After five years, we will be paid off and can look forward to many more vacations. That is why we joined DVC, as have many others. I hope to run into all of you over the years!



:jester:

[Richyams]

Flexibility is the number one reason I luv DVC and constantly recomend it to friends and family.

We usually always get the same size unit, but we vary the times we go every year. We have only used points outside our home resort three times, once for a cruise, once for two nights at the Plaza and once for two nights at BWV. In nine years, less than 10% of our points were spent outside of OKW.....but we bought to stay at OKW.

I never even really knew what the point cost for a GF, Poly or Contemporary stay was until I saw people quoting here that a 2 bdr at OKW was the same as a standard room at one of these places. I never had any desire to use any of those hotels.

We got exactly what we paid for and I have never been more satisfied with a purchase in my life......except for the quarter I put in a Trivia Wiz machine where I met my wife......now had that been $0.50 the way they are today..........

[DVCajun]

I'd like to add, while we're talking about flexibility, that we can trade weeks through II or TUG Free Exchange, or any other similar group. That will be how I use my points to travel elsewhere. WDW accommodations are extremely sought after in those forums. I was looking over the TUG Free Exchange website (whose dues are only $15 a year btw) and saw that BWV and OKW were listed as two of the ten most sought after resorts in the world on that forum. Gives us a little trading advantage, I'd say!! Should be interesting.

However, I didn't join DVC based on the ability to travel elsewhere. I think that will end up being an unforseen advantage, but.... as was said by another member, "that's just gravy."

IT'S ALL GOOD....!!! :D

[chris1gill]

I couldn't agree more with DVCjman!!! We joined DVC for ONE reason.. and one reason only!! To vacation at the Boardwalk Villa's for the next 42 years... Everything else was gravy... I should say that when we bought, the only accomodations we wanted to stay in are 1 bedroom villa's... so comparing the cost out for the next 42 years in a 1 bedroom villa cash vs. points, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure DVC was a lot less expensive!

Everything else that DVC offers, staying at other DVC resorts, the DC, pool hopping, Every single part of it can go away given a moments notice... We've thoroughly enjoyed our BW & OKW vacations & we believe DVC was STILL the very best investment we could make in regards to our vacationing habits!!

[baileybrad]

I tagged along with my brother and sister-in-law way back in '93 when they toured what was then the "Disney Vacation Club" and is now named OKW. I suppose because there was no BW/HH/VB/VWL that mean old Disney went and changed the rules on everybody...the nerve of them to allow folks the opportunity to stay at wonderfully themed future resorts that had not even been finalized yet.

The most interesting thing that I recall regarding the recent uproar on some folks part, most interestingly by primarily non-members, was clearly mentioned way back in '93. The guide specifically mentioned the ability to stay at other Disney resorts on points. In the next breath she said that this is not a good use of points and that for the value that you receive in accomodations at the DVC and the fact that future stays at the "hotels" are not inflation protected. So I guess some of those guides do tell the truth and know their stuff. She still works there by the way. My brother has reminded me of the lack of value in using points at non-DVC Disney resorts by saying remember what Patti said. I suppose in some way this also clears the DVC of being deceitful to those that planned on using the Disney Collections as a consistent fallback position (Sorry DVCDAVE) because of the rise in costs after negotiating with the "other side of Disney". You can't blame DVC for something that they do not control. The flexibility of the DVC reservation system is wonderful.

[baileybrad]

bump

[Dean]

I've repeatedly voiced my agreement elsewhere.

[dianeschlicht]

I say amen to the original post too.:bounce:

[BillM]

WOW. I agree with all the posts above. Kudos to Doc. I wish I had said that. No one ever lied to me and I sure don't feel like I have been cheated. I knew that we planned to stay at our home...OKW, although we have stayed at BW, HH and my DD is going to VB and another DD went on the cruise.
Flexibility....I think it's great. I wish I had more points.

[sgtpet]

Good for all of you.

I think the sales literature was misleading to some degree.

[prplcrzy]

Then don't buy!

[JonHM]

As I said on another thread, I think that you made a very wise decision not to buy at this time, as it just doesn't seem like DVC fits your vacation needs. I think that we are all happy that you made a fully informed decision, and are glad that you did not buy in and *then* discover that DVC was not right for you.

I am sorry at your obvious disappointment that DVC was not what you initially thought that it was, but marketing materials are just that: meant to bring people in to get all of the facts so they can make a fully informed decision. I myself was initially disappointed that park tickets were not part of the deal, as the initial marketing materials had made me hope, but once we had all of the facts before us and we analyzed what exactly DVC *was*, it turned out that it was just the right thing for us. (Even without the park tickets... :) )

[sgtpet]

JohnHM I have no problems with you. I have appreciated the banter. But enough already, this topic is been discussed over and over again. Look on other boards and you will see that I too enjoy Disney and WDW.



Let's all move on.

[Joe T.]

Our interpretation of flexibility is the fact that we can make a reservation 11 months in advance for as little as one night, and we can change that for the next 10 months at no cost. Try that at another TS. For various reasons, we bought a TS two years before DVC, and aother two years after. It is a real hassle changing reservations. We hear that "reservations for less than a full week cannot be made until 60 or 90 from the date, and at least two days must be booked. Yes, split weeks can be done at the same home resort - 4 days and 3 days.
Change the reservation? Sure, the fee will be X."

Choice may be what some folks are concerned about. Compare the massive II and RCI catalog with the DVC choices, and DVC pales in comparison in numbers. But, skim the II and RCI catalogs, and you will see that a large percentage of their posting are little more than strip motels on a lake or beach. All the features that we accept as normal are "nearby." Personally, I like the fact that DVC screens out the dogs. Select any of the DVC offerings, and you know that you will have quality accommodtions.

[sumessefui]

We purchased in 96, sight unseen, to stay at OKW. We had uaually stated at the Poly and GF. After our first stay at OKW I knew I would never want to stay in a regular WDW resort again. I really do not even remember our guide mentioning the ability to stay elsewhere.
I do remember in the literature we got, that it mentioned some packages, but said not to buy based on that, because they could be changed or taken away.
At my age, I doubt that I'll see the last 15 to 20 years of the DVC, but I feel I have already got my money's worth.

[lodgelady]

WELL SAID!! :earsgirl: :earsboy:

[raidermatt]

Good points all, and I agree. While I would love to be able to book vacations everywhere I want for small numbers of points, I know that it is probably not going to work that way, and is definitely not guaranteed.

What I do know is that I can book at the current resorts, and stay there for a smaller cost than I would have had to pay otherwise. I can stay for one night, or 14. I can go every year, or every other year.

This is what we wanted when we signed, and this is what we got.

:D

[DVCJman]

I didn't mean to start a firestorm of comments, I just wanted to state my feelings on the issue. I was thinking that it was time for another voice to be heard. Thanks for the replies....